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	<title>Comments on: Thierry Guetta, aka Mr. Brainwash sued for copyright infringement over Run DMC&#160;image</title>
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	<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html</link>
	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: teapot</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1007616</link>
		<dc:creator>teapot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1007616</guid>
		<description>I usually come down on the side of &quot;the law is crazy, steal what you want and don&#039;t get caught&quot; but I&#039;d have to agree with the rightsholder nazis on this one. There is no recontexturalisation in this example of Guetta&#039;s work, which is vital requirement for any artwork that uses visual references to stand on its own.

In the case of Fairey&#039;s work (I don&#039;t care if he settled with the money-hungry fucks at AP - he just wanted to get on with life) the recontexturalisation is in the fact that, as metioned in the article, the original reference photograph was inconsequential to the message of his artwork. It was a picture of Clooney FFS! Obama just happened to be in the backdrop.

In the case of the above-mentioned Banksy use of the pulp fiction imagery, his use is clearly unproblematic as Banksy not only changed the most metaphorically charged item depicted - the handguns - into one of the most comical items he possible could. Furthermore, Banksy went back and updated the original piece at least once, showing that he clearly isn&#039;t super-precious about the imagery itself but merely using it as a vehicle to convey a message.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.google.com.au/images?q=pulp+fiction+banana&quot;&gt;Just look at this awesome link!&lt;/a&gt;

If Guetta wanted to play it safe he could&#039;ve gone for something which is hard to argue competes with the original work like this:
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9422/runoas.jpg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I usually come down on the side of &#8220;the law is crazy, steal what you want and don&#8217;t get caught&#8221; but I&#8217;d have to agree with the rightsholder nazis on this one. There is no recontexturalisation in this example of Guetta&#8217;s work, which is vital requirement for any artwork that uses visual references to stand on its own.</p>
<p>In the case of Fairey&#8217;s work (I don&#8217;t care if he settled with the money-hungry fucks at AP &#8211; he just wanted to get on with life) the recontexturalisation is in the fact that, as metioned in the article, the original reference photograph was inconsequential to the message of his artwork. It was a picture of Clooney FFS! Obama just happened to be in the backdrop.</p>
<p>In the case of the above-mentioned Banksy use of the pulp fiction imagery, his use is clearly unproblematic as Banksy not only changed the most metaphorically charged item depicted &#8211; the handguns &#8211; into one of the most comical items he possible could. Furthermore, Banksy went back and updated the original piece at least once, showing that he clearly isn&#8217;t super-precious about the imagery itself but merely using it as a vehicle to convey a message.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.google.com.au/images?q=pulp+fiction+banana">Just look at this awesome link!</a></p>
<p>If Guetta wanted to play it safe he could&#8217;ve gone for something which is hard to argue competes with the original work like this:<br />
<a href="http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9422/runoas.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9422/runoas.jpg</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1008385</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1008385</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Culturally, we tend to favor expression over reception. Male over female.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Apparently I know very abnormal women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Culturally, we tend to favor expression over reception. Male over female.</p></blockquote>
<p>Apparently I know very abnormal women.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1031938</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1031938</guid>
		<description>I would say that the fact that these &#039;collaborators&#039; have worked together and could be called &#039;friends&#039; Is extremely suspicious. &#039;When&#039; friedman is successful he will ultimately have set a precedent that will lead to at least 99% of MBW&#039;s work to become worthless and even &#039;ilegal&#039;. Banksy&#039;s ultimate joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would say that the fact that these &#8216;collaborators&#8217; have worked together and could be called &#8216;friends&#8217; Is extremely suspicious. &#8216;When&#8217; friedman is successful he will ultimately have set a precedent that will lead to at least 99% of MBW&#8217;s work to become worthless and even &#8216;ilegal&#8217;. Banksy&#8217;s ultimate joke.</p>
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		<title>By: Ambiguity</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1007109</link>
		<dc:creator>Ambiguity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1007109</guid>
		<description>Yea, but had he -- I don&#039;t know -- done something like put &quot;OBEY&quot; on &lt;i&gt;every single one&lt;/i&gt; of his images, they would have been transformed into insightful social commentary and freaking &lt;i&gt;High Art&lt;/i&gt;!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yea, but had he &#8212; I don&#8217;t know &#8212; done something like put &#8220;OBEY&#8221; on <i>every single one</i> of his images, they would have been transformed into insightful social commentary and freaking <i>High Art</i>!</p>
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		<title>By: double_tilly</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1007113</link>
		<dc:creator>double_tilly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1007113</guid>
		<description>I can party in Hicksville, North Dakota and spend about $30. I go to L.A. and do the same thing, it costs me $300. Same drinks and everything.

I think people are bored of painting and are now doing some performance that explores how the context machine works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can party in Hicksville, North Dakota and spend about $30. I go to L.A. and do the same thing, it costs me $300. Same drinks and everything.</p>
<p>I think people are bored of painting and are now doing some performance that explores how the context machine works.</p>
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		<title>By: benher</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1007627</link>
		<dc:creator>benher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1007627</guid>
		<description>That was my favorite moment too... In fact, it almost made me worry that the entire enterprise was a &#039;fake.&#039; (I have been abroad for more than a decade, so I certainly wouldn&#039;t know any better) 

Also, wow, artists sure sue a lot of artists in the US. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was my favorite moment too&#8230; In fact, it almost made me worry that the entire enterprise was a &#8216;fake.&#8217; (I have been abroad for more than a decade, so I certainly wouldn&#8217;t know any better) </p>
<p>Also, wow, artists sure sue a lot of artists in the US. </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ambiguity</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1007122</link>
		<dc:creator>Ambiguity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1007122</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Now in this case, I would say that Glen Friedman has a case due to the size, scope and uncreative use (not fair-use) of the images everywhere. But the past picture where there&#039;s that older couple on a Sepia-ish tone with Jam Master Jay removed? That image in and of itself is the only piece that could have a fair-use argument.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m no expert, but to my Philistine eye I&#039;d have to agree that image is the only one that seems even mildly &quot;transformative.&quot;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Now in this case, I would say that Glen Friedman has a case due to the size, scope and uncreative use (not fair-use) of the images everywhere. But the past picture where there&#8217;s that older couple on a Sepia-ish tone with Jam Master Jay removed? That image in and of itself is the only piece that could have a fair-use argument.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m no expert, but to my Philistine eye I&#8217;d have to agree that image is the only one that seems even mildly &#8220;transformative.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: dbrown</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1007124</link>
		<dc:creator>dbrown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1007124</guid>
		<description>The most relevant precedent is Rogers vs. Koons, which Jeff Koons lost. (He took an artist&#039;s published photo of a bunch of puppies and made a sculpture based on it. A 3D copy.)

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_v._Koons

If the Fairey/AP case made it to court, the Koons decision is probably what would have guided the trail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most relevant precedent is Rogers vs. Koons, which Jeff Koons lost. (He took an artist&#8217;s published photo of a bunch of puppies and made a sculpture based on it. A 3D copy.)</p>
<p>See: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_v._Koons" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_v._Koons</a></p>
<p>If the Fairey/AP case made it to court, the Koons decision is probably what would have guided the trail.</p>
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		<title>By: styrofoam</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1007892</link>
		<dc:creator>styrofoam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1007892</guid>
		<description>&quot;Isn&#039;t a case of not stealing from anyone who cares, like how Obey Giant&#039;s creator hasn&#039;t been sued?&quot;

Sometimes my subtle internet humor meter is broken, and I think this is one of those times.  I hope.

I don&#039;t know of any lawsuits explicitly surrounding Obey Giant, but you do realize that the artist involved was one Shepard Fairey, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Isn&#8217;t a case of not stealing from anyone who cares, like how Obey Giant&#8217;s creator hasn&#8217;t been sued?&#8221;</p>
<p>Sometimes my subtle internet humor meter is broken, and I think this is one of those times.  I hope.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know of any lawsuits explicitly surrounding Obey Giant, but you do realize that the artist involved was one Shepard Fairey, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Bonner</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1008407</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Bonner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1008407</guid>
		<description>No, you are mistaken, Shepard does not use illustrator to auto trace images, and never has. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, you are mistaken, Shepard does not use illustrator to auto trace images, and never has. </p>
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		<title>By: Matt Cornell</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1008919</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Cornell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1008919</guid>
		<description>&quot;We did some photoshop work of our own and with a little tugging and pulling we found that the original Moser fit quite perfectly on top of the obey print.&quot;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thenerd/332243824/

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We did some photoshop work of our own and with a little tugging and pulling we found that the original Moser fit quite perfectly on top of the obey print.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/thenerd/332243824/" rel="nofollow">http://www.flickr.com/photos/thenerd/332243824/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Egypt Urnash</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1007131</link>
		<dc:creator>Egypt Urnash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1007131</guid>
		<description>I do not think this is sufficiently transformative. These are, at best, &quot;intro to painting/stenciling/photoshop&quot; exercises, done with vague competence at best. I&#039;ve seen better Photoshops than the last one coming out of 4chan.

As an artist who has spent a large part of her life learning to hold a very personal mirror up to the world, the fact that this sort of work is taken seriously as something worth paying a lot of money for makes me very, very sad. There is little invention in it and only the most basic level of craft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not think this is sufficiently transformative. These are, at best, &#8220;intro to painting/stenciling/photoshop&#8221; exercises, done with vague competence at best. I&#8217;ve seen better Photoshops than the last one coming out of 4chan.</p>
<p>As an artist who has spent a large part of her life learning to hold a very personal mirror up to the world, the fact that this sort of work is taken seriously as something worth paying a lot of money for makes me very, very sad. There is little invention in it and only the most basic level of craft.</p>
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		<title>By: MRBELLBOY</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1008164</link>
		<dc:creator>MRBELLBOY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1008164</guid>
		<description>Guetta,banal as he is is part of a continuum of well-established contemporary art practice.If what he&#039;s done is illegal then the floodgates are open-Warhol,Damian Hirst,Richard Prince,Jeff Koons,etc.etc.The list of artists who use appropriation in their work is long.After Duchamp,context has become the crucial signifier.Is this agood or a bad thing-you tell me? 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guetta,banal as he is is part of a continuum of well-established contemporary art practice.If what he&#8217;s done is illegal then the floodgates are open-Warhol,Damian Hirst,Richard Prince,Jeff Koons,etc.etc.The list of artists who use appropriation in their work is long.After Duchamp,context has become the crucial signifier.Is this agood or a bad thing-you tell me? </p>
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		<title>By: Ambiguity</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1007152</link>
		<dc:creator>Ambiguity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1007152</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m considering taking all of Lady Gaga&#039;s songs and re-sampling them down to about 64kbps. I think that would be sufficiently transformative, &#039;cause I&#039;m an artist and my body of work is about insightful phenomenological explorations of &lt;i&gt;time&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;resolution&lt;/i&gt; and, in the larger context, what it means to be &lt;i&gt;human&lt;/i&gt; in a digital world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m considering taking all of Lady Gaga&#8217;s songs and re-sampling them down to about 64kbps. I think that would be sufficiently transformative, &#8217;cause I&#8217;m an artist and my body of work is about insightful phenomenological explorations of <i>time</i> and <i>resolution</i> and, in the larger context, what it means to be <i>human</i> in a digital world.</p>
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		<title>By: MyJetSki</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1007154</link>
		<dc:creator>MyJetSki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1007154</guid>
		<description>When your friends get together, do you all wear scuba gear so you don&#039;t drown in a sea of rationalizations? 

You want judges to decide who made what iconic? Please. Are you saying that what Guetta did is stealing, but Fairey did isn&#039;t because of the recognizability of the source image to the original artist. That&#039;s some shaky-ass shit. 

Isn&#039;t re-purposing something iconic more effective than a random image, anyway? If something doesn&#039;t have context, does re-purposing do anything? Girl Talk is successful when Biggie and Elton are dueting, otherwise it isn&#039;t so special. 

This is like those early 90s/late 80s sampling trials. How recognizable is it? How much has changed? Bull. It&#039;s either Fair Use, or it isn&#039;t. Either we have Fair Use, or we don&#039;t. We should have Fair Use. Long before art was actively recorded and disseminated, people built on the ideas of those who came before them, sometimes in very literal ways.

This seems to be more a case of not liking the re-purposing, because it&#039;s not &quot;art&quot;. If Negativland had used this &quot;icon&quot; on an album cover, would we be having this discussion? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When your friends get together, do you all wear scuba gear so you don&#8217;t drown in a sea of rationalizations? </p>
<p>You want judges to decide who made what iconic? Please. Are you saying that what Guetta did is stealing, but Fairey did isn&#8217;t because of the recognizability of the source image to the original artist. That&#8217;s some shaky-ass shit. </p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t re-purposing something iconic more effective than a random image, anyway? If something doesn&#8217;t have context, does re-purposing do anything? Girl Talk is successful when Biggie and Elton are dueting, otherwise it isn&#8217;t so special. </p>
<p>This is like those early 90s/late 80s sampling trials. How recognizable is it? How much has changed? Bull. It&#8217;s either Fair Use, or it isn&#8217;t. Either we have Fair Use, or we don&#8217;t. We should have Fair Use. Long before art was actively recorded and disseminated, people built on the ideas of those who came before them, sometimes in very literal ways.</p>
<p>This seems to be more a case of not liking the re-purposing, because it&#8217;s not &#8220;art&#8221;. If Negativland had used this &#8220;icon&#8221; on an album cover, would we be having this discussion? </p>
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		<title>By: Matt Cornell</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1007157</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Cornell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1007157</guid>
		<description>Bonner sure seems to be splitting hairs here. I had the same thoughts while watching &quot;Exit Through the Gift Shop.&quot; The film mocks Guetta for many of the same sins committed by Fairey (mass production, pop culture shallowness, pilfered ideas.) 

There&#039;s also some important context left out of this article. Fairey admitted to destroying and faking evidence in the dispute with AP, and may have committed perjury. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/16/ap-claims-shepard-fairey_n_324482.html

This isn&#039;t to mention Fairey&#039;s long history of engaging in &quot;referencing&quot; that is nearly identical to Guetta&#039;s. Here&#039;s just a small sampling of instances.

http://www.art-for-a-change.com/Obey/index.htm

http://www.justseeds.org/blog/2007/12/a_response_to_obey_plagiarist_1.html

http://www.brghtnghts.com/blog/?page_id=46

I&#039;m not gonna weigh in on the the merits of a Fair Use argument in either Guetta&#039;s or Fairey&#039;s case (I&#039;ve got my own fair use spoofs on my website), but I think the distinction Bonner is trying to draw here doesn&#039;t convince.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bonner sure seems to be splitting hairs here. I had the same thoughts while watching &#8220;Exit Through the Gift Shop.&#8221; The film mocks Guetta for many of the same sins committed by Fairey (mass production, pop culture shallowness, pilfered ideas.) </p>
<p>There&#8217;s also some important context left out of this article. Fairey admitted to destroying and faking evidence in the dispute with AP, and may have committed perjury. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/16/ap-claims-shepard-fairey_n_324482.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/16/ap-claims-shepard-fairey_n_324482.html</a></p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t to mention Fairey&#8217;s long history of engaging in &#8220;referencing&#8221; that is nearly identical to Guetta&#8217;s. Here&#8217;s just a small sampling of instances.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.art-for-a-change.com/Obey/index.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.art-for-a-change.com/Obey/index.htm</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.justseeds.org/blog/2007/12/a_response_to_obey_plagiarist_1.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.justseeds.org/blog/2007/12/a_response_to_obey_plagiarist_1.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.brghtnghts.com/blog/?page_id=46" rel="nofollow">http://www.brghtnghts.com/blog/?page_id=46</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;m not gonna weigh in on the the merits of a Fair Use argument in either Guetta&#8217;s or Fairey&#8217;s case (I&#8217;ve got my own fair use spoofs on my website), but I think the distinction Bonner is trying to draw here doesn&#8217;t convince.</p>
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		<title>By: sg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1018681</link>
		<dc:creator>sg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1018681</guid>
		<description>&quot;There was reason to believe that the court would find in favor of the AP because Fairey&#039;s &quot;fair use&quot; defense was not very strong.&quot;

right, because he traced the outlines in the photo.  There is simply no other explanation.  Any &quot;original&quot; creative expression Fairey added was entirely dependent on the original photo.

Whether he did it by hand or used Illustrator or GIMP or whatever doesn&#039;t matter.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There was reason to believe that the court would find in favor of the AP because Fairey&#8217;s &#8220;fair use&#8221; defense was not very strong.&#8221;</p>
<p>right, because he traced the outlines in the photo.  There is simply no other explanation.  Any &#8220;original&#8221; creative expression Fairey added was entirely dependent on the original photo.</p>
<p>Whether he did it by hand or used Illustrator or GIMP or whatever doesn&#8217;t matter.</p>
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		<title>By: 2k</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1135930</link>
		<dc:creator>2k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1135930</guid>
		<description>I have an opinion on this but it&#039;s really just sampled and copied from everybody else&#039;s:
&quot;Life is Beautiful&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have an opinion on this but it&#8217;s really just sampled and copied from everybody else&#8217;s:<br />
&#8220;Life is Beautiful&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1014333</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1014333</guid>
		<description>If MBW had taken the image, changed it drastically and posted it as graffitti art on the street that is one thing.
BUT if he took the image, altered it minimally and sold it as art in a gallery for many $$ - nah - Glen E Freidman has a right to be mad.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If MBW had taken the image, changed it drastically and posted it as graffitti art on the street that is one thing.<br />
BUT if he took the image, altered it minimally and sold it as art in a gallery for many $$ &#8211; nah &#8211; Glen E Freidman has a right to be mad.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1007166</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1007166</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s hard to look at something like this impartially, for SB it involves people he&#039;s close to, for those of us who don&#039;t know these people personally, we have EXIT and past media helping shape our opinions of these people.

I think this is fair use, and to say that it does not is directly going to erode fair use defenses further than they already are.

If the photographer wins, it&#039;s bad for other &#039;street&#039; artists who make &#039;better&#039; or more meaningful art that plays with iconic images.

If he loses, it&#039;s bad for those who have created the iconic pictures that are fodder for today&#039;s artists.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s hard to look at something like this impartially, for SB it involves people he&#8217;s close to, for those of us who don&#8217;t know these people personally, we have EXIT and past media helping shape our opinions of these people.</p>
<p>I think this is fair use, and to say that it does not is directly going to erode fair use defenses further than they already are.</p>
<p>If the photographer wins, it&#8217;s bad for other &#8216;street&#8217; artists who make &#8216;better&#8217; or more meaningful art that plays with iconic images.</p>
<p>If he loses, it&#8217;s bad for those who have created the iconic pictures that are fodder for today&#8217;s artists.</p>
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		<title>By: double_tilly</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1008194</link>
		<dc:creator>double_tilly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1008194</guid>
		<description>I agree... Continuum of well-established contemporary art practice and all that. But I don&#039;t think it matters much if it&#039;s good or bad. 

Mimicry, copying, appropriation is a beautiful and basic human behavior. Much of behavior and much of learning is a blend of mimicry and uniqueness. In some sense mimicry/copy/appropriation lead to deep understanding, to connection, community, and paradoxically can lead to personal identity.

Reception and Expression are a yin yang thing. To mimic can be a a deep way to receive. 

Culturally, we tend to favor expression over reception. Male over female. 

Some bristle at the notion of limitations on copying behavior-- the deep sense of understanding and connection that can come out of appropriation is beautiful, and can, paradoxically, lead to more profound unique expression. 

So, metaphorically, when strong cultural voices commit to positions limiting said behavior, the animal mimicry side of the self wants to tell those limiters to fuck off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree&#8230; Continuum of well-established contemporary art practice and all that. But I don&#8217;t think it matters much if it&#8217;s good or bad. </p>
<p>Mimicry, copying, appropriation is a beautiful and basic human behavior. Much of behavior and much of learning is a blend of mimicry and uniqueness. In some sense mimicry/copy/appropriation lead to deep understanding, to connection, community, and paradoxically can lead to personal identity.</p>
<p>Reception and Expression are a yin yang thing. To mimic can be a a deep way to receive. </p>
<p>Culturally, we tend to favor expression over reception. Male over female. </p>
<p>Some bristle at the notion of limitations on copying behavior&#8211; the deep sense of understanding and connection that can come out of appropriation is beautiful, and can, paradoxically, lead to more profound unique expression. </p>
<p>So, metaphorically, when strong cultural voices commit to positions limiting said behavior, the animal mimicry side of the self wants to tell those limiters to fuck off.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1073734</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1073734</guid>
		<description>you cant sue who you dont know</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you cant sue who you dont know</p>
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		<title>By: notavegan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1006919</link>
		<dc:creator>notavegan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1006919</guid>
		<description>Jeez what a stress?! 

Do dos rappas own the words dey trash?

Honey if you say &quot;no&quot; you screwed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeez what a stress?! </p>
<p>Do dos rappas own the words dey trash?</p>
<p>Honey if you say &#8220;no&#8221; you screwed.</p>
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		<title>By: MyJetSki</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1007177</link>
		<dc:creator>MyJetSki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1007177</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s your right, by my measure to do that. It&#039;s the public&#039;s responsibility to recognize that as wack and not support it. Unless, of course, it is awesome. Gaga should have thought of that shit, then. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s your right, by my measure to do that. It&#8217;s the public&#8217;s responsibility to recognize that as wack and not support it. Unless, of course, it is awesome. Gaga should have thought of that shit, then. </p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1009484</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1009484</guid>
		<description> in fact Run-DMC&#039;s 1st two studio albums had NO SAMPLES and both sold in the hundreds of thousands if not millions, there third did contain samples, but they did not build their careers from other peoples samples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> in fact Run-DMC&#8217;s 1st two studio albums had NO SAMPLES and both sold in the hundreds of thousands if not millions, there third did contain samples, but they did not build their careers from other peoples samples.</p>
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		<title>By: Xenu</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1007183</link>
		<dc:creator>Xenu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1007183</guid>
		<description>How dare Mr. Brainwash question The King of Rock?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How dare Mr. Brainwash question The King of Rock?!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: sg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1006928</link>
		<dc:creator>sg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1006928</guid>
		<description>Note, the AP v. Shep case &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?id=1202477929142&amp;slreturn=1&amp;hbxlogin=1&quot;&gt;was settled Jan 13.&lt;/a&gt;  

Fairey paid up.  And granted AP royalties going forward on any sales.  So... seems like not such a fair use after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note, the AP v. Shep case <a href="http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?id=1202477929142&#038;slreturn=1&#038;hbxlogin=1">was settled Jan 13.</a>  </p>
<p>Fairey paid up.  And granted AP royalties going forward on any sales.  So&#8230; seems like not such a fair use after all.</p>
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		<title>By: sg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1007184</link>
		<dc:creator>sg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1007184</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t read the settlement.  Neither can you.  It&#039;s private. Both sides probably agreed to keep the actual terms confidential.  You can check the docket here: http://archive.recapthelaw.org/nysd/340121/

Fairey can continue to claim fair use all he wants. The AP press release makes it pretty clear Fairey is the one who had to give ground here:

&quot;The two sides have also agreed to work together going forward with the Hope image and share the rights to make the posters and merchandise bearing the Hope image and to collaborate on a series of images that Fairey will create based on AP photographs.&quot;

http://www.ap.org/pages/about/pressreleases/pr_01122011a.html

That&#039;s either revenue-sharing on future sales, or a grantback so AP can profit by selling its own versions of hope.  But it also sounds like he&#039;s agreed to take more licenses from them in the future.  You think those will be fair use too?  I think &quot;asking permission and getting a license in advance&quot; is a relatively novel way for Mr. Fairey to choose his subjects.

If he really believed he had a fair-use defense, why would he agree to give AP rights or pay them royalties?

He traced the photo, Sean.  Line for line.  He admitted it.  But it&#039;s always been obvious- I mean, I put an animated GIF together in 2008 to demonstrate that he didn&#039;t change a line:

(can I post images here?  I&#039;ll try and then add a link).

&lt;img src=&quot;http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2707/fadetofairey.gif&quot;&gt;


http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2707/fadetofairey.gif</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t read the settlement.  Neither can you.  It&#8217;s private. Both sides probably agreed to keep the actual terms confidential.  You can check the docket here: <a href="http://archive.recapthelaw.org/nysd/340121/" rel="nofollow">http://archive.recapthelaw.org/nysd/340121/</a></p>
<p>Fairey can continue to claim fair use all he wants. The AP press release makes it pretty clear Fairey is the one who had to give ground here:</p>
<p>&#8220;The two sides have also agreed to work together going forward with the Hope image and share the rights to make the posters and merchandise bearing the Hope image and to collaborate on a series of images that Fairey will create based on AP photographs.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ap.org/pages/about/pressreleases/pr_01122011a.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ap.org/pages/about/pressreleases/pr_01122011a.html</a></p>
<p>That&#8217;s either revenue-sharing on future sales, or a grantback so AP can profit by selling its own versions of hope.  But it also sounds like he&#8217;s agreed to take more licenses from them in the future.  You think those will be fair use too?  I think &#8220;asking permission and getting a license in advance&#8221; is a relatively novel way for Mr. Fairey to choose his subjects.</p>
<p>If he really believed he had a fair-use defense, why would he agree to give AP rights or pay them royalties?</p>
<p>He traced the photo, Sean.  Line for line.  He admitted it.  But it&#8217;s always been obvious- I mean, I put an animated GIF together in 2008 to demonstrate that he didn&#8217;t change a line:</p>
<p>(can I post images here?  I&#8217;ll try and then add a link).</p>
<p><img src="http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2707/fadetofairey.gif"/></p>
<p><a href="http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2707/fadetofairey.gif" rel="nofollow">http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2707/fadetofairey.gif</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1007188</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1007188</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s somehow a relief to see MBW getting his comeuppance. It&#039;s clear that there&#039;s a move away from a strait documentary in ETTGS when Banksy tells MBW to start being a street artist, even though he apparently lacks both talent and a creative vision. That there are two 6 month gaps in the film indicates that there&#039;s something else going on. What&#039;s going on is that Banksy and Fairey are creating a character for Guetta to play out, then filming it for use in a documentary to compliment their own ingenious work. MBW clearly soulless copying contrast with Banksy and Fairey&#039;s innovative and witty art. They probably didn&#039;t expect MBW to be as popular and financially successful as he was, but the popularity of the film certainly did nothing to take away from that of Banksy and Fairey. If the works weren&#039;t fair use, were their inclusion in the movie also cause for action? I hope not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s somehow a relief to see MBW getting his comeuppance. It&#8217;s clear that there&#8217;s a move away from a strait documentary in ETTGS when Banksy tells MBW to start being a street artist, even though he apparently lacks both talent and a creative vision. That there are two 6 month gaps in the film indicates that there&#8217;s something else going on. What&#8217;s going on is that Banksy and Fairey are creating a character for Guetta to play out, then filming it for use in a documentary to compliment their own ingenious work. MBW clearly soulless copying contrast with Banksy and Fairey&#8217;s innovative and witty art. They probably didn&#8217;t expect MBW to be as popular and financially successful as he was, but the popularity of the film certainly did nothing to take away from that of Banksy and Fairey. If the works weren&#8217;t fair use, were their inclusion in the movie also cause for action? I hope not.</p>
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		<title>By: redwing37</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/01/26/thierry-guetta-aka-m.html#comment-1006934</link>
		<dc:creator>redwing37</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1006934</guid>
		<description>What did Warhol do?

http://themarilynmonroecollection.blogspot.com/2009/03/original-monroe-image-sells-at-auction.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What did Warhol do?</p>
<p><a href="http://themarilynmonroecollection.blogspot.com/2009/03/original-monroe-image-sells-at-auction.html" rel="nofollow">http://themarilynmonroecollection.blogspot.com/2009/03/original-monroe-image-sells-at-auction.html</a></p>
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