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	<title>Comments on: Lockheed Martin sign prohibits sketching and &quot;gathering&#160;information&quot;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html</link>
	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896258</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896258</guid>
		<description>I wonder if they would mind me making a lovely oil painting of their warehouse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if they would mind me making a lovely oil painting of their warehouse.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: semiotix</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896260</link>
		<dc:creator>semiotix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896260</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Lockheed-Martin was in charge of the last census collection. Gathering of information indeed!&lt;/i&gt;

Whoa whoa whoa. They were a contractor, not in charge. I mean, a pencil company supplied the census with some pencils too, but that doesn&#039;t mean it was Eberhard Faber knocking on my door, or H&amp;R Block levying taxes on me, or whatever. 

Besides which, the census is a Good Thing. I&#039;m fine with high-tech defense companies getting involved if it distracts them from what they normally do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Lockheed-Martin was in charge of the last census collection. Gathering of information indeed!</i></p>
<p>Whoa whoa whoa. They were a contractor, not in charge. I mean, a pencil company supplied the census with some pencils too, but that doesn&#8217;t mean it was Eberhard Faber knocking on my door, or H&#038;R Block levying taxes on me, or whatever. </p>
<p>Besides which, the census is a Good Thing. I&#8217;m fine with high-tech defense companies getting involved if it distracts them from what they normally do.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896275</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896275</guid>
		<description>California Penal Code 552-555, the state code provisions cited on the sign, do not prohibit photography, sketching or the gathering of information.  Instead, these provisions authorize the posting of &quot;No Tresspassing&quot; signs on certain types of properties where the general public is accorded access, thereby making it a misdemeanor to enter, remain upon, or loiter in the immediate vicinity of any such posted property without the written permission of the owner.  Per CPC 553, these provisions of the California Penal Code expressly do not apply to &quot;the lawful use of an established and
existing right of way for public road purposes.&quot;  Indeed, the sign above does not satisfy the substantive requirements of California Penal Code 553(a), which brings into doubt its legal effectiveness in any case.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=60566611654+1+0+0&amp;WAISaction=retrieve</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>California Penal Code 552-555, the state code provisions cited on the sign, do not prohibit photography, sketching or the gathering of information.  Instead, these provisions authorize the posting of &#8220;No Tresspassing&#8221; signs on certain types of properties where the general public is accorded access, thereby making it a misdemeanor to enter, remain upon, or loiter in the immediate vicinity of any such posted property without the written permission of the owner.  Per CPC 553, these provisions of the California Penal Code expressly do not apply to &#8220;the lawful use of an established and<br />
existing right of way for public road purposes.&#8221;  Indeed, the sign above does not satisfy the substantive requirements of California Penal Code 553(a), which brings into doubt its legal effectiveness in any case.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=60566611654+1+0+0&#038;WAISaction=retrieve" rel="nofollow">http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=60566611654+1+0+0&#038;WAISaction=retrieve</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: rebus</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896280</link>
		<dc:creator>rebus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896280</guid>
		<description>I figured someone would jump on my wording. Let me fix that for you: 

Lockheed-Martin created and managed the databases that collected and now hold personal identifying information - name, address, income rate, opt. phone number, race - on every citizen in the country (as authorized by the Government in order to service the US Census.)

Is that better?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I figured someone would jump on my wording. Let me fix that for you: </p>
<p>Lockheed-Martin created and managed the databases that collected and now hold personal identifying information &#8211; name, address, income rate, opt. phone number, race &#8211; on every citizen in the country (as authorized by the Government in order to service the US Census.)</p>
<p>Is that better?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896544</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896544</guid>
		<description>Imply and deny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Imply and deny.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Church</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896308</link>
		<dc:creator>Church</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896308</guid>
		<description>&quot;... most criminals want everything to be as open and exposed as possible, not secret.&quot;

Yeah, and most companies want security via obscurity to work, too.

It doesn&#039;t work, and is even counter-productive since it leads to a false sense of security. Of course, the plus is that when it is inevitably penetrated, it&#039;s easier to cover up. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230; most criminals want everything to be as open and exposed as possible, not secret.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, and most companies want security via obscurity to work, too.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t work, and is even counter-productive since it leads to a false sense of security. Of course, the plus is that when it is inevitably penetrated, it&#8217;s easier to cover up. </p>
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		<title>By: Marcel</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896312</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896312</guid>
		<description>If it&#039;s Lockheed Martin they probably try to prevent you from taking pictures of them pouring buckets of pork down the F-35&#039;s jet engines to see how fast it burns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it&#8217;s Lockheed Martin they probably try to prevent you from taking pictures of them pouring buckets of pork down the F-35&#8242;s jet engines to see how fast it burns.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896330</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896330</guid>
		<description>I just wanted to congratulate the author on his word choice of &#039;minatory&#039;. Such a good word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wanted to congratulate the author on his word choice of &#8216;minatory&#8217;. Such a good word.</p>
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		<title>By: knoxblox</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896111</link>
		<dc:creator>knoxblox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896111</guid>
		<description>News Flash: A local group of retirees, who claimed to be &quot;plein-air&quot; painters were handcuffed and hauled off to jail today...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>News Flash: A local group of retirees, who claimed to be &#8220;plein-air&#8221; painters were handcuffed and hauled off to jail today&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: donniebnyc</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896115</link>
		<dc:creator>donniebnyc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896115</guid>
		<description>They forgot this: 

No Remembering - All Unauthorized Memories will be Confiscated!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They forgot this: </p>
<p>No Remembering &#8211; All Unauthorized Memories will be Confiscated!</p>
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		<title>By: Ugly Canuck</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896118</link>
		<dc:creator>Ugly Canuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896118</guid>
		<description>Hey you! Yeah, you!

Put that information back where it was! Right now!
Don&#039;t you make me use this!


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey you! Yeah, you!</p>
<p>Put that information back where it was! Right now!<br />
Don&#8217;t you make me use this!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: niro5</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896121</link>
		<dc:creator>niro5</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896121</guid>
		<description>They cite statutes, and they don&#039;t seem to be over stating them either:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/793.html
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000794----000-.html
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000795----000-.html
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000797----000-.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They cite statutes, and they don&#8217;t seem to be over stating them either:<br />
<a href="http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/793.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/793.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000794----000-.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000794&#8212;-000-.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000795----000-.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000795&#8212;-000-.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000797----000-.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000797&#8212;-000-.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Matt Staggs</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896123</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Staggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896123</guid>
		<description>&quot;By knowingly or unknowingly viewing this sign or installation, unauthorized individuals hereby imply consent for the application of surgery for the purpose of removing contraband neurodata, up to but not limited to immediate memories of said installation and any schematically linked semantic associations. Homeland Security mandate #25812-AAA&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;By knowingly or unknowingly viewing this sign or installation, unauthorized individuals hereby imply consent for the application of surgery for the purpose of removing contraband neurodata, up to but not limited to immediate memories of said installation and any schematically linked semantic associations. Homeland Security mandate #25812-AAA&#8221;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: niro5</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896127</link>
		<dc:creator>niro5</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896127</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t get it, are people saying spying should be legal?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t get it, are people saying spying should be legal?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ill lich</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896130</link>
		<dc:creator>ill lich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896130</guid>
		<description>Just by posting this photo you have made all of us who view it lawbreakers.  Thanks, thanks a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just by posting this photo you have made all of us who view it lawbreakers.  Thanks, thanks a lot.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: sapere_aude</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896131</link>
		<dc:creator>sapere_aude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896131</guid>
		<description>Um ... Cory, do you realize that you just posted evidence of a crime for the whole world to see?  The sign says that taking unauthorized photos is a crime.  Therefore, I would have to assume that taking unauthorized photos &lt;i&gt;of the sign&lt;/i&gt; is also a crime.  So, you just fingered Mr. Pozkanzer for committing a crime which, if we are to believe the sign, will be prosecuted.  And your post has provided the prosecution with enough evidence to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.  Perhaps you should have thought this through before posting this; or at least before publicly identifying who broke the law in order to take this photo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um &#8230; Cory, do you realize that you just posted evidence of a crime for the whole world to see?  The sign says that taking unauthorized photos is a crime.  Therefore, I would have to assume that taking unauthorized photos <i>of the sign</i> is also a crime.  So, you just fingered Mr. Pozkanzer for committing a crime which, if we are to believe the sign, will be prosecuted.  And your post has provided the prosecution with enough evidence to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.  Perhaps you should have thought this through before posting this; or at least before publicly identifying who broke the law in order to take this photo.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ugly Canuck</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896387</link>
		<dc:creator>Ugly Canuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896387</guid>
		<description>These laws actually all try to regulate and control not the information per se, but people&#039;s conduct with respect to the information: specifically, deceptive conduct with an intent to harm another, or the State.
Deceptive conduct; either in the obtaining of the info itself, or ( usually punished even more severely) the putting to such use of any information so obtained.

Where the information itself covers up a deception with intent to harm others or the State, or if the release of the information itself is incapable of harming anybody&#039;s interests, I cannot see why liability ought to result - even if deception was used in its obtainment. But perhaps the Law may not be capable of discerning such cases in advance, and prefers to err on the side of those who have legitimate secrets to keep. 

The law must aim at p0rohibiting or discouraging actually, or at least potentially, harmful conduct. And by and large, in the US and Canada, these &quot;information&quot; laws seem to. IMHO.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These laws actually all try to regulate and control not the information per se, but people&#8217;s conduct with respect to the information: specifically, deceptive conduct with an intent to harm another, or the State.<br />
Deceptive conduct; either in the obtaining of the info itself, or ( usually punished even more severely) the putting to such use of any information so obtained.</p>
<p>Where the information itself covers up a deception with intent to harm others or the State, or if the release of the information itself is incapable of harming anybody&#8217;s interests, I cannot see why liability ought to result &#8211; even if deception was used in its obtainment. But perhaps the Law may not be capable of discerning such cases in advance, and prefers to err on the side of those who have legitimate secrets to keep. </p>
<p>The law must aim at p0rohibiting or discouraging actually, or at least potentially, harmful conduct. And by and large, in the US and Canada, these &#8220;information&#8221; laws seem to. IMHO.  </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: delt664</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896133</link>
		<dc:creator>delt664</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896133</guid>
		<description>No, they are saying that photography of things that are out in the open, viewable from public places is not spying.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, they are saying that photography of things that are out in the open, viewable from public places is not spying.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896141</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896141</guid>
		<description>You can read the cited portions of U.S. code here:

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&amp;docid=Cite:+18USC793
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&amp;docid=Cite:+18USC794
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&amp;docid=Cite:+18USC795
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&amp;docid=Cite:+18USC797

None of them say &quot;you can&#039;t photograph this,&quot; unless: it is a government-owned facility and you have intent to harm the United States, or: it is a facility specially-designated by the President, like the Pentagon.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can read the cited portions of U.S. code here:</p>
<p><a href="http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&#038;docid=Cite:+18USC793" rel="nofollow">http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&#038;docid=Cite:+18USC793</a><br />
<a href="http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&#038;docid=Cite:+18USC794" rel="nofollow">http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&#038;docid=Cite:+18USC794</a><br />
<a href="http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&#038;docid=Cite:+18USC795" rel="nofollow">http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&#038;docid=Cite:+18USC795</a><br />
<a href="http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&#038;docid=Cite:+18USC797" rel="nofollow">http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&#038;docid=Cite:+18USC797</a></p>
<p>None of them say &#8220;you can&#8217;t photograph this,&#8221; unless: it is a government-owned facility and you have intent to harm the United States, or: it is a facility specially-designated by the President, like the Pentagon.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Smith</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896909</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896909</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I wonder if they would mind me making a lovely oil painting of their warehouse.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;
I am sure they would, but what would they do about me &lt;b&gt;remembering&lt;/b&gt; the appearance of their warehouse?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I wonder if they would mind me making a lovely oil painting of their warehouse.</i><br />
I am sure they would, but what would they do about me <b>remembering</b> the appearance of their warehouse?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896142</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896142</guid>
		<description>What exactly makes you think it&#039;s out in the open and viewable from a public place? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What exactly makes you think it&#8217;s out in the open and viewable from a public place? </p>
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		<title>By: Chris Tucker</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896147</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Tucker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896147</guid>
		<description>I am thinking that this particular installation is a defense plant.

And as such, yes, it really IS a federal crime to photograph, sketch or otherwise &quot;gather information&quot; about anything inside the fenceline.

The close up image of the warning sign that is outside the fenceline is permissible, and as there is nothing visible in that particular image other than a corner of a building, a road trees and grass, there has been no transmission of sensitive information to a foreign power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am thinking that this particular installation is a defense plant.</p>
<p>And as such, yes, it really IS a federal crime to photograph, sketch or otherwise &#8220;gather information&#8221; about anything inside the fenceline.</p>
<p>The close up image of the warning sign that is outside the fenceline is permissible, and as there is nothing visible in that particular image other than a corner of a building, a road trees and grass, there has been no transmission of sensitive information to a foreign power.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896915</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896915</guid>
		<description>&quot;Gathering of information&quot;: please turn your brain off and don&#039;t think of anything, don&#039;t remember anything.  If we find out that you have remembered anything, this is punishable by law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Gathering of information&#8221;: please turn your brain off and don&#8217;t think of anything, don&#8217;t remember anything.  If we find out that you have remembered anything, this is punishable by law.</p>
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		<title>By: delt664</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896150</link>
		<dc:creator>delt664</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896150</guid>
		<description>ANAL, but lets look at 18 USC.

793 - 
Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting
the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the
information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation.......

794-
Whoever, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be
used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a
foreign nation

795-
Whenever, in the interests of national defense, the President defines certain vital military and naval installations or equipment as requiring protection against the general dissemination of information relative thereto.....

797-
Defines the penalty for section 795


So the question is if the location in question is covered by section 795, and it looks like it is:

(f) Any commercial establishment engaged in the development or manufacture of classified military or naval arms, munitions, equipment, designs, ships, aircraft, or vessels for the United States Army, Navy, or Air Force.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ANAL, but lets look at 18 USC.</p>
<p>793 &#8211;<br />
Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting<br />
the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the<br />
information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>794-<br />
Whoever, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be<br />
used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a<br />
foreign nation</p>
<p>795-<br />
Whenever, in the interests of national defense, the President defines certain vital military and naval installations or equipment as requiring protection against the general dissemination of information relative thereto&#8230;..</p>
<p>797-<br />
Defines the penalty for section 795</p>
<p>So the question is if the location in question is covered by section 795, and it looks like it is:</p>
<p>(f) Any commercial establishment engaged in the development or manufacture of classified military or naval arms, munitions, equipment, designs, ships, aircraft, or vessels for the United States Army, Navy, or Air Force.</p>
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		<title>By: DreadJester</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896153</link>
		<dc:creator>DreadJester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896153</guid>
		<description>I agree Niro5.  It&#039;s not as though this is any new item or practice.  For decades military bases have had these exact same worded signs all around areas they house equipment in.  Why are they there??  Because we have military secrets inside those areas that we don&#039;t want to leak out to the other countries or peoples that might use it against us.  What military secrets you ask??  Well just about every piece of military equipment has some parts and configurations that are considered classified or more within the military.  

Just as a for instance, if a tank was all that stood between you and an enemy would you want the enemy to know all they had to do was shove a banana in the tailpipe to shut down the tank?  Now granted, I&#039;m exaggerating there but experts in nearly any field can look and something and figure out what does what.  This is why the sign is there.  Granted, this is at Lockheed-Martin but they do create many things for the military.

So yes, it may seem crazy but there is a reason for it and it&#039;s not something that&#039;s just started up after 9-11.  This has been standard practice for decades.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree Niro5.  It&#8217;s not as though this is any new item or practice.  For decades military bases have had these exact same worded signs all around areas they house equipment in.  Why are they there??  Because we have military secrets inside those areas that we don&#8217;t want to leak out to the other countries or peoples that might use it against us.  What military secrets you ask??  Well just about every piece of military equipment has some parts and configurations that are considered classified or more within the military.  </p>
<p>Just as a for instance, if a tank was all that stood between you and an enemy would you want the enemy to know all they had to do was shove a banana in the tailpipe to shut down the tank?  Now granted, I&#8217;m exaggerating there but experts in nearly any field can look and something and figure out what does what.  This is why the sign is there.  Granted, this is at Lockheed-Martin but they do create many things for the military.</p>
<p>So yes, it may seem crazy but there is a reason for it and it&#8217;s not something that&#8217;s just started up after 9-11.  This has been standard practice for decades.</p>
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		<title>By: Ugly Canuck</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896158</link>
		<dc:creator>Ugly Canuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896158</guid>
		<description>So..it seems to me that it is not the simple or mere possession of information which is forbidden: but an intent concerning its use is required before such possession (or obtainment) of information becomes liable to punishment.
Unless the mere possession of the information can ground a reasonable inference as to the possessor&#039;s intent, there can be no offense in merely possessing that info - in your mind, at any rate.
Not a &quot;thought crime&#039; - quite, or yet, it seems to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So..it seems to me that it is not the simple or mere possession of information which is forbidden: but an intent concerning its use is required before such possession (or obtainment) of information becomes liable to punishment.<br />
Unless the mere possession of the information can ground a reasonable inference as to the possessor&#8217;s intent, there can be no offense in merely possessing that info &#8211; in your mind, at any rate.<br />
Not a &#8220;thought crime&#8217; &#8211; quite, or yet, it seems to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Ugly Canuck</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896163</link>
		<dc:creator>Ugly Canuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896163</guid>
		<description>It could be that the only way to make spying truly obsolete and useless would be to abolish all secrecy, everywhere.

http://www.cryptome.org/

True enough: if it&#039;s all in the open, who needs to spy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It could be that the only way to make spying truly obsolete and useless would be to abolish all secrecy, everywhere.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cryptome.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cryptome.org/</a></p>
<p>True enough: if it&#8217;s all in the open, who needs to spy?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-897189</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-897189</guid>
		<description>I am sure glad that so many people here have no problem with this sign. It means there is still common sense in this country. Lockheed-Martain is a defense contractor, and makes stuff for the military of this country and several of its allies. Of course it is illegal to Photograph, sketch, or gather information. I&#039;ll tell you this, even for employees, it is illegal to photograph inside the premesis. No, you cannot take a picture of a plant you think is neat, a co-worker for your cell phone picture contact, or whatever. No photography inside of the fences. This shouldn&#039;t surprise anyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am sure glad that so many people here have no problem with this sign. It means there is still common sense in this country. Lockheed-Martain is a defense contractor, and makes stuff for the military of this country and several of its allies. Of course it is illegal to Photograph, sketch, or gather information. I&#8217;ll tell you this, even for employees, it is illegal to photograph inside the premesis. No, you cannot take a picture of a plant you think is neat, a co-worker for your cell phone picture contact, or whatever. No photography inside of the fences. This shouldn&#8217;t surprise anyone.</p>
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		<title>By: DreadJester</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896168</link>
		<dc:creator>DreadJester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896168</guid>
		<description>Also note that the sign says absolutely nothing about video.  Most likely because when the signs wording was drafted video cameras were not in widespread public use due to cost and size.  Further proof that this is a decades old sign.  Wonder if you could take video of the site and argue that it&#039;s not mentioned on the sign.  lol  Anyone wanna give it a try??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also note that the sign says absolutely nothing about video.  Most likely because when the signs wording was drafted video cameras were not in widespread public use due to cost and size.  Further proof that this is a decades old sign.  Wonder if you could take video of the site and argue that it&#8217;s not mentioned on the sign.  lol  Anyone wanna give it a try??</p>
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		<title>By: niro5</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/lockheed-martin-sign.html#comment-896169</link>
		<dc:creator>niro5</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-896169</guid>
		<description>Good point, can I have your ATM Pin and mother&#039;s maiden name?  I would hate to have to look for it.

Sure, I would love to live in a world where we didn&#039;t need secrets, or armies for that matter.  But we do not live in that world yet, and pretending we do won&#039;t get us there any faster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point, can I have your ATM Pin and mother&#8217;s maiden name?  I would hate to have to look for it.</p>
<p>Sure, I would love to live in a world where we didn&#8217;t need secrets, or armies for that matter.  But we do not live in that world yet, and pretending we do won&#8217;t get us there any faster.</p>
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