Will TSA genital grope/full frontal nudity "security" make you fly less?

Reuters wants to know: "Are new security screenings affecting your decision to fly?" (via Reddit)

I write books. My latest is a YA science fiction novel called Homeland (it's the sequel to Little Brother). More books: Rapture of the Nerds (a novel, with Charlie Stross); With a Little Help (short stories); and The Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow (novella and nonfic). I speak all over the place and I tweet and tumble, too.

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Cnoocy

I’m planning to drive from Boston to Atlanta and back this December specifically because of the new security measures. And I used to like flying.
Anonymous

im a nudist and i won’t be flying. not because someone might see or feel my junk…but because i haven’t authorized them to do so.
Cowicide

Was anyone else aware that the TSA changed its logo?
watchout5

The question is really poorly phrased, because air travel is still out of my economic range. I certainly would travel more if I could economically, but the TSA crap definitely changes the way I think about travel. I don’t mind it so much as to completely change my life, but I don’t think it’s necessary, or even a little bit helpful. You can stare at grandma’s tits all day long, you’re not making my flight anymore or less safe, you’re just being a dick. So if grabbing my dick to prove you’re a dick is what gets you off, grab away, but don’t tell me it’s for airplane security. That’s your own bullshit story to help you fly better, it’s not going to work on me. You’re not going to give me cancer with xrays for no reason, you’re not going to save a picture for all your friends later to laugh at like they’ve done with their own employees, so grab my fucking nuts already. Careful, I got BALLS OF STEEL.
bigboing

My 2-year old daughter was traumatized in 2008 when I was separated from her and frisked at HNL. She was hysterical, then sobbing for 20 minutes afterwards–a full 15 minutes longer than she had ever cried in her entire life. For the next few months she freaked anytime we had to stand in a line for any reason, and anytime she came near a person in uniform. This made our fantasy cruise vacation somewhat less fun, though two years later she seems outwardly to have recovered. Now I have two more two-year olds and we are passing on the fun (living on an island severely restricts our long-distance drives). I’ll reconsider when they’re older, and can be properly briefed beforehand.

I will say that the return through SFO was significantly better. As we approached the line, a TSA agent left his post, ushered me to the front of the line, made sure that I was holding my daughter through the entire process, assisted me with exorcizing my possessions, and even sent someone over to help me repair our stroller after the wheel fell off during screening. Dare I say they were civilized? Are they still, or did someone get axed?
nixiebunny

Running 97% in the fly-less-now category.

I assume the results are skewed, since people who actually fly (i.e., are in the air right now) aren’t allowed to use the in-flight WiFi to enter their choice, due to some bomb scare.

Or it might be an accurate poll.
Godfree

97% (including myself) say Yes. Seriously, tele-robotics is looking more and more like the way to go.
Ernunnos

Yes. If I pay for a genital groping on Craigslist, I don’t get an airplane ride thrown in for free.
EMJ

The choices are odd:

# Yes – I will make alternate travel plans to avoid intrusive security scans and patdowns (97%, 4,157 Votes)
# No – It is a necessary procedure to ensure terror plots are thwarted

I will make other plans vs its a necessary procedure???
masamunecyrus

I will keep flying because I fly by necessity. You cannot drive across the ocean, and if you could, it’d be more expensive than flying.

I will NOT like it, however, and my personal opinion is that all of the security dramatically harms the US tourist industry, which is a shame because the US has some of if not the most to offer to tourists in the world.
- Cowicide
  
  You cannot drive across the ocean
  
  Fucking boats…
  
  How do they work?
The Life Of Bryan

My best friend has a Cessna. He has yet to grab my balls or give me cancer. So nope, no changes here.
nanuq

I’d be much less inclined to travel in the US. Since I’m a Canadian, flight security is a little less of an issue (but not by much).
Church

The new new ones?

Fuck that. I haven’t flown in the past decade.
Anonymous

Buy stock in Greyhound, video teleconference equipment, and lead lined undergarment companies,…..

I remember riding the rails a couple of times cross country in the mid 90′s (Amtrak) being able to park at the terminal and arrive rested was nice.
Bottlekid

I haven’t flown since 2005. All of my vacations since then have been by car or train. Before that, I would travel by air at least 2 or 3 times per year. That may be easy for me being single with no distant family to visit, although I do miss Europe. But it’s a simple decision to make. In order to board a plane, I have to agree to be microwaved and photographed naked by the second guy from the left on the evolutionary chart or I have to be fondled by the same in some airport. No, I don’t think so. And I cannot fathom how any parent could allow thier children to endure this obscene surrender of liberties.
- johnphantom
  
  Yeah Bottlekid, I’m in the same boat (or plane?)
  
  I haven’t traveled by air since ’06. I live somewhere in the mid-southeast and drive to MA to see family and friends, but I can only fly to St. Thomas, where I grew up, to see friends there. I do not relish the thought of the TSA doing a nude scan or groping my balls, but I will submit to it in silence to not attract attention to myself when I go.
EH

Oh Reuters, your clients the airlines don’t get to know how much the TSA is affecting my decisions regarding air travel. If the airlines (or Reuters) have a problem with it they can sack up and fight back against it themselves. This is a moment for people and companies to do the right thing without market research.
Anonymous

No, it totally plays into my voyeurism fetish and desire to have no control while other people look at me naked
- Cowicide
  
  Ah, the gimp contingency.
  
  What sort of gimp are you, anyway? Any good gimp would shut the fuck up, eagerly go through the full-body scanner, then BEG for a rough frisking afterwards.
  
  If they insist that you don’t need to be manhandled because you’ve already gone through the porno-scanner… you should then flop to the ground, whimper and roll around until they tase you (and then start laughing in hysterical bliss).
  
  Seriously, what sort of airline passenger are you? You certainly aren’t up to TSA standards.
fxq

I stopped flying the day they took away my mini swiss army knife keychain (1997).
Wardish

I no longer fly for anything but a family emergency.

I can’t stand security theater, it offends my intelligence.

I do miss the days when I could get on a plane with my leatherman on my belt. Now such would have me locked up as a felon.
ethicalcannibal

We’re planning on driving from the Seattle-ish area to Disneyland next year because we both refuse to fly. We are considering the possibility of taking the train, but will most likely drive. Flying? No way. It’s directly related to this security theater crap.
Anonymous

Like others have said, I *already* avoid traveling to the USA thanks to their previous policies, so no, it won’t make me fly less. But it certainly won’t encourage me to change that…
tgjer

Yes. I absolutely refuse to either undergo thorough genital groping, or allow TSA to take naked pictures of me.

I may try going to Canada, or seeking out smaller airports that don’t do this, but I don’t long those loopholes will last. And having to travel from NYC to Montreal (6 hour drive) just to get on a plane will definitely make me reconsider the necessity of a trip.
Anonymous

I travel from the UK to NZ quite a lot – last time I went via the US, the herded us like cattle into these long corrals where they finger-printed and retina-scanned us.

And at that point I decided that the US was drifting into fascism, and I wasn’t going to return to the US until it stopped. It hasn’t.

You’ve got to get rid of the billionaires that are corrupting your politics people. Nothing is going to work out until corporate money is separated from democracy. You’re losing it.
Daemon

It’s certainly going to keep me from flying in/to the US.
Noodlehead

I’ve spoke to a bunch of friends overseas, and all of them have canceled plans to come to the States as a result of this security theater.

I have no plans to ever fly with this nonsense in place. It’s humiliating for the sake of nothing.

Hopefully, Americans will get angry, and though sheep aren’t exactly threatening when they’re angry, it might be enough to starve the industry into change.
Wendy Blackheart

I’ve always been a little leery about flying. I’ve only flown once, to Florida. It was shortly after 9/11, when security was tight, but not unreasonable (at least for me. I was 18, and I was a nice white girl from New York going to Florida with a suitcase and three dozen bagels. It might have sucked for others, but I wasn’t really noticing that then.)

However, when the choice is getting shot full of radiation and being seen naked by a strange security guy, or getting invasively groped by some twat with a badge…it doesn’t look good for my flying future. Both those options make me *very* uncomfortable. While I may be a pervert, I *choose* when to get naked in public, for fun, in a comfortable surrounding.

Plus, I was sexually assaulted – the idea of being either forced to be viewed naked via a scanner in front of strangers, or forced to submit to a full body plus genitals pat down by a stranger both make me sick and would likely not be a good thing for my mental health.

My fiancee and I are talking about going to Texas to visit family, and we’re leaning towards driving. Considering we’d need a car when we got there anyway, it works out to be approximately the same price to drive as to fly/rent a car. Plus, we can stop and do fun things on the way.

I do want to go to Europe at some point though, so I’m hoping that either I can fly out of Canada which may be more reasonable in terms of security, or I’ll have to wait and save up and do the boat thing. :-/
- Anonymous
  
  Driving from Florida to Texas is absolutely doable, don’t worry about it. It will take 2-3 days, but my grandfather drives from Florida to California to visit family once or twice a year.
  
  Yeah, no flying for Hubby and I. Last time I flew was 2006, on a family trip to Europe. I was patted down at one point, and even back then it felt awfully invasive. I’d love to take my husband to visit Ireland, but we aren’t willing to fly with all this ridiculousness going on. We’ll just continue to road trip within the continental US.
Bierchen

I have considered taking a vacation in the US next spring. Thanks to boingboing’s ongoing coverage of security theater madness I remembered just in time why I have been avoiding air travel all these years.

Fortunately there are many nice places around here I can visit – and I don’t even have to take the plane.
simplify

From the comments on the Reuters article.

Scientific health reasons why people should Opt-Out of going through unproven full body scanners http://bit.ly/ci3M7m

Doctors, incl Nobel Laureate, request TSA cease using & independent eval of full body scanners
http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2010/05/17/concern.pdf
Roy Trumbull

I don’t fly for the simple reason that it’s unhealthy. The seating in aircraft today is such that getting blood clots in ones legs isn’t a matter of if but only a matter of when.

The possibility that security will apprehend a suspect requires that the suspect be dumber than security and that is unlikely.

In the great pecking order the bottom 25% of a graduating class go into quality control. The ones who don’t graduate go into security.
dw_funk

Do I find the TSA’s tactics disgusting? Yes. Will it effect my plans for the future? Probably not.

Maybe I’m just a pessimist, but I don’t think a boycott will ever spread widely enough to actually impact the airline companies’ bottom lines to the point where they will lobby for a change in TSA procedures. I’m more than happy to add my voice to the din: the TSA is an inefficient, stupid organization that only serves to inconvenience travelers and give the appearance of something being done about scary brown people.

Unfortunately, I don’t really have much of a choice; the difference between a five-hour flight and a two-day road trip is significant, especially with a car that wouldn’t make it too much further than the next state over. I plan on opting out whenever possible and wearing my GSA gear next time I go to the airport; it might be nice to let homophobia work in my favor for once.
dw_funk

ugh. effect=affect. How embarrassing.
Anonymous

As a pregnant woman, I am highly concerned about the exposure to unnecessary radiation.

Having been a rape victim a scant 5 years ago, I still suffer from PTSD, including panic attacks and flashbacks. The mere thought of such a machine exposing my body in such a way sets my heart racing, and any serious thought into the new pat-down procedures brings me to the brink of a panic attack. Because I’m pregnant (and breastfeeding as well), I am unable to take the heavy sedatives that keep panic attacks from becoming full-blown flashbacks.

I didn’t mind the security procedures after 9/11. I thought it was silly when I was asked to remove my 1/8″ thick soled flip-flops. (I have caught athlete’s foot from airport security twice since then) Now, we have passed into the realm of pure charlatanism, and it seems that most of the country has wool over their eyes. The time saved by air travel over ground travel is fairly valuable to me, but not at the expense of my children’s health or my own mental health. Should air travel become necessary for me before we return to reasonableness, I will loudly use my 1st amendment right of free speech to declare my desire to exercise my 4th amendment rights.
Hught

Well I could quit my job or learn to live with the knowledge that some poor TSA agent will wake up in a cold sweat screaming over the visions of an old nude fat man.

Decisions decisions
Anonymous

I haven’t flown since 2008. Am considering flying to another state in March. If I had the car option (I do not) I would rather drive and avoid the flight drama. Unfortunately I am pretty sure that one cannot take the train from my state to the desired state, and if it did, trains run so late that most of my vacation would be taken up on transport.

Ugh.
tape

The TSA’s “security” measures had long since driven me to stop flying. The only way I’m going to fly is if a family member or very, very close friend dies or is about to die.

The last time I flew was 2004, when my grandfather died. For Thanksgiving this year, I am making a two-day drive from Boston to Wisconsin. Part of this is that for the first time in my life, I have a car that can make a trip longer than 12 minutes without me being concerned that it won’t make it, and I’m kind of excited to take a big Road Trip for the first time as a driver. But yes, a big part of me seriously considering the option to drive is that I cannot stand the thought of the absurd little dance that the TSA makes air travelers do, which gets more and more absurd every year, and now involves the possibility forced naked pictures or intense groping.

In short, the TSA can go fuck itself if they think I’m submitting to that horseshit.
lectroid

I moderately disliked flying pre-9/11. I now LOATHE it. Some of it is the utterly pointless security nonsense. The idea that a medium sized tube of toothpaste or bottle of shampoo is some sort of ‘threat’ is, of course, utterly ridiculous. A lot more of it the horrible service offered by the airlines in their race to the bottom of the price pile. The treatment of people like so much cattle, the increasingly tightening luggage restrictions, the trend of turning more and more airline functions into self-service kiosks, means that up to a certain point, it’s simply not cost-effective OR time-effective to fly anymore. Driving beats flying for any highway trip that can be completed in under a day.

What I see happening more and more is that flying is only worthwhile anymore for those people who, via credit cards or frequent travel manage to get themselves to a point where they’re in permanent upgrade land. Having just recently made the 2 day flight from NZ to the US, I can tell you that the security theater was frankly the LEAST of my problems. Trying to balance out my luggage to just the right weight and size without incurring tremendously inflated overage fees was far more painful than the constant removal of my laptop into its own little bin for the xray machine.

Curiously enough, I was NOT subjected to either the backscatter machine nor the ‘enhanced patdown.’ But it was still enough to make me break out in a cold sweat at the thought of having to fly anywhere any time soon.

Here’s hoping all my relatives in the midwest stay healthy.
Anonymous

The last time I flew was nearly two years ago and I haven’t flown since, precisely because of all the security nonsense. I have two small children, at the time they were 1 and 3. Of course I had to do all the usual–take my laptop out of the case, put all my carry-ons on the scanner (including diaper bag and stroller), take off my shoes and coat for scanning, all while wrangling two very little kids. They also made me take the shoes and coats off my babies, remove the baby from the baby sling (sling had to go through the machine with my shoes), send my three year old through the metal detector to a complete stranger on the other side (scary for her), and then pass my baby through before I could go through myself. When we finally got through to the other side, I had to totally bust my @ss to get my shoes on, their shoes on, the baby in the sling, the stroller put back together, the laptop back in its case, all the diaper bags etc in hand, again while wrangling the two little ones and being trod on by all the people behind us, pissed because we took so long in line.

Yeah, things will be harder when traveling with two kids, but I find airline security beyond the pale. It’s not worth it. And now with the choice between scanner/”pat-down?” At my daughter’s school they teach the kids that their body is theirs, that no one else has a right to see or touch it. Why should it be different for adults? What am I teaching her if I willingly go through it–or make her go through it?!!

The real truth is, if someone really wants to blow-up/crash an airplane, they will find a way and no amount of security (even if it were really effective, which I don’t believe it is) will stop them. People are smart, flexible, adaptable, and thrive on that type of challenge.

On a side note, I’m sure that survey self-selects people who are changing their habits because of the security issues. Otherwise, there’d be a HUGE drop in the number of people flying, which there isn’t.
tylerkaraszewski

No. Sure, it’s an annoying and pointless policy, but I’m not going to skip my vacation because of it, just like I won’t skip my vacation because airline food tastes bad or because international cell phone roaming is unjustifiably expensive. I’m not so idealistic that I’d rather stick it to the man than see my family on Christmas or vacation overseas.

In short, I disagree but I’ll cave, just like most others.
- querent
  
  I’d have to say bad food != being photographed naked or aggressively groped. But that’s just me.
  - tylerkaraszewski
    
    You’re right, they’re not equivalent. Your comment implies that you think the scan is materially worse. You’re also right when you say it’s just you. The naked scan will make almost no material difference at all to me. I’ll spend a few seconds going through a slightly different looking machine than I used to, otherwise the whole process will be identical to before. I’d gladly trade that for a filet mignon dinner.
    
    I know we’re supposed to be all outraged at this violation of our Victorian sense of modesty, but I just don’t care that much. I care about as much about being seen naked in this scanner as I care about being seen with my shirt off, which to say that at the appropriate fine and place, not much at all. Being scanned at the airport is going to embarrass me the same amount as being seen in swim trunks at the beach. But that’s just me.
    - Anonymous
      
      Well, it’s nice you don’t mind, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be your choice. Obviously there are many people who care, not just querent. Why don’t you care about what they want?
Anonymous

no way…haven’t flown for a few years. doesn’t look any more entertaining to do now.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4646/dontflyforfreedom.gif ;)
radixe

there’s no “No, I’ll fly more because I want to be groped” option?
- Cowicide
  
  See here.
RufusTheGreat

I really cannot avoid flying, but every time I plan to opt out then write a nasty letter to the airline about being groped, assuming I am groped. Yeah it’s not the airline’s fault, but rest-assured that if *they* complain enough things will change or someone will at least do some independent safety analysis of these devices. If the airlines can get TSA to set up quicker lines for business and first class customers, they can get that analysis done (i.e. money still matters of course)

Unless of course the groping is done by a tightly-dressed, fish-netted, shapely TSA female agent, in which case I will write a completely different letter and fly more often.
Anonymous

I’m disappointed that the survey is only “yes”, “no”, “don’t know”. Where’s the “Hell Yes!” option.

Fortunately I live outside the “land of the free”. I can’t see any reason to visit by any means of transport, but I certainly will not be visiting if it requires me to undergo a genital grope from a same-sex official.
Anonymous

i live in SoCal (have for the past 22 years since i pilgrimed here at 18) with family in the midwest.

eff this whole gub’ment scare bullsheet. they can frighten submission out of some… but i’ve been to scary places (CDC# K8133*), so it will take more that that.

i’m riding the rails for the time being (and taking in great scenery as i do it) for my annual “lookit me, ma! i’m all grow’d up!!!
giax

I don’t like anyone to see me naked without my consent and TSA (or even my doctors) aren’t those I consent to invade my privacy in that area.

I now fly only when I really have to. That includes seeing the old and sick mum the next time in a few years (unless there’s an emergency).

Can TSA legally naked scan those who are under 18? Isn’t that pedophile activity in that case since those naked scanners that TSA marketed for so long as “not storing and not transmitting” can store and transmit those images?

How good are those naked scanners anyway if I have to remove even paper money from my pockets before being subjected to that digital picture rape? It can’t distinguish a 10 euro note from a weapon? No wonder El Al doesn’t use them.

I wonder what kind of material would work as a thing to provide some real privacy for those scans (sort of the same way as any RFID crippled device should be protected in a faraday cage). Metal underwear? Kevlar underwear? Underwear made from euro bank notes (if I can’t have a bank note in my pockets would the money be naked scan proof then)?
julian_t

Most of my flying is required by my work, so unless I decide on a wholesale change of life I’m likely to keep doing it and put up with the increasing indignities and inconsistencies.

It doesn’t bother me too much if someone sees me in the buff – as long as they don’t actually point and laugh out loud – but I am going to read up on the health aspects of the radiation. I’ve done my share of working with X-rays over the years in research, and I’m wary of taking a full-body dose more than very occasionally.

I can also understand how others may not feel the same way about their bodies being seen, and I’d hope that strenuous efforts would be put into providing a neutral, non-threatening alternative. Unfortunately, from what I’ve read, the alternative pat-down seems designed at least in part to be a punitive response to not wanting the scan.

I’m just waiting for these machines to come into widespread use here in the UK, when we’ll be treated to the spectacle of Ryanair managing somehow to charge us for their use… :-)
Amelia_G

I scaled flying back ca. 2006 when they started taking my hair apart because of the barrette holding together my bun. There’s something awful about being taken apart like that. A TSA agent in S.F. told me, soon your glasses will be enough to set these machines off.
Anonymous

There are many places I would want to visit that can only be reached with any reasonable amount of time and money by airplane. But I have come to the depressing resolution that I will not be seeing these places, and the people I care for, any time in the near future, because I refuse to be treated like a criminal at the county lockup by ignorant and ill-trained rent-a-cops with Federal authority.

I am fortunate to live in New England, where enough bus and train options exist for local and regional travel. I never thought I would see the benefits of Amtrak! Wide seats, 120V AC hookup, a club car with food and booze, even restrooms that aren’t coffin-sized. All this for a few bucks more than the bus, and I can spread out and get work done while riding the rails. For all but international travel, why would I want to fly?
Cowicide

See more sights driving the car and no brownshirt pawn creep thugs are staring at my junk while I’m doing it.

The corporatists are tightening their grip on us every day. What was ludicrous only a decade or so ago and would have shut down the country in national outcry… is now accepted, commonplace, the norm. Pacification in full effect.

America is turning into the Escape from New York movie except the prison is the entire country (except for the gated mansions, of course).
Anonymous

Yep done with flying.

The scanners and grouping are part of the reason.

The Kabuki security theatre insults my intelligence and I refuse to participate.