Mark Frauenfelder at 11:36 am Wed, Sep 8, 2010
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(Video Link) The talented D.C. Douglas wrote, produced, and voiced this fake commercial making fun of Koran-burning hate mongers.
Mark Frauenfelder is the founder of Boing Boing and the editor-in-chief of MAKE and Cool Tools. Twitter: @frauenfelder. His latest book is Made by Hand: My Adventures in the World of DIY
The anxiety of unplugging and why we should disconnect to connect
Suspicionless searches at US border: the next battleground for press freedom
Oh, one more thing. Muslims HAVE burned the Bible on multiple occasions.
Citations or put a sock in it.
Geez, I don’t necessarily agree with Harrkev, but are you REALLY trying to cast doubt on his assertion?
My opinion, FWIW, is that on the whole there are a lot more muslims brought up to believe that violence is the answer, than there are other religions. Don’t bring up individual counterexamples, I’m just saying numerically. And there are quite a few countries which are predominantly muslim which are incapable of or unwilling to police their own lunatics. Yeah, sure, some christians burn abortion clinics, and there are plenty of violent racist rednecks – but at least they’re POLICED. Don’t cite a couple of counterexamples, I’m just saying, numerically…
It’s not that Muslims are inherently violent, but there are some really violent cultures out there that don’t draw a distinction between Islam and jihad. Cultures which get discussed a lot on our evening news. Don’t be surprised if a sizeable chunk of our population who have short attention spans and watch too much Fox news take their zealots at face value.
My opinion, FWIW, is that on the whole there are a lot more muslims brought up to believe that violence is the answer, than there are other religions.
There certainly are a lot of Muslims living in poverty whose education comes from extremists, because the state can’t fill the gap.
It’s easy to point fingers at radicals when you’re comfortable and well fed.
I don’t think it’s really even necessary for you to justify that comment with a response. Poverty breeds fringe politics and extremism. Religion, any religion, is just the vehicle.
To blame a specific religion, followed by a specific group of people, just shows a very different goal to the argument than you and I would have in countering it.
It’s just that there are only so many ways to frame “Your opinion isn’t worth a pinch of shit” politely.
So all Muslims are jerks. Got it!
Stick to your guns, Antinous. The louder, stupider voices can prevail at plenty of other sites.
fantastic, love it! The best is using the voice and echo like the Monster Truck rallies and Wrestling Extravaganzas!
are you REALLY trying to cast doubt on his assertion?
Are you REALLY trying to use a lmgtfy link that leads to a bunch of blog posts as a credible citation from a reputable source?
I agree that Harrkev’s post should be backed up by citations.
However, it’s pretty easy to come up with an experiment that would settle the question.
Get a good ol’ bonfire burning and toss in a Bible, a Talmud, a Bhagavad Gita, a set of the Vedas, a Book of Mormon, a Tao Te Ching, and, of course, a Quran.
Then just monitor the news and see who starts a riot about it.
I can tell that the google results were too hard for you to read, or possibly that they didn’t support your preconceived notions, so okay, I’ll read it for you and extract the links.
I mean, jeez, is it really so hard for you to believe that there are some violent, reactionary arsonist muslims out there? I understand asking for citations in the case of an outlandish claim, but planting your flag on this one seems a little…. odd.
Of course there are extremist muslims in the world – we’ve seen their actions.
But you know what; I’ve also seen the actions of extremist Christian groups … far more frequently.
The major difference between the two is that the muslim extremist groups are formed via decades of western oppression (mostly from the US), brain-washing and military training.
In contrast the Christian extremists are generally just fucking assholes.
I live in England; and you know it might surprise you to learn that we’ve had terrorist problems far more sever than yours (i.e. more than 1 attack); guess what religion these terrorists belonged to? Christianity. Catholic and Protestant to be specific.
Blaming a religion for a terrorist movement is just fucking stupid. In the same way as blaming the hats they wear or the TV they watch. Terrorists are brain-washed, violently angled extremist believers. The cult they choose to follow – in my oppinion – is irrelevant.
However the important thing to note here is that burning books of any kind in response to a situation you clearly don’t understand in the slightest is flat-out-ignorant. And for the rest of the world this is just another ‘dumb Americans do something dumb’ story.
Okay. Now that you’ve provided citations, let’s dissect them.
â™¥ The Australian: the culprits were a seventh grade student and ninth grade student.
â™¥ Spero News is an American conservative news and news analysis website. Its goal is “promoting a correctly informed and discerning public opinion as reflected in Judeo-Christian values.” — from Wikipedia
â™¥ “according to sources who spoke to Israel Today.”
â™¥ World Net Daily sells books like the Tea Party Manifesto and The Manchurian President: Barack Obama’s Ties to Communists, Socialists and Other Anti-American Extremist.
â™¥ The Christian Post is an evangelical Christian news outlet.
Do you have one citation from a reputable, unbiased source where the perps aren’t adolescents? I searched ‘Muslims burn bibles’ on BBC, NYT and CNN and got no news articles on the first page of all three about Muslims burning bibles.
Obama does it in his underground deathmosque.
I do not have citations.
But now I do!
I will simply google “Travtastic and Obama Underground Death Mosque” whenever someone tries to tell me that Barry Hussein isn’t a Krypto-Moozlim.
If you get google hits, it must be true, right Harrkev?
Seriously, I’d think more of Islam if more Muslims would get out and burn them some Bibles. There’s absolutely not enough holy book burnin’ going around. I’m going to go torch up a copy of the Popul Vuh – take that, Hugo Chavez you dirty commie!
Yeah, the Hawaiian government “won’t release them”. Wink. Wink.
Please forgive the use of a justly un-PC word, but:
The right wing in this country has gone full retard.
What were they before?
Yeah, it’s all in fun. But getting stoned in the U.S. is not at all like getting stoned in a Muslim country.
Oh they’ll stone you, all right…
But that’s all right, Ma, everybody MUST get stoned!
Burning religious books is free speech. Hate speech, yes, but free.
Are people afraid of what will happen to the USA if some Christian points his middle finger at the Muslim faith in this manner?
I view the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq as a few orders of magnitude more provocative than one guy burning some religious books. Yet a large fraction of the US populace seems to have supported those activities.
All that devil’s advocate stuff aside, I would have no qualms about burning a bunch of bibles in front of said pastor. Free speech is free speech, no matter what the message.
It’s sort of like if someone steals your car, and then shits on your doorstep the next day. Provocative way beyond proportion, because it’s tacked on top of thousands of other provocations.
Funny ain’t it how free speech can be utterly worthless and contemptible.
That liberal, tyrannical, progressive, pussy, peace dove was asking for it and I took great pleasure in its destruction in the name of Action Jesus.
IIRC, the Muslims consider the Bible also to be a “Holy Book”: but that it was superseded by the Koran.
But the Bible nevertheless to them is yet a Godly thing: no pious Muslim would burn one.
True! Jews have the Old Testament, Christians have the Old and New Testaments, Muslims have both Testaments and the Quran as well. Whenever a group splinters off, they keep the old and add to it.
I don’t think it is true. The Muslims respect the Old and New Testaments as divinely inspired, but they have been replaced not augmented by the Quran. In places where they are in conflict – like anything implying the divinity of Jesus – the latter takes priority.
Nice tactic- “Okay, but those examples don’t count because I just added a minimum age requirement, and a post-facto reputation requirement”
Worldnet Daily was citing this: http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2006/s06040024.htm
The Christian Post was citing this:
But I guess you can just say find any article I point you to and say “no, dammit, it has to be on bbc.co.uk!”
Is a picture worth a thousand words?
Instead of just criticizing my ability to produce forensic evidence, why don’t you add something to the debate? Tell me why it’s impossible for any muslim, no matter how misguided, or radicalized, to have ever burned a bible?
â™¥ “ASSIST News Service is brought to you in part by Gospel for Asia (GFA).”
â™¥ “Compass Direct News is a news service dedicated to providing exclusive news, penetrating reports, moving interviews and insightful analyses of situations and events facing Christians persecuted for their faith.”
â™¥ islamizationwatch.blogspot? What part of credible and unbiased are you finding hard to understand?
Yes, that last one is probably from a legitimate article about a mob burning down a Catholic church. And, yes, churches have been firebombed in Malaysia and other Muslim countries. Just like mosques and synagogues have been firebombed in the US, Latin America and Europe.
it is impossible for any muslim to have ever burned a bible.
bibles are surrounded by a divine protective ring of jesus fire from heaven, and thus must be made out of asbestos. divine, protective jesus asbestos.
i have citations to prove this:
Funny, but I wonder how Bin Laden would react to the whole taking Gods name in vain bit. :-)
Not funny — the fact that I’ve lived in both Gainesville and Kansas. Are these people following me?
I have a Quran in PDF, is it okay to delete it? I don’t want to offend anybody… but need to clear up some space. What shall I do?
You could burn it to a disk.
When radio was first introduced in Saudi Arabia, conservatives claimed that it was a device of Satan. The government rather elegantly pulled the rug out from under them by making the first-ever broadcast verses from the Quran and pointing out that you couldn’t very well hear the words of God on a device of the devil.
God Bless America
Burning a symbol is not an excuse for a violent reaction. It’s an excuse to keep an eye on the person or group that burnt it as a potential threat to real things, though. I’m pro-safety, anti-stupidity.
It just shows how off the deep end everyone with strong commitments and beliefs are when they react violently to a non-violent action. Unless the burning destroys endangered information or threatens someones property, livelihood, or life, there’s no excuse for a violent reaction.
If there’s one thing Americans should be able to do, it’s burn all the symbols of silly religion and foolish powers. And then make fun of the reaction said incineration causes.
Anon #57: Are you planning to “make fun” of this reaction too?
It’s a big day for Islam-related news. The Saudi website for fatwas is closing down – you know, the one that recommended breast-feeding strangers so that you could treat them like family members. Iran is releasing one of the three US hikers. And Iran has suspended the stoning sentence for Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani for adultery, although she may still be hanged for murder.
Maybe that’s cause Eid is just around the corner?
And – it’s nice to see that the good Pastor of the Dove Christian Center has seen the light, and thus no longer feels the need – to light a fire.
Sorry about that… here’s a better link, instead of the Guardian piece I linked to, the actual Atlantic material is better:
@UglyCanuck: Why would you listen to someone talk to you of their own religion, either? Nine times out of ten they’re simply proselytizing and they’ll bury the embarrassing things about their faith as surely as they’ll only talk about those same things in another faith.
But those people, if they know of such “embarrassing things” in their religion, must have other, compensatory reasons or beliefs which overcome those, to continue holding their beliefs.
I’m not looking to argue in such situations, but to understand.
I’ll say it, since I’m sure others here have thought of it but are too bashful to admit it:
Rev. Fred cleans up pretty nicely. Who knew that with a little lipstick and eyeshadow he’d be so fetching? Too bad, he already is spoken for.
THAT is a good and funny piece of. . .propaganda.
and I agree with it. . .but the whole situation is fraught with complications and difficulties.
Burning books: that’s bad. Burning (other peoples) holy books: maybe even worse.
Paying attention to some yahoo with 50 (Fifty!) followers and their brand of bullshit. . .-how many Korans can they even Find in backwaterville??-; THAT is the other side of our Interconnectivity: let the Ignorant in our country inflame and enrage the Ignorant around the world!!! Priceless? (depends on how much you value human life: but seems to me this theatre will come with a heavy price. . .)
Should be Duh to say: NOT all Christian folks with concerns about Islam are bad; not all Islam folks with concerns about The West are bad either. . . But This Is Pointless and Stupid.
Love the Planet reversing it’s axis tho’: that’s pretty haha.
this is what is satanity
“Stirring shit up for publicity”. That sums up everything these evangelical publicity whores have been doing for the last decade.
How many people are actually talking about burning Qurans? Don’t let a couple nuts ruin the whole gallon of ice cream.
You missed the word “these”. As in, the two d-bags responsible for the proposed burning.
If only more people would be that specific about the Muslims they’re bashing.
I wonder what would happen if you turn up with a bible instead of a Qur’an? After all, burning the holy book of a religion you object to is what they’re all about…
Its funny how some of the stories in the Quaran are the same as in the bible. Really stupid, but i guess they dont know that or what?
Bad english! Im danish! (I did not make the cartoons!)
Like it or not, that guy is currently making US foreign policy. What puzzles me is that US officials are letting him.
It’s that darn First Amendment again. Wish we could make an exception for extreme stupidity.
That is awesome in a monster-truck-rally + deep fried snickers sort of way.
I have no idea what that means, but it seems to fit.
They totally had me until the phelps part.
I was ready to go.
Don’t you hate it when a crazy person you secretly agree with joins forces with another crazy person who’s idea you recognize as crazy.
I really don’t know what to say over here, this is very disturbing actually, because i know lots of Arab people and or Muslim people. They are the sweetest most loyal people i know so far. Anyways burning their book of religion is a big mistake and is a shame, and by the way Terrorism has no religion so there is no way you can say the religion of Terrorism is Islam.
I say open your mind and dig for the smart part of it. Dont be ignorant like people that don’t know nothing about what they talk about.
Should all be respected
Whether or not some Muslims have desecrated the Bible in the past is not really the point here. Maybe some Muslims have. But hating Christianity is not one of the tenets of Islamic faith. If Muslims have desecrated Bibles or whatever, it’s because they, specifically, are jerkoffs, not because the principles of their religion necessarily demand such behavior. And those kinds of people are present in every religion. Does Fred Phelps speak for all of Christianity? When the douche in the video advocates Quran burning, he is in effect blaming an entire religion for things only its extremists have done. Y’know, extremists like him.
On top of all that, do we really want to stoop to this level?
This is absolutely brilliant, Particularly in that in many areas of our fine land people would not realize it is satire.
Hmmm. Muslims routinely burn American flags and effigies of our presidents. I remember seeing videos of muslims celebrating after 9/11 — and somebody is going to be worrying about burning one book?
Also, I find the reactions interesting. The fact that people are worried about this symbolic act putting American soldiers at more risk just kind of proves the point of the Koran burners.
“An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.” — Gandhi
I don’t think burning a flag is on the same level as burning a religion’s holy book.
One is politics. The other goes a whole lot deeper.
But this video is flat out funny. And a sad sad commentary on our times.
It’s just a dead trees and ink, and a flag is a piece of cloth, and neither of those statements really matter.
This is completely a matter of respect, a complete lack of it. If a huge group of people revered a certain brand of wristwatch, and he smashed it, screaming “ROFL FUCK YOU WATCHISM!”, it would accomplish the same goal as this Quran burning.
It’s not important what you’re using to burn a billion people in effigy, it’s that you’re doing it in the first place. When large swathes of the Middle East see frequent flag burning, I can empathize. I could empathize if they were burning bibles, dictionaries, whatever. When some well-to-do asshole insults a billion people for no reason, I will not empathize.
So let’s just make this about some guy being an asshole for money, not about his particular methods of doing so.
Seriously? You’re making that argument? They do it so why can’t we? Ignoring for a moment the statement “Muslims routinely burn American flags and effigies of our presidents” (because every single one of them does it!) and ignoring the bit about 9/11 (because it may have happened in isolated places is a good reason to burn Qurans??) let’s just say that burning someone’s religious book is a dick move and is more significant culturally than a flag or political figure. But this idea of tit-for-tat is what gets me: let’s say that what you claim really happens. Shouldn’t the US, supposedly founded on the ideal of religious freedom and tolerance, be the one place where desecrating a religious book does not take place?
…”Shouldn’t the US, supposedly founded on the ideal of religious freedom and tolerance, be the one place where desecrating a religious book does not take place?”…
I couldn’t disagree more. Provided that the religious books (and icons, artifacts etc) are your own bought-and-paid-for property, and that in burning or otherwise desecrating them you are following reasonable safety rules, I can think of few things more American than a good old rip-roaring desecration.
As someone who has tangentially participated in the burning of a bible (at a gay pride march in 1977), I can assure you that the crowd reaction required police action.
I take it that said burning wasn’t your idea but I’m curious if you know what the intended reaction was. It certainly doesn’t seem like an effective way to win more people to your side.
It was the 70s. Remember bra-burning? My collective, the Fort Hill Faggots for Freedom, staged a ceremony where we burned a dollar bill, a draft card, an insurance policy, a bible and I don’t remember what else as symbols of the oppressive patriarchy. I’m sure that we would have tossed in a Quran, but in Boston in 1977, you probably couldn’t have found one unless you stole it from a museum.
The entirely gay and lesbian crowd chanted “Burn in Hell” at us while the police kept them from rushing the stage. My participation consisted of standing on the corner of the stage looking fabulous in what I would now describe as a mini-burqa crafted from an old pink tulle ballgown with trailers of stars. I don’t want to brag, but the New York Times referred to my outfit in their editorial on gay pride day events.
We pissed off the crowd and my drag made the national news. My work on this planet is done.
“My work on this planet is done.”
Sweet! Feel free to leave any time.
Good job if that was the goal I guess. I think I’m missing the symbolism of the insurance policy though.
I think I’m missing the symbolism of the insurance policy though.
Beats me. I was 19. I was more focused on ironing my tulle than planning the symbolism.
The stuff of legends. :-D
An explosion of awesome.
I’m cancelling all my insurance policies immediately in belated and somewhat misplaced solidarity.
Sounds like you were willing to go ahead and burn that “holy book” and weren’t intimidated by its adherents. Good to hear it!!!
Yeah, right…so is Fox news gonna “go live” with this desecration? Think of the ratings!!
I prefer it when people do their desecration in private, and not announce it to the world in advance….but why oh why would the world want to beat a path to that person’s door?
I’ve said it before, some people want to start a religious war. You know, the kind that historically has produced the very very worst in atrocities and massacres.
In general, NEVER listen to what ANYBODY of a given religion or faith says about the religion or faith of others who do not share their religion or faith. Ask yourself: why is this person talking to me about OTHER people’s religion? I try to politely steer them into talking of their own faith instead, as they are much more likely to actually know something about that. (But perhaps surprisingly, not always!)
Oh BTW a little OT but relevant, and perhaps not yet fully reported in the US:
That “old acquaintance” of the USA, Fidel Castro of Cuba, has knocked the Iranian President for being so down on the Jewish people.
What that old dialectical materialist says makes some sense, too:
BRILLIANT on all fronts. BRAVO! Fight the foolishness with comedy — marvelous. Praise the Lord!
Oh! Oh! Can I bring my “On the Origin of Species” to burn as well?
I can’t wait to see the screen captures from this video on protest signs and effigy burnings.
Pretty good video.
I stumbled upon the attached story from Germany that adds a whole different angle to the story.
Check it out.
The unfortunate bit is the “it will endanger our troops” complaint. As I understand it, soldiers are supposed to risk their lives to protect our freedom. We’re not supposed to limit our freedoms to protect their lives, no?
Not usually, no. If you’re exercising a freedom with no point in mind other than to provoke people against our soldiers, though, you may want to reconsider.
The Quran burning doesn’t just happen to endanger our soldiers. The Quran burning is an attempt to escalate a conflict in which our soldiers are their defense.
That’s a damn fine monster truck video. Muy fonny.
Y’all know that you can click on a user name to get to their profile page and check them out, eh?
Yes, but as on Wikipedia, I assume good faith. Having said that, I did, and yikes.
freshacconci, I do agree that the whole thing is in bad taste, and that pastor seems like a jerk. But I also remember this quote (supposed to come from Voltaire):
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
If his point is that Islam is bad, the Islamic reaction may very well do a lot to prove him right! Remember death threats over the “Mohamed cartoon” incident? Peaceful, rational people do not act like that. Remember that the major leaders of other religions generally do not advocate violence (yes, there have been a few exceptions), yet many prominent Imams have called for violence. In Iraq, the Muslims have killed more Muslims that Americans have. You can make of that what you will.
You’re not just objectively defending his freedom to speak, you’re saying he’s got a good point.
Nice try, but your slip is showing.
I have seen this touched on in some of the comments, but as far as I understand, this guy has a “congregation” of about 50. I’ll bet my balls that about over 9000 people turn up on the day with Bibles and lighter fluid.
As for Muslims burning bibles, that some have referenced, this simply reveals the existence of some very poorly educated Muslims who Allah probably isn’t very happy with. Muslims proper consider the Bible a sacred book, too. Hell, a Pakistani Muslim friend of mine sends me cards at Easter and Christmas!
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