Comments on: Do bacteria control your brain? http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Thu, 20 Jun 2013 12:08:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1088257 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1088257 reminds me of that Futurama episode where Fry becomes smarter with intestinal parasites, but kills them off to preserve his original personality. reminds me of that Futurama episode where Fry becomes smarter with intestinal parasites, but kills them off to preserve his original personality.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1091081 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1091081 I agree that there is a reason for this, which can be explained by evolution. The mice with the gut flora were a bit "apprehensive" because this optimizes their chances of survival. I agree that there is a reason for this, which can be explained by evolution. The mice with the gut flora were a bit “apprehensive” because this optimizes their chances of survival.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1088014 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1088014 what i beleive this really implies is that lack of gut bacteria after birth (usually transferd in the mothers milk) creates a specimen that does more "risky" behavior which means that it is more likely to die but also more likely if it doesn't to pass those genes on to its offspring however on the flip side of the coin with the natural bacteria in the gut of said animals causes them to seek less risky behavior and more protective behavior.. what this means evolutionarily is unknown to me but is quite interesting what i beleive this really implies is that lack of gut bacteria after birth (usually transferd in the mothers milk) creates a specimen that does more “risky” behavior which means that it is more likely to die but also more likely if it doesn’t to pass those genes on to its offspring however on the flip side of the coin with the natural bacteria in the gut of said animals causes them to seek less risky behavior and more protective behavior.. what this means evolutionarily is unknown to me but is quite interesting

]]> By: bklynchris http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1088535 bklynchris Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1088535 Hi Anon, Here are a few articles on the importance of healthy gut flora. I think the first one is pretty convincing that it was of life and deathimportance for at least one person. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/science/13micro.html?scp=6&sq=clostridium&st=cse# http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/07/14/1005963107.abstract On a side note, everyone seems to be in agreement that science is of particular interest to BB readers and yet we also seemed compelled to attack it when it, it, it what? Is presented here? We are a pretty fickle bunch. Hi Anon, Here are a few articles on the importance of healthy gut flora. I think the first one is pretty convincing that it was of life and deathimportance for at least one person.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/science/13micro.html?scp=6&sq=clostridium&st=cse#

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/07/14/1005963107.abstract

On a side note, everyone seems to be in agreement that science is of particular interest to BB readers and yet we also seemed compelled to attack it when it, it, it what? Is presented here? We are a pretty fickle bunch.

]]> By: snarf http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1087781 snarf Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1087781 It appears it is time to bring out the tinfoil pants. It appears it is time to bring out the tinfoil pants.

]]> By: sally599 http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1087784 sally599 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1087784 It's standard---the colonies get established and maintained that way---the pregnant mice get a C-section, babies get dipped in something to kill external microbes(bleach) then they get moved into germ-free housing a la bubble boy. Looking for colonization is just plating or rich media, which is done routinely because there can be accidental colonization---since everything everywhere is coated in germs. Still I would not worry about this we evolved in the presence of these microbes, the neural trends in the colonized mice are the norm and not those in the uncolonized mice. They make it sound bad but if you're a prey item you need to have a certain amount of anxiety to live to reproduce. It’s standard—the colonies get established and maintained that way—the pregnant mice get a C-section, babies get dipped in something to kill external microbes(bleach) then they get moved into germ-free housing a la bubble boy. Looking for colonization is just plating or rich media, which is done routinely because there can be accidental colonization—since everything everywhere is coated in germs.

Still I would not worry about this we evolved in the presence of these microbes, the neural trends in the colonized mice are the norm and not those in the uncolonized mice. They make it sound bad but if you’re a prey item you need to have a certain amount of anxiety to live to reproduce.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1088301 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1088301 And what of the claims that GMO plant DNA can migrate to human gut bacteria? This is your brain on Monsanto.... And what of the claims that GMO plant DNA can migrate to human gut bacteria?

This is your brain on Monsanto….

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1088051 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1088051 Actually, most studies indicate that tinfoil hats actually act as amplifiers to the wave lengths they are supposed to protect against, unless you go far enough to make a true Faraday cage out of the foil. A copper foil hat is supposed to be a better choice, but really, who wants to be so tacky as to wear copper foil? It's so ... tacky. Actually, most studies indicate that tinfoil hats actually act as amplifiers to the wave lengths they are supposed to protect against, unless you go far enough to make a true Faraday cage out of the foil.

A copper foil hat is supposed to be a better choice, but really, who wants to be so tacky as to wear copper foil? It’s so … tacky.

]]> By: naturegrrl http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1087799 naturegrrl Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1087799 pretty much all organisms are simply habitat for smaller organisms. in the fungal endophyte symbioses my lab studies, fungi turn various genes on and off (we're interested in stress response) in inoculated plants compared to sterilized plants. considering that the "normal gut microflora" are not pathogenic but form a positive symbiosis with animal hosts, it is unlikely that any changes they are making to our gene expression are harmful. it is more likely that without "normal" (whatever that means; i'm pretty sure we can't define it yet) microbial symbionts, "normal" gene expression is less likely resulting in negative health effects. pretty much all organisms are simply habitat for smaller organisms. in the fungal endophyte symbioses my lab studies, fungi turn various genes on and off (we’re interested in stress response) in inoculated plants compared to sterilized plants. considering that the “normal gut microflora” are not pathogenic but form a positive symbiosis with animal hosts, it is unlikely that any changes they are making to our gene expression are harmful. it is more likely that without “normal” (whatever that means; i’m pretty sure we can’t define it yet) microbial symbionts, “normal” gene expression is less likely resulting in negative health effects.

]]> By: ill lich http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1087800 ill lich Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1087800 I for one welcome our new bacteria overlords (sorry, they made me say that.) I for one welcome our new bacteria overlords (sorry, they made me say that.)

]]> By: Kaboom http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1088312 Kaboom Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1088312 Here's a blog post from months ago, that even back then was paranoid about bacteria controlling the brain: http://larryrusswurm.com/2010/11/17/squealing-on-my-bacteria-and-virus-overlords/ Here’s a blog post from months ago, that even back then was paranoid about bacteria controlling the brain: http://larryrusswurm.com/2010/11/17/squealing-on-my-bacteria-and-virus-overlords/

]]> By: SamSam http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1087801 SamSam Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1087801 Is there any chance that the mice without bacteria are less-able to digest nutrients, and so it would be to their advantage to be bolder in searching for food, as they'll need more? If this made sense, then it might be equally likely that evolution would select for mice whose boldness-genes are switched on if they have a lack of bacteria during development, as they might otherwise be at a disadvantage during their lives. Is there any chance that the mice without bacteria are less-able to digest nutrients, and so it would be to their advantage to be bolder in searching for food, as they’ll need more?

If this made sense, then it might be equally likely that evolution would select for mice whose boldness-genes are switched on if they have a lack of bacteria during development, as they might otherwise be at a disadvantage during their lives.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1088057 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1088057 Reminds me of the story where they were testing telekinesis in mice, (mentally turn the dial) so they never found the telepathic hypnosis (make the scientist turn up the dial) Best argument on correlation and causation *evar*. (sic) Reminds me of the story where they were testing telekinesis in mice, (mentally turn the dial) so they never found the telepathic hypnosis (make the scientist turn up the dial)

Best argument on correlation and causation *evar*. (sic)

]]> By: xian http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1087805 xian Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1087805 So Colbert was right! So Colbert was right!

]]> By: mn_camera http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1088582 mn_camera Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1088582 <blockquote>Actually, most studies indicate that tinfoil hats actually act as amplifiers to the wave lengths they are supposed to protect against, unless you go far enough to make a true Faraday cage out of the foil.</blockquote> Two words: Ground cable.

Actually, most studies indicate that tinfoil hats actually act as amplifiers to the wave lengths they are supposed to protect against, unless you go far enough to make a true Faraday cage out of the foil.

Two words: Ground cable.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1088072 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1088072 There was a recent Freakonomics podcast on "transpoosions", fecal transplants. So we could find someone with the optimal microbial organ, and harvest their feces. Offer everyone an enema of said feces, and... voila! Wonder who that would be... There was a recent Freakonomics podcast on “transpoosions”, fecal transplants. So we could find someone with the optimal microbial organ, and harvest their feces. Offer everyone an enema of said feces, and… voila!
Wonder who that would be…

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1088588 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1088588 That's what you <i>do</i> with science: attack it, and see what stands up to criticism. Doubly so with this kind science reporting, which sometimes slants the result, and quadruply so with mainstream science reporting, which often misses the result entirely. That’s what you do with science: attack it, and see what stands up to criticism. Doubly so with this kind science reporting, which sometimes slants the result, and quadruply so with mainstream science reporting, which often misses the result entirely.

]]> By: dancentury http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1087836 dancentury Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1087836 Oh my gosh, just look at those things! My brain is filled with gray Cheetos! Oh my gosh, just look at those things! My brain is filled with gray Cheetos!

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1087843 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1087843 'You could argue, for example, that the brain is a gadget evolved by the stomach, in order to serve the stomach for the purposes of getting food. Or you can argue that the stomach is a gadget evolved by the brain to feed it and keep it alive. Whose game is this? Is it the brain's game, or the stomach's game? They're mutual. The brain implies the stomach and the stomach implies the brain, and neither of them is the boss.' - Alan Watts, the Nature of Consciousness, 1960 ‘You could argue, for example, that the brain is a gadget evolved by the stomach, in order to serve the stomach for the purposes of getting food. Or you can argue that the stomach is a gadget evolved by the brain to feed it and keep it alive. Whose game is this? Is it the brain’s game, or the stomach’s game? They’re mutual. The brain implies the stomach and the stomach implies the brain, and neither of them is the boss.’ – Alan Watts, the Nature of Consciousness, 1960

]]> By: sally599 http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1087590 sally599 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1087590 It's not like we have any choice in the matter so I wouldn't characterize it as accepting anything so much as dealing with the reality that is available. It’s not like we have any choice in the matter so I wouldn’t characterize it as accepting anything so much as dealing with the reality that is available.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1087846 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1087846 Similar research has noted that gut critters of obese people may be different - either cause or effect or simply correlation. Anyway, what about vegetarians, vegans, etc vs omnivores of various styles (classic american diet, people who like meat but eat rarely, etc)? If these gut critters do have an effect on our minds, perhaps we should investigate the populations that occur with different diets. Do diets correlate with critter types? Do diets/critter-types correlate with higher level thinking or lower level behavior? Sounds like a great project for DIY Bio folks. A lot better than gen engineering new characteristics into bacteria, etc. Or perhaps those go hand in hand... What genetic traits in gut bacteria cause the brain/behavior? Can those be xfered to other bactiera from other diets? Does that change thinking so people change their diet? Maybe this is how the hive mind gets extended? Maybe we get a bacteria-computer interface to push along The Singularity? Similar research has noted that gut critters of obese people may be different – either cause or effect or simply correlation. Anyway, what about vegetarians, vegans, etc vs omnivores of various styles (classic american diet, people who like meat but eat rarely, etc)? If these gut critters do have an effect on our minds, perhaps we should investigate the populations that occur with different diets. Do diets correlate with critter types? Do diets/critter-types correlate with higher level thinking or lower level behavior?

Sounds like a great project for DIY Bio folks. A lot better than gen engineering new characteristics into bacteria, etc. Or perhaps those go hand in hand…

What genetic traits in gut bacteria cause the brain/behavior? Can those be xfered to other bactiera from other diets? Does that change thinking so people change their diet?

Maybe this is how the hive mind gets extended? Maybe we get a bacteria-computer interface to push along The Singularity?

]]> By: julianafanana http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1089897 julianafanana Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1089897 Thanks for the explanation. I work with marine microbes and used to work in pathogens, so I understand the ubiquity and necessity for microbes. I just didn't understand how they were able to TOTALLY sterilize a living organism. Good to know. :) Thanks for the explanation. I work with marine microbes and used to work in pathogens, so I understand the ubiquity and necessity for microbes. I just didn’t understand how they were able to TOTALLY sterilize a living organism. Good to know. :)

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1087602 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1087602 I find this interesting as there have been links between gut bacteria and Autism as well. This would explain only some of the links between gut illnesses like IBS, Crones and Colitis and Autism as well. I find this interesting as there have been links between gut bacteria and Autism as well. This would explain only some of the links between gut illnesses like IBS, Crones and Colitis and Autism as well.

]]> By: millrick http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1087604 millrick Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1087604 will my tin foil hat protect me from these evil "gut microbes"? i fear not will my tin foil hat protect me from these evil “gut microbes”?
i fear not

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1087605 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1087605 I heard about this on Radiolab and it's been freaking me out ever since!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasmosis#Behavioral_changes I heard about this on Radiolab and it’s been freaking me out ever since!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasmosis#Behavioral_changes

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1088119 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1088119 Given recent research regarding the influence of gut bacteria on Multiple Sclerosis, this is especially interesting. Scientists have recently demonstrated the connection between these bugs and MS here: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100719162643.htm Given recent research regarding the influence of gut bacteria on Multiple Sclerosis, this is especially interesting. Scientists have recently demonstrated the connection between these bugs and MS here: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100719162643.htm

]]> By: aethelberga http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1087608 aethelberga Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1087608 This has interesting, if slightly paranoid, implications. Imagine if big agri-business, at the behest of the government, could introduce specially enginnered bacteria into our food, to make us fearful, easily cowed, and more easily controlled. Imagine a smaller subset of this population, people who ate organic food, say, and thus not as easily intimidated, rising up against an unsuspecting government. This has interesting, if slightly paranoid, implications. Imagine if big agri-business, at the behest of the government, could introduce specially enginnered bacteria into our food, to make us fearful, easily cowed, and more easily controlled. Imagine a smaller subset of this population, people who ate organic food, say, and thus not as easily intimidated, rising up against an unsuspecting government.

]]> By: holtt http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1087611 holtt Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1087611 Primarily, the tinfoil hat keeps the neurobacteria (Escherichia Synapti) from maintaining a carrier wave signal to the greater hive mind. As a result, E. Synapti don't contribute as much to your overall intellect, leading in fact to a reduction in IQ for those that continually wear tinfoil hats. Primarily, the tinfoil hat keeps the neurobacteria (Escherichia Synapti) from maintaining a carrier wave signal to the greater hive mind. As a result, E. Synapti don’t contribute as much to your overall intellect, leading in fact to a reduction in IQ for those that continually wear tinfoil hats.

]]> By: pjk http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1087612 pjk Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1087612 it's not necessarily a trade-off. those bold, free-thinking, creative mice probably get eaten a lot faster than the colonized ones. One man's anxiety is another man's caution... it’s not necessarily a trade-off. those bold, free-thinking, creative mice probably get eaten a lot faster than the colonized ones. One man’s anxiety is another man’s caution…

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/04/20/do-bacteria-control.html#comment-1088133 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1088133 Why not the opposite? Enteric bacteria are useful. If you notice you don't have any from current foods, you are more likely to take risks, since there's a chance those will get you food that does. It seems the assumption is that the bacteria are manipulating the host for their own benefit. This does happen, but in this case I don't see why you would rule out an evolutionary benefit to the host as the reason it reacts to them. Why not the opposite? Enteric bacteria are useful. If you notice you don’t have any from current foods, you are more likely to take risks, since there’s a chance those will get you food that does.

It seems the assumption is that the bacteria are manipulating the host for their own benefit. This does happen, but in this case I don’t see why you would rule out an evolutionary benefit to the host as the reason it reacts to them.

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