Comments on: San Francisco to require ID scans, photos of everyone who goes to a venue -- public meeting tonight! http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sat, 25 May 2013 04:50:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: vetnoir http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081344 vetnoir Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081344 This sounds like something out of a novel. Like something that Cory Doctrow guy would write... Not something from the real world. This sounds like something out of a novel. Like something that Cory Doctrow guy would write… Not something from the real world.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081346 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081346 Just for the record here. The Entertainment Commission didnt come up with these proposals, the San Francisco Police Department did. The Entertainment Commission is tasked with considering the viability of them and has the ultimate decision making power of whether they become law... I for one hope that they quickly dismiss the ID requirment as well as the other proposals swiftly, and move onto whats important instead... Just for the record here.
The Entertainment Commission didnt come up with these proposals, the San Francisco Police Department did. The Entertainment Commission is tasked with considering the viability of them and has the ultimate decision making power of whether they become law…

I for one hope that they quickly dismiss the ID requirment as well as the other proposals swiftly, and move onto whats important instead…

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081353 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081353 Somehow the fact tha this is San Francisco makes the tune "California Ãœber Alles," run through my head. Somehow the fact tha this is San Francisco makes the tune “California Ãœber Alles,” run through my head.

]]> By: Elfwreck http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081874 Elfwreck Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081874 Update: The EC announced, at the meeting, that the mayor wanted time to look into this rule, and the subject was given a continuance--they'll hold another meeting later to decide on whether to implement it, and have more discussion then. Save The Rave was handing out flyers with their <a href="http://www.savetherave.org/home/2011/4/12/talking-points-for-entertainment-commission-hearing-tonight.html">talking points</a>, and the commission seemed happy to shelve the whole thing and spend the meeting on other business. They only took public comments last night. Update: The EC announced, at the meeting, that the mayor wanted time to look into this rule, and the subject was given a continuance–they’ll hold another meeting later to decide on whether to implement it, and have more discussion then.

Save The Rave was handing out flyers with their talking points, and the commission seemed happy to shelve the whole thing and spend the meeting on other business. They only took public comments last night.

]]> By: alllie http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081363 alllie Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081363 So if the Republicans and evangelicals get control of the presidency and congress and make homosexuality illegal, they could use your attendance at a known gay bar as evidence of your sexual orientation. Has the NSA already gotten control of SF city government? So if the Republicans and evangelicals get control of the presidency and congress and make homosexuality illegal, they could use your attendance at a known gay bar as evidence of your sexual orientation.

Has the NSA already gotten control of SF city government?

]]> By: billstewart http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081364 billstewart Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081364 It sounds like a great idea! We should make sure all the members of the San Francisco Entertainment Commission do the carding work themselves, rather than trusting clubs to do it, because they're obviously the only people who can be trusted. October would be a good time to start - we'll have them card everybody going to Hardly Strictly Bluegrass*. (For those of you who aren't from around here, HSB is a free (thanks, Warren!) all-weekend concert in the park that in recent years has gotten several quarters of a million people attending.) More seriously, though, somebody should post all of the members' names, addresses, phone numbers, and pictures, to remind us of what our fine public servants have been doing for us. It sounds like a great idea! We should make sure all the members of the San Francisco Entertainment Commission do the carding work themselves, rather than trusting clubs to do it, because they’re obviously the only people who can be trusted. October would be a good time to start – we’ll have them card everybody going to Hardly Strictly Bluegrass*.

(For those of you who aren’t from around here, HSB is a free (thanks, Warren!) all-weekend concert in the park that in recent years has gotten several quarters of a million people attending.)

More seriously, though, somebody should post all of the members’ names, addresses, phone numbers, and pictures, to remind us of what our fine public servants have been doing for us.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081369 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081369 It would be good to know about a meeting this important farther in advance than the day it's occurring. Y'know, some people might care about privacy but otherwise have plans . . . It would be good to know about a meeting this important farther in advance than the day it’s occurring. Y’know, some people might care about privacy but otherwise have plans . . .

]]> By: Teller http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081370 Teller Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081370 "Scanning the ID's of all attendees at an anti-war rally, a gay night club, or a fundraiser for a civil liberties organization would have a deeply chilling effect on speech." Everybody in SF knows which club shootings kickstarted this effort. Everybody in SF also knows the predominant group responsible for these the shootings, and they ain't gay clubbers, anti-war rallyers or fundraisers. Or animal activists, vegan shopowners or Genius Bar clerks. “Scanning the ID’s of all attendees at an anti-war rally, a gay night club, or a fundraiser for a civil liberties organization would have a deeply chilling effect on speech.”

Everybody in SF knows which club shootings kickstarted this effort. Everybody in SF also knows the predominant group responsible for these the shootings, and they ain’t gay clubbers, anti-war rallyers or fundraisers. Or animal activists, vegan shopowners or Genius Bar clerks.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1082396 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1082396 Airport screening IS a 4Th Admentment problem-it VIOLATES IT. Current so called Supreeme Court's a "Problem" too. Airport screening IS a 4Th Admentment problem-it VIOLATES IT.

Current so called Supreeme Court’s a “Problem” too.

]]> By: Dire http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081374 Dire Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081374 So what, there have been "high profile" shootings at a few clubs... Why not do the logical thing and determine whether anything about those particular clubs/events might have attracted the type of person who would shoot a fellow club-goer, rather than impose draconian restrictions on all bars and clubs??? I guarantee you, not one of those shootings took place at some garage rock venue, new wave night, post-punk show, monthly goth cabaret, britpop party, trip-hop/downtempo lounge, etc. So what, there have been “high profile” shootings at a few clubs… Why not do the logical thing and determine whether anything about those particular clubs/events might have attracted the type of person who would shoot a fellow club-goer, rather than impose draconian restrictions on all bars and clubs??? I guarantee you, not one of those shootings took place at some garage rock venue, new wave night, post-punk show, monthly goth cabaret, britpop party, trip-hop/downtempo lounge, etc.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081123 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081123 San Francisco becoming a police state? Wasn't that an episode of Sliders? San Francisco becoming a police state? Wasn’t that an episode of Sliders?

]]> By: peterbruells http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081125 peterbruells Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081125 Wasn't there a "land of the free" in some popular song? Wasn’t there a “land of the free” in some popular song?

]]> By: Dan Mac http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081381 Dan Mac Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081381 Bar Owners have been doing this for years here in Vancouver. After a few slaps on the hand, they have it worked out with the Privacy Commissioner. I am no apologist for it, but gangland gunplay was getting out of hand in the clubs and a number of people got shot and killed, which swayed the debate. Ultimately, the decision as to whether you want to frequent a place because it has the technology remains in the individuals hands. Bars and clubs are private businesses, and if they have procedures you do not like, then do not go to them, or so seems to be the official policy (provided they comply with privacy regulations). Here is where it is at legally for now: http://idscanner.blogspot.com/2011/01/in-canada-allowing-id-to-be-scanned-is.html Bar Owners have been doing this for years here in Vancouver. After a few slaps on the hand, they have it worked out with the Privacy Commissioner.
I am no apologist for it, but gangland gunplay was getting out of hand in the clubs and a number of people got shot and killed, which swayed the debate.
Ultimately, the decision as to whether you want to frequent a place because it has the technology remains in the individuals hands. Bars and clubs are private businesses, and if they have procedures you do not like, then do not go to them, or so seems to be the official policy (provided they comply with privacy regulations).
Here is where it is at legally for now:
http://idscanner.blogspot.com/2011/01/in-canada-allowing-id-to-be-scanned-is.html

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081382 Antinous / Moderator Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081382 Doesn't it seem like this is also part of the ongoing war between entertainment venues and the idiots who move next door to them and then start complaining about the noise? Doesn’t it seem like this is also part of the ongoing war between entertainment venues and the idiots who move next door to them and then start complaining about the noise?

]]> By: desiredusername http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081127 desiredusername Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081127 Wait. It's not April 1st! Wait. It’s not April 1st!

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081383 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081383 Jamie Zawinsky's DNA lounge has an interesting blog on the nightlife scene in SF. It's pretty funny to read his analyses of newspaper reports, where they often point out which nightclub an injury was near, whether or not it was open that day. Mandatory food and drug labelling solved the drug-additive problem around turn of the century. How about requiring prominent signs which say how many days since the last shooting, until the count reaches 366? Jamie Zawinsky’s DNA lounge has an interesting blog on the nightlife scene in SF.

It’s pretty funny to read his analyses of newspaper reports, where they often point out which nightclub an injury was near, whether or not it was open that day.

Mandatory food and drug labelling solved the drug-additive problem around turn of the century. How about requiring prominent signs which say how many days since the last shooting, until the count reaches 366?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081131 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081131 Yeah, this has gotta be a joke. Either that or someone at city hall has gone off the rails. Yeah, this has gotta be a joke. Either that or someone at city hall has gone off the rails.

]]> By: Uthor http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081392 Uthor Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081392 All the bars in Champaign, IL (at least the ones near campus) would take photos of your ID. Since it was okay to go in at 19 instead of 21, I'd always assumed it was for the bars to protect themselves in case someone got alcohol using a fake ID. Never really thought about it one way or the other. I also haven't seen that practice in use outside of that small area. The gambling boat in Peoria also takes scans of your ID. They have a camera that you have to look into and your ID is overlayed on the screen, I'm guessing so they have a current picture to compare to. Not sure of the purpose there. I don't really have a problem with this in places that you have to meet an age requirement to go into. It's the buisnesses way of protecting themselves. Getting IDed to get into a more-or-less publically accessible area (a concert, for example) doesn't seem to serve much of a purpose. I can see a lot of venues getting behind this for the same reason airlines are behind showing your ID to board a plane: they can make sure the person buying the ticket is using the ticket, thus cutting down on scalping or selling off tickets you can't use. All the bars in Champaign, IL (at least the ones near campus) would take photos of your ID. Since it was okay to go in at 19 instead of 21, I’d always assumed it was for the bars to protect themselves in case someone got alcohol using a fake ID. Never really thought about it one way or the other. I also haven’t seen that practice in use outside of that small area.

The gambling boat in Peoria also takes scans of your ID. They have a camera that you have to look into and your ID is overlayed on the screen, I’m guessing so they have a current picture to compare to. Not sure of the purpose there.

I don’t really have a problem with this in places that you have to meet an age requirement to go into. It’s the buisnesses way of protecting themselves. Getting IDed to get into a more-or-less publically accessible area (a concert, for example) doesn’t seem to serve much of a purpose.

I can see a lot of venues getting behind this for the same reason airlines are behind showing your ID to board a plane: they can make sure the person buying the ticket is using the ticket, thus cutting down on scalping or selling off tickets you can’t use.

]]> By: Ernunnos http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081137 Ernunnos Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081137 Tell them that this will have a disparate impact on undocumented immigrants and watch their heads explode. Tell them that this will have a disparate impact on undocumented immigrants and watch their heads explode.

]]> By: Teller http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081397 Teller Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081397 Honestly, I think it's primarily the shootings. Gawain Lavers at #12 seems to have a grip on the situation - especially the Entertainment Commission's after-the-fact need to "look busy." Honestly, I think it’s primarily the shootings. Gawain Lavers at #12 seems to have a grip on the situation – especially the Entertainment Commission’s after-the-fact need to “look busy.”

]]> By: BB http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081142 BB Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081142 Why? Are there huge problems in clubs? Otherwise, I suspect that the commission is helping itself to free marketing data, at EVERYONE'S risk. Stop going to clubs. The clubs will bitch if they lose or get put out of business, end of proposed rule. Less clubs, less city tax income. There is no need for club-goer's dossiers. If someone is there for trouble, they will fake an ID anyway. Why? Are there huge problems in clubs? Otherwise, I suspect that the commission is helping itself to free marketing data, at EVERYONE’S risk. Stop going to clubs. The clubs will bitch if they lose or get put out of business, end of proposed rule. Less clubs, less city tax income. There is no need for club-goer’s dossiers. If someone is there for trouble, they will fake an ID anyway.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081654 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081654 Remembering how much there is to do in San Jose, and all throughout the peninsula, there are lots of other places to go where big brother is not watching. Sf business and venue owners should be screaming bloody murder over this. Remembering how much there is to do in San Jose, and all throughout the peninsula, there are lots of other places to go where big brother is not watching. Sf business and venue owners should be screaming bloody murder over this.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081402 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081402 That was my exact thought. It's like an Onion news story. How scary is that? That was my exact thought. It’s like an Onion news story. How scary is that?

]]> By: Alvis http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081153 Alvis Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081153 The Entertainment Commission should stick to its mission statement; this does not sound entertaining at all. The Entertainment Commission should stick to its mission statement; this does not sound entertaining at all.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1092166 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1092166 Care to enlighten? Care to enlighten?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1082441 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1082441 Just draw a smile on your ass and let them photograph it. Just draw a smile on your ass and let them photograph it.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081163 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081163 So SF is trying to keep up with good ol´ american patriotism, eh? Exactly what happened in Germany 50 years ago. You guys should wake up soon. So SF is trying to keep up with good ol´ american patriotism, eh?
Exactly what happened in Germany 50 years ago.
You guys should wake up soon.

]]> By: Uromastyx http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081675 Uromastyx Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081675 Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

– Benjamin Franklin

]]> By: pooryoric http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081164 pooryoric Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081164 Where's Little Brother?? Where’s Little Brother??

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/12/san-francisco-to-req.html#comment-1081679 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081679 We already have this in place in Brisbane, Australia. There's talk of taking it Australia-wide. The information is all stored and controlled by private enterprise - a network of pubs and clubs. Scary. We already have this in place in Brisbane, Australia. There’s talk of taking it Australia-wide. The information is all stored and controlled by private enterprise – a network of pubs and clubs. Scary.

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