Comments on: Guatemala: First, volcanic eruption; then, devastating tropical storm http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sun, 26 May 2013 04:58:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: The Morgan http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-801026 The Morgan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-801026 This is terrifying. Does anyone know how quickly these things form? (I mean the disaster 'hole appears and things fall in' part, not the gradual subsurface erosion part.) Is there a rumbling and a slow slide, or does the ground just suddenly drop away? This is terrifying. Does anyone know how quickly these things form? (I mean the disaster ‘hole appears and things fall in’ part, not the gradual subsurface erosion part.) Is there a rumbling and a slow slide, or does the ground just suddenly drop away?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-802308 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-802308 Looks like one of the holes from one of the Langoliers... Looks like one of the holes from one of the Langoliers…

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-801031 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-801031 I wonder what it looks like down one of these sinkholes. I wonder what it looks like down one of these sinkholes.

]]> By: step http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-801034 step Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-801034 I just did a really rough translation of the Prensa Libre article. Sorry about the awkward syntax. A Collapsed Building Becomes A Sinkhole in Zone 2 By Carolina Gamazo A three-story building that was used as a tailor-shop collapsed tonight and produced an hundimiento (sinkhole) at sixth street and eleventh avenue in the New City neighborhood, zone 2. The collapse was caused by a break in the sewage pipes, which formed a hole that is approximately 20 meters deep and 15 meters in diameter, which then caused the building to sink. The hundimiento is similar to the one that was produced three years ago in the San Antonio neighborhood in zone 6. According to police reports, the building was found empty and no one was injured in the collapse. Following emergency protocols, people living in nearby buildings were evacuated and moved to shelters. "We have created a circle of 150 meters around the hundimiento where neither people nor vehicles can pass, and those that live in the houses within this circle have been moved because of the established international protocol, which says that there should be 200 meters of space (around a sinkhole)" explained Montejo. I just did a really rough translation of the Prensa Libre article. Sorry about the awkward syntax.

A Collapsed Building Becomes A Sinkhole in Zone 2
By Carolina Gamazo

A three-story building that was used as a tailor-shop collapsed tonight and produced an hundimiento (sinkhole) at sixth street and eleventh avenue in the New City neighborhood, zone 2.

The collapse was caused by a break in the sewage pipes, which formed a hole that is approximately 20 meters deep and 15 meters in diameter, which then caused the building to sink.

The hundimiento is similar to the one that was produced three years ago in the San Antonio neighborhood in zone 6.

According to police reports, the building was found empty and no one was injured in the collapse.

Following emergency protocols, people living in nearby buildings were evacuated and moved to shelters.

“We have created a circle of 150 meters around the hundimiento where neither people nor vehicles can pass, and those that live in the houses within this circle have been moved because of the established international protocol, which says that there should be 200 meters of space (around a sinkhole)” explained Montejo.

]]> By: venomous http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-800779 venomous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-800779 Completely different one. The weird thing, is that they are aligned (and actually not that far from eachother), which means they're part of the same faulty sewer system... Completely different one. The weird thing, is that they are aligned (and actually not that far from eachother), which means they’re part of the same faulty sewer system…

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-801047 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-801047 That's not a sinkhole, that was clearly created by Superman, diving underground on the way to Lex Luthor's secret HQ. That’s not a sinkhole, that was clearly created by Superman, diving underground on the way to Lex Luthor’s secret HQ.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-800795 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-800795 this is real, My identica/twitter coverage is here http://identi.ca/tag/agujeroz2 and the tag #agujeroz2 is related, the Major of Guatemala City must styudy this situation. you steal my GOOGLE MAPS link http://rod.gs/MXb this is real, My identica/twitter coverage is here http://identi.ca/tag/agujeroz2 and the tag #agujeroz2 is related, the Major of Guatemala City must styudy this situation.

you steal my GOOGLE MAPS link
http://rod.gs/MXb

]]> By: jaytkay http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-800796 jaytkay Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-800796 Well, at least I know what my nightmares will be about this week. Well, at least I know what my nightmares will be about this week.

]]> By: iCowboy http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-800797 iCowboy Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-800797 The mudslides are a huge problem in volcanic areas. Technically they're called lahars and are a mix of water and volcanic ash which come sliding down the mountain side. As they get bigger and denser they can pick up enormous objects and hurl them with tremendous forces; there's practically nothing that can stop them. And when the mud stops moving it quickly becomes like cement, entombing anything underneath. The 1980 eruption of Mt. St. Helens was associated with some immense lahars which picked up some HUGE rocks and carried them for miles - devastating everything downstream: http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Imgs/Jpg/MSH/Images/MSH80_boulder_left_by_lahar_muddy_river_09-16-80_med.jpg Mt. Rainier to the North of MSH is also known to produce colossal lahars which would head straight for Seattle if the mountain were to wake up. As for that sinkhole - wow. Any news what was on top of it? The mudslides are a huge problem in volcanic areas. Technically they’re called lahars and are a mix of water and volcanic ash which come sliding down the mountain side. As they get bigger and denser they can pick up enormous objects and hurl them with tremendous forces; there’s practically nothing that can stop them.

And when the mud stops moving it quickly becomes like cement, entombing anything underneath.

The 1980 eruption of Mt. St. Helens was associated with some immense lahars which picked up some HUGE rocks and carried them for miles – devastating everything downstream:

http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Imgs/Jpg/MSH/Images/MSH80_boulder_left_by_lahar_muddy_river_09-16-80_med.jpg

Mt. Rainier to the North of MSH is also known to produce colossal lahars which would head straight for Seattle if the mountain were to wake up.

As for that sinkhole – wow. Any news what was on top of it?

]]> By: hereitcomesagain http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-801822 hereitcomesagain Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-801822 Find similar incidents, several in US at "http://www.sewerhistory.org/grfx/misc/disaster.htm" Find similar incidents, several in US at “http://www.sewerhistory.org/grfx/misc/disaster.htm”

]]> By: awkward_amma http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-800805 awkward_amma Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-800805 that sinkhole is seriously one of the most terrifying real things i've ever seen. that sinkhole is seriously one of the most terrifying real things i’ve ever seen.

]]> By: ophmarketing http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-800806 ophmarketing Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-800806 We tried to tell them that building Guatemala on the Hellmouth was a bad idea, but did they listen? We tried to tell them that building Guatemala on the Hellmouth was a bad idea, but did they listen?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-801063 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-801063 Did anyone see the silver surfer ? Did anyone see the silver surfer ?

]]> By: willy http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-800809 willy Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-800809 Replying to comment #7: The photo of the 2007 sinkhole on the National Geographic News website isn't "Photoshopped or otherwise hoaxed" either. When I first opened this page, there were only 3 comments, the second of which is the link to the Flickr photo, which includes no identifying information. I spent some time in awe closely studying it, then googled 'Guatemala sinkhole' looking for more info, and found the 2007 photo. Unfortunately just then, I got a minor-emergency phone call and had to rush off without having time to compare the two photos, and posted that comment in haste. At that point there wasn't a 2:00 pm update on my unrefreshed BB tab, nor any mention of a sinkhole in your original post. Having had a chance now to look at the two photos again, obviously they're different; but at first glance, both of them being nearly perfectly circular, I thought they might be the same, and old news. Note to self: THINK, then post. THINK, THEN post! Replying to comment #7:

The photo of the 2007 sinkhole on the National Geographic News website isn’t “Photoshopped or otherwise hoaxed” either.

When I first opened this page, there were only 3 comments, the second of which is the link to the Flickr photo, which includes no identifying
information. I spent some time in awe closely studying it, then googled ‘Guatemala sinkhole’ looking for more info, and found the 2007 photo.

Unfortunately just then, I got a minor-emergency phone call and had to rush off without having time to compare the two photos, and posted that
comment in haste. At that point there wasn’t a 2:00 pm update on my unrefreshed BB tab, nor any mention of a sinkhole in your original post.

Having had a chance now to look at the two photos again, obviously they’re different; but at first glance, both of them being nearly perfectly
circular, I thought they might be the same, and old news.

Note to self: THINK, then post. THINK, THEN post!

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-801065 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-801065 for map lovers: 14.652086, -90.505854. another very deep one in Gautemala City 2-23-2007 (http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2007/02/23/image2509011g.jpg) for map lovers: 14.652086, -90.505854.
another very deep one in Gautemala City 2-23-2007 (http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2007/02/23/image2509011g.jpg)

]]> By: David Carroll http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-801067 David Carroll Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-801067 What's at the bottom you ask? You will find a blue police box surrounded by Homo-Reptilians. ;) What’s at the bottom you ask?

You will find a blue police box surrounded by Homo-Reptilians. ;)

]]> By: Ugly Canuck http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-801073 Ugly Canuck Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-801073 Aaah, good old human error. Or, good hole human error. Aaah, good old human error.
Or, good hole human error.

]]> By: Werehawk http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-801335 Werehawk Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-801335 Landslides are a longstanding problem in Guatemala. If there is one constant to travel in Guatemala during the rainy season is landslides blocking or undermining roads during the rainy season. Guatemala does have a problem with people building in places where anybody taking a sane look at local terrain would decide that to build their was downright idiotic. In the case of Zone 2 collapse it looks more like leaking sewer or maybe water main is the cause. BTW Magnum Finger the photo in the article you are linking to is from the 2007 sinkhole. But otherwise they've got their fact more or less right although I'd probably quibble on their rumors statement. They could have checked the Guatemalan news accounts. Three story building did collapse into sinkhole. Was apparently being used as clothes factory. A couple more Guatemalan news accounts. From Siglo Veintiuno -->http://www.sigloxxi.com/nacional.php?id=11925 different angle and consistent with Guatemala government overhead photo. From El Periodico http://www.elperiodico.com.gt/es/20100601/pais/154866/ includes a wider angled overhead photo and eyewitness account roughly translated below: Pablo Taracena 21 years old neighbor of the house that sank "Mama don't make the sign of a toilet because it didn't sink like vortex it sank at once. I was there I saw and felt it. I was watching MTV when I heard the power lines tensing I went to the window and saw how the light-posts were giving way being pulled by the cables one pulled by the other. Then I heard the slam of the collapse. Do you know how it feels? Have you ever been in a elevator that drops abruptly? The movement of the ground was exactly like that. And of course much stronger a drop, aloud noise and temblor and getting out of the house. Is it safe place? Nothing is safe, that hole is still collapsing. Landslides are a longstanding problem in Guatemala. If there is one constant to travel in
Guatemala during the rainy season is landslides blocking or undermining roads during the rainy season. Guatemala does have a problem with people building in places where anybody taking a sane look at local terrain would decide that to build their was downright idiotic. In the case of Zone 2 collapse it looks more like leaking sewer or maybe water main is the cause.

BTW Magnum Finger the photo in the article you are linking to is from the 2007 sinkhole. But otherwise they’ve got their fact more or less right although I’d probably quibble on their rumors statement. They could have checked the Guatemalan news accounts. Three story building did collapse into sinkhole. Was apparently being used as clothes factory.

A couple more Guatemalan news accounts.
From Siglo Veintiuno –>http://www.sigloxxi.com/nacional.php?id=11925 different angle and consistent with Guatemala government overhead photo.
From El Periodico http://www.elperiodico.com.gt/es/20100601/pais/154866/ includes a wider angled overhead photo and eyewitness account roughly translated below:

Pablo Taracena 21 years old neighbor of the house that sank “Mama don’t make the sign of a toilet because it didn’t sink like vortex it sank at once. I was there I saw and felt it. I was watching MTV when I heard the power lines tensing I went to the window and saw how the light-posts were giving way being pulled by the cables one pulled by the other. Then I heard the slam of the collapse. Do you know how it feels? Have you ever been in a elevator that drops abruptly? The movement of the ground was exactly like that. And of course much stronger a drop, aloud noise and temblor and getting out of the house. Is it safe place? Nothing is safe, that hole is still collapsing.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-801598 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-801598 my sister in law lives in zone 18 of Guatemala...i asked her the same question...how does that happen? she said the sink hole is caused by lack of planning when they were making the drainage systems my sister in law lives in zone 18 of Guatemala…i asked her the same question…how does that happen?

she said the sink hole is caused by lack of planning when they were making the drainage systems

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-801346 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-801346 sadly, it´s not photoshoped. i live in guatemala city and this is the second sinkhole occurence in les than 4 years. and yes, we all wonder why do they look perfectly rounded as if it was made by a drilling machine. sadly, it´s not photoshoped. i live in guatemala city and this is the second sinkhole occurence in les than 4 years. and yes, we all wonder why do they look perfectly rounded as if it was made by a drilling machine.

]]> By: Ugly Canuck http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-800838 Ugly Canuck Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-800838 And not just on Earth: here's a little video about Karst topography on Saturn's moon Titan: probably a magical land of canyons made of methane ice, with Saturn looming crazy large in the sky above the pits, canyons, sinkholes and valleys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul4DHFWAmOY Fascinating. And not just on Earth: here’s a little video about Karst topography on Saturn’s moon Titan: probably a magical land of canyons made of methane ice, with Saturn looming crazy large in the sky above the pits, canyons, sinkholes and valleys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul4DHFWAmOY

Fascinating.

]]> By: hagus http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-800841 hagus Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-800841 Am I the only one not seeing anything in the Google Maps link? Am I the only one not seeing anything in the Google Maps link?

]]> By: Kei http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-800848 Kei Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-800848 That photo is fake here is a better one and a video http://www.primerahora.com/tormentaagathadejaalmenos142muertosydanosencentroamerica%28vefotos%29-390785.html That photo is fake here is a better one and a video
http://www.primerahora.com/tormentaagathadejaalmenos142muertosydanosencentroamerica%28vefotos%29-390785.html

]]> By: sinister http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-800850 sinister Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-800850 ooh Xeni kinda responded directly to me. I feel all tingly. :-) ooh Xeni kinda responded directly to me. I feel all tingly. :-)

]]> By: Jim Conley http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-800852 Jim Conley Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-800852 While I'm not familiar with Karst topography I have spent the past 20 years building and maintaining large civil infrastructure and have a few thoughts on what happened here. Stormwater systems fall into two categories - collector and interceptor. Collection systems service individual properties, Interceptors are fed by collectors and are generally very large and very deep. Using my own reference area of Vancouver, local storm water collection starts at 150mm at the house and 300mm - 1200mm on the street depending where it is in the overall system. From there, it feeds into an interceptor system that you can drive a car in. My guess is that a large interceptor sewage main was tunneled underneath Guatemala City, probably 40 to 70 years ago. Localized collector systems were subsequently installed and tied into the interceptor main by digging down to install a manhole. The perfectly round hole suggests the back fill material washed into the interceptor pipe once it was breached. Somebody else referenced the recent sinkhole in Quebec but I'm pretty convinced this is a result of poor infrastructure maintenance. While I’m not familiar with Karst topography I have spent the past 20 years building and maintaining large civil infrastructure and have a few thoughts on what happened here.

Stormwater systems fall into two categories – collector and interceptor. Collection systems service individual properties, Interceptors are fed by collectors and are generally very large and very deep.

Using my own reference area of Vancouver, local storm water collection starts at 150mm at the house and 300mm – 1200mm on the street depending where it is in the overall system. From there, it feeds into an interceptor system that you can drive a car in.

My guess is that a large interceptor sewage main was tunneled underneath Guatemala City, probably 40 to 70 years ago. Localized collector systems were subsequently installed and tied into the interceptor main by digging down to install a manhole. The perfectly round hole suggests the back fill material washed into the interceptor pipe once it was breached.

Somebody else referenced the recent sinkhole in Quebec but I’m pretty convinced this is a result of poor infrastructure maintenance.

]]> By: Ugly Canuck http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-800855 Ugly Canuck Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-800855 I hope the rumors about other holes forming nearby prove to be without foundation. I hope the rumors about other holes forming nearby prove to be without foundation.

]]> By: WoodE http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-800856 WoodE Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-800856 There's a man lying on the ground by the pole in the NE quadrant... anybody know his story? Is he lying there dead, or what? There’s a man lying on the ground by the pole in the NE quadrant… anybody know his story? Is he lying there dead, or what?

]]> By: Xeni Jardin http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-801114 Xeni Jardin Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-801114 Hey thanks for that, step, and thanks to others who contributed knowledge on the factors that caused this -- really appreciate the informed, knowledgeable comments here! I've updated the post accordingly. Hey thanks for that, step, and thanks to others who contributed knowledge on the factors that caused this — really appreciate the informed, knowledgeable comments here! I’ve updated the post accordingly.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-803932 Antinous / Moderator Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-803932 Sinrah, Your website can go on your profile page, thanks. Sinrah,

Your website can go on your profile page, thanks.

]]> By: rain_globule http://boingboing.net/2010/05/31/guatemala-first-volc.html#comment-800864 rain_globule Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-800864 I think the hellmouth just opened again. I think the hellmouth just opened again.

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