Comments on: Voynich manuscript dated to early renaissance http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:59:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1025804 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1025804 Okay, I'm an amateur cryptologist, and while the translation is nowhere near complete, I think I have several key versus down. Pending my publication, I won't release all of the translated material, but I will give a sampling. Due to the differences of the languages being used, it may read "oddly". Here goes: In A.D. 1476 War was beginning. Captain: What happen ? Mechanic: Somebody set up us the bomb. Operator: We get signal. Captain: What ! Operator: Main screen turn on. Captain: It's You !! Cats: How are you gentlemen !! Cats: All your base are belong to us. Cats: You are on the way to destruction. Captain: What you say !! Cats: You have no chance to survive make your time. Cats: HA HA HA HA .... Captain: Take off every 'zig' !! Captain: You know what you doing. Captain: Move 'ZIG'. Captain: For great justice. Okay, I’m an amateur cryptologist, and while the translation is nowhere near complete, I think I have several key versus down. Pending my publication, I won’t release all of the translated material, but I will give a sampling. Due to the differences of the languages being used, it may read “oddly”. Here goes:

In A.D. 1476
War was beginning.
Captain: What happen ?
Mechanic: Somebody set up us the bomb.
Operator: We get signal.
Captain: What !
Operator: Main screen turn on.
Captain: It’s You !!
Cats: How are you gentlemen !!
Cats: All your base are belong to us.
Cats: You are on the way to destruction.
Captain: What you say !!
Cats: You have no chance to survive make your time.
Cats: HA HA HA HA ….
Captain: Take off every ‘zig’ !!
Captain: You know what you doing.
Captain: Move ‘ZIG’.
Captain: For great justice.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1026316 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1026316 One of the plants in the illustrations that i reckognize is hemp-cannabis. I believe the manuscript is written for magical-plant thinking shamanism and such,where symbolism does the talking. But thats just one of many a opinion. One of the plants in the illustrations that i reckognize is hemp-cannabis.
I believe the manuscript is written for magical-plant thinking
shamanism and such,where symbolism does the talking.
But thats just one of many a opinion.

]]> By: jphilby http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1025300 jphilby Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1025300 This lady www.edithsherwood.com/ may be on to something ... but whether she is, it's a very interesting read. Unlike almost everything else on the VM. Which Voynich bought a century ago next year. It'd be interesting to see the technology unleashed on the Archimedes palimpsest applied to the VM. It might pay off in many ways. This lady
http://www.edithsherwood.com/
may be on to something … but whether she is, it’s a very interesting read. Unlike almost everything else on the VM. Which Voynich bought a century ago next year.

It’d be interesting to see the technology unleashed on the Archimedes palimpsest applied to the VM. It might pay off in many ways.

]]> By: Oskar http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1025053 Oskar Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1025053 I just can't buy into it being a hoax. It makes sense for something like the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beale_cipher">Beale ciphers</a> to be hoaxes: it'd take you an afternoon at most to fake them, and they were widely published from the start. But why in the world would anyone go to these <i>insane</i> lengths to make a document full of gibberish, and then try and keep it a secret. Remember, the early history of it is virtually unknown, it basically starts in the 17th century, 200 years after it was probably written. Presumably, if you wanted to do it as a hoax and fool people, you'd spread it as far and wide as you could. And again, it would have taken probably years of work to produce. The hoax theory just don't make any sense! No, the text means something all right. Some (probably slightly mad) person or society invented a language, and this is all that remains. God, I really hope they crack it in my lifetime. I just can’t buy into it being a hoax. It makes sense for something like the Beale ciphers to be hoaxes: it’d take you an afternoon at most to fake them, and they were widely published from the start. But why in the world would anyone go to these insane lengths to make a document full of gibberish, and then try and keep it a secret. Remember, the early history of it is virtually unknown, it basically starts in the 17th century, 200 years after it was probably written. Presumably, if you wanted to do it as a hoax and fool people, you’d spread it as far and wide as you could. And again, it would have taken probably years of work to produce. The hoax theory just don’t make any sense!

No, the text means something all right. Some (probably slightly mad) person or society invented a language, and this is all that remains. God, I really hope they crack it in my lifetime.

]]> By: DrPretto http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1025322 DrPretto Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1025322 My take on this, a little Occam's Razor: I agree that it should be a fake language, if people depicted dresses in fashion of european XV century, it should have at least something in common with at least one european language written at that time, but that's not the case, other interesting thing is some words are repeated at least 3 times consecutively. All this makes me think as an artificial language written by someone with a psychiatric pathology manifested as a kind of written neologisms in a language only known to that person's mind. I have known patients that if you give them a pen and paper, they can write an incredible amount of incomprehensible words, related to their pathology. Do you really think those people sentenced to death by the church inquisition because of heresy, were real witches and wizards? Maybe they were schizophrenic or suffered epilepsy, psychiatric pathologies exist since we exist as humans, remember Caligula? My take on this, a little Occam’s Razor:
I agree that it should be a fake language, if people depicted dresses in fashion of european XV century, it should have at least something in common with at least one european language written at that time, but that’s not the case, other interesting thing is some words are repeated at least 3 times consecutively. All this makes me think as an artificial language written by someone with a psychiatric pathology manifested as a kind of written neologisms in a language only known to that person’s mind. I have known patients that if you give them a pen and paper, they can write an incredible amount of incomprehensible words, related to their pathology. Do you really think those people sentenced to death by the church inquisition because of heresy, were real witches and wizards? Maybe they were schizophrenic or suffered epilepsy, psychiatric pathologies exist since we exist as humans, remember Caligula?

]]> By: BrendanBabbage http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1025589 BrendanBabbage Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1025589 I'd like to get the guy who decries this as a hoax and have him star in a movie, say a historical drama around the time of Rome during the 5 bad emperors... He's practicing his lines, and too late finds out it's a re-creation of a certain movie made by the late Bob Guccione... About the Emperor Gaius Germanicus Caesar... And he plays "The Groom"...!!! I truly hate intellectual snits like this. If they had balls they'd de-bunk major lies, but people have religions around those. So they go around hassling things like "paranormal" thinking it's nothing but tinfoil hat people they can harass or at least have the police avenge them if someone shoves an "Atlantean Crystal Rod" where the sun don't shine... Frankly, from looking at a few pages I'm sure the V script is genuine. I've looked into alchemy and it's got too much symbolism in the images to be faked by a low end charlatan. And the high end "Charlatans" aka Cagliostro, Don Juan, perhaps not a Chralatan St. Germain would have put something for real in such a work... Looking at it, I have to turn away. I fear I'll become obsessed with it. I think I could eventually figure it out, but IMO it's not worth the time to me. IMO again, it's just some long forgotten "Alchemist's Journal". He kept his notes in code so the "Good Christians" had less evidence to mutilate and kill him for. Once he died his secrets were lost with him. But, unlocking those "Secrets" would likely only reveal a bunch of the same "Alchemy" stuff that was already circulating around, not some revolutionary formula or mystic knowledge, etc. I’d like to get the guy who decries this as a hoax and have him star in a movie, say a historical drama around the time of Rome during the 5 bad emperors… He’s practicing his lines, and too late finds out it’s a re-creation of a certain movie made by the late Bob Guccione… About the Emperor Gaius Germanicus Caesar… And he plays “The Groom”…!!!

I truly hate intellectual snits like this. If they had balls they’d de-bunk major lies, but people have religions around those. So they go around hassling things like “paranormal” thinking it’s nothing but tinfoil hat people they can harass or at least have the police avenge them if someone shoves an “Atlantean Crystal Rod” where the sun don’t shine…

Frankly, from looking at a few pages I’m sure the V script is genuine. I’ve looked into alchemy and it’s got too much symbolism in the images to be faked by a low end charlatan. And the high end “Charlatans” aka Cagliostro, Don Juan, perhaps not a Chralatan St. Germain would have put something for real in such a work…

Looking at it, I have to turn away. I fear I’ll become obsessed with it. I think I could eventually figure it out, but IMO it’s not worth the time to me.

IMO again, it’s just some long forgotten “Alchemist’s Journal”. He kept his notes in code so the “Good Christians” had less evidence to mutilate and kill him for. Once he died his secrets were lost with him. But, unlocking those “Secrets” would likely only reveal a bunch of the same “Alchemy” stuff that was already circulating around, not some revolutionary formula or mystic knowledge, etc.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1025083 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1025083 The curious may compare, for amusement and edification, Codex Seraphinianus Also, author of: "completely made up...bath slides of naked ladies" should just kill himself. The curious may compare, for amusement and edification, Codex Seraphinianus

Also, author of:

“completely made up…bath slides of naked ladies”

should just kill himself.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1025084 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1025084 There is a cool story about this at Daily Science Fiction. There is a cool story about this at Daily Science Fiction.

]]> By: Buckets McGaughey http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1025603 Buckets McGaughey Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1025603 Nah. Who'd give a child a fortune's worth of vellum to go mad with? Nah. Who’d give a child a fortune’s worth of vellum to go mad with?

]]> By: jetsetsc http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1025096 jetsetsc Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1025096 It looks a lot like art made by schizophrenics. There was an exhibition at the Visionary Art Museum in Baltimore a few years back that included some amazingly detailed works, many of which included a lot of writing that meant nothing (to anyone but the artist). I was impressed by attempts to diagram and show the order of some inner and outer world, in ways that make no sense, but have a lot of thought and effort put into them. It looks a lot like art made by schizophrenics. There was an exhibition at the Visionary Art Museum in Baltimore a few years back that included some amazingly detailed works, many of which included a lot of writing that meant nothing (to anyone but the artist). I was impressed by attempts to diagram and show the order of some inner and outer world, in ways that make no sense, but have a lot of thought and effort put into them.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1025369 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1025369 So, this is a book containing pictures of creatures and plants that don't exist; accompanied by text that no one can understand? Is it just me, or is this clearly the world's first roleplaying game? So, this is a book containing pictures of creatures and plants that don’t exist; accompanied by text that no one can understand?

Is it just me, or is this clearly the world’s first roleplaying game?

]]> By: AnthonyC http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1025890 AnthonyC Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1025890 See the xkcd comic linked to above See the xkcd comic linked to above

]]> By: genre slur http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1024868 genre slur Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1024868 Voynich or BUST. No hoax there. Lookin' mighty internal-alchemy, in fact... Voynich or BUST.
No hoax there. Lookin’ mighty internal-alchemy, in fact…

]]> By: jjsaul http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1024871 jjsaul Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1024871 Discovered faded on inner flap: "Property of Enoch Root" Discovered faded on inner flap:

“Property of Enoch Root”

]]> By: jfrancis http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1024872 jfrancis Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1024872 But what is the lettering doing on this NSFW image? More than coincidence? http://www.digitalartform.com/assets_c/2009/03/Apnea_Knives_sfw_v04-thumb-512x682-4.jpg But what is the lettering doing on this NSFW image? More than coincidence?

http://www.digitalartform.com/assets_c/2009/03/Apnea_Knives_sfw_v04-thumb-512×682-4.jpg

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1024878 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1024878 If you want to read a really great story about the voynich manuscript, try PopCo by Scarlett Thomas. Actually Boing Boing ought to pay attention to Scarlett, she's a happy mutant if there ever was one. If you want to read a really great story about the voynich manuscript, try PopCo by Scarlett Thomas. Actually Boing Boing ought to pay attention to Scarlett, she’s a happy mutant if there ever was one.

]]> By: Gloster http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1024882 Gloster Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1024882 Obligatory - http://xkcd.com/593/ Obligatory – http://xkcd.com/593/

]]> By: Methusedalot http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1024889 Methusedalot Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1024889 I know the writing has never been deciphered, but does anyone know if the plants in the illustrations have ever been identified? I know the writing has never been deciphered, but does anyone know if the plants in the illustrations have ever been identified?

]]> By: planettom http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1024895 planettom Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1024895 For Halloween 2009 I went as Ash from EVIL DEAD/ARMY OF DARKNESS, and I made a Necronomicon. I printed pages of the Voynich manuscript on parchment paper http://planettom.livejournal.com/292023.html because it seemed like a good stand-in for the Necronomicon! For Halloween 2009 I went as Ash from EVIL DEAD/ARMY OF DARKNESS, and I made a Necronomicon.

I printed pages of the Voynich manuscript on parchment paper http://planettom.livejournal.com/292023.html because it seemed like a good stand-in for the Necronomicon!

]]> By: Snig http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1024903 Snig Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1024903 You guys can't make out the words? It says pretty clearly "You, Snig, have been chosen to embark on a quest of extraordinary danger and intrigue that will shape the fate of several worlds. You will swing from ropes a lot, find you're unusually adept at punching people and get to kiss interesting attractive women. First steal this book..." You guys can’t make out the words? It says pretty clearly “You, Snig, have been chosen to embark on a quest of extraordinary danger and intrigue that will shape the fate of several worlds. You will swing from ropes a lot, find you’re unusually adept at punching people and get to kiss interesting attractive women. First steal this book…”

]]> By: Dv Revolutionary http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1024914 Dv Revolutionary Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1024914 The plants have not been identified. They have very little to do with real plants. They appear to be completely made up like the lettering and the bath slides of naked ladies and like the fold out cosmology section. All of it screams to me that it was the long labor of a very active imagination. The plants have not been identified. They have very little to do with real plants. They appear to be completely made up like the lettering and the bath slides of naked ladies and like the fold out cosmology section. All of it screams to me that it was the long labor of a very active imagination.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1025171 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1025171 Yup-that's what I have always thought the Voynich was-"Art Brut" by a mad monk alone somewhere or something similar. Take a generous enough amount of your favorite hallucinogen and a non-mad person may be able to "translate" it.... he he he o_O Yup-that’s what I have always thought the Voynich was-”Art Brut” by a mad monk alone somewhere or something similar. Take a generous enough amount of your favorite hallucinogen and a non-mad person may be able to “translate” it…. he he he o_O

]]> By: The Archaeologist http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1024919 The Archaeologist Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1024919 I'm no expert on early bookmaking, but it seems to me that they've just dated the vellum (or rather, assigned a death date to the poor sheep), not the writing of the manuscript itself. So, if the vellum was made, and then left lying around for a while, it's still possible that the manuscript was written later. I’m no expert on early bookmaking, but it seems to me that they’ve just dated the vellum (or rather, assigned a death date to the poor sheep), not the writing of the manuscript itself. So, if the vellum was made, and then left lying around for a while, it’s still possible that the manuscript was written later.

]]> By: Resuna http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1024928 Resuna Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1024928 That was my first thought, too. Have they established it wasn't a palimpsest, even? That was my first thought, too. Have they established it wasn’t a palimpsest, even?

]]> By: howaboutthisdangit http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1024930 howaboutthisdangit Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1024930 Clearly this is a Renaissance-era copy of an Elven formulary left over from a much earlier age. Clearly this is a Renaissance-era copy of an Elven formulary left over from a much earlier age.

]]> By: oasisob1 http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1024940 oasisob1 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1024940 What writing? What writing?

]]> By: splint http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1024944 splint Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1024944 The first known owner was Holy Roman Emperor Rudolf II (1552-1612), so we know it's at least that old. http://www.voynich.net/ The first known owner was Holy Roman Emperor Rudolf II (1552-1612), so we know it’s at least that old.

http://www.voynich.net/

]]> By: Gilbert Wham http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1024948 Gilbert Wham Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1024948 Wait, naked ladies aren't real? Wait, naked ladies aren’t real?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1025221 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1025221 Ok, I like the last two explanations. There was one theory out there that said it might have been created by DaVinci as a child. The words are mostly stylized anagrams of Italian words for local plants with some mis-spellings. This is one of the more plausible but still dramatic stories of its origin. Its consistent with the carbon dating too. Ok, I like the last two explanations.

There was one theory out there that said it might have been created by DaVinci as a child. The words are mostly stylized anagrams of Italian words for local plants with some mis-spellings. This is one of the more plausible but still dramatic stories of its origin. Its consistent with the carbon dating too.

]]> By: Snig http://boingboing.net/2011/02/11/voynich-manuscript-d.html#comment-1024970 Snig Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1024970 Naked ladies didn't exist back then, they only started showing up after we invented the internet. Naked ladies didn’t exist back then, they only started showing up after we invented the internet.

]]>