The YouTube videos of Arizona shooting suspect Jared Lee Loughner, with full text transcripts

[Video Link]


Today, Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) and 19 others were shot in Tucson, Arizona. Six of the shooting victims were killed. Police say Giffords was the target of the attack. Local law enforcement have identified the shooting suspect as Jared Lee Loughner, 22 (photo, at left). A police manhunt is under way for a second "person of interest."

As blogged here earlier, Loughner posted material to a number of social media sites— he also had an active YouTube channel under the user name "Classitup10." The bio for that channel is written in the past tense. It appears he maintained a previous channel under the user name "Starhitshnaz." The sole video in that channel is embedded above, and shows a burning flag in front of a desert scene, with Drowning Pool's song "Bodies" ("Let the bodies hit the floor") as soundtrack.

In this post, we archive all of the currently known YouTube videos believed to have been created and published by Jared Lee Loughner, with text transcripts and screengrabs.

Themes and terms present throughout include: terrorism and a fixation on Loughner himself being characterized as a terrorist; creating "a new currency" to be introduced by "lethal or non-lethal means"; English literacy, "mind control and brainwash," "political weapons," "conscience dreaming," and scattered references to the Constitution and the American government controlling people through brainwashing and mind control.

Videos and transcripts follow. Some Boing Boing readers have mirrored copies of the videos; here is one link.

(Special thanks to Dawn Newton for transcribing assistance. Loughner's own typos and grammatical anomalies have been left uncorrected.)

(Video Link, embedded at the top of this blog post.)


If there's no flag in the constitution then the flag in the film is unknown.

There's no flag in the constitution.

Therefore, the flag in the film is unknown.

Burn every new and old flag that you see.

Burn your flag!

I bet you can imagine this in your mind with a faster speed.

Watch this protest in reverse!

Ask the local police; "What's your illegal activity on duty?".

If you protest the government then there's a new government from protesting.

There's not a new government from protesting.

Thus, you aren't protesting the government.

There's something important in this video: There's no communication to anyone in this location.

You shouldn't be afraid of the stars.

There's a new bird on my right shoulder. The beak is two feet and lime green. The rarest bird on earth, there's no feathers, but small grey scales all over the body. It's with one large red eye with a light blue iris. The bird feet are the same as a woodpecker. This new bird and there's only one, the gender is not female or male. The wings of this bird are beautiful; 3 feet wide with the shape of a bald eagle that you could die for. If you can see this bird then you will understand. You think this bird is able to chat about a government? I want you to imagine a comet or meteoroid coming through the atmosphere.

On the other hand, welcome yourself to the desert: Maybe your ability to protest is from the brainwash of the current government structure.

HELLO, posted December 15, 2010
[Video Link]

Hello, my name is Jared Lee Loughner.

This video is my introduction to you! My favorite activity is conscience dreaming; the greatest inspiration for my political business information. Some of you don't dream - sadly.

Firstly, the current government officials are in power for their currency, but I'm informing you for your new currency! If you're treasurer of a new money system, then you're responsible for the distributing of a new currency. We now know - the treasurer for a new money system, is the distributor of the new currency. AS a result, the people approve a new money system which is promising new information that's accurate, and we truly believe in a new currency. Above all, you have your new currency, listener?

Secondly, my hope - is for you to be literate! If you're literate in English grammar, then you comprehend English grammar. The majority of people, who reside in District-8, are illiterate - hilarious. I don't control your English grammar structure, but you control your English grammar structure.

Thirdly, I know who's listening: Government Officials, and the People. Nearly all the people, who don't know this accurate information of a new currency, aren't aware of mind control and brainwash methods. If I have my civil rights, then this message wouldn't have happen.

In conclusion, my ambition - is for informing literate dreamers about a new currency; in a few days, you know I'm conscience dreaming! Thank you.

INTRODUCTION: JARED LOUGHNER - posted December 15, 2010
[Video Link]

My Final Thoughts: Jared Lee Loughner!

Most people, who read this text, forget in the next 2 second!

The population of dreamers in the United States of America is less than 5%!

If 987,123,478,961,876,341,234,671,234,098,601,978,618 is the year in B.C.E. then the previous year of

987,123,478,961,876,341,234,671,234,098,601,978,618 B.C.E. is

987,123,478,961,876,341,234,671,234,098,601,978,619 B.C.E.

987,123,478,961,876,341,234,671,234,098,601,978,618 is the year in B.C.E.

Therefore, the previous year of 987,123,478,961,876,341,234,671,234,098,601,978,618 B.C.E is 987,123,478,961,876,341,234,671,234,098,601,978,619 B.C.E.

If B.C.E. year are unable to start then A.D.E. years are unable to begin.

B.C.E. years are unable to start.

Thus, A.D.E. years are unable to begin.

If A.D.E. is endless in year then the years in A.D. E. don't cease.

A.D.E. is endless in year.

Therefore, the years in A.D. E don't cease.

If I teach a mentally capable 8 year old for 20 consecutive minutest to replace an alphabet letter with a new letter and pronunciation then the mentally capable 8 year old writes and pronounces the new letter and pronunciation that's replacing an alphabet letter in 20 consecutive minutes.

I teach a mentally capable 8 year old for 20 consecutive minutes to replace an alphabet letter with a new letter and pronunciation.

Thus, the mentally capable 8 year old writes and pronounces the new letter and pronunciation that replaces an alphabet letter in 20 consecutive minutes.

Every human who's mentally capable is always able to be treasure of their new currency.

If you create one new currency then you're able to create a second new currency.

If you're able to create a second new currency then you're able to create third new currency.

You create one new currency.

Thus, you're able to create a third currency.

You're a treasurer for a new currency, listener?

You create and distribute your new currency, listener?

You don't allow the government to control your grammar structure, listener?

If you create one new language then you're able to create a second new language. If you're able to create a second new language then you're able to create a third new language.

You create one new language.

Thus, you're able to create a third new language.

All humans are in need of sleep.

Jared Loughner is a human.

Hence, Jared Loughner is in need of sleep.


If I define sleepwalking then sleepwalking is the act or state of walking, eating, or performing other motor acts while asleep, of which one is unaware upon awakening.

I define sleepwalking.

Thus, sleepwalking is the act or state of walking, eating or performing other motor acts while asleep, of which one is unaware upon awakening.

I'm a sleepwalker - who turns off the alarm clock.

All conscience dreaming at this moment is asleep.

Jared Loughner is conscience dreaming at this moment.

Thus, Jared Loughner is asleep.


If I define terrorist then a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.

I define terrorist.

Thus, a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.

If you call me a terrorist then the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem. You call me a terrorist.

Thus, the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.

Every United States Military recruit at MEPS in Phoenix is receiving one mini bible before the tests.

Jared Loughner is a United States Military recruit at MEPS in Phoenix.

Therefore, Jared Loughner is receiving one mini bible before the tests.

I didn't write a belief on my Army application, and the recruiter wrote on the application: None.

The majority of citizens in the United States of American have never read the United States of America's Constitution.

You dpn't have to accept the federalist laws.

Nonetheless, read the United States of America's Constitution to apprehend all of the current treasonous laws.

You're literate, listener?

If the property owners and government official are no longer in ownership of their land and laws from a revolution then the revolutionary's from the revolution are in control of the land and laws.

The property owners and government officials are no longer in ownership of their land and laws from a revolution.

Thus, the revolutionary's from the revolution are in control of the land and laws.

In conclusion, reading the second United States Constitution, I can't trust the current government because of the ratifications: The government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar.

No! I won't pay debt with a currency that's not back by gold and silver!

No! I won't trust in God!

What's government if words don't have meaning?

HOW TO: MIND CONTROLLER, posted December 6, 2010
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If you're editing of every belief and religion reaches the final century then the writer for every belief and religion is you.

You're editing of every belief and religion reaches the final century.

Thus, the writer for every belief and religion is you.

You control every -- thought, action, and lifestyle -- for the person or people as the mind controller.

I'm able to control every belief and religion by being the mind controller.




[Video Link]

(The below is listed right under the video in the Info section)


If I'm not receiving the purchase from a payment then I'm a victim of fraud. I'm not receiving the purchase from a payment. Therefore, I'm a victim of fraud.

All purchases for an educational course in The United States as of now are unconstitutional in the United States of America because of Section 10 in the United States of America's Constitution. A student paying for a Pima Community College course is a purchase for an educational course in the United States as of now. Therefore, a student paying for a Pima Community College course is unconstitutional in the United States of America because of Section 10 in the United States of America's Constitution.

If you're receiving a grade from Pima Community College class then the grade you're receiving is unconstitutional because of the United States Bill of Rights. You're receiving a grade from Pima Community College class. Therefore, the grade you're receiving is unconstitutional because of the United States Bill of Rights. The grading you purchase from Pima Community College is unconstitutional at tuition.

The United States Department of Education is allowing unconstitutional education facility's to operate or the United States Department of Education is allowing free constitutional education facility's to operate. The United States Department of Education isn't allowing unconstitutional education facility's to operate. Thus, the United States Department of Education is allowing free constitutional education facility's to operate.

If the police remove you from the educational facility for talking then removing you from the educational facility for talking is unconstitutional in the United States. The police remove you from the educational facility for talking. Thus, removing you from the educational facility for talking is unconstitutional in the United States. This situation is fraud because the police are unconstitutional!

Every police officer in the United States as of now is unconstitutionally working. Pima Community College police are police in the United States. Therefore, Pima Community College police are unconstitutionally working. The police are unconstitutionally working!

All United States of America's college programs are unconstitutional colleges that's in accordance with the United States of America's Constitution. Pima Community College is a United States of America's college program. Hence, Pima Community College is an unconstitutional college that's in accordance with the United States of America's Constitution.

Every Pima Community College class is using free sources for education from the internet. Algebra is a Pima Community College class. Thus, Algebra is a free source for education from the internet. Every Pima Community College class is always a scam!

If you're literate in English grammar then you know English grammar. You don't know English grammar. Thus, you're not literate in English grammar. Most of the teachers and students at Pima Community College are illiterate.

If I'm thinking of adding the 1 new symbol and number to the current alphabet and number system then I'm thinking of creating 1 new symbol and number to the current alphabet and number system. I'm thinking of adding the 1 new symbol and number to the current alphabet and number system. Thus, I'm thinking of creating 1 new symbol and number to the current alphabet and number system. You control the grammar!


Don't be scared to know you can't find the location of a subject: Most students can't locate a subject! Most people know all the subjects are for mind control and brainwash! The students are unconstitutionally paying for free education! The students are attending a torture facility! You know the teachers are con artists?

You now know - every college's unconstitutional crime! You shouldn't pay unconstitutional money for free speech! Don't trust the current government, listener!

HOW TO: YOUR NEW CURRENCY! Posted November 22, 2010
[Video Link]

How To: Your New Currency!

















  1. F*ing scumbag. Our country is set up to allow for change in a non-violent means.

    I can already see the liberals saying he was a tea party member. And the tea party caused this.

    1. Some might. But most are willing to acknowledge he’s just another nutter.

      I’d advise against raising ire against one political party or another before its due. Things are bad enough already.

    2. Well, there’s a difference between saying “the tea party caused this” and “this is why the tea party shouldn’t use violent rhetoric.” Whether or not Loughner was influenced by Palin’s little map with target symbols on it (and right now it looks like he probably wasn’t) she’s still a complete jerk for having created it.

      All along it was pretty obvious that something like this could eventually happen. So why can’t some politicians be bothered to think twice about what they say?

    3. See when I read this, I don’t think “scumbag”; I see a very mentally ill young man who did not get the help for his disease that he clearly needed/needs.

      It would be nice if the Republicans reacted to this by
      1) Stop their attempt to repeal health care
      2) Start improving health care so that EVERYONE has access to health care, incl. for brain diseases, in the US
      3) Start considering our gun laws

      Re: 3, should a person suffering from an apparently untreated disease of the brain really be allowed to have a gun? His college expelled him because of lack of treatment — but did his parents or anyone try to take away his guns?

      I’d also like to know what tv programs he watched. I can only imagine what harm is done to an already mentally ill, untreated person when/by watching Glenn Beck.

      1. Re: 3, should a person suffering from an apparently untreated disease of the brain really be allowed to have a gun?

        If a person is involuntarily committed to a psychiatric hospital, then their right to buy or possess guns is suspended. The right can be restored upon petition to a court. Mental illness is a broad term. It includes things like anxiety, depression, schizophrenia, learning disorders, personality disorders, etc. And it varies in intensity among all of these. If you took away gun rights from anyone with a history of mental illness, then you would be affecting over 1/3 of all citizens. And if you take away gun rights without due process to know if a person is a threat, then many people with mental illness will hide their problems.

        Gun rights are taken away from those involuntarily committed primarily to prevent their suicides. The actual rate of violent crime by the acutely mentally ill is no higher than average.

        Of course, the solution to protecting against the small number of violently mentally ill people is to restrict their gun rights. But that would mean that we would actually have to care about them and try to get them treatment (or at least a risk assessment). Good luck on getting anyone to pay for that.

      2. This is all very sad and truly tragic. It’s interesting to note that the police chief referred to the generally poison atmosphere in the country that almost (but not fully scapegotable) served as a catalyst for this.

        It will be very interesting to see how an alleged ‘left leaning’ ‘progressive’ shooting a Democrat in Arizona gets spun by all the big news stations (ABC, CNN, NBC, CBS, and Fox). I’m eagerly curious.

        No group from the Tea Party to Mitt Romney’s PAC to Glenn Beck to Stephen Colbert is to blame at all for this. It’s much more cumulative than any of this.

        But i also hope that the Congress member pulls through (at this time she is in ICU).

        I wonder if the U.S.A. would be a radically different country if it had a better attention span, and a longer memory? Any opinions, anyone?

      3. You are 100% correct it is Glenn Beck logic. Poor kid, I see it now; the “Glenn Beck Defense”. It works for me!

    4. I don’t think the Tea Party probably had much with making this kid kill, but making his primary target this particular woman?
      There is no way to ever know for certain.

    1. Ummm, there are both. The Nazis were effing nuts, but also political. Sometimes political movements are effing nuts, and this racist, hateful anti-immigrant right wing is one of them.

  2. Dear editors of BoingBoing,

    now that it is becoming more and more apparent that the shooter was simply a lunatic, and neither a left nor right wing lunatic, when can we expect a full apology from Xeni Jardin for making a vile false accusation against Sarah Palin?

    I hope the answer doesn’t include the phrase, ‘when hell freezes over…’

    1. Erm, Xeni did no such thing. I just went and looked back at what was posted, and in no way did she make such an accusation. Specifically, this is what was written:

      “Gifford was among those in Arizona whose offices were targeted with vandalism and threats during the health care debate in 2009.
      (via @nytjim)

      Giffords was also one of the lawmakers Sarah Palin “set her sights on” in the Palin PAC infographic below ( The congresswoman and others are targeted with simulated gun sights on a map of the United States. ”

      These were direct quotes from assorted sources, with actual graphics that were in fact used by the Palin campaign.

      Thanks for playing, though.

      1. Rather, the graphics part is irrefutable, anyway. The other parts were quotes from various sources.

        1. Unfortunately MrJim, we will never have that apology. Xeni never explicitly said it was Palin’s fault, just implied that a Palin follower had something to do with it due to the now unfortunate use of a target reticule for graphic simplicity sake. We will also never have an apology from the many, many people who jumped to the erroneous conclusion that this person was a Tea Party, liberal hating, Christian right winger.
          He is a disturbed individual who has nothing to do with any coherent ideology, but those looking to demonize the Right Wing will use any excuse.
          Respondents to articles such as this one and the first on this subject make me wonder why I continue to read BoingBoing. I love the views that I normally would not get to read, but the vitriol poured out to anything conservative turns my stomach.

          1. Unfortunately that’s not true. Intentionally or not, you are associating conservatism and a permissive attitude to hate speech to be one and the same. They are not.
            Also, I agree with snorcup. Thanks for saying it in a clear manner.

          2. There is still an overlap between some in the self-identified right-wing and calls for death.

            Certainly, there are people of honour on all shades of the political spectrum…

      2. From the Daily Kos

        “Well, I’d argue that we can narrow the target list by looking at those Democrats who sold out the Constitution last week. I’ve bolded members of the Blue Dogs for added emphasis.
        Giffords, Gabrielle (AZ-08)
        Not all of these people will get or even deserve primaries, but this vote certainly puts a bulls eye on their district.”

        Target list???
        BULLS EYE???

        Markos Moulitsas, j’accuse!!!

    2. Which “vile false accusation”?

      If it was a tweet from earlier today, I expect it to stand.

      Inciting the insane is still “having blood on your hands”.

    3. MrJim, the problem is this: when unthinkable things such as these shootings happen after comments such as Palin’s and Sharon Angle’s, there’s bound to be finger-pointing. That’s just one of many reasons why Palin’s and Angle’s comments were ill-advised.

      1. “MrJim, are you claiming that Giffords was not on Palin’s “target” map?”

        Show me a direct linkage between Palin’s map and the actions of Mr. Loughner. If you’re going to play that game, why not include President Obama’s inciteful rhetoric, “to punish their enemies” or ““If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun, bBecause from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.”

        My point is that Ms. Jardin should have exercised some responsiblity by finding out all the facts before pointing fingers. I would have thought that the cases of media sensationalism and irreponsibility involving Richard Jewel, the Duke lacrosse, etc. would serve as some example for the need to show restraint no matter one’s personal politics.

        1. re “3) Start considering our gun laws
          Re: 3, should a person suffering from an apparently untreated disease of the brain really be allowed to have a gun? ”

          You can’t stop the crazies all of the time. You can’t. If he had a record or some official way for it to be in the ‘system’ then the background check would have stopped the sale.

          But that doesn’t stop him from stealing a gun, being given one, or buying one face-to-face.

          He used a .22 for crying out loud. This is considered a ‘plinker’, the tamest of pistols.

          One nut job shouldn’t affect MILLIONS of other legal, law abiding people. It is irrational to think otherwise.

          The Obama health plan had little to do with mental health. In general there needs to be a paradigm shift in the way America deals with those with mental illness.

          1. MSNBC is now reporting that the handgun used was a Glock 9mm with a 30 round clip. The shooter also had another 30 round clip and a couple of 15 round clips on him.

            The lowly .22 and other low velocity/low mass rounds can make for a pretty serious gun shot wound since they have a tendency to bounce around internally like a blender instead of punching through.

          2. re: “9mm vs .22”

            Then the earlier thing I read was in correct. You are right a .22 isn’t anything to laugh at. IIRC, a lot of gang shootings are with cheap .22 and .32 cal pistols.

            The Glock is what I expected it to be. Pretty generic. But the kind/type isn’t really relevant.

            And I know I am being a nit picking asshole, but technically they are magazines, not clips ;o)

        2. MrJim, why should I show you “a direct linkage”? Can you cite a post where Xeni said there was “a direct linkage”? What does that even mean?

          Mentally ill people don’t live in some kind of magical force field, immune from any social influence. If media personalities keep using aggressive rhetoric, and talking about targets, that’s going to have an effect. Palin’s ad mentioned Giffords by name, and associated shooting and targets with her. Giffords’s rival invited his supporters to defeat Giffords by shooting with him. While not proven, it’s certainly possible that these ads might have helped build an associated in Loughner’s mind between Giffords and a heightened level of anxiety. That’s why these aggression-based ad campaigns are irresponsible.

          1. I don’t want to live in a world bubble-wrapped to be safe enough for even the most schizophrenic. It is the nature of their disease that if they don’t get one thing to seize upon, they will just seize upon something else. There have been mothers who have killed their children out of a belief that they were demon-possessed. Does that mean we suspend the 1st Amendment and all exercise of religion? Suppose we did. Not only would millions of peaceful, sane Americans lose their rights, but it would be pointless, because those same mothers would simply have a different delusion, replacing gods and demons with space aliens or the Illuminati or something.

            The mentally ill are mentally ill, and the only humane response is proper treatment.

          2. Firstly, let me apologize for the snarky comment in my first comment. I don’t know Ms. Jardin personally, and I don’t know her motives for posting what she did. My comment was uncalled for.

            “why should I show you “a direct linkage?”

            Well, because if you or one of your blog writers is going to make the direct implication that Palin’s map caused the shooter to act, you better have good, no, solid evidence that the shooter was aware of the map and that rhetoric and both were major factors in his decision.

            “Can you cite a post where Xeni said there was “a direct linkage? What does that even mean?”

            Sure, go back and read her post. Ms. Jardin is very clear in placing blame on Palin, her map, and Gifford’s rival without any factual evidence to back that claim up. Ms. Jardin clearly insinuates that Palin was directly responsible for the shooters actions. If facts come out later that the shooter was influence by this map, then Palin should account for that. However, no one, I repeat NO ONE knows anything beyond the fact that Mr. Loughner was a disturbed individual, most likely not acting upon some political ideology.

          3. You act as if he went out and shot Rondald McDonald instead of a Democratic politician.

            By the way, if the Palin gun crosshair trigger hitlist map wasn’t inappropriate or possibly dangerous at all… I wonder why Palin pulled it off the internet today?

            Maybe you should take this up with Palin instead. She seems to disagree with you and shows it with her recent actions.

          4. MrJim, I suggest something can be learned by a comparison of the BB response to this shooting as against the response to last year’s Fort Hood attack.

            Here’s one thread, there are several:


            Note that in the discussion of Fort Hood, many BB regulars, including more than one moderator, instantly take the podium to say “Let’s not jump to conclusions. This guy is probably a lone nut. There’s no ideological influence here. And especially, let’s not blame a community or a belief system.”

            Note that in the discussion of yesterday’s Arizona shooting, similar language is just a bit harder to find.

            As for the reason why, the proof is left to the student…

          5. Well, the map can certainly be mentioned because Rep. Gabrielle Giffords went on MSNBC (3/25/2010) and *specifically decried* Palin’s map after her office was vandalized. (2:22)


            She said:

            “…it has a crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. And when people do that, you gotta realize that there are consequences to that action.”

            She said this. Later, she got shot at a political event. It’s relevant to the story.

            Did Giffords’ blood need to be spilled by someone whose ideology matched Palin’s in order for her concerns to be valid?

    4. But it’s not a false accusation. Sarah Palin epitomizes the sort of worship of violence that is tearing America apart – and making the weapons manufacturers richer. I’ve seen innocent men bleeding their life out because guns are too easy for psychopaths to access. It needs to be reined in. Fuck your expedient, selfish interpretation of the Second Amendment. Unless you’re in a federally-appointed militia, you have no Constitutional right to carry a gun.

  3. Man, everything’s a syllogism with this guy. It’s like he thinks if he can just fit his ideas into a logical form, they’ll become rational.

    I love the idea that we’re supposed to burn the American flag because it’s not in the US Constitution. That’s the simplest political brain-short-circuiter I’ve ever seen.

    1. Thanks, syllogism is the word I was looking for. Yes, wow.. He barely expresses anything BUT! Poor guy.. it must have been hard trying to contort life to fit into logic. No surprise he went off. I’m not condoning, OF COURSE. Just saying it’s not a big surprise.

  4. Hmm. Ooookay.

    What’s with all the “If A is true then B must be true. A is true. Therefore B is true.” Did he think this expression of logic was an infallible way to present any argument? So peculiar.

    I’d love to meet his parents.

  5. Man, not to sound like the token asshole-of-the-internet grammar Nazi, but for all of the emphasis this guy placed on grammar and literacy, he sure wasn’t any kind of great shakes at it.

    As for the political side of it all, this guy was a lunatic. There’s no evidence whatsoever that anything posted by either Sarah Palin’s PAC or Markos Moulitsas had any influence on this kid. His YouTube profile shows he read books beloved by liberals and conservatives, so I don’t think either side can force him on the other. And you can see from the incoherent mess above that he was an egotistical maniac.

    No one but the Feds interviewing him right now–and maybe not even they–know anything about his motives. Crazy people are notoriously crazy and as a result their motives are often hard to discern because there is rarely any logic behind them.

  6. This makes me so sad. I wanted to be angry at this person, but he’s clearly just very ill. Proper medical treatment would likely have prevented the whole incident. I only feel sorry for him now…

  7. I have to agree with MrJim on this one…

    BoingBoing is a fantastic web site, and I love a lot of the stories I find here throughout my day.

    With that being said, there is a lot of liberal anti republican and anti tea party sentiment that drips from the articles and comments on this site, and the early coverage of this story was a prime example.

    There may not be a specific quote where Xeni said “This is Sarah Palins fault”, but that sure was the feeling when reading the first posting, including the links to her campaign material.

    This country is in a bad spot at the moment. We are spending ourselves to death, destroying what our fore fathers worked so hard to build, and we are doing it in the name of the metaphoric children. I know everyone seems to think that Obama and health care are the the answers, and that we need to tax the evil rich people to oblivion to pay for their prosperity, but you need to take a long hard look at what you are doing.

    The “tea-baggers” by in large are a peaceful group of people who are legitimately scared of what they see going on in the world today, and they are taking a stand (legally and respectfully) to try and effect change.

    This guy was nuts. It’s pretty obvious that he went off the deep end, and was angry at something, but who can tell what it really was when looking at these ramblings.

    What he did was wrong, and I hope he pays for it with his life, but don’t blame this on the tea party, or guns, or Sarah Palin, or any other group or issue that you perceive to be “Right Wing” and evil just because it’s the easy thing to do. We can’t afford it right now.

    1. I don’t think it helps to execute crazy people.

      (It has yet to be determined that the alleged assassin is crazy.)

    2. ‘With that being said, there is a lot of liberal anti republican and anti tea party sentiment that drips from the articles and comments on this site, and the early coverage of this story was a prime example.”

      So you’re denying the Palin campaign put that stuff up, then…?

      Give me a f**king break. Yes, this guy was just a random nutjob likely not affiliated with EITHER party, but don’t even begin to start denying that Palin and company said the things that they did.

      That lack of affiliation is something that only emerged later in the investigation, and that most unfortunate graphic was well worth spotlighting, if just to demonstrate how little thoughtfulness Palin & co. put into their campaign.

    3. Snorcup, do you see the irony in your comment?

      You’re asking for Xeni to apologize for something she didn’t say, because you’re offended by Xeni’s remarks about something Sarah Palin actually did say.

    4. I call bullshit on all counts. The tea partiers have no idea how thoroughly they’re being duped by the military-industrial complex (ask a diehard conservative like Eisenhower about it), and they’re selfish, myopic, functionally illiterate cro-magnons who, nearly unanimously crow such bile as “when you pry it from my cold dead fingers”. If you don’t like the content of Boing Boing, I have a solution – fck ff! The balance of us wll be much happier and healthier without you.

  8. Sheriff Clarence Dupnik of Pima County speaking about Arizona:

    “When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And, unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry.
    “It’s not unusual for all public officials to get threats constantly, myself included. And that’s the sad thing of what’s going on in America. Pretty soon, we’re not going to be able to find reasonable, decent people who are willing to subject themselves to serve in public office.”

    1. Sheriff Dupnik kind of rocked that press conference, they played the whole thing on the local channels here in Tucson. Like I said above, this story is really close to home for me, but it really reminded me of how Guiliani was really awesome for a day about nine years ago.

  9. Just read through those transcripts and it gave me a bit of a headache trying to find some sense to it. That’s gotta be some of the most bizarre non-sensical ramblings I’ve ever read. I’m sure in his head it made perfect sense.
    And that’s damn poor grammar for someone so bent on ranting about illiteracy!

  10. Sadly I can’t think of a sensible way to keep people like this from owning firearms. Can you? There’s going to be some more arrests here. I’m thinking someone in his immediate circle was pretty well aware that this kid was becoming unhinged and had a proclivity for violence. Those people chose to do and say nothing, and in all likelihood encouraged this retard. Latest I’ve heard is that someone else drove him to Safeway this morning.

    I take classes at Pima Community College, mostly at the same campus this kid apparently attended. This isn’t really boding well for the value of my credits from there. It’s actually a great school most of the time.

    This whole thing is pretty close to home for me, I voted for Giffords twice and although I’ve never met her face to face I am well aware of what an intelligent and gentle person she is. She has a well-earned reputation for actually helping people in our district with their issues. Really, she’s an outstanding public servant. Her latest proposal was to cut congressional salaries, how cool is that!

    1. “Sadly I can’t think of a sensible way to keep people like this from owning firearms. Can you?”

      Sure, since schizophrenia manifests itself in one’s 20s, make the legal age for gun ownership 28.

      Or outlaw private ownership of anything more lethal than a hunting rifle, unless you can prove that you need it for your profession.

      I don’t see why you’d assume that the status quo is “sensible” at all. People generally don’t need firearms.

      1. Sure, since schizophrenia manifests itself in one’s 20s, make the legal age for gun ownership 28.

        Because then you cannot justify sending 18 year olds to war and it becomes muddled and dysfunctional.

        Here is the deal: Require a background check and a buffer period for gun ownership and things change. It’s really that simple. Only the NRA would like you to think this is more complex than that. When it isn’t.

        Also, I $%@#& Drowning Pool “Bodies” song. It’s just so sick and violent without any humor or irony. I’m actually sadly happy this sick duck decided to use it as a soundtrack to one of his videos. It deserves to be tainted and tossed in the trash.

        1. Because then you cannot justify sending 18 year olds to war and it becomes muddled and dysfunctional.

          Exactly. Can you justify sending kids to war who are not even old enough to drink?

      2. I’m in no way claiming that the status quo is sensible, in fact in Arizona it’s flat out ridiculous. Concealed carry is legal here with no special permit necessary, so you basically have to assume people around you are carrying firearms. Also it’s legal to shoot people anywhere if you “feel threatened,” it’s a legalized Wild West cliche. This is actually the type of environment that right-wing pundits and politicians (such as S. Palin) argue for every chance they get.

        But the things you suggest are far too problematic to even consider. As Jack noted we allow 18 year olds to fight and die in wars… The Second Amendment wouldn’t be negated without it engendering a violent revolution and I wouldn’t be satisfied with that scenario in any case. I’m all for more widespread and available mental healthcare, but I don’t think psychiatric testing for people wanting to buy weapons is a viable option for about a million reasons. Schizophrenia is rarely easy to diagnose and it’s actually a blanket term for a large swath of mental illnesses.

        I’m not even really comfortable declaring that the bastard in question here is actually schizophrenic based on what we see here. I’m no psychiatrist by any means, but couldn’t this type of crap could be generated by an angsty ‘will to power’ dork who likes to mentally masturbate with what he thinks are deep thoughts?

        1. Schizophrenia is rarely easy to diagnose and it’s actually a blanket term for a large swath of mental illnesses.

          True, but the thing I know in my experience being 42 years old and dealing with—and working with—friends and colleagues that have clearly suffered from violent mental illness is friends and families often will overprotect such people to their own benefit. Who wants the stigma of having a “mental case” in the family? Nobody. So behavior is excused or ignored until it blows up outside of the family circle.

          You know what society needs? A way to truly de-stigmatize those who mental illness so families can get treatment for loved ones instead of hiding them in the attic until the worst happens.

        2. But isn’t this the gun lobby argument? They claim that if everyone had a concealed-carry permit, these things wouldn’t happen or would result in the second shot taking out the original gunman.

          As far as I’ve heard, that’s not what happened here. No one shot this guy. Doesn’t this disprove the argument?

          Any reason this case shouldn’t be an example? Pro-gun people, please tell us how this incident fits. I’m not attacking, I just want your take.

    1. What are you? A socialist!

      Note: I fully support universal health acre and access to therapy. I recommend cognitive therapy in fact.

  11. I worked at a major radio network for several years, and every so often we’d get mail from listeners who would ramble on and on in a very similar manner to this kid’s ramblings. Some of these folks would openly admit they were schizophrenic. Obviously I don’t know if that’s this guy’s problem, but I’d certainly entertain the possibility. I imagine he’s the same kind of guy that ends up yelling to himself and other commuters on the subway in NYC. Or, you know, shoots a bunch of people at a public event because his paranoia was out of control.

  12. From my reading I suspect that Loughner would have little interest in Palin. Actually I take that back; I think he would actively dislike her.

    Within his madness he clearly sees himself as highly technical and above religion and patriotism.

    The idea that a person with this sort of self image would put any weight in the statements of Sarah Palin seems beyond bizarre.

  13. Sad, and spooky. In my humble estimation, I think we’re looking at batshitinsane of some flavor or another, but I don’t discern too much political focus – or focus of any kind – in the bramble of text…

    1. Why does he use the term “second United States Constitution”?

      Because it is.

      Articles of Confederation


      I departed Xeni’s original post on the shooting with a comment to look this up again. This can be a dog whistle to certain conspiracy theorists who believe the current US Constitution to be illegal for various reasons.

      The Articles have no Bill of Rights, and are mainly about when Congress can go on recess, and when militias are allowed to move across state lines.

      It also accepts the sanction of “the Great Governor of the World” in forming the United States. Yep, founded with the blessing of a Supreme Deity.

      Oh, and pirates. There’s stuff about fighting pirates in there.

      This was our governing document for over ten years. It wasn’t working. So the Founding fathers got the band back together, and brought out their biggest hits: The Constitution we know today with ten bonus tracks of awesome Rights.

      They didn’t mention the Governor of the World’s input this time, relying on We The People to make it work. This has served us much better. Though there’s still a clause in there about piracy.


      They threw out God and kept the pirates.

      1. I read his “2nd Constitution” & gold-backed currency stuff as part of the sovereign citizen movement tropes:
        Though not purely s.c., I expect there will be some links found between the shooter & the movement. I wouldn’t be surprised to find some white power mixed in there as well. I have also noticed a number of sovereign citizen key terms & ideas being thrown about on Fox News throughout the last year, though I doubt for any deeper reasons than increasing viewership.

        1. Well, your link does mention this guy:

          David Wynn Miller. This Milwaukee, Wisconsin-based sovereign citizen is one of the most unusual of the “common law gurus” who travel the country holding seminars and offering legal advice. Miller has created his own unique version of English grammar, one that even many sovereign citizens find hard to understand or accept. He has also been active in Canada.

          There’s a match to the grammar lunacy.

      2. “They threw out God and kept the pirates.”

        Explains SO much, doesn’t it?

        I just love the blind spot about the guns. Sure, a nutter could just as easily use scissors, or a letter opener, or gardening shears, whatever. When was the last time you heard about a person armed with gardening shears kill almost 20 people in a few minutes? And don’t bring up box-cutters on an airplane.

        If they can be bothered, this is where a pile of people who HAVE said blind spot invent a new form or rhetoric and launch a hundred different versions of chaff to distract from some pretty basic concepts. People die. It’s good if they only die of old age, incurable diseases, unavoidable accidents, or just bad luck.

        If it wasn’t a large part of the national psyche that guns are essential to your very identity, there’d be a lot less guns. If you believed that it is noble to stand up and ask for help, instead of pretending that everything is all right, and hide the bad stuff that happens to everybody, then may, just maybe, people would be kinder to each other.

        If you all cared about the feelings of everybody you came in contact with, every day, and lived it, you’d influence those around you to do the same, instead of casting a shifty glance, and worrying about whether someone’s going to rob you, cheat you, hurt you, or betray you.

        When you bring a gun to a peace rally, you don’t get much peace. And when you send the riot squad to investigate a party, you end up with a riot.

        Shift your paradigms, you sad, lonely egotistical fearmongers. You can’t buy peace of mind, and you can’t kill everything in your way of it, either.

  14. Man — so glad I’m not an American.
    Casual claim: The guy was an Intel Op Useful Idiot, I’ll wager. Formal claim: Fascismo rhetoric is poor form, and history shows such language methods can be dangerous.
    Just acknowledge that — doing so doesn’t mean you’re persecuting S Palin or G beck. You’re just consenting to the empirically verifiable claim.
    I recommend to all US citizens to leave the country while you can. Come to Canada! No chance of invasion by the Eagle, as the Bear and Dragon both Want the True Northern princess ‘strong and free’.

    1. “come to Canada”

      If they don’t turn you back at the border for lack of money, lack of health care, and/or lack of jobs. It’s not like ordinary people have freedom to travel in this day and age.

  15. re: “While not proven, it’s certainly possible that these ads might have helped build an associated in Loughner’s mind between Giffords and a heightened level of anxiety. That’s why these aggression-based ad campaigns are irresponsible. ”

    Really? Give me a break. The only reason Palin is mentioned is because of the Anti-crush going on around here.

    Suggesting one shouldn’t use crosshairs in a graphic because someone might be crazy and get the idea to shoot them is ridiculous.

    I am not going to live my life worrying that something I do or don’t do is going to make someone snap and go on a rampage. To do otherwise is insane!

      1. I’ll take “who cares” for $500, Alex.

        Does it matter? They are ‘targeting’ political opponents. It is a metaphor. It isn’t like this is the first time cross hairs have been used in political campaigns or advertisements.

        What other contrived design element should we express outrage at next?

        1. I get that you don’t care. And that is part of the problem.

          Perhaps her next targeting icon will be a noose and she can claim that it is a metaphor to “execute a political ideology”. All of her followers can then bring rope to her rallies to show their support.

          1. Give me a break. You are seriously saying that some nut job went and shot someone because of a crosshair on and obscure graphic. Or that this ‘aggressive campaign’ led to the shooting?

            Hinkley saw Taxi Driver 15 times and shot the president. Does that mean we should ban violent movies? Or make sure you have a current psyche evaluation to watch them? Is Martin Scorsese even remotely responsible for the shooting of Reagan?

            The answer is no – no – and no.

            The guy who held up and shot at a school board a few weeks back used imagery from “V for Vendetta”. Is Allen Moore remotely responsible for his actions? No.

            The political punditry is clouding the ability for some people to think.

            PS: Are we becoming such huge pussys that we are worried about too aggressive of language in political campaigns. Better not attend a High School pep rally where their custom is to beat ’em, bust ’em.

          2. I must be crazy but I think it is best to try to treat people civilly and not use crosshairs to mark your opponents.

            I don’t think any speech should be banned unless it used to incite immediate violent action, or if it is used as a specific threat. I’m a big fan of John Stuart Mill and his views on speech. But I still feel Palin’s graphic was irresponsible.

            It is plausible that the right wing rhetoric could cause susceptible people to harm politicians if they have the chance. And this graphic is an extreme kind of inflammatory rhetoric. The US has had quite the horrible history of assassinations of politicians and leaders. That is all the more reason a responsible person would tone down the rhetoric. Sarah Palin did not mean for anyone to be attacked based on this graphic; I’m sure of it. But it was pointed out to be threatening by her targets, and she did nothing about it. She should have apologized and replaced it.

    1. “I am not going to live my life worrying that something I do or don’t do is going to make someone snap and go on a rampage. To do otherwise is insane!”

      Have you not been in an airport lately?

      Both sides have turned the dial to 11.
      Everything wrong is the other sides fault.
      We have calls for violence and intolerance at every level.
      No one has clean hands in any of this.

      We have a disturbed young man, who may or may not have had a mental illness.
      We have a culture jammed full of get them before they get you imagery.
      We have people on all sides trying to blame the other in any way possible, in the meantime another mentally disturbed person will have fallen out of the “safety net” that keeps getting cut away to make sure someone gets a tax break somewhere.
      This person will be marginalized even more by society looking down on them as yet another homeless who won’t do anything to improve their situation.
      They will take sensational rhetoric to heart, and this will lead to something tragic.

      I’m sorry your offended that someone pointed out the imagery used was in poor taste and part of the loss of civility in this country.
      I’m sorry you feel the best use of your voice is to defend Ms. Palin, rather than offer any sympathy for the deceased.
      Ms. Palin has made herself a public figure and needs to accept the good with the bad.
      Ms. Palin is a grownup, she does not need a merry band of people rushing to her aid every time they think she has been slighted.

      If only you cared about the profound shift in this country toward the politics of get them before they get you, as much as you care about random words on a website that you feel offend Ms. Palin’s honor.

      For anyone keeping score – People are DEAD.

      While the current political atmosphere COULD be something that added to the current tragedy, hey look the root of the problem is we have no mental health resources to offer people. We pay lip service to taking care of others, but we will not pay to make sure people can get help. When is the last time Congress took a pay cut so we could try to save a program?

      We now resume your regularly scheduled OMG HOW DARE YOU SULLY (insert your favored faction here)’s NAME IN THIS!

      In the footnotes on page 47b, they will mention he was mentally ill. There will be an accompanying piece talking about the shame of how few services actually exist to help the mentally ill before there is a tragedy. Sadly no one will get past the pieces screaming how its the other sides fault.

  16. I think this post sets a record for the most comments from butt-hurt Republicans. Innocent people were murdered today, folks–let’s try to keep some perspective.

  17. Sad. As others have pointed out, the lesson here is that our mental health system is dangerously broken and needs to be reformed immediately. Mentally ill people are involved in shootings and other violent crimes all too often. Most of these incidents could be avoided if they received the treatment, care and supervision that they deserve. There has been a string of them in my city recently, and every time it seems like there are obvious warning signs that go unheeded until a violent tragedy unfolds and it is too late.

    Mister44: Can you provide a reference? I haven’t seen any reports identifying the caliber of the gun used, only that it was a semi-auto.

    1. clearly, he’s deeply schizophrenic.
      but no reason to legally restrict him from buying a machine gun.

      Here’s a similar example from my own country.
      An in-depth article came out recently about Bryant. He was seriously and obviously a sick young man for years before the shootings. And all that time he was publicly misusing guns. Sometimes we really don’t see the warning signs.

  18. Steven, while I agree that your link to the twitter comment is defintely showing Xeni’s comment as being a stronger link to Palin “having blood on her hands,” Palin (or her PR team) has also removed the very target map which was the subject of an earlier BB post. So the implication that SP and her very violent and aggressive imagery had some measurable impact certainly holds water here.

    PS – this was exactly what the Rally to Restore Sanity and or Fear was getting at… You and I are both human beings and we deserve to be living on the planet together. Let’s all play nice and keep an eye out to fix the real problems with people in this country, such as the mental health issues that go untreated every day…

  19. Why does everything around here revolve around Palin?

    Maybe, just maybe, this guy was going after the top politician in his district. A judge was killed. 18 or 19 shot at in total, including a child. How on earth can he be inspired by political rhetoric?

    Using this to score political points is sick.

  20. The story so far: (1) violent verbal, graphic, and textual imagery are part of Sarah Palin’s branding and part of the rhetoric of other far-right political types, and have been for at least two years. (2) Today someone who is apparently crazy did something violent to many people, including people from the opposing party. (3) The activities described in (1) have been referenced in the aftermath of (2), and now supporters of Palin and others are upset about it. Have I got this straight?

  21. Let’s review, shall we?

    Sarah Palin said — and is still saying on her Facebook:

    “With the president signing this unwanted and “transformative” government takeover… We’re going to reclaim the power of the people… We’re going to fire them… thanks to their destructive government-growing policies… we’re going to hold them accountable for this disastrous Obamacare vote. They are… [list of 20 congress people includes:] Gabrielle Giffords (AZ-8)… We’ll aim for these races and many others. This is just the first salvo in a fight… [to] bring common sense to Washington. Please… join me in the fight… Real change is coming! IT’S TIME TO TAKE A STAND. Let’s take back the 20, together! Sarah Palin”

    Gifford said (c/o New York Times):

    “We’re on Sarah Palin’s targeted list,” Ms. Giffords said last March. “But the thing is the way that she has it depicted has the cross hairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they’ve got to realize there’s consequences to that.”

    The alleged shooter says on MySpace (now removed):

    “Goodbye friends…please don’t be mad at me.”

    Tea Party Nation web site says:

    “At a time like this, it is terrible that we do have to think about politics, but no matter what the shooter’s motivations were, the left is going to blame this on the Tea Party movement. While we need to take a moment to extend our sympathies to the families of those who died, we cannot allow the hard left to do what it tried to do in 1995 after the Oklahoma City bombing, within the entire political spectrum, there are extremists, both on the left and the right. Violence of this nature should be decried by everyone and not used for political gain.”

    I say right here:

    So there you have it; according to Tea Party officials, calls for violence are appropriate for political gain, and the consequences of those calls for violence are not. Tap-tap-no-erasies!

  22. It’s worth mentioning that “lone nut” goes beyond party affiliations. Giffords’ complaints about the map were for the charged environment things like it created, not that they were marching orders for “mainstream” members of one party or another.

  23. Frankly, this really reminds me of the ramblings on the label of Dr Bronner’s peppermint soap bottles… Dilute! Dilute! We are all one or none!

    1. @Anon

      I came here to write the same thing. Ctrl-F’ed for “Bronner” and found your comment.

  24. The shooter is clearly a nutjob.

    There is no doubt in my mind that Sarah Palin had no intention of inciting some nutjob like this.

    That doesn’t diminish the stupidity and relevancy of Palin’s advertising and “gunsight”.

    To those out there defending Palin and her “gunsight”, lets try a little thought experiment:

    Lets imagine Sarah Palin made the -same- infographic, only instead of the gunsights around the nation, there was ONE gunsight over the white house telling us to “prescribe the solution”, and “get on target”. Would that be ok? Would everyone just let that one slide or would Palin be getting a visit from some men in a black van?

    I’m not saying Sarah Palin was making a -deliberate- death threat, I side with the “Sarah Palin is a brainless moron” group and think this was another example of such. Still, this is very clearly a threat and has been proven to be a very real and dangerous one. This sort of rhetoric likely played a role in this shooting, setting off a clearly unstable man.

    Lets move past this though, it’s not just about the congresswoman or the politics or the crazy nutjob with the gun. Among the dead is a 9 year old girl. Maybe you guys should take a minute and think about -why-.

  25. re: “Lets move past this though, it’s not just about the congresswoman or the politics or the crazy nutjob with the gun. Among the dead is a 9 year old girl. Maybe you guys should take a minute and think about -why-.”

    Why? Uhhh – because of a crazy nut job.

    1. Crazy nut jobs aren’t necessarily violent in a vacuum. Even for the highly deranged, there’s always a context for action. And the violent atmosphere created by the Republican party and the various offshoots thereof (teabaggers, Palin) have created one helluva context.

      In other words: surprise, rhetoric has consequences.

      1. Give me a damn break. To pin this persons actions on anyone but himself is ridiculous. His dog could have been telling him to kill this lady.

        Just as Martin Scorsese isn’t to blame for Hinkley’s actions, neither is anyone else for this guys.

        Ridiculous. Hey, I know, lets find all the books that might lead to aggressive or violent actions and burn them!

    2. Not quite.

      A crazy nut job…yes…BUT with easy access to easy-to-use lethal equipment – equipment designed to do NOTHING else but to hurt and kill people.

      Ditch the second amendment.

      1. re: “Not quite.

        A crazy nut job…yes…BUT with easy access to easy-to-use lethal equipment – equipment designed to do NOTHING else but to hurt and kill people.

        Ditch the second amendment.”

        Utterly idiotic! You can’t stop the crazies all of the time. If he had taken his car and ran it into a crowd of people at a rally, would you call for the banning of easy access to cars? People every year commit murder and suicide via their cars.

        One person’s actions should not affect the millions of other legal, law abiding people.

  26. Heck – with a name like ‘Jared Lee Loughner’ he was bound to become either a nu-country singer, or a dude who shot someone for speculative (at best) reasons.

    I guess he couldn’t learn F,C, and G chords and looked goofy in a cowboy hat, so he chose the latter as his career path.

  27. I’ll just quote @Angry_Drunk from Twitter – Glad that everyone is being oh so reasonable & explaining how violent rhetoric couldn’t possibly inspire a whackaloon to violence.

  28. Posted this to the submitterator, but posting it here for those who are just following this thread:

    A 9-year-old girl who admired politics. “Born on September 11, 2001, Greene was excited about the political process, was on the student government, and went to the Giffords event today to learn more about the political process, family members say. […] Greene attended Mesa Verde Elementary School. She was the only girl on the CDO baseball team – she loved the sport, as well as horseback riding and swimming.”

    This make me so sad I cannot even express it. I hope this guy rots in hell.

  29. Yes, that is what I suspected. It is a term I have never heard before and a distinction that qualifies a certain mindset.

  30. I watched his videos and read the transcripts. Read a lot of the comments but got board. Maybe this has been said, I don’t think so. He is either smart and setting up an insanity defense when caught…or he is an idiot. I do not mean an idiot for the random shootings. I mean he seriously seems dim-witted. I do not get a sense of mental illness from what I see here. Just a young man too stupid to understand the world and how he could fit but arrogant enough to know it cannot be him that is off. Or he could be nuts.

  31. OK, re: the Palin thread here:

    Who cares who designed what idiotic design element on a map Palin probably got a good, crazy laugh out of, and said something idiotic like: “That’s it, reload, people!”

    The thing is, and this is why this thread makes no sense:

    Palin is insane also.

    In a different way than this nutjob.

    But she is still insane, while laughing all the way to the bank.

  32. Yup. The US needs more Jazz. Trunuff. Powell, Beiderbeck, Strayhorn, you name it. The USA needs more of it. Kill the ill… the Balm shall calm… Come on, man! The International heart of the states is thus!! Jazz will save us. Heal the wound of assassination? With Jazz. Stop the offense of Power? With Jazz. Bud Powell should be voted in as the permanent President of the US, Jazz…

    1. I do not share your optimism as to your proposed course of action.

      Nevertheless, I post this Bud Powell number here, in memory of those who have left us – or who have been taken from us:

      …during these mournful days.

  33. Erad3 DEFINITELY = Jared Lee Loughner. CREEPY. You can actually see him degenerating over the last year.

  34. This man, deranged or not, is AFAIK still only a suspect, so is it ethical or even fair to lynch-mob his YouTube videos in this way? Should he even be named? Until there’s a clear confession I’d have loved to see him referred to as “J.L.L., of Arizona”.

    This may not be how the Sun or the Daily Mail usually do things, but then I’d like to be able to hold Boing Boing to higher standards than them.

  35. Why should Xeni have to apologize for blaming the tenure of rhetoric that created the conditions that pushed this darkly deranged young man into his violent rampage?
    Why should we try to analyze his political bent based on the ramblings of his on line trail of semi coherence?
    Xeni is absolutely correct in identifying the conditions which created the trigger mechanism which caused this tragedy. I’ve read a lot of really dumb spinning here, and it is all about avoidance of the real issue!

    1. There isn’t a shred of evidence that the shooter ever saw Palin’s map, let alone that it inspired his actions. Correlation isn’t causation.

      Daily Kos posted a “target list” (their words) of congressional members, putting a “bulls eye” on them — Democrats who, in their words, “sold out the Constitution.” Gabrielle Giffords’ name appeared on this list. There is just as much evidence that this list inspired the shooter’s heinous actions as for Palin’s map.

      In the shooter’s rants he complains several times about references to God in government. Does this mean the ACLU, Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris ought to cool it with their anti-God crusade? In one video the shooter burns an American flag. Should the ACLU stop defending this act?

      I have a better idea: perhaps we shouldn’t let schizophrenics dictate what we can say. There is no small irony in the fact that the section of the Constitution Giffords read aloud earlier this week was the First Amendment.

  36. People need to stop blaming others, ESPECIALLY others SPEECH. Speech is free, and should remain so. They want nothing more than to curtail free speech as is. Is bannin rhetoric and legitimate gun ownership the answer here? How many rights will we cross off the constitution? Words don’t kill people, guns don’t choose to pull the trigger. This was obviously a crazy guy, I’ve read this stuff 1st hand on his YouTube channel, he’s freakin crazy. So why should I lose my constitutional rights over this? Why should palin be vilified for the actions of a madman? Why does no1 mention the absolute scumbaggyness of the left using this to attack the constitutionally protected free speech of political opponents? We went from 911 to the patriot act to tsa porno scanners in 10 short years. Please, do not let them politicize and commoditized yet another tragedy at the expense of freedom :(

  37. my thoughts on the palin-aspect:
    to me it is not so much important whether there is a direct connection between crosshairs on a palin website and a guy going postal.
    thing is, using the lingo palin used and others use is dangerous in its context.
    the whole “she did not intend” attitutde or (worse) the retreat into semantics and metaphore does not count in this case or in most other cases for that matter.
    when dealing with crowds, fear-laden issues and calls for action you must use your words wisely. use common sense.
    you would not make (harmless, unintentional, ironic) remarks about the sweet taste of heart medication around children.
    i guess everybody once had a bad moment hearing that someone crashed his car drunk after a party, knowing that he/she did not prevent a friend from drinking and driving. even if you hear that it was a completely different person who crashed will give you a bad moment and something to think about.
    i sincerely hope the fearmongers will have one of those moments right now.

    about the inevitable nazi germany comparisson:
    the nazis rarely openly favoured the killing of jews. their lingo was more in the vague direction of “have them pay”, “get even” or whatever and some people still today claim they only understood this in terms of redistributing goods, work camps, relocation and whatever but not murder. so even in the totalitarian systems you rarely have an open death threat.

    in my view palin was very negligent and if there turns out to be no direct connection – good for her and good for america. but definitely a good point in time to calm down and seriously reconsider the tone of debate.

    in the long run, playing with fire will cause a fire. be it an assasination, some lynch mob killing political opponents or something else.

  38. You really aren’t that important. You are NOT entitled to dictate what or how information is posted to this website.

    If you don’t like the way BoInGbOiNg represents a news story you can b*tch about it in the comments. That is unwise though since the moderators are free to regulate your whining according to the comment policy. If you keep on not liking the way stories are represented here you are *gasp* free to not visit this website.

    There are many websites I don’t go to because I disagree with their point of view. If it *really* gets your underwear in a bunch that people aren’t viewing things the way that you view them go get your own soapbox. Go get your own blog or post some youtube videos and make your opinion heard. Grow your own user base and stop hijacking this website’s platform. This place started out as a small counter-culture zine and over the years they grew it into the neat place it is today.

    We do not live in a monoculture. People need to get over the fact that different people have different points of view based on their background, knowledge and life experiences. If you lack the empathy to try to see things from another person’s point of view that is a fault with you not with them.

    1. johnnyaction, was that in response to my comment #101? I was merely questioning the naming of alleged suspects before everything is in the clear. People may not agree with me and do not have to, but I do think it’s a valid question to ask.

      Now, what happens in the unlikely event that it turns out it wasn’t him? Then I’d say his reputation and quite possibly his future has been damaged by this kind of coverage. Which is where the ethical prescription of not mentioning the suspects or alleged culprits by name comes from in the first place.

      1. I agree: the accused’s identity ought not to be revealed until after trial and conviction: unless she is on the loose, and the public’s help is required for her apprehension.

        The reason that it is not so, is not for any reasons appertaining to justice or morality: it is simply that the newspapers and other media want an easier time of things, and easier way to make their profits.

        And it apparently does not pay for a politician to propose changes which would make it harder for the media to make a buck from the suffering of people.

        1. …but I really don’t expect any media outlet to NOT play by the rules which other media outlets follow, so I’ve no problems with BB reporting the names of the accused: when in Rome, do as the Romans do.

          But IMHO it would be better if the ID of suspects in custody were NOT published prior to trial and conviction.

        2. Gee, it now occurs to me that that’s really not fair to the media, for they make their bucks from selling advertising, not directly from the sufferings of others: it is “regular people”, themselves, who wish to read or see or hear of the sufferings of others.

          One hopes that that particular popular impulse is directed at a nobler goal than simple rubber-necking…such as , to learn from the misfortunes and tragedies of others.

          But as gun control is a non-starter in America, I fear that Americans will learn nothing from these all-too-regular mass slaughters.

          And thus my suspicion that such tragic “news” is reduced to simple entertainment, if that latter is the case – if this just be rubber-necking.

      2. Well… Agger, I understand your apprehensiveness about the naming of a suspect before conviction (the whole, innocent until proven guilty thing).

        That said, the guy shot up a crowd of people and was subsequently tackled with the firearm in hand and forcibly held by multiple bystanders until the police could apprehend him.

        What I’m saying here is, this -is- the guy. Kindof hard to be innocent until proven guilty when your tackled in the process of committing a crime. Honestly, it shocks me that someone was able to hold this guy down and not be enraged enough to choke him out entirely given the horror of what took place. The man is lucky to be alive to see a trial.

    2. I really cannot fathom the logic of your seeming reply to my post. I agree that I am not important.
      What’s the problem?

      1. That’s not true, Microdot: you are just as important in the abstract as anybody else is.

        People only start to separate from each other in terms of their importance, if (and only if) they are being considered in relation to some outer goal or object, ie “X was more important than Y in bringing about Z”.

        A comparative measure, “importance” is.
        Comparing one person to another in light of a third, “conditioning” object.

        But considered alone and without relation to some other goal, or object, we are ALL equal in importance.

        1. Well, I was trying to get a reply from Johhnyaction to try to figure out what he was attempting to say to me. Perhaps I shall never know….Perhaps he will never know either.

          1. Thanks for the snark, I now have my daily fill of snark before breakfast.

            Not everyone here lives in the same timezone or even has the same schedule or is glued to boingboing comments 24/7.

      2. microdot: If it came across to you that my rambling post attacking you, that was not my intention.

        It wasn’t my intention to come across as attacking agger either since agger asked a valid question about privacy and rights of the accused.

        What my post was meant for was the people complaining about boingboing referring to things like Sarah Palin’s ‘target maps’ and almost demanding an apology for referencing the crazy environment that is Arizona and for that matter American politics.

        1. johnny action, i guess I am in a very different time zone, CET, but your comment came up seconds after i posted mine. No problem, I realize that you were not responding to me.sorry for the misunderstanding or perceived snarkism.

  39. “A.D.E”? What the hell is “A.D.E”? AD or CE, but “A.D.E”? And this guy was raging about “English grammar structure”. A complete fucking loony. Other people have touched on this, and yeah, there are similarities between the rants of J.L.L. and the Time Cube guy.

    Is the next loony going to base his/her fictitious monetary system on a weird interpretation of Gabriel’s Horn?

  40. U.S. District Judge John Roll yesterday struck down as unconstitutional a portion of the Brady handgun law requiring local authorities to check a gun buyer’s background. Roll upheld the rest of the law, which requires a five-day waiting period before purchasing a handgun. But he said background checks violated the 10th Amendment, which protects states’ rights, and the Fifth Amendment’s due-process clause.

  41. The kid was 22 years old, messed up and had a gun. The first two parts of this are understandable. The last part is inexcusable. Why is nobody asking why this kid had access to this kind of lethal hardware?

  42. In the UK a few years ago a schizophrenic and deeply disturbed man went into a nursery (probably what the Americans would call a kindergarden) with a machete. People where injured and he was fought of by parants. Luckily no one was killed, if he had easy access to a gun the outcome would probably have been tragic.

    1. another case in London saw a schizophenic man pushing people off a platform and under an onoming train on the underground system. The really disturbed people here still exist and try to kill other people for no reason, but the lack of ready access to firearms limits the damage they can do. If we had handguns everywhere, such killers could take out ten or twenty people before being overpowered, rather than one or two.

  43. Completely agree with all the people that came with the similarities to the Time Cube guy. I reads the same: weird logic, horrible grammar and syntactic structure, rage over government, mind control and education, and general continued incoherence.

    The only difference is that the Time cube guy didn’t shoot anyone…

  44. The guy is clearly deranged in some way. If he did commit the crimes he’s accused of, what would happen to him? You could imagine that he knew it was wrong to kill other people, but that he decided it was necessity to achieve his ‘goals’ – even confused, schizophrenic goals, in which case he’s guilty of murder.

    I think the BoingBoing posts on this illustrate something slightly arwy – the Judge the guy allegedly murdered is conservative, the nine year old girl is clearly innocent and has no political affiliation – it doesn’t quite fit with the Palin hypothes – apparently one idea that resonated with whack-job kid was the need to go back to a gold backed currency – in which case why not blame Ron Paul?

    We don’t actually know if this guy is guilty yet, just as we didn’t know whether Palin’s imbecile rhetoric actually precipitated the crime (apparently not in this case) – but you’re happy to imply he might be and she may have. According to the BBC “Local Police declined to confirm the name of the suspect” – it might be well to note that or to get a confirmation of the name of the suspect from the police. Apart from anything else we’ve all got an interest in there being a fair trial for these crimes. If you rake the muck ahead of a trial you jeopardise the prospects of bringing the accused to justice.

    It’s just sad that people do these things, and that 19 people getting shot likely won’t significant enough to prompt reform of gun laws in the USA.

  45. A note to all the non-American BoingBoing readers,

    You are correct that this act should, but won’t!, prompt concern about our lack of responsible gun policy in the U.S. Over the past 2 decades, the U.S. populace has been brainwashed by Republicans and other right wingers to see any and all gun legislation as acts of tyranny and contra-constitution (the Constitution being a bible-holy grail rolled into one).

    And that’s why you are also incorrect when you, non-U.S. inhabitants, state that we shouldn’t be concerned about the rhetoric of the right-wing OR that Sarah Palin’s sayings are not the point.

    Because if you don’t live here, you haven’t seen how the Fox media, media-savvy Republicans, and other noisy right-wingers have spread lies about what was happening to the country, used hate speech, and invoked images of violence as the ONLY ways to get back from the fate (ref: lies about what was happening) minute after minute for years on end…. so that many gullible Americans believe that Obama is a muslim terrorist born in another country come to overthrow our gov’t; that Mexican immigrants are invading our country across the AZ border to murder us in our beds; that Dems in Congress want death panels to put the elderly, infirm, and mentally disabled to death; that the Obama administration is the most corrupt in history; etc! AND then after these paranoid lies they are told that the only recourse is their gun.

    Gun “rights” and the hate rhetoric of the right are tied together.

  46. I live in the UK and am totally anti-gun ownership, but banning them in the US would be madness now – it’s too late, the genie’s out the bottle, all the guns already exist.

    Any sensible government wouldn’t have allowed gun ownership in the first place. I know/have known plenty of violent criminal and madmen in my time that have done all sorts of bad things, but not one of them has ever shot anyone. Why? Because here in the UK, getting hold of a gun is difficult and/or massively expensive. Only proper professional criminal gangs have guns, not your average Joe nutter on the street.

    In the US, half of those nutters I’ve known would have carried arms, because it’s simply easy to get hold of them.

    That’s an irrefutable argument against gun ownership. Pity it’s too late.

  47. From all this talk about symbolism, contextualization and ‘not getting it’, I would swear these arguments are being made by hipster art students.

  48. America is a terrorist country, so I think he’s right on some accounts, even if he’s clearly disturbed.

    Probably the community college should have offered this person help instead of expelling him. Creating outcasts because of paranoia might not be the best strategy to avoid this sort of thing.

  49. This brings back the same old question from us in the unarmed world – why do you allow anyone to have guns in the first place. Why does a regular citizen need a handgun? Sure – a farmer (a shotgun or rifle to put down an animal), but for the general populous?

    Very dumb. There’s just no need.

    1. re: “Why does a regular citizen need a handgun?
      Very dumb. There’s just no need.”

      Let me come over to your house and arbitarily decide what you do and do not ‘need’.

      I will be taking your car and leaving you with your local mass transportation schedule. Cars are extremely dangerous. Also any private pools are banned as well. You are more likely having a death in the house if you own a pool, vs a gun.

      Also, I don’t like XYZ. I don’t think anyone should own XYZ, as no one needs it. So lets get rid of XYZ less someone missuse it and it leads to death or injury.

      See how illogical your statements sound?

      1. A gun is far more dangerous than a car. In perfect conditions a person can kill many people with a car. In far from perfect conditions a person can kill many more with a gun.

        20 people get gunned down and you still think you need to thump your chest about gun rights.

        And enough with the strawman arguments (one of which I just responded to). Your posts are littered with them and it only makes you sound unbalanced.

        1. The only ones chest thumping are those saying this is a call for gun restrictions because of a nut job.

          Guns are more dangerous? In what way? Cars kill many times more people in the US a year. What about home pools? You are more likely to have an accidental death if your house has a pool than if it has a gun.

          Should we live in an Orwellian hell, restricting actions and objects that have a potential to cause harm?

          People throw rational out the window when their emotions about ‘scary guns’ get in the way.

      2. “Also, I don’t like XYZ. I don’t think anyone should own XYZ, as no one needs it. So lets get rid of XYZ less someone missuse it and it leads to death or injury.”

        It amazes me how the conservatives in the US makes this personal freedom argument when it comes to owning firearms but take polar opposite when it comes to drug policy, access to family planning and birth control options.

      3. Let me come over to your house and arbitarily decide what you do and do not ‘need’.

        Taking away gun rights is not “arbitrary”. It’s much harder to kill a politician in public with a pool than with a gun. Same with cars; most people don’t use them as a murder weapon, at least voluntarily. Do you see what Æ’low means now? Guns are used to kill people by other people. That’s very bad. And it’s true, what would a regular civilian need a gun for? Yeah, yeah, 2nd Amendment, yaddah yaddah. If it’s self defense that you’re looking for, there are other ways of doing that, like non-lethal weapons, martial arts, etc.

        1. So we should remove objects that make it easier to kill people?

          Who decides where that distinction lies?

          Stop trying to bubblewrap the world. Guns aren’t the cause of violence and as the UK has shown, getting rid of them doesn’t stop violence.

          1. If you use the word ‘prevent’ you are right, if you use the expression “dramatically reduce the incidence of”, you are incorrect.

            Gun Deaths – International Comparisons

            Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
            Homicide Suicide Other (inc Accident)

            USA (2001) 3.98 5.92 0.36
            Italy (1997) 0.81 1.1 0.07
            Switzerland (1998) 0.50 5.8 0.10
            Canada (2002) 0.4 2.0 0.04
            Finland (2003) 0.35 4.45 0.10
            Australia (2001) 0.24 1.34 0.10
            France (2001) 0.21 3.4 0.49
            England/Wales (2002) 0.15 0.2 0.03
            Scotland (2002) 0.06 0.2 0.02
            Japan (2002) 0.02 0.04 0

            Data taken from Cukier and Sidel (2006)

            That said, I still strongly believe this is a HEALTH CARE issue. The guy was medically insane. If he’d been on lithium (or whatever he needed), there would be more people alive today and this guy would be flipping burgers and paying taxes instead of shooting at children.

          2. Again, while GUN crimes are down, VIOLENT crimes are up. God help you if you’re the victim. It also ignores all the crimes PREVENTED or ENDED because of armed victims.

            I too agree it is largely a health care issue. If we aren’t shuffling the mentally ill into asylums, we are ignoring them.

          3. Okay, look, I’m not saying we need to totally remove guns, but like everyone above has said, the system is flawed. It’s too easy for mentally troubled people to buy potentially lethal weapons. I think that’s the general consensus. So by putting more regulations around guns, ammunition, and the like, this tragedy could have been avoided. I don’t think that’s bubblewrapping.

          4. This isn’t a failure of gun laws – but of the system. If you were in the system for mental problems, you won’t be sold a gun. The problem is the way we diagnose, report, and treat people isn’t consistent. The VA killer had red flags too, and yet he wasn’t in they system either.

            FWIW, if you had a domestic violence conviction you are most likely not going to be sold a gun with out a Sheriff sign off. If you have a felony conviction, you won’t be sold one.

            Criminals will steal them, crazies will find a way or just build a bomb. You can’t keep everyone safe all of the time.

      4. Think about it the other way round – suppose we had a society that to date that had no guns, then one day someone proposes to sell handguns as tools to simplify the task of killing other people – would that seem sensible? or even try introducing a new kind of handgun today – suppose we made a tazer that deliberately electrocutes the victim to death 100% of the time, or a laser designed to incapacitate by instantaneously boiling and bursting the eyeballs of the victims. All feasible to construct. maybe I should have those tools for my defense? Who are you to say otherwise?

        Guns in the USA are an accident of history – they should be banned but they are too widespread to be outlawed – nevertheless, a way to filter out nut jobs from owning handguns could be useful. Guns make it too easy to act on an impulse, and to have devastating consequences.

        Suppose you had to wait a month between ordering a gun and actually getting the firearm? Suppose you had to get five confidential letters of reference from people in your community sent to the police to place the order for a firearm, any letter could blackball a would-be gun owner, and those who write the reference have civil liability if you then go on a killing spree?

        A bit of organisational red tape would probably have prevented someone like Jared who’s clearly disturbed and delusional from getting a handgun in the first place, without completely outlawing the weapons. The deranged have difficulty planning far into the future, so an application procedure that requires the ability to plan carefully would filter out the nut jobs.

  50. In hindsight, how on the money was the John Stewart Rally to Restore Sanity?

    The power of public influence is a WMD that must be wielded with an almost god-fearing respect for its might.

    1. I do realize that it should be said that you shouldn’t make this out to be politically motivated when it was clearly the actions of someone with a serious psychiatric disorder.

      But I think a great public service could be had here if this event is the turning point that ends the shouting that drowns out intelligent discourse and reason in politics today.

      So if there is hypocrisy in that comment, I think its excusable.

  51. When are the am radio talk shows, the “christian” subversives and snake oil sales frauds going to start taking responsibility for feeding all the nonsense to these crazy bastards that results in things like this. Dead and wounded in a crowd. A 9 year old little baby girl! Christ! Your greed and that of your advertisers has a price far too high.

  52. There really isn’t much value in trying to discover meaning in the writings of a lunatic.

  53. So I can be forgiven for targeted assassination, at least on some level, by making a few crazy internet videos? So a whole movement that uses dangerous and violent language to discuss their political opponents is off the hook because the guy sounds a little bit nutjob while explaining his very political sounding motivations for shooting government officials?

    How convenient. Even better to include some innocent victims while offing a Federal judge and a member of Congress… that’s like underlining the assertion that you’re just plain loony.

    But as we all can see from the way the war criminal U.S. government treats humans all over the world, children are acceptable collateral damage in war. If the right/left wing have set the terms of the debate, and their chickens come home to roost, then the terms of the debate have set the chickens roosting on the right/left wing. Boo-ya!

  54. Good God, this is just tragic. This guy is schizophrenic; there’s nothing to be gained by demonizing him or wondering where his “political influences” came from.

    Just sad all around.

  55. And Mister44 and your ilk. Again, the victim herself stated that she felt there was a threat insinuated by the now infamous target map. SHE, not YOU, is the the person who has the determining say in the correlation between the map and the violence.

    Finally, I know that this flies in the face of BoingBoing’s truly inclusive comment policies but it would be kinda cool if usernames had a “member since” date so we would have an idea of those potentially came on board to troll…..possible trolling.

  56. I don’t care if this kid was a lunatic. The tea party is still a huge hate machine that still talks about murdering elected officials and other liberal speakers. Please don’t let any of that get lost in the he said she said bull crap.

  57. Somebody had a psychotic break in one of my classes a few years back… These transcripts sound a heck of a lot like how that guy was talking that day.

  58. Now be sure to remember, if you decide to take out someone whose politics you hate, to leave confusing and misleading videos and writings, just so people will be confused as to why you did it and not blame the people who really pointed you. And also you can then claim to be crazy and, if you are caught, get a lesser sentence. What you post doesn’t even have to be very old. A month is enough.

    Then everyone will ignore your obvious political motives and ignore your otherwise normal behavior and make excuses for you and not blame those who encouraged your anger.

    Smart. Smart.

  59. One thing we CAN say about this guy is that he was deranged and in need of medical attention. If the U.S. had universal health care, he might have had the medical attention he needed and lives would not have been lost. That’s the thing about making health care a right and not an option for those who can afford it – it impacts everyone’s lives, rich, poor, weak or strong. It never ceases to amaze me how short-sighted people are about this issue.

  60. If Sarah Palin created an irresponsible infographic, then a lunatic shot a member of Congress.

    Sarah Palin created an irresponsible infographic.

    Therefore a lunatic shot a member of Congress.

    Can you handle the QED of the new currency, dear Boing Boing reader?

  61. After looking at his youtube posts, I believe is he had an undiagnosed mental illness. My guess? Schizophrenia or schizo-affective disorder. A diagnosis and the right medication from a good psychiatrist could have prevented this.

    I’m also guessing someone pushed him into doing this. I hope the police find the other person of interest soon. I would love to hear that person’s motivations..

    1. Anyone this crazy would have been locked up long ago. It’s easier for a sane person to pretend to be crazy than for a crazy person to pretend to be sane.

  62. For the past ten years, I’ve been working as a pharmacist in the medical unit of a jail in a large city. Of course it’s not possible to make a psychiatric diagnosis on the basis of youtube videos. That said, I’ve seen lots of writings/rantings by psychiatrically fragile individuals, and this guy looks like a pretty typical example of psychosis.

    But I wouldn’t say politics played no role. If he was weird on youtube, he was weird in RL – but did he receive treatment? Did he not receive treatment because he didn’t have health insurance? In my experience, psychotic people often commit crimes because their illness has not been adequately addressed.

    The role of America’s fractured health care system in the genesis of this tragedy has not yet been ascertained.

  63. bzishi’s question is valid: “Why crosshairs?” Dots would have been as effective in describing the areas representatives are from, but would not have sent the same message as targets.

    Did Palin (or her people) intend them to be taken literally? That’s a question for them alone to answer. Did Loughner ever even SEE them? That question remains to be answered, doesn’t it? Many of us, myself included, saw the ad for the first time only yesterday; it would be helpful to keep some perspective.

    Meanwhile, regarding flag etiquette, “When a flag is so worn it is no longer fit to serve as a symbol of our country (Loughner’s certainly was), it should be destroyed by burning in a dignified manner.” Just sayin’.

  64. So I’m heading down to my local homeless encampment today. I’ve made up a bunch of signs that say, “Satan lives at 2438 Channing.”

    So when my jerkwad neighbor’s house burns down next month, I’ll be able to say, “Looks like the work of a schizophrenic. Tragic, but what are you gonna do?”

  65. Change your gun laws America. Not only are you now breeding psychopaths, but you’re giving them means for their ends. It’s time to modernize and forget about the right to carry muskets to protect yourselves from the British.

  66. If media personalities keep using aggressive rhetoric, and talking about targets, that’s going to have an effect.

    That’s precisely the point. There isn’t some Clone Army of teabaggers ready to march on Washington.

    What’s going on (and I suspect will only get worse) is that decades of this hateful rhetoric combined with a deliberate effort on the part of conservatives to undercut education and healthcare (particularly for the mentally ill!) means that there is quite a number of these insane, “lone wolf” whackjobs out there just waiting for the right code words to push them over a cliff.

    It’s not an organized or coordinated effort, that’s the point. Thus there will be no “direct linkage”. The idea that somebody would show up wearing a Sarah Palin t-shirt and with tea bags stapled all over his body is infantile.

    If you’ve paid any attention to conservative (or more accurately, neo-conservative) strategy in the past few decades its been all about destabilizing nations, because in destabilized, chaotic markets, unscrupulous business can thrive. It doesn’t matter if we’re talking the Soviet Union or the Middle East or right here in America. The only thing they think government is good for is an iron-fisted police state that will keep the subjugated population in check. Our occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan, our support of corrupt dictators in Africa and Latin America, and our own Homeland Security branch are all manifestations of this same strategy.

    1. Well said.

      What are the political substrates required to leverage maximum profit from any target market/regional territory? A total relaxing of ANY rules or legislation that gets in the way of delivering maximum return on minimum investment.

      The short-sightedness of quarterly reporting and the insularity to only be concerned with what you have control of right now, with utter disregard for the effects your actions take on others NOT in your fold (aka, non-customers, -shareholders, -colleagues, -community, -family) is what drives global capitalism. Naomi Klein’s “Shock Doctrine” covers this territory well, but’s it’s those emotional “AHA!” moments when you see the results of the ideology, in your face. I mentioned blind spots about gun culture in an earlier comment. There is an even bigger blind spot in the OECD world about “Us and Them” that really causes the long-term problem. Continuously says “Will fix it later” without starting any venture with the question “Why are we doing this?”, and subsequently being OK with looking at yourself in the mirror about the honest answer to that question, is the real problem with our global culture right now.

      Some will say that I’m extremely naïve, politically as well as in my understanding of human nature. Pragmatism and self-preservation demand that we deal with the realities we are faced with. And so, we end up with the real nature of conservatism, neo- and otherwise. “Change is bad, unless I immediately benefit from it.” That’s the mantra right there.

      I saw a quote the other day, maybe on BoingBoing: “Stupid people who do something that embarrasses them always say ‘I’m just doing my duty.’ “

  67. food for thought…. change. Lets say polarised debate are two sides of a coin..i know sounds like the rantings of the alleged suspect… a new currency… debate ??? who is a terrorist what is the logic in this ??? what is a flag what is its meaning what can it denote ???

    the poor man is clearly confused but your arguments are the same old entrenched blame counter blame…Maybe just maybe this in part sent him over the edge ???

  68. So we have a highly probable schizophrenic steeped in what looks like ‘sovereign citizen’ rhetoric.

    This clearly, then, falls under the category of Infowars style conspiracy wackadoo.

  69. In my humble opinion, it is not for us to evaluate or attempt to determine the mental status of this young man. We can, of course, try to make educated guesses based on his posts, videos and such, but without actually sitting down face-to-face with him we cannot accurately come to any conclusions. As a mental health professional, I am personally reluctant to comment on his mental status. Yes, his posts and videos look like bizarre rants, but we cannot conclude with any real validity that he is in fact insane.

  70. “Mister 44” you seem unable to see past your rigid beliefs. When BB points out the facts of Palin’s target map you don’t acknowledge the fact of its existence. BB did not say this map “caused” this man to shoot anyone. Although there may be an association, as maps with gun-sight targets and expressed calls to action may indeed incite such action. Though Palin was probably speaking symbolically – but do remember she is a hunter and has killed.

    Nevertheless you quickly jumped to “he is insane” and there is no link between the two, yet never acknowledging the Palin map and that it did carry clear symbols we know to represent violence.

    Then you go on to compare guns to cars. I’d like to see someone drive/ride there 44 to work. You can justify anything apparently with your comparisons. But a gun has a single purpose. To kill. Period. To kill. So people who have guns must feel they have the need or will need to have the need ….to KILL. I am not against guns or the right to protect oneself. I do not have a gun because I don’t have the need to kill. If ever I am in a circumstance where my life is threatened I will have to deal with that then however I choose to. But having a gun certainly increasing the possibility of someone/thing getting shot. It’s all fear based. I do my best not to live fear based.

    It would have been refreshing if you had been able to be clear enough & stay specific to the facts, instead of defending and spinning everything to again defend your narrow ideas & agenda.

    It seems you just like Ms. Palin or the “right wing” and don’t like it when they get called on the carpet, so to speak. I don’t think it serves anyone to be all “right” or all “left/liberal” but rather open minded to what’s best for all, and choose that per issue, per person, per moment, rather then per “side”

    About the health care reform – it happens to protect children the most – especially children with “pre-existing conditions”, disabled kids and kids up to age 26 (in college?), without this reform these kids are out in the cold – literally. And as you know, Health insurance companies avoid allowing these kids in. Let the Republican’s give up their health care 1st.

    The Republican’s are acting strictly from political motivations without any real concern for health care.

    Just like Sarah’s target map they are exposing themselves for who they really are and caring for they fellow man isn’t it.

    1. re:””Mister 44″ you seem unable to see past your rigid beliefs.”

      And you seem to be allowing your political preferences get in the way of your ability to think.

      re: “When BB points out the facts of Palin’s target map you don’t acknowledge the fact of its existence”

      It exists (or did exist). Do you feel better? It still has nothing to do with this. I doubt the guy saw the damn thing, but even assuming he had, it means squat. The guy was insane. He could have watched the local news and put pieces together out of thin air that prompted him. Who knows.

      Movies, TV, Music, video games, and books are full of violence. Many of them with much more specific and explicit descriptions. It is just as illogical to blame a graphic for a nut jobs actions as it is to blame any other media for some nuts actions.

      re:”Though Palin was probably speaking symbolically – but do remember she is a hunter and has killed.”

      No – I am sure they were NOT speaking metaphorically, but want people to literally go out there and kill their political targets. o_0 (That was sarcasm, btw.)

      re: “Then you go on to compare guns to cars. I’d like to see someone drive/ride there 44 to work. ”

      Why? Because you can’t argue that cars do not present a more immediate danger than guns?

      re: “But a gun has a single purpose. To kill. Period. To kill. So people who have guns must feel they have the need or will need to have the need ….to KILL”

      OH – so lets illogically condemn something for its ‘original purpose’ and not for what it is ACTUALLY being used for. We should ban knives, swords, axes, and clubs because they were made for the purpose to kill.

      Never mind that a vast majority of guns are used to shoot paper and clay or that millions of owners have managed to hurt NO ONE – lets look at their ‘original purpose’.

      Nearly every major advancement in technology since civilization was created with military applications in mind, or further refined for the military. Are you ready to give up those conveniences as well because originally they would have contributed to warfare?

      re: “But having a gun certainly increasing the possibility of someone/thing getting shot. It’s all fear based. I do my best not to live fear based. ”

      And yet, ironically, you are. So you go to one friends house who has a gun – does that make you feel uncomfortable? What if you go to another friend who has a pool? Do you feel any more or less comfortable? Maybe you should be more worried about the pool owners, as he is more likely to have an accidental death than the gun owner. But logically we should get rid of guns, because… we… uh… need private pools. For pool parties.

      re: “It seems you just like Ms. Palin or the “right wing” and don’t like it when they get called on the carpet, so to speak. ”

      I like a little thing called ‘liberty’. I’m a Libertarian and have been so long before the tea party or the Gadsden flag made a come back. So that means I think we should all have the opportunity to own guns, and gays should be able to ‘marry’ be afforded the same opportunities and legal benefits as straight couples.

      re: “…”left/liberal” but rather open minded to what’s best for all, and choose that per issue, per person, per moment, rather then per “side””

      That there is the problem I have with the modern ‘left’. I share a lot of views with classic liberalism, but the ‘left’ acts like they are better than you and know what is best for you. They want to take care of you – there way, of course.

      Going off on the health care bill – the current one is crap for many reasons. Whether it is repealed or not won’t make up for the fact that the system is still fucked up either way. The #1 thing that would drive costs down is tort reform (talk to a practicing doctor about it). The other big thing needed is to separate the relationship of having insurance with having a job.

      There needs to be reform, but the bill passed did a piss poor job of it.

      1. “Movies, TV, Music, video games, and books are full of violence. Many of them with much more specific and explicit descriptions. It is just as illogical to blame a graphic for a nut jobs actions as it is to blame any other media for some nuts actions.”

        Forget the graphic, maybe focus on the insane rhetoric that has been cropping up since Obama won the White House. You seem unable to distinguish the difference between artists seeking to provoke a reaction and politicians or pundits seeking to score cheap political points using threats of violence and the threat of revolution.

        Take “Taxi Driver,” which is a great, but violent movie that may have motivated previous attacks. For an unstable individual to see and be influenced by this movie they’d have to learn about it and seek it out. Same with “Catcher in the Rye,” violent heavy metal, etc. These are all available but aren’t things you’ll see, read, or hear unless you go looking for them.

        Violent art isn’t front-page on the newspaper or dominating the discussion on political websites, and it’s not on CNN. The more violent and warped the artwork, the more it gets pushed to the fringe and the harder it is to find. And even if an unstable person uses these works of art as a justification for violence, it’s senseless to blame the author since their work may simply be misinterpreted. You at least have that correct – no matter how heinous a work of art is, basically any country with free-speech rights will have to defend it.

        But a politician, someone who aims to run the country, has no such defense. They have much more influence. They exist to influence people. They get front-page coverage, and they get all kinds of airtime. Angry pundits who say they want to destroy the government get TV shows on major networks. In fact, the more violent and provocative the rhetoric, the more likely the pundit/politician will get airtime. Sure, they might have the right to call for violence or slander their opponents as treasonous ‘socialists’ or whatever, but they also have to be held responsible for their words.

        So while no one graphic, no single person, no single political party can be blamed for this attack, people who carelessly throw around talk of overthrowing the government to protect America, and who work to sabotage a social safety net that might have averted this tragedy, and who work to ensure that even obviously disturbed people can carry guns at the supermarket DO share a measure of responsibility for it. At least own up to it.

        You can defend your right to carry guns, invoke free speech rights to call for violence and advocate for slashing social services so that you can lower taxes even more… but you can’t do all that AND claim that this attack was just the work of a random nutjob. He’s a product of his environment.

  71. Something tells me the bin-bag sarong is not a look that will catch on this summer.

    However… flame retardant fabrics might be a really good idea for that flag :-/

  72. It’s weird to me that this is being so politicized when this guy is obviously has some pretty severe mental illness. Much as I’d love to blame Sarah Palin for this, it just doesn’t add up. I find it almost comforting that he was apparently just a crazy person, as opposed to a member of some kind of organized political group.

  73. re: “Forget the graphic [media]”

    Why? There has been all this focus on the fact they used cross hairs on a list of ‘targets’. Why do we focus on this metaphor, but ignore the more explicit violence that we experience every day. No one in their right mind thinks that the “take back the 20” campaign suggests they want/you should kill someone, just as no one in their right mind watches “V for Vendetta” and then shoots up a school board.

    re:”maybe focus on the insane rhetoric that has been cropping up since Obama won the White House.”

    Same as it ever was, just a different color. If you do a search above you will see links to people holding signs that literally say “kill Bush”. I don’t see the current opposition any worse than the ones before them. And I haven’t seen any link to where this guy was part of any organization, or subscribed to their ‘rhetoric’.

    re: ” You seem unable to distinguish the difference between artists seeking to provoke a reaction and politicians or pundits seeking to score cheap political points using threats of violence and the threat of revolution. ”

    Ok – first off – lets be honest. For every Taxi Driver, Reservoir Dogs, or Full Metal Jacket, there are 10 films that are just gratuitous violence with little to no artistic merit. Most video games are that way, and while there is a movement to ban/limit these games, they are not turning us into psychopaths.

    Looking at the overall lack of violence, I guess I have to question just how much violence and revolution the pundits are pushing, or how much the supporters are taking literally.

    re:”These are all available but aren’t things you’ll see, read, or hear unless you go looking for them. ”

    Do what? Maybe I am misunderstanding you. You are saying that people the only way for people to be affected by this stuff is if they actively seek it out? How do you figure that? Movies, music, and ads for video games you will see channel surfing. Sure you can avoid it, but THAT would take a conscience effort.

    re:”The more violent and warped the artwork, the more it gets pushed to the fringe and the harder it is to find.”

    Are you saying the Oscar nominated Taxi Driver or best selling Grand Theft Auto are on the fringe and harder to find, or are you referring to something else?

    re: “And even if an unstable person uses these works of art as a justification for violence, it’s senseless to blame the author since their work may simply be misinterpreted.”

    Completely agree here.

    re:”But a politician, someone who aims to run the country, has no such defense. They have much more influence. They exist to influence people. They get front-page coverage, and they get all kinds of airtime”

    Maybe I live in Bizzaro world, where everything is opposite. I would argue games and movies etc have much more influence. A majority of people don’t even follow politics very closely. I am confident most people can’t even name their senators and representatives. But I assure you they can tell you a list of games/movies/music they have experienced in the past month. They get featured all the time – they have a half dozen shows that are all about entertainment news.

    I haven’t found a lot of violent political speech – but then again I’m not looking for it or glued to MSNBC. The name calling, like ‘socialists’ is just that. Bush was called a Fascist among a 1/2 dozen other things.

    re: “and who work to ensure that even obviously disturbed people can carry guns at the supermarket DO share a measure of responsibility for it.”

    I am pretty well kept up on 2nd Amendment related laws, and I am unaware of anyone wanting to remove measures that prevent the mentally ill from buying guns. I found the opposite – from 2008:
    “…George W. Bush’s signing of a measure in January intended to prevent people with serious mental illness from buying guns.

    The legislation (HR 2640), sponsored by Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), authorizes up to $1.3 billion in state grants to improve the tracking and reporting of individuals who are legally barred from gun purchases, including those involuntarily confined to a psychiatric hospital.”

    The problem is that the system still isn’t implemented well, or consistently across all states. Unlike being a felon, or convicted of domestic violence which goes into a nation wide data base using a well establish system, there isn’t something like that for the mentally ill that works the same way everywhere.

    re: “.. but you can’t do all that AND claim that this attack was just the work of a random nutjob. He’s a product of his environment. ”

    Man – you can’t have it both ways. You can’t say popular culture and media doesn’t breed nut jobs, but claim political pundits can. For every person obsessed with politics and political ideology, you will find someone watching Taxi Driver 100x, or playing WoW or Grand Theft Auto 18hrs a day, or being obsessed with vampires, etc etc etc.

    Perhaps all of these things INFLUENCE their direction to a degree – but their initial propensity to violence or to be crazy has nothing to do with their environment. And lets just say for a moment that it is – that media or politics drove them to action – why does there need to be any change when the other of millions of people exposed to the same thing did nothing?

    1. If you can’t understand the difference between the content of a film or video game and the content of the speeches and website of someone who’s being discussed as a possible presidential candidate, I’m concerned for your reality orientation.

      Only the mentally ill believe that GTA IV is real — because it’s a game. Masses of Americans take the words of hate-mongering pundits and politicians as fact because they are presented on the nightly news as news items. Rupert Murdoch is re-enacting the radio broadcast of War of the Worlds, only this time with politicians instead of actors.

      Your comments are a string of shoddy false equivalencies. We can all see you behind the curtain.

      1. If this guy was part of a militia (remember those?), or one to join the tea party or what ever, and listened speeches and read essays and THEN went out and did something in the name of the cause – you would totally have a point.

        But thus far there isn’t any evidence he listened to any rhetoric or followed any cause except the one in his head. And even if he says, “I killed the congresswoman for Sarah Palin” you still can’t blame her or pundits because he is bat shit crazy. He could have as easily said he did it for his dog.

        Lets not forget that a lot of the hub bub was over a web graphic with cross hairs. That is what started my whole involvement here. My contention was that was irrelevant and as ridiculous as using blaming other media for violence.

        Maybe you can point me to ‘mainstream’ political events where violence is encouraged – and not in a metaphorical way. For example, if you watch Hitler rant about Jews and then went out and committed violence, then you could say Hitler’s speeches influenced their actions.

        But thus far I haven’t seen massive waves of violence brought on by Palin or anyone else. Feel free to point me to examples, but I am unaware of violence as a result of political rhetoric on either side.

  74. Until there’s a clear confession I’d have loved to see him referred to as “J.L.L., of Arizona”.

    Except on Fox News, where he’d be listed as “J.L.L. (D-AZ)”

  75. Ya know what’s more shameful than those who are “politicizing this tragedy”?

    Those disingenuous and self-righteous pricks who are indulging in posturing as “the voice of reason” making bones about how we can’t prove a causal connection between this whackjob and the right wing rhetoric in which his actions were in perfect alignment.

    Put it this way, anyone wonder why The Onion has not taken the Palin / Beck / Angle rhetoric to its logical conclusion? You know, show a political rally with effigies of Obama and democrat senators and representatives hanging from a rope or in front of a mock firing squad?

    Because the right wing rhetoric is already as close to the edge of the law as it can get. You literally could not take a comment like Sharon Angle’s “second amendment remedies” or Palin’s “don’t retreat, reload” or the takebackthe20 crosshairs map any further without getting a knock on your door from the secret service.

    We’re all mostly gen Xers I assume. Remember the skit on MTV’s The State comedy show, where Doug is in class and says “You mean I can’t even say, in jest, ‘hey I think I’ll shoot the president’…”

    And then the secret service guys storm the class room and haul him off?

    The conservatives are right up against that line. The mainstream conservatives are too smart to cross it, which is why you won’t get that “direct causal link” that people are pretending to be so concerned about.

    But seriously, turn on your AM talk radio and listen to the callers. You will occassionally hear somebody cross that line and the DJ will either say nothing or kind of say “now now let’s not say anything that will get us in trouble”. And in many parts of the country conservatives talk about this shit very openly among themselves.

    That’s why the conservatives going on about how this guy does not represent the tea party are full of shit and they are insulting everyone’s intelligence. Like they think their veiled, coded marching orders to the nutjobs in the audience are too darn clever for liberals to figure out, and they pretend to be just shocked and appalled when a tragedy like this occurs. Nobody’s buying it.

  76. Another break in the regularly scheduled OMG HOW DARE YOU SULLY (insert your favored faction here)’s NAME IN THIS!

    Watching media coverage this morning, I become more disturbed by the simple fact that there were multiple people and a school who saw something tragic brewing and did nothing beyond lip service.
    The school expelled him until he had a mental health exam.
    Another student referred to him as one of those people you see on TV after something tragic.
    Another person said it was “funny” how he behaved in high school.
    Multiple worrisome points in a story, and they did nothing.
    One wonders if they could have done anything.

    If you can pull yourselves away from the debate of is Glen Becks tie a secret message insulting liberals, here is the serious thing that both sides need to focus on.
    We have no system in place to stop these things until there is a body count.
    We have people flipping out over a robotic horse, powdered sugar on a counter, people who look “Muslim” and calling hot lines to make themselves feel better.
    Who are we supposed to call when we worry that someone is slipping into madness?

    Can we all stop pretending that Terrorism is the biggest problem facing us? Rhetoric and chest thumping how one side is better than the other makes for fun soundbites, but has anyone noticed they are doing nothing other than posturing?

    We have a large population of mentally ill people in this country, they don’t vote so no one cared when we turned our backs on them, turned out on the streets because they cost to much to help. How can we be this amazing country when we have people living in Third World conditions? When we don’t take care of those unable to help themselves? When we waste our breath debating if they were target sights or surveyors marks?

    We have “programs” and we think we do enough by dropping some coins in a red kettle in December. The programs are woefully underfunded if they haven’t been cut to offer a tax break, and are run to create profits, not well people in a majority of cases.

    A 9 year old girl is dead, because more time is spent covering “important issues” than fixing our crumbling country. For all of the spotlight grabbing we are about to suffer through, as every media darling wants 15 minutes more, they will not create anything to actually help. If they pass anything it will be so bloated with pork and backroom deals handing money to their corporate friends that no real help will be given to those in need. And when the next tragedy happens, it will be the other sides fault.

    So resume pointing fingers and laying blame. We are all at fault, we have failed each other time and time again. We have lost our humanity and replaced it with political affiliation. Maybe this will be the tragic wake up call we need to stop being pundits, and start being human and caring for other humans. The cost of helping those in need is small compared to having to explain why the little girl is dead. That if someone along the line had somewhere to turn to get him the help he needed, she would still be alive.

    We now resume your regularly scheduled OMG HOW DARE YOU SULLY (insert your favored faction here)’s NAME IN THIS!

  77. When Ronald Reagan talked about “starving the beast” until it was small enough to be drowned in Grover Norquist’s bathtub, he was not talking about “big government” or deficit spending. No, that much was self evident by Reagan’s out of control deficit spending which came to a head with George W. Bush, his two wars and the formation of a new branch of government, the Department Of Homeland security. Republicans LOVE big government.

    The “beast” Reagan was referring to was the Great Society, the New Deal, the liberal paradigm of the “common good”, the government’s role in regulating the market so that people would not merely have the “right” to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but also the means to achieve them.

    30 years later we have an economy in shambles. Our education, healthcare and per capita income statistics are a joke. In short, we have *exactly* the kind of country now, that when a politician calls for violence against a political opponent, there are plenty of nutjobs out there who have “nothing to lose”, and would consider such a suicide mission a noble and worthwhile task. This is the same way muslim extremists recruit suicide bombers from a society of people without any hope.

    People need to wake the hell up. Conservative strategy for the past 30 years has been all about destabilizing national economies so that big businesses can thrive in an unmonitored and under regulated envorionment. The only thing they think the government is good for is an iron-fisted police state that will protect THEM from THEIR political enemies, and not vice versa.

  78. America’s attitude towards (obvious) mental illness is depressing.. Once again we completely lose it in the face of tragedy.

  79. Too all,
    What has happened is a tragedy of epic proportions. I am really not sure of Palin or anyone else having any responsibility in these actions, but we all bear a certain amount of responsibility in having ways to help people who are obviously sick. This young man is clearly stating premise that are flawed from the start in that they have no basis in reality. Not one of his associations was grounded in anything remotely stable. This is the true lesson, did he have friends or family; would any of us in their place have done more to help? We easily place blame, but can we face the facts that the reason Palin or Beck are able to say anything is that we as Americans have grown to love this fight? All our hands are dirty here. We love to hate the Representatives and bad mouth our own government daily, yet the strength to bring change is within our own grasp. For one moment- maybe we could stop our busy lives and listen to each other, become informed about all opinion, not just the AM talk radio or the MSNBC hype of the day. In his first video, this young killer placed himself in a trash bag as he lit the flag of our nation on fire. The best we can learn from a little nine year old whom wanted to be a leader and had that ripped away from her, is that none of us can be discarded so easily. Ignoring our weakest puts us all at risk, and responsibility starts at home, within our own lives and that of our families. I am an American and I am proud of our nation’s heritage. Yet our future is in danger and fighting among ourselves will surely never yield its redemption. These thoughts are directed as much to myself as anyone – we must change now or we face a continuance of such unacceptable losses.

  80. question: Has anyone heard what the story is with the parents?

    Not trying to throw blame at them, just curious. I mean, how could you not be? There’s got to be some useful insight there. Starting with, why did they not get him into therapy? They might have had a legit reason (cost, anyone?), and I want to hear it.

    Also, I have to point out, as some others have here, that we don’t know yet that this sick kid was not influenced by Right Wing rhetoric. I’m sure there are some more internet accounts yet to be dug up. Then there’s the question of what his family was like politically. And, probably most important of all, what kind of television/radio was he being exposed to.

    I think it’s fairly obvious that he was more of the “trying to impress Jodie Foster” type than trying to impress Sara Palin. But I’m just saying, whatever his motives are, and we may never know them, Palin/tea-bag propaganda would not have helped him clarify his thinking.

    One more thing: no matter if you think Palin shares some of the blame or not, you need to read this obamalondon post.

  81. Sarah Palin is not a jerk for doing what other pols have done.

    Various headlines and stories saying he’s this and that, left wing and a white supremist.

    Who cares? He’s a psycho who needs to be hanged!

    1. He’s a psycho who needs to be hanged!

      So you support executing the mentally ill. Do you extend that to other “undesirables”?

  82. p.s. pretty sure that’s not actually him in the pic.

    Just saying those aren’t merely surveyors symbols. The rhetoric is deep and thick, he liked conspiracies, odds are he was listening to somebody.

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