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	<title>Comments on: Japan nuclear crisis: Where are the&#160;robots?</title>
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	<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html</link>
	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: OldBrownSquirrel</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058304</link>
		<dc:creator>OldBrownSquirrel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058304</guid>
		<description>Suppose hose-wielding robots had been stored on site.  Would they still be in working order after the tsunami? How would they be getting their power in the event of a long-running emergency?  They don&#039;t have power at the plant, which is the heart of the problem, and at the rate that water is boiling off, they&#039;ll need to operate hoses for a long time.

It might make more sense to have back-up pumps powered by the heat difference, Stirling engines or something similar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suppose hose-wielding robots had been stored on site.  Would they still be in working order after the tsunami? How would they be getting their power in the event of a long-running emergency?  They don&#8217;t have power at the plant, which is the heart of the problem, and at the rate that water is boiling off, they&#8217;ll need to operate hoses for a long time.</p>
<p>It might make more sense to have back-up pumps powered by the heat difference, Stirling engines or something similar.</p>
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		<title>By: PhysicsGuy</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058817</link>
		<dc:creator>PhysicsGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058817</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m appalled at how so many seem to oversimplify: &quot;Some solution was know to exist to some vaguely similar problem at some other time under some other conditions - therefore it should work here and now&quot;. Sigh. 

&quot;Radiation&quot; refers to all sorts of different particles, of differing types and different energies. The calculations of what is required to completely stop all of the radiation from any widely mixed source such as this is quite simple: a nearly infinite amount of material. Surprised? That&#039;s because I used the absolute &quot;completely stop&quot;. The much more practical question is how much shielding is necessary to reduce the level to some acceptable (comparable to natural background) levels. - Now there the answer gets amazingly complex. As others have pointed out above, as you put in more material to stop high energy gammas, that in turn produces scattered radiation of lower energies, and additional x-ray emissions as well as the aforementioned &quot;braking radiation&quot;. Suffice it to say that the thick steel and concrete is a reasonable start, so shielding people and electronics becomes difficult.

To answer Mister44, ionizing radiation will cause unexpected (often tiny) groups of electrons to be released inside the electrical circuits at unexpected times and places - that gets them all &quot;confused&quot; since usually everything is so orderly inside computers and such. So its not short circuits but more like bits changing from 1 to 0 or vice-versa. Robots don&#039;t work well when confused. Yes there are ways that satellites and high-reliability systems deal with the inevitable bit-flips that occur all the time - but those are not the usual robot applications. Bomb-disposal robot makers would never invest in extreme rad-hard systems and architectures because the market is (was?) nearly zero dollars for that specialization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m appalled at how so many seem to oversimplify: &#8220;Some solution was know to exist to some vaguely similar problem at some other time under some other conditions &#8211; therefore it should work here and now&#8221;. Sigh. </p>
<p>&#8220;Radiation&#8221; refers to all sorts of different particles, of differing types and different energies. The calculations of what is required to completely stop all of the radiation from any widely mixed source such as this is quite simple: a nearly infinite amount of material. Surprised? That&#8217;s because I used the absolute &#8220;completely stop&#8221;. The much more practical question is how much shielding is necessary to reduce the level to some acceptable (comparable to natural background) levels. &#8211; Now there the answer gets amazingly complex. As others have pointed out above, as you put in more material to stop high energy gammas, that in turn produces scattered radiation of lower energies, and additional x-ray emissions as well as the aforementioned &#8220;braking radiation&#8221;. Suffice it to say that the thick steel and concrete is a reasonable start, so shielding people and electronics becomes difficult.</p>
<p>To answer Mister44, ionizing radiation will cause unexpected (often tiny) groups of electrons to be released inside the electrical circuits at unexpected times and places &#8211; that gets them all &#8220;confused&#8221; since usually everything is so orderly inside computers and such. So its not short circuits but more like bits changing from 1 to 0 or vice-versa. Robots don&#8217;t work well when confused. Yes there are ways that satellites and high-reliability systems deal with the inevitable bit-flips that occur all the time &#8211; but those are not the usual robot applications. Bomb-disposal robot makers would never invest in extreme rad-hard systems and architectures because the market is (was?) nearly zero dollars for that specialization.</p>
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		<title>By: sally599</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058562</link>
		<dc:creator>sally599</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058562</guid>
		<description>Oops, error in my comment about the shielding, iodine is a weak gamma emitter and does not need 12 inches of lead(that&#039;s for sodium, which I work with, which would be much worse, due to the 12 year half life as compared to 8 days)  (Re:Maggie&#039;s comments about experts)

Still it&#039;s important to note that shielding is not a perfect solution, reductions in time and distance (especially distance) are also required. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, error in my comment about the shielding, iodine is a weak gamma emitter and does not need 12 inches of lead(that&#8217;s for sodium, which I work with, which would be much worse, due to the 12 year half life as compared to 8 days)  (Re:Maggie&#8217;s comments about experts)</p>
<p>Still it&#8217;s important to note that shielding is not a perfect solution, reductions in time and distance (especially distance) are also required. </p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1059333</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1059333</guid>
		<description>If electronics are incredibly difficult to rely on, the only other option for a machine, would be to use purely mechanical parts.  But you&#039;d have a lot of tubes running out the back of the robot.  Even if the tubes were bundled in one giant sleeve, that&#039;s a lot of parts that could fail.  Still, it&#039;s an idea.

The &quot;camera&quot; would be a bundle of fiber optic filaments.  The wheels would be spun by pneumatic fluid inside.  All of the parts would be actuated by fluid or air.

I can&#039;t even back up my vacuum cleaner without it becoming tangled in the power cord.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If electronics are incredibly difficult to rely on, the only other option for a machine, would be to use purely mechanical parts.  But you&#8217;d have a lot of tubes running out the back of the robot.  Even if the tubes were bundled in one giant sleeve, that&#8217;s a lot of parts that could fail.  Still, it&#8217;s an idea.</p>
<p>The &#8220;camera&#8221; would be a bundle of fiber optic filaments.  The wheels would be spun by pneumatic fluid inside.  All of the parts would be actuated by fluid or air.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t even back up my vacuum cleaner without it becoming tangled in the power cord.</p>
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		<title>By: ColHapablap</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058320</link>
		<dc:creator>ColHapablap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058320</guid>
		<description>&quot;Robots are a part of the wider nuclear industry, capable of doing tasks like detecting radiation, and scaling walls.&quot;

Wait, what?  Scaling walls?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Robots are a part of the wider nuclear industry, capable of doing tasks like detecting radiation, and scaling walls.&#8221;</p>
<p>Wait, what?  Scaling walls?</p>
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		<title>By: PhysicsGuy</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1059350</link>
		<dc:creator>PhysicsGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1059350</guid>
		<description>The challenges involved in modifying some existing system to make it *quickly* able to perform remotely are daunting. The use of &quot;direct control&quot; without any (susceptible) electronics is not unthinkable - just not likely to be off the shelf for a land based system. An agile engineering team given a supportive shop and a stock of analog subassemblies might put something together in a week, but would it be sufficiently reliable? The underwater ROV systems are cabled rather than RF control, but they use digital signaling.

I wonder how long it would take a team of engineers to modify a conventional truck with a water cannon to make it remotely controllable. Could be a couple of weeks if one was willing to accept high risk operational safety (will it lose control and back over me?). 

The basic hobby style of radio control has a long history of pure analog signaling, and therefore not highly susceptible to the radiation induced misbehaviors as digital electronics are, but they suffer from other forms of low reliability and difficulty in assuring safety. Even the hobbyists are moving more and more to digital RC. There are few commercial quality systems that don&#039;t currently have at least some components that are digital. 

The current situation requires an existing &quot;robotic&quot; (perhaps better teleoperated) system with some applicable capabilities (stair climbing, door opening, motion on uneven floor surfaces, etc) that has been tested and shown to be reasonably safe - else a robot could just add to the complexity of the problem. No need for autonomy, just a robust mechanical system that has some dexterity and can carry in some cameras and a few radiation detectors and link that data back. In an environment that was never intended for a robot, and now likely strewn with debris and flooded with water that is a mighty tall order.

I&#039;m sure there are a few out there with systems that have some useful capabilities  - and they are all eager to get them into the scene. We can hope that some truly well-designed and capable systems are able to get in there and help, but I can understand that those who are currently tasked with managing the disaster are going to have trouble sifting through the options being presented - and its decidedly NOT a good idea to just let anyone come in and try.



</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The challenges involved in modifying some existing system to make it *quickly* able to perform remotely are daunting. The use of &#8220;direct control&#8221; without any (susceptible) electronics is not unthinkable &#8211; just not likely to be off the shelf for a land based system. An agile engineering team given a supportive shop and a stock of analog subassemblies might put something together in a week, but would it be sufficiently reliable? The underwater ROV systems are cabled rather than RF control, but they use digital signaling.</p>
<p>I wonder how long it would take a team of engineers to modify a conventional truck with a water cannon to make it remotely controllable. Could be a couple of weeks if one was willing to accept high risk operational safety (will it lose control and back over me?). </p>
<p>The basic hobby style of radio control has a long history of pure analog signaling, and therefore not highly susceptible to the radiation induced misbehaviors as digital electronics are, but they suffer from other forms of low reliability and difficulty in assuring safety. Even the hobbyists are moving more and more to digital RC. There are few commercial quality systems that don&#8217;t currently have at least some components that are digital. </p>
<p>The current situation requires an existing &#8220;robotic&#8221; (perhaps better teleoperated) system with some applicable capabilities (stair climbing, door opening, motion on uneven floor surfaces, etc) that has been tested and shown to be reasonably safe &#8211; else a robot could just add to the complexity of the problem. No need for autonomy, just a robust mechanical system that has some dexterity and can carry in some cameras and a few radiation detectors and link that data back. In an environment that was never intended for a robot, and now likely strewn with debris and flooded with water that is a mighty tall order.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure there are a few out there with systems that have some useful capabilities  &#8211; and they are all eager to get them into the scene. We can hope that some truly well-designed and capable systems are able to get in there and help, but I can understand that those who are currently tasked with managing the disaster are going to have trouble sifting through the options being presented &#8211; and its decidedly NOT a good idea to just let anyone come in and try.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058842</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058842</guid>
		<description>They were using that one robotic snake to search for survivors! They are using robots, BB!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They were using that one robotic snake to search for survivors! They are using robots, BB!</p>
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		<title>By: awjtawjt</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1059100</link>
		<dc:creator>awjtawjt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1059100</guid>
		<description>My $0.02.   Google a Japanese translator for hire.  Call them.  Hire them.  Pitch that person your product, have them pitch it back to you in English a couple times, to your liking. Then, make a plan how to look up the first few cold calls &amp; have them start making those calls to Japan.  Good luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My $0.02.   Google a Japanese translator for hire.  Call them.  Hire them.  Pitch that person your product, have them pitch it back to you in English a couple times, to your liking. Then, make a plan how to look up the first few cold calls &#038; have them start making those calls to Japan.  Good luck.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058339</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058339</guid>
		<description>There are Japanese robots available, but they&#039;re all scheduled up with awkward-dancing and creepy-smiling duties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are Japanese robots available, but they&#8217;re all scheduled up with awkward-dancing and creepy-smiling duties.</p>
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		<title>By: Tribune</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058343</link>
		<dc:creator>Tribune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058343</guid>
		<description>So what happens if the structure of a newer plant changes can the robot still function there? sayyyy like in and earthquake or post tsunami situation? or if Homer Simpson spills coffee?

As for lead suit guy... Suit would probably have to be too thick to be practical. Also there are secondary effects that come from the shielding. For example when a high energy beta particle is stopped by a dense material such as lead you get secondary electromagnetic radiation from the abrupt slow down. This is why you see plexiglass used in labs since the deceleration of the particles is not so abrupt and secondary radiation much less energetic. So if you have awesome lead suit to protect from from gamma radiation you might get fried from it stopping the beta particles. ( my knowledge on the subject is fairly out of date and has probably had song lyrics from the past decade or 2 over writing it). eg   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremsstrahlung_radiation


As for Robotics - I would not be surprised if these events really kicked the japanese robotics industry forward in the coming decades as people ponder questions like the ones raised in the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what happens if the structure of a newer plant changes can the robot still function there? sayyyy like in and earthquake or post tsunami situation? or if Homer Simpson spills coffee?</p>
<p>As for lead suit guy&#8230; Suit would probably have to be too thick to be practical. Also there are secondary effects that come from the shielding. For example when a high energy beta particle is stopped by a dense material such as lead you get secondary electromagnetic radiation from the abrupt slow down. This is why you see plexiglass used in labs since the deceleration of the particles is not so abrupt and secondary radiation much less energetic. So if you have awesome lead suit to protect from from gamma radiation you might get fried from it stopping the beta particles. ( my knowledge on the subject is fairly out of date and has probably had song lyrics from the past decade or 2 over writing it). eg   <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremsstrahlung_radiation" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremsstrahlung_radiation</a></p>
<p>As for Robotics &#8211; I would not be surprised if these events really kicked the japanese robotics industry forward in the coming decades as people ponder questions like the ones raised in the article.</p>
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		<title>By: GIFtheory</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058344</link>
		<dc:creator>GIFtheory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058344</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s pretty sad that there are no robotic Chinooks dumping water 24/7 over the reactors, since the technology is pretty much there--it&#039;s just a matter of money.  If only the militaries of the world could be convinced to spare a dime on technologies with peaceful applications...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s pretty sad that there are no robotic Chinooks dumping water 24/7 over the reactors, since the technology is pretty much there&#8211;it&#8217;s just a matter of money.  If only the militaries of the world could be convinced to spare a dime on technologies with peaceful applications&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mister44</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058602</link>
		<dc:creator>Mister44</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058602</guid>
		<description>What does the radiation do/effect that makes a robot stop working?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What does the radiation do/effect that makes a robot stop working?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1059373</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1059373</guid>
		<description>I guess there is a simple reason for this, see:

http://nuclear.fukushima.jp.nyud.net/robots.txt
User-Agent: *
Disallow: /</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess there is a simple reason for this, see:</p>
<p><a href="http://nuclear.fukushima.jp.nyud.net/robots.txt" rel="nofollow">http://nuclear.fukushima.jp.nyud.net/robots.txt</a><br />
User-Agent: *<br />
Disallow: /</p>
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		<title>By: dculberson</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058350</link>
		<dc:creator>dculberson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058350</guid>
		<description>Three Mile Island wasn&#039;t a significantly newer reactor design than Daiichi.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Three Mile Island wasn&#8217;t a significantly newer reactor design than Daiichi.</p>
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		<title>By: Mister44</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058356</link>
		<dc:creator>Mister44</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058356</guid>
		<description>IIRC, the lead designer of Russia&#039;s moon-rover, the Lunakhod, put together a similar robot so they could look into Chernobyl.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IIRC, the lead designer of Russia&#8217;s moon-rover, the Lunakhod, put together a similar robot so they could look into Chernobyl.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058614</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058614</guid>
		<description>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=dLBJAAAAIBAJ&amp;sjid=HB0NAAAAIBAJ&amp;pg=4849,1021911&amp;dq=killing+of+humans+by+robots+being+investigated&amp;hl=en</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=dLBJAAAAIBAJ&#038;sjid=HB0NAAAAIBAJ&#038;pg=4849,1021911&#038;dq=killing+of+humans+by+robots+being+investigated&#038;hl=en" rel="nofollow">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=dLBJAAAAIBAJ&#038;sjid=HB0NAAAAIBAJ&#038;pg=4849,1021911&#038;dq=killing+of+humans+by+robots+being+investigated&#038;hl=en</a></p>
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		<title>By: GregS</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058363</link>
		<dc:creator>GregS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058363</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s even more puzzling to me is that we keep hearing how the danger of radiation exposure is making it difficult for workers to deal with the problems at the reactors. Don&#039;t they have radiation suits for them to wear?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s even more puzzling to me is that we keep hearing how the danger of radiation exposure is making it difficult for workers to deal with the problems at the reactors. Don&#8217;t they have radiation suits for them to wear?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1059148</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1059148</guid>
		<description>I saw a talk at Oak Ridge National Lab years ago about using robots to do tasks at nuclear reactors to save humans from radiation.  The example they gave was when they needed to put a radioactive substance into a lead jar and screw on the lid.  There were robotic hands that could put the substance in the jar, but to screw on the lid, pre-robot, a worker would run into the room and turn the lid a fraction of a rotation, and then run out.  Then a 2nd worker would do the same thing.  Etc.  

Now we have robots that can do very specific tasks like this in easy-to-navigate environments. But the environment at Fukushima is radioactive, hot, and probably full of debris. I don&#039;t think our robots are that &quot;smart&quot; yet.  Technology solves some problems (and creates others), but technology can&#039;t solve problems that we haven&#039;t foreseen. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw a talk at Oak Ridge National Lab years ago about using robots to do tasks at nuclear reactors to save humans from radiation.  The example they gave was when they needed to put a radioactive substance into a lead jar and screw on the lid.  There were robotic hands that could put the substance in the jar, but to screw on the lid, pre-robot, a worker would run into the room and turn the lid a fraction of a rotation, and then run out.  Then a 2nd worker would do the same thing.  Etc.  </p>
<p>Now we have robots that can do very specific tasks like this in easy-to-navigate environments. But the environment at Fukushima is radioactive, hot, and probably full of debris. I don&#8217;t think our robots are that &#8220;smart&#8221; yet.  Technology solves some problems (and creates others), but technology can&#8217;t solve problems that we haven&#8217;t foreseen. </p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058893</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058893</guid>
		<description>Robots will take over, see 
http://robotland.blogspot.com/2011/03/robots-will-take-over-fukushima-daiichi.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robots will take over, see<br />
<a href="http://robotland.blogspot.com/2011/03/robots-will-take-over-fukushima-daiichi.html" rel="nofollow">http://robotland.blogspot.com/2011/03/robots-will-take-over-fukushima-daiichi.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: von Bobo</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058382</link>
		<dc:creator>von Bobo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058382</guid>
		<description>&quot;Where are the robots?&quot; is an unfair question in my opinion. Since when does japan have a robot that can perform any task we ask of it (in this case: fire fighting, high pressure plubming, high voltage electrician, heavy debris removal, all within an electronically hazardous space designed for humans), and is already sitting on the shelf? Perhaps a team of highly specialized robots? I feel like the question, while not intentionally, is slightly condescending and ignorant of robotic technology (I guess that could explain why the question was asked).

I&#039;m also guessing that the robots used in the prior nuclear disasters were not first responders, but instead were modified robots designed to perform specific tasks, and were utilized in later phases of the disaster like cleanup and monitoring. 

As Tribune mentioned, the new awareness this disaster is creating will push development into new areas that until now have not been the robot designers primary goals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Where are the robots?&#8221; is an unfair question in my opinion. Since when does japan have a robot that can perform any task we ask of it (in this case: fire fighting, high pressure plubming, high voltage electrician, heavy debris removal, all within an electronically hazardous space designed for humans), and is already sitting on the shelf? Perhaps a team of highly specialized robots? I feel like the question, while not intentionally, is slightly condescending and ignorant of robotic technology (I guess that could explain why the question was asked).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also guessing that the robots used in the prior nuclear disasters were not first responders, but instead were modified robots designed to perform specific tasks, and were utilized in later phases of the disaster like cleanup and monitoring. </p>
<p>As Tribune mentioned, the new awareness this disaster is creating will push development into new areas that until now have not been the robot designers primary goals.</p>
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		<title>By: Mister44</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1059158</link>
		<dc:creator>Mister44</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1059158</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the info. Would a hard wired robot, with no electronics, just gears and motor and controlled via wire have similar problems?

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the info. Would a hard wired robot, with no electronics, just gears and motor and controlled via wire have similar problems?</p>
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		<title>By: traalfaz</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058392</link>
		<dc:creator>traalfaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058392</guid>
		<description>I was wondering about that this morning.  There are, as a standard on-the-shelf thing, fire-fighting robots.  These can carry water hoses.  Why the heck can&#039;t they get one of those there and use them to get a hose to the spent fuel pools?  A fire-fighting robot should be able to get inside the building and roll up to the pool, or at least get a high pressure nozzle a lot closer than people can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was wondering about that this morning.  There are, as a standard on-the-shelf thing, fire-fighting robots.  These can carry water hoses.  Why the heck can&#8217;t they get one of those there and use them to get a hose to the spent fuel pools?  A fire-fighting robot should be able to get inside the building and roll up to the pool, or at least get a high pressure nozzle a lot closer than people can.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058910</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058910</guid>
		<description>In Chernobyl the robots were fail because the radiation knocked their bits out -- seriously, even the teleoperated ones the chips were just toast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Chernobyl the robots were fail because the radiation knocked their bits out &#8212; seriously, even the teleoperated ones the chips were just toast.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058399</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058399</guid>
		<description>I was thinking to myself last night:  someone should call up Grant Imahara from Mythbusters and have them R/C up a couple of fire engines to pour water into these buildings.  What could it hurt (saying they don&#039;t have any issues where they drive a firetruck into the side of a reactor, but the reactors are tough, so imho it&#039;s worth it)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was thinking to myself last night:  someone should call up Grant Imahara from Mythbusters and have them R/C up a couple of fire engines to pour water into these buildings.  What could it hurt (saying they don&#8217;t have any issues where they drive a firetruck into the side of a reactor, but the reactors are tough, so imho it&#8217;s worth it)?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058405</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058405</guid>
		<description>French Robots goes in Japan...

http://bigbrowser.blog.lemonde.fr/2011/03/17/fukushima-des-robots-francais-au-secours-de-la-centrale/

the INTRA group (created after Tchernobyl)

http://www.groupe-intra.com/index2.htm

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>French Robots goes in Japan&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://bigbrowser.blog.lemonde.fr/2011/03/17/fukushima-des-robots-francais-au-secours-de-la-centrale/" rel="nofollow">http://bigbrowser.blog.lemonde.fr/2011/03/17/fukushima-des-robots-francais-au-secours-de-la-centrale/</a></p>
<p>the INTRA group (created after Tchernobyl)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.groupe-intra.com/index2.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.groupe-intra.com/index2.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: LennStar</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058406</link>
		<dc:creator>LennStar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058406</guid>
		<description>Yes, they did it. Used it on the top of the building to cleanr it.  And it stopped working pretty soon because of the radiation - which is propably the answer for the question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, they did it. Used it on the top of the building to cleanr it.  And it stopped working pretty soon because of the radiation &#8211; which is propably the answer for the question.</p>
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		<title>By: imag</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058407</link>
		<dc:creator>imag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058407</guid>
		<description>Many of the workers (if not all the ones left) have been in radiation suits for days.  The discussion of radiation being too high to approach assumes that a suit is being used.

As an aside on robots, the radiation won&#039;t be nice to most off the shelf robots either.  Not that they wouldn&#039;t be of some use, but it&#039;s something to think about.  

And getting a robot to carry a hose over there isn&#039;t the only issue.  It&#039;s that the pumps themselves have been a problem, along with the power to the site.  It *seems* like it wouldn&#039;t be that hard to drop in some generators and pumps, but my guess is that it&#039;s more difficult than we think.

Tepco hasn&#039;t proven to be completely forthright about things, but I doubt that they, or all the other people working on this, are complete morons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many of the workers (if not all the ones left) have been in radiation suits for days.  The discussion of radiation being too high to approach assumes that a suit is being used.</p>
<p>As an aside on robots, the radiation won&#8217;t be nice to most off the shelf robots either.  Not that they wouldn&#8217;t be of some use, but it&#8217;s something to think about.  </p>
<p>And getting a robot to carry a hose over there isn&#8217;t the only issue.  It&#8217;s that the pumps themselves have been a problem, along with the power to the site.  It *seems* like it wouldn&#8217;t be that hard to drop in some generators and pumps, but my guess is that it&#8217;s more difficult than we think.</p>
<p>Tepco hasn&#8217;t proven to be completely forthright about things, but I doubt that they, or all the other people working on this, are complete morons.</p>
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		<title>By: sally599</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058413</link>
		<dc:creator>sally599</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058413</guid>
		<description>I131---is both a beta and gamma emmiter---so in a lab typically a beta emmiter gets plexiglass shielding while a gamma emmiter requires 12 inches of lead.  Beta particles actually generate gamma when they hit lead so a lead apron (.5 inches thick) which does not fully block gamma will actually cause more gamma exposure when the beta particles hit it.  Working with these isotopes, you normally limit time of exposure and increase distance with tongs etc, shielding is remarkably ineffective for a human, you shield the source and samples with lead but that&#039;s about all you can do.  Unfortunately radiation also has a tendency to screw up unshielded electronic devices, so they can&#039;t just pull something off the shelf unless they want to add 12 inches of lead to it.  Also keep in mind that they are the electric plant so when there is no power, there&#039;s also no hope of restoring power until a reactor can be brought back on line.  It&#039;s really a horrible situation because I can tell you that the people they use to maintain generator function are typically outside contractors and not nuclear specialists so everything needs to be shut down, decontaminated and carefully monitored before they can come in to fix any equipment at the site.  At least that&#039;s what they do in the states.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I131&#8212;is both a beta and gamma emmiter&#8212;so in a lab typically a beta emmiter gets plexiglass shielding while a gamma emmiter requires 12 inches of lead.  Beta particles actually generate gamma when they hit lead so a lead apron (.5 inches thick) which does not fully block gamma will actually cause more gamma exposure when the beta particles hit it.  Working with these isotopes, you normally limit time of exposure and increase distance with tongs etc, shielding is remarkably ineffective for a human, you shield the source and samples with lead but that&#8217;s about all you can do.  Unfortunately radiation also has a tendency to screw up unshielded electronic devices, so they can&#8217;t just pull something off the shelf unless they want to add 12 inches of lead to it.  Also keep in mind that they are the electric plant so when there is no power, there&#8217;s also no hope of restoring power until a reactor can be brought back on line.  It&#8217;s really a horrible situation because I can tell you that the people they use to maintain generator function are typically outside contractors and not nuclear specialists so everything needs to be shut down, decontaminated and carefully monitored before they can come in to fix any equipment at the site.  At least that&#8217;s what they do in the states.</p>
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		<title>By: Amelia_G</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1058679</link>
		<dc:creator>Amelia_G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1058679</guid>
		<description>So the Siberian &quot;dead zone&quot; in Tomb Raider was actually highly radioactive...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So the Siberian &#8220;dead zone&#8221; in Tomb Raider was actually highly radioactive&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/japan-nuclear-crisis-1.html#comment-1061765</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1061765</guid>
		<description>Hi

Have you found a contact person yet? I found The Center for Robot-Assisted Search and Rescue and they may be able to help

http://crasar.org/contact/

Hope you are able to find a contact to get your robots to Japan. 

All the best,

C.T. Kirkpatrick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi</p>
<p>Have you found a contact person yet? I found The Center for Robot-Assisted Search and Rescue and they may be able to help</p>
<p><a href="http://crasar.org/contact/" rel="nofollow">http://crasar.org/contact/</a></p>
<p>Hope you are able to find a contact to get your robots to Japan. </p>
<p>All the best,</p>
<p>C.T. Kirkpatrick</p>
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