Comments on: PayPal freezes assets of Burning Man artists, builders

By: Rooker

Rooker — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

They can do this because they have no competition and they can say screw you to anyone who doesn’t like their behavior.

It’s 2010, why are there no serious competitors to Paypal?

By: jonathan_v

jonathan_v — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I don’t understand what the IRS status could have to do with this.

Whether the group is a non-profit, a person, or a business entity, the IRS decides who gets taxed and it is they who charge them for it. PayPal has nothing to do with that situation.

This really does just sound like PayPal being shady.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Paypal is evil. I wouldn’t trust these crooks with 1 lousy cent of mine.

They have shown time and time again that they are not to be trusted with anyone’s money. This kind of thing is what paypal is notorious for.

By: Zadaz

Zadaz — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I thought it was widely known that PayPal will do this if they feel like it. And they feel like it if anything triggers their “fraud alert” system, like suddenly getting tens of thousands of dollars. Lots of fundraisers have run into this.

The solution is either a) Don’t use PayPal for fundraisers. (Try kickstarter) Or b) move money out of the paypal account -immediately- after it’s depositited.

Paypal is not a bank, it’s a private company plagued by fraud and no idea how to deal with it. Don’t trust them with your money for a moment longer than you have to.

By: franko

franko — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

i hope paypal takes a HUGE amount of heat and flack for this. if they screw up the temple for the first time in burning man’s history, that will truly suck. the temple is (in my opinion) the most important burn on the playa for the community from an emotional standpoint, and it looked like it was going to be GORGEOUS this year, to boot. ebay/paypal, you suck.

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

These guys have my sympathy, but I’m beginning to wonder how many more times this has to happen before people learn the golden rule of using PayPal:

- Never, ever, leave more money in your PayPal account than is strictly necessary to make payments or cover chargebacks. Do not use PayPal as if it is a bank, because it isn’t, and it has some very random rules that can lead to them locking you out of your own money.

By: clenchner

clenchner — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

1. If any nonprofits or fundraising folks are in the room, check out http://www.donationpay.org/. They work with groups that do not have 501c3 status yet, or ever.

2. I was told by a Paypal employee on the phone that they cannot explain which rules led to the suspension of my personal account, as a matter of policy. (I had been making inquiries about using a business account to raise money for an oversees charity, and made one donation: from myself to myself. This triggered a shutdown of my personal account, no recourse, no appeals process, no explanation.

By: Drew from Zhrodague

Drew from Zhrodague — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I was also locked out of my paypal funds for a couple of weeks — just got access to my funds again Monday. I use paypal like a bank, and pay my bills with it. I haven’t had any problem doing this over the last 10 years, but I have heard some horror stories.

When some vendor got hacked, and used my account to buy stuff, they put my account on hold until I could verify my address. So I sent them pictures of my bills, as they requested. Apparently, the credit reporting agency (and two other unnamed agencies) are used by paypal to verify a customer’s address. I suppose that since I’ve not had any credit accounts over the last 8 years, that I was not listed by the third party, and they could not verify my address.

After pleading with the guy on the phone, he must’ve looked at my account history, and got permission from his boss to turn my account back on.

Is there an alternative to banks or paypal? I spend a lot on bank fees for the privilege of using direct-deposit.

/cool story bro

By: Syd

Syd — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Hey Peter Thiel (Paypal founder and super libertarian), do you ever wonder why businesses and banks end up getting regulated by the government?

By: fhamilton

fhamilton — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Something vaguely similar happened to a local art group who were using paypal to sell tickets to a rather large music event. It was a one-off, volunteer organized event that ended up getting pretty large, selling out almost, if not all of the 4 day festival. Paypal wanted proof that everybody had a good time and felt like they got their money’s worth, otherwise they were going to start refunding.

On the one hand, it’s great that there’s a system (as flawed as is might be) that allows people who normally wouldn’t be able to, to take payment. On the other hand, paypal inserting itself as the arbiter of the appropriateness and value of the goods or services sold via their system is pretty scary and seems like just as slippery a slope as the risk of someone committing fraud.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Re: Rooker â€¢ #12
There is no competition for PayPal because it is owned by Ebay. Want to list an auction and receive payment? Use Paypal, otherwise Ebay will yank your auctions. They don’t ALLOW you to use other payment methods such as Western Union/money orders, and REALLY dislike accepting checks (due to fraud, of course). There are other electronic money companies out there, but the entire Ebay thing really limits their action and awareness.

Personally, I think a lawsuit should be brought against Ebay for exclusively allowing PayPal as the only electronic payment type, especially since they OWN PayPal.

By: bersl2

bersl2 — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Paypal? Revoking accounts in an almost arbitrary and capricious way? It’s more likely than you think!

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I know everyone wants to peg PayPal as the most evil of all evils, but has anyone bothered to read the terms of service for the service they’re using? PayPal explicitly says that you cannot use the service to accept donations unless you have a tax exempt status and have forwarded proof of that to PayPal.

Learn to read the rules before you complain.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Having directed the temple project in 2008, I can relate a similar experience from Paypal, when they froze our account for a few days while we cleared up a clerical error. On the other hand, it’s hard for me to fault Paypal in this situation. If a group is acting like a nonprofit, and yet is not a nonprofit, then paypal has the right to hold funds. The best advice is to make sure that the artists have someone who is detail-oriented like an accountant and is responsible for oversight and management of this crap. That, and I echo the comment that paypal should not be treated like a bank. Move that funding out before they decide to get their hands on it!

Makes me wonder why they decided to become a nonprofit, rather than finding a suitable 501c3 fiscal sponsor like we did with Basura Sagrada? So much easier and quicker (and I say that with the experience of having started a nonprofit since we built the temple.)

On the other hand, there is no way this will prevent the temple from being built. Like AIG, the temple is “too big to fail.” I’m sure backroom phone calls are already being made to find a few rich burners who can extend them credit until this gets cleared up. If that isn’t happening, then something is seriously wrong and they should get in touch.
-Tucker

PS. 2 years ago on this date, we were already on the playa with a big box of collected money, ignoring the real world and building our dreams. Get thee to the playa with yon funds, FLUX!