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	<title>Comments on: Science Question From a Toddler: The magnet&#160;conundrum</title>
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	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: Mike Mol</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086724</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Mol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086724</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s actually incredibly illuminating, thank you. :)

(And thanks to Joel for the earlier explanation, too)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s actually incredibly illuminating, thank you. :)</p>
<p>(And thanks to Joel for the earlier explanation, too)</p>
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		<title>By: Gawain Lavers</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086473</link>
		<dc:creator>Gawain Lavers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086473</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Why can&#039;t we stick two cats together?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You should try briskly rubbing them together first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Why can&#8217;t we stick two cats together?</p></blockquote>
<p>You should try briskly rubbing them together first.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086985</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086985</guid>
		<description>This site explains &quot;spin&quot; theory, complete with pictures:
http://ibrahimgedik.com/14onthermt.htm

If you want a perfect explanation of magnetism, you&#039;ll have to cover a lot of physics. Here is a link to a chart showing particles described by the Standard Model of particle physics:
http://bccp.lbl.gov/Academy/workshop08/08%20PDFs/chart_2006_4.jpg

Protons and Neutrons are types of baryons. Electric charge comes from combinations of quarks. The smallest of the familiar sub-atomic particles, the Electron, is a type of Lepton. Technically, the photon is also a type of particle (a boson)... but most people don&#039;t think of &#039;photons&#039; when they list sub-atomic particles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This site explains &#8220;spin&#8221; theory, complete with pictures:<br />
<a href="http://ibrahimgedik.com/14onthermt.htm" rel="nofollow">http://ibrahimgedik.com/14onthermt.htm</a></p>
<p>If you want a perfect explanation of magnetism, you&#8217;ll have to cover a lot of physics. Here is a link to a chart showing particles described by the Standard Model of particle physics:<br />
<a href="http://bccp.lbl.gov/Academy/workshop08/08%20PDFs/chart_2006_4.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://bccp.lbl.gov/Academy/workshop08/08%20PDFs/chart_2006_4.jpg</a></p>
<p>Protons and Neutrons are types of baryons. Electric charge comes from combinations of quarks. The smallest of the familiar sub-atomic particles, the Electron, is a type of Lepton. Technically, the photon is also a type of particle (a boson)&#8230; but most people don&#8217;t think of &#8216;photons&#8217; when they list sub-atomic particles.</p>
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		<title>By: SamSam</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086475</link>
		<dc:creator>SamSam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086475</guid>
		<description>So spin is a vector property, and rubbing a magnet on a nail will cause a bunch of electron spins to flip, as you say. But, as far as I&#039;ve been able to work out from what you&#039;re saying, spin&#039;s direction is binary -- it&#039;s either spinning clockwise or counterclockwise. But the direction of a field is not binary.

So if rubbing a magnet on a nail from top to bottom causes a bunch of electrons to switch to a counter-clockwise spin, what happens when I rub the magnet perpendicular to the main, making one &quot;side&quot; of the nail north, as opposed to one &quot;end.&quot;

This is why it made more sense to me to suggest that we are just changing the tilt of the (not-really) spinning teacups, instead of saying we were flipping their spin. But it seems that the spin is, in fact, changing direction.

So I&#039;m still confused. This may be the problem with analogies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So spin is a vector property, and rubbing a magnet on a nail will cause a bunch of electron spins to flip, as you say. But, as far as I&#8217;ve been able to work out from what you&#8217;re saying, spin&#8217;s direction is binary &#8212; it&#8217;s either spinning clockwise or counterclockwise. But the direction of a field is not binary.</p>
<p>So if rubbing a magnet on a nail from top to bottom causes a bunch of electrons to switch to a counter-clockwise spin, what happens when I rub the magnet perpendicular to the main, making one &#8220;side&#8221; of the nail north, as opposed to one &#8220;end.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is why it made more sense to me to suggest that we are just changing the tilt of the (not-really) spinning teacups, instead of saying we were flipping their spin. But it seems that the spin is, in fact, changing direction.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m still confused. This may be the problem with analogies.</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph Giles</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086479</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Giles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086479</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Plasmas aren&#039;t, so stuff like lightning and stars aren&#039;t made of atoms.&lt;/i&gt;

Plasmas are made of atoms where some (or all) of the electrons are free to move independently of the nuclei. Some of the teacups have come off the carousel, in other words. But it&#039;s still made up of positively charged proton-neutron balls and electrons.

The same thing happens in metals; some of the electrons in a bulk metal can freely flow from one nucleus to another. That&#039;s why metal conducts electricity.

So while plasma doesn&#039;t really fit the ponies-on-a-carousel model, it&#039;s still made up of the same stuff as everything else, just arranged a bit differently. At the level of &#039;everything is made of atoms!&#039; I think it&#039;s misleading to say plasma is any different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Plasmas aren&#8217;t, so stuff like lightning and stars aren&#8217;t made of atoms.</i></p>
<p>Plasmas are made of atoms where some (or all) of the electrons are free to move independently of the nuclei. Some of the teacups have come off the carousel, in other words. But it&#8217;s still made up of positively charged proton-neutron balls and electrons.</p>
<p>The same thing happens in metals; some of the electrons in a bulk metal can freely flow from one nucleus to another. That&#8217;s why metal conducts electricity.</p>
<p>So while plasma doesn&#8217;t really fit the ponies-on-a-carousel model, it&#8217;s still made up of the same stuff as everything else, just arranged a bit differently. At the level of &#8216;everything is made of atoms!&#8217; I think it&#8217;s misleading to say plasma is any different.</p>
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		<title>By: Onigorom</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086999</link>
		<dc:creator>Onigorom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086999</guid>
		<description>Why do magnets attract each other?
The answer, before any science sneaks in, is: Why not?
We take our fascination for attraction for granted in justifying a &#039;why&#039; question.
We ask &#039;why&#039; very often only in regard to phenomena that seem to challenge our usual experiences.
But from a certain point of view, everything can be &#039;why-ed&#039; â€“ even the scientific explanation for magnetism. &#039;Why&#039; as a concept certainly was not invented by scientists. It is not the question of cause and effect, &#039;why&#039; asks for more than that. It is more like: What is the point of it? And causality explains something different. Not the point of it, not the point of attraction, so to speak.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do magnets attract each other?<br />
The answer, before any science sneaks in, is: Why not?<br />
We take our fascination for attraction for granted in justifying a &#8216;why&#8217; question.<br />
We ask &#8216;why&#8217; very often only in regard to phenomena that seem to challenge our usual experiences.<br />
But from a certain point of view, everything can be &#8216;why-ed&#8217; â€“ even the scientific explanation for magnetism. &#8216;Why&#8217; as a concept certainly was not invented by scientists. It is not the question of cause and effect, &#8216;why&#8217; asks for more than that. It is more like: What is the point of it? And causality explains something different. Not the point of it, not the point of attraction, so to speak.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1088288</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1088288</guid>
		<description>This is something the western mind simply can&#039;t easily grasp.  &quot;Why&quot; just isn&#039;t applicable in some cases.  That is how your 3 year old kid beats your grown-ass to pulp in the &#039;why&#039; game.
Why = &quot;for what&quot;, as if there is a purpose.  Gravity isn&#039;t anything to philosophise over, it is the container we live in.  We can&#039;t be free from it, *ever*.  It is always there, even when you think you are floating in space, Alpha Centauri is pulling on you a little bit too.
Magetism and the other rules of physics are part of the same container.  Finding out more about it doesn&#039;t make it any different.  A Brick wall 10 feet away, keeping you inside your yard will still accomplish the same thing after you&#039;ve walked up and &quot;discovered&quot; that it is made up of cinder, and mortar, and gee, look at those wonderful tiny grains of sand in the mortar!
   Not to discount finding out more about these things.  Once you get bored in your container, you need to start beating your fists upon and scratching stuff.  All this science is just an extension of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is something the western mind simply can&#8217;t easily grasp.  &#8220;Why&#8221; just isn&#8217;t applicable in some cases.  That is how your 3 year old kid beats your grown-ass to pulp in the &#8216;why&#8217; game.<br />
Why = &#8220;for what&#8221;, as if there is a purpose.  Gravity isn&#8217;t anything to philosophise over, it is the container we live in.  We can&#8217;t be free from it, *ever*.  It is always there, even when you think you are floating in space, Alpha Centauri is pulling on you a little bit too.<br />
Magetism and the other rules of physics are part of the same container.  Finding out more about it doesn&#8217;t make it any different.  A Brick wall 10 feet away, keeping you inside your yard will still accomplish the same thing after you&#8217;ve walked up and &#8220;discovered&#8221; that it is made up of cinder, and mortar, and gee, look at those wonderful tiny grains of sand in the mortar!<br />
   Not to discount finding out more about these things.  Once you get bored in your container, you need to start beating your fists upon and scratching stuff.  All this science is just an extension of that.</p>
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		<title>By: sisyphus321</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086498</link>
		<dc:creator>sisyphus321</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086498</guid>
		<description>Thanks for an honest reply. What I have been able to gather from the discussion is that the state of knowledge about magnetism is essentially &quot;when we work the math out, there&#039;s this thing about electrons that has units of angular momentum, so we&#039;re going to call it &#039;spin&#039;, and that thing also shows up in the math when we talk about magnetism, but basically we don&#039;t know.&quot;  Which is at least honest, if not satisfying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for an honest reply. What I have been able to gather from the discussion is that the state of knowledge about magnetism is essentially &#8220;when we work the math out, there&#8217;s this thing about electrons that has units of angular momentum, so we&#8217;re going to call it &#8216;spin&#8217;, and that thing also shows up in the math when we talk about magnetism, but basically we don&#8217;t know.&#8221;  Which is at least honest, if not satisfying.</p>
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		<title>By: ROSSINDETROIT</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086500</link>
		<dc:creator>ROSSINDETROIT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086500</guid>
		<description>Metaphors are all useful up to a point.  Bulk charge flow in a conductor can be thought of like water for some purposes.  But when you ask why a germanium transistor (holds up 2n158) has a different junction voltage than a silicon transistor (holds up a970) the water metaphor won&#039;t give you an answer and you have to be more specific about the characteristics of particles.
That&#039;s why magnetism can&#039;t be explained in simple language.  The concepts represented by common English words are inadequate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Metaphors are all useful up to a point.  Bulk charge flow in a conductor can be thought of like water for some purposes.  But when you ask why a germanium transistor (holds up 2n158) has a different junction voltage than a silicon transistor (holds up a970) the water metaphor won&#8217;t give you an answer and you have to be more specific about the characteristics of particles.<br />
That&#8217;s why magnetism can&#8217;t be explained in simple language.  The concepts represented by common English words are inadequate.</p>
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		<title>By: DarthVain</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086501</link>
		<dc:creator>DarthVain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086501</guid>
		<description>My question is on &quot;Rare Earth&quot; magnets.

What are they and why are they and why do they have a so much stronger magnetic force?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My question is on &#8220;Rare Earth&#8221; magnets.</p>
<p>What are they and why are they and why do they have a so much stronger magnetic force?</p>
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		<title>By: jangusKhan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086506</link>
		<dc:creator>jangusKhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086506</guid>
		<description>Yeah! This is Joel from the article.

Basically, a ferromagnet (ferro = iron) is a permanent magnet that is dependent on the electron interactions mentioned in the article. By getting the domains to line up in the same direction, we can produce a strong magnetic field. The domains tend to reinforce each other and maintain &quot;order&quot; as long as stuff stays relatively undisturbed (heating ferromagnets past the &quot;Curie temperature&quot; of the magnet starts to jostle the domains out of synch). 

An electromagnet is the result of current flowing through a wire. This phenomenon is actually related to another deep truth in physics: electricity and magnetism are basically the same thing; which one you experience depends on your frame of reference. Basically, when electricity moves/flows, it produces a magnetic field. When magnets move or change strength, it produces an electric field. In an electromagnet, the flow of electricity around a coil of wire produces a magnet. In the ferromagnet, the &quot;spin&quot; of the electrons produces a magnet. Either way, we have electron motion producing the field.

TL;DR - Motion of electrons produces a magnetic field. If you turn off the current/flow, then the magnet turns off too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah! This is Joel from the article.</p>
<p>Basically, a ferromagnet (ferro = iron) is a permanent magnet that is dependent on the electron interactions mentioned in the article. By getting the domains to line up in the same direction, we can produce a strong magnetic field. The domains tend to reinforce each other and maintain &#8220;order&#8221; as long as stuff stays relatively undisturbed (heating ferromagnets past the &#8220;Curie temperature&#8221; of the magnet starts to jostle the domains out of synch). </p>
<p>An electromagnet is the result of current flowing through a wire. This phenomenon is actually related to another deep truth in physics: electricity and magnetism are basically the same thing; which one you experience depends on your frame of reference. Basically, when electricity moves/flows, it produces a magnetic field. When magnets move or change strength, it produces an electric field. In an electromagnet, the flow of electricity around a coil of wire produces a magnet. In the ferromagnet, the &#8220;spin&#8221; of the electrons produces a magnet. Either way, we have electron motion producing the field.</p>
<p>TL;DR &#8211; Motion of electrons produces a magnetic field. If you turn off the current/flow, then the magnet turns off too.</p>
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		<title>By: Cola</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086765</link>
		<dc:creator>Cola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086765</guid>
		<description>You beat me to it.

The whole point of that song is &quot;...fuck science because I don&#039;t want to know how shit works.&quot; It&#039;s a fundamentally incurious mindset, and we don&#039;t owe them any kind of apology for wearing their ignorance with pride.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You beat me to it.</p>
<p>The whole point of that song is &#8220;&#8230;fuck science because I don&#8217;t want to know how shit works.&#8221; It&#8217;s a fundamentally incurious mindset, and we don&#8217;t owe them any kind of apology for wearing their ignorance with pride.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086510</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086510</guid>
		<description>Riddle me this:  We put magnets in a generator, and then when we spin the shaft, we pull off electricity as the coils cross the lines of magnetic flux.  So, why don&#039;t the magnets in a generator get weaker even when I&#039;m pulling 100,000 watts out of my little gennie in the back of my truck?  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Riddle me this:  We put magnets in a generator, and then when we spin the shaft, we pull off electricity as the coils cross the lines of magnetic flux.  So, why don&#8217;t the magnets in a generator get weaker even when I&#8217;m pulling 100,000 watts out of my little gennie in the back of my truck?  </p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1090609</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1090609</guid>
		<description>If frogs can be magnetised - then so can cats !
You just need 16 Tesla or so !
http://www.ru.nl/hfml/research/levitation/diamagnetic/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If frogs can be magnetised &#8211; then so can cats !<br />
You just need 16 Tesla or so !<br />
<a href="http://www.ru.nl/hfml/research/levitation/diamagnetic/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ru.nl/hfml/research/levitation/diamagnetic/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Mol</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086515</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Mol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086515</guid>
		<description>Next questions:

Why do electrons have spin? What is it about that particular triplet of quarks gives it to them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Next questions:</p>
<p>Why do electrons have spin? What is it about that particular triplet of quarks gives it to them?</p>
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		<title>By: teufelsdroch</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1088307</link>
		<dc:creator>teufelsdroch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1088307</guid>
		<description>I read this as &#039;does the torque on a single spinning electron equal that of a certain non-spinning electron moving in a circle?&#039;

Course it does. 

If you take the electron&#039;s velocity as &#039;c&#039; (as you do) it happens when

r(m_e)(c)/hbar = 1/2

or

radius of orbit = hbar / 2(m_e)c = 1.9e-13 m. &#039;bout a hundred times thicker than a proton.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_magnetic_dipole_moment

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read this as &#8216;does the torque on a single spinning electron equal that of a certain non-spinning electron moving in a circle?&#8217;</p>
<p>Course it does. </p>
<p>If you take the electron&#8217;s velocity as &#8216;c&#8217; (as you do) it happens when</p>
<p>r(m_e)(c)/hbar = 1/2</p>
<p>or</p>
<p>radius of orbit = hbar / 2(m_e)c = 1.9e-13 m. &#8217;bout a hundred times thicker than a proton.</p>
<p>See: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_magnetic_dipole_moment" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_magnetic_dipole_moment</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1091124</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1091124</guid>
		<description>BUT WHAT IS SPIN? 
Love, a thirteen year old who understood magnetism until just now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BUT WHAT IS SPIN?<br />
Love, a thirteen year old who understood magnetism until just now.</p>
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		<title>By: jangusKhan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086518</link>
		<dc:creator>jangusKhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086518</guid>
		<description>This is Joel from the article. I&#039;ll see what I can do here; I&#039;m not totally sure what your asking.

Every electron has an intrinsic magnetic moment which is the result of this quantity we call &quot;spin&quot;. As mentioned in the article, this cannot possible be actual, physical spin, because the calculations of its velocity produce values higher than the speed of light. Even so, the magnetic properties of the electron are very similar to a charged object that is spinning in place: it has a magnetic moment (strength and orientation) that is measurable in the lab.

In most materials, the valid orbitals for electrons to fill produce electron pairs whose spins are opposed. That is, their magnetic moments cancel each other out, leaving the effective amount of magnetism at zero. However, the way electrons fill orbitals is not as simple as filling a bookshelf. Electrons always fill the lowest energy level first, and due to orbital interactions this produces some unexpected results. In iron, cobalt, and nickel (mostly iron), there is an unpaired electron that results in a small net magnetic field. Also, in order to produce strong magnetic fields overall, the individual atoms must be highly organized, crystalline in structure, like iron and some iron compounds.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is Joel from the article. I&#8217;ll see what I can do here; I&#8217;m not totally sure what your asking.</p>
<p>Every electron has an intrinsic magnetic moment which is the result of this quantity we call &#8220;spin&#8221;. As mentioned in the article, this cannot possible be actual, physical spin, because the calculations of its velocity produce values higher than the speed of light. Even so, the magnetic properties of the electron are very similar to a charged object that is spinning in place: it has a magnetic moment (strength and orientation) that is measurable in the lab.</p>
<p>In most materials, the valid orbitals for electrons to fill produce electron pairs whose spins are opposed. That is, their magnetic moments cancel each other out, leaving the effective amount of magnetism at zero. However, the way electrons fill orbitals is not as simple as filling a bookshelf. Electrons always fill the lowest energy level first, and due to orbital interactions this produces some unexpected results. In iron, cobalt, and nickel (mostly iron), there is an unpaired electron that results in a small net magnetic field. Also, in order to produce strong magnetic fields overall, the individual atoms must be highly organized, crystalline in structure, like iron and some iron compounds.</p>
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		<title>By: bnprime</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086519</link>
		<dc:creator>bnprime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086519</guid>
		<description>magnets are fun, but i think that the &quot;how to they work&quot; and &quot;why  do they work&quot; questions are different. the &quot;how&quot; question demands an intuitive understanding, while the &quot;why&quot; question demands a first principles approach.

so i think it just confuses and discourages people when they ask &quot;how do they work&quot; and we physicists start going on about electron spin. 

so, i wrote a post about it explaining how magnets work in terms of awesome fans: 

http://paleocave.sciencesortof.com/2010/11/fcking-magnets-how-do-they-work/

yeah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>magnets are fun, but i think that the &#8220;how to they work&#8221; and &#8220;why  do they work&#8221; questions are different. the &#8220;how&#8221; question demands an intuitive understanding, while the &#8220;why&#8221; question demands a first principles approach.</p>
<p>so i think it just confuses and discourages people when they ask &#8220;how do they work&#8221; and we physicists start going on about electron spin. </p>
<p>so, i wrote a post about it explaining how magnets work in terms of awesome fans: </p>
<p><a href="http://paleocave.sciencesortof.com/2010/11/fcking-magnets-how-do-they-work/" rel="nofollow">http://paleocave.sciencesortof.com/2010/11/fcking-magnets-how-do-they-work/</a></p>
<p>yeah.</p>
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		<title>By: chenille</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086778</link>
		<dc:creator>chenille</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086778</guid>
		<description>Sooner or later any line of questioning is going to run into something that simply is. If you&#039;re satisfied with explaining gravity by bending 3-D space, though, you can also get electric fields in a very natural way by looking at bending 4-D space. This is the approach taken by models like string theory to explain forces, but it&#039;s still being worked out.

If you take attraction and repulsion of electric charges for granted, though, magnetism automatically shows up as what that looks like when they move. Something sitting in place is on a path through time, and something moving is one one through time and space. By relativity, though those are just different directions; you can do a space-time rotation to turn one into the other.

What we find is that the field a charge generates also has a direction through space-time. If a charge is sitting there, only moving through time, that field will also point straight into time. A second stationary charge will only feel a push or pull based on that same component, which is what we&#039;ve named the electric potential.

The situation where they&#039;re moving is the same, but rotated. Now the charge is going through time and space, so besides the part of the field pointing into time there are extra space parts. And a second charge also moving through space and time is going to feel forces based on them, because rotate back to its perspective and they become time again.

Those extra components are what we call magnetism; you get them straight out of rotating Coulomb&#039;s Law. Unfortunately the math is hard to follow intuitively, because these aren&#039;t ordinary Euclidean rotations. Even so, I hope that gives some idea why there should be an extra force associated with currents and spins. Relativity actually gives similar results for gravity, but most of the time you never see anything both heavy and fast enough to notice it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sooner or later any line of questioning is going to run into something that simply is. If you&#8217;re satisfied with explaining gravity by bending 3-D space, though, you can also get electric fields in a very natural way by looking at bending 4-D space. This is the approach taken by models like string theory to explain forces, but it&#8217;s still being worked out.</p>
<p>If you take attraction and repulsion of electric charges for granted, though, magnetism automatically shows up as what that looks like when they move. Something sitting in place is on a path through time, and something moving is one one through time and space. By relativity, though those are just different directions; you can do a space-time rotation to turn one into the other.</p>
<p>What we find is that the field a charge generates also has a direction through space-time. If a charge is sitting there, only moving through time, that field will also point straight into time. A second stationary charge will only feel a push or pull based on that same component, which is what we&#8217;ve named the electric potential.</p>
<p>The situation where they&#8217;re moving is the same, but rotated. Now the charge is going through time and space, so besides the part of the field pointing into time there are extra space parts. And a second charge also moving through space and time is going to feel forces based on them, because rotate back to its perspective and they become time again.</p>
<p>Those extra components are what we call magnetism; you get them straight out of rotating Coulomb&#8217;s Law. Unfortunately the math is hard to follow intuitively, because these aren&#8217;t ordinary Euclidean rotations. Even so, I hope that gives some idea why there should be an extra force associated with currents and spins. Relativity actually gives similar results for gravity, but most of the time you never see anything both heavy and fast enough to notice it.</p>
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		<title>By: teufelsdroch</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1088316</link>
		<dc:creator>teufelsdroch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1088316</guid>
		<description>Oh fer crissakes. Everything Feynman says should be taken with a very big grain of salt. Einstein didn&#039;t mean that there was a God when he said god doesn&#039;t play dice, and Feynman didn&#039;t mean there was no explanation of magnetism when he clearly got caught unprepared by this journalist&#039;s question.

Gravity bloody well is something to philosophize over, and &#039;because objects move in straight paths in curved space&#039; is as good as it gets.

Magnetism occurs when charged particles move. Yeah, okay, Feynman meant that he could describe how electric and magnetic fields were exchangeable, describe how replacing the normal concept of energy (schrodinger) with relativistic energy (dirac) can be approximated as spin, and finally describe the difference between electric and magnetic fields in QED--and the average listener wouldn&#039;t follow.

But please understand. The point is that the explanation is one that YOU WOULDN&#039;T UNDERSTAND, not one that DOESN&#039;T EXIST. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh fer crissakes. Everything Feynman says should be taken with a very big grain of salt. Einstein didn&#8217;t mean that there was a God when he said god doesn&#8217;t play dice, and Feynman didn&#8217;t mean there was no explanation of magnetism when he clearly got caught unprepared by this journalist&#8217;s question.</p>
<p>Gravity bloody well is something to philosophize over, and &#8216;because objects move in straight paths in curved space&#8217; is as good as it gets.</p>
<p>Magnetism occurs when charged particles move. Yeah, okay, Feynman meant that he could describe how electric and magnetic fields were exchangeable, describe how replacing the normal concept of energy (schrodinger) with relativistic energy (dirac) can be approximated as spin, and finally describe the difference between electric and magnetic fields in QED&#8211;and the average listener wouldn&#8217;t follow.</p>
<p>But please understand. The point is that the explanation is one that YOU WOULDN&#8217;T UNDERSTAND, not one that DOESN&#8217;T EXIST. </p>
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		<title>By: jangusKhan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086526</link>
		<dc:creator>jangusKhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086526</guid>
		<description>Hey, this is Joel from the article.

Electrons actually aren&#039;t made of quarks. They are leptons, which like quarks are considered &quot;fundamental&quot; particles. String theory posits that electrons and quarks are actually loops of energy vibrating away, but we haven&#039;t proven this yet.

Spin is a &quot;quantum number&quot;. A value that we assign to particles of different types that helps us distinguish them. Asking &quot;What is spin?&quot; is like asking &quot;what is mass?&quot; My point is that it&#039;s a good, nay, GREAT question, but one that I don&#039;t think I can really give you an answer to.

What I CAN say, is that we call it spin for a few reasons. Angular momentum is a measurable value related to objects which are spinning in place. Through extensive experimentation, physicists discovered that individual electrons seem to have a specific amount of intrinsic angular momentum. Also, they&#039;ve shown that electrons have a magnetic moment (related to the discussion above) that would be characteristic of a charged object that is spinning around an axis. Unfortunately, calculating how fast the electron would have to be spinning in order to produce the values we find in the lab (based on it&#039;s mass and distinguishable size) produces numbers in excess of the speed of light. This doesn&#039;t mesh with our understanding of relativity, so at this point we just say that it has spin 1/2 and move on. Other particles have spin too: photons are spin 1, neutrons are spin 1/2, quarks are spin 1/2. In fact, we can separate all particles into 2 groups, bosons who have integer spin, and fermions who have spin 1/2. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, this is Joel from the article.</p>
<p>Electrons actually aren&#8217;t made of quarks. They are leptons, which like quarks are considered &#8220;fundamental&#8221; particles. String theory posits that electrons and quarks are actually loops of energy vibrating away, but we haven&#8217;t proven this yet.</p>
<p>Spin is a &#8220;quantum number&#8221;. A value that we assign to particles of different types that helps us distinguish them. Asking &#8220;What is spin?&#8221; is like asking &#8220;what is mass?&#8221; My point is that it&#8217;s a good, nay, GREAT question, but one that I don&#8217;t think I can really give you an answer to.</p>
<p>What I CAN say, is that we call it spin for a few reasons. Angular momentum is a measurable value related to objects which are spinning in place. Through extensive experimentation, physicists discovered that individual electrons seem to have a specific amount of intrinsic angular momentum. Also, they&#8217;ve shown that electrons have a magnetic moment (related to the discussion above) that would be characteristic of a charged object that is spinning around an axis. Unfortunately, calculating how fast the electron would have to be spinning in order to produce the values we find in the lab (based on it&#8217;s mass and distinguishable size) produces numbers in excess of the speed of light. This doesn&#8217;t mesh with our understanding of relativity, so at this point we just say that it has spin 1/2 and move on. Other particles have spin too: photons are spin 1, neutrons are spin 1/2, quarks are spin 1/2. In fact, we can separate all particles into 2 groups, bosons who have integer spin, and fermions who have spin 1/2. </p>
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		<title>By: francoisroux</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1087300</link>
		<dc:creator>francoisroux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1087300</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure someone already said, &quot;But why&quot;, but you have to already have a certain level of understanding of all or many things for that to be the first level of why. If you don&#039;t even know what some of the words mean it&#039;ll be to the power of infinity level of why to you.

It&#039;s a very good explanation though, probably better than the explanation our science teacher in high school gave us and had us gasping for air after the first 5 minutes...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure someone already said, &#8220;But why&#8221;, but you have to already have a certain level of understanding of all or many things for that to be the first level of why. If you don&#8217;t even know what some of the words mean it&#8217;ll be to the power of infinity level of why to you.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a very good explanation though, probably better than the explanation our science teacher in high school gave us and had us gasping for air after the first 5 minutes&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Mol</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086791</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Mol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086791</guid>
		<description>This one I might be able to answer a part of, based on the electronics course I took when I started college, with a synthesis of some of the stuff described above. As I got to the end of writing it, though, I felt like I was drifting off into la-la land. Any studied folk spot anything recognizable or simply wrong in it, please point it out.

Magnetic field lines, I was told, are thought of as a static &#039;circuit&#039; of photons. Based an above description of spin, it doesn&#039;t seem wrong to thing of this &#039;circuit&#039; as inexhaustible, as it&#039;s not a transfer of something from one place to another. It seems like it&#039;s more a static wave.

These circuits desire to be as short as they can, but that depends on the permeability of the material they&#039;re passing through. Materials with high permeability will allow the field to pass through in a more concentrated fashion, which allows a particular path parallel to the shape of the field to be shorter.

I expect that it&#039;s the attraction of two opposite magnetic poles which causes a pull between all electrons in the field. Think about an electric circuit. Any two points in the circuit have a potential relative to each other, but you can take your voltage source and simplify your view of the circuit by collapsing components directly attached to it into your unitary view of it (assuming there are no other components directly attached to it).

If you take that integration of components and consider each particle on the magnetic circuit to be a component of that circuit, then you can think of of any group of particles as a single one, and think of each group of particles attracting the next group along the circuit.

As these particles get closer to each other, their pull on each other increases (hiya, inverse square law!). As their pull increases, they tend to get closer, so it&#039;s a self-reinforcing.

Where does the initial movement come from, though? At a guess, I might point at temperature vibration, or possibly this &#039;vibration&#039; that is described by string theory. Anything that causes things to be non-static in a static frame of reference might suffice. (Which is curious, actually...if a vibration is perpendicular to the direction of the magnetic field, it wouldn&#039;t have an effect in bringing the component closer or farther away. If it were in any component parallel (my geometry terminology is almost gone, sorry), the magnetic field might represent a resistance or inertia against movement away, but not towards, and thus the actual force viewed would be the aggregation of the vibrating energy)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This one I might be able to answer a part of, based on the electronics course I took when I started college, with a synthesis of some of the stuff described above. As I got to the end of writing it, though, I felt like I was drifting off into la-la land. Any studied folk spot anything recognizable or simply wrong in it, please point it out.</p>
<p>Magnetic field lines, I was told, are thought of as a static &#8216;circuit&#8217; of photons. Based an above description of spin, it doesn&#8217;t seem wrong to thing of this &#8216;circuit&#8217; as inexhaustible, as it&#8217;s not a transfer of something from one place to another. It seems like it&#8217;s more a static wave.</p>
<p>These circuits desire to be as short as they can, but that depends on the permeability of the material they&#8217;re passing through. Materials with high permeability will allow the field to pass through in a more concentrated fashion, which allows a particular path parallel to the shape of the field to be shorter.</p>
<p>I expect that it&#8217;s the attraction of two opposite magnetic poles which causes a pull between all electrons in the field. Think about an electric circuit. Any two points in the circuit have a potential relative to each other, but you can take your voltage source and simplify your view of the circuit by collapsing components directly attached to it into your unitary view of it (assuming there are no other components directly attached to it).</p>
<p>If you take that integration of components and consider each particle on the magnetic circuit to be a component of that circuit, then you can think of of any group of particles as a single one, and think of each group of particles attracting the next group along the circuit.</p>
<p>As these particles get closer to each other, their pull on each other increases (hiya, inverse square law!). As their pull increases, they tend to get closer, so it&#8217;s a self-reinforcing.</p>
<p>Where does the initial movement come from, though? At a guess, I might point at temperature vibration, or possibly this &#8216;vibration&#8217; that is described by string theory. Anything that causes things to be non-static in a static frame of reference might suffice. (Which is curious, actually&#8230;if a vibration is perpendicular to the direction of the magnetic field, it wouldn&#8217;t have an effect in bringing the component closer or farther away. If it were in any component parallel (my geometry terminology is almost gone, sorry), the magnetic field might represent a resistance or inertia against movement away, but not towards, and thus the actual force viewed would be the aggregation of the vibrating energy)</p>
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		<title>By: teufelsdroch</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1088327</link>
		<dc:creator>teufelsdroch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1088327</guid>
		<description>Too rude, sorry.

Feynman acknowledges that any explanation he gave would be a &lt;A href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie-to-children&quot;&gt;lie-to-children&lt;/A&gt;. 

It upsets me when people mistake this for saying that there is no answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too rude, sorry.</p>
<p>Feynman acknowledges that any explanation he gave would be a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie-to-children">lie-to-children</a>. </p>
<p>It upsets me when people mistake this for saying that there is no answer.</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph Giles</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086538</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Giles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086538</guid>
		<description>&quot;Rare Earth&quot; elements are those from the Lanthanide series, the upper of the two extra rows you see at the bottom of a periodic table. Neodymium is the most popular one.

These make for especially strong magnets because the particular crystal structure of the rare-earth alloys makes it possible to lock more of the domains pointing in the same direction than in other materials. In Joel&#039;s metaphor, the &quot;squabbling city states&quot;, once aligned by a strong leader, are especially resistant to post-revolutionary political change.

Since more of the domains align together, they add up to larger macroscopic magnetic field.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Rare Earth&#8221; elements are those from the Lanthanide series, the upper of the two extra rows you see at the bottom of a periodic table. Neodymium is the most popular one.</p>
<p>These make for especially strong magnets because the particular crystal structure of the rare-earth alloys makes it possible to lock more of the domains pointing in the same direction than in other materials. In Joel&#8217;s metaphor, the &#8220;squabbling city states&#8221;, once aligned by a strong leader, are especially resistant to post-revolutionary political change.</p>
<p>Since more of the domains align together, they add up to larger macroscopic magnetic field.</p>
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		<title>By: jangusKhan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086540</link>
		<dc:creator>jangusKhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086540</guid>
		<description>Great question! This is Joel from the article.

Rare earth magnets are alloys of iron and one of the elements from the &quot;rare earth&quot; group on the periodic table. Most of the time, if you have a rare earth magnet, it is a combination of iron and neodymium, and boron. Some of these rare earth elements make good ferromagnets, but only at temperatures much colder than people usually live at. By combining them with other ferromagnetic elements, they produce extra strong permanent magnets. I guess you can think of it like a &quot;magnetic alloy&quot; that is a stronger magnet than its parts alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great question! This is Joel from the article.</p>
<p>Rare earth magnets are alloys of iron and one of the elements from the &#8220;rare earth&#8221; group on the periodic table. Most of the time, if you have a rare earth magnet, it is a combination of iron and neodymium, and boron. Some of these rare earth elements make good ferromagnets, but only at temperatures much colder than people usually live at. By combining them with other ferromagnetic elements, they produce extra strong permanent magnets. I guess you can think of it like a &#8220;magnetic alloy&#8221; that is a stronger magnet than its parts alone.</p>
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		<title>By: jangusKhan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086543</link>
		<dc:creator>jangusKhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086543</guid>
		<description>This is great, I lol&#039;ed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is great, I lol&#8217;ed.</p>
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		<title>By: daen</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1086803</link>
		<dc:creator>daen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1086803</guid>
		<description>Great stuff, Maggie!  It&#039;s also rather mind-boggling how the charge of every electron (and every proton, for that matter) is (as far as we know) exactly the same for every one of the little buggers throughout the universe.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great stuff, Maggie!  It&#8217;s also rather mind-boggling how the charge of every electron (and every proton, for that matter) is (as far as we know) exactly the same for every one of the little buggers throughout the universe.  </p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/04/19/science-question-fro-8.html#comment-1087063</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1087063</guid>
		<description>Surely asking any non-rhetorical question is by definition ignorant? How would one progress from ignorance to knowledge without asking questions?

[I find it very strange to be speaking about non-rhetorical questions while only using rhetorical questions. My head is beginning to hurt, I think I&#039;ll go and have a lie-down before I find myself thinking about recursion and thinking about thinking about recursion.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surely asking any non-rhetorical question is by definition ignorant? How would one progress from ignorance to knowledge without asking questions?</p>
<p>[I find it very strange to be speaking about non-rhetorical questions while only using rhetorical questions. My head is beginning to hurt, I think I'll go and have a lie-down before I find myself thinking about recursion and thinking about thinking about recursion.]</p>
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