Comments on: Wikileaks/Manning: "Are America's foreign policy secrets about to go online?"

By: warrenEBB

warrenEBB — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I recall reading that US gov had thinktank sourced plans ready to go for greater internet restrictions, and all they needed was a “911 style” online disaster before they could move forward. (think i’m referencing comments by Lawrence Lessig, Standford professor)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4631871144083884704#

Anyway. This seems like it could play out exactly as an i-9/11 disaster. soo. I’m very skeptical of the sources and motivations for announcing.

By: Stooge

Stooge — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

As Georbe Burns once said, too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving taxicabs and cutting hair.

By: proletariat

proletariat — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Cables? Really?

By: Antinous / Moderator

Antinous / Moderator — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

It’s about time that somebody lanced the boil and let out all the pus.

By: chip

chip — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Wikileaks doesn’t exactly have a history of “sitting on” leaked info. If they have this data, then they’ve had it for quite a while and it doesn’t make sense that they haven’t published it yet. It seems unlikely that they do have any of this stuff, but it certainly does make for a convenient excuse to bring the hammer down on anybody involved in the project, doesn’t it? If wikileaks volunteers start disappearing, I’m sure this will be the reason given for it, whether it’s a legitimate concern or not.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

What _is_ a diplomatic cable? The Googles, they do nothing!

By: grimc

grimc — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_telegraph_cable

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Didn’t Assange state in a New York Post article that the cable leaks came from data accrued from chinese hackers on a TOR node? Wouldn’t that mean any “state secrets” are in the hands of whatever Chinese Intelligence bureau it was skimmed from?

By: bersl2

bersl2 — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

It should be noted that Wikileaks denies having the cables. Somebody is not being truthful in the matter, and the hell if I can tell who. If Wikileaks does have them, it’s understandable. If the alleged leaker didn’t retrieve any such information and was just exaggerating, that’s somewhat understandable. If that Lamo guy is lying, that’s somewhat understandable too. If the Wired journalist is fabricating the claims, however, I can’t really understand that one, but I can still imagine it happening (assuming he broke the story).

By: grimc

grimc — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Is it possible that Manning stashed the data somewhere on the tubes and sent/was planning to send the address to wikileaks? Even if wikileaks knew where they were, they could still be honest and say they didn’t have them.

By: george57l

george57l — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Marcel
As well as the later rebuttals to your simplicity in this thread, you need to read WizarDru at #30. Several times. Until you get it.

“Yet you are not supposed to know what they do or say.

Because hey, that would endanger people or that would cause harm to relations or that would endanger security in some form or matter.”

Exactly! You have it correct, until you generate a massive FAIL by saying

“See, that’s pig’s logic as far as I’m concerned”

So, I know, let’s publish what the US negotiating team is writing to each other during, oh, I don’t know … let’s say the nuclear arms reduction talks with Russia (or any other such international negotiation) – in fact, they are doing it in our name so let’s make them do all their internal discussions on an open blog. I guess the other side would like that but I doubt you’d get any negotiating or agreements done.

Do you get it yet?

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

For anyone who thinks this info should not be released (if indeed Wikileaks has it), presumably because they feel national security is a fair excuse, please read the history of the Pentagon Papers and COINTELPRO. Then explain why our government should be trusted to keep this secret.

By: NomadEngineer

NomadEngineer — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

If Wikileaks actually has this stuff and puts it up there will be a boot on their door within the hour.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Well now, don’t we have to wonder what it is they don’t want us to read. I can only think it will reveal illegal conduct by government officials. Guess that is sound reason to suppress it.

By: Baldhead

Baldhead — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Consider the damage of revealing military plans. And internal communications of said plans, ideas thrown out and argued and so forth. Or for that matter, the controversy about those emails concerning Global Warming a few months ago which lead to renewed claims that the science wasn’t settled. Governments need to be judged by their actions not their intents, suggested strategies or what have you. There may be something like a diplomatic equivalent of plans for Britain to invade France (which probably exist, since wars happen whether you expect them or not)- something that may imply an intent whether or not it exists.

If they have them they should not release them en masse. Surely some sifting can be done.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

“There may be something like a diplomatic equivalent of plans for Britain to invade France (which probably exist, since wars happen whether you expect them or not)”

Doubtful. The whole point of the EU is to make sure it’s economically nonviable to even consider wars with other member countries.

Not all nations run on the premise that military action is the ultimate form of diplomacy.

By: NomadEngineer

NomadEngineer — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

There are plenty of reasons for diplomatic comms to be classified that don’t require government impropriety. Having this stuff revealed would be like playing poker with your hand face up on the table.

By: Eric Ragle

Eric Ragle — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I have mixed feelings about Wikileaks. I supported the “Collateral Murder” video being released even if I didn’t appreciate the title.

I want to believe they are a force for good but sometimes I wonder. Time will tell I guess.

By: reech

reech — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

So do we really think that Manning is an unthinking American that would knowingly endanger American lives? Something doesn’t quite add up here.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I know these “diplomatic cables” have something to do with the contents of that article. But somehow I don’t think this person is going to dredge up the cables and give them to WikiLeaks. Are these “cables” perhaps recordings of communications that took place over the physical cables?

By: tros

tros — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Poker with my hand face-up on the table is pretty bad, but I imagine that a metaphor from a game of bad bets, intimidation, and bluffs means nothing to a organization devoted to exposing the truth to the people.

By: benher

benher — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

This comment made me shoot a freshly mixed White Russian out of my nose! Cheers!

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

A true hero.

A visual to let the world know:
Open Eyes: I want people to see the truth. http://is.gd/cMcgI

By: Marcel

Marcel — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I really don’t understand what all this fuzz concerning privacy is all about.

I mean, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about, right?!

And if you do have stuff to hide, well then maybe you shouldn’t have done that stuff to begin with.

By: Marcel

Marcel — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I guess I don’t get it, because what you propose right there seems like something I would like to see as standard policy.

But then maybe I should adopt this conviction that it’s about winning or losing, as opposed to cooperating.

That the game is still world domination somehow.

And that the other one is trying to conquer you as much as you are trying to conquer them.

Looking at the world from an advisarial point of view, like you’re playing a game of Risk.

But this is about real people, and not some platic pawns on some map.
And decisions are made for those people that they are not supposed to know about or be aware of.

So, an open blog between diplomats from either side discussing the possibilities of nuclear arms reduction. With all cards on the table.

You know what that’s called?

Trust.

Do YOU get it?

By: NomadEngineer

NomadEngineer — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

How’s about this: How many people were killed or imprisoned as a result of Valerie Plame’s identity being revealed? I’ve heard estimates of around 200.
How many lives do you think this information is worth? Because if it gets out people will die.

By: agger

agger — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I think these cables, if they exist at all, have no significance whatsoever but is part of a psy-op against Wikileaks.

Take a phantom menace of “US foreign policy secrets”, lean on Wikileaks not to publish them, have friendly governments black them out if they decline. Or make them look discredited if they accede. And the “cables” themselves? Hot air, just a red herring.

By: Antinous / Moderator

Antinous / Moderator — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

How many lives do you think this information is worth? Because if it gets out people will die.

People are already dying. Lots and lots of them. If this information humiliates the US and its lackeys into stopping a useless war, then it will save lives.

By: Stooge

Stooge — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

agger, I would have assumed that your hypothesis was based on nothing more than wild, uninformed speculation, but as you use the term ‘psy-op’ I can see that you have, in fact, visited a multiplex, possibly with Dolby Digital sound.

By: Stooge

Stooge — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

If this information humiliates the US and its lackeys into stopping a useless war, then it will save lives.

Big if.

Perhaps there are also plans for a working cold fusion reactor, a dozen undiscovered Shakespeare plays, and a rosetta stone that lets us talk to chipmunks in there too.