Comments on: Wagon ruts from Oregon Trail still visible today http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Tue, 21 May 2013 04:51:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Schemathings http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838912 Schemathings Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838912 The detective story of the earth reminds me of a book I enjoyed - Reading the Forested Landscape: A Natural History of New England http://www.amazon.com/Reading-Forested-Landscape-Natural-History/dp/0881504203 The detective story of the earth reminds me of a book I enjoyed – Reading the Forested Landscape: A Natural History of New England http://www.amazon.com/Reading-Forested-Landscape-Natural-History/dp/0881504203

]]> By: planettom http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838411 planettom Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838411 My OREGON TRAIL got into a rut when I kept dying of dysentery. I've seen wagon tracks at the Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico near the Tooth of Time. My OREGON TRAIL got into a rut when I kept dying of dysentery.

I’ve seen wagon tracks at the Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico near the Tooth of Time.

]]> By: Felton http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838680 Felton Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838680 Ah, but thunderhammer has taught me a valuable lesson: that one thing isn't interesting if another thing has more of the property that presumably makes it interesting. Ah, but thunderhammer has taught me a valuable lesson: that one thing isn’t interesting if another thing has more of the property that presumably makes it interesting.

]]> By: druidbros http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-839192 druidbros Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-839192 There are places in the Flint Hills of Kansas where you can see the wagon ruts also. There are places in the Flint Hills of Kansas where you can see the wagon ruts also.

]]> By: ferrohorse http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838681 ferrohorse Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838681 A important factor in why these tracks are still visible is the aridity of the American West -- simply not enough precipitation to erode the tracks, to break up the compacted soil, or to support the kind of vegetation that would cover the tracks in wetter areas of the country. A important factor in why these tracks are still visible is the aridity of the American West — simply not enough precipitation to erode the tracks, to break up the compacted soil, or to support the kind of vegetation that would cover the tracks in wetter areas of the country.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838682 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838682 There are ruts of the Mormon Trail about a mile from my house. (I live in Omaha, Nebraska, a couple of miles from Winter Quarters.) There are ruts of the Mormon Trail about a mile from my house. (I live in Omaha, Nebraska, a couple of miles from Winter Quarters.)

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838938 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838938 Slit trenches and foxholes are still visible outside Crow Agency MT on the site of the Reno-Benteen fight. This is the lesser known component of the Little Bighorn battlefield, which took place about five miles away, after Custer divided his command. You can walk the trails around the fight and see where the surgeon dug out the hospital point, where troopers dug fortifications with their knives and bootheels, and, obviously, the stones where bodies were found after the fight. Matt St Paul Slit trenches and foxholes are still visible outside Crow Agency MT on the site of the Reno-Benteen fight. This is the lesser known component of the Little Bighorn battlefield, which took place about five miles away, after Custer divided his command.

You can walk the trails around the fight and see where the surgeon dug out the hospital point, where troopers dug fortifications with their knives and bootheels, and, obviously, the stones where bodies were found after the fight.

Matt
St Paul

]]> By: ferrohorse http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838691 ferrohorse Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838691 Who's rewriting history? The United States and Oregon Trail of the 1840s-60s was hardly an industrial society, and just the barest beginnings of the integrated global economy we "enjoy" today. Who’s rewriting history?

The United States and Oregon Trail of the 1840s-60s was hardly an industrial society, and just the barest beginnings of the integrated global economy we “enjoy” today.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838704 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838704 It's true! I grew up in Wilder, Idaho (look it up), and there are tons of interesting places to visit in that area. From the Oregon Trail Interpretive Center in Baker City, Fort Boise in Parma, all sorts of sites in Boise, and the crossing at Three Island Crossing. Have your own Oregon Trail excursion! I highly recommend it! It’s true! I grew up in Wilder, Idaho (look it up), and there are tons of interesting places to visit in that area. From the Oregon Trail Interpretive Center in Baker City, Fort Boise in Parma, all sorts of sites in Boise, and the crossing at Three Island Crossing.
Have your own Oregon Trail excursion! I highly recommend it!

]]> By: murrayhenson http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838465 murrayhenson Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838465 My wife, a friend of ours and I went on a seven day road trip through Oregon last year, from Portland south to Klamath Falls across Christmas Valley and the Malheur area then up to Baker City, Hells Canyon and finally back towards Portland. One of the many places we stopped at along the way - this was a Geocaching road trip - was a spot near the Blue Mountains where you could still see the wagon ruts. As someone else pointed out you can see far older tracks in Rome but the difference between those and these is that these are from semi-recent history and something I can understand and more or less identify with. In Rome I would be just another tourist at a busy place. BTW, that's not to suggest that I don't think anyone shouldn't visit Rome. Do go but consider straying off the beaten path. Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary and Croatia are all near by (relatively speaking) and then you will have a real story to tell. A number of my friends have taken holidays in Croatia and they loved it. Cheap and cheerful as the saying goes. My wife, a friend of ours and I went on a seven day road trip through Oregon last year, from Portland south to Klamath Falls across Christmas Valley and the Malheur area then up to Baker City, Hells Canyon and finally back towards Portland.

One of the many places we stopped at along the way – this was a Geocaching road trip – was a spot near the Blue Mountains where you could still see the wagon ruts.

As someone else pointed out you can see far older tracks in Rome but the difference between those and these is that these are from semi-recent history and something I can understand and more or less identify with. In Rome I would be just another tourist at a busy place.

BTW, that’s not to suggest that I don’t think anyone shouldn’t visit Rome. Do go but consider straying off the beaten path. Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary and Croatia are all near by (relatively speaking) and then you will have a real story to tell. A number of my friends have taken holidays in Croatia and they loved it. Cheap and cheerful as the saying goes.

]]> By: AGC http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838473 AGC Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838473 "More than 400,000 people traveled the Oregon Trail during the 19th century..." Brave pioneers? Refuges from an economic recession? It's time the United States rewrote its history, and got rid of the romantic image of prosperity. When will the USA see itself as part of a larger economic world, swept along in its eddies and currents of an industrial economy. “More than 400,000 people traveled the Oregon Trail during the 19th century…”

Brave pioneers?
Refuges from an economic recession?

It’s time the United States rewrote its history, and got rid of the romantic image of prosperity.
When will the USA see itself as part of a larger economic world, swept along in its eddies and currents of an industrial economy.

]]> By: Omir the Storyteller http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838754 Omir the Storyteller Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838754 I saw a set of ruts like this near Scott's Bluff in western Nebraska about 30 years ago. Their web site says they don't really have wagon ruts due to erosion, but I'm sure I saw them. Maybe they're just being modest. I saw a set of ruts like this near Scott’s Bluff in western Nebraska about 30 years ago. Their web site says they don’t really have wagon ruts due to erosion, but I’m sure I saw them. Maybe they’re just being modest.

]]> By: Crispy Critter http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838502 Crispy Critter Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838502 This effect can be seen where abandoned railroads were ripped out long ago, as well. Illinois is crisscrossed with old rail routes that can still be discerned in Google Earth. Sometimes they show up as lines of trees with distinctive sweeping curves, and other times there are nothing but faint scars in farm fields. Even though such fields are routinely tilled, the evidence doesn't always disappear. This effect can be seen where abandoned railroads were ripped out long ago, as well. Illinois is crisscrossed with old rail routes that can still be discerned in Google Earth. Sometimes they show up as lines of trees with distinctive sweeping curves, and other times there are nothing but faint scars in farm fields. Even though such fields are routinely tilled, the evidence doesn’t always disappear.

]]> By: bellhalla http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838505 bellhalla Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838505 Unfortunately, no, just a visitor. Unfortunately, no, just a visitor.

]]> By: Beezy http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838509 Beezy Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838509 In answer to your question, Moser, repeated compaction from traffic can create a hardpan in the soil. The soil becomes so dense that it is impervious to water. It can be broken up by a plow if you have enough time and patience, but it's basically as hard as a rock. In answer to your question, Moser, repeated compaction from traffic can create a hardpan in the soil. The soil becomes so dense that it is impervious to water. It can be broken up by a plow if you have enough time and patience, but it’s basically as hard as a rock.

]]> By: kip w http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-839022 kip w Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-839022 Same thing at Signature Rock in Colorado, where the Overland Trail and (if memory serves) Mormon Trail and Wheelbarrow Trail come together. The rock is a big old sandstone mushroom with names of wagon travelers scratched into it. The wagon ruts are not only still there, some of them get wider and deeper and become a gully through the miracle of erosion. It's on private land, but a friend of mine has permission to go there. I hope I can get back to it again. Same thing at Signature Rock in Colorado, where the Overland Trail and (if memory serves) Mormon Trail and Wheelbarrow Trail come together. The rock is a big old sandstone mushroom with names of wagon travelers scratched into it.

The wagon ruts are not only still there, some of them get wider and deeper and become a gully through the miracle of erosion. It’s on private land, but a friend of mine has permission to go there. I hope I can get back to it again.

]]> By: kip w http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-839029 kip w Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-839029 Apropos of not much, there was another keen landmark off of highway 87 by the Colorado/Wyoming border that we used to go to, the Natural Fort. A bunch of wind-fluted rocks that one group of Native Americans was besieged in by another group until hunger took its toll. We kids used to beg to get out of the car and clamber around (and sometimes through) the rocks. It's still there, sort of. When they made I-25, the story goes, the planners pondered how to make this wonderful place available to travelers in both directions. With Solomonic wisdom, they blasted through the middle of it, leaving a half or a third of what used to be there. Apropos of not much, there was another keen landmark off of highway 87 by the Colorado/Wyoming border that we used to go to, the Natural Fort. A bunch of wind-fluted rocks that one group of Native Americans was besieged in by another group until hunger took its toll. We kids used to beg to get out of the car and clamber around (and sometimes through) the rocks.

It’s still there, sort of. When they made I-25, the story goes, the planners pondered how to make this wonderful place available to travelers in both directions. With Solomonic wisdom, they blasted through the middle of it, leaving a half or a third of what used to be there.

]]> By: Brandon Heyer http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838525 Brandon Heyer Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838525 There is wear in stone on the Oregon trail also, I've touched it -- pretty impressive. There is wear in stone on the Oregon trail also, I’ve touched it — pretty impressive.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-839037 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-839037 @ No. 47: maybe "turnover" was not the best of expressions (sorry, not my first language). it is obviously a cumulative effect of many many wagons. but it is not compaction. every wagon takes away a little bit of the outer layer of soil, which might or might not be replaced with something different. light sand that the wind blows in for example. anyways - the soil that is there now is different from the soil around and thats why the plants are different, too (sometimes missing). @ No. 47:

maybe “turnover” was not the best of expressions (sorry, not my first language).

it is obviously a cumulative effect of many many wagons. but it is not compaction.
every wagon takes away a little bit of the outer layer of soil, which might or might not be replaced with something different. light sand that the wind blows in for example.
anyways – the soil that is there now is different from the soil around and thats why the plants are different, too (sometimes missing).

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-839293 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-839293 I was just at Hells Gate and Independence Rock in WY where there are numerous wagon ruts. If you ever happen to get there, go to Hells gate and see the Mormon museum on the 1856 Handcart Disaster. It really makes you think about how determined these people were. The Mormons had arranged for 10 companies of people to push handcarts from Iowa to Salt lake City to spare the expense of the required number of wagons. Each company consisted of anywhere from 100 to 500 people. Many of these people were from Europe. There were delays in getting across the Atlantic and then delays in Iowa in getting handcarts made. The first 8 companies did well but the last two got to Independence Rock in mid-October, very late. They ran into blizzards and died by scores of hunger and exposure. Fortunately, relief parties arrived from Salt Lake and saved most of them. YES, if you go there you will talk to Mormons but go anyway. It is very moving. I was just at Hells Gate and Independence Rock in WY where there are numerous wagon ruts. If you ever happen to get there, go to Hells gate and see the Mormon museum on the 1856 Handcart Disaster. It really makes you think about how determined these people were. The Mormons had arranged for 10 companies of people to push handcarts from Iowa to Salt lake City to spare the expense of the required number of wagons. Each company consisted of anywhere from 100 to 500 people. Many of these people were from Europe. There were delays in getting across the Atlantic and then delays in Iowa in getting handcarts made. The first 8 companies did well but the last two got to Independence Rock in mid-October, very late. They ran into blizzards and died by scores of hunger and exposure. Fortunately, relief parties arrived from Salt Lake and saved most of them.
YES, if you go there you will talk to Mormons but go anyway. It is very moving.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-839044 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-839044 When I went to Wyoming University for a semester we were roped into a FBLM survey on the Oregon Trail for a couple of days, walking along flagging anything that seemed interesting. We found wagon hubs and saw the ruts. Pretty amazing, especially standing out there fifty miles from the nearest habitation, to think how they did it. When I went to Wyoming University for a semester we were roped into a FBLM survey on the Oregon Trail for a couple of days, walking along flagging anything that seemed interesting. We found wagon hubs and saw the ruts. Pretty amazing, especially standing out there fifty miles from the nearest habitation, to think how they did it.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-839306 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-839306 My Grandfather used to own the land on the north shore of Three Island Ford. On the south shore, the wagon tracks coming down the steep slope to the river were visible years ago, and still may be as far as I know. The pioneers used rocks under the wheels to help brake the wagons as they came down the slope; I used to have one that still showed the rust stains from the iron rims of the wheels. The Snake River is known for treacherous currents and undertows, probably because of its rough, rocky bed. Three Island Ford was one of the few places where it was feasible to cross, but even there, it was no picnic. Unfortunately, the alternate, safer route south of the Snake had no water for another 30 miles or so. My Grandfather used to own the land on the north shore of Three Island Ford. On the south shore, the wagon tracks coming down the steep slope to the river were visible years ago, and still may be as far as I know. The pioneers used rocks under the wheels to help brake the wagons as they came down the slope; I used to have one that still showed the rust stains from the iron rims of the wheels.

The Snake River is known for treacherous currents and undertows, probably because of its rough, rocky bed. Three Island Ford was one of the few places where it was feasible to cross, but even there, it was no picnic. Unfortunately, the alternate, safer route south of the Snake had no water for another 30 miles or so.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838539 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838539 inside the south east of boise city limit there (3 rivers crossing is ~60 min south east of boise) section of the trail that is very very visible its not that much to see big power lines cut right through it but as i type this i am about 100m north of the oregon trail inside the south east of boise city limit there (3 rivers crossing is ~60 min south east of boise) section of the trail that is very very visible its not that much to see big power lines cut right through it

but as i type this i am about 100m north of the oregon trail

]]> By: Church http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838797 Church Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838797 "i do not think that it was compression of soil that lead to no plants growing. it was just a turnover with removal of the upper soil, where plants can grow." So your thinking is that wagon wheels plow, rather than compact, soil? “i do not think that it was compression of soil that lead to no plants growing. it was just a turnover with removal of the upper soil, where plants can grow.”

So your thinking is that wagon wheels plow, rather than compact, soil?

]]> By: JIMWICh http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838288 JIMWICh Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838288 You've died of dysentery. You’ve died of dysentery.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838289 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838289 Also true of sections of the Santa Fe Trail, which are still highly visible. Also true of sections of the Santa Fe Trail, which are still highly visible.

]]> By: Church http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-839571 Church Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-839571 The point here isn't that they're OMG old trails. It's that they're old trails over sod that still persist. Yes, everyone in Europe has sewers older than our country. We know. Enjoy them. The point here isn’t that they’re OMG old trails. It’s that they’re old trails over sod that still persist.

Yes, everyone in Europe has sewers older than our country. We know. Enjoy them.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838292 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838292 I read 245 words of this article, but I can only carry 100 back to the wagon. I read 245 words of this article, but I can only carry 100 back to the wagon.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838294 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838294 It's funny how given different life experiences some people can find one thing surprising, while others find it completely ordinary. Growing up in Boise, Idaho I was able to climb a short path up a bluff and see one of these tracks between my home, and the next subdivision over. It’s funny how given different life experiences some people can find one thing surprising, while others find it completely ordinary. Growing up in Boise, Idaho I was able to climb a short path up a bluff and see one of these tracks between my home, and the next subdivision over.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/07/19/wagon-ruts-from-oreg.html#comment-838296 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-838296 There are days that I sit back and wish that I could trade my modern day vehicle for an old wagon for reasons which I do not recall.. There are days that I sit back and wish that I could trade my modern day vehicle for an old wagon for reasons which I do not recall..

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