Rand Paul supporters pin down and curb-stomp MoveOn activist - video

NatWu

Uh, Zyodei, do you not realize you’re supporting your argument with a Wikipedia article? That’s not exactly known for it’s peer reviewed scholarship. And the “true” curb stomp you defend is entirely fictitious anyway, as the only known instance takes place in American History X. http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=25;t=001248;p=1

To get technical, this lady was definitely stomped, and was perhaps on a curb. She was at least on pavement anyway.

Daedalus

“Campaign finance laws are unconstitutional. You can’t say “this speech is ok” but “this speech is not”.”

I know the SCOTUS has ruled on this, but I think that the idea that “money is speech” is vile as hell.

So the rich have more free speech than the poor.

So I get paid by my employer in free speech.

Nooooooooooooooope.

Also, in News of the Obvious: Tea Partiers are an agitated mob of angry ignoramuses, and rest assured, in the elections they win, “stepping on the heads of those that disagree with you” is going to become something of a national passtime, while we all get sucked dry by the large corporate interests behind the movement.

Remember: a vote for the Tea Party (or any Republican who appears at their rallies) is a vote for Crazy Stupid Evil.

bardfinn

(IANAL IANYL ATINLA)

The notion that “money is speech” may initially seem vile when considered in the context of corporate donations to politicians, but it seems far less vile when considered in the context of the freedom of private individuals to give money to other private individuals in public -

such as when someone gives money to a homeless person on a street corner, or to a panhandler on a sidewalk.

Many municipalities have ordinances that forbid people from holding signs in public, holding signs in public asking for money. Dallas has an ordinance that forbids people from giving money to other people in public. It also has an ordinance that forbids anyone from feeding anyone else for free (the needy) outside of designated areas of the city, even on their own property.

The problem with corporate donations to politicians as speech is not in and of the notion itself. The problem is that the corporations become a way to launder contributions: there’s insufficient transparency because the transparency regulations are insufficient and poorly enforced.

The social / state need to ensure the political process is uncorrupted by special interests and foreign powers outweighs the corporations’ need for privacy as regards the source of their campaign contributions. But there is not a need for the state to forbid corporations from campaign contributions.

Stefan Jones

The guy doing the stomping was RAND PAUL’s COUNTY COORDINATOR.

He has admitted it and apologized.

I hope he has a good lawyer.

IronEdithKidd

Try watching the video without the sound. The woman is assaulted, then battered. The man who stomped on her back/neck should be tossed in jail for a good 5 years. The man who holds her down should be charged as an accessory. Both men are certainly old enough to know better.

If this is what uber-selfrighteous conservatives allow to happen in their name, then they pose a grave threat to the rule of law and to democracy itself.

arkham deadfly

Conservatives are disgusting, sick, subhumans and Conservativism should be treated as a dangerous mental illness.

IronEdithKidd

I would advise against stereotyping anyone you don’t agree with as being mentally ill.

Try to keep some perspective. The vast majority of people who will vote for republicans this election cycle will still fall into three camps: voting their fears, voting their pipe dreams, or voting anti-choice/pro-church.
teufelsdroch

Conservatives are disgusting, sick, subhumans and Conservativism should be treated as a dangerous mental illness.

Democrats are great at apologizing. Our natural response is to seek consensus and take responsibility for things that go wrong.

The Republicans organize the fear and economic worries of the country and they say, “Blame it on THIS GUY.” They villify anyone who disagrees with them. And, when something goes wrong, they deny its actual existence.

They–and by ‘they’ I mean the sort of person who watches Fox to the exclusion of any other news source, believes themselves informed and centrist, and happily spouts off whatever propaganda Fox has drummed into them that day–they ARE evil.

The level at which Democrats are in bed with big money is NOT equivalent. Right now, corporations around the world are making an INVESTMENT in the Conservative wing–one they expect to be paid back.

And, bottom line, I DO believe they’re sick. I DON’T think the best thing is for Democrats to keep apologizing for them.
Phrosty

I’m not a fan of them either, but now you’re just generalizing.
steev

How do these idiots represent “Conservatism” in any way? It’s the morons on both extremes we should worry about. Cage up the hard left and hard right folks and they’ll eat each other alive.
- arkham deadfly
  
  The Tea Party is made up of people who are TOO conservative to be regular Republicans. Yes, I know it was originally a “Libertarian” thing, but it stopped being that years ago, and is now officially the crazy wing of the Republican party. So yes, it IS absolutely a representation of Conservatives
  - Charlotte Corday
    
    Yep, there are some real kooks in the tea party.
    
    None of them have ever been likely to vote Democrat, by the way…so I’m at a loss as to why liberals are so obsessed with them.
    
    It would be a much more productive exercise to ask why all the non-kook middle of the road voters who voted Democrat in 2006 and 2008 have dropped the Democrats like a hot potato.
    
    (PS – if you think the reason is that they have all been hypnotized by Glenn Beck and the Koch brothers, by all means, continue to think so. Keep that theory firmly fixed in your mind.)
    - MrJM
      
      “ask why all the non-kook middle of the road voters who voted Democrat in 2006 and 2008 have dropped the Democrats like a hot potato”
      
      Citation please.
    - Charlotte Corday
      
      From those well known hotbeds of neo-Nazi agitprop: the Washington Post, Pew Research, and the Christian Science Monitor….
      
      https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/23/AR2010092300299.html
      
      http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2010/1025/Why-independent-voters-are-abandoning-the-Democrats
    - MrJM
      
      So “Independents” are the only “non-kook middle of the road voters who voted Democrat in 2006 and 2008″?
      
      Got it.
    - Anonymous
      
      1. “independent voters” — the ones who are voting republican — are not ex-democrats, they are ex republicans. They grew when GOP ID shrunk. The new additions to independents ARE the tea party people who think the GOP and Bush are “too liberal.”
      
      2. The outcome of this election has nothing to do with voters from from Dem to GOP. It is about turnout — more change from Dem to non-voter than from GOP to non-voter. This is why the GOP has made no effort to appeal to centrists and have focused on depressing (or outright suppressing) turnout among minorities.
      
      But if you think there has been some persuasion victory by the republican party … keep thinking that…
    - Uncle Geo
      
      We are obsessed with them because the kooks get all the air time. Our mainstream media feeds on spectacle because that’s what people watch. The kooks have influenced a whole pile of people with their nonsense and it’s become very damaging.
      
      I have a hard time understanding middle of the road voters whether they voted Democrat or Republic in 08. The excesses by the Republics should be obvious on their face -their failed trickle down experiment just reamed everyone. But from phone banking middle of the roaders, the reality is that few of them have any fully formed picture of politics or it’s affect on their lives.
      
      Issues are complex and Republics (including Beck) take advantage of that by supplying ready-to-eat simplistic explanations that often have no basis in truth. Not to say that (i)all independents are susceptible to this bullshit, but too many folks can’t tell you what either party really stands for. These people decide elections.
    - Teller
      
      The kooks seem to get play not just in mainstream media. After all, aren’t we all here reading this post? While calm and well-intentioned, your comment just smacks of condescension – everyone’s stupid but “We”. Not that I care a pisspot for Glenn Beck, but has ANY “ready-to-eat simplistic” message ever beaten Hope/Change? That fed a lot of highly-aware college graduates. Everybody’s susceptible to what they want to hear. You, me and Mammy Yokum.
      
      None of which changes that cowardly beating.
    - grimc
      
      You really want equate the “Hope” and “Change” marketing pitch with ‘Obama is a Marxist Kenyan Muslim’ and ‘Democrats are exactly like Nazis’? Seriously? Hookay…
    - Teller
      
      In terms of simplistic messages? I’d say ‘Democrats = Nazis’ is as simplistic as “Hope/Change.” “Marxist Kenyan Muslim” not so much. Better to say “Foreign-born Communist” or just “Communist” don’t you think?
    - jere7my
      
      “…has ANY “ready-to-eat simplistic” message ever beaten Hope/Change?”
      
      That’s like complaining about “I like Ike.” It’s a slogan. Slogans are simplistic (or, to put it more kindly, pithy). Obama’s message was nuanced and explicit, if you actually listened to what he was saying â€” though the right-wing strategy at the time was to do exactly what you’re doing now, which is conflate the slogan with the message and paint him as a demagogue. Yes, he played to people’s hopeful nature, and very effectively, but he also spelled out exactly what he was going to try to do.
      
      For Glenn Beck and his compadres, the slogan is the message. They start with a sound bite, then build a platform out of confirmation bias and cherry-picked data to support it. Since they’re playing to the worst fears and prejudices of their audience, the audience doesn’t have much incentive to pick apart the platform.
    - Teller
      
      I get the difference. Slogan vs sound bite is a little – a little – apples and orangeish. But please please tell me that “They start with a sound bite, then build a platform out of confirmation bias and cherry-picked data to support it” is not the way of all politics. That Glenn Beck or whomever does that to serve a selfish purpose and Nancy Pelosi or the President doesn’t. Please. Remember how by ‘talking’ to the rogue nations Obama would restore America’s respectability? He’s an international joke and we all know it. Bush they feared, and I don’t blame them. Obama, they ignore.
      
      Regardless, my note to Geo was that simplistic crap appeals to everyone – it just depends from which simplistic crapper it flows. It’s not a measure of schooling or intelligence.
      
      grimc: truth is the meat of the matter. Uh, let’s not talk about that. That’ll aid your argument! Fact is – while Hope/Change was simplistic – it was a highly truthful message. Hope tapped into people’s desire for improvement – but didn’t guarantee it. Very honest. And Change – well, yeah, electing Obama would be a change from Bush. Honest again.
      
      And that Rand County Coordinator, that coward, who put his foot on that woman’s head – shame and punishment on him.
    - Brainspore
      
      Remember how by ‘talking’ to the rogue nations Obama would restore America’s respectability? He’s an international joke and we all know it.
      
      Not that I’m saying he’s earned it, mind you- but there is the little matter of the Nobel frickin’ Peace Prize. That tells me that the international community has at least as much respect for Obama as it did for his predecessor.
      
      Bush they feared, and I don’t blame them. Obama, they ignore.
      
      “Fear” isn’t the same thing as “respect.” And what’s the point of making people fear you if they still don’t do what you want them to? Last I checked the remaining two members of Bush’s “Axis of Evil” expanded their nuclear weapons programs under his watch with the help of our “ally” Pakistan. If that’s the kind of fear and respect you get from two wars then I’ll take apathy.
    - Teller
      
      C’mon. That dang Peace Prize lost value going to Obama. Even he was embarrassed. Only tells us the Norwegians like him. And while they’re roguish folks – Norway’s not a rogue nation.
      
      In international relations, I would say fear moves minds further than apathy. Now there’s a Godwin-inviting statement – but we know, B-spore – it’ll never come from you.
    - Brainspore
      
      Please provide an example of why you believe Obama is a bigger joke in the international community than Bush. I did a bit of traveling during those years and believe me, there wasn’t any lack of jokes made at Bush’s expense.
      
      Also, exactly what benefits do you believe we gleaned from the fear Bush created? The only “rouge nations” Bush named did exactly the opposite of what he wanted them to, so it obviously didn’t have the desired effect on them.
    - zyodei
      
      I think the question that should be asked is not whether Obama is worse than Bush, but which of Bush’s policies, exactly, Obama rolled back – seeing how that was basically his mandate.
    - Brainspore
      
      I absolutely agree that we should be holding Obama to his promises and he hasn’t yet delivered on them.
      
      The statement I was challenging was Teller’s apparent claim that we’ve somehow lost standing in the international community under Obama because he’s more open to talking and less eager to start wars than Bush was.
    - zyodei
      
      I think we’ve lost respect internationally to the extent that the world sees that even when everyone gets together to elect an anti-war candidate, the wars don’t stop but rather mutate. It calls into question our whole vaunted democratic process we like to go on about so much.
    - Uncle Geo
      
      “Regardless, my note to Geo was that simplistic crap appeals to everyone – it just depends from which simplistic crapper it flows.”
      
      But some crappers are way bigger than others. All this equivocating -”They’re both the same” or “They all do it” masks the huge difference in scale. The right’s BS machine has been going full tilt boogie for 40 years. In our darkest hours, we Dems sometimes secretly wish we could concoct such massively effective bullshit.

Anonymous

As far as people saying stuff along the lines of “they didn’t stomp on her head” that is splitting hairs. Not to mention that stepping on someone’s neck like that could well break it, these thugs are lucky she did not sustain serious injury.

MRKiscaden

The vitriol aimed at conservatives spewed on this page is doing nothing to promote the liberal ideology. In fact it only proves to me that one group is just as vile as the other.

arkham deadfly

xprssng th fct tht cnsrvtvs s whl r htfl, bgtd, xtrmst shtbgs ds nt tmtclly mk n lbrl.

Danny O’Brien

As a libertarian, I’m happy (well, maybe happy isn’t the right word) to say that was a pretty nasty attack. I’d also add that those people saying “she was smiling afterwards” have perhaps not dealt with people in shock before.

Mark Frauenfelder

And good for her for smiling and showing that these hateful scumbags weren’t able stun her into silence.

bluefelix5

So… the candidate didn’t even tell his supporters to NOT curb stomp people? He may not be personally responsible, but shouldn’t he at least expect the people at these events to act in a civil manner?

HornCologne

Rand Paul and Right-Wing media got that freak to the mindset that stomping “lefties” is acceptable. That has to change.

So this just guaranteed that I am triple-checking my absentee ballot that I am voting for the sanest candidates I can locate on it and sending it in ASAP.

To everyone voting on November 2nd, show the politicians and the rest of America that you won’t be bullied into submission!

Vote for sane candidates, willing to debate, discuss and cooperate to make the country a better place. As Jon Stewart recently put it: “People have forgotten that ‘opponent’ does not mean ‘enemy’.”

Cowicide

Rand Paul and Right-Wing media got that freak to the mindset that stomping “lefties” is acceptable. That has to change.

The only good that’ll come of out this is that these acts of violence will help to marginalize these corporatist fronts (tea party) and further turn the American public (at large) against them.

As far as change goes… these type of people are really the kind of folk who embrace admitting wrong-doing or any change for that matter. I honestly think things will get worse. Yes, they are that stupid.

Lobster

What this teaches us:

- Rand Paul is not Ron Paul.
- Don’t wade into a group of far-right conservatives with a snarky criticism of their leader.

What this does not teach us:

- Tea Partiers are violent or dangerous. All we know is that /these/ specific ones are.

Look guys, I’m pretty sick of the Tea Party. I was ecstatic when I heard we were getting a third party because I wrongly assumed it’d be for moderates instead of an even MORE right-wing party in an increasingly conservative nation.

That said, let’s act like adults, shall we? We aren’t going to get anywhere calling conservatives “subhuman.” We aren’t going to get anywhere presenting sarcastic awards to people we don’t like.

We can either work to fix this mess of a country – and maybe provide a REAL third option for people who are SICK TO DEATH of conservatives AND liberals – or we can sit here smirking about FOX News and “The Conservatives” as it circles the drain. Your choice, guys.

Anonymous

“What this does not teach us:

- Tea Partiers are violent or dangerous. All we know is that /these/ specific ones are.”

This is wrong, and a tired defense of the tea party simply because not everyone in the tea party would do something this terrible. While it is true that most members wouldn’t do something like this (I hope), the leadership of the tea party has come to the defense of these crazy, bigoted, and violent members continuously – an act that only promotes these actions within your political movement. Tea partiers have also made a choice to keep with an organization that promotes such actions.

The tea party is the largest abomination US citizens have cooked up since the time of the civil rights movement, and I’m a fan of having a third political party.
Anonymous

While I agree with your general call for moderation, I’m not sure I understand one thing.

If it’s NOT a lesson that tea partiers are violent or dangerous, then why is it a lesson that we shouldn’t exercise our right to freedom of speech while they’re around?

The fact is that people SHOULD wade into a group of right wingers with snarky criticism of their leaders. And people should wade into a group of left-wingers with snarky criticism of their leaders, too, if they want to.

And the people who committed battery (not simple assault) should be arrested and tried. And I predict that they will be, if the woman wants them to be.
bardfinn

In America, people should be free to “wade into a group of people with snarky criticism of their leader” without being assaulted and battered. These fuckers are all for “freedom”, so long as it’s their freedom to screw over others for their own benefit.

It is never the victim’s fault that some cretin felt that speech needed to be responded to with physical violence.
mdh

for real Lobster? You’re going to call people out for being snarky and dismissive? You?

Lobster, fyi – your posts regularly read like self-sarody, you do see that, no? the lack of self examination, the “making sure I’m not doing what I accuse others of is missing from your position, and it is awesome on some level, but not convincing or clever.

Please, keep contributing, but please, please add something when you do.

Unmutual

hay guys remember the Tea Party are the true spiritual successors to Dr Martin Luther King Jr. mmmkay?

Blaine

I usually don’t comment on political videos since I’m not always well read on the candidates. I suppose I’m liberal. I don’t know, I kind of hate the labels.

Here’s what I saw.

A woman was wrestled to the ground, held there while a man much larger than her stepped on her.
Foot started on her shoulder and ended on her head.

I’d welcome a criminal trial to determine if the stomper broke the law and to what extent. IANAL but I think the law covers ‘stepping on people who don’t want stepped upon’ somewhere.

Anonymous

How sad and scary. And these are the Neanderthals that want to take “their” country back. Get out and vote or they just might.

Antinous / Moderator

Amazing how some people can look at a video of a woman being assaulted and take that as an invitation to gas endlessly about their political philosophy. Humanity fail.

Cowicide

I would have read more of those political philosophies but I was too busy watching some flies fuck.

Anonymous

“And the “true” curb stomp you defend is entirely fictitious anyway, as the only known instance takes place in American History X. http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=25;t=001248;p=1”

A kid in Winnipeg was curb stomped like this in the early 90s. Some adults beat him with his own skateboard first and then really did it to him, knocking out his teeth. It was pretty widely reported in the Free Press at the time, and was my first exposure to the term. Also one of the events that prompted me to move to Vancouver Island, where my brother and I were stomped nearly to death months later. My brother was in a coma for two months. Talk about irony.

Captcha: retomp years

sum.zero

esquimalt? 1995/96ish?

sum.zero

Pope Ratzo

I don’t blame Rand Paul for this behavior, but I blame this behavior for Rand Paul.

Thanks to the tea partiers for cementing America’s reputation as a second-rate nation.

Neon Tooth

I guess this is what they mean by “Restoring honor”, back to a time when white men could beat down any uppity women who step out of line.

Also reading further statements from her it would seem that this was somewhat premeditated on their part.

Snakefarmer

Juan Williams was fired by NPR, not “curb stomped.”

Dr. Pasolini

I’m not shocked to see this kind of violence happening at a political event. The far right has a long history of this sort of thing. Paul’s supporters are merely the respectable face of white-supremacist organizing in this country.

I am a little surprised to see so many bOING bOING readers defending this assault. Can you imagine what would happen if this had been a group of anarchists holding down a police officer and stomping on his head? If they were caught they’d go to prison for at least 10 years. And yet the security of a woman, a left-wing woman at that, is cause for snide comments. “She got what she asked for” works for politics as well as sex apparently.

zyodei

Which readers do you mean, exactly?

Who is “defending” the assault?

I am one other poster questioned the labeling of it, thinking the headline was sensationalist. I mean, a curb stomp is one of the worst things to possibly do to someone, and has a high chance of forever ruining their life. I will say, it was callous of LeFunk to point out that she was smiling in the clip, as if that proves she was not injured.

Clearly this was criminal battery. It was also thuggish, violent, and stupid. This guy probably leads a miserable life. But I don’t see any premeditation here to cause her grievous harm. It was just a rash, stupid act, committed in a moment by someone who probably has violent tendencies.

I am dismayed by people condemning anyone talking about what actually happened. It seems fairly clear to me, for instance, that he stomped her shoulder, rather than neck or head. It’s still totally over the line, inappropriate, thuggish, and criminal. But that change his intent.

Of course, holding her down in the first place is ridiculous. But the really “wrong” bit, the stomp..was an anomalous incident, rather than the spirit of the crowd.

It’s quite clear that, after he does this, everyone recognizes the situation has crossed a line, completely backs of and lays off her. Indicating that it is one violent person, rather than an inherently violent group.

If only the many victims of police brutality in this country could be so lucky! One cop hits the victim, and all the other cops say “hey man, you shouldn’t have done that. let’s leave the guy alone now.” Yeah, right…

This is a problem not so much of the right in particular, unless anyone can demonstrate a widespread pattern of this type of incident at right wing events; but rather more generally of the paranoid police state security theater this country has descended into.

Anyone who represents anything out of the norm is considered a threat to be punished.

The treatment they gave her, in the minutes before the clip, hounding her and trying to remove her, is not at all different from how, for instance, Bush’s handlers acted at any of his events (or, I assume, Obama’s for that matter). If you don’t fit the mold of a cookie cutter American, you are deemed a threat and expelled from the physical space of the politician forcefully and sometimes violently.

rebdav

It is too bad that Ron Paul is not running this time. He was the only candidate to understand what is happening with the economy in the ’08 election but he was frozen out of all debates after the first primaries.

I don’t know if Rand has real support form the RNC or if he is as smart as his father, but the tea party which had some roots in the Ron Paul economics revolution and its rejection by the RNC leadership has been taken over by mainstream Republicans and Fox News.

Remember Ron Paul campaigned AGAINST continuing G.W. Bush and his foreign policy and domestic economics plans, he is hardly a neocon.

Idiots can be attracted to any cause, these guys probably think this is the best way to hamstring the “black president”, they are probably right but for all terribly wrong reasons.

Anonymous

I don’t know if Rand has real support form the RNC or if he is as smart as his father, but the tea party which had some roots in the Ron Paul economics revolution and its rejection by the RNC leadership has been taken over by mainstream Republicans and Fox News.

A little, but not much, and no, he isn’t.

It’s sad really, I’ve been following Rand Paul in the news and blogs for some time. He certainly does not have the intelligence or integrity of his father. Whenever I think of him I’m reminded of the difference between George H. W. “cap and trade” Bush, who I dislike but have to admit is somewhat intelligent, and the several amoral and imbecilic Bush sons.

SamSam

The worst part of this is that 98% of the Rand Paul supporters who were on the curb saw this, did nothing, and now when they see this on TV they feel no guilt at all, because it wasn’t *their* foot that stomped on the woman, it was some other person who went just a little too far.

d3matt

wow… way to paint with a wide brush…

I can do it too:
Joseph Stalin killed millions of innocents so Obamatards want to murder!
Bill Ayers bombed police stations so Donkeycrats all want to destroy society!

Do you realize how ridiculous you are being?

If you want to fix the elections, stop complaining about money and start talking about term limits!

Guesstimate Jones

I have to commend Ms. Valle, for her composure, and restraint, after experiencing that…if that had happened to me, or I had witnessed it, I don’t like to think about the likely consequences.

Oldboy

I truly cannot comprehend all of the comments on this post excusing the men in this video. This is disgusting behavior, and everyone one of those men deserves to be brought up on assault charges.

Anonymous

So I guess the fact that not only was this man an official volunteer/county coordinator for the Paul campaign but that the Paul campaign tried to hide this fact pretty much renders mute the argument that we cant say anything about a particular candidate based on the actions of her supporters, huh

MRKiscaden

People will beat each other up over anything. I find it funny that so many posters here are quick to place blame on the Tea Party supporters. Are you so insulated from the human condition that you have never seen violence before? Do you really hold yourself above such actions? Cause I’m sure under the right conditions you would punch your own grandmother. You’re a human after all.

Here’s the short version: Humans are violent, evil creatures.

Long version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War

Xenu

Librarians won’t be satisfied until their constitutional rights to pin people down and stomp on their heads are fully honored *

(* And not taxed)

erissian

[quote]Librarians won’t be satisfied until their constitutional rights to pin people down and stomp on their heads are fully honored *

(* And not taxed)[/quote]

But don’t taxes pay for their books?

Rayonic

This is a sad case of human group dynamics running out of control. You’re with your group, making a display of strength, an intruder comes in, attack!

Almost as sad is believing that only your hated enemy is capable of the worst of human behavior.

Modusoperandi

TheAntipodean (#15) “You guys should try this new form of government. Called democracy. One adult, one vote. It works amazingly well in civilized countries.”
That got dropped after Bush v Gore.

Anon (#21) “For those of us in the Not-USA part of the world, does anyone care to summarise who Rand Paul is, what he/she stands for…”
He hates Big Government, but accepts Medicare patients.
He’s against minimum wage laws, but insists that he, himself, deserves a good wage.
…
He’s against a bunch of things, but for them when they benefit him.

“…and what MoveOn is?”
MoveOn is an American non-profit, progressive[1] or liberal[2][3], public policy advocacy group and political action committee which has raised millions of dollars for candidates it identifies as “progressives” in the United States.

d3matt (#43) “If you want to fix the elections, stop complaining about money and start talking about term limits!”
Campaign finance reform would be a better step (good luck).
Term limits have the effect of making the Washingtonians with the most experience the lobbyists.

d3matt

“Campaign finance reform would be a better step (good luck).”

Campaign finance laws are unconstitutional. You can’t say “this speech is ok” but “this speech is not”. Don’t like it? Change the constitution. Now, we could scrap corporations. That may not be such a bad thing, but as it is now, their best interest is to support candidates who aren’t going to make it impossible for the them to do business.

This goes for everything else that I find wrong with the left’s current agenda. They want to remake our center-right society in the our image and don’t even have the balls to do it in front of our faces. A constitutional convention would put everyone’s neck on the line then the chips would fall.

All that being said, violence isn’t the answer right now. We’ve still got most of our freedoms intact. It takes a lot more tyranny to justify anything more than raised voices! People who can’t understand that should be thrown from any movement because they soil the image of the movement they support.

Anonymous

I’m with the earlier comment. We found cat lady, who’s the jerk stepping on her head?

Guesstimate Jones

It’s also very fortunate, that there was a video camera on hand to capture the incident…who knows how far they might have gone, if they thought they were the only witnesses.

AnnieGetYourFun

Yes, you can tell that they stop short only because they know that they will be on the YouTube.

Anonymous

I don’t see how people can say she looks happy and smiling afterward. Her voice is shaking and she looks like she’s trying not to cry. This is heinous and those men should be severely punished, no matter what political party they belong to!

Anonymous

This reminds me of the grainy 1930s footage of hitler youth mistreating jews on the public streets.

Anonymous

The “liberal activist” showing up at a Rand Paul rally probably demonstrated a lack of good judgment.

On the other hand, the man that placed his foot on this tiny woman’s neck demonstrated criminal behavior and should be jailed. I sincerely hope that that man is prosecuted for battery and I also hope that woman sues the shit out of him. The people who stood watching around while this happened should all be ashamed of themselves.

mightymouse1584

“If libertarians do have principles, now would be a fine time to stand up for them.”

as a libertarian, allow me to express how i feel about rand paul. this is a guy that opposes same-sex marriage, immigration, abortion, and the legalization of marijuana. really the only thing that strikes me about him as libertarian is his stance on taxes. this guy is libertarian in name only and nothing more.

Guesstimate Jones

It’s also very fortunate, that there was a video camera on hand to capture the incident…who knows how far they might have gone, if they thought they were the only witnesses.

PJDK

I think tere is a bit of people seeing what they want to see in this video, i.e. a crowd of angry conservatives beating up someone who disagrees with them.

But that isn’t really what happens. As I see it one guy (dude in a cap let’s call him asshole #1) wrestles this woman to the ground more or less on top of another guy who is just standing there.

Straight away a pretty fat woman comes over and starts pulling him off her. The guy who’s foot got landed on backs off a bit.

Meanwhile asshole #2 wonders over and starts does a sort of foot stomping thing (although let’s be generous to Mr Asshole, it could be like some kind of foot based grapple?) which as soon as it begins someone starts yelling “no no no no no” and moves to stop him at which point Asshole #2 wanders off.

At which point the event is over. The woman is freed largely unhurt luckily. The crowd doesn’t turn on her and rip her apart. The rest of the protesters you can see are doing what most people do when a fight breaks out, standing back and seeing what happens.

As far as I can see only two protester were assholes, a few were doing the right thing, and the rest were doing what you might expect for that sort of incident (standing back and going what the hell? and probably not even realising what is going on until it is over).

chgoliz

“The rest of the protesters you can see are doing what most people do when a fight breaks out, standing back and seeing what happens.”

You saw a fight break out in that video?

I saw a completely unarmed and nonviolent person being violently attacked by multiple people of much larger stature, not even able to defend herself once the crime was underway.

How is that a “fight”, in which an uninvolved observer might reasonably back away and leave the combatants to their own choice of behavior?

Anonymous

One formulation of the libertarian non-aggression principle:

“It shall be legal for anyone to do anything he wants, provided only that he not initiate (or threaten) violence against the person or legitimately owned property of another.”

Unmutual

More accurately, he kind of pantimimes a curb stomp. She seems perfectly fine afterwards.

The grabbing and forcing to the ground was clearly “assault” though . . . but I saw this link earlier and it said “click to watch, but be warned, it’s pretty disturbing”

I almost spewed my coffee at the end when she is smiling at the camera.

Anonymous

I am beyond depressed at what passes for “political discourse” in this country these days. What’s next? Bomb throwing? That was truly despicable behavior on the part of the Rand supporters.

Earlier this week there was that crazy (republican) congressional candidate from Texas who implied violent revolution was “on the table”, apparently if the right does not take over. Where are these crazies coming from?

I am going to have a hard time at the polls next Tuesday, because I am a fiscally conservative, socially liberal, thinking, voter and there are NO candidates on the ballot here who think remotely like me. I will probably burn some of my votes on Libertarian candidates, because they are the lesser evil.

Anonymous

“It is callous for liberals in big cities to dismiss the Tea party movement as a bunch of “wing nuts” when it is creating problems for people of color and gays and women who support reproductive rights in the rest of America.”

- Chip Berlet

Again, let’s find the people who did this and prosecute. Busting anyone who touched her is one way to force the violence in people to think twice.

bjacques

@Allen Garvin #73:

No. The report doesn’t say the Conway supporter stepped on the woman’s foot on purpose, but a confrontation and an assault charge do follow. Maybe you can produce a video or other reliable report of violence blatant enough to somehow cancel out this one?

Catastrophe-Overclock

To all the people who said “aw, she looks fine” or “aw, he lightly stepped on her neck”

Despite appearing alert following the incident, Valle was taken to the hospital, where she was diagnosed with a mild concussion.

Anonymous

Hey America, the rest of the world is worried about you. Please don’t go completely nuts and start fighting each other. That would be really bad. Remember the last time you guys did that? It wasn’t so great. And frankly the rest of the world kinda needs you to keep it together right now. If you go losing your shit and turning your country into a big ol’ bar brawl it’s only going to encourage some of the other kids to do the same. And that would suck. A lot.

Can’t you just talk things out? You used to be good at that. I see you’ve got that medical marijuana thing happening. Maybe Cali can just roll a fat one for the nation and you can lie back on a hillside and look up at the stars and talk about space and the moon and how big everything is, man, and how, like everything is tooootally connected, and, you know we should go there, coz that would be cool. You were kinda cute when you were like that.

If you need a good counsellor to help you out I’m sure we can find one. You know, it’s normal to feel screwed up after a traumatic episode. And let’s face it, the last ten years have been pretty tough. Not that you’ve made it any easier on yourself. It’s hard to like you when you’re acting like an arsehole. But at least you’ve stopped picking fights with people who used to be your friends. That’s a start.

Truth is we still love you and we need you. We just need you to be better. So take care of yourself, and get back on your feet soon.

Cheers,
The World

Modusoperandi

Teller (#175) “I mean the kind of fear one has of Manson, Gacy or Joy Behar. A crazy person.”
Oh. They didn’t have that kind of fear, either. They had the kind of fear one has for the ill-informed but well armed and supremely confident incompetent, in that if they did provoke him, he might accidentally hit them when he lashed out wildly, particularly if they were unpopular among their neighbours, militarily weak and happened to be sitting on a bunch of oil that they certainly weren’t going to sell to American-based multi-national oil companies when the sanctions were inevitably lifted. So, not crazy crazy, but stupid crazy.
Still, close enough.

Antinous / Moderator (#176) “Amazing how some people can look at a video of a woman being assaulted and take that as an invitation to gas endlessly about their political philosophy. Humanity fail.”
Pah! What if I told you that my political philosophy hinges on not pushing women down and stepping on them?

Teller

I’ll buy that with exact change.

lorq

Brownshirts.

Hokkaido Hillbilly

Wow…even as a transplant Kentucky resident this is embarassing, to say the least.

Anonymous

I hate how everyone who is a conservative protester or a supporter of a republican candidate is now called Tea Party.

Rand Paul is a REPUBLICAN, his supporters are “rand paul supporters”.

Wish the Tea Party would organize so that jackasses stomping on people wont get grouped up with the “real” Tea Party. Since it isnt an official group anyone can call themselves Tea Party. And also the media gets to call all conservative or anti-government protesters as Tea Party. The “real” tea party are comprised mostly of Libertarians NOT republicans. Republicans are just as bad as Democrats, they all increase government and play party politics….republicans ARE NOT Tea Party and the Tea Party is NOT republican! But until the Tea Party official organizes, the lines will continue to be blurred and unrecognizably by anyone.

AirPillo

If I was passionate enough about something to go demonstrate about it like that, I would gladly take a kick to the head if it got my protest message onto the evening news.

Hopefully that will make her happy, too.

cleek

“It reminds me of those white SEIU labor members assaulting a black member of the tea party”

oh fer fuck’s sake.. Gladney’s story is completely full of holes, and the video contradicts nearly everything he said about the incident. he’s a grifter.

http://stlactivisthub.blogspot.com/2010/04/case-against-tea-partykenneth-gladney.html

Anonymous

My favorite parts of these Gladney posts 1. they think there are people who still haven’t heard about this claim or seen this video, so they feel really clever. 2. they always mention that he is “black” to suggest that this was in some way related to why he was “assaulted” (Breitbart actually yelled this at someone the other day, yet again); and 3. These people still think that this was a legitimate story since they are only aware of right-wing commentary on the matter and avoid all objective information sources. Other favorite beliefs of theirs: ACORN committed some sort of crime; The New Black panthers intimidated voters.

boingboingdave

Whether or not she was severely injured, my problem/question with this is why was this woman “detained” in the first place by a group of paul supporters? This wasn’t a situation as with Joe Miller where there’s a debate over whether or not they were on public property or not. I think it’d be hard to argue that this woman presented any sort of threat to Paul, and required some do-gooder citizens to save him by wrestling her to the ground. It wasn’t that long ago that people were showing up at town meetings and such shouting down candidates and representatives, so I’m confused why people now see some political lampooning as imminent danger.

grimc

Fair enough. But the second part of Uncle Geo’s statement was “..and often have no basis in truth.” And that’s really the meat of the matter, isn’t it?

Phikus

To be fair, I blame athletic supporters for violence at sporting events.

Uncle Geo

Wear boxers then.

;>)
- Phikus
  
  To do that, I would have to be thoroughly debriefed.

Keneke

I am seeing a trend of people getting so bold in their partisan actions that they forget about consequences. We are mere decades removed from lynches in our past. But now, instead of covering your bases, (mostly young) people are going out into the world, thinking they are entitled to safety no matter what they do.

Watching this video was like watching the Griswolds experiencing the poor man’s plight. Do you see the plight?

ROLL EM UP!

Modusoperandi

Teller (#144) “Bush they feared, and I don’t blame them”
Bah! “They” didn’t fear him. Look at it this way: Some Saudis train in Afghanistan and attack the US. In retaliation, the US invades Afghanistan and Iraq. Statistically, this means that if you piss off the US there’s a fifty percent chance they’ll miss you and hit your neighbour. It’s not great odds, but it’s better than Vegas.

zyodei (#154) “I think the question that should be asked is not whether Obama is worse than Bush, but which of Bush’s policies, exactly, Obama rolled back – seeing how that was basically his mandate.”
His continued, um, Dubyaness with Executive Power is troubling. Everywhere else, he’s far better than the alternative.

zyodei (#156) “Sadly, I have not yet figured out which camp exactly Paul Jr. falls into.”
He’s not a libertarian. He’s a conservative. I’d put him in the “True Believer (but really should know better)” rather than the “True Believer (dimwit)” (like Michele Bachmann) or “Cynical Manipulator” subcategory (like Boener).

Brainspore (#155) “I absolutely agree that we should be holding Obama to his promises and he hasn’t yet delivered on them.”
Actually, he’s not doing too bad, considering he’s fighting the triple-threat of conservative members of his own party, an opposition party that would rather watch the country burn than let someone else have the big chair, and the oddity of people expecting the Obama in their head (the liberal idealist who, with a moving speech, could fix everything) rather than the actual Obama (the center-right pragmatist).

Teller

I mean the kind of fear one has of Manson, Gacy or Joy Behar. A crazy person.
- Brainspore
  
  The problem is that’s not the kind of fear that results in other parties working toward your interests. If I thought my neighbor was a serial killer I wouldn’t be inviting him over to my place for a barbecue or helping to move his couch, I’d be putting extra locks on my door and shopping for a handgun.
  - Teller
    
    We agree.

travtastic

Well guys, at least she’s okay.

I can’t even begin to imagine how hard it would be to try and rationalize beating someone if they were injured or killed.

I’m trying to imagine a world where apologist trolls ran Boing Boing.

Next up: “Child Struck By Speeding Drunk Driver: The Consequences of Not Looking Both Ways Before Walking Across the Street”.

zyodei

I don’t know if this reflects worse on Kentucky or the Tea Party in general.

I will say, Kentucky and the Tea Party are somewhat similar – wonderful things ruined by the people in them.

teapot

If someone stomped my head at a political event they would soon be in hospital or possibly mortally wounded. I’m totally not joking. Violence is for morons, but if you are dealing with a true moron, then sometimes you have to speak their language.

I hope someone is charged over this, or American politics have sunk to an all-new low, thanks entirely to the lies and anti-democtratic behaviour of the republicans and the tea baggers.

America: please, PLEASE don’t fuck up next week or the world-image of Americans will once again drop to the shit-munching monkeys we all thought you were for voting Bush in again.

Oh and, Kentucky? The only good thing to come out of there is KFC.

Anonymous

Anonymous, please, use the powers you had to find the cat in the bin lady to track down these people.

Cowicide

Anonymous, please, use the powers you had to find the cat in the bin lady to track down these people.

I would LOVE that. I’m sure plenty of “lefties” like myself would like a word or two with these people.
Anonymous

First two rules, dude guy bro.

strangefriend

Anyone who reads the website Orcinus http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/ or has read David Neiwert’s The Eliminationists: How Hate Talk Radicalized the American Right isn’t surprised by this.

lubertdas

Despicable conduct, and as soon as you have video of Paul ordering his followers to go forth and assault people, I’ll attribute that conduct to him. It reminds me of those white SEIU labor members assaulting a black member of the tea party: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KnKjpZ7Tp8

I had to laugh though at the idea of the concept of an “award from Republicorp representing the merger of the GOP and business interests controlling political speech” because we all know that Democrats have absolutely no connection with big business and organized labor, and neither of those factions contribute any cash or manpower to the Democrats.

Both parties are thick as thieves with big business.

Lobster

You’re right, both parties are guilty of the same sins. Hypocrisy does not make someone wrong, only obnoxious.
Cowicide

Both parties are thick as thieves with big business.

Equally? No.

Both parties represent the corporatists and/or are corporatist parties. But to say the dems are just as bad as the republicans is a foray into ignorance. It may make you feel better to simplify things… but reality is far more complex.

Voting records. Look at them. Just look at them.
- Anonymous
  
  Well, now, Cow, remember the Republicans are owned by Big Oil and the Democrats are owned by Silicon Valley, with the entertainment industry having large options on both. That’s a very significant difference, and how it touches on individuals and their local governments is extremely complex (all politics is local, as they say)…. but…. the fact remains that neither party represents any non-business interests at all.
  
  There are some individuals with decency, personal honor, etc. the characteristics we like to think of as “statesmanlike” but the parties are a whole are vile, inhuman constructs with less morality than the ebola virus.
  
  George Washington warned us that this was inevitable if we allowed parties to exist. It’s played out just as he predicted.
  - Cowicide
    
    Well, now, Cow, remember the Republicans are owned by Big Oil and the Democrats are owned by Silicon Valley,
    
    You’ve obviously not done your research. If you think Big Oil doesn’t also own the Democrats, then you… well, obviously haven’t done your research.
    
    And… you also still haven’t researched the voting records as well, have you? Like I said, saying the Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans is ridiculous if you look at the overall voting record and their corresponding actions.
    
    Yes, I know it’s easier on the noggin to throw both parties down the river… but in the end, it’s an overly simplistic view of things not based on actual, solid research.
    - zyodei
      
      The problem with “looking at the voting records” is that the long term effects of many purpotedly “anti-corporate, pro-consumer” legislations is to make entry into market more difficult for small firms, and thus protect the corporations. So it’s not so simple as that.
      
      Granted, the Dems are marginally less unabashedly pro-corporate than the Repubs. But their overall efforts have helped enshrine the current corporotocracy almost as much as the Republicans.
      
      It’s worth noting that many libertarians promote the abolition of the legal entity of the corporation altogether, considering corporate laws a government infringement on the natural working of the free market.
Jackasimov

yeah, and as soon as the politicians these goons represent come out and apologize for the action of their goons I’ll just assume their completely cool with it.

I’d expect that from my representatives. You don’t?
watchout5

Why care so much about organized labor? The only people within that union that are donating to that political cause are the people within the union that specifically vote for and give money to the cause, anyone who objects to any part doesn’t have to give a dime to the union while working in the industry. At least when a union gives money, we know what union, who works for them, and in what industry the money is coming from. When you talk about big business, it could be ANYONE from ANY COUNTRY giving money for ANY REASON. At least labor’s intentions are clear, and if people within the union don’t like it they don’t have to give. With big business the shareholders don’t even get to vote, the money it stolen from them by their CEO and they have little or no recourse (see FAUX giving money to the republican gov ass.). So when you try to compare democrat and republican sell outs, you’re comparing apples and oranges. If a candidate wants to talk about global warming as a hoax, while receiving millions from international oil companies, that’s an important link that voters have every right to know about, just as much as the taxing and spending democrat taking union money from hard working American citizens. But don’t even compare the 2, at least when unions give money that’s American citizens, not Australian billionaires who think they have the right to buy our elections. FUCK THAT.

Also to the point of the ‘well this is probably an isolated incident”, you don’t have to look very hard to see this kind of shit happening everywhere in the country, even here in Washington state, a pretty solid blue state. There was a guy with a meat cleaver waving it while driving by a Murray rally, the guy who called Murray’s office and left numerous threatening messages and was sent to jail for a year, and a man arrested in Walla Walla county after assaulting a woman with a Murray poster. I understand not drawing quick conclusions about a group of people, but these “isolated” incidents have been creating a pattern as we get closer and closer to the election. You even had one candidate some place talk about leaving open the possibility of violent revolution if he doesn’t win. I know the entire tea party doesn’t want this, probably not even a majority, but unless I see some pretty hardcore conservatives rip these assholes a new asshole. How can anyone want to join a party that’s so mad at Obama they’re willing to hurt people? Talk about a buzz kill….
- lubertdas
  
  You don’t know much about how unions operate, do you?
  
  As a former union member, I can tell you that union leadership would take money from the dues I and other union members would pay and donate it to the political candidates of their choice, regardless of the political inclinations of the rank and file.
  
  I NEVER knew anyone that was in my union who contributed extra money to the union for political activities… we didn’t have the cash to spare.
Ugly Canuck

…and to fight big business, you’re gonna need big government: for the little people are just that.
- Ugly Canuck
  
  Little.

LeFunk

He seemed to stump her shoulder, not head. The woman looked quite happy afterwards.

Politics. Serious business.

Cowicide

He seemed to stump her shoulder, not head. The woman looked quite happy afterwards.

I hope you’re just an idiot troll.
- LeFunk
  
  “I hope you’re just an idiot troll.”
  
  Unlike somebody followed by a camera crew, marching into a bunch of T-tards, wearing a silly wig and a mocking poster?
  
  Seriously, was it supposed to create an eloquent discussion about the pros and cons of different political views and change some opinions or was it just an incredibly stupid taunt by somebody with a martyr complex.
  
  I hope the dolts who assaulted her get punished and the conflict will not escalate.
  - Cowicide
    
    “I hope you’re just an idiot troll.” Unlike somebody followed by a camera crew, marching into a bunch of T-tards, wearing a silly wig and a mocking poster? Seriously, was it supposed to create an eloquent discussion about the pros and cons of different political views and change some opinions or was it just an incredibly stupid taunt by somebody with a martyr complex.
    
    So now you want us to go to your house, throw you to the ground and apply tea-bag pressure to your head and neck?
    
    You’re not just a troll… you’re a gimp-troll, nice.
  - Cowicide
    
    Blame the victim much?

NatWu

As much as I hate the teabaggers, I’d hesitate to draw any generalizations from this singular incident. Still, I can’t say I’m surprised that people who belong to a movement because they’re angry would take some kind of violent action against one of the liberals they so despise.

Cowicide

As much as I hate the teabaggers, I’d hesitate to draw any generalizations from this singular incident.

Then don’t.

Karen Pack

Karen Pack describes herself as â€œa Christian, a Tea Party Member, a Constitutionalist and a Patriotâ€, is the leader of the Wood County Tea Party in Texas. But she also has a history with the Ku Klux Klan. Documents show that Karen Pack of Winnsboro, subscribed to the â€œWhite Patriotâ€ tabloid, and that Thom Robbâ€™s Knights of the Ku Klux Klan listed her as an â€œofficial supporter.â€

Roan Garcia-Quintana

Roan Garcia-Quintana of Mauldin, South Carolina is involved in several local Tea Parties and served as â€œadvisor and media spokesmanâ€ for the 2010 Tax Day Tea Party rally in Greenville, South Carolina. Garcia-Quintana recently joined the National Board of Directors of the Council of Conservative Citizens (CofCC), the largest white nationalist group in the country and direct descendant of the white Citizens Councils that fought to defend Jim Crow segregation during the 1950s and 1960s.

Peter Gemma

Peter Gemma, a resident of a Sarasota, Florida, belongs to the ResistNet Tea Party faction. Gemma is also a professional white nationalist. He served as head of Design, Marketing, and Advertising for the white nationalist Council of Conservative Citizens newsletter, the Citizens Informe — which has complained that minorities were turning the U.S. population into a “slimy brown mass of glop.”

Clayton R. Douglas

Sixty-four year-old Tea Partier Clay Douglas lives in Tucson, Arizona. The biker and one-time mayor of the tiny hamlet of Bingham, New Mexico is a member of the ResistNet Tea Party faction. Douglas uses his ResistNet website profile to advertise his Free American website and radio program — which has run racist stories like, “Are the Jews Behind the Destruction of America?” At a conference of another anti-Semitic group, Douglas once blamed Jews for the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

Larry Pratt

Larry Pratt of Virginia is a member of two different national Tea Party networks: Tea Party Nation and 1776 Tea Party. He has been promoting the gun and militia movement for years. In 1992 he spoke at a Colorado meeting of Aryan Nations leaders, former Ku Klux Klansmen, and adherents of so-called “Christian Identity” — a doctrine in which Jews are considered Satanic and persons of color are referred to as “mud people.”

Billy Roper

Billy Joe Roper is an enrolled member of the ResistNet Tea Party, a write-in for Arkansas Governor and a founder of the White Revolution. One of White Revolutionâ€™s rallies was held in Topeka, Kansas in May 2004, to protest the anniversary of Brown v. Topeka Board of Education, the 1954 Supreme Court ruling that outlawed Jim Crow segregation in education.
- zyodei
  
  OK, you’ve increased the list of confirmed Tea Party douches from 2 (in this video) to 7.
  
  But that’s still not representative of a movement of tens of millions of people.
  
  To summarize, the Tea Party has two wings. The Ron Paulian libertarian wing, and the Sarah Palin bible-thumping, GOP/Fox loving, terrist hating, idiot right wing.
  
  Libertarian philosophy is inherently non-racist, seeing how they by definition want to get rid of all racist laws (eg, drug war).
  
  To the detriment of America (not that it isn’t pretty fucked anyhow), the Palin/Fox news is winning. More TV watching dolts are coming out, and the sensible anti-war/bankster Paulians are getting disgusted and heading home.
  
  Sadly, I have not yet figured out which camp exactly Paul Jr. falls into.
  - Cowicide
    
    OK, you’ve increased the list of confirmed Tea Party douches from 2 (in this video) to 7.
    
    right… never mind those are actual leaders and all the other…
    
    [cow winces... stops]
    
    Red herring alert!!
    
    Is that all you got? Red herrings? Sorry, you’re not going to lure me into your inane distractions. Your weapon is to bore me to death with trite semantics, goal post moving and general point dodging.
    
    Your weapon is neutralized.
    
    Libertarian philosophy is inherently non-racist
    
    Red herring alert!!
    
    Is that all you got? Red herrings? Sorry, you’re not going to lure me into your inane distractions. Your weapon is to bore me to death with trite semantics, goal post moving and general point dodging.
    
    Your weapon is neutralized.
    
    drug war
    
    Red herring alert!!
    
    Is that all you got? Red herrings? Sorry, you’re not going to lure me into your inane distractions. Your weapon is to bore me to death with trite semantics, goal post moving and general point dodging.
    
    Your weapon is neutralized.
    - zyodei
      
      Your rapier of rhetoric is sharp today, my friend. Touche!

magneticwheels

so i click on this video, i’m not sure why, i guess because we all like having our prejudices reinforced, and i have to watch a commercial? in order to see something that is going to outrage and disgust me? i can’t put my finger on what’s grosser- my own rubbernecking at someone else’s suffering, or the fact that someone has decided they need to make a buck off me trying to see that.

ugh.

f-ing internet.

Chevan

Yeah, how dare someone want to cover hosting and bandwidth costs because people keep hitting their site to watch videos.
Anonymous

” i can’t put my finger on what’s grosser- my own rubbernecking at someone else’s suffering, or the fact that someone has decided they need to make a buck off me trying to see that.”

i’d say the latter, but i can’t decide what’s grosser – my criticism of the advertisers, or my possible motivation to say so in order to relieve myself of the guilt of said rubbernecking.

Anonymous

Brownshirts.

zyodei

Also, the headline is misleading. A “curb-stomp” is a brutal, deliberate, and cruel attack meant to inflict lasting, irreversible injury or death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curb-stomp

Any curb stomp would have to be considered either aggravated battery or attempted murder.

While inexcusable, and criminal, this did not really rise above the level of simple assault.

Cowicide

Also, the headline is misleading. A “curb-stomp” is a brutal, deliberate, and cruel attack meant to inflict lasting, irreversible injury or death.

Thanks for clearing that up. The big problem here is people don’t understand proper curb-stomp terminology.

Thank Jesus for people like you who faithfully serve the public interest by inducing trite semantics at times like this.
- zyodei
  
  No, it’s not just a matter of “trite semantics.”
  
  If you read the headline, or the title for the YouTube video, you would come away thinking that a gang of Rand Paul fanatics brutally and deliberately forced her to the curb for the purpose of ruining her face and/or killing her.
  
  What really happened, near as I can tell, is: in the middle of a scuffle, involving the activist wanting to stand next to Rand Paul for a photo-op, and others wanting to remove her from the area, she and a volunteer fell over. One of them got pissed off and held her to the ground. Another, seperately, kick/stomped her while she was down.
  
  It was wrong for the guy to hold her down, but it might or might not be at least somewhat understandable in context, in the heat of the moment-I don’t know exactly what happened before. The guy who kicked her has absolutely no defense, and should absolutely be tried criminally. It’s a shame that his apology was so cagey, and that Paul didn’t denounce him more swiftly and strongly.
  
  But the important point is that the guilty party consists of only one or two men. To imply that the entire group was involved, deliberately and with malicious intent, in mutilating her – as the term “supporters…curb-stomp” implies – is simply not supported by the video, and unnecessarily inflammatory.
  
  It’s worth noting that, in the full video, after he stomps her, everybody immediately backs off and releases her, collectively recognizing that they crossed the line.
  
  On other message boards, I see people saying things like “if those cameras hadn’t been there, they would have killed her.” It’s simply ridiculous.
  
  What bugs me about the vast coverage this has received is: ..is that, it plays off that relative of scheudenfreude, the unhealthy pleasure one experiences when one feels that everyone who has different beliefs and philosophies from you is some kind of subhuman, capable of deranged violence at the drop of a hat. Sure, there are 4% of people who are sociopathic, and 20% who are authoritarian, and these types do tend to gravitate towards the GOP (although not exclusively). But there are also people in the GOP for the sincere (and naive, inconsistent, and misguided) belief that the Repubs represent the best hope of the government just leaving them alone.
  
  That’s why there is so much interest in this story, with 20,000 comments on HuffPo. People enjoy being validated in their belief that the “other side” are a bunch of clueless ogres.
  
  You read the same thing on right-wing websites too. Pick out egregiously bad incidents, and use them paint the whole left as a bunch of “whale-kissing, Dukakis-hugging moon maidens.”
  
  But it’s simply not true. MOST people, at least most of those not brainwashed by religion or televised propaganda, agree on most issues – but disagree mostly on how to get there.
  
  What I wonder is, why mention this, twice in one day? What is so “happy mutant” about it? Violence occurs constantly throughout this country..what is particularly special about this that it deserves top billing?
  
  No mention in the archives, for instance, of the recent LeVelle DeSean Ming case, where *15* off duty, drunk NYPD officers grabbed an innocent cabby from his car and proceeded to beat him nearly to death..when a uniformed officer waded in to break it up..well..he was severely punished, and none of the 15 even got a slap on the wrist.
  
  Or the Anthony Abbate case from a couple years back, where a huge, drunk Chicago Cop jumps over the bar and proceeds to beat the tiny waitress for several sustained minutes, leaving her emotionally shattered. The next day, another officer threatened to plant drugs on her if she sought prosecution. He was given 2 years probation, and no prison.
  
  Both of those were far worse than this on several levels – involving sustained, premeditated violence from those paid to “serve and protect,” not just some random redneck who happened to volunteer for a campaign, and both involving gross and flagrant perversion of justice..but were never mentioned.
  
  Note, I am not bringing these up to justify what Profitt did in any way, because aggression is aggression, and it is always wrong. I bring them up only to ask the question:
  
  Why run this, twice? What’s so special about this incident?
  - Cowicide
    
    No, it’s not just a matter of “trite semantics.”
    
    [zyodei then proceeds to soil the thread with a large, rancid dump of trite semantics.]
    
    [cow sprays tl;dr on post]
    
    Neutralized
Anonymous

It may not have been a curb stomp by that definition, but stomping on someone while their head is on a raised platform is a great way to break their neck with relative ease. I think it’s sensible to differentiate this attack from the norm.

Anonymous

There is a pretty huge difference between “big business” and “organized labor”. Lumping them together almost as synonyms is nuts.

bjacques

If you play the video frame-by-frame it becomes clear that the woman was trying to attack everyone in the crowd at once and the guy only put his foot out in self-defense.

Well, the argument worked before.

jimmosk

Hat tip to Blue Bluegrass, which points out that one of the men who dragged her to the ground is wearing a button that reads “Don’t Tread On Me”: http://www.bluebluegrass.com/2010/10/25/republican-rand-pauls-brownshirts-assault-and-stomp-the-head-of-a-moveon-org-woman-before-the-ket-debate/

jjsaul

The tea-bircher spin on Fox is that she “tripped or fell.”

Sounds like a well-practiced response… I’d guess that guy’s wife is clumsy like that, too.

Don’t tread on me, indeed.

lubertdas

um…. I don’t know where you’re getting that info. I caught part of Fox and Friends this morning on the way out the door and they were discussing this incident.

The words they were using were something like, “disgusting incident”, “horribly wrong”, etc.

To paraphrase, they thought it was a terrible thing and that the idiots assaulting this woman should be arrested.
whisper dog

The Fox spin today appears to be that she represented a threat to Rand Paul, appearing in a wig and attempting to approach him as she did, and his supporters did the right thing by wrestling her to the ground for his safety.

Stephen

The number of posters here supporting what is obviously aggravated assault is a bit disturbing.

Kerouac

Not too long ago, this would have been a galvanizing event. Thanks to an overdose of right-wing lunacy that started when we had the audacity to elect a black man president, it is not even a blip on the screen of America’s collective consciousness. Cue Warren Zevon’s “Excitable Boy”…

Uncle Geo

As to the idea that we can’t apply a generalization of this violent assault to all Tea Partiers or extremist right wingers as a whole -well of course not every individual is violent asshole.

However when the Republican party deals in fear, teaches people to ignore reason and distrust science, spews propaganda and lies on a daily basis (through their own “News” channel), acts like babies by filibustering everything and encourages their supporters to view anyone who doesn’t believe the fantasy as traitors, then it should be no surprise violent things happen. Rand Paul, Glenn Beck, Michelle Bachmann and all those other Bozos are quite culpable. And in the shadows there has been a very real upsurge in armed militia groups preparing for some bullshit idea of a socialist takeover.

Leaders on the right have consciously engineered just the kind of mindset that causes these despicable things to happen. The only silver lining in this dark and dangerous cloud is that the the GOP’s own Tea Party Frankenstein creation is out of control and beginning to turn on them.

TheAntipodean

“International observers continue to voice concern over the fairness of upcoming elections, as pre-poll violence and vote-buying allegations increase.”

You guys should try this new form of government. Called democracy. One adult, one vote. It works amazingly well in civilized countries.

Bobby A

This is what we’ll always have as long as the system is based on us-versus-them. No more parties.

bjacques

You know, it’s Obama cozying up to the left and Jon Stewart mocking them that make the Tea Party angry enough to do things like this.

Wow, two mitigating comments already. (Poe’s Law alert: Mine is not one of them.)

Anonymous

Stepping on people to get what you want- a common republican / teabagger practice. Also known as “capitalism” in it’s worst form.

Allen Garvin

The Kentucky Post details another attack at the same event: “The second occurred after a Conway supporter stepped on the foot of a female Rand supporter, who recently had foot surgery, according to police. The woman was wearing a surgical boot, but after the injury, her incision was cut open. Police say she refused medical treatment and also filed an assault report.” (http://www.kypost.com/dpps/news/political/2-fights-break-out-during-paul_conway-debate-_5305909)

Anyone want to denounce, justify, or just generalize Conway & his supporters?

Stefan Jones

If only we had lowered capital gains taxes and abolished welfare these young men wouldn’t have been forced to extremes like this to protect Freedom!

Whoops, sorry, I forgot to breath there for a few minutes and what with the oxygen deprivation and all I started to think like a Fox News anchor.

daneyul

At least you hear someone calling for the cops (assuming they’re not calling for the cops to arrest the stompee).

Is Fox really saying she tripped and fell?

Anonymous

It was the stompee they were trying to call the cops on. In the Tea Party mind, her mere existence was a greater crime than the stomping, which was in fact a heroic act of resistance to the collectivists. As any Randian (Paul or Ayn variety) will tell you, those who get stomped, deserve it due to being leeches; those who do the stomping earned it through the force of their will, for they are the “superman.” In his college days, Rand would often force people, sometimes while tied up, to read excerpts from Nietzsche explaining such simple matters as the natural ruling class and its privileges. It’s called “libertarianism” and it is all about freedom.

Dan

Um, she’s clearly forced to the ground and held there while that asshole stomps on her. Pretty gross.

ADavies

What’s pretty scary are the comments under the video. People bending over backwards to justify this bullying.

I agree that it’s wrong to generalize about a group of people based on the actions of a few, but I’m also seeing a pattern.

Has anybody else read Bob Altemeyer’s The Authoritarians (which has been blogged about on Boing Boing by Cory)? The kind of behavior we’re seeing is a good fit with what Altemeyer found in his research.

MrJM

I find it remarkable how many libertarian-supporting commenters — presumably proponents of personal autonomy — are niggling over the degree of injury inflicted on the woman in the video.

For exercising her fundamental right to free speech (political speech, no less) her fundamental right to be free from unlawful violence was trampled upon.

But the champions of personal liberty cry, “It’s not that bad! Someone else did something like it somewhere else once! Oh jeezus — It’s not that bad!”

If libertarians do have principles, now would be a fine time to stand up for them.

Charlotte Corday

“If libertarians do have principles, now would be a fine time to stand up for them.”

As a libertarian, let me say unequivocally that what was done in this video was wrong.

It also would have no impact on my vote.

Anonymous

For those of us in the Not-USA part of the world, does anyone care to summarise who Rand Paul is, what he/she stands for, and what MoveOn is? All I can see is a random act of violence without any kind of context.

Anonymous

jere7my #144

Really, everyone in this socialist state here still thinks he’s great (as politicians go, I mean, he’s still “the man” to get there, and the republicans have shut down your country with no regard for your own people.

Anonymous

zyodei – Are you kidding me?

Don’t blurt out legal terms if you don’t have a legal education. “Simple assault”, for one, isn’t a legal term, and assault is defined by “creating apprehension in another person of harmful contact.” NO physical contact needs to take place for an assault to occur

BATTERY, on the other hand, is defined by “touching someone else without permission to result in harmful or offensive contact.” It doesn’t even have to inflict pain.

What we saw here was AGGRAVATED battery, plain and simple.

Acts most often defined under aggravated battery are: use of a deadly weapon, battery in which serious bodily injury occurs, and battery against a child, woman or police officer.

Wally Ballou

It’s easy to make a good case for government regulation of the abuses of capitalism.

What bothers me about the current administration is government itself becoming a player, with market stakes in the mortgage business, the auto business, etc. This is moving in the direction of a true corporotocracy.

AudioTherapist

And such hyper-aggresive cowardly small-minded self-righteous assholes would be the first to boast about America’s status as leader of the free world and icon of democracy.

There is simply no justification for this, even Robert Mugabe might be a little ashamed if his supporters were caught red-handed performing such barbarity in his name.

LeFunk and Zyodei, you guys worry me. Fretting about the exact nature and impact of the assault is so far from being the point as to be evidence of some psychopathic abstraction on both your parts.

Teller

“even Robert Mugabe might be a little ashamed if his supporters were caught red-handed performing such barbarity in his name.”

Y’know ‘ol Bob was probably just having a breakfast of imported farm-fresh eggs when you damned him with faint praise.

Seriously, though, that’s a vile and disgusting way to treat a protester and especially a lady. Truly the lowest of cowards.
LeFunk

“Fretting about the exact nature and impact of the assault”

I think it’s more about fretting about the incongruities between the comment and the video.

Although I dislike the Tea Party and find any kind of violence inexcusable, I also find that the unfortunate victim was essentially a troll (or martyr) and after the provocation seemed quite happy about the outcome (TV, yay!).

Mark Frauenfelder

He’s supposed to stomp her face. Big Brother is disappointed.

hallam

We can be pretty sure that Fox would not be describing this assault in this way if it had happened to a Rand supporter.

Fox News becomes a little bit more fascist every day. And as long as the GOP is in its grip they are a bigger threat to America than any of the phony enemies they rail against.

bradybrunch

I would like to see more context.

Did she attempt to approach Rand and the supporters got over-zealous in restraining her or did they randomly pounce on her with zero provocation?

There’s a big difference between the two. Thirty seconds more of video tape would make a big difference in this instance.

Not that it’s ever OK to do what they did, but it’s more understandable if the person in question was someone they believed to be a crazy person approaching a public figure. That person could have been attempting to assault said public figure, have a gun, who knows.

I’m a Democrat, for what it’s worth. I just think it’s important to get a more complete picture before passing judgment.

Anonymous

What’s with the wig?

DWittSF

Oh yeah? Where were you hypocrites when NPR was curb stomping Juan Williams last week?
#sarcasm #teatards

Antinous / Moderator

Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall down an open manhole and die. – Mel Brooks

Unmutual

What.
The.
Fuck.

According to police, the woman, identified by The Associated Press as Lauren Valle, said she tripped and fell on the ground after someone grabbed her blonde wig off her head.
She was then stepped on by a man wearing a Rand Paul t-shirt.

http://www.kypost.com/dpps/news/political/2-fights-break-out-during-paul_conway-debate-_5305909

Anonymous

I’m sure Fox News will have extensive coverage of this for the next week. Right? Right?

Sickening.

knoxblox

All I know is that when I heard about this (but hadn’t seen the footage yet), I immediately thought, “Oh great, what’s my asshole brother up to now?”

He lives in Kentucky.

Anonymous

America: Land of the free (unless you say something the tea party doesn’t like) and home of the brave (like that fucking hero who stomped on a fucking *woman* who was already on the floor)

I knew the tea party people were crazy, now apparently some of them are crazy *and* disgustingly, cowardly, violent. The worst irony is, these right-wing extremists are starting to resemble, in their batshit insane behaviour, the Red Guards of the Chinese cultural revolution; there are fairly deep parallels, as that too was billed as a grass-roots anti-authoritarian movement when in fact it was a transparent power grab by people at the top.

Suburbancowboy

I’m having a hard time telling, but the woman in the black t-shirt, does she step over the girl, or on the girl?

arkham deadfly

The most disgusting part is that nobody else stopped the guy that was stomping her. It’s apparently perfectly fine in Tea Party circles to hit a woman.
Stay classy, Teabaggers.

Counterglow

The supporters of Rand Paul and Joe Miller seem to have a lot in common. I understand that another Republican candidate, Rich Iott can get them an excellent deal on costumes that reflect those similarities. Brown shirts, fancy lapel pins, arm bands, the whole bit.

For those who might be wondering, Rich Iott is a Tea Party candidate who likes to spend his weekends dressing up like a Nazi SS soldier and running around in the woods.

Ugly Canuck

This “Tea Party” really supports some interesting candidates:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/26/us-veteran-killed-iraqis-tea-party

…does it not?

Neon Tooth

White men stomping pinned down women half their size makes Aqua Buddha cry.

lubertdas

Oh, that’s a good start! I’d add the following items:

When someone posts an item about how bad this person/party/organization is for doing something that a BB-approved person/party/organization has previously done, finish your drink.

When someone posts an item/link that goes to any person or sight that is in the least bit right-of-center, i.e. James Lileks you need to take a big drink whenever a commenter says something like: “Oh I used to think Lileks was funny, but politically he’s a wingnut”.

Any time someone gets disemvoweled, take a drink.

What else can you think of?

Ugly Canuck

Well, to be fair, some of us come here to learn more about other people’s prejudices.

Here’s a website about prejudice which some may find of interest:

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/terrorism-in-europe/

Thanks to Naked capitalism for the link! Keep following the money!: )

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/

Ugly Canuck

Classification without personal experience is already an act of prejudice, is it not?

Rand Paul supporters pin down and curb-stomp MoveOn activist - video

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