Comments on: Reports of damage, and civilians preventing damage, to Egyptian Museum antiquities http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Mon, 20 May 2013 08:29:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: alllie http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011499 alllie Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011499 <blockquote>Violent uprising and repression I can understand- there is comprehensible motive- but what purpose is there in defacing antiquities?</blockquote> Do you remember the Taliban destroying the Buddhist statutes? Some Muslim sects believe in destroying the artifacts of any other religion. Hell, the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_early_Islamic_heritage_sites#Destruction_of_important_sites">Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia believe in destroying Muslim religious sites</a>. But some thugs just destroy for fun.

Violent uprising and repression I can understand- there is comprehensible motive- but what purpose is there in defacing antiquities?

Do you remember the Taliban destroying the Buddhist statutes?

Some Muslim sects believe in destroying the artifacts of any other religion. Hell, the Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia believe in destroying Muslim religious sites.

But some thugs just destroy for fun.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011249 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011249 This is a very beautiful thing to me. One of the most tragic scenes of the Iraq war(s) for me was a video of the curator of a Baghdad museum weeping and screaming in an uncontrolled manner as his museum was raped of it's historic wealth by looters. I know that will sound odd that of all the tragedy that has occured in the country that that image is the primary image that stands out in my mind. I don't mean to dismiss the deaths of either the soldiers or civilians involved in the conflict in any way, shape or form. Obviously those loses sadden me. We all leave though and we all leave something behind. What was left in the past and recovered and was on display in the Iraqi museums cannot be replaced. Can never be replicated. And were such a significant and major "viewfinder" into the past that the exhibits "total-ness" will never be achieved again for what it was showing. We lost such a major part of historical artifacts because of looters in one city... I'm so, so glad that in another its citizens recognize the wealth and significance of them and are willing to protect them and preserve a part of our history. As an outsider looking in I can only say "thank you" and I wish you all the best in the quest for true democracy and equal rights. This is a very beautiful thing to me. One of the most tragic scenes of the Iraq war(s) for me was a video of the curator of a Baghdad museum weeping and screaming in an uncontrolled manner as his museum was raped of it’s historic wealth by looters.

I know that will sound odd that of all the tragedy that has occured in the country that that image is the primary image that stands out in my mind. I don’t mean to dismiss the deaths of either the soldiers or civilians involved in the conflict in any way, shape or form. Obviously those loses sadden me.

We all leave though and we all leave something behind. What was left in the past and recovered and was on display in the Iraqi museums cannot be replaced. Can never be replicated. And were such a significant and major “viewfinder” into the past that the exhibits “total-ness” will never be achieved again for what it was showing.

We lost such a major part of historical artifacts because of looters in one city… I’m so, so glad that in another its citizens recognize the wealth and significance of them and are willing to protect them and preserve a part of our history.

As an outsider looking in I can only say “thank you” and I wish you all the best in the quest for true democracy and equal rights.

]]> By: AnthonyC http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011251 AnthonyC Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011251 Violent uprising and repression I can understand- there is comprehensible motive- but what purpose is there in defacing antiquities? Violent uprising and repression I can understand- there is comprehensible motive- but what purpose is there in defacing antiquities?

]]> By: chgoliz http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1012275 chgoliz Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1012275 Based on what I've read most recently, it was a group of 9 people, one of whom was caught by one of the night guards. Damage done, some gold tips gone, but no antiquity actually stolen. The jewelry in the gift shop, however, is now history. *snort* Other museums attempted, without success. Based on what I’ve read most recently, it was a group of 9 people, one of whom was caught by one of the night guards. Damage done, some gold tips gone, but no antiquity actually stolen.

The jewelry in the gift shop, however, is now history. *snort*

Other museums attempted, without success.

]]> By: chgoliz http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011253 chgoliz Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011253 Mob action isn't rational. Unfortunately. The museum is an astonishing place, filled with one of the largest collections of truly irreplaceable historical pieces in the world, and yet most are not identified and are in cases with no atmospheric controls (or no cases at all). They were in the process of building a new building to move into, in 2009 when I was there. No telling what will happen now. Mob action isn’t rational. Unfortunately.

The museum is an astonishing place, filled with one of the largest collections of truly irreplaceable historical pieces in the world, and yet most are not identified and are in cases with no atmospheric controls (or no cases at all).

They were in the process of building a new building to move into, in 2009 when I was there. No telling what will happen now.

]]> By: politeruin http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011255 politeruin Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011255 Awful. I don't know why seeing something like this gets to me so much but it does, it really does. Some of this stuff is 4000 years old and now smashed to pieces. It's on the level of depravity as seeing a mass book booking. Chrrrist, what arseholes. Awful. I don’t know why seeing something like this gets to me so much but it does, it really does. Some of this stuff is 4000 years old and now smashed to pieces. It’s on the level of depravity as seeing a mass book booking.

Chrrrist, what arseholes.

]]> By: benher http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011264 benher Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011264 This sucks. We lost a whole mess of stuff during the American sacking of Iraq in 2003 and now this... not a good decades for curators or art fans. This sucks. We lost a whole mess of stuff during the American sacking of Iraq in 2003 and now this… not a good decades for curators or art fans.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011275 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011275 Over and OVER again the Egyptians calling out on landlines from Cairo have identified these "looters" as agents provocateur from the NDP. The Army stops these hooligans but is repeatedly forced to release the looters, since they are carrying Police IDs or NDP credentials. Why is BB ignoring this? Over and OVER again the Egyptians calling out on landlines from Cairo have identified these “looters” as agents provocateur from the NDP.

The Army stops these hooligans but is repeatedly forced to release the looters, since they are carrying Police IDs or NDP credentials.

Why is BB ignoring this?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011276 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011276 From what I'm hearing, the looters who got caught damaging things turned out to be cops in plainclothes. From what I’m hearing, the looters who got caught damaging things turned out to be cops in plainclothes.

]]> By: Cassandra http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011292 Cassandra Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011292 It looks like most of the ones that got taken might have been gilded. For instance, the king on the leopard--the leopard's body is there, but its ears are gone. If you look at the "before" photo, its ears were gilded and probably easy enough to snap off. People are taking it for the gold. Very sad. That being said, good for the citizens bravely protecting their heritage. It looks like most of the ones that got taken might have been gilded. For instance, the king on the leopard–the leopard’s body is there, but its ears are gone. If you look at the “before” photo, its ears were gilded and probably easy enough to snap off. People are taking it for the gold. Very sad.

That being said, good for the citizens bravely protecting their heritage.

]]> By: Jake0748 http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011295 Jake0748 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011295 I visited the Egyptian Museum once about 6 or 7 years ago. It fulfilled all my lifelong fantasies about what Egypt is all about. I got to go face to face with the gold mask of "King Tut", I mean like 8 inches away. I saw so many fantastic things beyond that. Its like a dream to me now. Of course, I had to go by a lot of guards with machine guns, and ones asking me if I was carrying any knives (I wasn't), but it was worth it to get inside. I just hope everything will be ok there in Cairo and the rest of the country. I loved it there. The world needs Egypt. I visited the Egyptian Museum once about 6 or 7 years ago. It fulfilled all my lifelong fantasies about what Egypt is all about. I got to go face to face with the gold mask of “King Tut”, I mean like 8 inches away. I saw so many fantastic things beyond that. Its like a dream to me now.
Of course, I had to go by a lot of guards with machine guns, and ones asking me if I was carrying any knives (I wasn’t), but it was worth it to get inside.
I just hope everything will be ok there in Cairo and the rest of the country. I loved it there.
The world needs Egypt.

]]> By: Thebes http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011298 Thebes Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011298 The purpose of defacing antiquities is to make the protesters look bad. Its actually thugs that Mubarak's regime let out of prison in exchange for doing the job. It gives Mubarak something to protect. Many actions in war are not what they seem at first glance, and make no mistake this is a revolution and war, not just protests. The purpose of defacing antiquities is to make the protesters look bad. Its actually thugs that Mubarak’s regime let out of prison in exchange for doing the job. It gives Mubarak something to protect. Many actions in war are not what they seem at first glance, and make no mistake this is a revolution and war, not just protests.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011301 Antinous / Moderator Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011301 I found the fragiles most interesting. "Oh, look. There's our bathroom wastebasket." "Hey, it's 6,000 years old." I found the fragiles most interesting. “Oh, look. There’s our bathroom wastebasket.” “Hey, it’s 6,000 years old.”

]]> By: Jake0748 http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011304 Jake0748 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011304 Antinous, sometimes you boggle my mind with your cynicism. If there were any "our bathroom wastebasket is 6000 years old" people there when I was there, I refused to credit their existence. Don't you please ruin my memory of that place. (I know you are my friend, and maybe you are just kidding). Antinous, sometimes you boggle my mind with your cynicism. If there were any “our bathroom wastebasket is 6000 years old” people there when I was there, I refused to credit their existence.

Don’t you please ruin my memory of that place. (I know you are my friend, and maybe you are just kidding).

]]> By: spriggan http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011817 spriggan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011817 Awesome. Maybe with the restructuring/revolution Zahi Hawass will stop raping their collective history. That bloated ass gets over paid/news coverage/a new house every time they find a new pottery shard and it's filmed for Discovery Channel. Still sad the rest of the populus lost some irreplaceble bits of their past, but man I can't stomach Hawass anymore. Awesome. Maybe with the restructuring/revolution Zahi Hawass will stop raping their collective history. That bloated ass gets over paid/news coverage/a new house every time they find a new pottery shard and it’s filmed for Discovery Channel. Still sad the rest of the populus lost some irreplaceble bits of their past, but man I can’t stomach Hawass anymore.

]]> By: Jack http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011307 Jack Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011307 Can you provide a credible source for that claim? Also, in general I see the glass as half-full in this case. It’s clear there is an effort to protect the nation’s history. And that’s a good thing. Because the second you lose sight of your roots—good or bad—you will truly loose your mind. Can you provide a credible source for that claim?

Also, in general I see the glass as half-full in this case. It’s clear there is an effort to protect the nation’s history. And that’s a good thing. Because the second you lose sight of your roots—good or bad—you will truly loose your mind.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011316 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011316 Yeah.. I have heard similar reports. On NPR yesterday there was a woman talking about plainclothes cops starting fires to make it appear as if the protesters had turned violent. It wasn't inferred either, it was exactly what she said. I remember the cops in Canada doing similar things during the G20 protests. Yeah.. I have heard similar reports.
On NPR yesterday there was a woman talking about plainclothes cops starting fires to make it appear as if the protesters had turned violent. It wasn’t inferred either, it was exactly what she said.

I remember the cops in Canada doing similar things during the G20 protests.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011329 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011329 “I picked up a newspaper today and I couldn’t believe it. I read eight headlines that talked about chaos, violence, unrest. And it just was Henny Penny—‘The sky is falling.’ I’ve never seen anything like it! And here is a country that’s being liberated, here are people who are going from being repressed and held under the thumb of a vicious dictator, and they’re free. It’s just unbelievable how people can take that away from what is happening in that country! Do I think those words are unrepresentative? Yes.” “Let me say one other thing,” he adds. “The images you are seeing on television you are seeing over, and over, and over, and it’s the same picture of some person walking out of some building with a vase, and you see it 20 times, and you think: ‘My goodness, were there that many vases? Is it possible that there were that many vases in the whole country?’” "Freedom is untidy and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things. " “I picked up a newspaper today and I couldn’t believe it. I read eight headlines that talked about chaos, violence, unrest. And it just was Henny Penny—‘The sky is falling.’ I’ve never seen anything like it! And here is a country that’s being liberated, here are people who are going from being repressed and held under the thumb of a vicious dictator, and they’re free. It’s just unbelievable how people can take that away from what is happening in that country! Do I think those words are unrepresentative? Yes.”

“Let me say one other thing,” he adds. “The images you are seeing on television you are seeing over, and over, and over, and it’s the same picture of some person walking out of some building with a vase, and you see it 20 times, and you think: ‘My goodness, were there that many vases? Is it possible that there were that many vases in the whole country?’”

“Freedom is untidy and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things. ”

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011332 Antinous / Moderator Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011332 Dude, There are multi-thousand year old baskets there that are made exactly like what you buy at Cost Plus today. That's not cynicism. Dude,

There are multi-thousand year old baskets there that are made exactly like what you buy at Cost Plus today. That’s not cynicism.

]]> By: Jack http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011856 Jack Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011856 Something other than anonymous comments and tweets from folks not in Egypt? Something other than anonymous comments and tweets from folks not in Egypt?

]]> By: travtastic http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011351 travtastic Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011351 What do you consider a reliable source to be? What do you consider a reliable source to be?

]]> By: artaxerxes http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011358 artaxerxes Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011358 Reliable sources: Robert Fisk* in the Independent. Many reports on AlJazeera, which is providing the best television news coverage available. At any rate, I am busy right now gathering and indexing all of the reports of looting and vandalism by "thugs" carrying police ID or Interior Ministry ID. I'm also trying to locate all of the articles I've read earlier that state that the Interior Ministry, under orders from Mubarak or Suleiman, has released and armed convicts to loot, vandalize and rape. The intention, which I'm sure you've heard or read in main-stream news sources, is to create a state of fear in citizens and suggest that HE, Hosni Mubarak, was the ONLY man strong enough to keep the Egyptian citizenry safe from "these predators." He's acting like a petulant, spoiled, dangerous, 82-year-old child: "If I can't have it! I'm going to pay my minions to burn it down." Hitler employed a similar technique once he finally realized that he was going to lose the war. Bastards. ***** Different topic: Great article from Jack Shenker of the Guardian. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/27/egypt-riot-security-force-action He was rolled up by security police and beaten repeatedly, robbed, beaten again, then packed into a van with another 47 men. One of them turned out to be Noor Ayman Nour, journalist and the son of the prominent dissident politician, Ayman Nour. Ultimately, his presence secured their release, but only because his father and a group of friends managed to track the van as it drove away from the IM. But one should just read the article. It's very interesting and sheds some light on how the security police have been behaving. There's also a very short audio interview that Shenker conducted while they were in the back of the van. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/audio/2011/jan/26/egypt-violence-jack-shenker-ayman-nour-audio Sorry for any typoes. Compiling, and watching AlJazeera and talking to Egyptian friends, and reading lots. Reliable sources: Robert Fisk* in the Independent. Many reports on AlJazeera, which is providing the best television news coverage available.

At any rate, I am busy right now gathering and indexing all of the reports of looting and vandalism by “thugs” carrying police ID or Interior Ministry ID. I’m also trying to locate all of the articles I’ve read earlier that state that the Interior Ministry, under orders from Mubarak or Suleiman, has released and armed convicts to loot, vandalize and rape.

The intention, which I’m sure you’ve heard or read in main-stream news sources, is to create a state of fear in citizens and suggest that HE, Hosni Mubarak, was the ONLY man strong enough to keep the Egyptian citizenry safe from “these predators.”

He’s acting like a petulant, spoiled, dangerous, 82-year-old child: “If I can’t have it! I’m going to pay my minions to burn it down.” Hitler employed a similar technique once he finally realized that he was going to lose the war. Bastards.

*****

Different topic:

Great article from Jack Shenker of the Guardian. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/27/egypt-riot-security-force-action

He was rolled up by security police and beaten repeatedly, robbed, beaten again, then packed into a van with another 47 men. One of them turned out to be Noor Ayman Nour, journalist and the son of the prominent dissident politician, Ayman Nour. Ultimately, his presence secured their release, but only because his father and a group of friends managed to track the van as it drove away from the IM.

But one should just read the article. It’s very interesting and sheds some light on how the security police have been behaving.

There’s also a very short audio interview that Shenker conducted while they were in the back of the van. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/audio/2011/jan/26/egypt-violence-jack-shenker-ayman-nour-audio

Sorry for any typoes. Compiling, and watching AlJazeera and talking to Egyptian friends, and reading lots.

]]> By: GuidoDavid http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011415 GuidoDavid Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011415 I think we need a new Internet Law: "In a discussion about Authoritarian governments, no matter what they do, somebody is always going to try to defend their actions and try to claim the blame is not theirs." Or something like that. But it's a very good thing to see the Egyptians defend their heritage. I think we need a new Internet Law:

“In a discussion about Authoritarian governments, no matter what they do, somebody is always going to try to defend their actions and try to claim the blame is not theirs.”

Or something like that.

But it’s a very good thing to see the Egyptians defend their heritage.

]]> By: travtastic http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011929 travtastic Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011929 I'm sending forensic teams over as soon as possible. We'll dispel these awful rumors once and for all. I’m sending forensic teams over as soon as possible. We’ll dispel these awful rumors once and for all.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/01/29/reports-of-damage-an.html#comment-1011435 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1011435 *sigh* It could have been so much worse, yet it is still a sad thing to have happen. I salute those risking themselves to protect their heritage. *sigh*

It could have been so much worse, yet it is still a sad thing to have happen. I salute those risking themselves to protect their heritage.

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