/ Xeni Jardin / 10:55 am Sat Jan 8, 2011

Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona, was on Palin's infamous "target" map (Updated)

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UPDATE, 11:59AM PT: Tucson, AZ University Medical Center on CNN: Gifford is alive, and in surgery. "I can confirm that she was shot in the head," said a hospital spokesperson. Among the shooting victims in critical condition, one child was shot.

Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) was among the estimated 15 or more victims of a shooting outside a Safeway store in Tucson, Arizona within the past hour. So far, 15 are reported wounded, 6 dead. Details are still coming in, but what has been reported so far: she was "shot point blank in the head," the assailant(s) fired some 15 or more shots into the crowd, and this took place at a "town hall" sort of event during where Giffords was speaking to her constituents. One shooter is reported to be alive and in custody.

Early news reports: NPR, NYT, CNN, Tucson Citizen.

Above, a tweet the congresswoman published just before the gathering began.

Also: "Congresswoman Giffords is married to astronaut Mark Kelly, making her the only current member of Congress to have a spouse who is a member of the Armed Forces, and the only member of Congress to ever have a spouse in space." Kelly is the Commander of Space Shuttle Mission STS-134.

Gifford was among those in Arizona whose offices were targeted with vandalism and threats during the health care debate in 2009.
(via @nytjim)

Giffords was also one of the lawmakers Sarah Palin "set her sights on" in the Palin PAC infographic below (takebackthe20.com). The congresswoman and others are targeted with simulated gun sights on a map of the United States.
(thanks, @niftyjames)

UPDATE, 12:11PM PT: Sarah Palin has issued a statement here.

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Source: Sarah Palin's TAKE BACK THE 20 website.
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Below, Rep. Giffords' opponent ran this ad during the election cycle:

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  1. I see a civil suit a-brewing. And there should be, to bleed off some of that radical right money into liberal bank accounts.

  3. How many people have to be assassinated before we admit that the right deliberately cultivates domestic terrorism?

  4. Like Sarah Palin cares… She has no conscience – she’s proven that over and over. So her hyperbole got someone shot… big deal, right?

  8. But remember to be open-minded and not equate her supporters with murderous thugs, even though it looks like one of them was a thug and went out and murdered a whole bunch of people.

  9. So now the contemptible worms of the extremist right have crossed the line from hateful rhetoric to murderous action.

    Heartbreaking and enraging, just not surprising.

  10. Don’t jump to confusions. Giffords also favors increased border security and praised Arizona’s SB1070. That could just as easily be what’s behind the attack. (Not to mention old fashioned insanity.)

    1. How about don’t jump to conclusions, we don’t know any details about the shooter, let alone the motive.

      The case is barely 2.5 hours old here. We’re entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.

    2. Okay, let’s get this straight, it’s possible that anyone of any political persuasion might have committed this attempted mass-murder. However, we know the following facts:

      1. Over the past decade there has been an enormous amount of eliminationist rhetoric coming from the right wing, almost all of it aimed at elected Democrats.
      2. There has been a significant uptick in right wing violence in the past few years.
      3. There are hundreds of politicians in Arizona who voted for SB1070.
      4. Rep. Gifford did not vote for SB1070, as she was a US Representative at the time.

      So we’re left with the ridiculous assertion that, out of all the anti-immigrant politicians in Arizona, some pro-immigrant person decided to attack one of the ones who had least to do with SB1070’s passage. How does that even begin to make sense?

      1. “1. Over the past decade there has been an enormous amount of eliminationist rhetoric coming from the right wing, almost all of it aimed at elected Democrats.”

        Whereas the exterminationist rhetoric has generally targeted undocumented immigrants, trans people, lesbians and gays, Muslims, and the actual left. Like when they dehumanize people, characterize people’s identities as deception, accuse dissidents and whistleblowers of treason, etc.

  13. Why would a supporter go out and shoot her? Surely they’d be an enemy?

    Regardless, condolences to her family and friends. That is one sad screenshot, indeed. Her tweet before was to the effect of “@person Happy New Year to you too”, which is really quite tear-jerking.

    I like the idea of Safeway being a town hall, though.

  15. This is really sad. The murderer may have already been a thug, but shame on all the talking heads who have been using violent language in their political rhetoric.

  16. I think it’s unfair to (as of yet) link right wing extremism to this murder.

    But luckily the great American mass will.

    1. I think it’s unfair to (as of yet) link right wing extremism to this murder.

      It is the way to bet. Confronted with an issue, the left waves conflicting signs, chants idiotic slogans, gets frustrated and goes home. The right, when they see something they don’t care for, begins building bombs and fondling their firearms.

        1. Yeah, who ever heard of a socialist revolution?

          Compared to extremist right wing violence, how many examples of those have you seen recently?

          1. Right wing extremists would have to step up their killing pace by several orders of magnitude if they ever hope to catch up with the left. Fortunately for everyone, right wing extremist violence is for the most part just a creation of the media.

          2. Fortunately for everyone, right wing extremist violence is for the most part just a creation of the media.

            Many dead people in Oklahoma City would beg to disagree with you, if they could. They cannot, however, being dead.

          3. Ah, so you’re going for non-answers now, are you?

            You’re an apologist for an assassin. Not really something to be proud of, if you give it even a minute’s serious thought.

            Somehow, I doubt you will.

          4. Are you seriously not aware of any recent socialist revolutions?

            I have said nothing in way of apology for this or any act of assassination.

          5. Are you seriously not aware of any recent socialist revolutions?

            In the United States? I thought I kept up with the news, but I missed that one.

          6. OK, then. Maybe you’ll list all the ones that have occurred in the last 50 years.

            Or maybe you’ll change the subject again.

            Guess which way I’m going to bet.

            And yes, you are in fact an apologist for assassination. Grow up, put on your big girl panties, and deal with that.

          7. “Right wing extremists would have to step up their killing pace by several orders of magnitude if they ever hope to catch up with the left.”

            What is the atomic mass of carbon? I need to check whether we’re in the same universe, because your statement is backwards in this one.

            In the United States alone, in the past century, there have been assassinations of labor organizers and environmental activists, massacres of striking miners and their families, lynchings of critics of the 1st World War, murders of lesbian, gay, and trans rights activists, COINTELPRO…

          8. I’ll see your “assassinations of labor organizers and environmental activists, massacres of striking miners and their families, lynchings of critics of the 1st World War, murders of lesbian, gay, and trans rights activists, COINTELPRO…” and raise you union-organized violence, assassination of a US president and attempted assassination of two others, anti-war demonstrations-turned-riot…

          10. “anti-war demonstrations-turned-riot…”

            I was injured at two anti-war demonstrations which the police attacked. I was severely beaten, and I was not fighting. One of the witnesses, the second time, later told me that one of the cops was shouting at me to die, but I was in too much pain to hear or see anything. I still have flashbacks and post-traumatic stress disorder.

            So precisely how am I or anyone on the left responsible for the violence I’ve suffered?

            You have crossed the line into victim-blaming.

            I have also been beaten by neo-Nazis.

          11. Fortunately for everyone, right wing extremist violence is for the most part just a creation of the media.

            Seriously?

            I think that statement would be a tough sell for the survivors of the OKC bombing, not to mention the family of Dr. George Tiller.

            Assuming that wasn’t heavy-handed sarcasm on your part, I have to say it’s chilling to think that such self-deluded people exist in the world.

      2. I’m just saying it’s wrong to draw conclusions based on your own views of certain groups of people before proper evidence has come about.

        I despise the Tea Party as much as any reasonable person, but I’m not saying he was a gun totin’ hillbilly right away.

    2. yeah, except the right wing does it all the time (linking extremism to a specific religion/party).

      I hope she survives and regains healthy as fast as possible.

  17. Sarah Palin has always had this connection with firearms because of her public opinion of such, and she uses that in her campaigning to appeal to gun supporters (typically, the right). Obviously Palin did not hire a hit, nor does she likely have any connection to this murder.

    However, if Palin turns Giffords into a red sight like the ones who have retired, she needs to be removed from public view. The intelligent thing to do would be just to remove her name. To claim victory on this would indirectly connect her to it and I would hope it would bring the investigation into Giffords’ murder to Palin’s doorstep.

    However, I know Palin is immune and even if she was the gunman herself, she could probably get away with it…

  19. The fact that Palin had her targeted and used a bullseye, and then this happens, does seem rather suspicious. Let’s pretend we’re FOX News: “Sarah Palin has targeted Democrat assassinated”

  20. Well Sarah’s gun-site map has been yanked. I’m sure she’s got her handlers working on how they’ll spin this right now. If it really was one of her tea party nut jobs, maybe now she realizes it not just a game where you can say anything you want without consequence.

  22. Now we’ll see how the RightWing PR handles this. They have several options, but the most likely will be to throw one of their ‘followers’ to the public, painted as a lone, psychopathic killer, not influenced one bit by their vitriol and treasonous portrayals of liberals and Democrats as engaging in illegal activities aimed at destroying the ‘real’ Americans’ government.
    Watch the celeb politicians and ‘entertainers’ disavow, slander, distract and dance out of this pitiful and tragic event.
    Welcome to Corporate/Redneck Amerika, folks.

  25. We don’t know anything about the case.
    However, “setting your sights” on people or asking for people to “help prescribe the solution” and putting gunsights on people in those contexts is irresponsible at best, an illegal threat/incitation to murder at worst.

    At the present it is most sensible to treat the murder and Palin’s hate message as being two separate things.

  26. It doesn’t matter what the motivations of the shooter were. When a vice presidential candidate of one of the major parties allows “shoot them” to become the subtext of her rhetoric…and then people get shot, there is a serious lapse of responsibility, and one that should have consequences. It is an absolute shame that we as a society tolerate public figures whose joking and half-intentioned references feed into this type of tragedy. Sarah Palin should apologize publicly, no matter what the link between her and the shooter.

  27. Gifford’s opponent had target picture fundraising events:
    http://www.blogforarizona.com/blog/2010/06/jesse-kelly-event-is-this-wording-intentional.html

    Giffords office vandelized after healthcare vote:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/health/policy/25health.html?_r=2

    at a town hall she attended a gun left behind
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/10/gabrielle-giffords-town-h_n_255656.html

    “One of the callers to the Service Employees International Union said, “I suggest you tell your people to calm down, act like American citizens, and stop trying to repress people’s First Amendment rights… That, or you all are gonna come up against the Second Amendment.””

    Can i amble to some conclusions now?

  28. Giffords did not support SB1070—in fact she was a vocal critic of the measure.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2010/jun/19/legal-fight-over-sb-1070-could-sink-rep-giffords/

    She did support deployment of National Guard troops along the border, and received endorsements from groups advocating greater border security.

    The murder of an elected official is necessarily political. But we need to know more before we can assess the politics.

    1. I predict better security or at least more. Look at the Secret Service before and after Lincoln’s administration for more information.

      This is a goddamn shame and will only increase fragmentation here.

      No one won today. No victory parades for any person or party here.

      This is shit.

      The snarky comments here are fucking revolting.

  30. How can Palin proclaim that she is pro-life and support a map that “targets” individuals. The recent death of Gabrielle Giffords is another example of what a poor presidential candidate Palin is for our country. By the way, I am a pro-life catholic.

  31. Update from msnbc, the congresswoman is currently still alive and is in surgery. Very critical condition.

  32. Speaking of 2nd Amendment arguments, one is that looser gun laws lessen the risk of this kind of incident, since they increase the chance that a bystander can act in defense. Arizona is an open carry state…how’s that working out?

  33. I agree that too many opinions are being thrown in the arena as the facts are being sorted. We don’t know the reason behind the murder/assassination. However, we have to ask ourselves as a country: How much hatred and incitement can the uneducated and sociopathic adherents to this Fascist drivel take? While factually there are no links yet known between the shooter and a political motive, it would be equally asinine to ‘wait’ until the media responsible for inciting the action puts its spin on it, when there are facts available.
    The facts are: A democratically elected representative of the people was killed. The rep had been targeted by major participants, including Palin, for ‘removal’ as an obstacle to their agenda.
    This, there is no denying.

    1. ‘However, we have to ask ourselves as a country: How much hatred and incitement can the uneducated and sociopathic adherents to this Fascist drivel take?’

      very well put…I spent some time at my fathers house last summer where the radio was on in the background all day long and tuned to a right wing station where the drum beat of anti-Islamic propaganda w/r/t the ‘ground zero mosque’ was in constant supply…
      things are going to get much worse in the US before they get any better

  34. Such Violence only goes to show that someone stupid ran out of arguments. Since we don’t know more about the murderer, it is prejustice to put him in a boat with Palin. Even if we would find out that this was the case, it doesn’t show that Palin approves of his misdeeds.

    I am really glad not to live in the country where reputedly brave people need to hide behind weapons and live in fear instead of freedom.

  35. Reuters is reporting that she is still alive, and in surgery. also, 12 other injured people have been brought into hospitals as well.

  36. Speaking of poor arguments, seems like a quite stretch to blame Palin / SarahPAC. What other graphic could be used, other than a crosshair, to signify “targeting” someone?

    And don’t tell me that “targeting” and “setting your sights” on someone is “violent rhetoric.” It’s just how we talk. Maybe English is particularly violent at its core, but that’s simply how we express that political energies are to be directed at one candidate over another.

    However, unlike Palin, Sharron Angle does deserve some of the heat she’s getting with her “Second Amendment remedies” comment…

    1. Speaking of poor arguments, seems like a quite stretch to blame Palin / SarahPAC. What other graphic could be used, other than a crosshair, to signify “targeting” someone?

      * a checkbox
      * a question mark
      * a star
      * an ugly donkey
      * a triangle
      * a thumbprint
      * a frowny emoticon

      Add your own. Though if you don’t have an imagination, what else would you associate a gunsight with?

      I think the “targeting” verb only enhances the connection between this act and Sarah Palin’s rhetoric. I’m afraid the former Governor, who enjoys lifetime Secret Service protection, will now own this for the rest of human history.

      Prayers and sympathies for all the victims today.

      Justice for the United States of America.

    3. I will, in fact, tell you or anyone that using words like ‘targeting’ ‘setting sights upon’ and the like IS violent rhetoric…especially when combined with symbols such as a target commonly used in relation to weapons. Those of us who have been trained in NVC (non-violent communication) and other forms of conscious communication can assure you (or anyone) that language is not inherently violent – the only violence in language comes from a conscious or non-conscious choice on the part of the speaker/writer.

      The former is not an acceptable means of expressing political energy. It is debasing (at best) and is part of what has led to a cheapening of the entire political process. And, need I explain that people follow those who lead? If an influential “leader” such as Sarah Palin employs a language of violence & oppression as part of her platform, her fans & followers will kindle a belief-system in kind. Some of those people will, no doubt, take those beliefs to the realm of action. Such is how it’s been since time immemorial.

      Better words used against one’s political opponent are Facts & Statistics. Of course, we use emotionally persuasive words – but none of them have to incorporate the tone of violence & threat. A better symbol than a cross-hair? How about a simple dot, or an arrow, or a shaded circle, or a tree, or ANY other symbol than a cross-hair.

    4. WEll, most of us don’t “target” or use crosshairs at all.
      Circles, dot, arrows and more can be used to pinpoint the location of people on a map. Anyone in politics or marketing knows that the selection of words affects the meaning, and has its own “affective” meaning.

      Note my use of “most of us” up there. There I am splitting us into groups, basically to set you against the wall. I refrained from using “you” in another place and reconstructed the sentence so as not to need that so as not to exaggerate that alienation.
      Using the terms “target” or “set our sights on” in this context (coupled with the graphics) IS a strong message which suggests that extreme methods may be condoned. If YOU use death threat analogies or suggestions in your rhetoric then you ARE pushing for an extremely aggressive strategy and should not be surprised if your suggestions are taken literally.
      This is why most real politicians choose their words carefully.

      The words that we choose really, really matter.

    5. Speaking of poor arguments, seems like a quite stretch to blame Palin / SarahPAC. What other graphic could be used, other than a crosshair, to signify “targeting” someone?

      Question 23: A letter arrives in your mailbox at home. It contains a satellite map of your house from Google Earth, with a crosshairs resembling a gunsight centered on it. It contains the text, “I am targeting you!”

      Your reaction is:

      1. To be concerned for your safety.
      2. To think, “Wow, things are really heating up in the competition of for that shift supervisor position.”

      Please show your work.

      1. That’s quite the false analogy. The crosshair in Palin’s map wasn’t pointed at the congresspeople themselves, but at the districts that are being targeted

        We talk about targeted advertising. Is that violent? Of course not.

        And it’s obvious that Palin, et al. were targeting those congresspeople in the non-violent sense. Just look at campaign donations — the energies of conservative republicans were directed at those districts. The shorter way to say that in English is “targeted.” For fuck’s sake, y’all, is RealClearPolitics using “violent rhetoric” in this article: “an incumbent who won with 55 percent or less is likely to be targeted” and “Both suburban districts are perennial targets of the DCCC” and others.

        I won’t rule out, that, at it’s core, English uses a lot of violent metaphors and that these affect how we think. But it’s not limited to Palin; Democrats “target” Republicans too.

        1. The crosshair in Palin’s map wasn’t pointed at the congresspeople themselves, but at the districts that are being targeted

          With the names of the representatives written below.

          And it’s obvious that Palin, et al. were targeting those congresspeople in the non-violent sense.

          Obvious to who, precisely?

          1. Do you honestly mean to suggest that every time a political group talks about “targetting” a politician or district, they’re calling for that politician’s murder?

            That’s absurd. Read this article again. Was the DCCC calling for Lee Terry to be murdered? Was the NRCC calling for Alan Grayson, Zack Space and Tom Periello to be murdered? No. That’s ridiculous.

            Like it or not, “targetting” is a standard term in American political discourse. It’s not unique to Sarah Palin or Tea Party conservatives. As ChasRMartin’s Kos link points out, there are plenty of “eerie” violent words out there, on left and right.

          2. For the rest of human history.

            Odds are good that one day, one of Palin’s many descendants will understand the disgrace to the family, and apologize.

            One day.

        2. sigh.

          people who speak the English language -choose- which words to employ. The language does not choose us.

          our thinking affects the words we choose to use to construct our reality – which then tend to reinforce our thinking.

          the use of word such as ‘target’ (in politics) is deliberate and, yes, violent. It is a product of, for the uninitiated, what Robert Anton Wilson would call “Second Circuit Thinking.”

          http://ravenwoods.tripod.com/Freedom1.html

          Of course, one doesn’t have to accept that paradigm.

          2. The Anal-Emotional Territorial Circuit: This is imprinted in the ‘toddler’ stage when the infant first rises up, walks and begins to struggle for power within the family structure. This mostly mammalian circuit processes territorial rules, emotional games, or cons, pecking order and rituals of domination and submission.

    6. It is violent rhetoric. If you truly claim and belief, that this is normal conversational and political tone and all meant in jest, well, now you know why large part of the Western worlds feels kinda alienated from the US.

    7. Insert-
      Why are they targets at all? Why not flags or markers as on google maps? Why not dollar sign to show their “reckless spending” or donkeys for their political party? Why not arrows or thumbs down? A boxing glove to indicate a Republican KO?

      There are many metaphors you could use, but Palin specifically chose crosshairs (not even the more conventional bullseye, typically used to represent a target.) Violent rhetoric is one thing- you can “give someone the boot” or a pink slip, or “knock them out” of office, but rather than choosing language to represent what actually happens on election day (firing a politician you disagree with) Palin’s site chose hunting as a metaphor. Not a stretch to call it incitement.

    8. Of all the apologists here, your argument that the Palin “hit list” does not carry some blame is the weakest. I assume you identify as an American, therefore, I beg of you to have, if not a grasp of the English language, some understanding of it. Arguments based on semantic queries are best left to low income suburban high school debate teams.

      1. Does it say “hit list” anywhere? I don’t see it. (Honestly — I don’t see it. If it’s there, I’d actually reconsider my position.)

        If not, you (and everyone else calling it a “hit list”) are the one literally making things up to make Sarah Palin’s rhetoric sound more violent than it was in fact. That’s the shit that FOX does.

        I still haven’t gotten an answer to my question: Is the DCCC using violent rhetoric against Terry Lee? Was the NRCC encouraging the murder of Alan Grayson?

        Or are you all subjecting Sarah Palin to a double standard?

        1. Dude, I’m just quoting you….

          “And don’t tell me that “targeting” and “setting your sights” on someone is “violent rhetoric.” It’s just how we talk. Maybe English is particularly violent at its core, but that’s simply how we express that political energies are to be directed at one candidate over another.”

          Now back to Debate Team 101, you have just lost 2 points for arguing against logic presented earlier by your team.

          Really hope for your sake you are not planning on applying to law school. That said, I hear Sara Palin’s PR firm is looking to hire some new blood lest they lose any reality tv viewers. And, the Koch Bros. said thanks but they are not paying you by the word.

          And, unless you can ring up a few friends and get them to start commenting on your behalf, no body bothering to respond to you ihere s defending you. I suggest you maybe watch that worn out VHS of Red Dawn again….and get off the internets.

          1. little confused here.

            so far, I have read very, very little of any one saying that Sarah Palin or any other specific person (other than the shooter) is solely to blame for this attack.

            Rather, it seems to me that (generally) we have a whole lot of people here stating that Language and Word Choice is Important – especially when the Words are being used by Political Leaders. The words Leaders use have Real World Impact. Further, some have even suggested an increase of violent actions coinciding with an increase of violent rhetoric & banter on the part of politicians – esp. Right Wing politics.

            Other point, we have a couple of people responding to that and boo-hoo’ing “Quit Blaming Sarah Palin.”

            Who has directly blamed Sarah Palin (here) directly for the shooting and, more importantly, why are certain people here soap-boxing for her & her ilk? She has openly called for assassination in the past:

            http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40467957/ns/us_news-wikileaks_in_security/

            and is associated with those who use violent language to push her political party’s agenda. This is confusing? She is being defended for what reason?

            She didn’t squeeze the finger of the shooter – but she & others & their choice of words are inspiring unbalanced people..such as today’s shooter.

            How is this not clear? How does she NOT have SOME measure of responsibility? I’m baffled people wish to defend her actions.

            would the consequences of Sarah Palin’s words (and those of her kind) be more clear if they shouted “FIRE!” in a crowded movie theatre?

    9. You’re exactly correct. I bet it would have gone over well if it was Obama in the crosshairs. Am I right, or am I right?

  37. Clint McCance was an Arkansas school board member who famously said all ‘fags should commit suicide’. Knowing nothing else about the situation, can you guess what political party he belongs to?

    I’ve been worrying about this for a while now. The Republicans have so radicalized their base that yelling at politicians, comparing people to Nazis, and toting guns at rallies have become commonplace. Bricks through windows. Powders in the mail.

    An atmosphere of hate and hyperbole has made this kind of event inevitable. When Gingrich, Beck, and Limbaugh constantly standing up and yelling ‘Fire!’–that America is under the grips of ruthless dictators and that the end of days is near–eventually someone was going to take them at face value.

    When I watch Beck, it takes me five minutes for my stomach to start doing flip-flops, worrying about exactly this kind of thing happening. Honestly, what percentage of Americans just assumed that someone would attempt to assassinate Obama when he came into office?

    I only hope this was the last time, not the start of a new phase in tea bagger tactics.

  39. It’s important to remember that leaders will not make explict calls to violence, such calls will be in code that only some understand. During the Rwandan genocide, for example, the call to action was “Cut down the tall trees” – i.e. kill the (generally taller) Tutsi people.

    Maps with crosshairs and language including “setting your sights”, ads encouraging people to “remove Gabrielle Giffords from office Shoot a fully automatic M16″…

    …seriously?

  41. Sarah Palin has blood on her hands and can now include people to her trophy case of slaughtered animals. She should be held at least partially responsible for this. I hope this ruins her for good!

  42. Dear Mrs. Palin. Words DO matter! Humans don’t hunt humans like your “sights” suggested to do for Representative
    Gifford of AZ just because of a disagreement in political views. What kind of American political discourse is this? Welcome to REAL reality. Shame on you.

    1. Uh… I think some people are taking this too literally.

      Yes I think that is what people are afraid of. Some people will take it literally. And possibly already have.

  44. Yes, there’s no point speculating about what specifically broke the head of the murderer.

    As usual, the comments on the Fox News story boggle the mind. ( http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/08/arizona-congresswoman-reportedly-shot-public-event/#content << warning: may cause despair,fear, loathing or existential horror.) Disclosure – I’m not a US cit; your Constitutional protection of Free Speech covers a lot of stuff that would be criminal incitement to murder, incitement of hatred, or plain old “conduct likely to cause a breach of the peace” in the UK. If it turns out that the Beckosphere or other Tea Party type hate speech was a major influence on the murderer, would you (dear commenter) favour legal restrictions on such speech?

    1. “If it turns out that the Beckosphere or other Tea Party type hate speech was a major influence on the murderer, would you (dear commenter) favour legal restrictions on such speech?”

      NO: further restrictions on people’s rights are NOT the answer.
      Besides, no matter how strictly worded the letter of that law would be, a future (or current) dictator-ish judge or political leader could turn ANY law restricting freedom of speech into something very dangerous-think “1984,” for example.
      That’s why I’m happy to live in a country where I can strongly disagree with the words you say but I’ll always defend your right to say them!
      So, I don’t know what the answer is. But the answer is NOT to pass more laws restricting freedom of speech, or outlawing certain hateful rhetoric, or anything like that. I honestly believe that, if the security at this event had been adequately prepared for the possibility of violence, they could have stopped the shooter sooner. Perhaps if somebody on the security team had seen & interpreted Sarah Palin’s target on this congresswoman’s district as the threat it *might* be, they would have prepared better. Who knows. Forthcoming info on this tragic event will reveal more information about the shooter’s motive(s), and that’s what I’m waiting to see.

  50. snarky comment alert:

    If the (hopefully only attempted) murderous crazy turns out to be one of the Palin/Tea Party followers, will he refuse any government-paid medical care in the prison system and work to offset his taxpayer supplied food and housing?

  51. MSNBC says a federal judge may have been shot (and killed) at the event as well. They say they haven’t confirmed.

  53. I know how “forgetful” so many Americans are… so here’s a little reminder:

    The US Secret Service has already blamed Palin for endangering democrats in the past:

    Article

    via article:

    The Republican vice presidential candidate attracted criticism for accusing Mr Obama of “palling around with terrorists”, citing his association with the sixties radical William Ayers.

    The attacks provoked a near lynch mob atmosphere at her rallies, with supporters yelling “terrorist” and “kill him” until the McCain campaign ordered her to tone down the rhetoric.
    But it has now emerged that her demagogic tone may have unintentionally encouraged white supremacists to go even further.

    The Secret Service warned the Obama family in mid October that they had seen a dramatic increase in the number of threats against the Democratic candidate, coinciding with Mrs Palin’s attacks.

    Just chew on that for a while, apologists.

  55. Well, my gut tells me its just some random psycho and a wrong place, wrong time thing for the Congresswoman. A terrible coincidence for Palin’s campaign, though. Hope she’s got a super-tactful PR person on staff or can hire one.

    1. Well, my gut tells me its just some random psycho and a wrong place, wrong time thing for the Congresswoman. A terrible coincidence for Palin’s campaign, though. Hope she’s got a super-tactful PR person on staff or can hire one.

      Forget to add anything there? We know you’re concerned.

      1. Hehe. I was worried that would sound like I actually give a crap about her, but I felt like taking a “But I loathe her anyway” on to the end of the statement would be inappropriate.

        I guess the point of my statement was vague curiousity about how she and her staff were going to approach the matter. And tact is always good, right?

        1. No, sometimes being blunt is appropriate.

          This congresswoman and her family are the ones who deserve your tact, not Palin’s campaign.

        2. She tweeted she would be at a public event and the gunman shouted something to her and shot her in the head at close range. I’m pretty sure all surface instances point to an assassination attempt.

          1. Hmm. OK fair enough, I hadn’t gotten all the details.

            Well, the whole thing is horrid. I hope she makes it.

        3. I guess the point of my statement was vague curiousity about how she and her staff were going to approach the matter. And tact is always good, right?

          Palin will use up ~80 characters to say something about it on Twitter.

          Limbaugh will probably just blame Gabrielle for ratings.

          Beck will link it to Soros and Obama.

          Fox News will focus in on how this totally has nothing to do with Republicans and then find something else to distract you with very quickly.

    2. Well, my gut tells me its just some random psycho and a wrong place, wrong time thing for the Congresswoman. A terrible coincidence for Palin’s campaign, though. Hope she’s got a super-tactful PR person on staff or can hire one.

      Yeah, my heart goes out to the Palin campaign, too. I hope they can pull through this troubled time.

      Oh, yeah, kind of sucks to be the congresswoman, her husband, or her young daughter. Almost forgot about that part. Next time, she shouldn’t stand in front of crazy gunman like that.

  56. I’m significantly freaked out.

    How many clinics and federal buildings have to be bombed, how many doctors murdered, how many death and target lists have to be published, and now how many politicians will it take before good ol’ fashioned god-fearing gun-totting patriotic ‘mericans stop being willfully misinformed and crazy?

    Is this the new political reality? Disputes being settled at gun point instead of debate?

    The division in the country has been worrying for a while, but this is getting crazy.

    Welcome to the third world.

    1. Welcome to the third world.

      funny you should write that phrase. Just the other day I was talking with a retired government official (of the country I currently reside in) about U.S. politics in relation to his nation. He used the phrase “third world” several times in direct reference to the U.S. He meant it quite literally. Unless I’m mistaken, such a thing as this shooting has never occurred here…let alone a phenomenon such as Sarah Palin.

  58. imipak: Hells no. Because it would be misapplied and used to abuse and harass legitimate activists while letting plenty of nutbags continue to spew hate.

    “Conduct likely to breach the peace” What kind of crap is that? They could use that to throw anyone that speaks their mind in jail, and they would too.

  59. Assassination is awful enough, but why try and take down other innocent people in the crowd too? So horrible…

  60. OK, I could have put it better. Sorry Internets. (Incidentally I’ve said my well wishes for all the injured elsewhere). I was just meaning to express curiousity about that aspect of the story – that was the only thing that was “news” to me when i first visited this thread.

  61. Fox News is largely owned by two foreigners. Perhaps its time we start pointing out that they may be undermining American civil discourse on purpose to bring down the nation.

  63. No (sane) person believes that Palin ordered a hit.

    No one believes Henry II specifically ordered the assassination of Thomas Beckett, either.

  64. By the standards we now seem to go by, Sarah Palin has provided material support for terrorism. Can we assume an unmarked CIA transport flight is currently on its way to Wasilla? And if not, why not?

  65. Preach some more hate for your fellow citizens. It comes from both sides in some form. So we go on with our daily life ignoring the extremists among us destroying our country and liberty. Destroying our brotherhood and sanity. Still we go on and turn a blind eye to our extremists while pointing our finger at other nations, religions, and parties. Where are you my citizens? Where are the citizens to shout down hate and intolerance?
    Why have we America let our nation, country, and politic come to these ends?

    I am no one. I don’t have a degree or a 20 year education but I see the path we wonder down blindly and ignorantly. I read and know our collective history and where we wonder blindly is where we have wondered many times.
    I have a GED if I can see it why cant you?

  66. via Jesus-powered Twitter:

    On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice. – Sarah Palin

    Prayer? Thanks Sarah. Maybe prayer will remove that bullet from her head. Maybe with some prayer we can go back in time and make it so Sarah Palin never put gun targets on democrats, etc.

    If that prayer doesn’t work, then what, Sarah? Thn wht, btch?

  68. Assassination isn’t a joking matter.

    In 1170 King Henry II learned that when his complaint,”Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?” inspired his supporters to murder Archbishop of Canterbury Thomas à Becket.

    I call that “The Becket Effect” or #BecketEffect

    It doesn’t matter whether Sarah Palin pulled the trigger or pointed a finger and said “who will rid me of the turbulent 20?”.

    Either way she is responsible for the shooting of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords.

    We desperately need government accountability. No one should be above the law. Politicians need to take responsibility for their words and deeds.

    Which is exactly why the world needs WikiLeaks.

    And whistleblowers deserve medals, not incarceration.

    My heart goes out to Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and her family.

  69. And this gun range fundraiser business is ridiculous.

    If you’re in New York or Los Angeles, you have political fundraisers at art museums. But in East Podunk, North Carolina (or any of the rural towns across “flyover country”), there are no art museums. Gun ranges are just one place, a perfectly normal part of life, where politicians can have fundraisers. It raises the hackles of the liberals who fit the stereotypes (“big city librul”), but when you’re from somewhere where guns are a part of life, gun ranges are normal places. And political fundraisers at gun ranges are not uncommon either: Article on various NC candidates gun range fundraisers

    Obviously, if Democrats were used as the actual shooting targets or something, that’d be a totally different story and the reaction would be justified. But that doesn’t appear to have been the case.

    1. …gun ranges are normal places.

      Dude. So are strip clubs. Probably not the best place to hold political fundraisers.

      Rent out a firehall, a library, something where your selling point isn’t ‘fully loaded m16′.

    2. it was a concerted marketing campaign that used the love of guns and the desire to take libruls down a peg to rouse the rabble.

      It was not just ‘because theres nothing but guns in the country’

      you sell the inlands too short and the librul big cities to large.

      and youre not following occams razor

    4. “but when you’re from somewhere where guns are a part of life, gun ranges are normal places”

      May I, as an ignorant European, inquire as to why guns should be “part of life”?

      They don’t seem to be very beneficial to life, in the country or in the city.

    5. If you’re in New York or Los Angeles, you have political fundraisers at art museums. But in East Podunk, North Carolina (or any of the rural towns across “flyover country”), there are no art museums.

      Seriously?

      This was in Tucson, Arizona.

      Have you ever been to Tucson? Do you know anything at all about Tucson?

      Tucson is NOT “East Podunk, North Carolina.” It’s not a ‘rural town.’ It’s a city with a population of half a million people, in a metro area with over a million residents.

      The Wikipedia article has a list of its museums and art collections.

      I did time in Arizona politics back in the day when Barry Goldwater was Arizona’s senior senator, and some conservatives still had ethical principles.

      I don’t ever recall a fundraiser at a gun range.

      In fact, I can’t imagine any candidate back then – liberal or conservative – approving an event that invited supporters to play with “fully automatic” assault rifles in order to raise campaign funds.

      I can’t tell if you’re as ignorant as you seem to be, or if you’re just hoping that people more ignorant than you will buy into this “fundraisers are held at gun ranges because there aren’t any art museums in flyover country” horseshit.

      It’s an ignorant bit of stereotyping that insults the good people of Tucson, Arizona. And most of ‘flyover country’ to boot.

  71. If Palin weren’t so inept at using the English language, I would find it very curious that she did not say “On behalf of Todd, my family, and myself, we all pray for the victims and their families…”

  72. “And don’t tell me that “targeting” and “setting your sights” on someone is “violent rhetoric.” It’s just how we talk. Maybe English is particularly violent at its core”

    Bullsh*t. It’s dishonest to pretend that this type of shooting talk isn’t red meat thrown by Palin types not simply to gun supporters, but to the extreme (and violent) right whose votes she and her ilk necessarily count on.

    Free speech? Sure. Incendiary? Yup. Hypocritical? You betcha. *wink*

  74. Let’s not make this a 2nd Amendment topic. Not fuckin relevant. Also, body armor that’s meant to be concealed does NOTHING to stop rifle rounds, even the small caliber rifles like AK47s and .223 (M4A3/AR15). You can buy a semi-auto AK47 in all 50 states for significantly less than the cost of a good quality handgun. Remove the stock or purchase a folding stock kit and a short barrel, and you’ll be able to conceal one well enough to get close. And that’s assuming someone doesn’t pull out the hunting rifle available at any wal-mart and drop the target at several hundred yards. Rich bankers who rode in armored limos from well-guarded building to well-guarded building have been assassinated with well-timed explosives as their limos drove by. The point is that you can’t protect yourself from assassination. The only really effective means is to cultivate an environment where assassination is absolutely off the table.

    That said, I can think of a few dozen names that the world would be better off without, just off the top of my head. People who are harming America and impeding the rebirth and renewal of American values like liberty and justice for all. Would you really be upset if truly traitorous monsters like Beck or Scalia or Palin or Murdoch or Koch wound up dead? If someone bombed the board meeting of Goldman Sachs? Or would you breathe a sigh of relief that they’re no longer part of a force that’s actively destroying our nation and everything we love about it? I mean, the right wing are clearly and obviously the forces of evil. At what point does it become okay to use force against them and their lies? At some point, it seems like militant action becomes ethical, just as it was supposedly ethical to use force against the Nazis. But when does that point come? Does that day only come when they start rounding up dissidents or scapegoats and putting them in camps? What about the INS camps? What about our internment camps for Japanese-Americans in WW2? For that matter, what about the reservation system for Native Americans? Some seriously evil shit right there. At what point along the road to tyranny is force justified? If this becomes no longer a few isolated cases of lone gunmen taking the rhetoric too seriously, but a pattern of assassination against liberal figures, would that make it ethical to respond in kind for the defense of liberty? Step by step the right wing and their corrupt counterparts among the Democrats strip of our freedoms and our prosperity. When is it okay to fight back? When will enough be enough? What conditions would make guerilla war become legitimate?

    See, the right wing is constantly asking these questions about their ‘war with the forces of liberalism’. Some of them say now is the time, and they do shit like this. I don’t think it’s credible to say that these assassins are nutjobs when the popular rhetoric is as inflamed as this.

    I totally respect the belief that violence is never justified. Pacifism makes sense to me. But I tend to think that militant action is only justified when all other options for change are closed off, when the enemy is determined not just to hold power but to exterminate, destroy or cruelly and violently oppress your people. I think that we’re not there yet. I have a lot of hope that we can develop a system capable of freeing ourselves from the rule of the oligarchy, gaining the wealth and power that is our due as a people. But if that option is truly closed off, and our options for meaningful change becomes as limited as they often seem, the way things are headed, we will be there in the next 5 years or so.

    For real, civil war is not an impossibility. And shit like this proves that. And I don’t think we’ll win. This country is in a LOT of trouble.

    2. Would you really be upset if truly traitorous monsters like Beck or Scalia or Palin or Murdoch or Koch wound up dead? If someone bombed the board meeting of Goldman Sachs?

      Uh, yes. I would. It would only make martyrs of them and further entrench their evil indoctrination of the American public. But, I would be thrilled if they were removed from power by peaceful means and/or imprisonment where it applies.

  75. At this point, there is a preponderance of evidence that the respectable bigots of the official right wing are doing their level best to whip up their lunatic fringe into a frenzy of violence and hate. Remember the fellows with rifles showing up to Tea Party protests? The head-stomper? It may be prejudicial in some narrow, legalistic sense, to blame this attack on the far right, but until we see any scrap of evidence to the contrary, it is clearly the most likely solution to the mystery.

    These are the same people who call for foreign political figures to be assassinated on a regular basis, why should we suppose that they would scruple to stop at the US border?

  77. Youch, that’s gotta hurt. I can’t wait for information to come out of the triggerman. From Canada, this appears as though it may be a ‘turning’ of the American way… or nothin’. We’ll see.

  78. Other examples of Palin et al. using rhetoric in the non-violent sense:

    “RT @SarahPalinUSA: Commonsense Conservatives & lovers of America: “Don’t Retreat, Instead – RELOAD!” Pls see my Facebook page.” — Clearly, she meant “hit the reload button on the browser repeatedly so as to not miss any updates.”

    “Angle: Well it’s to defend ourselves. And you know, I’m hoping that we’re not getting to Second Amendment remedies. I hope the vote will be the cure for the Harry Reid problems.” — Clearly, she meant that, if things got bad, she would force Reid to join a well-regulated militia

    Let’s just pause for a moment. Let us assume that, instead of from Sarah Palin, that image had gone out from an Arab-American organization, with the subjects being congressional representatives who had voted in favor of some policy that they disagreed with.

    Yes, I’m sure everyone would be saying, “OF COURSE they didn’t mean it in a violent way.”

    And I am Queen of Romania.

    1. As I said above, the Angle comment is troubling violent. My point is limited to the idiotic claim that the word “target” is violent rhetoric. The facts simply don’t bear it out.

      1. My point is limited to the idiotic claim that the word “target” is violent rhetoric.

        Context, n.

        1. The circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed : the decision was taken within the context of planned cuts in spending.

      2. Innocent words like “solution” have had very violent political connotations. Obviously context is key. Placing that word next to a field of gunsights draws out such connotations both before and after events like today’s.

        But it’s not “idiotic” to notice the connections, especially as they’re happening.

        Anything else you’d care to deny?

        1. exactly.

          In the field of politics and history the phrase “final solution” just has too strong connotations. Solutions mean an “end to the problem”, and in the terms of politics… no real politician would use the word “solution” when referring to his opposition.

          I do think that Palin’s people possibly aren’t deep enough to realize any of this, but.. hey.. Is this called giving credit where credit is due, or? ;)

      3. insert, now you’re just back pedaling. No, “target” is not violent rhetoric. But “target” combined with “Help us prescribe the solution” and using cross hairs from someone who positions themselves at very pro-gun and “revolutionary” adds up to violent rhetoric. Can’t just pick and choose, the argument applies to the whole, not just the one word. Be an adult and admit you’re wrong.

    2. Let’s just pause for a moment. Let us assume that, instead of from Sarah Palin, that image had gone out from an Arab-American organization, with the subjects being congressional representatives who had voted in favor of some policy that they disagreed with.

      You NAILED IT.

  79. I think ‘ol Sarah deserves the calm-down-everybody-Assange-is-being-set-up-on-this-rape-thing treatment.

      1. Sorry. I’ve been asked by God to remind ideologues that evenhandedness is the servant of justice.

        1. Sorry. I’ve been asked by God to remind ideologues that evenhandedness is the servant of justice.

          Comparing apples to oranges isn’t even close to “evenhandedness”, son.

          Please show me where Assange has incited people to murder his political opponents? You fucking can’t. On the other hand, his political opponents HAVE incited violence AND murder against him.

          I’ve shown you where Palin HAS incited violence. It’s documented. It’s the US Secret Service. I’ll take their word over yours, m’kay sugarpie?

          Your reasoning has failed you. Your God has failed you. You have failed.

          1. Sugarpie? There’s no need for the skinny boy strut. I’m not comparing one alleged crime to another alleged crime. If you correctly took a wait-and-see position in regards to Assange, why abandon it because ‘ol Sarah gets under your skin? It may be ideologically satisfying but it’s intellectually dishonest.

          2. It’s not one bit satisfying, thanks. You’re just digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself. And, once again, you are comparing apples to oranges by comparing Palin (with a documented past) to Assange who did NOT (and yet was assumed guilty). You can choose to ignore what’s right before your eyes and live in ignorance all you want. I’ll stick around here in reality:

            Shooting Victim Gabrielle Giffords’ Prophetic Words on the Dangers of Sarah Palin’s Rhetoric

          4. You are 100% correct Cow. When the left uses violent rhetorical words like “target” it’s understood that we are merely using strong words for effect. However, when the right does it, it’s a clear call for murder (as Palin has clearly done here).

            We really need to thank Xeni for bringing this murderous plot to light. Now that this monsters plans have been made public we might be able to prevent further loss of life. How many people are we going to let Sarah Palin murder before we bring her to justice?

  80. Regardless of the outcome of this horrible event, or the motive of the assassin, NOTHING mitigates Sarah Palin’s careless and irresponsible behavior. I hope she is charged with intent to incite violence, and as an accomplice to murder.

  81. Let’s just pause for a moment. Let us assume that, instead of from Sarah Palin, that image had gone out from an Arab-American organization, with the subjects being congressional representatives who had voted in favor of some policy that they disagreed with.

    This. A thousand times this.

  83. here is the killer’s YouTube page.

    his favorite books include:
    Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.

    doesn’t sound like much of a Palin fan.

    6. Weeeeell that reading list is kinda wierd. First of all perhaps I don’t know that many in the american left wing but those I know would never list Mein Kampf as a reading favorite and many of those other books are kind of wierd. Personally I think he’s the seeker type. Reading the communist manifesto isn’t really difficult and it says very little about marxism (same as Mein Kampf and nationalsocialism I guess)

  84. The upcoming events graphics seems to be strange, why is the event circled in red at 10am, stuck between two events at 9am on the same day. Unusual maybe?

    Also for the people commenting on the use of the word ‘targeting’ there is the less aggressive, ‘focus’, as in we are focusing on these areas.

    1. exactly.

      Republicans were known for their clever use of wordsmith specialists only a few years ago. They had specialists training them as well as reviewing speeches, designing phrases for maximum impact and other such items.
      I find it highly unlikely that this understanding of the importance of word selection has been lost.

  85. CNN is carrying a live conference at the hospital (2pm MST). The doctor at the podium has stated that the congresswoman is *NOT* dead. She was shot once, a through-and-through. That was the extent of the information he offered regarding the congresswoman.

    He said that 10 patients were transported to the hospital, 5 were in surgery 4 others were critital and one had died.

    (KGUN, Tucson, via CNN)

  86. So how far back does the right’s assassinations of this country’s leaders (political and civic) go, now? 48 years to Kennedy? A half century of right-wing domestic terrorism, and yet pop stars like Sarah Palin still don’t speak and act responsibly, despite the historical knowledge that their fanbase is unstable and prone to acts of violence.

  87. The Congresswoman lived through surgery. Although a head shot, who knows.

    The nine year old child is dead.

  88. What does shooting a Congresswoman in the head in front of Safeway do for America? Nothing good… for either side, Bloods or Crips.

  89. You mention Target the retail store — what’s their logo? Yeah, a bullseye — used for shooting. Is it a violent store? Of course not, that’d be silly.

    You may be right (as I acknowledged above) that the metaphors people use do affect the way that people see an issue. (“Framing”, Lakoff, and all that.)

    However, if that’s the case, then Sarah Palin is not uniquely culpable. Everybody in politics (and I realize I sound like a broken record) uses that kind of rhetoric. And as the Target (the store) example demonstrates, violent imagery, metaphors and language may pervade our culture. If we want to start “focusing” our campaigns instead of “targeting” them, that’s fine, but it’s simply not fair to blame the effects on Sarah Palin.

  90. Could we please quit blaming Sarah Palin for everything? Palin is an idiot. And when she isn’t being an idiot she’s often being evil. She’s a disgusting excuse for a human being. But, that doesn’t make her responsible for every act of right-wing violence (although her general rhetoric has certainly been a problem). But pointing to the use of the verb “target” and the use of a standard symbol over a location is pretty weak evidence. Since the shooter is alive and in custody let’s wait a few days and gather a bit more evidence before deciding what prompted this. Mmmkay?

      1. Yep, sounds mentally disturbed to me.

        Well, the “blazing away with a gun in a Safeway parking lot” thing was a pretty strong indication right there.

  92. I find it repulsive that a conservative Democrat has been gunned down by a left wing extremist. A sad day indeed.

    2. Nice try, troll. If you read even the rudimentary reports on this event, you’d see that the Congresswoman self-identified as a “Blue Dog Democrat”, which is decidedly *not* a “conservative Democrat”.

      Might want to brush up on your forum trolling skills and try again.

  93. Just listened to the press conference from the University of Arizona Medical Center as carried by KUAZ radio. One death a child of 10 years. It’s always the weakest amongst us who pay the price for the actions of brutes. One interesting subject is that the Pima County Sheriff office is conducing the investigation. I think the shooting happened outside Tucson proper in a town called Oro Valley, but they do have their own PD. One reporter was heard to ask from the back, was the shooter in the Tucson Police Dept? The question was voided. What a horrible event on what is a beautiful clear warm Jan day here in The Old Pueblo.

    KUAZ can be heard on

    http://www.kuaz.org

  95. Couple of related thoughts:

    (1) under what circumstances would this attack have been quickly talked about as a “terrorist attack” by the MSM? (I mean, a violent assault on a member of Congress?) So far I haven’t seen anyone used that word, apart from commentards on various places bringing a little hyperbole and metaphor. (Perhaps if it had been a car-bomb or an RPG… ha)

    (2) It’s entirely uninformed speculation at this stage, of course, but I wonder whether this guy will turn out to have been on the radar of any of the ever-multiplying “anti-terror” and “homeland security” para-LEAs? I’m sure some of them DO track right-wing domestic nutters, but I also won’t be at all surprised if it turns out that the murderer was completely invisible to the whole apparatus of the supposedly war-posture security state.

  96. Yeah this dude appears to be crazy. His videos talk about creating currencies and languages. He seems desperately in need of sleep. In fact, he brings it up over and over including as his MySpace handle.

    He mentions things like not supporting gold-backed currencies and how paying for community college is unconstitutional and how people haven’t read the constitution, but that’s the extent of his right winged craziness.

  97. Something about this story reminded me of an article I’d seen as a kid, and after a few google searches I think the best thing I found to describe it is here:
    http://www.67notout.com/2010/10/pearl-harbour-attack-shown-in-advance.html
    If you don’t want to click on the link, just try googling the words
    “Achtung, Warning, Alerte!”
    In summary, there was an ad for a dice game in the New Yorker that supposedly has many elements that coincide with the attack on Pearl Harbor, published BEFORE the attack occurred. Some thought it was a coded message. The people who posted the ad were investigated by the FBI and it turned out to be, “officially,” a coincidence.
    Sometimes a coincidence is just a coincidence. I dunno for sure, but I think Sarah Palin is too effing stupid to do this on purpose.

    1. Agreed, she is too stupid, and I believe in no way cognizant of how much weight her words and actions carry with her viewers/followers. That is precisely the problem…..AND, that is why it is illegal to yell, “FIRE!” in a movie theater.

      1. She may not have book smarts, but don’t underestimate her intelligence overall; she definitely is sly, and clever like a fox. Anyone who is able to read people can plainly see that her wide-eyed, “aw shucks” attitude and responses are carefully planned and crafted. And you know why?

        So people will think she’s “too stupid”.

  98. If US District Court Judge John Roll was really there and really shot, as appears to be the case, I would not assume the Congresswoman was the target. Judge Roll had hundreds of death threats a couple of years ago based on his ruling in a civil rights case, and as with every US District Judge, Roll would have made life-altering rulings against hundreds of people in social security and criminal cases over the course of his tenure.

  99. For those defending targeting as a normal term (which is currently true), you should separate the ideas of normal choice of words and correct choice of words.

    It’s now an offensive way to use the term, we are all partially responsible. Stop defending and start changing.

  101. John McCain issued a statement (via HufPo) saying “Whoever did this; whatever their reason, they are a disgrace to Arizona, this country and the human race,”

    am I too German in thinking that this “disgrace to the human race” is another way of differentiating between good humans and unworthy humans and smacks of Nazi rhetoric, thinly disguised as consolation?

    1. am I too German in thinking that this “disgrace to the human race” is another way of differentiating between good humans and unworthy humans and smacks of Nazi rhetoric, thinly disguised as consolation?

      Well, I have to say that if you are going to demonize anyone, crazy gunmen who open fire in a grocery store parking lot killing children is not particularly controversial.

  102. @insert, FWIW, I’m with you on this. I don’t see how Palin (as big of an idiot as she is) bears any responsibility for this. People use violent imagery all the time to describe more minor conflicts — like say a sporting event, “The Patriots are going to kill the Steelers!” It’s normal language for many competitions, and I bet it wouldn’t be hard to find language of this sort for both sides. “Kerry targets swing states”, “Pennsylvania is a key battleground for the left.”, etc…

    Almost all people are sane enough to realize that it’s just rhetoric and that actually murdering people is bad. I’m not sure what critics would suggest. Restricting free speech? Censoring the word “target”? Should we get rid of all violent movies, books, and videogames as well?

    Seems like a better solution is to raise awareness for mental health issues so that crazily violent people can be identified and treated before they fall off the deep end.

  103. Moderator Note: Does anyone have anything new to say? If you’ve already made ten comments in this thread, this might be a good time to take a break.

  104. There is no need to rush to blame Ms. Palin here. She believes in personal responsibility, it’s the hallmark of the Republican party; and I am certain she will own up to and stand behind all of her rhetoric. (Even though she has already begun to remove traces like the target map and her twitters.)

    /snark

    ===========

    Some posters need to understand that this is NOT a rush to blame Ms. Palin. Rather, it is a rush to say “I told you so.” Violent consequences were predicted in advance by most reasonable persons. Acting like WE are spinning the event post facto is just part of YOUR spin.

  105. If this Loughner dude is really the shooter, then for once we have an assassination by a genuine “lone nut.” What does it say about 21st century America that this could be considered a relief?

    1. This incident is a horrible tragedy, I pray for the families of those who died and were injured.

      As I am from Sweden I have a really hard time understanding why its necessary to have all those guns around. When the first nuclear-tipped ICBM was put into service I really think that your second amendment was made redundant. Theres no reason to own a gun for “defense” when youre a citizen of a nuclear power, is there ?

      1. As I am from Sweden I have a really hard time understanding why its necessary to have all those guns around. When the first nuclear-tipped ICBM was put into service I really think that your second amendment was made redundant. Theres no reason to own a gun for “defense” when youre a citizen of a nuclear power, is there ?

        Well, several million people in the US hunt for food and sport and nuclear weapons don’t exactly protect against home invasions or the occasional riot.

  106. NYT report as of ~1:30 Pacific time is 6 dead, including the child but not the Congresswoman, and 12 wounded.

    1. Federal District Court judge John Roll also pronounced dead. Not sure if he was specifically targeted as well or just one of the bystanders caught in the shooting.

      The doctor stated in a press conference a few minutes ago that the bullet was a “through and through”, I guess meaning that the bullet passed through the body cleanly. She is still under amnesia at present time.

      Listening to news coverage out of Tuscon — apparently the shooter was using a pistol with an extended clip, hence the 20 to 30 rounds. I’m still curious about Jared Loughner’s video claim that he was a recruit with the US military. Had he already gone through basic? Seems that a psych test might have revealed early on that he’s a nutjob.

  107. The shooter should be charged as a terrorist, and if he was at all motivated by the rhetoric of Sarah Palin (which is likely), then she should be charged for the crime of aiding and abetting terrorism as well!

  108. Let me start by saying that I think Palin is a frickin nutjob.

    Cowicide needs to chill out and stop swearing. I don’t think i’ve ever seen one poster with as much profanity on boing boing comments.

    Also, all the people complaining about the use of the term “target” and such should check out chasrmartin’s link to the Daily KOS.

    You can’t, positively can not suggest that when one person says “target this district” that this is worse than another person saying “puts a bulls eye on this district”.

    Further, the author of that thread doesn’t sound in any way more stable than the right winger who apparently shot at Gifford, especially since he claims he shot himself (what? liberal using a gun?)

    Anyway, the point here is that people should chill out.

  109. Rachel Maddow: May I ask you a personal question?
    Palin: Sure.
    Rachel: Have you ever retired a Republican by mistake?
    Palin: No.
    Rachel: But in your position that is a risk…
    Reagan: [Offscreen] Is this to be an empathy test?

  110. krake wrote in comment #162:
    “am I too German in thinking that this “disgrace to the human race” is another way of differentiating between good humans and unworthy humans and smacks of Nazi rhetoric, thinly disguised as consolation?”

    Would ‘humanity’ have been a better choice? But, no, as a native English speaker, nothing in McCain’s soundbite sounds like anything other than typical politician speak. Yeah, it may be a German thing to see that, I cannot say.

  112. I think that it should be pointed out that in the context of american history at large, the current levels of violence, including terrorism and political violence are lower than they’ve ever been. consider for example that in the 1970’s, there was a politically motivated bombing almost every week, and murder rates were much higher. While I find neoconservative rhetoric alarming, I think spinning this situation as an act that could only be perpetrated by a right wing extremist is really dishonest and just as bad as the sorts of tactics all partisan politicians employ, especially considering radical left wing movements like the black bloc etc.

  113. I think it’s very clear that Sarah Palin deserves all the blame for basically inciting this terrorist act. It seems her evil deeds and over the top hate speech are finally starting to catch up to her.

    What we need to do now, with the help of Boing Boing, is try to determine who her next target is. She has unleashed her terrorist army and we need to be prepared.

    Some here are saying Glen Beck is involved too? Does anyone have more information on this connection? I’m assuming this implicated FOX news as well?

  114. Palin and Sharon Angle and other right-wing noisemakers aren’t going to be in any real legal trouble for this. However, it’s likely to be a political shitstorm for them.

    When calling for “Second Amendment solutions,” or using cutesy casually violent catchphrases like “Don’t retreat, RELOAD!”, literally placing crosshairs over your opponents, or describing yourself as a wild animal who will attack anything that threatens you, you can’t be upset or surprised when people draw connections between your statements and the actions of a lone crazed gunman.

    If in your mind’s eye you didn’t see these particular chickens coming home to roost one day, then your mind is faulty.

    NOT saying that anyone but the gunman himself is responsible for these actions. Just saying that when you spend years broadcasting thinly veiled calls for violent action, people are naturally going to look pretty hard at you when violent action actually occurs. The human mind is so good at making connections, it makes them when there is no actual connection in reality. All the rhetoric of the last couple years has given peoples’ minds a slam-dunk target for connection-making.

  115. His best video is the How To Mind Control, bwahahahahahahaha!
    Non Compos Mentis, I’ll wager.

  116. Yeah… his videos indicate that all of this occurred in a reality his mind created. So none of us are going to be able to experience the stimuli which catalyzed the gun fire. D’Cuckoo, hyuk.

  117. the dailywh.at have posted that the shooter was 22 year old Jared Lee Loughner of Tuscon. They also include a youtube video Loughner posted before the attack. It’s entitled ‘final thoughts’ and seems too show he isn’t mentally stable. However unstable Loughner was Sarah Palins’ website seems too incite violence and may have directly or indirectly contributed in the death of nine year old girl and possibly the death of a U.S. congresswoman. This ‘presidential hopeful’ needs too explain herself and her actions.

  118. Sarah Palin and her crew are busily trying to re-write recent history as they take down their web sites and images as fast as they can.

    Looks like they are trying to distance Sarah as far as possible from any thought she may have incited even an unbalanced shooter into taking action against a politician Sarah targeted.

    Heck, Sarah has even erased at least one of her tweets…

    Guess what tweet @SarahPalinUSA just deleted? Here’s your answer: http://bit.ly/hPV95O

    BUT, we remember. The internet will remember. The collective consciousness will remember.

  119. I like the way everyone is blaming the “right wing” for this violence….hmmmm….if it was a follower of Islam who committed an act these same folks would be screaming not to judge all Muslims. How much violence do many Islamic leaders directly call for against the US and the west?? I am not saying two wrongs make a right. I am saying keep it in perspective. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. This is certainly going to be a lone nutjob. None of us want to live in a war torn country!!! We all need to remember that with our words and actions…still, I fear that this country has two ideologies that will eventually lead us to Civil War once again. And there will be nothing “civil” about it. I hope it’s all worth it in the end.

    1. Islam doesn’t demand violence, unless you have some absurd warhawk translations in front of you.

      Many, if not most, right-wing ideologies are steeped in violence.

  120. My apologies if these were already posted, I have not read through all the comments. I thought you might find what folks on CNN’s ireport page are digging up. They’ve found his youtube challenge – watched a rant about new currency and english grammar – and his facebook page as well as a picture of the guy – all unverified. Facebook has the page down, but there’s a screenshot here: http://ireport.cnn.com/ir-topic-stories.jspa?topicId=293965

    I hope she recovers quickly and fully. Very tragic and not a way to initiate any sort of dialogue. :(

  121. Of course Criminal, for the perp(s)

    CIVIL, as in Giffords v. Palin, for damages resulting from incitement to violence

  122. Antinous has the right idea; so I’m off for a cooldown and a reread of the Articles of Confederation. But let me leave everyone with this from Atrios:

    Saturday, January 08, 2011

    Which Team Does This Nut Play For

    There isn’t a contradiction between thinking that rhetoric suggesting the desirability of political violence may play a role in this kind of thing and the likely truth that someone who does this kind of thing is nuts, and that can be true regardless of whatever political beliefs one can attempt to infer from the ramblings of a lunatic.

    -Atrios 16:46

  124. Declassified CIA Assassination Manual: In lost assassination, the assassin must be a fanatic of some sort. Politics, religion, and revenge are about the only feasible motives. Since a fanatic is unstable psychologically, he must be handled with extreme care. He must not know the identities of the other members of the organization, for although it is intended that he die in the act, something may go wrong.

  127. or that BlueBoy blogged yesterday that Giffords was now “Dead to him” — of course Kos airbrushed that out to.

    Go to Instapundit for the link there since it seems only party line links make it through.

  128. A sad day for America and the State of Arizona.

    Even if Palin was responsible for the hit, all Americans, Democrats and Republicans, liberals and conservatives, should come together, condemn this barbarous act, and mourn those who have fallen.

    Even if Palin, the gunman, and the Tea Party activists were acting in the ‘best interests’ of the Republican Party, they – by this fiendish deed – are now no longer Republicans, and should be expelled from the party.

  130. And this may be the first case of a lone nut obsessed by not only currency, but GRAMMAR.

    ‘If you’re literate in English grammar then you know English grammar. You don’t know English grammar. Thus, you’re not literate in English grammar. Most of the teachers and students at Pima Community College are illiterate.’

    Here’s links to all the videos:

    Hello

    This Student At Pima Community College: An Unconstitutional Crime!

    How To: Your New Currency!

    How To: Mind Controller

    Introduction: Jared Loughner

    And from the Youtube Profile:

    Profile
    Name:Jared Lee Loughner
    Channel Views:271
    Joined:October 25, 2010
    Website:http://Myspace.com/fallenasleep
    About Me:

    My name is Jared Lee Loughner!
    Hometown:Tucson
    Country:United States
    Schools:I attended school: Thornydale elementary,Tortolita Middle School, Mountain View Highschool, Northwest Aztec Middle College, and Pima Community College.
    Interests:My favorite interest was reading, and I studied grammar. Conscience dreams were a great study in college!
    Movies:(*My idiom: I could coin the moment!*)
    Music:Pass me the strings!
    Books:I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.

  133. Text of Loughlin’s youtube videos: Sounds like he’s been watching a little too much Fox News.

    The majority of citizens in the United States of America have never read the United States of America’s Constitution.

    You don’t have to accept the federalist laws.

    Nonetheless, read the United States of America’s Constitution to apprehend all of the current treasonous laws.

    You are literate, listener?

    In conclusion, reading the second United States Constitution, I can’t trust the current government because of the ratifications: The government is implying mind control and brainwashing on the people by controlling grammar.

    No! I won’t pay debt with a currency that’s not backed by gold and silver!

    No! I won’t trust in God

  134. The PalinPac shows what it is all about. A bigoted pack, led by an idiot who don’t know jack shit.

  135. Sorry folks, it turns out that the shooter was not a Palin fan by any stretch of the imagination. He was a left-winger.

    Let’s hope for the best for Congresswoman Giffords and her family.

        1. That data is four years old. His Youtube-videos are more than a little bit strange. His reading list is wideranging. How can you be so sure of his political views today, especially as he also includes typical far-right ideas about “constitution above all” and “gold standard to the rescue”?

    2. LINK??? FOX NEWS????

      Controversial Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) said this weekend that she wants residents of her state “armed and dangerous” over President Barack Obama’s plan to reduce global warming “because we need to fight back.”

  136. What this really makes me want to do, is pick up a candle and go hold it up in the air with anyone else who feels the same way. That’s apparently going to happen at 6:00 at the AZ state capitol, but I wonder where else this could be going on?

    Most everyone I know or want to know, would rather settle our differences politically than with bullets. A wounded democracy needs to be noticed.

  137. The right uses violence because they are unable to participate in the normal debate in politics, which requires you to be at least open to the possibility that your opponent may be correct on a particular issue. The right-wing media (and to a lesser extent, the left as well in their own way) has poisoned the debate by making obama, democrats to be “traitors”, “terrorist sympathizers”, “socialists”, people who should be forcibly removed from power rather than negotiated with. The extreme right is a dangerous mix of dogmatic religiosity, hardcore nationalism (what do you think all the american flag attire is about) and fascist leanings. These people do not care about freedom except the freedom to be dangerous kooks.

    Sarah palin didn’t say “i respectfully disagree with these politicians”, she said “load yer pistols and take the bastards out!” but i guess i’m just a liberal pussy for thinking bulls-eye targets on people isn’t funny.

  138. This is a pretty angry thread. Some particularly inflammatory posts could almost pass for hyperbolic parodies of the extreme Left-wing.

    Yes, Sarah Palin is a terrible person. Even my conservative friends agree with that.

    Yes, this is a shocking and tragic incident.

    Yes, the assassination of a political figure immediately raises questions as to the agenda of the assassin.

    However, it’s counter-productive to focus on condemning those posters who happen to disagree with you, especially when the disagreements are grammatical rather than ideological.

    Let’s take it down a notch and focus on the incident and not each other.

  139. Now perhaps Sara Palin does know that what you put out there does come back. Please Media…drop her…don’t follow her…..Fox News…..I’m so tired of all of your negative reporting.

    Sara Palin go home and stay home so no one else dies.

  141. I’m glad that sites are removing content that would imply that they supported violence against Rep. Giffords.

    They should however issue extremely public apologies for their inappropriate words, pages, graphics, etc.

    Those who should issue apologies include: Palin, the opponent with his M16 reference, DailyKaos.

    Scrub it yes but apologize as well, perhaps with a promise to not use such wording in the future.

  142. 18 shot. 6 killed so far, including the deaths of a federal judge and a 9 year old child. The families of each of the victims need to be offered legal support to literally sue the living shit out of Sarah Palin and her sick cronies for breeding this outrageous hate mongering.

  143. Wow. Lots of political rantings by people who don’t have any idea of the motivation of the shooter. Why am I not surprised?

    Watching the YouTube videos by this guy, I surmise that he’s a bit unhinged in the manner of General Jack D. Ripper in Dr. Strangelove. Philosophy 101 logic liberally applied to insanity is just confusing.

    Whatever. I live in Tucson and many of my friends know Gabby, so it’s going to be an interesting week.

  144. At least five people are dead including a child, a judge and others we do not yet know who all have a family. Mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters and children have lost someone. There has been an attack on a representative of the people of America who has been shot at point blank range in the head. Could we all take a step back from throwing words so very angrily at each other. This is not that website. Unless you really, really want it to be just like every other website right now?

    A long time back a moderater wrote, if you had posted ten times maybe it was time to take a break. Please follow along but we dont need to be this ugly. Particularly with this much…

  145. Salon put it best: “There could be no connection between the Palin target ad & this. But tragedies like this reminds us of why such ads are a bad idea.”

    Palin’s reckless manner of rallying supporters has consequences. It is too early to tell motive, but I do hope that it serves as a wake-up call for Palin and everyone, regardless of which side, who opts to use such irresponsible and reckless approaches.

    via Iskra at dangerous minds

  146. Don’t be surprised if you request to shoot someone, that one idiot will actually perform the act. Yes, this person might be called instable, violent, criminal – but hey, who killed Kennedy ? A request for a hit, is still that. With or without payment.

  148. Jesus – H – Christ

    WTF is going on, Boing Boing? For a site that seems to pride itself on rationality and thinking, it seems to throw that out of the window in the name of punditry.

    WHY is Sarah Palin mentioned? WHY? There is NO REASON to drag her into this tragic situation. SHE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Love her or hate her, there is no reason to even mention her. Hell, mention Bush while your at it. Good gawd.

    So she endorsed a project that used cross hairs in their graphic.

    SO WHAT?

    Are you suggesting that someone killed someone else because of a graphic of a cross hair? Or because they had an event that featured shooting a gun? Really??? That is like suggesting touching a vibrator or reading Playboy can turn you into a rapist or nympho.

    Furthermore, we have no idea why this guy did this. Maybe he is part of the ‘tea party’. That doesn’t matter at all. One lone nut doesn’t speak for a whole group. He could be an ex-lover, have Satan in the form of a dog talking to him, or just want to impress Jodi Foster.

    1. Sarah Palin just took down her USA Map with targets drawn over democratic leaders, one of them was for Gabrielle Giffords.

  149. You don’t shoot at children!
    And you don’t shoot a woman in the face!

    Following me so far? Good.

    For those taking the advanced course, you don’t shoot at anybody. Left-right, conservative-liberal, left-right. No shooting!!

    That is all.

    1. Mira, good points. I’d like to toss in No Stabbing. Rather, no killing other members of the species.

      1. Was going to say no kicking, stomping, punching, harassing, mutilating as well.
        But then what will folks do for the after-party during PNAC & Tea Party conventions…

        Just didn’t seem fair..

        1. You know what the States seems to be missing these days? Jazz. It needs more jazz. Montreal Jazz Fest is the monster of jazz. I’m a Canuck, but I think hey, you guys invented jazz, you should have more monster jazz gigs. Cat’s would come together, angry paranoids would get confused.

      2. Was going to say no kicking, stomping, punching, harassing, mutilating as well.
        But then what will folks do for the after-party during PNAC & Tea Party conventions…

        Just didn’t seem fair..

  150. What you want to bet the gunmen are labeled “D” on the TV screen when Fox News covers the story?

  151. Also – this has nothing to do with guns or gun control.

    You can not stop the crazies all the time. Just like it is ridiculous to ban cars because a handful of people purposefully crash head on to others, it is ridiculous to punish the MILLIONS of legal, law abiding gun owners because of one nut.

    If you want to find a cause to rally behind, it should be how we treat the mentally ill in this country.

  152. About three hours ago:

    The suspect was named on yahoo as Jared Loughner, 22. Within five minutes I found two facebook accounts with such names both in Tucson,AZ. Sort of strange. Within 10 minutes they were both gone. The information I obtained on facebook make me wonder if there is a cover up and conspiracy in the works.

  153. Mister44 asks…

    Are you suggesting that someone killed someone else because of a graphic of a cross hair?

    Pretty much, yea. At least that it could have had an influence.

    1. Violent video games and movies make people flip out all the time and go on shooting sprees, so it’s no stretch of the imagination to see how Sarah Palin has cleverly taken advantage of this phenomena and used the graphic depiction of gun crosshairs in order to rub out some one of her most hated and despised enemies.

      This woman must be stopped.

  155. Removal of myspace too. Guy looks stupid/batty. He could have been a ‘useful idiot’. It could be a set-up. Lots of possibilities. Enough to get this post over 300 comments, I’d say.

  156. During the 2008 election, someone in my town put up a picture of Obama with crosshairs on his forehead. I’m sure the person meant no harm (<–sarcasm, that way), but the picture was taken down before I could call the Secret Service. I hope someone else called them. Honestly, I could see how Palin using the crosshairs on her map was just part of her branding. That doesn’t make it OK, obviously. My point is that incitement to violence became such a normal part of the right’s m.o. that the crosshairs just made sense as part of the package.

    1. Sorry, mistaken coding. Meant to say that “I’m sure the person meant no harm” was sarcasm, and that the picture was taken down before I could call the Secret Service. I hope someone else called them.

  157. Watching the heat spray between political positions in this stream is getting me hot. This’ll do the trick

  158. Sadly, a young paranoid schizophenic for whom gov’t was a prominent part of delusional system. Sounds like he’d been self medicating w/the wrong drugs. But irresponsible camdidates feed the psychosis–gun sites in candidates indeed! Remove frim office paired w/M16 Target practice. These politicoans are culpable! Didn’t Palin’s dancing single mom daughter just buy an Az house? I bet like Hinkley–J Foster, he was trying to act out a fantasized hoped for relationship with daughter by pleasing Mom (and her gun sites).

  159. This guy looks to be a paranoid schizophrenic. Palin’s rhetoric is distasteful regardless of the shooting, but trying to lump all the blame onto her for what happened today is pretty distasteful as well.

  160. And the amount of Boing Boing commentators who could not wait to slut shame Assange’s accusers was distasteful as well, regardless of his innocence. And that they still defend their rabid slut shaming in this thread is even more distasteful.

  161. Calm down. I’m not defending Palin. I think she’s an idiot, would be terrible as President, etc. I’m pretty fucking left-wing, in fact.

    But I also am pretty skilled with Google searches, and the *facts* (the same things that Sarah Palin isn’t very good with) show that politicians “target” one another all the time. Sarah Palin is many things, but she does not deserve blame for this attack on Rep. Giffords.

  162. You’ve brought nothing new to the table and my comment still stands and you still very much disgust me.

    Just stop talking. Read what others are saying here in response to you and fucking apologize. You fucked up. Have some self-respect and admit it.

  163. let’s see:

    1) uses word target (fine, fairly innocuous in today’s political realm) – check

    2) places cross-hairs over districts of political foes along with their names – check

    3) Sarah Palin allied political opponent calls for rally at a shooting range to shoot a fully automatic M16 – check

    any one of those points on their own is relatively benign (although 3 is a little questionable) – but taken together?

    this is acceptable political maneuvering to you?
    You don’t think 1+2+3 were coordinated? Do you believe this current campaign against the 20 is arbitrary?

    Insert, my friend, please..go back to the world of drudgereport.com..you have many allies there who will embrace you with open arms.

  164. You don’t get it, do you?

    Putting together violent imagery with violent “call to arms” language IS violent. Crosshairs suggest mostly one thing, and are used that way to suggest targeting. Coupled with violent words, from a person who uses killing and disappearing analogies as par for the course IS a call to violence.

    She probably (or rather, hopefully) just means it to show how tough and cool she is, but that is not what she is getting across.
    The cries at her rallies about killing Obama show that she knows the sentiment of her crowd, and she persists in using communication which suggests that she endorses murder.
    She has also publicly supported torture, illegal murder of foreign nationals (Assange), and the use of violent methods.

    THIS is what happens when violent methods are suggested as a solution. Possibly one lone nutter who takes it literally. That’s what happens when you preach violence to violent nutters!

    But, of course, we don’t know if the two are related. Causation, correlation, and all that. In any case, Politicians should remember that words have meaning.

  165. Yes, “target” can mean “target advertising.” And it’s the name of one of my favorite retail stores.

    But when you combine it with a gun-sight icon… well, that’s pretty specific. You don’t use a gun-sight to “target” an ad, an argument, a proposal or a campaign. You use it to aim a gun.

    And, yes… of course that usage was still metaphorical. But metaphors are language, too, that has meaning and consequences. If you use violent words, images and rhetoric to make your point, you run the risk of people taking those things too literally.

    I don’t think Sara is in any danger of being arrested for inciting this murder. I don’t think she wanted anyone to be killed. I think she’s honestly sorry about it (regardless of political fall out) and, as a person, would wish the best for the victims.

    All that being said… if you sow the wind, you reap the whirlwind. Using up-jacked, violent language has consequences. Even if you don’t believe they will be carried out literally, it’s unwise to be a person in power and not understand how much influence what you say might have on your followers.

  166. Cowicide, I thought you were reasonable, because I tend to agree with you on the Wikileaks issues. But apparently not. (And why do you feel compelled to call people names when they disagree with you?)

    Teller’s precisely right. Simply because we all (including me!) find Sarah Palin distasteful doesn’t mean that she bears responsibility for this obviously terrible event. Let facts bear themselves out and don’t work yourself into so much of a froth that you end up saying stupid things: like that the word “target” constitutes violent rhetoric.

  167. Have you ever looked up the word ‘target’ in a dictionary before?

    I have.

    target |ˈtärgit|

    noun
    1 a person, object, or place selected as the aim of an attack.
    • a mark or point at which someone fires or aims, esp. a round or rectangular board marked with concentric circles used in archery or shooting.

  168. Have you ever googled “target” in a political context? I put a link up earlier: the NRCC and DCCC were “targetting” Alan Grayson and Terry Lee respectively. Was that violent? No! Palin uses “target” in the same context — politics.

    For fuck’s sake, lay off Palin for using the word “target” and off of Kelly for the gun range fundraiser. There are plenty of other examples of violent Tea Partiers (Sharron Angle) to blame.

    And as Cleek just pointed out (assuming it’s accurate), the shooter “doesn’t look like a Palin fan.”

  169. I like to introduce you to a word: Negligence. This is when someone does something, or fails to do something, that has negative consequences, even when they did not specifically intend those negative consequences.

    In a neutral political context, “target” does not have a violent connotation. It requires a Tommy-the-Rock-Opera level of deaf/dumb/blindness to pretend that the political context for the last three years has been neutral.

    In a political context where a side is consistently using violent language, introducing words like “target’ with gun-sight icons cannot be considered just another routine political use of the word, especially when individuals are being “targeted.”

    I really don’t see what is so hard to understand about that.

  170. insert, on a final note… I’ll just quote from the alleged murderer’s YouTube video at the very end where he says:

    What’s government if words don’t have meaning?

    insert. You’re embarrassing yourself. Apologize or simply quit while you’re behind.

  171. May I introduce you to a concept? Confirmation bias.

    Y’all already want to blame Sarah Palin for this (because, as we agree, she’s dumb, a bad candidate, has evil political views on torture, Wikileaks, etc.). So, y’all take things which seem to provide evidence for that view even though they really don’t indicate anything at all.

    Let’s wait and see how this story develops. It’s starting to look like the gunman is either left-wing (Communist Manifesto) or a Nazi (Mein Kampf). Or maybe he’s just nuts (his video is totally non-sensical). And Sarah Palin definitely is not left-wing or a Nazi.

  172. What’s your point?

    What’s government if words don’t have meaning? sounds more like Derrida than Tea Party…

  173. Y’all already want to blame Sarah Palin for this (because, as we agree, she’s dumb, a bad candidate, has evil political views on torture, Wikileaks, etc.). So, y’all take things which seem to provide evidence for that view even though they really don’t indicate anything at all.

    You seem to be operating in a world in which the only thing Sarah Palin and those allied with her have ever said over the last few years has been those two graphics on the SarahPAC site. I respectfully suggest that the context is otherwise.

  174. You know what, dude? You’re just hopeless. Keep ignoring what everyone is saying here to you. Keep ignoring the CONTEXT of rhetoric and past history of Palin.

    Kp lkng lk stpd sshl.

  175. Seriously? You are going to invoke Derrida… what’d you do wiki “semantics”? See, if we were all sitting in a bar together, this is the point where the secret text would go out that everybody gets except you telling everyone to meet up at another bar and when we leave we stand up, stretch our arms out, yawn and otherwise indicate that we gotta go.

    So, without further ado…

    I think I left the iron on, which is just my way of saying Foucault off!

  176. my friend, I think we should all just stop feeding the obvious trolls – or at least those with whom we hopelessly disagree.

  177. Well good Dr. Pasolini, how about the New Black Panthers showing up at polling centers during the 2008 presidential elections?

    The single incident at the single polling station that resulted in the charges being dropped because the Commission on Civil Rights concluded that there was no intimidation? Yeah, about that. What else have you got?

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