Comments on: One law for them, another for us: is it illegal to record the police on the job? http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Tue, 21 May 2013 19:39:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: flytch http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975873 flytch Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975873 this guy should be a cop no more!!! this is way over the top!!!.. I was passed by a cop yesterday... I was doing 70mph on a 65mph road... and he was doing 80! most cops become cops so they can speed and skirt the laws... This really gets me mad!!!! I agree with fireinwinter on this... this was way over the top!!!... this guy should be a cop no more!!! this is way over the top!!!.. I was passed by a cop yesterday… I was doing 70mph on a 65mph road… and he was doing 80! most cops become cops so they can speed and skirt the laws…
This really gets me mad!!!! I agree with fireinwinter on this… this was way over the top!!!…

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975625 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975625 It is interesting to dwell on how many people have thought in some way about this issue. I am in the UK and we have seen video evidence increasingly used in cases of police malpractice. I wonder if this state trooper ever thinks about the 800,000 people whom have watched this event and what they are thinking about his actions. It is interesting to dwell on how many people have thought in some way about this issue. I am in the UK and we have seen video evidence increasingly used in cases of police malpractice. I wonder if this state trooper ever thinks about the 800,000 people whom have watched this event and what they are thinking about his actions.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975902 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975902 My feelings about the motivations of police comes from knowing a few personally including one in training. It seems to boil down to a few common traits: - They have deep contempt for other people. Everyone who they don't know personally is a bum, crook, or defective moron. Not unlike how Archie Bunker disliked all blacks except for the ones next door that he knew. - A lack of empathy - It is canned authority. They don't have to earn respect they just get hired and then they can demand it. - An intense desire to be obeyed and if you threaten that they freak out. This includes calling them out on an obvious mistake. In turn they blindly obey those above them. This is like a dog mentality. My feelings about the motivations of police comes from knowing a few personally including one in training. It seems to boil down to a few common traits:

- They have deep contempt for other people. Everyone who they don’t know personally is a bum, crook, or defective moron. Not unlike how Archie Bunker disliked all blacks except for the ones next door that he knew.

- A lack of empathy

- It is canned authority. They don’t have to earn respect they just get hired and then they can demand it.

- An intense desire to be obeyed and if you threaten that they freak out. This includes calling them out on an obvious mistake. In turn they blindly obey those above them. This is like a dog mentality.

]]> By: spencercat http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975906 spencercat Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975906 "An armed society is a polite society", assuming said society follows the 10 commandments and has a basic understanding of right and wrong." That's one big whopping assumption. “An armed society is a polite society”, assuming said society follows the 10 commandments and has a basic understanding of right and wrong.”

That’s one big whopping assumption.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975917 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975917 They want to monitor us more, but they hinder us from monitoring them, even when we are within our legal boundries. Its because they do not want to be held accountable for their actions. Even when people get them on camera doing things wrong real justice is never served. Remember Oscar Grant. They want to monitor us more, but they hinder us from monitoring them, even when we are within our legal boundries. Its because they do not want to be held accountable for their actions. Even when people get them on camera doing things wrong real justice is never served. Remember Oscar Grant.

]]> By: Ivan R. http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975918 Ivan R. Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975918 The cop watched too much detective shows... Should be banned to carry guns and put to some safer environment. The cop watched too much detective shows… Should be banned to carry guns and put to some safer environment.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975919 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975919 I ride although not a sport bike and I don't do wheelies. But I do have a permit to carry a concealed pistol and I do carry. If a guy pulled around me, blocked me, and got out of an unmarked car with gun drawn I'm not saying I would have drawn my weapon (after all he already has the drop on me) but I would have viewed it as extremely threatening. The cop told him three times to get off the bike before showing a badge or identifying himself as a police officer. Bike jacking? This cop should be disciplined. And before you label me a cop hater, I have a son who is law enforcement. I am very supportive of them when they act professionally. I ride although not a sport bike and I don’t do wheelies. But I do have a permit to carry a concealed pistol and I do carry. If a guy pulled around me, blocked me, and got out of an unmarked car with gun drawn I’m not saying I would have drawn my weapon (after all he already has the drop on me) but I would have viewed it as extremely threatening. The cop told him three times to get off the bike before showing a badge or identifying himself as a police officer. Bike jacking? This cop should be disciplined. And before you label me a cop hater, I have a son who is law enforcement. I am very supportive of them when they act professionally.

]]> By: cjp http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975666 cjp Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975666 It is quite legal to videotape the police in Canada, apparently. This week it was announced that an officer with the Toronto Police Force will face criminal charges of assault with a weapon after his beating of a peaceful protester at the G20 summit was videotaped by at least two witnesses. Toronto Chief of Police, Bill Blair, was also forced to apologize after falsely claiming that the first tape had been tampered with - a fact disproved by the second recording. This incident and the resulting serious charge against the officer would indicate to me that not only should it be legal to tape the cops, it should be considered the moral prerogative of any concerned citizen who is witnessing abuse of power. It is quite legal to videotape the police in Canada, apparently. This week it was announced that an officer with the Toronto Police Force will face criminal charges of assault with a weapon after his beating of a peaceful protester at the G20 summit was videotaped by at least two witnesses. Toronto Chief of Police, Bill Blair, was also forced to apologize after falsely claiming that the first tape had been tampered with – a fact disproved by the second recording.

This incident and the resulting serious charge against the officer would indicate to me that not only should it be legal to tape the cops, it should be considered the moral prerogative of any concerned citizen who is witnessing abuse of power.

]]> By: marmite turkey http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975672 marmite turkey Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975672 Aggressive cops notwithstanding, any motorcyclist that pulls wheelies in traffic at over 100mph is an arsehole who needs to have their license taken off them. What an arsehole. Aggressive cops notwithstanding, any motorcyclist that pulls wheelies in traffic at over 100mph is an arsehole who needs to have their license taken off them. What an arsehole.

]]> By: Loraan http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975934 Loraan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975934 What part of, "Honor thy father and thy mother," and, "Keep the sabbath holy," has anything to do with a universal moral code? The majority of the commandments have to do with ways that Yaweh wants his followers to treat him, not how people should treat each other. Let's see... "I am the lord your god." Okay, so universal moral code goes right out the window there, since he's not the lord my god, and most other people neither. "No gods before me." "No graven idols." "Don't take my name in vain." "Remember the sabbath and keep it holy." Uhh... hey, Yaweh. When are you going to get to that universal moral code you were talking about? "Honor your father and mother." Seems reasonable. "Don't murder." "Don't cheat on your spouse." "Don't steal things." "Don't lie about what people did." Uhhh... that's it? That's your big universal moral code? A second grader could have come up with that. That's what we're supposed to base the morality of our entire society on? "Don't covet things other people have." Okay, a second grader probably couldn't have come up with that. One point out of ten. What part of, “Honor thy father and thy mother,” and, “Keep the sabbath holy,” has anything to do with a universal moral code? The majority of the commandments have to do with ways that Yaweh wants his followers to treat him, not how people should treat each other. Let’s see…

“I am the lord your god.”

Okay, so universal moral code goes right out the window there, since he’s not the lord my god, and most other people neither.

“No gods before me.”
“No graven idols.”
“Don’t take my name in vain.”
“Remember the sabbath and keep it holy.”

Uhh… hey, Yaweh. When are you going to get to that universal moral code you were talking about?

“Honor your father and mother.”

Seems reasonable.

“Don’t murder.”
“Don’t cheat on your spouse.”
“Don’t steal things.”
“Don’t lie about what people did.”

Uhhh… that’s it? That’s your big universal moral code? A second grader could have come up with that. That’s what we’re supposed to base the morality of our entire society on?

“Don’t covet things other people have.”

Okay, a second grader probably couldn’t have come up with that. One point out of ten.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-976705 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-976705 reply to Antinous/Moderator.. and then the Samurai class were eliminated.. reply to Antinous/Moderator..

and then the Samurai class were eliminated..

]]> By: Hel http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-976455 Hel Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-976455 My fiancé and I had an experience yesterday this makes me think of. A few weeks ago, our car was wrecked when someone hit it while my fiancé was stopped at a light. We found out on Monday that the car is officially totaled. We went to the police impound lot on Tuesday to get all of our stuff out of the car. There was a sign on the window in the impound office which said something like "You are currently on camera. Making audio or video recordings without the agreement of all parties is illegal in this state. Do not make audio or video recordings." I said to my fiancé "Funny how there was no indication before we walked in that there were video cameras, and we never consented to be recorded. Guess the consent only counts when it's theirs!" My fiancé and I had an experience yesterday this makes me think of. A few weeks ago, our car was wrecked when someone hit it while my fiancé was stopped at a light. We found out on Monday that the car is officially totaled. We went to the police impound lot on Tuesday to get all of our stuff out of the car. There was a sign on the window in the impound office which said something like “You are currently on camera. Making audio or video recordings without the agreement of all parties is illegal in this state. Do not make audio or video recordings.” I said to my fiancé “Funny how there was no indication before we walked in that there were video cameras, and we never consented to be recorded. Guess the consent only counts when it’s theirs!”

]]> By: Cynical http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-976474 Cynical Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-976474 Further to Looran's comments above me, the politest society I have had the pleasure to experience is easily Japan, which is neither armed nor follows the ten commandments. Perhaps "a polite society is a polite society" would be more accurate? Further to Looran’s comments above me, the politest society I have had the pleasure to experience is easily Japan, which is neither armed nor follows the ten commandments. Perhaps “a polite society is a polite society” would be more accurate?

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-976476 Antinous / Moderator Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-976476 You have to at least consider the possibility that Japan is polite because, until the second half of the 19th century, samurai could summarily execute people who got on their nerves. You have to at least consider the possibility that Japan is polite because, until the second half of the 19th century, samurai could summarily execute people who got on their nerves.

]]> By: knoxblox http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975726 knoxblox Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975726 Move along, move along. Nothing to see here. They gone? *WHAM* Move along, move along. Nothing to see here.

They gone?

*WHAM*

]]> By: CLamb http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-976238 CLamb Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-976238 There's a related article by Radley Balko, this one on "How to Record the Cops", at http://reason.com/archives/2010/12/21/how-to-record-the-cops There’s a related article by Radley Balko, this one on “How to Record the Cops”, at http://reason.com/archives/2010/12/21/how-to-record-the-cops

]]> By: kevinsky http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975983 kevinsky Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975983 I hate tough guy cops who think they can harass people for filming them, and I hate tough guy cops who leap out of their car waving a gun, but I'm glad this prick got a ticket for doing wheelies on a crowded highway at those speeds. Christ, what a couple of assholes. I hate tough guy cops who think they can harass people for filming them, and I hate tough guy cops who leap out of their car waving a gun, but I’m glad this prick got a ticket for doing wheelies on a crowded highway at those speeds.

Christ, what a couple of assholes.

]]> By: Ubernostrom http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-976243 Ubernostrom Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-976243 I just love how the officer leaps out of the car, gun at the ready, demands that he get off the motorcycle serveral times before finally stating "state police". If this were in Alaska, where we are not required to have a permit for concealed carry, and that were me, I probably would've shot him thinking he was trying to steal my bike. I just love how the officer leaps out of the car, gun at the ready, demands that he get off the motorcycle serveral times before finally stating “state police”. If this were in Alaska, where we are not required to have a permit for concealed carry, and that were me, I probably would’ve shot him thinking he was trying to steal my bike.

]]> By: kevinsky http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975992 kevinsky Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975992 ""An armed society is a polite society", assuming said society follows the 10 commandments and has a basic understanding of right and wrong." A world where everybody is armed and biblethumping? I'd never sleep again. Sounds horrific! I assure you, I know right from wrong better than most of the bible-believers I've ever met. I also know the bible better than most of the bible believers I've ever met, have any of these people even read the damn thing? For one thing, if they had, they wouldn't be touting it as a decent guide to morals or ethics. You're better off reading Moby Dick or Harry Potter if you're looking for morals and ethics. “”An armed society is a polite society”, assuming said society follows the 10 commandments and has a basic understanding of right and wrong.”

A world where everybody is armed and biblethumping? I’d never sleep again. Sounds horrific!

I assure you, I know right from wrong better than most of the bible-believers I’ve ever met. I also know the bible better than most of the bible believers I’ve ever met, have any of these people even read the damn thing? For one thing, if they had, they wouldn’t be touting it as a decent guide to morals or ethics. You’re better off reading Moby Dick or Harry Potter if you’re looking for morals and ethics.

]]> By: fireinwinter http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975738 fireinwinter Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975738 I get irrationally angry about this. Insane, foaming at the mouth, want to punch someone, pass out from my rage angry. No, seriously. My heart is racing as I type this. Cops who try to stop people from filming them, cops who try to prosecute people for filming them are filth. They are corrupt and they filth. This is one of my buttons, to say the least. RRRGH. I get irrationally angry about this. Insane, foaming at the mouth, want to punch someone, pass out from my rage angry.

No, seriously. My heart is racing as I type this. Cops who try to stop people from filming them, cops who try to prosecute people for filming them are filth. They are corrupt and they filth.

This is one of my buttons, to say the least.

RRRGH.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975742 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975742 Well of course the motorcyclist is an asshole, but what has that got to do with the main point of this story, which is whether or not cops can be videotaped? The specifics of what the suspect is up to here are entirely irrelevant (and banal), so what you are doing seems like trolling in this context, unless your mission is truly to prowl the internet to decry reckless driving wherever you find it. Well of course the motorcyclist is an asshole, but what has that got to do with the main point of this story, which is whether or not cops can be videotaped? The specifics of what the suspect is up to here are entirely irrelevant (and banal), so what you are doing seems like trolling in this context, unless your mission is truly to prowl the internet to decry reckless driving wherever you find it.

]]> By: technogeek http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975746 technogeek Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975746 It should also be noted that, even where one can argue that there is a reasonable expectation of privacy, that has generally been held only to constrain DISTRIBUTION of the photos, not taking them in the first place. You may need a model release before you can publish the pictures, where "publish" has varying definitions -- but my understanding is that you're allowed to take them, and to make them available to anyone who was actually a witness to the event depicted. Someone really needs to do a national educational campaign, informing police departments of what the law actually says in this regard and asking them to inform all the officers. Not that this will stop some folks from trying to assert that the law is whatever they want it to be. But at least it'd put them on record as having been told otherwise. It should also be noted that, even where one can argue that there is a reasonable expectation of privacy, that has generally been held only to constrain DISTRIBUTION of the photos, not taking them in the first place. You may need a model release before you can publish the pictures, where “publish” has varying definitions — but my understanding is that you’re allowed to take them, and to make them available to anyone who was actually a witness to the event depicted.

Someone really needs to do a national educational campaign, informing police departments of what the law actually says in this regard and asking them to inform all the officers.

Not that this will stop some folks from trying to assert that the law is whatever they want it to be. But at least it’d put them on record as having been told otherwise.

]]> By: falnfenix http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975748 falnfenix Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975748 FYI, Maryland DOES have a carry law. It's just rare to find someone who actually has a permit to carry. FYI, Maryland DOES have a carry law. It’s just rare to find someone who actually has a permit to carry.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-976018 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-976018 The motorcyclist was only one of several cases, and even if the charges were ultimately dropped in that case, the article cites other cases. Police have shown a pattern of intimidating people who videotape them by pressing spurrious charges, and just because the charges were dropped in one highly visible case does not mean that the tactic is not effective in other cases. The motorcyclist was only one of several cases, and even if the charges were ultimately dropped in that case, the article cites other cases. Police have shown a pattern of intimidating people who videotape them by pressing spurrious charges, and just because the charges were dropped in one highly visible case does not mean that the tactic is not effective in other cases.

]]> By: Steve http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975772 Steve Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975772 Gone are the days when a conservative like myself usually trusted the police and even defended them, in polite conversation/debates. This just reaffirms my belief that we don't need gov't, just an armed populace. "An armed society is a polite society", assuming said society follows the 10 commandments and has a basic understanding of right and wrong. Gone are the days when a conservative like myself usually trusted the police and even defended them, in polite conversation/debates.

This just reaffirms my belief that we don’t need gov’t, just an armed populace.

“An armed society is a polite society”, assuming said society follows the 10 commandments and has a basic understanding of right and wrong.

]]> By: WaylonWillie http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975774 WaylonWillie Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975774 i'm sorry, but both of those guys are stupid i’m sorry, but both of those guys are stupid

]]> By: cjp http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975780 cjp Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975780 The problem is that that's a huge assumption to make. Knowing the difference between right and wrong has never been a strong suit with the human race. Violence begets violence, but we should be growing as a species to move beyond that historical truth. Living our lives without weaponry is a step into the future. As a Canadian, I can tell you that it is possible to create a society where one feels secure without a sidearm. The pen (and the video camera) are far mightier weapons. The problem is that that’s a huge assumption to make. Knowing the difference between right and wrong has never been a strong suit with the human race. Violence begets violence, but we should be growing as a species to move beyond that historical truth. Living our lives without weaponry is a step into the future. As a Canadian, I can tell you that it is possible to create a society where one feels secure without a sidearm.

The pen (and the video camera) are far mightier weapons.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-976041 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-976041 Cops on a power trip believing laws are for civies ...get used to it Amerika Cops on a power trip believing laws are for civies …get used to it Amerika

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-976303 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-976303 It got my heart going watching a guy dash out of a car with a gun pulled. It got my heart going watching a guy dash out of a car with a gun pulled.

]]> By: IronEdithKidd http://boingboing.net/2010/12/21/one-law-for-them-ano.html#comment-975795 IronEdithKidd Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-975795 More disturbing to me is the fact the PGC recently came out of Federal oversight and immediately starts behaving the way they did to gain oversight to begin with. Seems you can't get a leopard to change it's spots. You need to change the leopard. More disturbing to me is the fact the PGC recently came out of Federal oversight and immediately starts behaving the way they did to gain oversight to begin with.

Seems you can’t get a leopard to change it’s spots. You need to change the leopard.

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