Gay prom panic strikes Australia

Australia's school system is making great strides in closing the bigoted homophobia gap with Mississippi: Hannah Williams, a 16 year old lesbian in ~~Sydney~~ Melbourne, has changed schools because she was told that she had to bring a boy to the prom, or no one at all.

Savannah, now 16, is also changing schools to be with her girlfriend and was happy to hear that their new school allowed same-sex couples to attend the formal. ''It was a homophobic issue and I feel extremely discriminated against at the old school,'' she said.
Sian Supski supports her daughter's decision to change schools. ''The idea that there had to be a gender balance at the dinner dance seemed to be discriminatory. It was a very difficult time for Savannah but she's an amazingly strong young person and we are very proud of her.''

Girls interrupted: same-sex couple banned from ball (via MeFi)

(Image: cropped thumbnail of a larger pic by Angela Wylie)

I write books. My latest is a YA science fiction novel called Homeland (it's the sequel to Little Brother). More books: Rapture of the Nerds (a novel, with Charlie Stross); With a Little Help (short stories); and The Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow (novella and nonfic). I speak all over the place and I tweet and tumble, too.

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Mona Street

The schools are here in Melbourne NOT Sydney…
Regards/
Anonymous

It’s Melbourne, not Sydney. Ivanhoe Girls’ Grammar School.
OzLefty

Melbourne (Ivanhoe to be precise) and the point of course is that there was outrage and the new school has no problem with it at all. Before you compare us any more with Mississippi…
mikeyg

Yt nthr stry bt ppl wth bnrml sxl prfrncs. Kp ll tht n th clst pls.
- Gillagriene
  
  Darling, there isn’t any room.
  
  But I think, if there’s stuff going on in the world you don’t wanna know about? YOU get in the f*ing closet.
- Anonymous
  
  A little hint: Hatred is an ugly thing. It illuminates your intellectual deficiencies.
Xopher

Anon 8:

The fact that one of the girls was a year below isn’t insignificant – generally schools try to keep formals ‘within the grade’, even if that distinction is probably a bit silly. I wasn’t allowed to attend my girlfriend’s formal when i was in senior because she was a year above me, and we were (at least to the outside appearances) a vanilla hetero couple.

Understandable, but in this case other girls were allowed to bring boys from a lower grade.
tuckels

As has been commented, this wasn’t a government run school. My (Australian Public) High School formal was attended by two same sex couples without issue.
- Xopher
  
  As has been commented, this wasn’t a government run school. My (Australian Public) High School formal was attended by two same sex couples without issue.
  
  While I’m glad the same-sex couples were without issue (it’s hardly appropriate for high-school students to have children), I don’t see the relevance here.
  
  LRF V’Z XVQQVAT SBE PGUHYUH’F FNXR
  - frogworth
    
    I don’t see what Cthulhu has to do with it.
Anonymous

Credit where credit’s due:

The school in question is Ivanhoe Girls’ Grammar in Melbourne, and the Headmistress is Heather Schnagl. Here’s the contact page if you’d like to tell her what you think: http://www.ivanhoegirls.vic.edu.au/contact

If anyone’s interested, here’s the school’s (utterly weak sauce) media release: http://www.ivanhoegirls.vic.edu.au/assets/pd/IVANHOE_GIRLS___Media_Release_10.pdf
Anonymous

Hello, I don’t usually comment, but I just wanted to say, in defence of he Australian education system, that this student attended a private non-government school, not a regular Australian high school; I don’t think this has ever happened at an Australian gov’t school, so it reflects the bigoted ethos of the private system, not the ethos of the Australian public education system. Both young women seem to have handled the awful situation really well. Go girls.
- adonai
  
  Anon – all private schools in Australia now receive hefty taxpayer dollars (originally set up as a blatant vote grab and so now of course no politician will remove it). If they’re going to take public money, they can damn well obey the anti-discrimination laws.
  
  Either that or change the school motto to “we hate fags” so at least they’re open about it.
  
  Also, Cory – we don’t have proms in Australia, we have formals ;) sounds classier, donchaknow?
willy

School district ordered to pay legal fees for Mississippi lesbian student
Mitch

Can we please stay backward for just a little while longer?
Anonymous

Although my school never had this problem, this would be one reason for students putting on their own prom. In my highschool, the students completely funded and managed the entire prom. One reason is that all school functions had to be alcohol free. All school dances had breathalyzer tests before you got in, even if you were legally allowed to drink. Since many students at the prom were of legal drinking age, this was a little unreasonable. So the students completely organized their own prom. Rented their own hall, set up the catering, the bands, the DJ, and all the other necessary stuff. If the students organized the prom themselves, the school wouldn’t have any power to say anything. Maybe not the best solution, but probably a good one.
Stickarm

Keep all that in the closet please.
You seem to have found yourself on the wrong side of your imaginary division. This might be a good time to start looking for the door.
Anonymous

Both the school and the girls, and the news media involved are spinning this particular story pretty heavily. It may not be a clear cut case of discrimination, or it may be, depending on who you hear it from.

The fact that one of the girls was a year below isn’t insignificant – generally schools try to keep formals ‘within the grade’, even if that distinction is probably a bit silly. I wasn’t allowed to attend my girlfriend’s formal when i was in senior because she was a year above me, and we were (at least to the outside appearances) a vanilla hetero couple.

There’s plenty of discrimination and bigotry in Australia, but when it comes to the education system there’s less than you’d think. Subjects on teaching and relating to gay, lesbian, and intersex kids are standard for many education degrees (at least at the big unis, like Uni of Queensland). I was out as bisexual by senior year, and took my bandmates to my formal as my ‘date’. It was a little controversial but they allowed it because we were all within the same grade.

On the other hand, this is a private school (Grammar schools are secular private schools, exclusive and expensive) and the private schools get a lot of freedom to discriminate that the public schools don’t.
Anonymous

There is no scientific evidence to prove any of the cross related bogus elements of christianity. Civilization goes back more than 2 million years; 1,996,000 years before the Greeks, Romans and the Jews and 1,998,000 years pre-dating the myth of christianity which is a mere 2010 years old. In the year 300 AD when Emperor Constantine, who to some was the first pope; went on to fabricate & market Christianity – a fantasy – which turned out to be one of the most hateful & evil concoctions ever perpetrated on the world.

I am the son of a catholic father who never went to church and a protestant mother who took us to church and Sunday school. Onward christian soldiers; I think not. Such absolute drivel. To be manipulated by a santa claus; an easter bunny and worst of all a bogus cross! One should appreciate each day of life and not expect another and if there is it might be given by a God of Love.

The Vatican basically supported Hitler and religion is responsible for more corruption and violence in the world. Pope Ratzinger was involved in the Nazi youth. The Pope with his blatant witchcraft related to the bible and its hateful beliefs; tries to rule with extreme prejudice against a world â€¦ that may fall victim to religions’ absolute evil. Many theologians state quite correctly that the birth; crucifixion; resurrection and other elements of christianity actually didnâ€™t even happen! The pope is running a bigger fraud than Madoffâ€™s $50 billion ripoff. Todayâ€™s evangelical extremists are like the nazis who cast others into ovens & are actually supremacists – who practice their bogus hocus pocus – and are trying to suppress and deprive others of their happiness and their legal rights in an open and proud society. Bring back the period when they threw the christians to the lions.

Einstein stated in a letter recently auctioned that the bible was a collection of primitive legends. He said believing in God was childish and he as a Jew is no different than another person and are not chosen by God. Do you want to be lambs at the slaughter or be wise and reject religious cultist manipulation? Mean & nasty; run by evil and bogus religious cults from Rome or wherever. Is this the world you want? The pope talks about ending prejudice and hate; what a hypocrite! Religion is a crutch for the insecure. Appreciate every day and if there is no tomorrow; then know that you were fortunate to have lived on this earth!

This bogus religious filth should be banned. It exists as a tax exempt structure which discriminates against human rights. The pope, bishops and mormons are cult members promoting discrimination against minorities. That bogus black book called the bible should be banned. Religion and the churches should now be exposed as a bigoted structure that gets away with hate mongering. Love between two guys or girls existed long before these cults existed. By enjoying their tax exempt status and benefits from the state it also puts churches at the mercy of the state; to be forced to adhere to the human rights laws. Religion is thriving like a cancerous growth on society that should be stopped in its tracks; outlawed & banned.

The Right Honourable Prime Minister of Canada Jean Chretien told the Vatican that there was to be no cross erected over the Canadian Parliament buildings figuratively speaking; when the Pope demanded the Prime Minister go against gay rights. An Alberta bishop had the audacity to say that The Canadian Prime Minister would go to hell for going against the church. Such outrageous evil threats. The Right Honourable Prime Minister in return; basically told the Pope to go to Hell! The Honourable Irwin Cotler, Canadian Minister of Justice, stood for equal rights for the gay community. With reference to protecting the children: The Honourable Hedy Fry, member of the Canadian Liberal Parliament, who happens to be a doctor who delivered many babies; spoke eloquently to defend the rights of babies being born and stated that she was in fact defending their rights by speaking on behalf of equal rights for the children and youth of the future — defending their integrity and dignity. Minority rights must be decided by a dignified judicial system and/or a compassionate government.

United States is supposedly fighting for democracy but within the U.S. they treat gays like secondary citizens. Being left-handed, black or being gay is just as natural. If blacksâ€™ or womenâ€™s rights were cast to the masses to decide â€¦ then the majority or lunatic religious fringe in this case — has the advantage to decide minority rights. The annual economic impact of gay travelers is about $63 billion in the U.S. alone.

A great story pertains to a boy at a catholic school in Oshawa, Ontario who wanted to take his boyfriend to his school prom. The evil catholic school forbid this. A father of one of the boys is an employee with General Motors Canada and the courageous union leader Buzz Hargrove stood up for the boysâ€™ rights. The boy took his case through the courts and because the evil catholic school was benefiting from government funding which demands equal rights void of discrimination; the judge ordered the school to allow the two young boys to attend together. Their limo arrived at their prom with adoring onlookers.

Tell them to take that cross and shove it where the sun don’t shine and pay their taxes along the way before they take that cross down forever with its final station; extinction. It is written; so therefore it shall be? We are the chosen people? Such a wicked fantasy. To see the religious lunatics manipulate government and our lives is shameful.

To think of Matthew Shepard choking on his own blood after being savagely beaten; virtually sanctioned by the church is evil beyond comprehension; yet is the same as boys being bullied into suicide; most likely being supported by the bullies parentsâ€™ religious cults. Bigotry and hatemongering against gays should be banned. It is a sometimes rare occurrence to fall in Love and to hold that person in your heart and be loved in return … it is something that should be celebrated! If it is between two guys or girls all the better. It takes even more courage to defend that LOVE!

My father fought at the front on D-Day in Normandy â€¦ through the Battle of the Scheldt to Germany and grandfather was a Sgt. Major at Vimy. My Dad who was a catholic — is alive today at 87 and doesnâ€™t believe in santa claus — an easter bunny or any of that bogus cross related filth.

A gay pilot may have saved the lives of nine US soldiers who just got killed.

A special compliment to the discharged soldiers … you are the finest soldiers indeed … in a battle and a war much greater than you will ever know!

Abused gay people should definitely talk to or write to their parents; friends; teachers & school principal … about the issue. Your story may save another person! You should strive to be great and one day you may have a respected platform to help others … like Elton John, Elizabeth Taylor, Ellen Degeneres & David Geffen.

Itâ€™s not the President, Generals or government behind disallowing gay rights â€“ itâ€™s the religious lunatics! Voodoooooooooooooooooooooo politics!
Anonymous

I cannot let this thread go without commenting that both girls seem to have supportive, loving, accepting parents who stand behind their daughters’ choice.
Black_Vase

Just out of curiosity, how many states do have gay proms?
- Anonymous
  
  They didn’t want an all-gay prom, they just wanted to be able to go to a standard prom as a gay couple.
  
  So now we’re all on the same page: most of them.
glittertrash

It’s the fact that these private schools receive government funding and yet are allowed to violate anti-discrimination laws at will that pisses me off. I have a lot of queer friends who are teachers, and it was a major issue for ALL of them in seeking teaching jobs that there is an entire, enormous, government-funded education sector that is allowed to not hire them, or fire them, for being queer. If the schools want to enforce their own magic-based rules for who can & can’t teach kids, they shouldn’t be accepting public funding, and I CERTAINLY shouldn’t know a solid handful of people who in the 21st century, in this supposedly tolerant country, are having to remain firmly in the closet in order to retain their employment.

I was one of those highschool queer kids who took my girlfriend from another school to my year 12 formal without issue, 10 years ago. Actually, I used to loan her my spare uniform and bring her to classes sometimes (we thought it was hilarious, the teachers generally rolled their eyes and let her stay). The only issue at the formal came from the Christian kids, who let us know en masse how gross they thought it was when we had a kiss on the dancefloor.
mgfarrelly

It’s odd, but whenever I read one of these stories of school admins being log-brained dopes I think about my own prom, where all the girls ended up dancing with each other in big groups, the guys did mosh circles (pardon us, it was the late 90′s) and yet there was no panic because of all the “same-sex” dancing.

It’s 2010, some girls dance with girls, get over it.
- BookGuy
  
  Here’s the difference, though: The girl-on-girl dancing at our proms was Chastity Dancing, which protects girls from getting too close to evil male genitalia. THAT’S why it wasn’t gay. Similarly, the moshing was strictly non-gay male bonding, serving as a way for the young men to tucker themselves out so they wouldn’t have any energy left to sexually befoul any of the girls.
anniearonburg

I thought Ja’mie King worked all this out ages ago…
mudpup

I’m clueless.
If you support your Childs choice to be gay, do you still discourage them about having sex until they are older, more mature. (safe sex talk comes way before this point in life)
- rebdav
  
  Gay or straight I will counsel my kids to wait until they have a reasonable shot at making a permanent bond. I am not sure why random recreational dating has become so important in the last hundred years. Sex is really fun but it is not supposed to be the thing our life revolves around. If you follow western cultural norms and let your sexual activities or orientation become what defines you it reduces you to some gonads that has a person attached somewhere who is often unable to see beyond primary and secondary sexual characteristics.(sadly that about described me and most schoolmates in HS and early university)
  So you don’t have the “The Talk”, you just answer questions when they come up or opportune times. Also NEVER make them feel bad about their feelings or encourage them to repress, just to seriously consider the consequences to them and their partner of acting on their urges.
  
  Of course you can never overcome peer pressure and lunch table talk but it is important for the kids to understand that love and a possible future comes first, the lust from sex can really cloud your vision and leave you together in a toxic relationship that neither really wants because sex does chemical things in your brain and makes you think you are more attached than you are.
  
  BTW why do schools need to have official dances anyways? It is almost as bad as requiring a license from the state for marriage.
  - Anonymous
    
    Sex is really fun but it is not supposed to be the thing our life revolves around.
    
    Your genes beg to differ.
  - mdh
    
    Sex is really fun but it is not supposed to be the thing our life revolves around.
    
    –facepalm–
    
    Then you are probably doing it wrong.
  - Gloster
    
    Sex is really fun but it is not supposed to be the thing our life revolves around.
    Well if it is just a minor issue, why wait, possibly years, for something that looks like a stable relationship?
    Sex either is important or it isn’t. If it is, don’t expect people to go without it. If it isn’t, why bother making rules for it in the first place?
    Plus, in 99% of all cases, one hardly spends more then a couple of hours a week having sex (if that…) Eating most likely takes up a lot more of your time. And thought. Yet you wouldn’t accuse anyone of “being defined by food” simply because it’s an activity they enjoy and take part in, within reasonable boundaries. It would take a lot of effort for a person to become “defined by sex.”
  - Antinous / Moderator
    
    Gay or straight I will counsel my kids to wait until they have a reasonable shot at making a permanent bond.
    
    I’d counsel mine to fuck around as much as possible when they’re young and get it out of their systems. Better promiscuous at 15 and single than at 40 and married with children.
    - caoimhinn
      
      Aninous – I think you’re probably not ready to be a parent if you really feel that way. Promiscuity isn’t a finite resource that exhausts by “getting it out of your system.” And encouraging your children to be promiscuous strikes me as a bit reckless.
      
      If you spend some time with the psychology literature, you’ll see that people who lose their virginity in their young teens often have troubled sexual relationships later in life.
      
      You should educate young teens and preteens about sex, but not shove them off into the world and say “have a ball, stay safe.”
      
      Even when young teens are educated enough to know about protection STIs and pregnancy, there’s an emotional and social component to sex that they won’t fully apprehend until they are more seasoned and mature. As a parent, I think it’s your job to guide the child until they can competently make these judgments on their own.
      
      Suppose your 15 year old daughter takes your advice and indiscriminately has sex with a four or five guys in her freshman year. She’s going to develop a very hurtful reputation very quickly, and that reputation will follow her throughout high school.
      
      I really don’t like this idea of “kids are smart enough to sort it all out themselves.” Children and teens don’t see the world the same way adults do. Full stop. They are maturing, and need to be given independence, freedoms, and responsibilities, but you can’t forget that they still need guidance on matters in which they don’t have a seasoned understanding.
      - Antinous / Moderator
        
        you can’t forget that they still need guidance on matters in which they don’t have a seasoned understanding.
        
        “Honey, I know that you want to enjoy yourself, but you should be thinking about how this affects your ability to make a businesslike marriage that enables you to pay the mortgage and inherit an IRA later in life.”
        
        People mostly seem to want to screw around when they’re young. It strikes me that the parental ‘guidance’ has more to do with squeezing them into a social norm than about helping them to find long term happiness. Unlike in the movies, plenty of people have multiple partners as teenagers (and later) and go on to have happy lives as adults. I’d rather discover whether I’m promiscuous or not before there’s a strong possibility for collateral damage.
      - caoimhinn
        
        @Antinous and Robulus: I’m not saying that it’s impossible to settle down, or that some degree of promiscuity isn’t normative for teens. That’s another matter entirely. You’re also inferring that I’m making some sort of statement about preparing young teens for marriage and economy security. Although I happen to think both of those things are great, in this discussion it’s a bit of a straw man; I’m not saying that we should discourage anything and everything short of courtship for marriage.
        
        You’re suggesting actively *encouraging* promiscuity as a parenting technique. And I continue to insist, that’s reckless and irresponsible. As an example, if I encourage my daughter to sleep around, and her peers label her a slut, I can’t help but feel personally responsible. Whether or not her peers are ignorant or immature is irrelevant. My daughter still has to grow up in a social environment where she bears a scarlet letter. I don’t think you’ll find much evidence to support a conclusion that growing up with such a reputation is healthy for a person’s psyche.
        
        And that only addresses (a small sliver of) the social consequences of youthful promiscuity. Even with a rubber, it’s still a behavior that carries some risks a youth might not fully apprehend. Needless to say, teens aren’t always responsible enough to pause before having sex and think, “do I have a condom? should I inquire about my partner’s history?” So the message here is circumspection with regard to sex. Not “go have fun, and good luck.” I think it would weigh heavily on your conscience if your child were to contract an STI or become a teen parent because of the libertine ethos you encouraged.
        
        Anecdotally, when I was fifteen (2000), word traveled quickly around school concerning who was sleeping with whom. The more commonly mentioned names were also the ones that were likely to travel in more troublesome crowds. I’ve got to think that as a parent I have a responsibility to discourage that, even while promoting independence. And I think there’s a way that you can do both of those things.
        
        Finally, as a factual matter, I should point out that there is conflicting information on whether early exposure to sex results in deviant behavior later in life.
        
        Compare: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071112140723.htm with http://www.physorg.com/news91723968.html .
        
        HOWEVER, there is a strong link between promiscuity in young teen girls and other risk taking behavior–cocaine use, cigarette smoking, binge drinking, and huffing.
        
        http://www.atypon-link.com/PNG/doi/abs/10.5555/ajhb.2004.28.1.3
        
        So, in conclusion, as a parent, I think it’s better to encourage your child to practice responsible behavior, rather than behavior that is statistically correlated with destructive conduct.
      - robulus
        
        I was a cool muso type throughout my teens, and fucked my brains out. I got into my current relationship when I was 19, and have been completely monogomous for more than twenty years now.
        
        Add one annecdote to support your hypothesis.
    - Brainspore
      
      I’m not sure that’s how promiscuity works but I’d be interested if anyone had done a study on the topic.
- mdh
  
  Asking obtuse questions is not ‘confused’, it’s ‘truculent’. obvious troll is obvious.
- freshacconci
  
  So, 16 year old straight couples don’t exist? Your child’s choice to be straight automatically means she’s jumping into bed with the quarterback?
  
  No, your child realises she’s gay and starts dating a girl. They have has much or as little sex as any other 16 year old out there and yes that does depend what sex talk she was given at an earlier age. But it has nothing to do with straight or gay.
  
  Maybe you should keep your mind out of the pants of 16 year old lesbians.
- Anonymous
  
  Are you thinking teen pregnancy is the only reason to put off sex? That’s the the only reason I can think of to change the advice you give your kids, and I’m going to give you the benefit the doubt.
  
  Basically, pregnancy is not the only reason to put off sex. Disease is also a risk, same as with heterosexuals(in fact, heterosexuals can often be more reckless since they don’t have the dangers drummed into them quite so much, same way women know better to avoid dark alleys even though young men are more likely to be attacked), as is the fact that throwing away your first time before you find someone special is a waste that you might regret when you’re older.
Loozrboy

Given that the school apparently allows same-sex couples at the senior prom (or so claims the linked news report), I’m inclined to believe that this is not so much a case of blatant bigotry as a misguided attempt to encourage the students of an all-girls school to socialize outside of their normal circles a bit. The principal seems concerned that if they didn’t have this rule, all the girls would just go with their classmates instead of bringing outside dates.

Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a dumb, unnecessary, insensitive rule, based on antiquated and heteronormative notions about girls’ social development, but the label of “bigoted homophobia” seems a tad harsh.
artaxerxes

”If we opened it up and said girls could bring another female they would all bring femalesâ€¦” said the principal of Ivanhoe Girls’ Grammar, Heather Schnagl.

I see, I see.
Pablito

The most galling thing about this is the shifting set of excuses being rolled out by the principal.

The school wants to present itself as tolerant and inclusive (says so on their website), but they also want to partake in a bit of discrimination.

Unfortunately, in Australia it is their legal right to discriminate as a private school (despite the fact they receive public money).

As far as the excuses go, the most accepted one is that it is an exclusively year 11 event. However if there is a problem regarding year level, why are year 10 boys allowed into the formal?

I think that it is also worth pointing out that the girls had the full support of their peers, which is quite a bit different to the Mississippi example.
13tales

My favourite bit of this story?

This girl (Hannah) and her girlfriend have decided to transfer to Swinburne Senior Secondary College, the same senior-high that I went to for my last year of highschool.

Swinburne is an incredible school, in short. It’s a public school, so they don’t have access to the same obscene levels of funding as private schools, but they manage to provide an amazing enironment and set of facilities.

They let students wear what they like (most Australian schools have strict uniform policies and dress-codes), allow students to call teachers by their first names, have a 4 day school week to allow the students who work (the school has a few “emancipated minors”) a day to do so (other students are free to come in on Wednesdays to study or work on their projects in the art studios/workshops), let students leave school grounds to eat lunch in the nearby park or in local cafes, and generally recognise students as the young adults that they are.

It was the most accepting and welcoming school I’ve been to, difference was accepted, and the disparate sub-cultures at the school got on fine with minimal friction. There were more than a few openly gay students, something that shocked me a little when I first started there, and nobody had any issues with it.
Basically, it was an academy for Happy Mutants ;)

Rock on, Swinburne \m/
- Anonymous
  
  Rock on Swinburne and rock on public education!
cella

16 years ago at my school in Melbourne, just as up its own arse as Ivanhoe Grammar, several lesbian students bought their girlfriends to the senior prom. The reaction was nothing more than a bit of eyerolling from the teachers. Come on Ivanhoe, enter the 21st century, like the rest of Melbourne.
DoctressJulia

No- you’re just a predictable, piggish man. I KNEW there would be at least one comment in her about how ‘cute’ or ‘hot’ these young women are. Ugh, gonna go puke now.
Brainspore

Only if you resort to making jokes that include the terms “the bush” and “down under.”