Mich Ass't. Attorney General cyberbullies gay student body president

Goblin

I think this incident says just as much about the actual A.G Mike Cox as it does at Shirvell. A.G. Cox is willing to keep Shirvell on staff even after he blatantly violated written standards of civil behavior. Both of them should be fired; Shirvell for conduct unbecoming and Cox for failure to comply with the civil standards of decency expected from office.

BongoBen

Sure, we can all see the humor in the behavior of this buffoon, but there is also something gravely dark and sinister happening here: He is talking just like the Nazis did of the Jews in 1930s and 40s Germany–making a “different” segment of the population into monsters with statements of much exaggeration, hyperbole and outright lies. Sounds like just a wacko, but look at what happened in Germany after tales just as ridiculous were spread about Jews. He should be prosecuted now for Hate Crimes, or at least slander.

B. Graham,
Mpls., MN

Brainspore

The difference being that the Nazis didn’t accuse their opponents of being Nazis.

NuOrder72

Forget my earlier post…duh!

Anonymous

There are currently two petitions on Change.org’s website regarding this matter. I’d suggest fellow Michiganders to sign it, even though Mike Cox probably doesn’t give a damn.

http://www.change.org/petitions/search?search=michigan+cox

JDavid

Well there ya have it – this is the kind of person who gets “Assistant Attorney General” positions since we started celebrating mediocrity in this country. He speaks like an idiot and clearly thinks like one too. Public servant? Really??

That aside…

I fear that more of these types of shenanigans are coming, and worse. I know we all love our freedoms, and most of us know the moral limits – but it’s a free card for some to marginalize and slander people under a “right”. Left to their own devices, people like this overstep that boundary of good sense – and it’s becoming more and more prevalent.

The question is what to do about it. I surely don’t know…it’s a quandary for sure. Do we all lose our dissenting right because of fucking morons like this?

Curt

I was impressed that this guy could actually say his point, however absurd it was.

If this guys showed up on a Fox News show, he wouldn’t have been able to get two words in.

Anonymous

ON the contrary, I’m sure Fox would think he’s a hero

Anonymous

Cue the startling revelation that Shrivell pays for gay sex in 1… 2…. 3…

Anonymous

I don’t have any problem with homosexuals.

But damn i hate Closet Cases like this moron, Hoover and Roy Cohn.

Quothz

No offense, people, but Christ, have most of you gone insane?

Shirvell is a total, drooling idiot whom we should all despise. His sort of mouth-breathing, reactionary, bilious spew is a blight upon the earth. I hope he chokes on his own hatred.

But the correct way to fight free speech is with more free speech. Don’t whine to his God-damned boss, don’t try to get him disbarred, don’t try to bend the laws to suppress what he says. Alla you who suggest such things ought’a be ashamed. We don’t do that. This is in America, where we are allowed to present our beliefs to the public, no matter how ridiculous or unpopular they are, because sometimes we’re right (Shirvell is not). You do not try to censor speech merely because you find it abhorrent. You don’t do that. You do not.

You want to speak out against religion in the deep south? Speak out against the Patriot Act? Take the stance of your choice on abortion, gay rights, immigrant rights, or whatever other issues hold your attention? Then by golly you’d better let this idiot have his say, too, and not try to punish him for engaging in free speech.

I’m going to send a letter of my own. Mine will applaud Cox for staying true to his office, upholding both the law and spirit of America by not firing that sniveling fount of douchebaggery. Mine will praise him for fighting free speech with his own free speech, calling Shirvell immature. That’s the kind of judgment I wish every public official showed.

Antinous / Moderator

But the correct way to fight free speech is with more free speech. Don’t whine to his God-damned boss, don’t try to get him disbarred, don’t try to bend the laws to suppress what he says.

That is free speech, o mindlessly dogmatic one. His salary is paid by taxpayer dollars. Of course, he should be fired.
- sgnp
  
  In addition, from what I’ve read above, most people calling for Cox to remove Shirvell aren’t concerned about suppressing Shirvell’s statements. They’re concerned that his public, negative, near-pathological focus on a single individual of differing beliefs in his off-hours as being a indicator that he can’t be trusted to be impartial in his duties as the Assistant Attorney General of Michigan. I’m sure they’d be more than happy to afford him the same latitude as Fred Phelps if he weren’t working for the taxpayers.
  
  Of course, as LILemming alluded to, hopefully Shirvell never took time to update his blog from work. Even if it was during a lunch break, using state equipment and/or access for this sort of thing would be unacceptable.
marilove

Quothz: Harassment, stalking, cyber-bulling, and threatening someone is not protected speech. It will never be protected speech.

Don’t whine to his God-damned boss, don’t try to get him disbarred,

And why not? He is an Asst. Attorney General, which means he represents the people of his state (at least in his own small way). THE PEOPLE have a say in whether or not they want a stalker in a public service position. Hell, even if it were a private company, we, living in a capitalistic society, would have every right to demand that he be fired, or we won’t give them our business.

But. That’s all moot, since what he is doing is, in short, harassment and stalking. Which is not acceptable. NOR LEGAL. This man should be ridiculed, fired, prosecuted, and sued. Not given a pat on the head and told, “Good boy! Good job, there, claiming the right to free speech when in reality you’re just stalking, harassing, and threatening someone! GOOD JOB!”

Are you for real?

News-flash: Free speech doesn’t mean you can say whatever you want, whenever you want. THREATS AND HARASSMENT ARE NOT FREE SPEECH. Neither is stalking.

Anonymous

Am I the only one who thinks it’s extremely ironic that Shirvell’s boss’ name is Mike Cox?

Anonymous

Hoot, hoot, hoot!!! Discerning, you are!!!

Yoda

IronEdithKidd

Well, here’s today’s latest on this evolving story right from our lovely local “paper”.

This assistant AG doesn’t in any way, shape or form represent manstream Michiganders. He is stalking the UofM student body president. It’s gross. Thus, the restraining order that’s expected to be issued on Monday.

SamSam

OMG. http://chris-armstrong-watch.blogspot.com/ is quite literally the funniest thing I’ve read all week. If it weren’t certain that it was this guy, I’m be sure it was a spoof.

The whole blog is a series of SHOCKING REVELATIONS about the first openly “gay” student president (“gay” is always in scare quotes).

OUTRAGE ALERT: Armstrong Invites U of M Freshmen to Join the Homosexual Lifestyle

Although Armstrong made his recruitment pitch with a “wink and a nod” on Thursday evening, he and his fellow radical homosexual activists have been planning a much more EXPLICIT recruitment effort for tonight, September 4, 2010, following the U of M football team’s home-opener.

As depicted in the Facebook (FB) screenshot above, the public event, “GAE Rush: Welcome Week Party,” was created by Jacob Presser-Taylor, Ron Ketelhut, Leah Goldmann, Rachel McLoughlin, Evan Nichols, Matt Hillyer, and Alex Serwer – all of whom share a house with Armstrong.

It seems that the aim of this “party” is to liquor-up underage freshmen and promote homosexual activity. In fact, the event’s title is meant to purposely mislead freshmen. First of all, there is no such fraternity/sorority at U of M or anywhere else called GAE (Gamma Alpha Epsilon). Nonetheless, the “brothers and sisters” of “GAE” encourage freshmen to stop-by for a “RUSH party like no other: plenty of sloppy bbq, keg standing, chest bumping, and grunting.” Armstrong’s housemates then clarify that what they mean is that there will be “plenty of light hors d’oeuvres, Cosmo sipping, jump hugging, and squealing!”

The whole blog is this guy snooping on Facebook, finding pictures of Chris hugging other guys showing “SCANDALOUS revelations” that he might have a “secret boyfriend,” pictures of police breaking up a college party and saying how the feds RAIDED the gays, egtc etc.

Oh. Wait. I have just found the BEST post evar. You have to read it yourselves:

OUTRAGE ALERT: Armstrong Engages in Sexual Escapades in Churches and Children’s Playgrounds

rrh

No, this is clearly the best:
http://chris-armstrong-watch.blogspot.com/2010/07/bombshell-armstrong-hosted-gay-orgy-at.html

Because he cites the Merriam-Webster definition of “shenanigans.”

Eric Ragle

Look, I’m not trying to generalize all Christians here but when this guy said he was a Christian, I was thinking to myself, “yep, and that’s another reason why I’m an atheist.” Yikes. There are extremists among us.

Anonymous

So here we have a public servant harassing, stalking, and persecuting a private citizen (just because you’re president of the student body at a college doesn’t mean you’re not a private citizen). Where oh where are the ultra-conservatives who always scream, “Jack-booted thugs. Who will protect the innocent people from the government?”

Hello, tea party? Hello, Republican party? Hello?

I think people should follow Shirvill to ensure that he does not use one single minute of work time or a single resource that Michigan owns to harass Chris Armstrong.

Come on, someone in the AG’s office has to hate this guy.

EdgeWiseInAnnArbor

I got Death Threats because of this guy. I organized a talk at a local Catholic Church on Instant Run-off Voting and invited a pro-IRV, Catholic State Senator to speak, who happened to be pro-choice. He went on a Catholic Radio station and announced that the talk was about abortion, and that the church was endorsing being pro-choice about abortion. He gave out names, addresses, and phone numbers. I got a number of death threats. He organized a protest of a different church’s first holy communion which caused the clergy to cancel the talk (we rescheduled for another venue). I didn’t press charges because the priest was a lawyer and said he’d lodge a protest and ensure that Andrew Shirvell (then a law student) would never become a member of the bar. It made the local paper, and David Neiwert’s blog. See here: http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2004/02/how-to-fight.html

optuser

Wow. In the middle of a browsing session on CAW (caw! caw!) blogspot gave me a message “invited readers only.”

I watched the AC360 interview on the CNN website. I saw a couple of cuts, but what was left out of the interview was Shirvell’s accusation about Armstrong being a racist. I dug around the blogspot site and found something about the Order of Angells? Shirvell accused Armstrong of joining a secret “elitist, racist” organization.

Anybody on the UofM campus care to chime in about this Skull and Bones of the mitten state?

The last things I was reading on the site before I got booted was how Armstrong came from a rich family and basically how rich kids don’t deserve to hold office. Shirvell is really worked up about this guy… frothing…

Whatever. The above comments about the Catholic church seal it. I, too, joked this guy was in the closet. Apologies to the entire gay community. This guy is more like a stalker pedo.

knoxblox

Well, never was involved with public service, probably never will be. I was one of a few in my high school who was invited to Boys State, but declined. I’d rather paint portraits.

However, my nephew has been heavily involved in local politics, working full-time in the benefit of the local labor unions, before he headed out to D.C. this summer. He’s a smart young man, and seems to be suited to outlasting the patience of the Doublethinkers. Here’s to hoping he can do some good, and help derail the crazy train.

Rick.

I would love to hear about this guy’s adventures in Narnia. Man, is he ever inside that closet.

optuser

Okay I found something about Armstrong’s “racism”:

At the assemblyâ€™s first meeting of the fall 2010 semester, Shirvell made a public comment to the Assembly, calling for Armstrongâ€™s resignation due to his involvement in Order of Angell, a senior honor society. The society has been criticized for using Native American artifacts in its meetings and rituals in the past. In 2007, the group â€” formerly known as Michiguama â€” changed its name and began publishing a list of its members to the public in an effort to be more transparent.

http://www.michigandaily.com/content/armstrong-says-he-will-not-back-down-criticism

Yeah, THAT’S racist.

loquat

It is not a “freedom of speech” constitutional rights issue when it comes to words exchanged from/ one citizen about another. Yes, we have laws that protect people from slander or harassment, but in this instance, it’s one seriously disturbing guy who not only is entitled to his opinion but uses that entitlement to espouse toxic “speech” about another person.

Wherein he is violating laws against stalking and harassment, concerned citizens have every right to demand his termination because he appears to have poor judgment and likely cannot perform his duties in a fair, impartial and competent manner. He clearly lacks skills which are essential to being an ADA, not to mention having lost the confidence of his office and fellow humankind.

He can say whatever the hell he wants, he just shouldn’t get to work in the public interest. Whatever that is..

Anonymous

Give it 6 to 12 months and there are going to be stories that thus insane assistant AG is infact gay.

Typical right wing nutjob tactics… using low-life tactics to attack your opponent for doing “disgusting” things and hiding behind free speech as your right to be able to do it, and then we all find out that they themselves were also involved in these same type of actions that they were villifying.

6 to 12 months and all this is going to blow up.

Anonymous

Watching that set off my gaydar alarms…someone needs to sit down with him, tell him that it’s ok to be queer and that attacking other homosexuals is not concealing his own orientation.

MrJM

Mark et. al.,

“AG Cox: Andrew Shirvell has been suspended” – http://www.michigandaily.com/content/u-president-community-supports-msa-president-chris-armstrong

Antinous / Moderator

Ding dong.

Anonymous

Interesting that the approach Anderson Cooper takes with this person is different than he takes with any other homophobic pundit he invites to his show.

secretlab

People who are familiar with the affect and behavior of Asperger’s syndrome people may notice some quite familiar things about Mr. Shirvell. From my experience, the speech patterns, distracted and unfixed gaze, limited empathy for Chris Armstrong and “restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests” (from the Wiki article) seem to fit this autism spectrum disorder well.

knoxblox

Wow, I thought I spotted that, but was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt because he was shrugging his eyebrows so hard.
However, maybe that could fit into the “restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests”.
bklynchris

Wow there little buddy. I hope to shit you are not implying that this hateful man’s virulent homophobia is a result of Asperger’s/ASD? I felt like he was totally medicated. Even if he does have an ASD, that does not define his ugliness. Saying as much implies that all people who have ASD are significantly more likely to be homophobes than the neurotypical population.

Could it be that if he does have an ASD, and as a result suffered much merciless teasing that at best all his fellow troglodytes could come up with is calling him gay which in turn made him hate gay men as way to identify with his attackers?

Just please be careful how you decide to define a sub-population that you are not a member of or closely related to, as if you define them in the pejorative that would potentially make you a bigot.

abulafia

I admire the forbearance of the american people when it comes to the Westboro Baptist Church, it must take a lot to admit that those morons have a 1st Amendment right to say what they like.

However, Andrew Shirvell is a public servant, and as such, his ability to do his job must be called into question for this ridiculous behaviour. I also agree with Goblin, the AG should walk the plank too, for not firing Shirvell.

Oh yeah, about that river in Egypt………

optuser

Okay okay, one last link about this (Armstrong being “racist”).

Apparently the UofM College Democrats had their organizational panties in a bunch about Order of Angell:

http://www.michigandaily.com/content/college-dems-criticizes-msa-president-joining-order-angell

â€œUMCD endorsed (Armstrongâ€™s) candidacy just over a month ago and campaigned on his behalf, in the hope that he would advance progressive ideals on campus and build a more inclusive community through his work in MSA,â€ College Democrats chair Brendan Campbell said in the statement. â€œWhile we hope that we will be able to continue to work with him to achieve progressive goals on campus, we condemn his decision to join Order of Angell and would not have given him our endorsement if we knew he was prepared to join the group.”

Jebus.

travtastic

You’re all going to be kicking yourself in 30 years when the Militant Homosexuals have turned us all gay and driven humanity to the brink of extinction.

Ever see Children of Men? It’s a documentary.

Anonymous

Sorry excuse for a human being.

Times like this I wish I had super powers, so I could terrorize these bullies.

cavalaxis

God, can you imagine being a gay defendant in this ADA’s court room? Can you ever even HOPE to get a fair trial?

Also, how much do I love Anderson Cooper for just being professional and unrelenting and suave as all get out.

lasttide

I’m sorry, but this guy’s blog is comedy gold. I laugh every time he uses quotes psuedo-ironically.

marilove

Also, I think it’s important to mention the ramifications of bullying.

4th (known) Gay Teen Suicide in September

Earlier this summer, 3 young gay men committed suicide (not all were teens)

GLBTQ teens are four times more likely to commit suicide than their straight peers.

This isn’t just some fucking abstract discussion about free speech. This is about a real human being who is being stalked and harassed by an Asst. Attorney general just because the student is gay. There is no other reason why this student is being stalked and harassed. None. This is, indeed, the very definition of what a hate crime is. And yet some people think he shouldn’t (at the very, very least) be fired?

ROSSINDETROIT

Mike Cox (R) says he can’t fire the guy or shut him up. My first reaction is ‘there ought to be a law’ because this is outrageous. OTOH, if there was ‘a law’ how many other people’s speech would it affect?

Karl Jones

Michigan Attorney General’s office:

miag@michigan.gov

Here’s what I wrote:

Dear Attorney General Cox,

I’m writing to express my concern and sadness regarding Andrew Shirvell and his harassment (I believe that’s a reasonable interpretation) of Chris Armstrong.

I’m neither a Michigan resident (I’m an Minnesotan), nor gay, nor active in either gay or anti-gay activities. But from what I’m seeing on the Anderson Cooper show, Shirvell is going too far — way too far — with his anti-gay activism. This looks like a ill-advised, mean-spirited witch hunt, not an effort to better society.

Gay flag with swastika superimposed? That’s neither funny, nor subtle, nor helpful. It’s outrageously offensive at best; some might see a very sick mind behind such a symbol.
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/09/30/mich-asst-attorney-g.html

Regards,
Karl Jones

ROSSINDETROIT

Maybe the best resolution for this is to let Shirvell be a d-nozzle on TV as much as he wants and make a fool of himself. After all, if it wasn’t for him I wouldn’t know who Chris Armstrong was.

piminnowcheez

What makes this interview so deeply weird to me is how utterly un-self-aware Shirvell is. Not only does he not understand why his actions are wrong, he doesn’t seem to understand that they’re *unusual*. He just sits there and defends himself to Cooper as if he has no idea why anyone would think the whole thing was worth a televised interview.

And his blog is stunning in the same way — forget free speech, he should be fired for incompetence. The ranting on his blog is so sputteringly extreme, he sounds like a high-school kid, not an employed adult with a professional degree. This guy has serious emotional/developmental problems, and he doesn’t even see it.

I truly can’t believe he works in a state attorney general’s office. Dumbfounding.

iphinome

Sounds like he’d fit in at a Tea party, or the Baen bar. Same difference.

Antinous / Moderator

Note from the gay side: We don’t want him.

kc0bbq

Whether or not you want him, he’s yours, even if he’s in the deepest closet ever. Better start working on a gay cure so you can kick him off the team. :)

When he comes out of the closet he’s going to try just as hard to be gay, whatever he decides that is. It won’t be pretty. Will it be insensitive to laugh at him when it happens?
Anonymous

Note from the religious side:>/strong> we don’t want him either, we’ve got enough of his type already.

Unfortunately, Antinous, neither of us gets a choice…

Anonymous

In the words of Adrian Cronauer:
You are in more dire need of a blowjob than any white man in history.
(also I always read Shrivell, must be Freudian)

Anonymous

It’s really awesome that they apparently started making Mr. Show again.

Anonymous

Pee-wee Herman and Andrew Shirvell: separated at birth?

Anonymous

I’ve just reported his blog http://chris-armstrong-watch.blogspot.com/ as SPAM… (just click report in the top bar of BLOGGER)

llazy8

Tried the links to the blog and got an error message that only registered followers of it were allowed. You think you got him? I didn’t even get to read about the scandalous sex in church playgrounds! Anyone who can get at these pages, please screenshoot and repost, this was what I was going to read tonight, and now it’s all locked up.
hassenpfeffer

Thanks, Anon, for the tip about reporting hate speech. I’m as pro-First Amendment as it gets, but I’m also beyond wary and weary of public servants who encourage hatred and persecution of “The Other.”

redesigned

I’m appalled that the AG has such a poor understanding of the law that he thinks stalking, libel/slander, and personally targeting someone with hate speech is acceptable and falls under free speech. Fire them both and get someone in office that will protect the rights of the people they are supposed to represent.

Also, the blog is now open only to invited members…

Anonymous

ever heard the famous shakespear quote “me thinks thou dost protesteth too much?’…if ever there were a case where that better applied, i doubt it!…this guy is a raving “closet case”,…and that’s why he’s so upset,…and take it from me,…i suffer from mental illness,…and this guy is definatly mentally ill,…takes one to know one!,…he needs to get help before he hurts someone,…you’d think his parents or loved ones would tell him what an ass-hole he looks like!…please, get help!,…and concentate on trying to help others,…the gay college student is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!

mdh

exactly. well said sir.

txhoudini

So the story involves an openly gay man, a closeted self-hating gay man and an Attorney General named Mike Cox?

Nope, not a dream.

Anonymous

I suspect if Mr. Shirvell really could have his way he would be hitting Chris Armstrong over the head with a club, dragging him to a cave, playing some Tom Jones and putting the fear of Christianity right into Mr. Armstrong.

Ugly Canuck

Anon #128: Tom Jones?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOArsNMVqGg

Yeah, I suppose I can see it.

Jane-o

The university seems to see it more than a freedom of speech issue…

They banned Shirvell two weeks ago:

“Shirvell is prohibited from stepping foot on the U-M campus, university officials confirmed this afternoon. Diane Brown, a campus police spokeswoman, said Shirvell was read a trespass warning on Sept. 14, meaning he is banned from campus.”

And the dean:

â€œThe University of Michigan stands behind our communityâ€™s value of expecting respect,â€ Laura Blake Jones, dean of students, said in a press release. â€œWe continue to take the situation very seriously. Many of us have been working behind the scenes on this situation since spring.â€

Also did you guys know that Mike Cox is running for governor of Michigan? While he is a conservative reactionary, does anyone know if he’s also a religious nut like Shrivell?

The Mudshark

WTF is wrong with people?

Lobster

I read “light hors d’oeuvres” and now I want bacon. Preferably not wrapped around anything fancy.

bjacques

Concern troll is concerned. Cue Quothz’s justification, on the grounds of tolerance and freedom of speech, for targeting a specific individual, in 3…2…1…

piminnowcheez

The Andrew Shirvell spoof twitter feed is most entertaining:

http://twitter.com/andrewshirveii

Sekino

It really begs the question: Are there so few intelligent, rational people who want to become public servants/politicians that such idiots and deranged people somehow make it?? I suspect that most employers wouldn’t hire/keep someone if they’d find their obsessive, creepy stalking web site.

Also, how is this NOT sexual harassment??

Lucifer

it’s not sexual harassment because they’re not working for the same people. It’s just harassment.
- redesigned
  
  @Lucifer – you don’t have to have the same employer for it to be sexual harassment.
knoxblox

I think the reason so few intelligent and rational people want to run for office is that they just don’t have the patience to deal with idiots like this day-in and day-out.
Orwellian-styled Doublethink (antithetical to cognitive dissonance) has become so ingrained in politics that the depression arising from dealing with these kinds of people is, in my assumption, extremely emotionally draining — at a level that’s akin to working at the lowest levels of the service industry. I really have respect for the public servants who are truly trying to do good, but have to endure this kind of thought process in their co-workers.

In a related issue, I’d really love to have a peek at Obama’s dental records from the beginning and the end of his presidential term, just to see how much he’s ground his teeth down over time.
- frankieboy
  
  True that knoxblox, you seem to have a clue about what it’s like. But what to do about it? People of good will, get involved for Christ’s sake! It’s not that fucking hard. If this moron can get into a position of authority, then you can too. So many people don’t care enough to do something. Circulate petitions, get on the ballot, get your ass in office. And when you get there, DO GOOD THINGS!!

LILemming

Jeepers, I hope Mr. Shirvell hasn’t been updating his blog during working hours.

Cowicide

OK! OK! Andrew Shirvell, we thoroughly believe you’re gay now! You can stop with the signature, closeted, self-loathing, homosexual theatrics!

Enough already! There’s no question to any of us that you “secretly” want to be gimped in the basement of a downtown bath house now.

Anonymous

http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164–244118–,00.html
An interesting correlation here.

cavalaxis

Clearly I need caffeine. AGA not ADA. ~facepalm~

Anonymous

His gay is showing clearly.

Quothz

I am shocked at the replies. Seriously! This guy has done nothing but spit bile at someone for marginal political activities. He’s wrong by any human reckoning, but fired? Prosecuted?!? Jeepers.

What I’m hearing is that you believe people should rally together to punish those who make unpopular political statements. If they’re public servants, well, then so much the easier to punish them. Never mind that it was once highly unpopular to argue for civil rights for minorities, or give rights to gays, or in some places to oppose slavery. Now that we’re enlightened, we can do whatever it takes to hurt someone whose views we don’t like, is that what I’m hearing?

What you guys don’t seem to understand is that the next cause that’s offensive to right-minded people, insane, and unbecoming of a whatever may be your cause. Do you want to be fired or locked up for printing a blog about how much of an idiot Glen Beck is because enough “reasonable” people find it offensive and immature?

If this guy does his job adequately, then he shouldn’t be fired for his political speech in his off-time, however abhorrent it may be. The public trust of a civil servant is that he does his job correctly; we don’t trust that he’s right-minded folk like you and I. That sort of thinking is sailing into verrrry dangerous waters.

If he’s guilty of defamation, there’s civil penalties available. I dunno what Michigan law is like in that regard. But cyberbullying and harassment? Nonsense; he’s made, to my knowledge, no threat nor incitement, he’s just spewed bilious, sophomoric, drivel about one guy who is, however marginally, a political figure. He doesn’t present a clear and present danger, just clear and present stupid.

Again, Shirvell is an obsessive, vomitous little pissant who should’ve shut his trap long ago. But you reactionaries who want to get him fired and prosecuted are worse. You’re trying to destroy yet another civil liberty over a stupid, stupid cause. If we weaken civil liberties every time someone uses them to be an idiot, we won’t have them when someone needs them to be a genius.

Antinous / Moderator

Perhaps you missed this point, but the US Constitution is the product of a war to redress non-representative government. The principle point of freedom of speech is to be able to change government. This asshole is a government employee, yet not an elected one. He can’t be voted out except by forcing his bosses to fire him. That is the free and democratic way of dealing with this.

It would appear that your interpretation of the principle involved is: assholes get free speech, everybody else shut up.
- Quothz
  
  “This asshole is a government employee, yet not an elected one. He can’t be voted out except by forcing his bosses to fire him. That is the free and democratic way of dealing with this. ”
  
  So. . . what you’re saying is that anti-gays should rally to have gay people dismissed from government jobs because their beliefs are abhorrent to them? That’s the free and democratic way, right?
  
  Wrong, of course. We have to accept the notion that, in a free society, one essential responsibility is to preserve everyone’s freedoms. The only way to do this is to accept that the exercise of freedom is not something to be punished by every means that may become available.
  
  Write to newspapers, write in blogs, talk to people, vilify this asshole for his views. Tell anyone who’ll listen that he got his stupid at a two-for-one sale. But don’t try to punish him through the system, because that’s antithetical to the nature of a free society.
  
  Now, to respond to redesigned:
  “This guy has show up outside his house and tried to video tape him…He has been stalking him both physically and online.”
  
  Photography in public is a right. Stalking is a crime, but a very specific one that he doesn’t seem to be doing. Comparing people to Nazis is personally offensive to me but is protected speech. Protesting is protected speech.
  
  He’s a moron and an asshole, but he’s allowed to be. If you start chipping away at his rights, you’re chipping away at mine, and those of every American, present and future. It’s a can of worms that’s best left closed. These rights are important, even when they’re being exercised by the scum of the earth.
  - SophiesChoice
    
    “So. . . what you’re saying is that anti-gays should rally to have gay people dismissed from government jobs because their beliefs are abhorrent to them? That’s the free and democratic way, right?”
    
    Umm, that’s kind of the way the system has worked for a very long time. Ever hear of “Don’t ask, don’t tell?” Minorities have a more difficult time getting into political offices to begin with, simply because they are a minority. They have to be twice as good as their opponent to make it past all the hate mongers that try to prevent their election. So, yeah, it already happens.
    
    This guy does have a right to freedom of speech, but using it to harass and verbally abuse someone is simply wrong. I must confess I have no clue what, exactly, an Attorney General does, to say nothing of an Assistant Attorney General, but would I like to be the one to pay his salary? I think not. As it is not an elected position, the people cannot vote him out of office. How are the citizens of Michigan supposed to tell their public officials that this behavior is unacceptable from their representative?
  - Anonymous
    
    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
    
    This guarantees that the government can not limit your right to say what you want to say no matter how douchey it may be. An employer is a different matter, even if the employer is part of the government because you are being paid to do a job and a job is a privilege not a right. If you walked up to your boss and called him an asshole while you were off hours, would you claim your 1st amendment rights were being violated if he fired you the next morning? No reasonable person would because you were still allowed to SAY he was an asshole, the government did not try to physically stop you or make you pay more taxes, or threaten you for saying he was an asshole.
    The speech protection you are talking about is having your speech not come without any consequences at all. The only place that currently exists, sugar britches, is on the internet.
  - sgnp
    
    As mentioned, it’s not the message, but the method.
    
    Do you believe the university was premature in forbidding the Assistant Attorney General from setting foot on campus?
    
    Also, to get a feel for what is and isn’t protected, would cyberbulling as outlined in the clip be protected under your interpretation of the First Amendment, regardless of whether or not you feel the Assistant Attorney General violated those rules?
  - redesigned
    
    Photography in public is a right. Stalking is a crime, but a very specific one that he doesn’t seem to be doing.
    
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberstalking
    
    but most importantly, in their state michigan, his actions are undeniably considered stalking:
    
    http://www.mymichigandefenselawyer.com/michigan-criminal-laws/stalking-laws/
    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdcr/Stalking_Brochure_2_176778_7.pdf
    
    Several of his actions are directly addressed under that law.
    I’m not sure where you got the idea that his actions wouldn’t be considered stalking, but according to the law you are incorrect in that assumption.
    - Quothz
      
      “but most importantly, in their state michigan, his actions are undeniably considered stalking:”
      
      I think you need to read your own links. In no wise does this guy qualify, which probably explains why he hasn’t been charged.
      
      The fact that some of the comments here have resorted t’name calling over this tells me that the point of rational argument is over, however, inasmuch as it ever began. From bjacques:
      
      “Concern troll is concerned. Cue Quothz’s justification, on the grounds of tolerance and freedom of speech, for targeting a specific individual, in 3…2…1…”
      
      My justification is that you shouldn’t be fired from your job for calling me a troll, even if you’d used your own name, even though it’s just childish name-calling.
    - IronEdithKidd
      
      Why don’t you read up on what AAG Shirvell has been up to before getting all shouty about free speech.
      
      For the record, I’m one of the people that pays AAG Shirvell’s salary. I’m pissed that he’s still employed. I’m pissed this flew under the radar as long as it has. This fool will likely be charged before the end of next week with at least a couple felonies. Still think it’s a free speech issue?
    - Anonymous
      
      Like most people who throw the term around until it loses all meaning, you don’t seem to realize what free speech IS. This man is not allowed to be fined, thrown in jail, or put under house arrest for saying what he thinks. He IS allowed to be fired by his employer for not representing his organization properly, especially when his organization is THE STATE OF MICHIGAN.
      
      Haven’t watched the video yet, but the descriptions of this man’s rambling sound like bipolar disorder more than autism to me. Like any other mental illness, it comes in a spectrum and the behavior of the individual is only influenced by the mental illness, not defined by it. Either way, clearly he’s not behaving rationally and I’d be worried about him assaulting this kid eventually as one of the rare people with mental illnesses who ARE violent. Tl;dr he is both incompetent and dangerous and needs serious professional help.
    - redesigned
      
      yes i did read those links, did you?
      
      the laws specifically cover and name several of his actions directly, i’m not sure how you can deny that.
      
      i’d hate to see what you consider stalking if his actions don’t fall under your definition. fortunately we don’t have to go off of your definition, just the laws.
      
      i wonder if someone showed up outside your house on several occasions trying to film you, showed up outside your parents house, went to all events you attend specifically to target you, went to your private parties to target you, read your facebook pages to get info on your family and friends and then harassed them, etc. etc. if you would feel stalked? i’m betting you would…
    - dculberson
      
      Actually, he likely hasn’t been charged because the person being stalked has to file a complaint against the stalker and Chris Armstrong is apparently more patient than I am. If you actually read the link provided, it says:
      
      “Harassment: conduct directed toward a victim that includes, but is not limited to, repeated or continuing unconsented contact that would cause a reasonable individual to suffer emotional distress and that actually causes the victim to suffer emotional distress.”
      
      Unconsented contact includes (but is not limited to): Being in visual contact with, approaching, or confronting a person.
      
      Shirvell has approached Armstrong at home, at school, and at work – since Armstrong is the student body president, the university would count as a work place. He has made multiple unconsented contacts in multiple locations, enough so that he has been warned to stay off university property. I am interested to see if you can claim that this is not harassment. With details, please!
      
      Just because someone is not charged does not mean they did not break the law.
    - Ugly Canuck
      
      Would not any such prosecution be conducted by the Attorney-General’s Office?
      I mean, the Attorney-General is the chief prosecutor in all criminal cases in Michigan, is she not?
      Or would a “Special prosecutor” need to be named?
    - dculberson
      
      They might be responsible for the prosecution of the case, but I think that charges would have to be brought first. Those charges are usually due to a complaint filed by the victim. There may be other ways for it to happen, but that’s the typical route. Since stalking is such a personal crime compared to, say, auto theft or the like, they don’t usually bring charges without an initial complaint.
    - Ugly Canuck
      
      Thanks for the response; I think I can see the distinction.
redesigned

I am shocked at the replies. Seriously! This guy has done nothing but spit bile at someone for marginal political activities.

Actually no, you might want to read people’s replies. This guy has show up outside his house and tried to video tape him both physically and online. He has harassed his friends and family. He has been stalking him. He tries to associate all LBG as Nazi extremists. This isn’t the first case of this guy spewing hate speech, he protested a pizza place for having a pride sticker on the door and several other similar incidents. The U of M campus has banned him. etc. etc.
ElleTopo

You are saying we should respect Shirvill’s civil liberties, but what happens when his “freedom of speech” infringes on somebody else’s civil liberties? That is what is going on in this case. Shivill’s ‘freedom of speech’ is stepping on this kid’s right to life his own life. What make’s Shirvill’s rights more important than his?
piminnowcheez

What I’m hearing is that you believe people should rally together to punish those who make unpopular political statements.

The problem isn’t so much that he’s making unpopular political statements. The problem is that he’s targeting a *college student* for exercising his *own* right to free speech.

But even so, it’s not like there’s some magic that happens when he steps out of his office — he may be doing this crap on his free time, but he still works as a public servant in the attorney general’s office. Therefore he has the threat of power to hold over this kid, and Michiganders would be reasonable to wonder how well he can represent all of the people’s legal interests in his professional capacity when he is so driven against one minority class of citizens.

There’s nothing wrong or even exceptional about citizens holding either public servants or representatives of a business accountable to prevailing standards of decent behavior. This guy works for Michigan taxpayers, but is behaving like a maniac toward an innocent individual. You’re god damned right I want him fired.

Dragonflye

@txhoudini…
So the story involves an openly gay man, a closeted self-hating gay man and an Attorney General named Mike Cox?

As reported by Anderson Cooper.

hassenpfeffer

Awww, the bully’s feeling bullied now? He needs to take his ball and go hide in a corner?

GOOD.

Larry7

I’d like to suggest a slightly different approach; one of compassion for Assistant Attorney General Andrew Shirvell. It’s clear he’s suffering a great deal of internalised homophobia, and has found an outlet for it and somoene else to blame for his very apparent homosexual tendencies. You can see it in his face, in the way he talks- this is a gay person who hates himself, and hates anyone with the “audacity” to not shoulder ancient imaginary biblical guilt as well. He needs a hug. Probably from a big daddy bear. The guy is gay- as the tide comes in and will go out again- no doubt about it.

abstract_reg

Yes get big daddy bear to console him right after we fire his ass.

teleny

Wow…can’t touch those homosexuals…always holding orgies! And not inviting ol’ Chervil…how dare he!

Cooper vs. Shervell…We’ve got America’s most transparently closeted gay (but we all forgive him) vs. this buffoon…it’s like watching Bugs Bunny vs. Elmer. Give him one, Anderson, for all those bullied kids out there!

Shervell looks and sounds like he’s in the throes of a major crush. Unfortunately, he’s a bastard, and we know bastards exist to be crushed.

Anonymous

There are screenshots of the blog, links to cached pages and some hilarious commentary over at Encyclopedia Dramatica under Shirvell’s name, for those of us who missed it.

Anonymous

He really seems like a closet self loathing gay man. There are gay men who claim to be straight and hate gays but are one and THIS guy right here definitely is in the closet taking out issues on someone else thats gay because he doesnt know how to mentally handle the stigmatization. I personally would get this guy on harassment. Even as a “citizen” you cant stalk people, do rallies, and freakin make his life a living hell with no repercussion whatsoever. I really would love to see this guy crucified and fired. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion but he stepped OVER the boundaries of what is considered opinion and what is harassment and just plain FUCKED up. To the 21 year old college student, I’m glad there are people like him to stand for who he is. AND NOBODY should do the bullshit this man is doing, its truly cyber forms of hate crime and SHOULD NOT be tolerated ESPECIALLY in a public service job!

redesigned

that should have read:
“This guy has show up outside his house and tried to video tape him…He has been stalking him both physically and online.”
(not sure how that got rearranged, i must be tired *sighs*)

Antinous / Moderator

Doesn’t it seem like it would be easier to get him disbarred? Then he could be fired with impunity.

kspraydad

If he was homophobic I doubt he would have granted Anderson interview.

redesigned

he has a history of homophobia…this isn’t the first incident. Google his name and you’ll come up with several other incidents, like the pizza place.

Anonymous

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

TTa

just read his “gay” orgy blog post and it was amazing.
his major issue (from the interview and the blog post) is Armstrong’s stance on gender neutral housing and that it would promote more “gay” orgies. my question is, wouldn’t all male or all female dorms promote that more than mixed dorms?!

redesigned

his major issue (from the interview and the blog post) is Armstrong’s stance on gender neutral housing and that it would promote more “gay” orgies. my question is, wouldn’t all male or all female dorms promote that more than mixed dorms?!

excellent point!

the ass. attorney general (note the abbreviation) should be fired for targeting someone with hate speech and harassing them about their sexuality, that goes far beyond acceptable behavior for someone in public office.

he filmed the guy from outside the guys house? He harassed the guys family and friends? that is stalking, not free speech!

Anonymous

@113
IF he was homophobic? What?

donniebnyc

Here is the letter I sent to .

Dear Attorney General Cox,

I have just seen Assistant AG Andrew Shirvell’s appearance on CNN with Anderson Cooper which led me to read Mr. Shirvell’s blog about Mr. Armstrong, and I must say I am appalled. I find it incomprehensible that you have allowed Mr. Shirvell to continue to act as a public servant in Michigan. Your statement calling him immature and having poor judgement does not begin to describe the damage he has done to the integrity and reputation of your office.

My question to you is this: How can any homosexual citizen of Michigan expect a fair and unbiased approach from the state of Michigan? Every citizen of Michigan is entitled to an impartial application of the law from the AG. It is quite obvious that because you continue to employ Mr. Shirvell, that you are comfortable with his views and tolerate his behavior — behavior that certainly borders on the paranoid.

I also want you to know that I am writing to the Department of Justice asking them to start an investigation into your office that would review any cases brought against homosexual defendants during your time in office to search for evidence of bias.

Once again, I want to say that Mr. Shirvell’s behavior and your response to it have brought shame on the AG’s office and the state of Michigan.

donniebnyc

Oops. I screwed up the email link: miag@michigan.gov

Anonymous

the “thank you” at the end of the interview was the only statement of mr. shirvell that sounded true to me.

.~.

Anonymous

Heheh. His boss is named “My Cocks”

Anonymous

His facial expressions are priceless. The eye rolling, the pursed lips. Freeze any frame and you get a gem.

Also, I wish I could say “ummm” like that, the next time anyone challenges me on anything I’ve done. “Ummmmm”

I do admire his passion, however. I wish I wasn’t so f*****g jaded about everything. Imagine getting so worked up about “gender neutral housing” … enough to devote all that time and energy, even face a disapproving Anderson Cooper. The man obviously cares.

planettom

Without even getting into all the other issues here…

From comment #31 EdgeWiseInAnnArbor above…

Assuming the info in that comment is accurate…so, in 2004, 6 years ago, this guy was still in law school? You can, less than 6 years after finishing law school, wind up Assistant Attorney General of a state? Weird.

Ultan

“You can, less than 6 years after finishing law school, wind up Assistant Attorney General of a state? Weird. ”

Ass. Attorney General is the lowest level of prosecutor working directly for the State.

Yes, he dreamed of being Ass. AG and working Mr. Cox – I mean working FOR Mr. Cox. And then maybe they could be… the AG duo!
- TTa
  
  genius

starfish and coffee

insensitive of me perhaps but this is the boingboing post that has made me burst out laughing the most. the nuggets of gold just keep coming from this guy.

oh, and I somewhat agree with the above poster that suggests his friendly attitude to gays does not really include closeted shit heads like Mr Shrivell.

jzhcats

I think that the assistant AG should seek some professional help and that the AG of Michigan should ask him to step down for the sake of all people. I think that the stalker/cyber bully is perhaps upset that he was not elected as Student President while he was at the U of M….and that maybe he is a closet gay himself and carrying a torch for the young college student. It is a shame when someone is so fearful that he can not embrace his true self and learn to live how he should may live. Maybe with professional help and pray, the assistant AG can find happiness and grow as a person.

I doubt it, but this is American and one always has to have hope.

boxbrown

This guy clearly wants to have sex with the kid.

MrJM

I’m not saying Michigan Assistant Attorney General Andrew Shirvell is a self-hating, closeted homosexual man.

I’m just saying I can’t see how he would behave differently if Michigan Assistant Attorney General Andrew Shirvell were a self-hating, closeted homosexual man.

That’s all, I’m saying.

fitley

Andrew Gerbil is going to need a much bigger closet. And he really is Pee Wee-esque.

redesigned

In the news today:

police are investigating Shirvell for potential harassment, intimidation or stalking

so action is being taken

unfortunately Mike Cox is trying to skirt his responsibility in the issue and his support of shirvell by approving his indefinite voluntary leave as of this morning and then stating that he cannot pursue the matter while shirvell is on leave.

Anonymous

The Assistant Attorney General is obviously mentally ill.

He needs to be relieved of duty and given mental health care.

IanGun

Careful with your letters folks, this guy obviously is likely gay and torn about it. As much as his actions are reprehensible, it is easy to see another suicide out of this if he is tormented and ruined.

Ask for counseling and acceptance, not hate, or you’re no better than he or the other people that drive gay teens to take their lives.

Ugly Canuck

Actually, I agree with your sentiment.
A little more tolerance, for everybody, from everybody, helps everybody.

Perhaps even the intolerant, to get over their intolerance – but my experience has shown me that an honestly-held prejudice can be very difficult to dislodge. Sometimes, it is the younger people who are the ones to really carry things forward: some of us oldsters really do become too “set in our ways”, to actually change our views.

Youth OTOH have no such excuse, for their intolerance.
Their only excuse is that they have, or had, bad examples to imitate.

MrsBug

Allow me to apologize on behalf of Michigan for this moron.

jaypee

Hey Andrew, what’s that river in Egypt?

Anonymous

I set up a talk on Instant Run off Voting at a local Catholic Church, and invited a pro-choice Catholic State Senator to talk about it, since her father was elected Mayor of Ann Arbor using that method. As a law student, Andrew Shirvell told Catholic radio stations that it was going to be an endorsement of pro-choice, and they gave out names and addresses on air. They said they were going to protest some kids first communion at a completely different church. I and several people got death threats. The clergy cancelled the talk. This guy is a total nut, and he has been encouraged to get crazier by other right wing nuts and by people who have not stood up for him.

hassenpfeffer

If he were an AG in NJ, he might be responsible for prosecuting those pricks who drove Tyler Clementi to jump off the GW Bridge. “Your honor, I refuse to bring charges against these fine young straight students who were merely fighting the good fight against the Radical Homosexual Agenda(TM).”

Sadly, he’ll probably wind up as a judge one day soon.

Rajio

Only in Amerca

Antinous / Moderator

Yeah, it’s not like the Irish Science minister was planning to launch an anti-evolution book two weeks ago or anything.

http://boingboing.net/submit/2010/09/irish-minister-for-science-to-launch-anti-evolotion-book.html
- flashman
  
  Actually a talk from our science minister was a feature of that book launch, a book authored by a constituent of his. He said he was there to say something along the lines of ‘We need and should encourage the exploration of different points of view.’ So while there has been a lot of bad stuff going on here, this is one case where I feel some degree of pride in our government. Of course people took the matter up as you have, and the author himself cancelled the talk having witnessed the pressure the minister had come under.
  
  It has nothing to do with the topic here, except perhaps that the minister’s sentiments are the antithesis of Shirvel’s.

TTa

can anybody say self hating and closeted?
i knew you could

Anonymous

That was my very first reaction – one of a sadly huge number of gay politicos who target out gays because of their own internalized homophobia.

Tensegrity

Hey Andrew, your gay is showing.

hassenpfeffer

I don’t suppose we could sic 4chan on this guy to determine if he’s ever visited the Sen. Larry Craig Memorial Men’s Room at the Minneapolis-St. Paul airport?

Heartfruit

I suppose this just goes to show that just because you’re no longer in junior high, doesn’t mean you can be either the victim or perpetrator of cyber bulling.

nehpetsE

Wait…. this is one of Paul Reubens’ new characters? Right? Right?

Boba Fett Diop

“Well, Anderson…I know you are but what am I?”
- nehpetsE
  
  Exactly!

ricky!ricky!

Wow-Talk about immature,unrequited love. I am guessing he will be unemployed within a week.

Brainspore

When did Buster Bluth pass the bar exam and turn into a crusading homophobe?

Anonymous

I was waiting for a Buster Bluth reference and you delivered, Brainspore. Bravo!

RikF

Every day, in every way, I’m loving Roger Ebert more and more

NuOrder72

What does Ebert have to do with this story?
- Anonymous
  
  …because Roger Ebert is a Pulitzer Prize winning essayist. Check out his blog.

hermia

May I suggest that any other Michiganians and other interested folks email the Attorney General’s office at miag@michigan.gov, and also contact the State Bar jwelch@mail.michbar.org. The more people complain and the more press this gets perhaps the AG will do the right thing and fire this guy.

cjp

Thanks for the email addresses. I’m Canadian, but this is too appalling to ignore. I have just sent this to the AG office:

“I would like to extend my sincere hopes that Mr. Shirvell’s behavior in the case of student Chris Armstrong does not represent the character of the rest of your employees, or indeed the rest of your state. Since his story is making headlines north of the border, he should be made aware that people are censuring him not only in Michigan, but internationally.

We in Canada admire American concepts of free speech and religion, but are growing evermore weary of the type of hatred he has embraced. A story such as this makes me hesitate to spend my tourist dollars in your state.”
- IronEdithKidd
  
  Send another email to MikeCox@michigan.gov. That’s his actual inbox.
  - hermia
    
    Thanks for that.
    
    You can report that blog for hate speech rather than spam. It’s one of the options.
    - TTa
      
      don’t report the blog…the more he writes, the further he incriminates himself and shows the world for the fool he is
    - Anonymous
      
      “don’t report the blog…the more he writes, the further he incriminates himself and shows the world for the fool he is”
      
      I have seen the Tea Party grow and grow on that tactic.

Dragonflye

Wow… there are almost no words. He speaks like a 10-yr-old (mentally unbalanced) child… Does he seriously have the credentials to be an Asst Attorney General?

ethancoop

I’ve got no degree in psychology but what do you figure are the chances this guy was mercilessly teased in high school about being gay? I’d say about 10,000%

kwow

Clearly, he needs to be linked to the It Gets Better post.

cjp

Wow. Just, wow. This guy has some issues he needs to discuss with him mom and his psychologist.

Hey, Chris Armstrong – remember: “Illigitimis non carborundum’ – Don’t let the bastards grind you down.”

lolbrandon

Biggest. Pickle dick. EVER.

matman

How glad the many millions of Annabelles and Lillians
Would be to capture me
But you had such persistence, you wore down my resistance
I fell and it was swell

You’re my big and brave and handsome Romeo
How I’ll win you I shall never never know
Its not that you’re attractive
But, oh, my heart grew active
When you came into view

Ive got a crush on you, sweetie pie
All the day and night-time hear me sigh
I never had the least notion that
I could fall with so much emotion

Could you coo, could you care
For a cunning cottage we could share
The world will pardon my mush
Cause I have got a crush on you

Could you coo, could you care
For a cunning cottage
That we could share
The world will pardon my mush
Cause I have got a crush, my baby, on you

Mich Ass't. Attorney General cyberbullies gay student body president

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