State Dept. rep: "What is happening to Manning is ridiculous, counterproductive and stupid"

"I spent 26 years in the air force. What is happening to Manning is ridiculous, counterproductive and stupid, and I don't know why the DoD is doing it. Nevertheless, Manning is in the right place." — P.J. Crowley, US State Department.

• [rrot]

  The forced nudity is blatantly retaliatory.

  Manning mocked the previously-existing “protection” regime, saying basically “Yeah, this BS is all for my protection. Right. I could off myself with my flipflops and underwear if I wanted to, you tools.”

  And the tools said “We don’t appreciate your lip, boy. No underwear for you. See how you like that, son.”

  Other explanations for what happened are *entirely* unconvincing.

• [elbowling]

  In another case(http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/50168.html Feds seized phone records and credit reports of NY Times reporter James Risen, in an a effort to convict former CIA agent Jeff Sterling and create precedent for an indictment of Assange:

  “Sterling’s lawyers also filed a series of other motions challenging several counts of the indictment as duplicative. Some also sought to punish Sterling for acts he did not commit, such as Risen’s publication of the book…”

  The Obama administration is taking extreme measures that violate civil rights to expose rather than protect sources and turn whistleblowers into criminals, (not-so-surprisingly) the opposite of what candidate Obama promised when it was expedient to blame Bush for bad outcomes in the Iraq war.

• [awjtawjt]

  It’s excessive.

• [Scrog Bot]

  Personally I think his treatment sounds a little harsh. However, when you join the military you agree to play by their rules which are at least a little different from rules for private citizens. He knew what the army did to Iraqi prisoners at Abu Gharib and Gitmo before he signed up, he knew they can and do treat people like animals.

  Remember that he was in the process of being kicked out before his arrest and was demoted for attacking another soldier. The Army trusted him with their secrets and he did his best to screw them, repeatedly, you can understand why they are really mad. So I’m suprised when people expect him to be treated like a citizen involved in white collar crime.

  If you are responsible for the safety of someone with a lot of media attention that knows he is going to be imprisoned for most or the rest of his life and that fellow soldiers that are already in trouble hate him, what would you do?

  Whether you agree with his desire to expose crimes or not, he picked a fight with some of the toughest people in the world. Nobody should be surprised about this.

• [Anonymous]

  If Manning were a fraternity pledge and this were hazing, the fraternity’s national office would disavow the chapter he was pledging and the national media would be accusing his captors of sexual violence.

  Manning is being tortured. Pre-trial.

• [jimkirk]

  If Manning were a Prisoner of War his treatment would violate the Geneva Conventions.

• [Anonymous]

  walk like an egyptian

  or nothing you say will matter

• [Anonymous]

  “I spent 26 years in the air force. What is happening to Manning is illegal, degrading and cruel, and I know exactly why the DoD is doing it. Nevertheless, Manning is in the right place to be tortured and I will do nothing about it.”

  Fixed it.

• [Anonymous]

  I spent nine years as an active duty Army officer, and what is happening to Manning is NOT ridiculous.

  It’s called pre-trial confinement (civilian equivalent is being held without bail) which must be justified, otherwise he would simply be in his unit as normal or in a holding detachment somewhere.

  I would be surprised to find out that the ultimate justification in his case is something besides “for his own protection”.

  Consider what happens to individuals accused or convicted of certain classes of particular disgusting crimes in the general populations of the prison system.

  Compare that to the likely reaction of uniformed service members and for that matter civilians who feel betrayed by his (alleged) actions, and I think you will see that is it reasonable to believe he is in danger, and to protect him.

  The mechanism to protect those in his position is pre-trial confinement.

  Red

  • [emmdeeaych]

    sigh. And the reason that he is denied exercise? What good can that do? Does that aid his readiness state, assuming -like the rulebook says to – that he is innocent?

  • [Anonymous]

    Where does forcing him to sleep and parade naked come into the ‘for his own protection’ argument? Are civilian inmates routinely humiliated in like this in ‘eye for an eye’ style vendettas? “You embarrassed us so now we’re going to do the same to you” – is that how the US armed forces work, or is it just this particular facility that’s making up it’s own laws as it goes along.

  • [Anonymous]

    I’m liking Crowley more and more, even if he doesn’t want a nfz for libya (tho I can see his reasons for doing so)

    There’s no reason why solitary needed to be kept for sooo long, and I’m sure right to a speedy trial still applies to military personal. Its shameful they waited until Frontline’s interview with Mannings father to bring up charges

• [Matt Cornell]

  I wonder if he’s conveyed these sentiments to his boss.

  Also, Crowley says: “…do we expect that people will release Google’s search engine algorithms? The formula for Coca Cola? Some things are best kept secret.”

  I’m curious, folks. How bad would it be if these secrets were leaked?

• [Ugly Canuck]

  My own feeling is that pre-trial custody ought to be strictly minimized, so that it happens only where there is a real risk of harm to the public, or of the flight of the offender.

  Mr Manning, however, is here subject to a military code of justice.

  Whether or not that circumstance forms an exception, or otherwise makes a difference, in the general principles for holding a body before trial; or at least, whether it is just that there be any such exception or difference due to it being a “military matter”, is not a matter entirely free from reasonable debate.

• [Ugly Canuck]

  For telling the truth is the highest of all virtues; and freedom is the greatest of all possessions.

  • [Anonymous]

    Also “in times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act,” but you already knew that.

    • [Ugly Canuck]

      I did not say that telling the truth is an easy virtue.

      Experience teaches that anything truly worthwhile presents some difficulty in its achievement.

      That’s life.