VEGAN tattoo is (probably) made from animal products

sirdook

To sum up:
Preaching to people about what they eat = bad.
Preaching to people about what they preach about = good.

Normal behavior/diet = presumptively justified and healthy.
Deviations from the norm = requires rigorous justification and comprehensive scientific/nutritional knowledge.

Speaking about dangers of vegan diet based on 3rd hand anecdotes and presuppositions = reasonable.
Speaking about benefits of vegan diet based on personal experience = dubious.

travtastic

Preaching to people about what they eat = bad

This of course depends on what you mean by ‘preach’. If we’re taking the common definition, which is “saying something I disagree with”, then no. By the common definition, that statement would just justify blind adherence to whatever the status quo is, be it a personal one, and industry one, or whatever.

If, however, we’re going to define preach as “extremely annoying invasions of personal space and factually incorrect”, then that dovetails nicely with the rest of your comment on rigorous study and the scientific method. Which I can get behind wholeheartedly.

Anonymous

There are people who have nutrient and amino acid processing disorders who should probably eat a meatless, eggless, dairyless diet. How do our omnivores feel about them?

Diabetes requires dietary restrictions on sugar, alcohol, starches, etc. Diabetics who ‘cheat’ on their diet are probably better off cheating with meat and fat. How do our vegans feel about that?

Food is an emotional subject, which is probably what inclines it toward religious-type debate.

Anonymous

People complain about evangelical vegetarians, but what’s one of the first things I see whenever vegetarianism comes up? People going on and on about how vegetarians are wrong and we really should be eating meat. The hypocrisy and defensiveness would be funny if it wasn’t so constant.

Vegetarianism is not going to break into your house and kick your puppy. Actually, vegetarians as a group are generally against puppy-kicking. You meat-eaters can ~relax.~

(Note: I’m not even a vegetarian!)

Anonymous

got nothin against vegans, but i do agree the irony is delicious. its one of the funnier things i have heard of, a vegan having a ‘vegan’ tattooed on them in ink that is potentially animal derived. i knew a kid in the army getting a first cav tattoo and endin up in 4ID. its just funny in a tragic, thankfully its not me, kind of way.

travtastic

Well, is it ‘tragic’, or is it ‘delicious’? It seems to be unfortunate.
- Antinous / Moderator
  
  It’s tragilicious. Or perhaps supervegatragiliciousexpialironic.

Anonymous

amazing one search for vegan safe tattoo inks and I find an option right at the top: http://www.workhorseirons.com/Store/Tattoo_Ink.php

Since veganism is a pretty strict diet, most that I know tend to be aware of the omnipresent nature of animal ingredients in products. Seems kind of silly to think that someone wouldn’t ask unless they were new to veganism.

As a vegetarian, I know occasionally something is going to slip by and I’ll ingest some animal product, it happens despite the best of intentions, especially in people in their late teens and early 20′s, how many people remember those tribal tattoos or the taz tattoos and how many people have their ex’s name on their body.

What’s more hypocritical is saying you dislike the way someone eats and making a point of antagonizing a member of that group based on how you think they should eat. Most people on here have probably not given any real thought to why they eat the way they do, even with different options, just the same as people who grow up under certain religions tend to be. We follow what our parents taught us. For some people being an omnivore is currently the right choice for them, but that can’t last forever, we don’t have enough farmland to feed everyone if population were to keep growing, not to mention salt free water, how many cities in the USA have summer water bans now? Factory farming is literally poisoning our freshwater water ways and drinking water, contributing to outbreaks of salmonella and resistant bacteria. The process needs to change before it’s too late.

Every vegetarian in the US contributes to subsidies for the meat industry, which is one of the reasons we have such a lower price for meat comparative to the costs of production.

Please stop picking on people who are attempting to make a better place for all of us. Do some research, learn both sides of the debate especially if it makes you uncomfortable. Empathy would go a long way towards making the world a little better every day.

Anonymous

People who say fish don’t feel pain are just trying to take all the fun out of fishing.

Anonymous

Bad to the bone.

fnc

What’s the word for someone who won’t eat any animal that’s been made into a cartoon?

yosemite

I’ve sifted through the majority of the comments, and I have to add (oh yes I do!) my two cents:

This debate is great! No, seriously, it is. I used to be a vegetarian, then a vegan, then an omnivore again, but different from the omnivore I used to be. I may return to veganism one day, or not. The point is that the question of whether we should or should not eat other sentient creatures (and how to do so or not do so) has no easy answer. And while we all can say it’s all good, and to each his/her own, let me eat what I want, etc., the fact of the matter is that making this choice does have ethical consequences, regardless of how you make it. You eat meat? Well, why? You don’t eat meat? Well, why not? Why make the choice that you do?

Keep on debatin’ and discussin’. How else would we learn from each other?

Anonymous

If the needle is going into the dermis then it won’t go away. The dermis isn’t subject to the regeneration process that the epidermis is. That is why deep cuts form scars.

Gordon JC Pearce

I’m an omnivore, for moral and ecological reasons. Folks, make sure you treat your animals properly from the moment they’re born to the moment you eat them, and lay off all those petrochemical-derived fertilisers too. If we didn’t have farm animals, we wouldn’t have organic food.

rollermonkey

Saw 204 comments and knew very few of them would be about tattooing or irony. No, of course it had to become a forum for people proselytizing or attacking Veganism itself. How depressingly predictable internet…

millie fink

“There’s something so defensive about certain omnivores. It’s like the fundamentalist Christians who take personal offense if you don’t believe in exactly their version of religion and god. What’s it to you?”

Exactly! The common reaction is so, personal or something. So then I’m like, Look, this is how I myself eat–why are you taking that as some sort of snide, judgmental commentary on how you eat? I never said anything about how you eat!

It reminds me of those bigots who object to gay people simply holding hands or kissing in public (“Eww, why they gotta rub it in our faces like that?!”)

I think travtastic is on to something here with a lot of these reactionary types:

“There are some people who happen to be very insecure about their carnivorous diet. Vegans make them feel instantly more insecure, just by the act of existing.”

querent

Every time you go up one trophic level, the available energy drops by a factor of 10 (roughly). That is exponential decay, and there is only so much energy incident to the earth’s surface every day.

But, of course, it’s not an all or nothing affair. Support your local economy, and it might support you too.

Also, human nutrition is hugely complicated, and anyone who pretends to speak with authority is not to be trusted.

Chris Tucker

Red meat is NOT bad for you!

Furry blue-green meat, on the other hand.

(River Phoenix variant)

Red meat is not bad for you.

Speedballs, on the other hand.

Thanks! I’m here all week.

DO try the veal!

Anonymous

There are many vegan tattoo inks available and in fact many popular mainstream brands are vegan, so a lot of artists and studios use animal free inks without even realising. You can get an info sheet on vegan tattooing, including a list of vegan inks, from the Vegan Society by emailing info@vegansociety.com

Anonymous

Racehorses have tattoos in their mouth for life… fyi

Anonymous

Here’s a thought.
Petrol and diesel is refined from crude oil, which in turn is composed of plant and animal matter.
Ergo, vegans shouldn’t drive.

syrahelise

I am a strict ethical vegan. I am also a smart ethical vegan who does her homework about nutrition as well. I believe that a well balanced vegan diet is one of the healthiest you can have IF you do it the right way. There is something about talking about veganism that makes everyone feel like they’re backed into a corner all the sudden. True, it is impossible to be completely vegan being there are animal products in all sorts of things you can’t even imagine but I do the best I can.

Vegans and vegetarians out there- you have all been put on the spot to defend why you’re living the way you’re living and people LOVE to point out any inconsistency or hypocrisy in your life. Like this silly post on boingboing. It’s unfortunate and sad how insulting some people can become when they’re secretly asking themselves, “Is eating meat or consuming dairy the right way to eat when all this horrible suffering exists and when I can live a healthy life without those products?”

veg for life. and get tattooed with vegan ink!

slk

It is silly to have to defend yourself to someone. What do you owe them to convince them? But again, normally how this works is the vegetarians/vegans complaining, preaching, and protesting restaurants. I can’t think of a time I’ve seen omnivores or carnivores protesting a restaurants or store… so yeah. You guys get a bad image by your more fanatical friends.

Suffering and reality, sadly, go hand-in-hand. I can’t think of a moment in history this has not been true.
- MertvayaRuka
  
  “But again, normally how this works is the vegetarians/vegans complaining, preaching, and protesting restaurants. I can’t think of a time I’ve seen omnivores or carnivores protesting a restaurants or store… so yeah. You guys get a bad image by your more fanatical friends.”
  
  And those of us who eat meat get a bad image from people who feel the need to justify their dietary choices by making claims about how vegans and vegetarians all tend to be sickly.
  
  You know I wish that advertising equating meat-eating with “manliness” was just a figment of my imagination. I wish that people like Ted Nugent didn’t exist. I wish that there were no meat-eaters who positively DELIGHT in squicking out vegans and vegetarians. Because for every PETA member out there, there’s a guy wearing a “People Eating Tasty Animals” shirt. For every sickly vegan there’s someone carting around enough cholesterol in their arteries to clog up the Parisian sewer system. But you know what difference I see between the sides? Most of the borderline evangelical vegans and vegetarians I see are talking about health, sustainability, doing away with cruelty and reducing the damage to our environment. The evangelical meat-eaters? Their routine seems limited to “Hey hippie, watch me eat this steak/kill this deer/skin this elk!”. Just as self righteous and twice as stupid. If you’re just in it to punch hippies, at least be honest about it and drop all the pretension about proper nutrition and passive-aggressive vegans gagging as they watch you eat.
  - querent
    
    Very well said.
    
    And to slk, on the issue of the smoking and drinking v/v’s: I was vegan for years, and still limit my intake of animal products (occasional and local). I like to drink, and often smoke when drinking. I got a lot of, “Oh, look at Mr. Healthy over there with a whiskey and a cigarette.”
    
    Weirdness, to my mind.
    
    Any who asked (I don’t preach) learned that my veganism was only partly a health issue. But even on that point their comments make no sense (not to mention the gratification and contempt in their attitude). Trying to improve one’s health is not an all or nothing affair. I might drink and smoke on Friday night and go out jogging on Saturday morning. I don’t see that as contradictory.
    
    Hope that makes sense.
    
    And it might be said (to no one in particular here) that if you feel all v/v’s are self-righteous assholes, or even that the majority are, you might try actively questioning that sometime. See if it might not be just in you.
    
    Some are I guess, but if you feel that most are, it might be that over-generalization-from-a-subset-to-the-whole-group thing humans do that gets us into trouble so often (vis a vis gender, race, religion, nationality, etc.).
shannigans

It’s unfortunate and sad how insulting some people can become when they’re secretly asking themselves, “Is eating meat or consuming dairy the right way to eat when all this horrible suffering exists and when I can live a healthy life without those products?”

And this quote is a classic example of why omnivores tend to dislike vegans/vegetarians.

I have chickens in my backyard. I treat them like pets. They lay eggs whether I eat them or not. I chose to eat the hell out of them. Where’s the suffering from this? Your guilt is not mine.
- travtastic
  
  I chose to eat the hell out of them. Where’s the suffering from this?
  
  I just have an inkling, regardless of the morality question, that the suffering might possibly be from you killing them.

travtastic

This is important business. We’re going to steal all of the meat. All of it.

Brett Myers

I’d just like to point out (if it hasn’t been pointed out already. I got bored after reading about half the comments, so I skipped to the bottom) that it is, in fact, possible to be perfectly comfortable with an omnivorous diet (I’ve even killed and butchered my own food on more than one occasion) and still think vegans are kind of a silly bunch in a totally non-defensive way.

pinehead

I’m sure every time a controversial topic like this pops up, we can all come away from it happy in the knowledge that we’ve changed some people’s minds.

teapot

Ah.. an excellent demonstration of the depth of my Greek ancient history knowledge.

Fred_Butters

Vegan’s don’t exist anyway:
http://www.businesspundit.com/why-vegans-dont-exist/

(I just registered so this may be a repeat)

travtastic

Thanks to you, sir. You’re the absolute first person since the start of veganism to point out that we throw pieces of dead animals into everything for some reason.

Also, vegans are made out of meat hahaha.

Also, they have bacteria in their sotmach roflcopter.

Anonymous

about the poor suffering plants -how much evolutionary advantage does it mean for a being that is inable to move or to protect itself in any way to feel pain? And if it is exactly 0, and if we know that maintaining a nervous system is expensive (needs a lot of energy invested), then why would evolution select for plants that would do that? Even if they were masochistic, their reproduction success just wouldn’t be influenced by the fun they hipothetically could have in a lifetime.

you pretend to be all logial alt other occasion, and now start to argue for such ridiculous things from an evolutionary point of view.

Pablito

Yes, and as I stated, requiring a balanced diet is not something that is limited to vegetarians. Perhaps I should make a snarky comment about your comprehension skills?

You can’t just eat tofu, and you can’t just eat bacon.

slk

Indeed you cannot eat just bacon, or tofu. But I haven’t met non-vegetarians or non-vegans who drank heavily and smoked heavily and espoused their diet was superior. Which is my point. Vegetarians and vegans tend to me more self-righteous.
- slk
  
  And I’m actually sure this whole thing is about some idiot who permanently tattooed a word on the inside of their mouth when there is a possibility they could change their attitude later in life. Like straight-edge kids who end up drinking and smoking sometime after getting their belief tattooed on them.
- chgoliz
  
  I haven’t met non-vegetarians or non-vegans who drank heavily and smoked heavily and espoused their diet was superior.
  
  Come visit every member of my extended family, then. Any meal you like, since they espouse vociferously every time food is on the table.

Tritty

this will not last forever. lest we forget the cells in our mouth regenerate faster than other skin cells and with the rubbing of the lip against gum and teeth it will be completely gone within a year(?) I had a buddy who did this(don’t know about the animal products) but his wore away quickly

slk

You are completely wrong about that. I know quite a few people lip tattoos that will have them, well, for the rest of their lives. This isn’t marker.
spriggan

You’re mostly right, but it still will vary depending on the depth. I knew someone who had, I (heart) pizza tattooed there. I do think most people need to take a few more minutes deciding what they want permanently/semi-permanently etched into their hides.

Anonymous

Suggested rules for rational moral philosophical thinking on animal ethics:

1. when makes factual assertions about nutrition, argue from the best available evidence as provided by mainstream, peer-reviewed nutritional science.

The ADA’s position is:
“It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. ”
http://www.eatright.org/About/Content.aspx?id=8357

That you might have heard from some uncle/seen a TV show/read somewhere that someone who might have been vegan, or called himself that at least, might have had some health issue, that possible was caused by the vegan diet, does not trump the ADA statement above.

2. when making principled moral assertions, make sure to ground them in patterns of moral reasoning and principles that are generally morally plausible.

These patters are problematic:
- if something is natural then it must be right
(counterexamples: rape, killing, egoism …)
- if others animals do it then it must be right for us to do
(counterexamples: rape, killing, egoism …)
- you do what you want but let me do whatever I want
(counterexamples: child molestation )

This patterns look plausible:
- if you can take action to avoid inflicting harm, confinement and death on other sentient beings then you should do so, at least when it is very easy to do so.

Hundreds of thousands people easily thrive as vegans in the US today. It may seem hard to you but it is actually not. Like with every other change of habit it seems hard from the outside.

3. When making claims about what a certain moral philosophy does and does not say, do so only after actually reading the moral philosophical literature available on that philosophy. For example, The Case for Animal Rights, by Tom Regan or Animal Rights a Vert Short Introduction by David Degrazia. Eating Animals by Jonathan Safran Foer is a more personal account also worth reading.

Cheers!

noen

Couldn’t black tattoo ink be made from lamp black?

Anonymous

Yes, but typically lamp black is soot from an oil derived from petroleum which is, you guessed it, an animal byproduct, albeit very, very old animals.
- Antinous / Moderator
  
  Not that long ago, it would have been derived from whale oil.

o0flyonthewall0o

Firstly, I find this story amusing. Secondly, I have a tattoo on the inside of my lip that has been there for almost 20 years and it’s still just as vivid as it was once it healed after being put there.

Jonathan Badger

Assuming the tatooo-ee isn’t a Fungus from Yuggoth, she already will “forever have an animal product in her mouth”; her lip, tongue, teeth — animal products all.

VICTOR JIMENEZ

And assuming that Fungus from Yuggoth have lips…
Laina Lain

When they say ‘animal product’ I picture side effects leading up to her chewing on grass and speaking in strange tongues using words such as ‘moo’.

Gordon JC Pearce

I’ve always felt you should eat the things that you can get to grow round where you live. Up here in the north-west of Scotland, that’s mostly sheep, cows, fish, chicken, potatoes, oats, and – if you’re extremely skilled and can get hold of lots of seaweed and chicken dung to dig into the otherwise rather acid soil, carrots and onions.

Most of the world’s farmland isn’t very good for growing corn.

The Lizardman

A properly executed & healed inner lip tattoo will hold up just fine for the rest of your life. There is no shortage of examples of solid inner lip tattoos several decades old. It does take a specific knowledge of technique on the part of the artist and a little care by the client. The ones that fail to hold are almost entirely the result of poor execution and/or care.

Anonymous

I know its Reddit, but jesus, that thread.

Anonymous

If that tattoo was done and healed properly, it isn’t just going to dissapear… I’ve had a tattoo in my inner lip for 5 years, and so far, it’s still there 100% nice and clear. If a lip tattoo dissapears, that means it wasn’t tattooed deep enough, or the person with the tattoo messed it up during the healing proccess. If it was an honest mistake, hopefully the wearer should be able to forgive themself and let it go.

mn_camera

That tattoo was just silly in the first place.

The irony, however, is delicious. Delicious, delicious irony.

millie fink

“The irony, however, is delicious. Delicious, delicious irony.”

Why? Just because it’s in her mouth?

Or is this a chance to exude a particular disdain of yours for vegans? (And if so, whatchoo got aginst vegans, huh???)
- mn_camera
  
  I have nothing against vegans. I don’t agree with the idea, in fact I think it’s silly and pointless, but they’re only harming themselves (through malnutrition) so as long as it’s kept as none of my business, that’s fine.
  
  Vegans who go all self-righteous and preach, that’s quite another story. Live how you like. Start demanding I live the same way, we’re not going to get along.
  
  I just think her actions are among the silliest I’ve heard of relative to two incredibly silly activities.
  
  In the real world, I have other things to be concerned about, thankyouverymuch.
  - Anonymous
    
    Her actions are silly, but that doesn’t justify following them up by asserting an (untrue) claim about malnutrition from a vegan diet. That’s been debunked time and time again – most vegans are nutritionally as or more healthy than most omnivores.
    
    And now back to our more properly framed discussion of the silliness of a vegan tattoo (preachy much?) potentially made from animals (shadenfreude is more delicious than animal products).
    - Mark Temporis
      
      I’m afraid schadenfreude contains eggs.
      http://whatever.scalzi.com/2006/09/26/how-to-make-a-schadenfreude-pie/
  - thecheat
    
    What about when they harm their children?
    
    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/07/04/20080704parker0704.html
    - Anonymous
      
      “And in fact, when the children were placed in foster homes, they immediately began to gain weight – while still maintaining vegan diets”
      
      So it wasn’t the vegan diet that was malnourishing them, it was the miseducated parents. Oh, and also the “naturopath who lived in Washington state and who could not actually see or examine the children.”
    - Anonymous
      
      thecheat: Please note that the link you post is headlined “IMPROPER vegan diet. . .” This isn’t a vegan issue–it’s a bad parenting issue.
    - Ryanwoofs
      
      You can find examples of people doing terrible things in any lifestyle. This is because some people are crazy. The parents in that article are vegan. They also appear to be Christian. Should I infer that Christians starve their children?
    - Ailo
      
      While I agree this person did hurt their children, a vegan diet properly executed does not. What about parents of overly obese children. They also hurt their children
    - travtastic
      
      And then we have this case. Clearly parents should not be allowed to play video games.
  - millie fink
    
    Relexive, hypocritical utterings of “Live and let live” make me wanna hurl.
    
    @ arikol–my, that’s cute! Again with the disdain. Could you boil that down to a bumper snicker, plz?
  - TenInchesTaller
    
    My vegan friends all seem to have better nutrition than me, Miss Food Truck America 2010, so I’m not sure where you get that idea. Is “vegans have malnutrition” a fact, or an opinion about How Silly They Are?
- arikol
  
  I see that mn_camera has nothing against vegans as such. Neither do I. They taste just like other herbivores. May I recommend a nice BBQ sauce for glazing?

The Lizardman

Going by prevalence of habit on the part of most tattooists, the ink that was used was most likely from lampblack but would also have contained gelatin as an agent which is where the began conflict would arise.

MarlboroTestMonkey7

I’m appropiating a tag I’ve seen elsewhere: #firstworldproblems

The Lizardman

Vegan conflict that is…damn autotext, my phone doesn’t recognize vegans apparently

demidan

Fair enough, I don’t either. They are the dreaded Hezbollah of the food world!

sean

That tattoo was a brainless, frivolous,egotistical (“Look at my cool vegan tattoo!”) thing to do no matter WHAT the ink was made of. Plus it must have hurt! For WHAT?!

Exquire

An indication of the freakish extent to which dead animal bodies get used in places you thought were more innocent! And yuh – there are other ways to get black ink so it’s not necessarily true.

shannigans

I love how easy it is to get the vegans all riled up. Must be so touchy from all the deprivation and light headedness.

travtastic

That’s really helpful. Thank you for your input.

El Mariachi

In b4 hurf-durf vegan bashing… oops, too late.

Anonymous

Almost all of you are ridiculously annoying. The ad hominem attacks and the whiny, well-rehearsed butthurt (on both sides) are truly magnificent. It’s a wonder that any of you have friends/acquaintances from which to draw your totes legit anecdotal evidence from.

I personally am an omnivore, and I’m friends with vegans, vegetarians and pescatarians as well. I’ve never felt pressure to change my diet from my friends, nor have I ever pressured them. We do enjoy discussing the reasons behind our choices (moral, health-related, chicken/hummus is delicious, etc.) in a measured and respectful manner. This is probably because we aren’t shrieking banshees like you lot.

Yelling at other people about what they eat is grating. Yelling at other people about what they eat on the internet is just sad.

lewis stoole

the cards are stacked against vegans, more often then not, we encounter “the obstacle” without even knowing it.

chgoliz

Very true. I’ve educated quite a few people who moved here as adults from the Indian sub-continent on the hidden ingredients in American products. If you’re Hindu or Buddhist from another part of the world, you won’t necessarily realize that there’s gelatin in the soft capsules on medicines and vitamins (for example).

xtophr

You could imagine a scenario in which the individual came across the carcass of the slaughtered animal, and in a fit of grief and rage thrust the animal’s femur above her head, crying “never again!” Then in a solemn ceremony, made an ink of the charred bones, and inscribed the lip tattoo as an indelible reminder.

But that’s probably not what happened.

Anonymous

That made my day! Thanks.

Anonymous

Isn’t life filled with paradox?

WAS?

Vegan ate chocolate that may actually have conained traces of dairy.
Vegan may have been served a vegan curry that actually may havnÂ´t been completely vegan.
Vegan may have bought a shirt sporting the claim “Go VEGAN!” that may have used ink, which may have contained animal products.
(Well maybe not, but we maybe should point it out anyways to give vegan bashers a broomstick to kitty fight legit vegan arguments.)
((This broomstick, altough labled “vegan” may have been cut in a forest, where very very recently a woodworker was cought forcing a three legged bunny to pleasure him in a totaly un-vegan way… just saying, no judging…))
((( Just in case: To the fox newstable, this was a JOKE…)))

The Chemist

Wow. Someone who has no reason to believe that in a world of synthetics where printer ink is priced like it’s refined from crude and sprinkled with gold before going through fifty factories for processing had the audacity to take for granted where the ink for her tattoo came from.

Shall I pull out the fainting couch now?

Anonymous

Lip tattoos, palm tattoos, foot tattoos, all will last forever (or, more exactly, around 60 years or so) if done by a competent tattooist. I have a palm tattoo that’s 8 years old, looks the same as the day it was healed.

And let’s make sure that some lifestyles on this site are vigorously protected while others are ridiculed because they make us slightly uncomfortable with our own decisions. There’s no reason to be offended by or derisive of vegans if you take the time to look at your animal consumption, understand it, and make peace based on your own morals and worldview. That’s what vegans do, and (as a previously vegan for 10 years, now meat eater for four years) I respect them for it.

I think most people who bash vegans haven’t reconciled their natural and reinforced feelings of love and respect for other living things (i.e. dogs, pets, and fuzzy lambs) with the obfuscated reality that if they want to consume everything around them they must be ok with killing animals like those they have love for. It’s a difficult truth that we can go most of our life without confronting in a packaged meat, department store leather coat country like ours, and being reminded of it I have observed often inspires the “why can’t I just be happy and ignorant like I was before” angry backlash.

Cassandra

There’s no reason to be offended by or derisive of vegans if you take the time to look at your animal consumption, understand it, and make peace based on your own morals and worldview.

This comment wins the thread, because it is equally applicable to dietary and body-art choices.
- Tokay
  
  Gotta agree Cassandra. Always been intrigued by the way so many folks get so heated about other folks’ dietary choices. Weird.

tsdguy

I guess we’re talking about bone black. Fascinating product – turns out only 1 place in the US still makes it. Mike Rowe of Dirty Jobs visited the plant some time ago (http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/dirty-jobs-bone-black/).

The guy that owned it didn’t even like to make it. He was easily the dirtiest ever after that one, even worse than his visit to the Strumpf charcoal factory.

millie fink

Oops–”Reflexive”

dudemanguy

Last time I checked, Humans were heterotrophic consumers. That means that despite your best intentions you have to kill something to stay alive. When you can synthesize your own food out of CO2 and photons.. feel free to let me know. But until that time comes you’re just as much of a burden on the biosphere as anyone else, meat or no meat. So don’t get confused.

WAS?

I can only imagen your epic exuses for forgetting your textbooks back in school days…

Anonymous

Oh, the irony.

icastico

only harming themselves (through malnutrition)

Sigh. Not true. At least not necessarily. Here is a photo of a vegan…

http://manlyvegan.com/post/1297098295/ultimate-fighter-6-winner-mac-danzig-vegan

Anonymous

Hey, Dudes!

I’m sorry but the black ink is composed of iron oxide and carbon, not animals.

Gordon JC Pearce

“”"I’m sorry but the black ink is composed of iron oxide and carbon, not animals.”"”

Where does the carbon come from?

Pag

It should be easy to know if it was vegan ink. Does she still have her vegan powers? Can she levitate at will for example? Did the vegan police threaten her with deveganization?

saehn

This just in: “Person Makes Bad Decision, Gets a Tattoo!” The two concepts are inextricably related in my opinion, vegan or no.

The Lizardman

Hooray the tattoo trolls are finally showing up, I was afraid they didn’t get the memo.

travtastic

I hate to say it, but the whole reddit thread from the link seems to be roughly over 9,000 times more civilized than this one.

Anonymous

me! i disconnect from you! (a-dhurrrhrrhrr)

spriggan

The wonders of tofu:

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1280&bih=640&source=hp&q=estrogen+in+soy+health+issues&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=44b3839bd44fe786

Gotta love that Phytoestrogen.
Soy milk does a body good.

travtastic

We don’t go around eating tofu all day. You’re misconstruing what the argument is, and using it to defend a position. This is sort of like me telling you that a carnivore’s diet is bad for you because you’re not supposed to eat nothing but dolphin meat every day.
- spriggan
  
  I’m just throwing out arguing points. *shrugs*
  
  You’re/we’re never gonna convince anyone one way or another on this issue. I just enjoy watching people argue out all the angles. They come up with some crazy logical constructs.
  
  Besides, I’d try to construct an actual defense if I cared, instead of just throwing fuel on the fire. Either way I’ll leave you to it.
  
  By the by did you read any of those studies? Rather interesting.
  - travtastic
    
    That’s a strange way to not care about a subject: arguing a preferred viewpoint until someone disagrees with you.
    
    I feel the need to add that “just throwing fuel on the fire” is more or less the actual definition of trolling. Food for thought.
    - Anonymous
      
      Umm arguing a preferred view point? Way to go ahead and martyr yourself. The ONLY thing that could be construed as a solid viewpoint from my comments here would be that this is such a circular argument that it’s a non issue.
      
      oh nooos!!!!11
      The world will surely end!
      I’m sure you were a hoot on the high school debate team.
      Feel free to have the last word, it seems to be your main focus here anyways.
    - travtastic
      
      Well, we could have an informed, sourced discussion. Or we could just hurl insults.

David

Does the ink weigh as much as a vegan cookie, which seems to come in around 2 lbs?

DeWynken

IRONY!

juicebox

i know many healthy vegans. i know many unhealthy omnivores. if you are vegan for your health.. that is a good reason. these days, vegan seems to be a trend, much like the straightedge folks back when. if you are doing it to be “cool” then that is a silly reason. and if you are doing it because you don’t want to harm a living thing, then you must realize that plants are alive, too.

Ryanwoofs

Replace “harm” with “pain,” and you’ll get closer. I’m pretty sure plants don’t feel pain, unlike us meat-based organisms. We learn new things all the time though, so maybe every blade of grass we step on screams.
- juicebox
  
  well, it wasn’t so long ago that we were sure non-human animals were incapable of feeling pain.
  - Ryanwoofs
    
    It’s pretty difficult to pretend a pain reflex in an animal is anything else. Though, as a kid, I remember being told that fish don’t feel pain, a belief held probably because they don’t scream when you live-fillet them.
    - twodimensionalme
      
      It’s okay to eat fish because they don’t have any feelings.
Anonymous

The plant argument is ridiculous. Plants don’t have nervous systems, nor brains. So who cares if they are harmed?
Also, if someone is being vegan to be cool, they won’t last very long, none of the vegans I know are like that, but people always jump to conclusions they are.
By the way, I’m neither vegan nor vegetarian myself.

breakoutclone

For all the folks decrying the tendency of vegetarians/vegans to “preach” their lifestyle, it’s worth noting that the public discussion of social practices and values is why society is exciting, and worth living in. The notion of someone’s dietary choices properly being a wholly private, unmentioned aspect of life simply doesn’t square with how we eat: vegans and vegetarians have to navigate a shared, public food culture as best they can, which sometimes requires that they, you know, talk about their choices with others.

Likening all of that to “evangelism” is both specious and dismissive; sometimes, people want to change the world they live in, and they do that by bringing public attention to what is, essentially, a public issue. All activism works the same way, from the civil rights movement to anti-abortion demonstrations. I would never suggest that one has to like or even respect any of these groups, but to sneer at their right to talk about an issue publicly — whether it’s done at the dinner table or in a picket line — is a different act altogether.

slk

@pato pal ur – Perhaps like Pablito, you can’t read. I did not say all vegetarians, vegans, I said many out here do not know how to eat properly within their diets, same goes to carnivores/omnivores. And the dietary needs of humans does seem to change in the eyes of professional organizations, so I’ll wait on taking advice from the ADA.

@MertvayaRuka – Ugh. Again, I live on the West Coast, I see more vegetarian/vegans complaining and protesting; that’s not opinion, it’s a fact. Sure, meat-eaters do complain and preach, but less publicly from what I see. These are OBSERVATIONS. And if you’re massively concerned with “health, sustainability, doing away with cruelty and reducing the damage to our environment”, may I suggest eradicating humanity?

@chgoliz – Then those people are assholes. So what?

@querent – Thanks for not being completely blinded to this. Yes, not everyone in any dietary choice is doing it incorrectly; and there is no need to force anyone to change their diet to your’s. As for drinking and smoking, I myself have done both heavily and both give you a CHANCE of illness, but not a guarantee. Moderation is good, like jogging to clear up smoky lungs; and while I agree with you and don’t find it contradictory at all, my doctor does. Haha, and fear not, you made sense.

travtastic

I see more vegetarian/vegans complaining and protesting; that’s not opinion, it’s a fact.

Actually, that’s a personal observation. And it seems to be one a bit tainted by observation bias.
MertvayaRuka

“Ugh. Again, I live on the West Coast, I see more vegetarian/vegans complaining and protesting; that’s not opinion, it’s a fact. Sure, meat-eaters do complain and preach, but less publicly from what I see. These are OBSERVATIONS. And if you’re massively concerned with “health, sustainability, doing away with cruelty and reducing the damage to our environment”, may I suggest eradicating humanity?”

I also live on the West Coast. Since I have not seen the complaints and protests you speak of, I can now make the claim that it is a fact that they do not exist, since you seem so enamored of anecdotal evidence. Your observations are obviously biased by your dislike for vegans and vegetarians.

Also, it would be a lot easier for you to move away from all those annoying vegans and vegetarians than it would be for me to “eradicate humanity”. Plus it would be a much less hyperbolic solution to your problem than the one you suggest for me.
- robulus
  
  I gave up meat other than seafood for about ten years. A diet that many vegetarians sniff at, it none the less aroused the most profound agitation in many a meat eater.
  
  If you want my anecdotal evidence, I’ve really never met a vegetarian socially who has offered me any unsolicited advice on my diet. On the other hand, while I was a ‘piscotarian’ it just seemed like open season for anyone who wanted to list the enzymes I was missing, assume I was iron deficient, tell my wife (same diet) that was why she was having trouble falling pregnant, hey that icecream is made from pig fat, you name it.

bardfinn

Ooh. That’s bad. Bone Black is made from cow bones, which can contain PrPsc (the prion family that causes Creutzfeld-Jakob among other prion diseases).

Prions are very resistant to heat.

The following scenario, then, may be realistic:
Prion survives bone-black charring.
Prion is included in tattoo ink.
Prion is introduced into human body in ink.
Prion comes in contact with nerve fiber / breaks off in bloodstream and travels to brain.
Creutzfeld-Jakob.

Plausible. Might be something for a subject study.

Anonymous

Cognitive Failure: Rational Risk Assessment

Wildly speculative risk which, while appealing is actually far less likely than getting struck by lightning (twice) while falling down a cliff that you were pushed off of by a panicked sheep that fell off of a passing truck.

You are far more likely to be exposed to one from medical equipment used in a hospital that treats CJD and was never properly chemclaved after ( autoclave is not always sufficient ).

Of course, you are still tens of thousands of times more likely to die from easy, preventable stuff like “untreated pneumonia”, “drunk driver” or up and comer “texting driver”.

And as far as veganism and nutrition goes, malnutrition is still a common problem among vegans. It is completely possible to be healthy, but it requires discipline and a fair amount of disposable income to replace the (usable) iron, protiens and amino acids that generally come from meat.

Bubba

Tattoo ink is obviously made from pure irony, gold & Aluminuminuminuminiumy

But definitely not from insecticide. That is all.

Crashproof

I spent 7 years as a vegetarian. I was amazed by how some omnivores were offended by my personal choice, under the assumption that I was silently condemning the way they ate.

One even tried to tell me that because “the Bible says” (always a great start) that it’s “okay” to eat meat, I was on dangerous ground for not doing so.

travtastic

I’ve gotten that many, many times before. It’s apparently a reference to Genesis 1:26:

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Despite my best efforts over the years, the best I’ve been able to come up with is “Oh cool, don’t care.” I mean really. It’s just silly.

andrei.timoshenko

Veganism on aesthetic (don’t like the taste of meat/find dead animal products disgusting) or dietary (meat is bad for you) grounds is understandable and internally consistent. Veganism on ethical grounds is neither. After all, if hurting animals is bad, then we must ensure that animals hurt any other animals, which really means driving a lot of species into extinction…and likely grossly unbalancing affected ecosystems as a result. Or is it ok for lions to eat zebras but not for humans to eat cows?

Anonymous

It’s not about NEVER hurting animals, but being responsible about it. Animals eat other animals, that’s natural. What isn’t is having thousands of animals being born on these mass farms for the sole purpose of becoming food, growing in conditions that can only be expected from such large scale facilities. BTW not vegan or vegetarian so I’m hypocritical, but I support what they do.
Talia

“Veganism on ethical grounds is neither. ” Nonsense. Most people (outside of third-world countries) have a multitude of options for feeding themselves that don’t require the death of animal. We are unique from all other animals due to the degree our brains have developed and the society that’s come about as a result. Therefore the argument comparing humans and other animals in this regard is specious. Furthermore, the abject cruelty in the animal farming business is nothing less than appalling. You could theoretically get around that by eating only animal products from organic farms where all animals are treated well – a vegan friend of mine just started eating eggs again after she found someone who raises chickens as a hobby and does NOT kill them when they get too old to lay (which is standard practice at egg farms. Too old to lay eggs? Off to the chopping block with you!). But still. Not wanting to ingest something that once thought (alabeit primitively) and felt, was at some point a concious entity, well, I just don’t think that’s “internally inconsistent” in the least (argument gets tougher when talking about, say, oysters. Heh…).
- Ceronomus
  
  Being truly and totally Vegan on ethical grounds is virtually impossible. That lettuce you eat? Slugs more than likely died so that the lettuce could be saved from being devoured.
  
  It is all simply a matter of where one chooses to draw the line. I have no problem with someone choosing to be Vegan. My niece is Vegan (and has a KILLER Rice Crispies style treat recipe) and she no longer PREACHES about Veganism to people who choose not to follow the path she is on.
  
  So long as people don’t push their religious/cultural/dietary philosophy on others? I really don’t care.
  
  Do I believe in the vegan philosophy? Not at all. But I’ll respect your choice so long as you respect mine.
- EMJ
  
  and what about the roosters?
  these must be some really expensive/subsidized eggs if all chickens live until their “natural” death…
- Talia
  
  Of course, I suppose you could argue the last part of my statement applies more towards “finds dead animal products disgusting,” but it feels more like an ethical thing to me. That it would be wrong for a person, as a more highly evolved creature with many alternate options, to choose to eat this thing which once thought and felt.
- spriggan
  
  “We are unique from all other animals due to the degree our brains have developed and the society that’s come about as a result.”
  
  May I direct your attention to War, Torture, Hate crime, etc…
  Yeah, we’re so much better than the rest of the animals. Actually now that I think of it I don’t see that we’re really so unique. I wonder what Zebra burger tastes like…
  - Ryanwoofs
    
    And despite all that, some people continue to hope we eventually overcome our animalistic inheritance. The nerve!
    - spriggan
      
      “And despite all that, some people continue to hope we eventually overcome our animalistic inheritance. The nerve!”
      
      Where are these people you speak of? Reading the daily headlines the human race gives me little hope for that. Remind me how many wars are we in right now? What is being fought for again? Who started them and who is dying because of them? Is anyone winning? What do we mean by winning? What is it costing us? Those might be more important than who is eating what now.
    - Ryanwoofs
      
      You’ll need to look more closely than the headlines. Good news doesn’t sell papers or get site visits. Someone in your community is working right now to make it a better place. Not everyone can have an impact of global proportions, but it’s quite easy to make a difference locally.
- Snowrunner
  
  “Veganism on ethical grounds is neither. ” Nonsense. Most people (outside of third-world countries) have a multitude of options for feeding themselves that don’t require the death of animal. We are unique from all other animals due to the degree our brains have developed and the society that’s come about as a result.
  
  Unless you grow and harvest your own food animals most likely WILL have died in the creation of it. Be it through pesticides or machinery, modern agriculture as “collateral damage” beyond what lands on your plate.
  
  As for “multitude of choices”? Sure, if you live in the West you have that, but in order to really live a healthy vegan lifestyle (if you can ignore the animals that died “by accident” to get you your vegan meal) you need either a.) a lot of knowledge b.) a nutritionist to work with ($$$$) c.) Blind trust in companies who prepare “vegan dishes”.
  
  Is Vegan an option? Yes. Is it an easy one? No. Is it doing no harm to animals? (Most likely) no.
  
  But hey, to each there own.
  - kjulig
    
    As for “multitude of choices”? Sure, if you live in the West you have that, but in order to really live a healthy vegan lifestyle (if you can ignore the animals that died “by accident” to get you your vegan meal) you need either a.) a lot of knowledge b.) a nutritionist to work with ($$$$) c.) Blind trust in companies who prepare “vegan dishes”.
    
    Dude, just employ some common sense, eat what you like and you’ll be fine. Works for most people (outside the US that is) whether they are vegetarians, vegans or even meat eaters. A good diet is neither expensive nor difficult.
    
    Your arguments are exactly the same ones as those that were thrown at vegetarians in the past.
    
    I’m not vegan or even vegetarian; I eat meat like four times a year and will occasionally eat dairy and eggs in insignificant quantities. And I’m Just Fine(tm).
    - Snowrunner
      
      Dude, just employ some common sense, eat what you like and you’ll be fine.
      
      True if you’re an omnivore.
      
      Works for most people (outside the US that is) whether they are vegetarians, vegans or even meat eaters. A good diet is neither expensive nor difficult.
      
      An OMNIVORE diet isn’t difficult. The moment you start cutting out large food groups you do need knowledge and you WILL make it more difficult.
      
      Your arguments are exactly the same ones as those that were thrown at vegetarians in the past.
      
      And they weren’t wrong. As we understood better what is needed in a healthy diet we educated people or, in the case of vegetarians, the industry came up with foods that added in the parts you wouldn’t get otherwise.
      
      BTW, pointing these things out doesn’t mean I say it isn’t possible, but clearly it isn’t the same as eating an Omnivore diet.
      
      I’m not vegan or even vegetarian; I eat meat like four times a year and will occasionally eat dairy and eggs in insignificant quantities. And I’m Just Fine(tm).
      
      So what you’re doing is the “Vegetarian” analog of binge eating. You stuff yourself full of a lot of things that you don’t get in your daily diet and then for the rest of the time you like to point out how “easy it is”.
      
      That may be a practical approach to your nutrition but can hardly be called a “balanced diet”. What you’re doing is no different than people decididing to “go on a diet” to fit into certain clothes.
    - kjulig
      
      No, Snowrunner, I eat like one sausage every couple of months. Hardly binge-eating.
      
      Look, obviously huge numbers of vegetarians (including millions of Hindu Indians) manage to lead healthy, normal lives without thinking too much about nutrition.
      
      That is all.
    - Snowrunner
      
      No, Snowrunner, I eat like one sausage every couple of months. Hardly binge-eating.
      
      I based my remark on your statement that you from time to time eat huge amounts of dairy and eggs. Not on your meat consumption.
      
      Look, obviously huge numbers of vegetarians (including millions of Hindu Indians) manage to lead healthy, normal lives without thinking too much about nutrition.
      
      Meep. What you see there is a food culture that evolved around a vegan / vegetarian diet. They had hundreds if not thousands of years to find the right mix and then it became part of the daily ritual. The knowledge you need is still taught, even though it happens in a subtle way and not with flyers and class rooms.
      
      Take a Westernern and dump him into India without any local help and s/he has to figure out what to eat after only having been living on a western diet and see what happens. Unless they follow the local customs they will run into problems pretty quickly.
      
      Why are you (and some other on here) so resistant on acknowledging that it requires knowledge and education to live a healthy vegan or vegetarian lifestyle? Are you afraid that if you admit that you lose your religious like attitude towards it?
    - kjulig
      
      Wow, the hate’s strong today. Calm down, chill out, go outside. Do something useful. ;-)
      
      I based my remark on your statement that you from time to time eat huge amounts of dairy and eggs. Not on your meat consumption.
      
      Before you accuse others of reading inattentively, you might wanna look up the word “insignificant,” which I used, and maybe you’ll learn that it isn’t synonymous with “huge.” Just sayin’.
      
      (And I had no problems eating well in India. Common sense is all you need, really.)
    - Anonymous
      
      I have been vegetarian all my life. I have a perfectly balanced diet, no nutritional problems and no health issues. I don’t eat meat analogues and I don’t need to. I get medical check-ups twice a year just to make sure and also because for some unknown reason my personal food choice seems to need constant justification. I’ve lived with it all my life so I’m used to the idiotic, ignorant and rude comments. My dietary choices are not anyone elses’ business and I really don’t care what you or anyone else choose to eat just eat your food and keep your opinions to yourself.
  - chgoliz
    
    You make it sound like a non-animal based diet requires an insurmountable amount of time and energy. You trust that there are negligible amounts of rat or cockroach in the food you buy, right? Are you constantly vigilant about that sort of thing? No? Well then why demand that someone else do just that, or otherwise they’re a failure at their goal?
    
    Take a look at the carbon footprint calculations for a vegan or vegetarian vs. an omnivore. The difference is astonishing. Raising animals for human consumption, especially at a level to maintain the standard US diet, is a huge drain on the world’s resources. The collateral damage you speak of is negligible in comparison.
    
    You can choose what you want to eat. No one is taking that away from you.
    
    There’s something so defensive about certain omnivores. It’s like the fundamentalist Christians who take personal offense if you don’t believe in exactly their version of religion and god. What’s it to you?
    - travtastic
      
      My take!
      
      It’s 2011, and most everyone knows vaguely what goes on at animal farms, either through reports, videos, word-of-mouth, or whatever.
      
      It’s still easy enough for some people to ignore. There are some people who happen to be very insecure about their carnivorous diet. Vegans make them feel instantly more insecure, just by the act of existing.
    - Anonymous
      
      That’s right, because what you see on videos ( taken by animal rights activists)and what you hear by rumours is exactly what goes on at every animal farm in the US.
      
      And if you think that a vegetarian diet doesn’t cause a huge “carbon footprint” than you aren’t paying attention.
      
      But of course, “everyone knows” that , too.
      
      The truth is that farms are a business. There are good farmers and there are not so good farmers. In my experience, the good far outweigh the bad, and the bad don’t stay in business for very long.
      
      And those bad farmers can also be soy farmers as well..talk about monocropping, GMO , pesticide/ herbicide use, water use, gas use and processing!!! Everyone knows what goes on at tofu farms !
    - travtastic
      
      And if you think that a vegetarian diet doesn’t cause a huge “carbon footprint” than you aren’t paying attention.
      
      Incorrect. Also, I never mentioned carbon footprints.
      
      The truth is that farms are a business. There are good farmers and there are not so good farmers. In my experience, the good far outweigh the bad, and the bad don’t stay in business for very long.
      
      Please feel free to make up a story on the spot about how your experience involves dealing with thousands of farmers, all across the world.
      
      Also, this is one of those things that has always irked me. We’re talking about a business that involves killing animals. But it’s completely beyond comprehnsion that they might mistreat the animals?
      
      And those bad farmers can also be soy farmers as well..talk about monocropping, GMO , pesticide/ herbicide use, water use, gas use and processing!!! Everyone knows what goes on at tofu farms !
      
      There are actually foods available that are neither meat, nor soy. You’re changing the subject, and you know exactly why you’re doing it.
    - spriggan
      
      We already had this argument but…
      
      “And if you think that a vegetarian diet doesn’t cause a huge “carbon footprint” than you aren’t paying attention.”
      
      “Incorrect. Also, I never mentioned carbon footprints.”
      
      Yes it does. As most American supermarkets get their produce from China, Chile, Mexico, Argentina and many other South American countries it takes a lot of diesel to ship that across borders and around the country. Unless you buy exclusively local grown (which is hard here in the North Eastern winters if you like any sort of variety)
    - travtastic
      
      I’m really not grasping here what intercontinental food trade has to do with not eating meat.
    - travtastic
      
      Unless you buy exclusively local grown (which is hard here in the North Eastern winters if you like any sort of variety)
      
      Again, this is a false choice. You have access to huge varieties of local or regional food, no matter where you live in the northeast. You also have access to canned food and a frezer.
    - vermiliongrrl
      
      “Take a look at the carbon footprint calculations for a vegan or vegetarian vs. an omnivore. The difference is astonishing. Raising animals for human consumption, especially at a level to maintain the standard US diet, is a huge drain on the world’s resources. The collateral damage you speak of is negligible in comparison.”
      
      This is why I eat a plant-based diet and try to eat locally. I admire vegans and vegetarians. I think it’s awful that people who eat meat attack people for their food choices and assume that any time a person states they don’t eat meat, they’re judging. There are more preachy omnivores out there than vegetarians/vegans, in my experience. People who start making jokes about “tasty meat” and can’t fathom the idea of living without steak or bacon. I eat meat, maybe once every two weeks on average. I would just like to see people take a step back and look at the impact of commercial meat production; the way the animals are treated and the amount of land used to feed them. Simply eating LESS meat would begin to make a difference, because frankly, this meat at every meal thing isn’t going to last.
      
      There are unhealthy people out there, regardless of their food choices.
    - JackB22
      
      I feel like this all the time, I have never once tried to convert someone to vegetarianism but as soon as they find out that I am one they get either defensive or aggressive.
    - Anonymous
      
      Didn’t you do just this (try to convert someone to vegetarianism) in your first reply?
    - JackB22
      
      @Anon Sorry, wrong. The poster I was replying to was trying to make the point that animals are going to die no matter what you do so there’s really no point in being vegetarian. I was countering this argument by essentially saying that for me it is choosing the lesser of two evils – so it makes sense to me. Now obviously it is MY opinion that it is the lesser of two evils for someone who isn’t vegetarian they would think neither is bad. If I was trying to convert someone I would be trying to persuade them as to WHY it is bad. I gave MY reasoning for what I think, I never told anyone what THEY should think.
  - Ryanwoofs
    
    There’s a lot of “blind trust” placed on companies that produce any food item. And knowledge is a necessity to do anything well. Is that a bad thing?
    - Snowrunner
      
      There’s a lot of “blind trust” placed on companies that produce any food item. And knowledge is a necessity to do anything well. Is that a bad thing?
      
      No, but I doubt many people realize that, we have an odd relationship to our food in the West after all.
      
      As for Vegans and Vegetarians: It’s always funny when you don’t share their believe and faith. They quickly start acting like other dogmatic religious people. Their opinion is right, the other is wrong. I have met very few people who can make a rational argument for Veganism (and to a lesser degree Vegetarianism) that doesn’t veer off pretty quickly into a religious debate.
      
      I think if all the people who put so much energy behind promoting Veganism and Vegetarianism would put their energy behind ETHICAL food production we’d accomplish a lot more a lot quicker.
    - millie fink
      
      “As for Vegans and Vegetarians: It’s always funny when you don’t share their believe and faith. They quickly start acting like other dogmatic religious people. Their opinion is right, the other is wrong. I have met very few people who can make a rational argument for Veganism (and to a lesser degree Vegetarianism) that doesn’t veer off pretty quickly into a religious debate.”
      
      Either you travel in far different circles from mine, or most of the v/v’s around you don’t even mention their eating habits, and you’re just focusing on the rare few outed ones who do. Actually, I suspect it’s the latter, because very, very few of the v/v’s that I know act dogmatic and preachy about it, ever. If anything, it’s the meat-eaters who often act that way, as they try to convince me (like so many commenters above) that there’s something ridiculous, or hypocritical, or illogical about my food choices. Simply because circumstances were such that I was eating something around them, and that something didn’t have meat in it.
      
      “I think if all the people who put so much energy behind promoting Veganism and Vegetarianism would put their energy behind ETHICAL food production we’d accomplish a lot more a lot quicker.”
      
      Ha, that’s funny! Cuz you see, V/v-ism is itself a way of promoting ethical food production. And that’s just for starters.
      
      Btw, one other irksome thing–the assumption many have that v/v’s must be “depriving” themselves. Believe me, I’m not! Taste is mostly a habit; we like what we like because we’ve gotten used to liking it. If I ever do try something with meat in it now, it usually tastes kinda weird, and sometimes even gross. The aftertaste too. I don’t miss it at all, and actually, I seem to actually enjoy what I eat more than mainstream eaters do.
    - slk
      
      Unfortunately I live in Seattle, Washington and we have a lot of vegans and vegetarians. Many vegans I know and meet are rather unhealthy and get sick often because they are not properly supplementing their diets. You -can- live a vegetarian or vegan diet, but we are not really geared for that.
      
      And as someone who has killed, cleaned, and processed my own animals, I can tell some of you on this list you are full of sh*t. I am a carnivore and have no problem with that process.. the only real problem I can think of is perhaps not respecting the animals before killing them. But I’m pretty sure lions have no respect for their prey, so…
      
      Though my favorite irony is when I see idiots like this who tattoo lifestyle choices then don’t adhere. Like those straight-edge fools with the tattoos who are drinking in the bar. Worked out, didn’t it?
    - Pablito
      
      Y’know, we’re always hearing about these sickly vegetarian/vegans.
      
      I’ve met two, and both were using vegetarianism as a cover for eating disorders.
      
      All of my paternal family are vegetarian, as are many of my friends. None of us go to any special lengths to ‘supplement’ our diet with anything, unless you mean eat a balanced diet, and meat eaters have to do that as much as vegetarians
      
      I simply don’t believe that most of the vegetarian’vegans you know are always getting sick.
    - slk
      
      I don’t really care what you believe as I’ve witnessed it personally; it does not require your belief to be true.
      
      And most of these people are heavy drinkers and smokers who are afraid of hurting animals.
    - Pablito
      
      What’s drinking and smoking got to do with hurting animals?
    - slk
      
      Depends on where you’re from. However, I’m saying they are more likely sickly because of consuming excesses of alcohol and cigarettes. These people are also not well-read or informed and do not round or supplement their diets on top of that.
      
      The hurting animals thing is related to them, but not directly involved in their sickliness.
    - Pablito
      
      So…
      
      You’re saying that the reason they get sick is NOT because they’re vegan or vegetarian, but because they drink and smoke too much and they’re not very well-read or informed?
      
      Seems a little off topic.
    - slk
      
      You can read, right? I’m saying they are sickly because they drink and smoke too much AND understand little about proper diet when living as a vegetarian/vegan. You can’t just eat tofu, the body requires a whole cocktail of nutrition to survive, which will require vitamin supplements if your diet isn’t intaking enough of those necessary requirements.
    - pato pal ur
      
      You can’t just eat tofu, the body requires a whole cocktail of nutrition to survive, which will require vitamin supplements if your diet isn’t intaking enough of those necessary requirements.
      
      In fact the only necessary nutrient that can not be obtained from a vegan diet is Vitamin B12, which has to be obtained in supplements for vegans. Except for Vitamin B12, all necessary nutrients can be obtained through a balanced vegan diet.
      
      All the necessary nutrients for a human diet can be obtained through a (non-vegan) vegetarian diet. A balanced, well-planned vegetarian diet is healthier than a similarly-balanced, well-planned omnivore diet – even mainstream organizations like the American Dietetic Association hold this position http://www.eatright.org/about/content.aspx?id=8357
    - slk
      
      Even if they weren’t drinking and smoking heavily, because their diets are unbalanced, they’d get sick and weak since they’re not getting enough nutrition. Now those of you who can read and research these dietary choices usually don’t have these problems. I’m primarily a carnivore, haven’t been sick since 2003, and understand what my body needs to survive.
    - Snowrunner
      
      Either you travel in far different circles from mine, or most of the v/v’s around you don’t even mention their eating habits, and you’re just focusing on the rare few outed ones who do. Actually, I suspect it’s the latter, because very, very few of the v/v’s that I know act dogmatic and preachy about it, ever. If anything, it’s the meat-eaters who often act that way, as they try to convince me (like so many commenters above) that there’s something ridiculous, or hypocritical, or illogical about my food choices. Simply because circumstances were such that I was eating something around them, and that something didn’t have meat in it.
      
      Sorry wrong. The “religious part” usually comes out when the question comes on WHY they chose to eat so differently (and btw, I am being asked the same question often in return). The answers usually go from an “ethical” aspect to the obscure quite often “filled in” with odd non-scientific explanation as to why, at which point it does get the taste of dogma more than choice.
      
      Ha, that’s funny! Cuz you see, V/v-ism is itself a way of promoting ethical food production. And that’s just for starters.
      
      In what way? It rarely talks about how your food is grown or processed, it’s mostly about the fact that “no animal was harmed making my dinner” and that is a dubious claim at best if you don’t know how your food was grown / processed.
      
      I am not nitpicking here, but if someone only as “ethics” as an argument with no facts to back it up then it is is a bit self serving.
      
      BTW, to make something clear, I have zero problem with people eating whatever they want to eat, but I do have a problem if the reasoning they are giving me is solely based on what they perceive the truth is.
      
      Btw, one other irksome thing–the assumption many have that v/v’s must be “depriving” themselves. Believe me, I’m not! Taste is mostly a habit; we like what we like because we’ve gotten used to liking it. If I ever do try something with meat in it now, it usually tastes kinda weird, and sometimes even gross. The aftertaste too. I don’t miss it at all, and actually, I seem to actually enjoy what I eat more than mainstream eaters do.
      
      That the eating culture in the West is pretty bad is no secret really. As for taste: It tastes the way you make it, I do not like certain things either, that doesn’t mean I wholesale have to dismiss the entire food group.
      
      BTW, there is some seriously bland meat out there just as much as the same is true for V/V food.
    - kjulig
      
      As for Vegans and Vegetarians: It’s always funny when you don’t share their believe and faith. They quickly start acting like other dogmatic religious people. Their opinion is right, the other is wrong. I have met very few people who can make a rational argument for Veganism (and to a lesser degree Vegetarianism) that doesn’t veer off pretty quickly into a religious debate.
      
      Well, today it’s you with the crazy-talk trying to convince others that they will become seriously ill if they don’t eat as you do. Eating should be fun, don’t overthink it and don’t fight guys… (This is, BTW, the first and probably last time I’ve ever talked about my eating habits. One more data point for you.)
    - Snowrunner
      
      Well, today it’s you with the crazy-talk trying to convince others that they will become seriously ill if they don’t eat as you do.
      
      Where did I say that? See, you’re already presuming that this is what I am gunning for. You are not even fully parsing what I am writing. You presume that I am attacking you and tell you’re going to die a horrible death. When ALL I pointed out is that you DO need knowledge about diet in order to live healthy if you cut out food groups.
      
      Eating should be fun, don’t overthink it and don’t fight guys… (This is, BTW, the first and probably last time I’ve ever talked about my eating habits. One more data point for you.)
      
      Yes food should be fun, and yet you have people who decide to get tattoos as statement of diet habit.
    - travtastic
      
      When ALL I pointed out is that you DO need knowledge about diet in order to live healthy if you cut out food groups.
      
      Unlike being an omnivore, where you can stay perfectly healthy by chewing on whatever random food happens to fall into your mouth, amirite?
  - JackB22
    
    I don’t disagree with your line of logic, though it is slightly convoluted, but I do disagree with your conclusion. Just because you cannot guarantee that you will do no harm to an animal doesn’t mean there is no merit in trying your best not to. If 10 people were going to die and given my best efforts I could save only 5 of them of course I would do it, I wouldn’t think – “Well people are going to die anyway so there’s no point in saving anyone”.
    - Snowrunner
      
      I don’t disagree with your line of logic, though it is slightly convoluted, but I do disagree with your conclusion. Just because you cannot guarantee that you will do no harm to an animal doesn’t mean there is no merit in trying your best not to.
      
      See, I do not have an ethical problem with eating animal flesh. For me a cow exists because it is useful to us, both in providing milk, mowing the grass AND as a steak on my plate.
      
      What I would have a problem with though if we treat the animals badly, but that’s a different ball of wax.
      
      If 10 people were going to die and given my best efforts I could save only 5 of them of course I would do it, I wouldn’t think – “Well people are going to die anyway so there’s no point in saving anyone”.
      
      I don’t think you can quite compare those two out of a variety of reasons, first and foremost we do not breed humans for specific purposes so the comparison falls flat on it.
      
      Essentially what Vegans seem to do is justifying the “by catch” as the lesser evil and putting themselves into a “holier than thou” kind of mindset. This is probably what turns a lot of people off when dealing with Vegans because most of the time it comes off as condescending: “Oh, I am Vegan because I don’t want to hurt / kil animals” with the not spoken part be: “While you are a horrible person who has no problem eating that cute little cow.”
      
      And yes, I am aware that this is not necessarily the intended message but as I learned early on: You are responsible for the message that gets received.
    - JackB22
      
      I think you missed my point… I’m not comparing the relative value of humans and animals, I was trying to give an analogy that perhaps demonstrates the mindset of a vegetarian – even if the practice is ultimately flawed (since you will always cause harm to animals in some small way) it is still worth trying. Now don’t get me wrong I’m not telling you that YOU need to try I am talking specifically from a vegetarian perspective. You seemed to think that if a vegetarian or vegan realized that there was no way around NEVER harming an animal that this would somehow change their stance. And that was the point of my analogy, you wouldn’t change your stance on saving those 5 people because you know the rest will die, so why would a vegetarian change their stance if they knew some animals will still be harmed? To be absolutely clear: I am not saying that both animal and human lives have equal value, this is just to clarify why a vegetarian’s principles wouldn’t change on the animal scale just as your principles wouldn’t change at the human level.
      
      And on the note of coming off as judgmental, I never said you were a bad person – you chose to apply that subtext. I have absolutely no problem with people who eat meat. And your reasoning is exactly why a vegetarian can’t say they are vegetarian without getting a barrage of defensive arguments, because you have already decided to apply the subtext that a vegetarian must think that they are better than you. They very well might think that, but you should at least give people the benefit of the doubt.
    - travtastic
      
      What you’re getting at here is the Nirvana Fallacy, often associated with the phrase “The perfect is the enemy of the good.”
    - travtastic
      
      http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logicalfallacies.aspx
- Anonymous
  
  People in 3rd world countries eat whatever they can. Certainly animal products like milk and eggs. So I might go along with a vegetarian argument, but vegan? No, that’s a concept for those so far removed from the natural cycles of life as to not even understand them, a concept for the “developed” countries, those that have plenty to eat. No one that is starving is a vegetarian.
  
  Of course you as a human would think that you are unique, which is the problem with most of the humans on earth; that we think we are separate from the earth, that we are different, maybe even better? That natural means not made by humans. Srsly, do you see the huge perception problem that this sets up? If you can’t compare humans to other animals, you are dooming us and the planet. We are no different.
  
  Did you know that ants actually farm aphids just like humans farm animals? Do you think that there is a segment of ants that won’t use the aphids because it’s unnatural? It’s a ridiculous concept. Ants for the ethical treatment of aphids.
  
  PS: organic does NOT equal well treated, or “natural” or anything you might think that is does. It is just another label to get you to buy their product. Maybe you should look into what the organic label actually means. All it means is that the feed given to the animal was organically raised and that they haven’t been given any non accepted treatments. Or at least they haven’t gotten caught not doing those unacceptable things…. THAT’S ALL!!!!
  ( I am a farmer)
Ryanwoofs

Because humans should only make decisions based on perfect logic that have to be consistently and broadly applied? A personal choice to not harm another animal through dietary choices does not mean no animals should die ever for any reason.

Choose – to select freely and after consideration

We can still do this for ourselves, right?
- Anonymous
  
  Agreed. The argument that vegans should kill other animal species to stop them killing each other is absurd. I’ve got no desire to see a human kill another human – does that mean to be ethically consistent I should destroy all knives, guns and cars, and chain up all humans to prevent them killing each other? Of course not – it just means I should avoid killing myself, and if I see abuse do what I can to prevent it.
- spriggan
  
  Do we? our elections tend more and more to prove not.

Anonymous

Ironically, everything I eat tastes like chicken!

Anonymous

Silly people. Though it’s possible the ink wasn’t vegan, chances are it was. There are loads parlors that use vegan ink (or can make it available).

I always like to mention this guy when people try to say veganism isn’t healthy: http://www.utoronto.ca/nutrisci/faculty/Jenkins/

It’s not in his bio, but he’s a lifelong vegan along with being a leading nutritionist and inventor of the glycemic index. His MD, PhD and Dsc pretty much say that he knows better than anyone else posting here.

There are assholes in every lifestyle. Vegans are no exception. However, normally sane people seem to get really worked up about veganism. (e.g. advice columnist Dan Savage, normally quite tolerant, practically equates veganism with pedophilia)

Anonymous

….. and on her upper lip, she had a “Carnivore” tattoo made from vegetable dye.

irksome

The parlor where I got my first tattoo had a slogan: Think Before You Ink.

Johnny B

My guess is that a lot of people who think that a vegan diet promotes malnutrition is either just plain ignorant or, like me, know a lot of vegans who subsist on vegan convenience foods, which, quite frankly, aren’t any healthier than the non-vegan alternatives. Nor are they any better from an environmental conservation standpoint.

I can almost forgive someone for making the assumption that “vegans I know eat like this” = “all vegans eat like this” but really, people should know better or at least make the attempt to learn before dismissing.

FTR, I’m not vegan (mmmm, bacon) but veganism doesn’t offend me, nor should it.

Antennapedia

I have nothing to add here except that the number of you (on both sides of this argument, btw) brutalizing scientific research to make your point is sort of horrifying. You’re making the biologist weep, you guys.

Pete

Nobody cares that you’re a vegan. They mock you because you are pretentious.

travtastic

You might want to take a gander at the other 216 comments. Although it is pretentious.

DarthVain

I don’t think it is a big deal really. My sister used to be vegan, and I also knew a lot of other vegans, some pretty hardcore…

However it is VERY difficult not to use ANY animal products. In fact many times, the user is unaware of the fact.

I think to be vegan just enough to do your best, but understanding that in the world we live in, it is impossible to totally avoid.

I know one vegan that refused to use film, because she knew animal products were used in its creation. Most vegans also seem to be female, and are somewhat blind when it comes to leather shoes and hand bags and such. Anyway its pretty tough to be totally vegan, so I wouldn’t be too though on them for missing that tattoo ink may have some animal product in it.

The way I like to think about it, is more meat available for me! :)

Anonymous

@andrei.timoshenko,

This is one of the most common logical fallacies people use in discussions about veganism. The quick answer is most moral vegans believe that since they have the infrastructure, education, and relatively accessible option of not factory farming, killing, or causing pain to animals, they would prefer not to on moral grounds. So yes, it is different than lions eating zebras.

If we are against cosmetic companies testing on animals, must w also be against cats playing with mice before they eat them?

Antinous / Moderator

If only we could find a diet that made commenters more interesting and less repetitive, what a grand world it would be.

Compose yourselves, please.

teapot

Even though you thought my NRA rant wasn’t on topic enough I made this for you.

Keep up the hard work, Anti :)
- Antinous / Moderator
  
  Ha! Funnily enough, I am built like a spider, but my legs aren’t that hairy.
  - teapot
    
    I spotted it in a store over the weekend and immediately thought of all the orphan comments I have written that met your machette :)
    
    Is this critter the actual origin of your handle?
    - Antinous / Moderator
      
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinous

Anonymous

good point! since she unwittingly got a milligram of animal product in her, she might as well eat 100 pounds of animal flesh per year!

ill lich

Most of the tattoos I’ve seen recently among my younger friends are ironic anyway, so this is perfect.

martin0641

Imagine a world where there was no word for vegans or vegetarians. A place where, for whatever reason, some people at the table don’t eat meat – and some even don’t eat animal products.

In this world, I get more BBQ. I like living here.

We don’t live in that world, we live in one with PETA, and other haughty smacktards who get wrapped up in their own ideas and wont stop talking about them. They are kind enough to make sure I see them retch a little if they so much as catch a whiff of meat or see it being consumed – and it’s passive/aggressive stuff like that which brings this situation to a head.

That small, vocal minority, gives everyone a bad name. Malnourished babies aren’t helping either.

The thing is, some groups are voluntary, and others are not. We have discrimination laws for the involuntary groups, and for good reason.

Gay, white, paralyzed, blind – mostly involuntary.
Vegan, nudist, christian, steelers-fan, – mostly voluntary.

Please be prepared to defend any and all voluntary tags and labels you assume, and don’t think that just because you’ve “grouped” yourself that you are in the same league with those who are dealing with traits beyond their own doing.

If you take up a mantle, be prepared to defend it if need be.

Hopefully, one day, we’ll all be open, honest, free of ego and understanding of all differences and types of being. Until that time, do whatever you want, but STFU about it please, or at minimum – defend you position if you feel like being vocal and don’t act all butthurt when people respond with their own views on the subject.

Yes, people can be mean, but you knew that when you advertised your differences, and chose to open yourself to the possibility of ridicule. I bet theres a small group of people who think greenbeans are sentient beings, but theres no word for them, and no one questions their eating habits, because they keep it on the inside, next to the milk and doughnuts, next to all the other crazy.

It makes me want to suddenly decide that showing skin is indecent, and demanding that everyone walk around like a Jawa so I’m not put off by everyones offensiveness. Ohh wait, that ones is already taken.

This is what happens when the unstoppable force meets the immovable object…

travtastic

Not just in terms of diet, but in general, you should probably reconcile these two points: “defend any and all voluntary tags and labels you assume“, and “but STFU about it please“.

Also, you’ve just made a comment here about your belief that people should keep their beliefs to themselves.

But anyway, this is not very constructive, at all. You can defend your beliefs without trying to stifle the free speech that the rest of us enjoy.

archmagetrexasaurus

This is what happens when the unstoppable force meets the immovable object…

Nothing forever?

RandomGameR

“You once were a vegon but now you will be gone…”

sirkowski

Do vegans know that Soylent Green is not made from vegetables? They know what it’s made from, right?

social_maladroit

All I have to add is, Inner lip tattoo? Ouch. Ouch, ouch, ouch.

Please continue arguing. The “OBL is dead” thread got to 260 comments — you all are halfway there!

noen

You know who else was a vegetarian?

uh huh, yeah, he was.

travtastic

Osama?
Pablito

Who?
Einstein?
da Vinci?
Benjamin Franklin?
George Bernard Shaw?
Voltaire?
Me?

For what it’s worth, vegetarianism as a moral perspective inherently calls into question the ethical standards of the meat eating hegemon. Even if you don’t ‘preach’, your actions do this.

Normally, Boingers are very keen to support social criticism that points out where the actions of a society violate its own values, as well as those who voice that criticism.

When vegetarianism is raised, all of a sudden there’s a strong anti-free speech and pro-relativism flavour to many comments.

Now you know what it feels like for bigots and wingnuts when you point out the inconsistency between their stated ‘Christian values’ and their selfish actions and harmful rhetoric.

Also, the OP is pretty funny, even from a vegetarian/vegan point of view.

chgoliz

The real fail here is that the tattoo was supposed to say Vegas.

Anonymous

Pigment bases

Manufacturers are not required to reveal their ingredients or conduct trials, and recipes may be proprietary. Professional inks may be made from iron oxides (rust), metal salts, plastics.[6] Homemade or traditional tattoo inks may be made from pen ink, soot, dirt, blood,or other ingredients.[2][7]

Heavy metals used for colors include mercury (red); lead (yellow, green, white); cadmium (red, orange, yellow); nickel (black); zinc (yellow, white); chromium (green); cobalt (blue); aluminium (green, violet); titanium (white); copper (blue, green); iron (brown, red, black); and barium (white). Metal oxides used include ferrocyanide and ferricyanide (yellow, red, green, blue). Organic chemicals used include azo-chemicals (orange, brown, yellow, green, violet) and naptha-derived chemicals (red). Carbon (soot or ash) is also used for black. Other compounds used as pigments include antimony, arsenic, beryllium, calcium, lithium, selenium, and sulphur.[5][7]

Tattoo ink manufacturers typically blend the heavy metal pigments and/or use lightening agents (such as lead or titanium) to reduce production costs.[7]

-Wiki

also interestingly: “In the United States, tattoo inks are classified as a cosmetic or color additive, and is thus NOT subject to regulation by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)”

arbitraryaardvark

the black tattoo the one guy i talked to used was vinyl, an oil product. traditional tattooing used heavy metals such as lead, which i would not put in my body. (vegan here, still no tattoos.)

Anonymous

Deep Thoughts…by Jack Handy

Would we cut down trees if they could scream?

Maybe…if they screamed all the time…for no good reason!

jimbuck

Who is more hated — atheists or vegetarians?

archmagetrexasaurus

I believe the answer you’re looking for is ‘agnostic vegans’.

Anonymous

Beats my tattoo- “GINGAVITIS”.

Anonymous

Alternative Tattoo- “This way to the bacteria that I enslave to aid my digestion of beans.”

circuitbent

Glad I saw this as I am a (newish) vegan looking to get a first tattoo soon. Every day I’m surprised where animal turns up.

foobar

Ah, the circle of defensiveness.

Omnivores react defensively to vegans because their only exposure to vegans are the preachy, holier than thou sort.

Vegans react defensively to any defence of omnivorousness, because they’re greeted by it any time they mention their dietary preferences.

Everyone now: what other people choose to put in their bodies (or not) is none of your business.

archmagetrexasaurus

meh, this is nothing compared to the amount of fish urine she likely consumes on a regular basis.

Anonymous

If she had gotten a tattoo that read ‘Human Rights 4ever’, and someone pointed out that the tattoo needle was manufactured in a facility that was built of bricks that were themselves manufactured under substandard working conditions, I somehow doubt that everybody would be giddily harping on how ‘ironic’ it was. There are two points here:

1. One could reasonably believe that a, say, quaternary byproduct of an animal isn’t worth avoiding as a vegan. Animal products are in laptops and bike tires. With a million animals an hour being killed for food,the economy will find uses for their carcasses, and every vegan I know has decided to draw a line somewhere – beyond which boycotting is ineffective, and not even symbolically meaningful. Is it really *so* deliciously ironic? Or is it trivially obvious that veganism, like human rights advocacy, can’t ever be pure (even if we’d like it to be)?

2. In the human rights tattoo scenario, the other reason people wouldn’t jump on ‘the irony’ is that most of us are down with human rights, so we’d sympathize with the actions, and the details that make it complicated. I’ve never figured out why people are so eager to shit on veganism, but it certainly looks at times like defensiveness. Somebody somewhere made a choice that implicates your actions. Why is that so upsetting? I’m not a fruitarian – because I don’t think it’s wrong to kill plants – but I don’t make fun of fruitarians at every opportunity… because I’m confident in my choices. Many of you don’t seem to be.

twodimensionalme

From a different point of view, I’m pretty sure carrots feel more pain than cows when they get killed.

Believe me, we should start eating ourself: that’s the only way we can be sure no one else feel pain and that would be a very elegant way to show off we’re at the top of the food chain.

Compared to this, vegans would look so last week…

JackB22

I’m pretty sure carrots have better cognitive reasoning than you as well.
- twodimensionalme
  
  Ah, that’s for sure! :)
  Another good reason not to eat them.

travtastic

What a bunch of edgy commenters who don’t take no crap!

Vegans are made out of meat and they taste good! Isn’t that irony!?!? Dhurr!

Wait, did someone use that one already?

millie fink

“Vegans are made out of meat and they taste good! Isn’t that irony!?!? Dhurr!

Wait, did someone use that one already?”

Actually, in my experience, vegans do um, taste better.

Ahem.

MadMolecule

It’s interesting to scroll down the front page, taking a quick gander at the number of comments on the posts. The only posts with comments in triple digits are the one about the vegan and the one about the Muslims. And this one’s got nearly twice as many as the Muslim article does.

For some reason, nothing sets off the Boingers like mentioning a vegan diet.

spriggan

“She don’t eat meat, but she sure loves the bone”

VEGAN tattoo is (probably) made from animal products

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