http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2010/12/07/secret-gop-plan-push-states-to-declare-bankruptcy-and-smash-unions/

Good government, eh? Better government by dishonesty.

So, whether the protests succeed or not, this wouldn’t be a case of public employees getting special treatment. So what were you talking about when you brought it up in #22?

Special treatment in regards to the notion that the government is never allowed to change its employment policies. Many people think these changes are somehow illegal to even bring up.

Special treatment because this particular employer faces no market pressures. It’ll never go out of business, no matter how generous it is.

Special treatment in how easy it is to game the system. Political donations, etc.

Not to mention monopoly power. These are vital public services. If Ford’s workers go on strike, who cares? Ford’s management mostly. Public employees going on strike is like holding the population hostage. It can even be dangerous if it’s the police or firefighters. That’s a lot of leverage.

I’m sure there’s other aspects I’m missing, but the biggest proof is the fact that huge public debts and large unfunded outlays were run up for years before we even started talking about changing the system. That’s an absurd amount of momentum.

Regardless of whether the American electoral process legitimizes Walker’s power

its not regardless … the american (or in this case, wisconsin) electoral process is the only reason why Walker has any power at all over the things he is trying to control. his power is not legitimized by this process, it is created by it, as it should be.

you might want to insist that if it wasn’t for Walker, it would have been some other right wing ingrate trying to do the same thing. at which point, i think you either have to fall back on one of three options:

1) the classic (and boring and not necessarily untrue) marxist notion of “false consciousness” on the part of the the WI voting population

2) stupidity on the part of a majority of the WI voting population

3) Walker (and the rest of the right wing) lied

I’m not familiar enough with his election campaign to know if (3) is a clear winner, though its entirely believable.

People are not sick and tired enough – they repeatedly vote for people who come from a party and a movement with a clear history of screwing people like them. Frank’s “What’s the matter with Kansas?” explores some reasons for this (at excessive length).

I’m just not willing to equate the anger at the outcome of a bunch of your (sort of) neighbours continually voting right wing lying greedy scum into office with the anger felt by people in the middle east. You might feel like the rich and powerful are screwing you or others over here in the US, and I don’t think you’re wrong. But the nature of what being “screwed over” means here and there are so qualitatively different that I just don’t think its useful or respectful to link them.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/americas/elderly-womans-daily-pizza-habit-may-have-saved-her-life-police/article1915810/

They left out the most important part of the whole story!

What was on the pizza?

the comparison is missing a few reality doses

Seriously? You think school teachers get high pay? In any state? NO ONE MAKES MONEY TEACHING SCHOOL.

Those who are in it for the money can be found on Wall Street. And that’s where the blame for bankrupt states lies. Not in the paychecks of low-paid state employees.

I’m not sure if it’s the Chicago or the NYC part of me that is going into an apoplectic fit.

but please, get a better picture! smores pizza? that’s disgusting and i think it’s insulting to the fine pizza from Ians. this has an international audience. don’t let them think that wisconsin pizza is that gross (won’t someone think about the cheese!!!??!)

Their pay is very high, their performance is poor (1 in 3 eighth graders read at an 8th grade level there), and their state is broke.

Their pay is very high, their performance is poor (1 in 3 eighth graders read at an 8th grade level there), and their state is broke.”

So, wait, what you’re saying is that because their teachers’ performance is allegedly poor the majority of public employee unions should lose most of their collective bargaining rights?

At least that was the issue i thought is the primary reason for the protests.

i’m not really seeing the logic there.

(Don’t have my login info with me so i’m posting anonymously.)

What happened? Well, the new governor and state congress passed $150M worth of tax cuts for Walmart and a few other anational corporations.

That’s where the budget deficit came from.

It’s public record but Walmart buys ads on TV stations and school teachers and firemen don’t so the idiot box won’t report it.

1. The state employee unions are willing to accept the concessions towards health care and pensions, as long their collective bargaining rights are preserved. Governor Walker has refused to consider negotiations

2. The starting pay for wisconsin teachers is 25K 49th in the nation, with the average salary being 46K hardly a high paycheck

3. Wisconsin has some of the best performing schools in the country, the exception being in Milwaukee which coincidentally has had a long running voucher program.

Wisconsin is broke though, that still doesn’t justify Walker’s ham-handed tactics

http://teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

The situation in Egypt, in Tunisia, in Yemen, in Libya has nothing in common with WI except that people are out protesting about something they are upset about. I’m all for solidarity, but to suggest that there’s something in common about these situations does a tremendous disservice to what the protestors in the middle east and northern africa are actually doing. It might make for good writing copy to compare the elected governor of WI to Mubarak, and it might even be that Walker would actually enjoy having the kind of power that Mubarak had, but it is, at this time, an utterly false comparison.

I hope that the good folks in Madison enjoy the pizza!

If certain groups or policies can’t survive a reasonably balanced budget then perhaps it’s time they were brought back in line with reality.

It’s not like affected states can’t raise taxes to cover the shortfall anyway. It’s a well known fact that raising taxes on the rich has zero effect on the economy.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/documents/2011/02/afl-cio-wisc-polling-memo.php?page=1

And what’s this? The Government of Wisconsin has cut off internet access for the protesters? How unlike Egypt!

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/02/22/wisconsin.budget/index.html

Perhaps Walker like may American authoritarian politicians, it seems, actually rather liked Mubarak and were sorry he had to go. Birds of a feather.

As for pay rates, I’d say that higher pay is at least somewhat counteracted by not being able to fire bad teachers (unless they break a law).

Some rabble rouser should found a competing teacher’s union and sue the government for discrimination. That’d be fun.

Back on topic to the article, claiming solidarity with middle-east protesters might backfire. I mean, these aren’t really comparable situations.