Comments on: Why women shouldn't be "burdened" with the vote: 1915 http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Tue, 21 May 2013 13:58:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Ito Kagehisa http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-993792 Ito Kagehisa Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-993792 I don't recall that they were. But you know everything that's bad has to be favored by socialists, wobblies and Mormons! We haven't really come all that far, I guess. I don’t recall that they were.

But you know everything that’s bad has to be favored by socialists, wobblies and Mormons!

We haven’t really come all that far, I guess.

]]> By: arborman http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-994053 arborman Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-994053 Taxes and divorce are way up since suffrage. Of course, so is life expectancy, average income, literacy, consumption of frito-lays. Correlation is not causation. Obviously. Though I suspect there is a little bit of a link (except for the fritos) Taxes and divorce are way up since suffrage. Of course, so is life expectancy, average income, literacy, consumption of frito-lays.

Correlation is not causation. Obviously. Though I suspect there is a little bit of a link (except for the fritos)

]]> By: Ruadhan http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-994055 Ruadhan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-994055 Information is good. Divorce rates: http://divorce.lovetoknow.com/Historical_Divorce_Rate_Statistics http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005044.html http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html#anchor1223885 While the divorce rate did go up after it got easier to get a divorce (in the 70s), it's currently down from that peak. Tax rates: http://www.visualizingeconomics.com/2007/11/03/nytimes-historical-tax-rates-by-income-group/ http://www.suite101.com/content/us-tax-system-history-in-the-20th-century-a83122 Taxes across the board have been getting lower since the 1960s. Income tax was pretty new in 1915, however, and rates were a lot lower (the highest tax bracket was 7%). So: are taxes and divorce higher than a century ago? Yes. Than a decade ago? No. Information is good.

Divorce rates:

http://divorce.lovetoknow.com/Historical_Divorce_Rate_Statistics
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005044.html
http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html#anchor1223885

While the divorce rate did go up after it got easier to get a divorce (in the 70s), it’s currently down from that peak.

Tax rates:

http://www.visualizingeconomics.com/2007/11/03/nytimes-historical-tax-rates-by-income-group/
http://www.suite101.com/content/us-tax-system-history-in-the-20th-century-a83122

Taxes across the board have been getting lower since the 1960s. Income tax was pretty new in 1915, however, and rates were a lot lower (the highest tax bracket was 7%).

So: are taxes and divorce higher than a century ago? Yes. Than a decade ago? No.

]]> By: MadRat http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-994315 MadRat Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-994315 1910 women don't get to vote. 2010 women don't bother to vote. 1910 women don’t get to vote.
2010 women don’t bother to vote.

]]> By: semiotix http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-993806 semiotix Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-993806 Yeah, everyone beat me to the punch while I was wrestling with the login. The Mormons were the boogeyman <i>par excellence</i> of late 19th century American politics. Scary, weird, heterodox, true-believers lurking on the fringes of our nation, scheming to infect our precious bodily fluids by gaining statehood, etc. etc. So you want your mother to have the vote, huh? What are you, some kinda socialist negro Mormon potato-eating spaghetti-bending atheist Jew anarchist? Yeah, everyone beat me to the punch while I was wrestling with the login. The Mormons were the boogeyman par excellence of late 19th century American politics. Scary, weird, heterodox, true-believers lurking on the fringes of our nation, scheming to infect our precious bodily fluids by gaining statehood, etc. etc.

So you want your mother to have the vote, huh? What are you, some kinda socialist negro Mormon potato-eating spaghetti-bending atheist Jew anarchist?

]]> By: Neon Tooth http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-993811 Neon Tooth Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-993811 Looks like a pretty ugly 10 story office building with a Bank of America and Morton's of Chicago in the bottom..... There's Dunkin' Donuts a building or two up the street tho'... Looks like a pretty ugly 10 story office building with a Bank of America and Morton’s of Chicago in the bottom…..

There’s Dunkin’ Donuts a building or two up the street tho’…

]]> By: osmo http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-993815 osmo Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-993815 What the Mormons are lumped in with us? What the Mormons are lumped in with us?

]]> By: Elistar http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-993816 Elistar Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-993816 Since the ad said that "women's suffrage is a women's issue," I was interested to see who the president and secretary were: John Balsh and Charles P. Strong ...then I noticed it was <i>Mrs.</i> John Balsh and <i>Mrs.</i> Charles P. Strong. Sigh. Since the ad said that “women’s suffrage is a women’s issue,” I was interested to see who the president and secretary were:

John Balsh and Charles P. Strong

…then I noticed it was Mrs. John Balsh and Mrs. Charles P. Strong. Sigh.

]]> By: Ito Kagehisa http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-993829 Ito Kagehisa Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-993829 <blockquote>What are you, some kinda socialist negro Mormon potato-eating spaghetti-bending atheist Jew anarchist?</blockquote> Late, maybe, but I think you win anyway, semiotix!

What are you, some kinda socialist negro Mormon potato-eating spaghetti-bending atheist Jew anarchist?

Late, maybe, but I think you win anyway, semiotix!

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-994087 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-994087 Socialists and Wobblies and MORMONS, oh my! Socialists and Wobblies and MORMONS, oh my!

]]> By: PaulR http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-994094 PaulR Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-994094 I can't believe no one has posted links to these videos: Ending Women's Suffrage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uPcthZL2RE and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i1mLF3uMWw and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu1zy2MrsFM and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lysWbzQyiWw and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-3axWYkUfk and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4iTZrbxdeI and even more out there... I can’t believe no one has posted links to these videos:

Ending Women’s Suffrage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uPcthZL2RE
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i1mLF3uMWw
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu1zy2MrsFM
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lysWbzQyiWw
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-3axWYkUfk
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4iTZrbxdeI
and even more out there…

]]> By: merreborn http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-994095 merreborn Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-994095 It's not quite as fun as walking by, but you can get a pretty good idea of what's there using the power of the interwebs: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=685+boylston+street+boston It’s not quite as fun as walking by, but you can get a pretty good idea of what’s there using the power of the interwebs: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=685+boylston+street+boston

]]> By: ophite http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-994359 ophite Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-994359 Mormons weren't always like they are today. In the 1820s to the early 20th century, they were comparatively liberal. This is unsurprising, given that the primary mission of the Mormon church was to spiritualize the American ethic of technological and social progress. (Take a look at the Journal of Discourses, Volume 13, pg. 270-272, for a weird example of this.) Their record on racial equality was awful at the beginning of the 20th century. However, because of their focus on social progress, were consistently ahead of the curve on issues such as abolitionism, women's education, and suffrage. One of the most prominent suffragists of the 1800s and the early 20th century was also the head of the Women's Relief Society: a position which could only be occupied by an entirely orthodox Mormon. Suffragism wasn't an idiosyncratic view held by heterodox Mormons. It was the official position of the Mormon church. It's only since the LDS church decided to join the mainstream -- probably during the David McKay presidency -- that the Church has become a wholly-owned subsidiary of the conservative movement. You still see, in areas with strong Mormon traditions, people who are both devout Mormons and principled progressives. That's the tradition that Harry Reid (whatever weak-sauce he may be as a politician) comes out of. It's the tradition that the LDS church's active support of anti-discrimination laws in Utah comes out of, even amidst their inexcusable backing of Prop 8. I don't mean by this to diminish the polygamy and violence that surrounded the church at its beginnings: it was there, and it was precipitated by the same people that saw the injustices of the 1800s and wanted to fix them. You'll find that amongst all utopians. But even amidst all that, there's always been something admirable in the idealism hidden in the LDS church. Maybe it'll be back someday. Maybe it won't. Mormons weren’t always like they are today.

In the 1820s to the early 20th century, they were comparatively liberal. This is unsurprising, given that the primary mission of the Mormon church was to spiritualize the American ethic of technological and social progress. (Take a look at the Journal of Discourses, Volume 13, pg. 270-272, for a weird example of this.)

Their record on racial equality was awful at the beginning of the 20th century. However, because of their focus on social progress, were consistently ahead of the curve on issues such as abolitionism, women’s education, and suffrage. One of the most prominent suffragists of the 1800s and the early 20th century was also the head of the Women’s Relief Society: a position which could only be occupied by an entirely orthodox Mormon. Suffragism wasn’t an idiosyncratic view held by heterodox Mormons. It was the official position of the Mormon church.

It’s only since the LDS church decided to join the mainstream — probably during the David McKay presidency — that the Church has become a wholly-owned subsidiary of the conservative movement. You still see, in areas with strong Mormon traditions, people who are both devout Mormons and principled progressives. That’s the tradition that Harry Reid (whatever weak-sauce he may be as a politician) comes out of. It’s the tradition that the LDS church’s active support of anti-discrimination laws in Utah comes out of, even amidst their inexcusable backing of Prop 8.

I don’t mean by this to diminish the polygamy and violence that surrounded the church at its beginnings: it was there, and it was precipitated by the same people that saw the injustices of the 1800s and wanted to fix them. You’ll find that amongst all utopians. But even amidst all that, there’s always been something admirable in the idealism hidden in the LDS church.

Maybe it’ll be back someday. Maybe it won’t.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-994116 Antinous / Moderator Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-994116 <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_suffrage#Timeline_of_international_women.27s_suffrage">Timeline by country</a> 1984, Liechtenstein? WTF? Also, Afghanistan beat Switzerland by 8 years. Timeline by country

1984, Liechtenstein? WTF?

Also, Afghanistan beat Switzerland by 8 years.

]]> By: Brainspore http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-994121 Brainspore Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-994121 <blockquote>1984, Liechtenstein? WTF?</blockquote> I guess they were worried the electoral system couldn't handle the sudden influx of 27 new voters.

1984, Liechtenstein? WTF?

I guess they were worried the electoral system couldn’t handle the sudden influx of 27 new voters.

]]> By: mdh http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-993868 mdh Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-993868 citation please. Because you sir, are incorrect. citation please. Because you sir, are incorrect.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-994127 Antinous / Moderator Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-994127 It's right across the street from the back end of the BPL. And definitely ugly. How could they allow such a hideous building so close to Copley Square? It’s right across the street from the back end of the BPL. And definitely ugly. How could they allow such a hideous building so close to Copley Square?

]]> By: jwb http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-994135 jwb Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-994135 Interestingly this is exactly the language that the far-right party in Switzerland used in their propaganda against universal suffrage, which came to Switzerland only recently. One of their classic posters says something along the lines of "Keep me out of your game" http://redders.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/frauenstimmrecht1.jpg Interestingly this is exactly the language that the far-right party in Switzerland used in their propaganda against universal suffrage, which came to Switzerland only recently. One of their classic posters says something along the lines of “Keep me out of your game” http://redders.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/frauenstimmrecht1.jpg

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-993631 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-993631 The Wobblies and the Mormons in cahoots with one another? Truely a conspiracy theory for the ages! The Wobblies and the Mormons in cahoots with one another? Truely a conspiracy theory for the ages!

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-993637 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-993637 You'd think political rhetoric would have changed more over the past 100 years... You’d think political rhetoric would have changed more over the past 100 years…

]]> By: arikol http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-993640 arikol Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-993640 NICE... Do Xeni and Maggie know that voting "injures Women"? But... that's less than a hundred years ago... yikes! NICE…
Do Xeni and Maggie know that voting “injures Women”?

But… that’s less than a hundred years ago… yikes!

]]> By: seyo http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-993641 seyo Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-993641 Sounds like an anti-healthcare ad. Sounds like an anti-healthcare ad.

]]> By: Gutierrez http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-993656 Gutierrez Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-993656 I know. Mormons and their love of universal healthcare, right? But more seriously, this proves how little things have changed in polotics looking at how many of these sorts of arguments are still made today. I know. Mormons and their love of universal healthcare, right?

But more seriously, this proves how little things have changed in polotics looking at how many of these sorts of arguments are still made today.

]]> By: Brainspore http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-993658 Brainspore Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-993658 I had no idea that the Mormon church was involved in the Women's suffrage movement. Too bad their track record wasn't so shining for racial equality and gay rights. I had no idea that the Mormon church was involved in the Women’s suffrage movement. Too bad their track record wasn’t so shining for racial equality and gay rights.

]]> By: Ari B. http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-993659 Ari B. Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-993659 That street address on the bottom of the ad is near my office. I should walk out there one day and see what's there now... ...probably a Starbucks. That street address on the bottom of the ad is near my office. I should walk out there one day and see what’s there now…

…probably a Starbucks.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-993661 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-993661 I wouldn't describe the mormon religion as progressive on issues today -- which this ad seems to say it was in 1915 with its support for suffrage. Did LDS really support women's suffrage 100 years ago? Or was this ad just using Mormons as a scaring bogeyman totem? I wouldn’t describe the mormon religion as progressive on issues today — which this ad seems to say it was in 1915 with its support for suffrage. Did LDS really support women’s suffrage 100 years ago? Or was this ad just using Mormons as a scaring bogeyman totem?

]]> By: MrsBug http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-993677 MrsBug Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-993677 Ari B., it's probably a right-wing PAC headquarters. Ari B., it’s probably a right-wing PAC headquarters.

]]> By: Vic333 http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-994202 Vic333 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-994202 It is amazing how little political argumentation has changed. And, unfortunately, how it still manages to fool the suckers. It is amazing how little political argumentation has changed. And, unfortunately, how it still manages to fool the suckers.

]]> By: Sis B http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-993697 Sis B Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-993697 I hope it's a NOW office. I hope it’s a NOW office.

]]> By: daramcq http://boingboing.net/2011/01/13/why-women-shouldnt-b.html#comment-993699 daramcq Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-993699 Hiya, Quick comment - The IWW wasn't just an anarchist union, although its modus operandi was very influenced by anarchism. It was founded by a conference of anarchists, other socialists and fellow travellers. It did of course, support equality among the sexes and ethnicities. From Wiki: "The IWW was founded in Chicago in June 1905 at a convention of two hundred socialists, anarchists, and radical trade unionists from all over the United States (mainly the Western Federation of Miners) who were opposed to the policies of the American Federation of Labor (AFL)." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IWW#History_1905-1950 Hiya,

Quick comment – The IWW wasn’t just an anarchist union, although its modus operandi was very influenced by anarchism. It was founded by a conference of anarchists, other socialists and fellow travellers. It did of course, support equality among the sexes and ethnicities. From Wiki:

“The IWW was founded in Chicago in June 1905 at a convention of two hundred socialists, anarchists, and radical trade unionists from all over the United States (mainly the Western Federation of Miners) who were opposed to the policies of the American Federation of Labor (AFL).”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IWW#History_1905-1950

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