Comments on: XKCD's radiation dose chart http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sat, 25 May 2013 12:19:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: dculberson http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1061125 dculberson Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1061125 There's also a counter-argument that higher doses over short periods of time allow your body to recover, whereas a lower dose over a long period of time continues the DNA damage without allowing your body to repair it. Notably in this incident: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident the man that handled the radiation source and received a much higher overall dosage than his wife survived, whereas the wife passed away. She had received a lower dosage but over a longer span of time. There’s also a counter-argument that higher doses over short periods of time allow your body to recover, whereas a lower dose over a long period of time continues the DNA damage without allowing your body to repair it. Notably in this incident:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident

the man that handled the radiation source and received a much higher overall dosage than his wife survived, whereas the wife passed away. She had received a lower dosage but over a longer span of time.

]]> By: emmdeeaych http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1061143 emmdeeaych Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1061143 math is hard! The difference between m and µ has you properly, asshattingly, hung up, doesn't it? math is hard!

The difference between m and µ has you properly, asshattingly, hung up, doesn’t it?

]]> By: gwailo_joe http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060889 gwailo_joe Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060889 Thank you thank you thank you. Useful. Concise. Easy to comprehend. So much better than pointless conjecture and fear-mongering. . . "The facts ma'am, just the facts." Thank you thank you thank you. Useful. Concise. Easy to comprehend.

So much better than pointless conjecture and fear-mongering. . .

“The facts ma’am, just the facts.”

]]> By: tp1024 http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1061147 tp1024 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1061147 Peter: > I mean, a gun powder factory is perfectly safe when operating within specs, but we don't build them in cities, do we? Well ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enschede_fireworks_disaster Also, I wouldn't say that radiation is uncontrollable if anything goes wrong. Just as explosives, it is uncontrollable unless you set it up to be under control. In Fukushima they did so with the reactors in their containments(*). But they didn't with the spent fuel pools, which are the main concern now. (Don't ask me how anybody could be so stupid to put them right next to the reactor, outside of the containment building, 20-30m above ground. I slapped my head when I finally realized that ...) (*) Hopefully. There is a picture of a plume that I can't get out of my mind, because it looked almost like a shattered projectile after penetrating a wall. But given the radiation levels, the containments should be mostly intact (except for the leak in the suppression chamber). Peter:

> I mean, a gun powder factory is perfectly safe when operating within specs, but we don’t build them in cities, do we?

Well …
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enschede_fireworks_disaster

Also, I wouldn’t say that radiation is uncontrollable if anything goes wrong. Just as explosives, it is uncontrollable unless you set it up to be under control.

In Fukushima they did so with the reactors in their containments(*). But they didn’t with the spent fuel pools, which are the main concern now. (Don’t ask me how anybody could be so stupid to put them right next to the reactor, outside of the containment building, 20-30m above ground. I slapped my head when I finally realized that …)

(*) Hopefully. There is a picture of a plume that I can’t get out of my mind, because it looked almost like a shattered projectile after penetrating a wall. But given the radiation levels, the containments should be mostly intact (except for the leak in the suppression chamber).

]]> By: jimkirk http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1061405 jimkirk Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1061405 Yes, but eleven times more dangerous than nuclear energy... Yes, but eleven times more dangerous than nuclear energy…

]]> By: Cowicide http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060895 Cowicide Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060895 Watch out for the banana phones. Watch out for the banana phones.

]]> By: peterbruells http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1061153 peterbruells Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1061153 Actually, I was thinking of Enschede, when I wrote that. But I totally misremembered it with regards to being built away from the city. About uncontrollable: Technically, it's controllable. Just look at Chernobyl. After some hysteria and sensible conern, you just declare an eclusion zone of some 60 km in diamater and ban all human life from it. :-) It's probably a feasible technique for countries like the Ukraine with a population density 77/km^2 , but I'm not so sure about the feasibility of such a scheme in Germany (229/km2) or Japan (337.1/km2 - and I think much higher in practice) where something like this would displace millions. About stupidity: Well, these people operate under the assumption that the worst case will not happen. There's a reasons why German law caps liability for atomic accidents and why most insurers will exclude atomic accidents from the terms of their contracts. Actually, I was thinking of Enschede, when I wrote that. But I totally misremembered it with regards to being built away from the city.

About uncontrollable: Technically, it’s controllable. Just look at Chernobyl. After some hysteria and sensible conern, you just declare an eclusion zone of some 60 km in diamater and ban all human life from it. :-)

It’s probably a feasible technique for countries like the Ukraine with a population density 77/km^2 , but I’m not so sure about the feasibility of such a scheme in Germany (229/km2) or Japan (337.1/km2 – and I think much higher in practice) where something like this would displace millions.

About stupidity: Well, these people operate under the assumption that the worst case will not happen. There’s a reasons why German law caps liability for atomic accidents and why most insurers will exclude atomic accidents from the terms of their contracts.

]]> By: Kerov http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060898 Kerov Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060898 A wonderfully useful chart. Sadly, I can visualize a similar chart, showing how many people will pay attention to various kinds of content: .. Scientifically literate, objective information ............................. ............................. ............................. "OMG Radiation!!!" ............................. ............................. ............................. [Next order of magnitude] ...... ...... Charlie Sheen ...... A wonderfully useful chart.

Sadly, I can visualize a similar chart, showing how many people will pay attention to various kinds of content:

.. Scientifically literate, objective information

………………………..
………………………..
……………………….. “OMG Radiation!!!”
………………………..
………………………..
………………………..

[Next order of magnitude]

……
…… Charlie Sheen
……

]]> By: Chocodile http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060899 Chocodile Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060899 So when radiation levels at Fukushima 1 were about 800 mSv/hour -- the equivalent would be eating 80,000,000 bananas in an hour. That's a lot of fucking bananas. So when radiation levels at Fukushima 1 were about 800 mSv/hour — the equivalent would be eating 80,000,000 bananas in an hour. That’s a lot of fucking bananas.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1061925 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1061925 This chart is flawed, it does not distinguish between milli sievert and micro sievert. Further more, not all items have the interval listed. For example, Maximum externals dose from Three Mile Island accident is shown as 1 mSV. Is it millisievert or microsievert (a 1000 time difference)? Is it 1 mSV per hour, per day, or what? This chart is flawed, it does not distinguish between milli sievert and micro sievert. Further more, not all items have the interval listed.
For example, Maximum externals dose from Three Mile Island accident is shown as 1 mSV. Is it millisievert or microsievert (a 1000 time difference)? Is it 1 mSV per hour, per day, or what?

]]> By: kjulig http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060905 kjulig Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060905 <blockquote>fucking bananas</blockquote> Ew!

fucking bananas

Ew!

]]> By: GuidoDavid http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1061428 GuidoDavid Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1061428 OT: I made a translation to Spanish, but I'd like to keep the original font and style of the chart. I'd like to ask here if somebody is interested in helping with that. If you are, please contact me at guido () lava-amp. com OT:

I made a translation to Spanish, but I’d like to keep the original font and style of the chart. I’d like to ask here if somebody is interested in helping with that.

If you are, please contact me at guido () lava-amp. com

]]> By: a_user http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1075254 a_user Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1075254 who is Hirose Takashi? who is Hirose Takashi?

]]> By: jimh http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060919 jimh Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060919 Rhymes with winning! Rhymes with winning!

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060920 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060920 Look at the amount of radiation that you absorb from eating a banana. Just look at it. Look at the amount of radiation that you absorb from eating a banana.

Just look at it.

]]> By: PJG http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060924 PJG Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060924 So how much is a TSA body scan again? So how much is a TSA body scan again?

]]> By: voiceinthedistance http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060925 voiceinthedistance Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060925 What's the point of this chart if it is going to omit any hard numbers for banana phones? It dismisses them like some kind of joke or something. What’s the point of this chart if it is going to omit any hard numbers for banana phones? It dismisses them like some kind of joke or something.

]]> By: stevew http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060926 stevew Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060926 Glad that this got posted here for even wider viewing, I just finished reading it full size at xkcd. Glad that this got posted here for even wider viewing, I just finished reading it full size at xkcd.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060928 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060928 note to self.... remember to not keep the banana phone in my pants pocket. note to self…. remember to not keep the banana phone in my pants pocket.

]]> By: whisper dog http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060930 whisper dog Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060930 I'd like to get Maggie's take on this before I decide how much credence to give it. No disrespect to Randall, his comics are awesome but MKB's once-over would be worthwhile here. Also no disrespect to Sean either, but I don't know if he's been following Maggie's incredible work on this very topic. She's set a standard and it would be helpful to know how well this fits into that standard. I’d like to get Maggie’s take on this before I decide how much credence to give it. No disrespect to Randall, his comics are awesome but MKB’s once-over would be worthwhile here. Also no disrespect to Sean either, but I don’t know if he’s been following Maggie’s incredible work on this very topic. She’s set a standard and it would be helpful to know how well this fits into that standard.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060933 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060933 Frankly said, that chart is quite a mess, especially since it doesn't reflect on time-component sufficiently well. For example, you can't seriously argue that a dental X-ray is magnitudes less dangerous than living a brick building, but that's the message this diagram ultimately conveys. Frankly said, that chart is quite a mess, especially since it doesn’t reflect on time-component sufficiently well.

For example, you can’t seriously argue that a dental X-ray is magnitudes less dangerous than living a brick building, but that’s the message this diagram ultimately conveys.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060937 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060937 What about a day in the Capitol Wasteland? How does that compare? What about a day in the Capitol Wasteland? How does that compare?

]]> By: RedShirt77 http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060942 RedShirt77 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060942 So 2 weeks in japan= one year of working at a Nuke plant? So 2 weeks in japan= one year of working at a Nuke plant?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1061454 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1061454 Since there hasn't been any actuall testing on humans on the effects of doses of radiation, it's all still a guessing game isn't it? My understanding of the storage of spent fuel rods in the US is that they are cooled for a period of time in uncontained pools untill they are cool enough to go into contained dry storage. Tons of spent rods are not just sitting around in the uncontained pool sipping beer the rest of their lives. Also, I know this is at a much lower level than Plutonium but there are several Gulf War 1(Desert Storm) Vets with chunks of depleted Uranium in their bodies. It's a constant source of radiation, is it not? I wonder where that fall on the chart? Since there hasn’t been any actuall testing on humans on the effects of doses of radiation, it’s all still a guessing game isn’t it?

My understanding of the storage of spent fuel rods in the US is that they are cooled for a period of time in uncontained pools untill they are cool enough to go into contained dry storage. Tons of spent rods are not just sitting around in the uncontained pool sipping beer the rest of their lives.

Also, I know this is at a much lower level than Plutonium but there are several Gulf War 1(Desert Storm) Vets with chunks of depleted Uranium in their bodies. It’s a constant source of radiation, is it not? I wonder where that fall on the chart?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060944 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060944 best xkcd chart ever! best xkcd chart ever!

]]> By: OrcOnTheEndOfMyFork http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060945 OrcOnTheEndOfMyFork Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060945 <blockquote>So how much is a TSA body scan again?</blockquote> Seems like we'll be measuring it in terms of cancer treatments for unshielded TSA agents.

So how much is a TSA body scan again?

Seems like we’ll be measuring it in terms of cancer treatments for unshielded TSA agents.

]]> By: Chocodile http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1061203 Chocodile Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1061203 No way dude, the metric system is my friend. My problem is referencing wikipedia, they say 0.0001 mSv in a banana. No way dude, the metric system is my friend. My problem is referencing wikipedia, they say 0.0001 mSv in a banana.

]]> By: Jack http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060948 Jack Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060948 <blockquote>Frankly said, that chart is quite a mess, especially since it doesn't reflect on time-component sufficiently well.</blockquote> Agreed.

Frankly said, that chart is quite a mess, especially since it doesn’t reflect on time-component sufficiently well.

Agreed.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060950 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060950 .25 uSv per scan .25 uSv per scan

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/03/19/graphic-chart-showin.html#comment-1060952 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1060952 One mistake - the timescale for the first entry. It is nonsensical to compare the dosage due to 'Sleeping next to someone' (for an undefined length of time) with 'Living near a reactor for a certain length of time' - one has a timescale and one doesn't. That said - it's a great diagram. I can't agree with the previous comment that it's a mess. It's a diagram showing radiation DOSAGE. That's what it shows. The complaint that radiation dosage isn't the whole story and that a single diagram doesn't explain everything is simply missing the point of the diagram. Heck - the diagram even starts by explaining this very point at the top! Mac One mistake – the timescale for the first entry.

It is nonsensical to compare the dosage due to ‘Sleeping next to someone’ (for an undefined length of time) with ‘Living near a reactor for a certain length of time’ – one has a timescale and one doesn’t.

That said – it’s a great diagram. I can’t agree with the previous comment that it’s a mess. It’s a diagram showing radiation DOSAGE.

That’s what it shows. The complaint that radiation dosage isn’t the whole story and that a single diagram doesn’t explain everything is simply missing the point of the diagram.

Heck – the diagram even starts by explaining this very point at the top!

Mac

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