Gitmo interrogators: Casio F-91W digital watch is back pocket hanky code for "I'm a terrorist"

This item in the Guardian's coverage of the latest Wikileaks dump is not the first time I've heard that the Casio F-91W digital watch is thought to be "the sign of al-Qaida," and "a contributing factor to continued detention of prisoners by the analysts stationed at Guantánamo Bay."

But like so much revealed by Wikileaks, when stuff like this is proven out in the State Department's own pen, the absurdity levels really spike:

Briefing documents used to train staff in assessing the threat level of new detainees advise that possession of the F-91W - available online for as little as £4 - suggests the wearer has been trained in bomb making by al-Qaida in Afghanistan.
The report states: "The Casio was known to be given to the students at al-Qaida bomb-making training courses in Afghanistan at which the students received instruction in the preparation of timing devices using the watch.

Actually, we've blogged about 'em right here at Boing Boing! Wait, twice! No, three times at least! Hello, Cuba.

Next: a global movement to show solidarity with detainees by wearing the F-91W?

Guantánamo Bay files: Casio wristwatch 'the sign of al-Qaida' (guardian.co.uk)

Wikileaks publishes secret files on Gitmo prisoners - Boing Boing

Boing Boing editor/partner and tech culture journalist Xeni Jardin hosts and produces Boing Boing's in-flight TV channel on Virgin America airlines (#10 on the dial), and writes about living with breast cancer. Diagnosed in 2011. @xeni on Twitter. email: xeni@boingboing.net.

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anonymous coward

has Fox News been renamed?
tyger11

In addition to that suspicious watch, all detainees were found to breathe air, drink water, and eat food.
Ernunnos

Yes, Bayes says you have to compare the prevalence of the sample in the target population to the prevalence in the non-target population. If 100% of your terrorists have two legs, but 100% of non-terrorists also have two legs, two legs is not a reliable indicator. But I see no evidence here to suggest that this particular indicator is not worthwhile. This watch might well be (or have been) even more popular with Al Qaeda than with the general population. If so, it’s worth paying attention to. And that’s if you’re using a naive Bayesian classifier. Combine it with other factors, and it could be even more useful.

F-91W in Afghanistan, on a guy with a beard = terrorist.
F-91W in a coffee shop on a guy with a iPad = hipster d-bag.

It’s funny how often products are used as a “taste performance” to declare affiliation with a particular group or cause, yet the moment that performance is ill received, the same people who obsessively document their every purchase for the adoration and appreciation of their chosen audience are all “YEW CAN’T KNOW ME! AH CONTAIN MULTITUDES!” No, you’re not a beautiful and unique snowflake. And neither are the terrorists. It’s a subculture like any other, and it and its social signaling mechanisms and even fads, and can be documented just like the rest.
- valdis
  
  So you’re in a Starbucks in Afghanistan, and you see a guy with a beard and an iPad and an F-91W. Terrorist hipster d-bag?
ill lich

I smell an ad campaign. . . .
Anonymous

I don’t really go for the whole being strapped to time all the time by wearing a watch thing. But this news certainly puts a cool spin on wearing an old Casio watch I might have to get one. I would have to partially set the clock so it always blinked the time 0:01 though.
Anonymous

Fuck that sissy watch – Casio G-Shock Forever!
Anonymous

These watches are surprisingly easy to get. In fact, they gave them out for free at al-Qaeda training camps. (Not kidding.)

But you’re missing one big thing: No one was ever sent to Gitmo solely because they happened to be wearing a watch.
- Deidzoeb
  
  “But you’re missing one big thing: No one was ever sent to Gitmo solely because they happened to be wearing a watch.”
  
  [Citation needed]
  - Anonymous
    
    Go here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guantanamo_Bay_detainees_accused_of_possessing_Casio_watches
    
    Then find their CSRT tribunal reports to see what they were suspected of. You won’t find any that only say they were caught wearing a Casio watch.
    - Deidzoeb
      
      That casts the net even more widely: “Because of its claimed use in terrorism, possession of a Casio watch, often a Casio F91W, was listed in Guantanamo Bay Combatant Status Review Tribunal reports and other government documents as a reason for these detainees’ continued detention.”
      
      Not just F91W, but other Casio watches.
      
      Meanwhile, should we trust these internal reports? I suppose the burden of proof to complain about all this should be on me to find a credible statement that someone was jailed only because of his watch. But even without that, even assuming there were other good reasons to jail and disappear these people, is it even good circumstantial evidence that they should be jailed? Would a DA or judge accept this circumstantial evidence to arrest someone in the US? Maybe these specific models are incredibly rare in Afghanistan, but it’s hard to tell for sure without knowing that. Hard to believe without hearing that.
    - kjulig
      
      Well, if you read your link, you’ll see that many people were rounded up on completely fabricated charges and later released. For many, the only thing not made up is the fact that they had that watch.
unicornsfillmewithdread

mine’s an F-105, guess I’m safe
deckard68

Reminds me of what a relative of mine who served in Vietnam told us — that they killed all villagers who wore a kind of sneaker, because it was believed to be supplied by the bad guys. Right or wrong, who knows, but if people in a village wore those shoes, they were doomed.
rrot

“Would a DA or judge accept this circumstantial evidence to arrest someone in the US?”

I ask instead, what WON’T some DA or judge accept, especially if it’s to protect us from the terrorwrists?
Teller

Al-Qaida operative played by Christopher Walken enters house where small boy…
Anonymous

What’s really sad is that a basic gap in statistical reasoning could contribute to getting people thrown in jail for (effectively) life.

It doesn’t matter that 1/3 of people captured have these watches. It matters what percentage of people who have the watch (anywhere) are terrorists.

I’m willing to bet that close to 100% of the people captured had 2 legs, but that isn’t strong evidence that they have terrorist training from Al Qaeda.

It wouldn’t matter if every single Al Qaeda trained person had this damn watch—unless you know that it is very rare among the non-Al Qaeda populace, it doesn’t help AT ALL in selecting people who might be allied to Al Qaeda (although if 100% of them had it, then you could at least release everybody who lacked one).

If professional military intelligence is this incompetent (or willing to be this imprecise), then the mind boggles not only at how many innocent people are abused, but how many really, really bad people are certainly ignored if anyone uses this level of stupidity for investigations.
Anonymous

It appears that this Taliban fighter is wearing a casio watch.

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/dead-taliban-in-chora.htm
Anonymous

Alqaida give it away for free?

I bought one from amazon for 8 euros, what a ripoff
voiceinthedistance

I always forget which wrist means top and which means bottom, when wearing this watch. Clearly, this has deeper implications when traveling than I realized. Time to get the correct wrist tattooed.
edthehippie

although i do not condone gitmo , terrorism , security theatre , or violence of any form , yet ;

I , i am sparticus !
Anonymous

I know that “math is HARD!”, but doesn’t anyone reading a supposedly tech-friendly blog (other than Ernunnos) know Bayesian statistics?

Suppose, in your area of operations:
There are a billion men
Casio sold a million F-91W watches
There are a thousand Al-Qaeda
One-third of Al-Qaeda members wear Casio F-91W watches

Let C mean wears a Casio F-91W
Let Q mean member of Al-Qaeda

Prob. of wearing a Casio P(C) = 10E6 / 10E9 = .001
Prob. of being Al-Qaeda P(Q) = 10E3 / 10E9 = .000001
Prob. of wearing a Casio, given that you’re AQ is P(C|Q) = .333

You randomly stop a guy on the street and he’s wearing an F-91W. What’s the probability he’s Al-Qaeda?

From Bayes theorem:
P(Q|C) = P(Q) * P(C|Q) / P(C) = .000001 * .333 / .001 = .000333

That’s a one-in-three thousand chance. Too low a probability to be any use, right? So this watch business is a waste of time, right?

Not if there are other circumstances. Suppose you have a guy that you didn’t just pull randomly off the street. Say that you see someone remote-detonate a bomb, and he runs off into a cafe. When you arrive there are 10 guys there, all claiming innocence. No one else entered or left, so there must be 9 bystanders and one Al-Qaeda member. Every one of them has a 10% chance of being an Al-Qaeda member, but that’s not good enough to arrest anyone.

However, one of them is wearing a Casio F-91W watch. What’s the probability he’s Al-Qaeda? In this group:

P(Q) = 0.1
P(C) = 0.9 * .001 + 0.1 * .333 = .0342 (Combined probability of 90% at the population probability of .001 and 10% at the AQ probability of .333)

P(C|Q) = P(Q) * P(C|Q) / P(C) = .1 * .333 / .0342 = .97

A 97% estimate of someone’s guilt is a lot better than a 10% estimate!

By itself, data points like the Casio watch don’t make good screeners, but in combination with other information they can make a HUGE difference, if you can do a little bit of math.
Anonymous

Everybody knows that if you are in Afghanistan wearing a Russian copy of a 1969 Timex digital, then you are spies like us
Anonymous

Those watches are awesome. I loved how the one I bought while in the US Army’s basic training survived 9 weeks of various harsh treatments with no sign of damage except a small scratch across the face.

Think I’ll pick another up next time I’m at Walmart.
Anonymous

If you are trying to get boingboing banned from every government/government contractor computer, then keep posting pictures of documents like you did for this article. See those clearance markings? It does not matter how many times it has been posted on the net. To them, it is still classified SECRET and to view it on an unclassified system will get the person into trouble. Regardless of how silly it sounds, that is just the way it is.

Also, things are made worse by the “NOFORN” (No Foreign) markings and the document is on a foreign site. If you want to post that shit, don’t put it on the main page where I’ll run across it by accident. Put it below the fold and WARN people first. For now, I won’t be checking bb @ work.
sean

I understand they also give you a nice pocket watch when you retire.
Anonymous

Everyone here realizes that the F-91W is used as a timing device to detonate bombs, right? (I realize penguinchris has already stated this above but it’s hard to tell as some of these responses read vaguely like people are thinking that the watches are merely worn as, well, watches and nothing more…)

If one reads F-91W as “a potential bomb-trigger” rather than just “a cheap and highly common watch”, it would seem to be a decent indication of whether or not a detainee is more likely to be in possession of bomb-making skills AFAICT.
- Cowicide
  
  I’m also aware that fingers are used to make bombs…
  
  Look!! That motherfucker has fingers! GET ‘EM!!
Antinous / Moderator

So what watch do you wear if you want to get fisted?
- TooGoodToCheck
  
  If you like it nonconsensual, I recommend the Casio F-91W digital watch.
- Xeni Jardin
  
  Same diff. Clearly you haven’t yet read the “harsh interrogation tactics” section of the Wikileaks Gitmo dump.
- phazeaction
  
  Red Resin G-Shock duh. http://amzn.to/ebK1HP
skeletoncityrepeater

I am wearing one right now, no kidding, and so are a lot of people.. Isn’t this one of the most common watches available?
- Michael Smith
  
  skeletoncityrepeater@2:51: Can I have your latitude and longitude please?
  
  webmonkees@3:32: Wouldn’t worry. They’l be first against the wall when the revolution comes, anyway.
desiredusername

False positives much?
lbigbadbob

Good thing Homeland Security wasn’t around when I was 13.
bcsizemo

*sigh*

Somewhere right now former members of the KGB are thinking, “Either they’ve dumbed down over the years or we over estimated.”
Lucifer

Casio F91 :: terrorists
Invicta watches :: douchebags
- Mister44
  
  Casio Databank :: NEERRRDDSS!!!
  
  Also – is there documentation on people being held purely for watch possession?
Anonymous

hrm, I recently drove across Central Asia, I was in possession of:
high tech electronics (laptop, dslr, camcorder)
two way radios (gmrs)
satellite phone & modem
large sums of money in $50 & $100 USD bills (seriously, I was denied exchange of crisp $20′s at a foreign exchange in Kazakhstan, they only wanted $50′s or higher…)

I also had hand written information about people I met on the road… whether they were Al-Qaida or not I couldn’t say, but how would I know?

I guess my lack of Casio Watch is what made me unsuspicious? Posting anonymously just in case
Anonymous

Oh my God! That’s my first watch! I’m in very deep trouble!
jonw

I think everyone who supports wikileaks should wear one of these and stroll around public places on busy days. Also, you should show your political affiliation by tying the shoelace on your left or right foot with a double knot.
guan

I started wearing an F-91W after it was profiled on Cool Tools:

http://boingboing.net/2010/12/03/casio-f91w-wrist-wat.html

I love it.
- VagabondAstronomer
  
  I wear a re-activated Casio W-700 for the same reason! It might be pushing 25 plus, but it still works..
- Cowicide
  
  I started wearing an F-91W after it was profiled on Cool Tools: http://boingboing.net/2010/12/03/casio-f91w-wrist-wat.html I love it.
  
  Hmmm, so maybe it isn’t the watch that causes alarm; it’s the fact that Boing Boing profiled and recommended it?
  
  So those of you that bought these dildos that Cory highly recommended? You’d better WATCH IT.
Grey Devil

I own a different model, but for all intents and purposes it’s the same thing since it looks quite identical to the pictured watch. I guess i’m glad i hardly wear it any more, i’d hate to be harassed over something so innocuous.
- Anonymous
  
  Ke$ha must get stopped a lot then: http://terrorwatch.tumblr.com
Anonymous

Yep, I read at least one of your three posts about those watches and am consequently wearing one of ‘em right now. Sure, call it a show of solidarity with ill-gotten detainees.
Anonymous

Looks like this is a very, very common watch.
Amazon has it as the #3 bestseller in “Casual Watches”:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/watches/378521011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_watch_1_2_last
Also #12 bestselling watch overall:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/watches/ref=pd_dp_ts_watch_1
Chesterfield

I have one of those watches. I actually think it would be a pretty neat project to turn it into a digital timer. How do you do it?

Before submitting, against my better judgement I googled for ‘ied “f 91w” filetype:pdf’ and pretty much found exactly that information.
Sparrow

I wore one of those from about 1998 until the battery died and I just got used to using my iPhone as a pocket watch. Simple and durable. (I was going to say bulletproof, but that might encourage them to test it.)
glamaFez

Best watch I ever had. Died in a hot tub in the 90s.
skeletoncityrepeater

In response to all the watch nay-sayers, I didn’t have a watch for a few years and then got one because I wanted to be able to check the time when i was riding my bike. Reaching into jeans while riding isn’t exactly safe.

I found that the watch was really convenient and that the Casio I chose was super-lightweight and rarely annoying. I would rather tilt my hand than reach into my pocket to check the time when I’m doing something besides using my phone. I have owned mostly the same model everytim I feel the need for a watch, and I’ll probably get another if I lose this one.
- Cowicide
  
  In response to all the watch nay-sayers
  
  What a letdown…
  
  After that statement, I was waiting for you to say you joined al-Qaida after getting your watch. Like getting the Casio F-91W pushed you over the edge into terrorism or something.
PapayaSF

Wow, let’s have some sense of context here, folks. That model watch is called a “suspicious item” (not “definitive proof”) because it was known that they were given out in Al Qaeda training, and because a third of the people in Gitmo with those watches had connections with explosives. All that means is that that model watch *might* be a sign, and thus should be seen in the context of other signs (or lack of them). It’s no different than the other suspicious items, such as large sums of money and $100 bills: clearly people are not being instructed to take any of these alone as proof of anything, just as possible signs among many.

But looking at it that way is not as much fun as mocking the difficult process of sorting out terrorists from the innocent, right?
- Anonymous
  
  Here’s the problem:
  1/3 of Al Qaeda types with bomb-making skills are sporting the Casio F-91W.
  
  What percentage of people sporting a Casio F-91W are in fact Al Qaeda types with bomb-making skills?
  
  Its the second question that’s important when you’re “profiling”. Unfortunately, there are millions and millions of these watches, and maybe a couple thousand Al Qaeda types with bomb-making skills. That means that 1 in 10,000 (more likely 1 in 100,000 or 1 in a million) people who wear a watch like this are actual Al Qaeda types with bomb-making skills. Which makes this little factoid useless for identifying them. Even though its arguably less offensive in some ways, its statistically even worse than using “muslim”, “has a beard”, or “not white” as “signs” of terrorist intent. These are all in the same category of logical fallacy.
  
  Unfortunately, people doing the profiling (or random-Joe) will focus on the 1st statement, and not the second question. The most likely interpretation is that 1/3 of the people wearing these watches are Al Qaeda types. Which is off by so much, “its not even wrong”. Don’t laugh – by emphasizing this first point, you fell victim to this yourself. As did the DHS by emphasizing it in their report.
- brianwood1
  
  I second the thanks given to you for your momentary lapse into sanity. Boing-boingers often celebrate the communicative value of material objects — countless posts about “cool tools”, “makers”, “steam-punk aesthetics”, etc. implicitly or otherwise celebrate the idea that the objects we have express subtle things about us. To be clear, I wish the US would get out of Afghanistan as soon as possible– but I don’t think this criticism of a particular piece of detective work is warranted. In impoverished parts of the world watches are luxury items, and looking for patterns in such material culture for signs of social association is a job that soldiers and analysts should be doing.
- Anonymous
  
  Wrong use of statistics -> wrong inference. I’m sure 100% of those known to have IED building experience have a nose and two eyes. Let’s put that on the list.
- Deidzoeb
  
  In order to have really good context, we’d need to know how common these watches are in Afghanistan. I’m just guessing, but thirty years after the lameness of digital watches was pointed out by Douglas Adams, is there anywhere in the world where a Â£4 digital watch is uncommon?
  
  After you torture them enough, one-third of Guantanamo detainees will admit to being pregnant with Wayne Newton’s reptilian clones.
  
  “… clearly people are not being instructed to take any of these alone as proof of anything, just as possible signs among many.”
  
  You may have overlooked this sentence in footnote 9 shown above: “The possession of a Casio F-91W model watch and the silver-color version of this model, the A159W, is an indicator of al-Qaida training in the manufacture of improvised explosive devices (IEDs).”
  
  Depending on how you interpret the word “indicator”, it may “imply” that the possessor was trained by al-Qaida, or it may “show” that the possessor was trained by al-Qaida.
  
  It’s good that you’re pointing out it might be intended as circumstantial evidence. Too bad they aren’t actually getting trials where judges or juries would worry about those kinds of distinctions.
- wigg1es
  
  Thank you for that brief bit of practical sanity.
- TooGoodToCheck
  
  First, “connections with explosives” is pretty vague, including people who “had an association” with an explosives expert. Second, without knowing what fraction of non-watch-having detainees had watches, it’s pretty difficult to assess the watch’s value as a diagnostic tool.
  - TooGoodToCheck
    
    crap. I meant what fraction of the non-watch having detainees were connected with explosives. I actually think we can make some pretty informed conclusions about what fraction of the non-watch-having detainees had watches (facepalm)
- Chesterfield
  
  By that same logic, having a beard might be suspicious.
  
  That watch is uncommonly common.
traalfaz

I’ve had that on my Amazon wish list since Cool Tools profiled it. I’ve just never gotten around to ordering one. Now I’m gonna have to.
penguinchris

So, I wonder when Al-Qaeda training camps switched to a different model – after the first widely reported story about this model would be my guess.

I’m guessing this model is particularly easy to turn into a timing device, but so must be hundreds of different similar watches.
bklynchris

My ridiculously, freakishly, patriotic dad, who actually did a stinit in Iraq for the Army Corp of Engineers, would be apoplectic were he to find out his most beloved watch was an indication that he was anything less.

I think I might hip him to this article, and then watch him purge all of his watches.
Tian

With all this publicity, Casio F91W is going to be a collector’s item, price would jump a hundred times and I would never be able to afford one.

Damn you, Al Qaeda!
webmonkees

These folks are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea.