Revolver that fires shotgun shells

tonesfrommars

Am I really the first to think of the Judge from McCarthy’s Blood Meridian? First thing that came to mind.

Hanglyman

Maybe next they’ll make the revolver with the really, really long barrel from the 1989 Batman movie!

knoxblox

I have the feeling I’d split my lip just firing that thing.

Space Monkey

I’d assume they had to quit selling it because it qualifies as a sawed off shotgun.

ill lich

Exactly, that was in fact their reasoning. It is illegal to even own a sawed off shotgun in most states.
- Anonymous
  
  Assuming you pay the $200 federal tax first, it is legal to own a sawed off shotgun in all but 10 states. So for a resident of any of the forty states which allow the ownership of a short barreled shotgun, your statement is wrong.
  
  See http://class3usa.com/State-Laws-class-III.html
LogrusZed

This is what I’d always wondered with the .410 version. I thought they might have gotten away with it because of it being capable of shooting the .45 LC and as you can but “snake/bird” shot for various pistol cartridges so long as you marketed it in a certain way it would be a loophole.

Anonymous

Firing shot out of that small a barrel would be just ridiculously dangerous. It would be like spraying a garden hose of injury.

benher

“Firing shot out of that small a barrel would be just ridiculously awesome. It would be like spraying a garden hose of awesome.”

Fixed that for you

Anonymous

I think this is the point where someone in the round shows a small distance between thumb and index finger, and everyone else nods and giggles.

DJBudSonic

The original Judge was pretty cool and of a reasonable size and caliber, but this is just too much. It must be in violation of the law – where does a shortened rifle become too short and become an enlarged handgun?

I had a recent experience while shopping in a large sporting goods store gun section; which I have described to friends as an experience not unlike the apocryphal story of the woman who has multiple abortions, then a few months later is seen picketing a clinic after undergoing a total change of heart on the morality of her behavior… I saw guns being sold so quickly, to so many different types of people, in an almost unreal variety, it made we wonder if we have in fact gone too far with this consumer freedom in our country.

I had called the day before my visit to check stock on the handguns I wanted to evaluate and potentially purchase. It was 4 models for different purposes, and they had multiples of each in stock. When I arrived the following afternoon they were sold out of all 4 models. They had sold the dozen or so guns I was interested in in a matter of hours.

If you are pro-gun or anti-gun, and have never been to a gun store or large gun counter to witness the selection and ease with which you can purchase a gun, ammunition and accessories in this country I highly recommend you experience this, if only to better inform your arguments on either side of the issue. If the world economy does come crashing down, try not to be too trigger-happy, people.

benenglish

And they might have been lying to you.

I’ll never forget shooting the breeze with a salesman at a huge gun store on a busy Saturday. Since I wasn’t buying, he’d occasionally wait on other customers, take calls, etc. I overheard him take a call and confirm, without moving an inch or looking at anything, that a particular model of shotgun was in stock. 20 minutes later, I was still talking to him when a guy comes up, led over by another employee. It was the guy on the phone, now in-store and ready to buy. Gun guy leaves, comes back in 5 minutes, and tells the customer that the item is out of stock, making up an excuse about how with so many customers in the store, the one they had must have gotten sold in the last 10 minutes or so.

Retail sales-slime, how I hate dealing with ‘em.

ackpht

They should have named it The Compensator.

Anonymous

How dare they pass judgement on the Judge!

Anonymous

A “destructive device” may be more legally accurate , but ATF can change directions faster than Bubba Stewart .

Mirik

Pff, this is nothing. I want a hand gun firing f-ing nukes! NO! Death Starts! NO! BLACK HOLES!

What a diseased world we live in anyways if making bigger and bigger guns is still some person’s main occupation.

Derek C. F. Pegritz

Jayzus! You’d have to be The Hulk to shoot that thing without shattering your wrist!

Flashman

That’s why you gotta hold it sideways; or rather, hold them sideways since you’re probably going to want to be using a pair.

But, why would this thing be illegal in a land where you can own a 30 round handgun clip and a dozen AK -47s?
Does the ATF just not want the American public to have the best tools available to protect their loved ones and their property?
- Niklas
  
  The best protection is seldom violence
  
  The best protection against illegal drug use is not to point guns at drug users.
  The best protection against terrorism is not to point guns at terrorists.
  The best protection against hijackers is not to bring guns into the airport.
  The best protection against dictators is not to bomb the dictator’s country.
  The best protection against a hateful society that is a breeding ground for deranged people is not to hate more people and imply that violence is going to solve their problems.
  
  â€¦and so on.
  - Philboyd Studge
    
    Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. The contrary opinion that violence doesn’t solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst.
    
    When those damn dirty bugs arrive, I want that weapon at my side…that, and Dina Meyer.
    - Niklas
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      Which is why every business decision is a duel to the death?
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      Which is why elections are not conducted via voting, but via grandee lobbing?
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      Which is why violence has resolved illegal drug use?
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      Which is why violence has resolved segregation?
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      Which is why violence brought down the Berlin Wall?
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      Which is why violence makes good neighbors?
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      Which is why violence has prevented terrorism=
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      Which is why guns and raw force enabled the protests in Tunisia and Egypt?
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      Which is why guns prevented the assassination of Tasser, J.F.K. and the shooting of Gifford?
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      Which is why guns enabled the cold war to be such a cosy time?
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      Which is why being violent will make others treat you like a friend?
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      Which is why Iraq is now a safe place to visit?
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      Which is why Afghanistan is now a safe place to visit?
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      Which has solved the problems in Somalia? And off the Somalian coast?
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      Which has prevented the numerous political murders in Philippines?
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      Which was the driving force in the negotiations for the French revolution?
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      Which enabled Martin Luther King Jr to assemble so many people?
      
      “Violence, naked force, has resolved more issues in history than has any other factor. ”
      
      Is the constant threat of violence the driving force that enables education, learning and the pursuit of happiness?
    - Mister44
      
      You know – listing things that violence hasn’t helped or stopped, doesn’t mean that there are not a lot of areas where it has resolved issues.
      
      Watch:
      
      “Tylenol has helped stop more pain per year than any other drug.”
      
      Which is why I took it after having my arm ripped of by a tiger.
      
      Absurdity.
    - Philboyd Studge
      
      For feck’s sake, I was making a movie reference.
      
      But since you mention it, let’s look at your lifestyle. If you are an American, every bit of your lifestyle is washed in human blood. Your property was taken from the local aboriginals at gunpoint, which is fine, as they were doing the same to each other before Westerners arrived, just with more primitive weapons. Your computer and cell-phone contain raw materials that were taken from the 3rd-world locals, who were/are shut up with a bullet when they balked at multi-nats coming in to pull it out of the ground. That mid-east sourced gasoline in your car was taken at gun-point as well, and the current stooges who sell it to us maintain their control with US-made arms. That diamond ring on your, or your honey-bunny’s finger? Taken via Brit colonial wars to control India and Southern Africa. We won’t even go into the grey-market guns for stones market. While we mention the UK, do I need to mention the gun-boats and occupation of China that made fortunes via the opium trade? Of course, governments no longer control world-wide drug trade anymore…ha ha ha. The current Afghan war SURELY has curtailed that. As for technology, ALL advances in medicine to the internet was at least partially developed as part of warfare. Hell, even basic standards for nutrition and universal education only came about due to WWI- the base of recruits was considered too unhealthy and illiterate to be effective and directed in battle. The same German V-2s that pummeled Birmingham and London also put the US (and Russians) into space. We don’t even have that relatively benign space-race anymore to drive innovation- the bastards killed that to pay for occupations now.
      Hell, the history book only remember the peaceful MLK speeches- they forget the riots that burned southern towns once he left town. Don’t consider Economics bloodless- every war we ever had really hinged on securing and maintaining markets, from the production advantage of using human slave labor, to the raw materials blockade on Japan that triggered Pearl Harbor.
      
      No one likes a hypocrite, especially one that seems bent on pointing fingers at others. Every aspect of your lifestyle was paid for at the expense of another life. The best one individual can hope to do is accept this sacrifice, and hope to mitigate the damage to others now, and in the future. Let’s take our violent nature, and turn it into something positive, such as pelting unfortunates with the Bill Hicks Banana Bomb (pat pending). Thus endeth the rant: All I wanted to do was make fun of a silly and ultimately useless gun.
    - Niklas
      
      “For feck’s sake, I was making a movie reference.
      
      But since you mention it, let’s look at your lifestyle. If you are an American, every bit of your lifestyle is washed in human blood.”
      
      I failed to see your movie reference, sorry about that, and no, I am not American, but I was born and lives in a country responsible for displacing our own indigenous population. At least USA gave some territory back, we have just come as far as saying that we are sorry for the world’s first racial institute, the forced sterilization of anyone with mental problems, and executions of Noaidi. My country is also responsible for selling the AT4 and the Carl Gustaf weapons to about a third of the world. I am aware that our history are littered with violent acts but content that few acts of violence has brought society forward, most acts of violence has taken society backwards, therefore making violence prevalent and saturating society with violence is a negative thing for society and individuals living in it.
      
      There is a place and time for violence, but (not talking to you now) it should not be the default response that so many seem intent on arguing. That was my point.
    - Niklas
      
      Gonna reply to myself about the movie reference. I only thought the last paragraph was the reference, now Google managed to educate me that the first part was also.
    - Anonymous
      
      Of course, the problems it solves are usually also the result of naked force.

gandalf23

There is some incorrect information being posted.

In the US (I have no idea what the law is in other countries):

On the Federal level (state laws may vary):

A rifle is a firearm that is designed to be fired from the shoulder.
A rifle must have a minimum barrel length of 16 inches
A rifle must have a minimum overall length of 26 inches
A short barreled rifle is a rifle with a barrel length under 16 inches or an overall length under 26 inches. A SBR requires a $200 tax to build and transfer.

A shotgun is a smoothbore firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder.
A shotgun must have a minimum barrel length of 18 inches
A Shotgun must have a minimum overall length of 26 inches
A short barreled shotgun is a shotgun with a barrel length under 18 inches or an overall length under 26 inches. A SBS requires a $200 tax to build and transfer.

A pistol is a non-smoothbore firearm designed to be fired with one hand.
There is no maximum length for a pistol’s barrel.

If a firearm is something else, a smoothbore pisol, or something that does not look like a gun, a flashlight gun or a walking cane gun, then it is an Any Other Weapon. AOWs require a $200 tax to make and a $5 tax to transfer.

A firearm with a bore over half an inch, which covers all 10, 12, 16, 20, and 28 gauge shotguns, unless it is a shotgun which the Attorney General has declared to be suitable for sporting purposes is a Destructive Device. DDs are legal with a $200 tax (and a federal background check and fingerprints and a looong wait), but are not legal for importation for sale to civilians (police and military do get them, and dealers that sale to those groups can import samples).

Since this Taurus pistol was not a shotgun (it was not designed to be fired from the shoulder) it is not a Short Barreled Shotgun. It’s not a pistol since pistols can’t be smoothbore. It could be an Any Other Weapon, or a Destructive Device. Most likely they’d rule it a destructive device since it’s a $200 hot every time it’s transfered rather than $5.

As for why make something like this, or why buy it?

1) Well, I know a fellow who is big into trap (or skeet, I always get them confused). He started out using a 12 gauge, but then, his words, got “bored” being so good, so he switched to 20 gauge to make it more challenging. He now shoots 28 gauge (even smaller) and was thinking of switching to .410 (which is 67 gauge). I imagine he would love something like this as it would be even more challenging to shoot with a pistol than a shotgun.

2) If I were still living in an apartment I would love this for home defense. The 28 gauge will not over penetrate, so there is no worry about a round going through a wall and into the neighbor’s apartment. That is a worry with 12 gauge, and 20 even. Also the pistol, while somewhat unwieldy, is smaller than a shotgun, and more maneuverable, so it’d be easy to lock up in a small safe next to the bed, or keep in a nightstand. Shotguns require much larger safes to store them in. With a revolver you don’t have to worry about loading/pumping the gun to get it to fire, just pull the trigger. Which makes it easier to use under stress.

As for gangstas and whatnots using them, ummm…that would be great. Seriously. It’d be relatively deadly up close, but very quickly the shot will spread out and slow down (short barrel, small size of shot) and become ineffective. So no more shooting Some Dude on the street corner (undoubtedly who was Minding His Own Business) and accidentally killing some kid a block or two away in bed. A long shot with a 28 gauge is 35 yards. And even then it’s not necessarily going to kill a bird at that distance, so I’m guessing people are even safer. Heck, we should be giving these guns to gang bangers!

gandalf23

*hit, not hot.

“Most likely they’d rule it a destructive device since it’s a $200 hit every time it’s transfered rather than $5.”

Kozlow

It looks like a prop from Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

Philboyd Studge

or the live-action version of Sam & Max – Freelance Police.

thecheat

I can see using this for home defense but I can also see having to explain to the intruder that it is actually a REAL gun because it is so cartoonishly large.

I approve of this weapon and would like to own one but it is almost $700 and is probably very expensive to feed.

awjtawjt

“It’s an .88 magnum. It shoots through schools.”

inness

This is thoroughly disgusting *because* it is a cartoon version of a weapon and fully capable of causing death. I’m sure the owners of this type of weapon will argue long and hard (which is likely the only time that term will be used in describing them) that it is their constitutional right to carry one of these in their Acme Oversized Shoulder Holster — Great fun at parties and political rallies!
I’m glad to see ATF taking an interest, because legality is based on caliber, not form. Call it what you will, this is a sawed off shotgun with a pistol grip, a ‘room sweeper’ in the vernacular. Useless for anything other than compensating for male sexual inadequacy.

Small Om

I’d suggest you calm down as this is the equivalent of a concept car in the gun industry. This isn’t a room sweeper because it’s not a true semi-automatic. They make those already and are widely available. If someone wants to break the law and saw them off then they can and do. Hell, a lot of the earlier models like the Winchester M1897 or Ithica M37 don’t have a trigger disconnect which allows you to slamfire them by keeping the trigger depressed and working the pump at high speed.
Small Om

Almost forgot. You’re incorrect about the “form” versus caliber argument. Form is a BIG thing to the ATF. A 12 gauge doublebarrell shotgun with a 16 inch barrel length is legal. As is a 7.62mm(or .308) hunting rifle. If you make either of these things fully automatic then you have to deal with the ATF.

A Remington 700 series bolt action rifle? Complete legal. A M60 Beltfed machine gun? Destructive Device. Exact same caliber but completely different forms. Ithica Model 37 in stock formation? Legal. Sawn off Ithica ala Sam in Supernatural? Destructive Device.
Allen Garvin

“I’m glad to see ATF taking an interest, because legality is based on caliber, not form. Call it what you will, this is a sawed off shotgun with a pistol grip, a ‘room sweeper’ in the vernacular. Useless for anything other than compensating for male sexual inadequacy.”

Man, if I were compensating for male sexual inadequacy, the last thing I would want to use was would be a .410 bore or 28 gauge. That’s only a room-sweeper if you’re trying to clear a room full of squirrels or rabbits.
robohobo

Innes: “fully capable of causing death”

Other things fully capable of causing death:
-cars
-wrenches
-swimming pools
-knives
Please. It’s a gun, not a voodoo doll.

“legality is based on caliber, not form”
No it isn’t. Famous example: the so-called assault weapons ban, which regulated weapons based on form. A rifle could accept detachable magazines and have only one of the following features:
* Folding or telescoping stock
* Pistol grip
* Bayonet mount
* Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel
* a muzzle device which enables the launching or firing of rifle grenades)
(wikipedia)

Nowhere in there is caliber. The AWB had nothing to do with weapon function, only appearance.

“Call it what you will, this is a sawed off shotgun with a pistol grip, a ‘room sweeper’ in the vernacular.”

Well that raises a good question dosen’t it. In order to be a sawed off shotgun, wouldn’t it need to be, you know, sawed? I don’t see any saw marks. Or, you say, it dosen’t meet requirements for minimum barrel length for shotguns. But isn’t it a handgun? Sure looks like one to me. Wouldn’t a shotgun have a stock?

And the very fact that you had to put “room sweeper” in quotes means it isn’t in common use.

Honestly, mutants. For a group of people so all-fired sure people should have access to tools, there is a lot of fud about guns.
- inverts
  
  Yes, many things are capable of causing death. But a knife has a use OTHER than causing death. The sole function of a gun is to kill. It can’t dig a hole, or make you dinner, only kill things.
  - Chris Tucker
    
    The only thing THIS handgun kills is time and your checking account. Match grade .22 target rounds are stupid expensive. As is the Hammerli FP10 at the link.
    
    But, yes. Guns DO kill people.
    
    People who would come to rob, rape, enslave or kill. See southern Somalia as an example of when only the bad guys have weapons.
    
    The Pink Pistols (Gay gun rights and ownership organization) have a motto: “Armed Gays Don’t Get Bashed.”
    
    As for violence never solving anything, well, there’s a whole lot of elderly Jews with numbers tattooed on their arms who would beg to disagree with that statement. Allied forces in WWII used a many metric shittons of violence in the course of liberating Europe and liberating death camps.
    
    Do we have a gun ‘problem’ in the US. Maybe so.
    
    Are YOU helping with your comments. No. Not really.
    - Mister44
      
      re: “The only thing THIS handgun kills is time and your checking account.”
      
      You’re either a much better shot than me, or just like nice toys. I tricked out a Ruger Mark II and it shoots better than I can shoot it.
      
      Oddly enough, it seems to like CCI MiniMags and even Bulk Federal more than the Match Eley.
    - Chris Tucker
      
      Like I could afford a Hammerli!
      
      Those little .22 Rugers are great. Even the stock Mark I is surprisingly good for paper punching.
      
      I’ll take your word on the CCI and Federal. I haven’t bought .22 cartridges in decades.
    - Mister44
      
      The Mark I/II/III and the Browning Buckmaster are both great little .22s. I set my Mark II up for ‘Bullseye’ type shooting. So I have a big ass Volquartsen grip, a Volquarsen hammer that lightened the trigger pull to ‘butter’, an Ultra Dot red dot sight with variable dot size and intensity (It’s what the pros use! Cry once, they say.), and an extended slide release.
      
      My gun is a little weird. I know Ruger makes small batches for various things – promotions, NRA give-aways, etc. so maybe that is why mine is different. It has a 5″ Stainless bull barrel. The grips is stainless, but it is also bead or sand blasted – very finely. The back of the slide/bolt looks like it had mill work done. The ‘ears’ are smooth and there is no Ruger logo on the back. Some of the pins in the grip are chromed, and there is an after market magazine release that is shiny too.
      
      Anyway – I love it – I just don’t get time to shoot lately.
  - siliconsunset
    
    Sometimes things have to die. Most of the time they don’t, but sometimes they do. If someone is threatening your life, the life of someone you care about, or even an innocent person that you have the ability or capacity to help, and you do nothing you are a coward and complicit in the act of violence. Am I saying you should go crazy and shoot everything that looks at you wrong? Of course not. Have a damn spine, though. As much as we want mean and violent things to stop in the world, want alone won’t help. I’m not a God guy, but the saying still applies: “Pray to God, but row to shore.”
    
    You can’t just hope problems away.
    
    Also, in before “NO U”
  - Mister44
    
    This makes no logical sense.
  - robohobo
    
    Guns have many other purposes other than causing death. Much the same way that Bittorrent has many uses other than illegal copyright infringement.
    
    I’ve fired thousands of rounds of ammunition in my life and I have never killed anything. (Except indirectly, by eating meat from the grocery store- and I accidentally ran over a turtle once)
    
    I have a bittorrent client installed and I don’t infringe on copyrights. I own a car that can go fast and I don’t speed. I have a mouth capable of shouting fire in a crowded theater and have never done so. I own a computer capable of doing damn near anything and I can’t recall doing anything particularly bad.

Halloween Jack

Smith & Wesson has a similar gun called the New Governor, which can take three different types of ammo. The gun nut sites that I scanned through that have reviewed it seem to be treating it as a type of joke, with the shotgun shell option really being useless for hitting anything that isn’t very close.

Jason Rizos

“It’s for hunting today’s modern animals, like the flying squirrel and the electric eel” (Lenny, The Simpsons)

Anonymous

I wonder how in Texas we would “conceal” that bad boy. It sure would look nice on my gunrack in the back window of my truck.

Anonymous

@Space Monkey/inness

It’s a rifled weapon capable of firing both 45LC and .410 and it’s not as effective as advertised. Calm down and wait for the a 12 gauge version before you lose your minds.

It’s not capable of “sweeping rooms” in the “vernacular.” They’ve been out for about 4 or 5 years, I’ve fired one and it’s about the same kick as a classic 45 revolver.

InsertFingerHere

Fortunately that orange trigger tag will prevent this weapon from being used in a malicious manner.

bobthecitizen

That’s an inventory tag, orange means “dealer sample. The cable attaching it to the table is what prevents it being stolen, the 500 armed people in the building is what prevents it being used in a malicious manner.

Plus, who buys a $700 gun to rob a liquor store for $20?

When I see a gun, I see a tool, when an anitgunner sees a gun all they think of is killing people. Therefore antigunners shouldn’t be allowed knives, etc as they are obsessed with committing violence.
- Hools Verne
  
  When I see a gun, I see a tool, when an anitgunner sees a gun all they think of is killing people. Therefore antigunners shouldn’t be allowed knives, etc as they are obsessed with committing violence.
  
  I’m for reasonable gun rights in this country, but this argument will never not strike me as ridiculous. When you see a gun, you see a tool? For what purpose exactly?
  - Punchcard
    
    Anecdotal- but I was doing a pollination study on Coast Redwood and needed cones from an upper branch. A ranger was nice enough to shoot off a branch for me with a scoped .22. So…. sample collection device?
  - bobthecitizen
    
    A tool For killing people, duh.
    
    The difference is I use guns for defense, antigunners always mention offense.
    
    I am alive today because I used a gun in self defense, but I have never been tempted to use a gun offensively, every antigun person I hear from mentions offensive use first, those people are disturbed and should not be trusted with lethal force, like guns, pointy sticks or auromobiles.
    - Anonymous
      
      Sure you are, Bob, sure you are. Glad you’re alive to post. Tell me, was your dramatic defense a result of the high noon shootout or the midnight prowler scenario?
      Frankly, I can recall hundreds of episodes where I was glad to be alive ‘because I didn’t need a firearm!’
    - Anonymous
      
      Of course, in some states judges self-defense includes shooting tourists with broken down cars who threaten you by knocking on your door late at night, but let’s not let that make it sound bad.
    - bobthecitizen
      
      I can hardly see why knocking on a door would warrant a lethal response, but I guess I’m just different.
      
      just because corrupt judges rule in favor of murderous jerks or trigger happy cops doesn’t mean that all our rights should be infringed.
      
      Would you give up your right to a computer and web access because spammers misuse it?
    - Anonymous
      
      False equivalency Bob, false equivalency. Typical gun rights folderol.

benenglish

There are always freaky extremes when it comes to handguns. A good example (though absolutely not the biggest or most powerful, despit the text on-site) is here: http://www.vincelewis.net/60magnum.html

Benchrest handguns can stretch the definition of handgun in most peoples minds. Try this one on for size: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/03/radical-wide-benchrest-pistol/

That last one isn’t even a rail gun. I’ve seen (but can’t find any online photos) of unlimited rail gun pistols. Imagine one of these, just shorter: http://mac.uptime.org/mpr/Railguntrophy.jpg

Yep, when you want to talk about outlandish handguns, it’s pretty hard to come up with something that hasn’t already been done.

Anonymous

I apologize, but the Judge is legally imported and sold in .45/410(I have yet to attend a gun show without one present).Here is a link for Gander Mountain, one of MANY US retailers to sell this handgun:

http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?i=GM413209&pdesc=Taurus_Judge_45_LC/_410_Revolver_with_Bobbed_Hammer&aID=510C3&merchID=4006

It was the prototype 28 gauge in the picture that was banned. Please check the facts.

inness

Beautiful attempts at apologetics by the post-apocalyptic wannabe’s, but the fact remains: The pistol simply ‘AIN’T’. It’s a toy, firing a caliber and round which kills things. It appeals to the same mentality who would find wiring a stun gun to a cigarette lighter, but with deadlier results.
The arguments of ‘oh, it’s a small caliber’ and ‘it’s not going to clear a room as fast as I can pump my Remington,’ all obfuscate the point. And sorry lil’ guys, but the ATF DOES care about the type of round shot (although I mispoke when I used the term caliber). A shotgun with a pistol grip is highly illegal, and rightfully so, in a number of places.
It’s time we quit fantasizing about the uses for legal firearms in this country and paid attention to the fact that the types of morons who buy ‘toys’ like these are the types of very people least equipped to use them responsibly. Let the sniping begin. Perhaps the mental exercise will hold off those itchy trigger fingers.

robohobo

So inness, a question. Are you simply opposed to the idea of civilian firearms ownership, period? Your arguments as to this gun’s legality seem more motivated by a strong feeling that firearms owners are irresponsible gutter scum and guns are like the One Ring from LOTR: a sentient, utterly corruptive evil object that answers only to the devil. I’d apologize for exaggerating your point, but I don’t think I’m taking it farther than you are.

Also, the ATF’s rules are not some kind of exhaustive torah spelling out every possible future device that could ever be constructed. They are not. The gun pictured, a prototype by a major manufacturer at an industry trade show, is legal, being a prototype. The ATF essentially makes up the rules as it goes. “It’s better to ask forgiveness than permission”.

Food for thought for those who think the ATF’s regulation make sense: Between September 30th, 2004 and June 25th, 2007, did you own a 14 inch long piece of string?

Because if you did, you owned a machine gun.
- Anonymous
  
  Oh, but you are taking it much farther, a common exaggeration when gun owners/fanciers feel threatened. Guns should not be illegal. We are constitutionally allowed to own guns in the U.S. What is ludicrous and dangerous are the morons who feel they should have the right to own military-grade weapons by the arm loads just in case of 1. Armeggedon, or 2. Their dream celebrity stops by and just shudders with ecstasy at the thought of ‘all those big, powerful weapons’ in their gun safe.
  Tools? Perhaps. But to refer to my original post, this firearm in question is a toy. No weapon should be a toy, period. This doesn’t mean satisfaction can’t come from a firearm’s use. It means the owners should realize they’re not carrying around a hammer or a pair of dice. They’re responsible for a “tool” which, if taken from them (yes, yes, probably from some of their ‘cold, dead hands’ but more likely from their closet shelves while they’re being burgled) can inflict death and destruction on innocent people unfortunate enough to be in their vicinity.
  - robohobo
    
    I assure you, Senor Anon, that 1. There is no such thing as “military grade” anything and 2. Even in the way you mean it, this gun is very much not so-called military grade.
    
    So what is your point. That stupid people who think with the wrong head buy guns? Agreed. That this gun is particularly stupid? Agreed.
    
    Also, I agree with you on other points. I don’t think fully automatic weapons should be easy to get hold of. (They very certainly aren’t.) I don’t think rocket launchers and artillery should be readily available. (They aren’t.) Honestly, I think the level of gun control in the US is about right. DC Vs. Heller, a confirmation of the right to bear arms, provided constitutional justification for “reasonable” firearms regulation. I’m for that. I think that’s pretty much what we have now, honestly. We don’t sell guns to felons, when you buy a gun from a store you get quickly and easily background checked, you can’t carry a rifle in a federal courthouse, etc.
    
    Honestly, I don’t care about this gun specifically. I admit to having a knee-jerk reaction when I feel someone does not respect and wants to take one of my rights. If your point is that the raging judge revolver is kind of stupid, sure. Probly fun to shoot though.

Anonymous

Tackleberry (R.I.P) would’ve loved this!!

Nimdae

A shotgun should never really be used for self defense, particularly outside of the home. It’s just begging for gross negligence resulting in innocent people being hurt even with the best of intentions. I would never advocate the use of a shotgun pistol.

And…really? 28ga pistol? What the hell, Taurus.

Besides this, Taurus makes terrible guns.

Small Om

The Judge is a joke and their advertisements are, in my opinion, criminally negligent. I understand the desire for the product and it’s a cool technical innovation but it’s an idea that just didn’t bear much fruit.
kmoser

I guess you’ve never been the victim of a zombie attack. But seriously, if I wanted a big weapon for self-defense, a shotgun sounds like just the ticket. The caveat is that if innocent people are anywhere near the bad guy(s), it’s always a bad idea to use a gun, even one that shoots a single projectile (e.g. rifle or pistol) unless you’re a trained LEO.
- robohobo
  
  “The caveat is that if innocent people are anywhere near the bad guy(s), it’s always a bad idea to use a gun, even one that shoots a single projectile (e.g. rifle or pistol) unless you’re a trained LEO.”
  
  “Trained LEO my ass”
  
  Honestly most officer’s vaunted “training” is about 20 rounds a year, or about 30 seconds of aimed shooting. Cops as a general rule don’t know anything about guns.
Loraan

Shotguns are actually fantastic for self defense in populated areas, compared to pistols or rifles. Buckshot tends to disperse quickly, which makes its effective (and dangerous) range much less than that of a comparable projectile from a pistol or a rifle. If I had to choose between having a shotgun or a rifle/pistol fired at me from 200 yards away, or through several drywall walls, I’d pick the shotgun every time. A pistol round can be deadly easily 500 yards away, and rifle rounds can be deadly miles away.

desiredusername

We aren’t technologically advanced enough to have non-lethal self defense yet are we?

betatron

I look forward to the forthcoming Magpul Dynamics instructional video…

Patrick Dodds

Even a TSA agent might spot that in your hand luggage.

Anonymous

Here’s the TV spot for the gun. Unfortunately this is NOT legal in CA. Apparently a handgun that fires a shot shell is considered a sawed-off shotgun.

Loraan

The original article is confusing the Judge with the Raging Judge. The pictured firearm is the Raging Judge in 28-gauge, which, according to another blog I read, was deemed at the SHOT show to be illegal for sale in the U.S. The Judge is legal for sale and has been for a few years now. The difference between the two is that the Judge fires .45 LC and .410 shotshells. The Raging Judge comes in several calibers, including 28 gauge shotshells, which is what was deemed illegal.

I’m not an expert on ATF regulations, so take this with a grain of salt, but my belief is that the reason the Judge is legal is that it has a rifled barrel and that is has a caliber of less than .50. Because it has a rifled barrel, it is not a shotgun, therefore it is not a short-barreled shotgun, which would be illegal. Because it has a caliber of less than .50, it is not a destructive device. The 28-gauge Raging Judge seems to fail on both of these counts, although I’m not sure whether it has a rifled barrel or not. It’s a bit of a catch-22, though. A shotgun is allowed to have a caliber of greater than .50, but it is not permitted to have a barrel of less than a certain length (16″, I think). So if the gun is a handgun, it fails because of its excessive caliber. If it’s a shotgun, it fails because of its short barrel.

Although Taurus markets the Judge for self-defense, as many others here have pointed out .410 is a pathetic round for defense. .45 LC is a fine round for defense, as any dead cowboy will tell you, but you could just buy a .45 pistol if that’s what you wanted. The most realistic use for the Judge that I’m aware of is for hikers or foresters who need both defense against snakes (.410 shells) and defense against larger animals (.45 LC) in one gun. Some have also said that shooting skeet with the Judge is a straight hoot, although it doesn’t have much defensive application.

Baldhead

I expecte the point of banning this is, like a saw- off shotgun, the chances of actually hitting what you are aiming at (and, importantly, nothing else) is pretty low. the only safe place to be when someone is shooting this sort of gun is directly behind them.

Anonymous

Here’s the TV spot for the Judge: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWFGsTsNxa8

These are NOT legal in CA because a shotshell-capable handgun is considered a sawed-off shotgun

vinegartom

The BPRD came and asked for Hellboy’s gun back. Hey, you woke up the baby! :P

rebdav

Actually since this never had a shoulder stock it is an Any Other Weapon, $5 transfer tax and months of federal bureaucratic hassle in the US. The sawed off shotgun and rifle rules are the remnants of the loophole buster portions of the 1934 gun control act which in addition to machine guns and silencers was to regulate and tax handguns at the federal level. The handgun regs were cut from the law but the ‘have hacksaw’ loophole busters stayed in.

-a rifle with a barrel cut off under 16″ is a sawed off rifle $200 tax
-a shotgun with a barrel cut off under 18″ is a sawed off shotgun $200 tax
-A rifle or shotgun newly manufactured with or without stock but under 16″ or 18″ barrel respectively is an any other weapon and taxed $5
-A machine gun fires more than one bullet with one trigger pull $200 tax but new weapon registration post 1986 not allowed.
-a destructive device is any weapon over .50 caliber not determined to have sporting purpose, and any rocket, powder propelled, or explosive weapon as determined by the secretary of DHS $200 tax
-A silencer reduces the report below what the should level of an equivalent barrel length would be $200 tax
All but machine guns can get a waiver from federal regulation mostly for being a curio or relic.

Malgwyn

This is why I go to Gun Shows. Gosh, I remember the “Streetsweeper”- a full auto 12 guage shotgun, with a drum of 20 shells.

Nowdays the kids have all kinds of ninja gear. The shear wangular menace of the “Judge” will have a certain appeal. There should be some sort of betting pool for which steroid action hero poses with one first.

benenglish

I believe the Streetsweeper/Striker was barely a semi-auto and only 12 rounds. (The thing is really just a giant revolver with a spring-assist to turn the cylinder, so firearms pedants may argue till the cows come home if it’s best referred to as a semi-auto or revolver.) No matter, it still looks like lotsa fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwC85njIE0k&NR=1

10 years ago, I was actually saving up to get one when the ATF pulled their classification reversal which, naturally, sent prices into the stratosphere and well beyond my reach.

Anonymous

Did anyone else think of Borderlands?

Anonymous

It’s got a rifled bore, so its a pistol (that shoots shot-shells) not a short barreled shotgun (at least, in the eyes of the ATF).

Definitely should be called the “Compensator”

But don’t worry, Taurus is known for crappy quality control and not honoring warrantys (I’m sure the guns will fall apart in no time), and the ballistics of shot-shells out of such a short barrel are spotty at best.

“The Judge” and all of its derivatives are range-toys at best.

muteboy

I’m reminded of Dust Devil’s guns from the comic Top Ten.

Mister44

I’m not sure what the original article was trying to say.

1) That Taurus imported a potentially illegal fire arm?

2) That the firearm Taurus displayed would be illegal to own.

I wouldn’t think it would be the first one. Manufacturers get allowances to create prototypes and displays for weapons that are not legal on the civilian market. (One way around the post-1986 Machine gun ban is to be classified as a manufacturer and then you can make yourself all you want.)

You get some fun things when they play, like Magpuls FMG9
http://www.defensereview.com/magpul-fmg9-prototype-9mm-folding-submachine-gun/
(which is a retake on an older gun)

And this thing from Knights Armament that is just begging for a steady cam rig and a tough as nails latino chick. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/19/knights-armament-chain-saw/

As for the second thing, it may end up as being classified as an AOW or SBS – which would still be legal in most parts – just expensive and require more paperwork. I guess it depends where the ATF wants to decide where it wants to make the line between a pistol and a SBS.

The problem with the ATF, as with a lot of gov. agencies, is they can’t find their dicks with two hands. They are inconsistent in their decisions and more than once have overstepped the word of law. (gov. overstepping its bounds?! Say it ain’t so!)

As for the gun itself – it’s a novelty. Lets be honest, it is hard in this day and age to get something truly ‘new’ in firearms. Something funky can be exciting, even if it isn’t the most practical.

re: “Honestly, mutants. For a group of people so all-fired sure people should have access to tools, there is a lot of fud about guns.”

Don’t be too hard on them. People that didn’t grow up around them have their only exposure from TV news reports, shows, and movies. Most of the time it has bad people doing bad things and it skews their view.

EDIT – I just looked at the blog post and it is back up.

Tony Moore

that looks like a real hand-buster.

absolutely ridiculous. Looks like Hellboy’s pistol, The Samaritan.

All else aside, i’d totally play with that.

-T

pecoto

Just a few points. Guns never made a meal? It’s called HUNTING, and for a lot of poor families it keeps their bellies full when times are hard.

Sure, police officers are generally not required to spend thousands of hours at the range, but get to know some cops. I assure you a healthy portion of them, especially those who come into contact with the most violent side of our society (SWAT, Sherrifs, Narcotics Officers, vice cops) spend a LOT of time at the range (and the gym for that matter) because they know it could mean their lives if they are out of shape, or out of practice.

Shotguns are perhaps the very best gun to own for home protection. Reasons? One, if you load them with appropriate rounds (birdshot, rocksalt, etc.) it will suck to be hit at medium to long range but will not usually be lethal….plus you get the added benefit of the bullets not penetrating the walls of YOUR house and killing your neighbors. In other words, it is SAFER in cases of late night mistaken identity. The other reason is pure intimidation….very few people are crazy/stupid enough to come at you when you are pointing a gun at them with a bore bigger than their thumb. As a nice bonus, if you have a pump shotgun, the pumping sound is perhaps the most intimidating sound in the universe…and thanks to Hollywood movies most people know what it means.

That being said, this is a silly silly weapon. All the disadvantages of pistol with none of the advantages of a shotgun.

Mister44

re: “Shotguns are perhaps the very best gun to own for home protection. Reasons? One, if you load them with appropriate rounds (birdshot, rocksalt, etc.) it will suck to be hit at medium to long range but will not usually be lethal….plus you get the added benefit of the bullets not penetrating the walls of YOUR house and killing your neighbors. In other words, it is SAFER in cases of late night mistaken identity. The other reason is pure intimidation….very few people are crazy/stupid enough to come at you when you are pointing a gun at them with a bore bigger than their thumb. As a nice bonus, if you have a pump shotgun, the pumping sound is perhaps the most intimidating sound in the universe…and thanks to Hollywood movies most people know what it means.”

I am going to have to respectively disagree with you. I do agree with you that they make excellent self defense weapons, one should not use birdshot or salt rock.

If you fire at someone, it is because you are in fear or your life or the life of someone else. Birdshot or rocksalt will not kill and will not stop the threat.

Birdshot and rock salt can maim – and horribly so. You leave yourself wide open to prosecution and civil suits.

You mentioned it would be safer in the case of wrong identity. You are correct, but if you fired your weapon with out identifying your target or what lies beyond it, you have just broken two big rules of using a fire arm. It is 2011, and getting a bright LED flashlight with an on/off switch at the grip is very reasonably priced.

Buckshot is still going to be very safe for your neighbors, unless maybe they are on the opposite side of the wall of a duplex. At any rate, this so rarely happens they don’t even keep statistics on it (that I know of).

Anonymous

Hunter here. A .410 shell is a varmint round. The pattern is so small you can’t take birds with it. The 28 gauge is for birds. It has a nice pattern and low recoil, but it penetrates poorly. Not to say you couldn’t hurt or kill a person with either of these — as with any firearm — but you should all realize we aren’t talking about the 12 gauges you see in the movies.

Anonymous

This is .410 gauge- the same as the handgun the grandfather owned in the book “where the red fern grows”, which he used in the competition at the end of the book. It is nothing new, nor even particularly dangerous.

Anonymous

The established “Judge” pistol is 410/.45LC, but what you see in the picture attached to this post is a bigger model, called the “Raging Judge.” It fires 28-gauge rounds.

It’s an absurd chunk of gun porn, nothing more. It’s good the ATF banned it, to prevent redneck idiots from brandishing it like a cartoon weapon at every opportunity.

The regular Judge, meanwhile, is a pretty decent, medium-frame, close-quarters weapon. The short barrel + lightweight shot = death, out to a range of about, oh… 30 feet or so. Beyond that, you might get some relatively superficial wounds, but nothing too bad. The point is that you could blow away an attacker without also taking down the neighbor’s kids or the other cars in the parking garage and so on.

Moriarty

“30 round handgun clip”

Just FYI, there is no such thing. Those are magazines, not clips. It might sound pedantic (and it is), but gun people won’t take your opinion seriously if you don’t know the basic terminology.

k7aay

‘Scuse me while I whip out my +2 Keyboard of Truth.

The gun is nowhere near that large in real life, but an injudicious (pardon the pun, not) choice of lens focal length and a small model with small hands makes it look incorrectly ginormous.

The .410 shotshell the Taurus Judge was originally designed for is smaller than the .45 caliber which was the GI standard for many decades, and the 28ga shotshell in the 2011 ‘Raging Bull’ version is only .55 caliber.

This is a non-story, especially considering that a shotshell round is less effective than a solid bullet of the same caliber; but, then folks who are close-minded about guns would not know that, so it becomes something to sensationalize.

My 5’1.5″ spouse likes it better than the .357 Magnum I originally gave her. The .410 shotshell is much _less_ effective against Mister Perpetrator than the .45 Long Colt (the round of the iconic Colt Peacmaker) but she likes the idea of the shotshell for greater (ballistic) diversity.

That is, if she doesn’t just follow instinct and go for Hadhafang, Sword of Arwen, and slice-’n-dice Mister Bad Guy.

penguinchris

I was going to say the same thing – the person holding it is a woman, and it doesn’t look like a particularly large woman.

I really don’t know anything about guns, but I do know that the .44 magnum Dirty Harry used in the movies was enormous – probably similarly sized to this. I saw one in a sporting goods store once, and was amazed – then went back and watched one of the movies later, and yeah, it’s enormous there too.

Anonymous

I was just thinking, there is a real lack of guns in this country. What we really need is more hypersensitive guys walking around with the biggest guns they can get.

bobthecitizen

rock salt thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=68997&highlight=rocksalt

Rock salt test:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot33.htm

I keep sellier & bellot Rubber buckshot as the first load in my home defense gun, works on bear too (we have bear problems)

Space Toast

Wasn’t a similar weapon featured in the movie Three Kings?

Chevan

Honestly I think the most telling point here is that all the people who know things about guns think this is a joke.

Also, .410? .410 is tiny, people. .410 is what you give a ten year old to use in his single-shot, barely-a-step-above-a-toy first gun so he can shoot with his parents (which I do recommend, even if you’re not into hunting; sporting clays is VERY fun. Skeet is fun too, but I’m not a fan of wobbles). Seeing a .410 cartridge on the ground, it looks like somebody broke a marker in half.

The problem with this gun is that shotgun rounds HURT if you don’t know how to set the gun right. It’s like the middle movie in a trilogy: it’s stuck in the middle where nothing exciting happens. In order to not snap your wrists in half when you fire, they have to use rounds that are so weak the gun has pretty much no value outside of being a novelty.

Ernunnos

This is not a particularly powerful gun. 28 gauge is smaller than 20 ga. or 12 ga. Nor is it high capacity. Only 5 shots, same as most pump actions. What makes it troublesome in the eyes of the law is its short length. Although cartoonishly large for a handgun, it is essentially a sawed-off shotgun. A small, low-powered shotgun.

I don’t see much point to this. It’s too big to carry, and if you’re not going to carry it anyway, you might as well move up to a larger (and legal) 20 ga. But image is everything, in law and in marketing. And on BoingBoing. Would anyone post a picture of a common $300 pistol-gripped 20 ga pump?

erissian

I am the law.

bobthecitizen

Where are people buying this rocksalt ammunition? Box o truth tested them and found they are basically viable at between 0 – 10 inches, not feet, inches. At castboolits there is a huge thread, wherein folks are attempting to make a rocksalt round theat works. This is one of those “heat seeking bullets” things.

You’re watching to much TV folks. When antigunners talk on the subject and can’t get the terminology even close they are seen as trolls, 12 year olds, or too ignorant to be regarded as valid.

This gun is a novelty, the size is all in the lens, the 28 gauge is antiquated and considered useless, why don’t you guys go to kitten bonsai and weep for the horror of it?

(replied to, but not directed at, mister44)

Mister44

Those poor, poor kittens.

While on the subject of movie myths, dimes in a shot gun are shit as well. If you are planning on using silver dimes to stop werewolves, you need to re-think your strategy.

Can you link to the thread about people trying to make rock salt rounds? That sounds entertaining.

technogeek

America has clearly lost it initiative — we don’t even remember how to saw off our own shotguns.

Revolver that fires shotgun shells

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