NRA and Florida gag pediatricians: no more firearm safety advice for parents

An NRA-lobbied bill in Florida will prohibit doctors, especially pediatricians, from asking patients about their gun-safety. The bill is expected to be signed by Governor Rick Scott. Pediatricians routinely advise parents about seatbelts, bike helmets, etc, but this law will make it illegal for a doctor to offer advice on gun safety unless "it's directly relevant to the patient's care or the safety of others." Comparable legislation is under discussion in North Carolina and Alabama.

As parents know, pediatricians ask a lot of questions. Dr. Louis St. Petery says it's all part of what doctors call "anticipatory guidance" -- teaching parents how to safeguard against accidental injuries. Pediatricians ask about bike helmets, seat belts and other concerns.
"If you have a pool, let's talk about pool safety so we don't have accidental drownings," he says. "And if you have firearms, let's talk about gun safety so that they're stored properly -- you know, the gun needs to be locked up, the ammunition stored separate from the gun, etc., so that children don't have access to them."
For decades, the American Academy of Pediatrics has encouraged its members to ask questions about guns and how they're stored, as part of well-child visits.

Florida Bill Could Muzzle Doctors On Gun Safety (Thanks, Mamayama!)

(Image: DSCF1100, a Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike (2.0) image from joelogon's photostream)

I write books. My latest is a YA science fiction novel called Homeland (it's the sequel to Little Brother). More books: Rapture of the Nerds (a novel, with Charlie Stross); With a Little Help (short stories); and The Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow (novella and nonfic). I speak all over the place and I tweet and tumble, too.

MORE: corporatism

More at Boing Boing

Eurovision 2013: An American in London

The technology that links taxonomy and Star Trek

naturegrrl

the “directly relevant to the patient’s care or safety of others” loophole means that this law is meaningless. i can’t think of another reason why a doctor would ask about guns in the home except to advise on safety.
Rob

I think people are too stupid to control or understand the institutions that we have created to promote our common good…. So misuse is the norm. This is just more biased logic followed to an insane conclusion, and then special interest lobbied into law.

I don’t even think it’s a particularly shocking example…
Alan

Way back in the day, the NRA was all about gun safety. Then somewhere along the way the gun industry realized they could use NRA members to bully Congress about gun control. Eventually they took over the NRA and now it appears that even the NRA’s original core purpose is being destroyed.

Face it, the NRA is the gun industry’s lobby machine with a grass-roots facade, plain and simple. They pretend to care about rights, but it’s really keeping the gun market in the US as open as possible. I own a gun and would never even consider joining the NRA.
benenglish

I have mixed feelings on this one.

The American Academy of Pediatrics maintains a formal policy regarding guns that’s strongly anti-gun. From their website:

“A number of specific measures are supported … including the regulation of the manufacture, sale, purchase, ownership, and use of firearms; a ban on handguns and semiautomatic assault weapons; and expanded regulations of handguns for civilian use.”

The way the AAP pursues this, mostly, is a push for parents to ask other parents if any guns are safely locked away before allowing children to visit. That’s not so terribly bad. Someone who would ask such questions of a responsible gun owner is likely to get an educational response.

As in all things, though, some people go too far. The NRA says that some pediatricians are putting those policies into action by berating parents who refuse to answer questions about guns, keeping electronic records of gun ownership, advising parents to get rid of their guns, or refusing to treat children whose parents own guns.

Those things are far less reasonable.

Has a line been crossed where doctors are abusing the trust of their patients by engaging in medically useless, overtly political meddling? Has it been crossed so often and so severely that a legislative remedy is warranted?

Apparently the NRA was able to convince the Florida legislature that the answers to those questions are “Yes”. Not knowing anything about the content of pediatrician/patient conferences in Florida, I can’t say if the NRA is right or wrong on this one. One thing that seems clear, though, is that such a law is nowhere near as ridiculous as it might seem at first blush.
rebdav

It sounds like there was a perceived problem with activist doctors using their position of authority to demand parents to get rid of guns or create a wedge between the pro and anti parents.
Maybe they were doing the old Dr. knows best, castrate jimmy for masturbation, a clitorectomy will fix Marys touching problem too, look what our betters the so called Doctors did to Turing.
Doctors should stick to health issues and unfortunately there is a cultural problem with doctors using their influence to ban things they don’t like culturally such as the right for commoners to be armed for individual and common defense, much like we don’t like free speech from Westborough Baptist Church.
RTKBA is a codification in law of the natural and mostly suppressed civil right to violently confront and depose a government that is massacring its population, the US, Canada, and Europe are not exempt, a nation just as liberal and advanced turned on Europe and wiped out noncombatant scapegoat Jews a little over 70 years ago. It was disarming former slaves so that they could be easily suppressed and harassed by their former masters that first started gun control in the US.
Yes firearms are a minor health issue but lets ban cars, bicycles, and American Football which are real health threats to youth first before we take the cutter to the anvil of all other civil rights.
Skep

“The police rarely confiscate pools. There are regular news stories about police showing up at someone’s house to confiscate their firearms, whether it’s the guy in Bend,OR who had publicly criticized local politicians or the many in New Orleans who had theirs confiscated illegally from their homes.

Thank goodness for that. My they’ll have to pry my Home Defense Moat out of my cold, dead, soaking wet hands….

Darn doctors worried about things that unnecessarily endanger kids…who do they think they are worrying about kids health and things that may send them to the ER..
CLAVDIVS

It’s a deeply stupid law and and has erased the last shred of respect I might have still had for the NRA (I feel comfortable mentally filing them at the same level as PETA now), but it sounds like it may have been badly written in logic’s favor.

Unless someone can think of any situation in which gun ownership and storage is NOT “directly relevant to the patient’s care or the safety of others.”
Freek

Shoulden’t the gun lobby be pro gun advice? As having more people handel fire arms safely makes them a more accepted part of society.
chip

The title of the post is not entirely correct. The bill would not prohibit providing advise, only asking if the parent owns a gun.
SKR

I don’t see how this could pass constituional muster since a question is obviously speech. I could see not allowing the doctor to share the safety information with anyone as though it were medical information. That should secure privacy.

That said, why in the world would anyone think that doctors should be safety exprets? I mean don’t they have enough to deal with concerning things like actual disease, illness, and nutrition? I guess if they are simply handing out pamphlets then its not really a big deal. But when you think about all the things that people do unsafely its sort of staggering. Do you own a chainsaw, knife, ladder, propane torch, stove, wood chipper, gun, pool, balconey, stairs, pet of any kind, etc then here’s a pamphlet. wtf that’s crazy.
chgoliz

I haven’t read a parent’s response yet on this thread, so here’s one:

When I had my first child, the pediatrician and medical interns would discuss all manner of safety issues during well baby visits. They would offer to come out to my car to make sure the car seat was satisfactorily installed. They would ask about drug and alcohol usage in the home. What kind of cleaners/soaps we used. They’d ask about stairs…pets…plants…regular visitors to the home…travel plans of family members….you get the idea. And yes, they’d ask if there were guns in the home.

I just read that Bahrain is going to prosecute the 47 doctors and nurses who treated protesters injured by security forces during anti-government demonstrations in March.

Yet another example of those in power wanting to thwart the ethics and professionalism of medical workers.
Rob

I think people are too stupid to control or understand the institutions that we have created to promote our common good…. So misuse is the norm. This is just more biased logic followed to an insane conclusion, and then special interest lobbied into law.

I don’t even think it’s a particularly shocking example…
xochilatl

I’m a child Welfare Worker in the Great State of Florida. We’re not allowed to ask people, when executing a home study, if they have fire arms because of their second amendment rights. I can’t ask a parent if they have a fire arm to assess my own level of risk, let alone their children’s. I have to accept the fact that at any time I could, without knowing it, walk into a potentially dangerous situation. Of course any parent could have a firearm and not tell me. But I’d like to think that I can ask the question and maybe get an honest answer.

The rules changed on our ability to ask about the presence of firearms at some point in 2009/2010. I can’t for the life of me, understand why I cannot ask parents and potential caregivers about this single issue. I can ask about anything else, just not the presence of firearms in the home. You would think that children have a ‘right’ to be safe in their homes and I as a Child Welfare worker have a ‘right’ to be safe in the environments in which I work.

All of this has been extremely hard for this liberal Yankee to swallow, but swallow I have. I guy has to eat doesn’t he?
- Othais
  
  I would be very interested to read more about this if you know of any sourced articles. While I do believe your comment I try not to internalize much from comments alone so a news link would be great.
  
  If this is true I’d find it of far more concern than the doctor issue because welfare cases tend to suggest there is at least already a suggestion of a problem. It also presents another problem for the gun owner because if they reveal they do own one does this start a slope towards having to point out the location and nature of the firearm?
  
  I understand people being concerned about hiding their guns from “the government” even though I don’t agree. But in that case I just expect paranoids to lie if it is such a secret. But I would have a problem with having to identify specifics about where in my personal home my firearms are stored, what firearms they are, and how details about their security. If these are answered and the knowledge leaked there is a theft risk. (I’d have the same concerns about revealing my jewelry, though I wouldn’t worry as much about losing jewelry as I would a dangerous weapon)
EeyoreX

So, just judging from the comments here, there are people who persue a strict libertarian standpoint whenever the issue of gun control is even tangented. They think the government should just keep it’s nose out of their buissness. Good for them.

But those exact same people evidently see no problem at all with regulating, by the penalty of law, what words doctors are even allowed to voluntarily speak when at work in their own office.

Am I the only one choking on the massive irony here?
- Gilbert Wham
  
  Not quite, but it’s a doozy, isn’t it?
YakHerder

Dan Savage has a pretty great reaction:

“Dear Florida Gun Owners:

…If you’re so freaking sensitive that being asked by a doctor whether there are guns in your home hurts your feewings so bad that you gotta go crying to the state legislature, I can’t help but wonder how you’re going to hold up at your kid’s funeral.”

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/05/07/dear-florida-gun-owners
MarkM

Republicans and Teapartiers have misused and misappropriated the Nazi/fascist accusation so many times its lost its sting, but this blatant politization brings another glimmer of fascism to the healthcare system.

USA doctors ALREADY go through abortion theatre in red states where they require patients to wait 24-72 hours, show the patient models of what their fetus currently looks like, do useless ultrasounds, and read mandated statements intended to send them home.

Now, doctors are giving a mandatory gun safety lecture– sorry, they’re PREVENTED from giving a gun safety lecture.

When are doctors going to be required to say a pre-checkup prayer (sorry, moment of silence), remind the patient that Earth is 10000 years old, global warming is a myth, tell patients that highest marginal tax rate should be reduced, that unions should be decertified, that we need a school voucher system, and, oh, that you really should abstain from premarital sex.

This article sounds so ridiculous it could’ve been made up. But, it’s eminently plausible because almost no level of stupidity is inconceivable in USA’s red states.
YarbroughFair

This can easily be circumvented by creating a voluntary Child Home Safety questionnaire. The physicians also may have an untapped ally: the insurance companies. Insurance companies have the right to know how a gun is stored around children; they do with other things such as pools, pit-bulls, alarm systems. Just formulate it and define them as “incentives”.
- Kieran O’Neill
  
  Actually, access to the information by insurance companies was a (false) claim used by proponents of the bill.
  
  And it is somewhat moot, since the Federal Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act specifically prohibits insurance companies from charging higher premiums of gun owners…
strangefriend

In Texas, parents or legal guardians of minors who let loaded guns fall into the hands of their charges can be charged with a misdemeanor. In Florida, they can be charged with a felony.
brie987

Florida the more stupid sibling of Texas.
Anonymous

I think this is a perfect example of the hypocrisy in the Republican party. The main story they tell the voters is that they want to get government out of your lives while this speaks wonders to the opposite.

That being said, I still have huge problems with the Democratic party as well.
Anonymous

This makes no sense to me. The only reason you’d react this way about being asked asked about something is if you’re not supposed to have it, right? These doctors care about kids, not about shaming parents.
boehj

I’m dumbfounded. I know there’s a gun fetishism in the States… but WTF!? Can someone please explain how this is in any way a logical legal pathway.
ASimon

Please don’t kill off your state’s children for money please don’t kill off your state’s children for money…
ManOutOfTime

Appalling but nothing should surprise out of FL or TX any more. Turning n its head the old line about corporations being persons under the law: now corporations increasingly have rights like privacy and free speech which the state increasingly denies to people.
osmo

How in holy hell is this invasion of privacy? Can someone from the National Pool Association do something similar please? Just to point out the idiocy in this wierd legal nonsens.

“Pediatricians are not allowed to ask if you own a pool, its an invasion of my privacy”
gths

“So how exactly did you get this bullet lodged in your head?”
Chairboy

My recollection is that this is the result of a pediatrician who _denied care_ for a child when the parents indicated they weren’t comfortable answering his probing questions about what firearms they owned.
- Anonymous
  
  Aren’t businesses allowed to deny service for any reason?
- martin0641
  
  Well, rednecks usually are on the losing end of most probings.
  
  True story.
tamgoddess

Two things:

If you’re not from the US, you need to understand that states have a great deal of autonomy in making laws for themselves, and laws vary widely from state to state. You can no more address everyone in the US regarding such laws as you can address everyone in Europe about laws in Belgium.

Second, the obvious workaroundâ€”and this is sure to piss of the morons who wrote this billâ€”is to simply give advice about guns to every single patient who walks through the door.
Anonymous

Whether you one a pool is pretty much common knowledge – everyone can see the pool in your backyard. whether and what guns you have is not and their position is that it’s not the authority’s business to know. Since doctors are required to report some information to the authorities like when a child has suspicious injuries. It seems unreasonable, ridiculous and paranoid, but paranoia runs pretty deep with a lot of conservative gun owners right now.
ToMajorTom

I can just imagine the NRA lobbyists sitting around discussing this, mouths agape:

“Can you believe this bill went through?!”

“OMG! We really CAN buy any laws we want!”

“And it was only a decoy to make the other bills we wrote look more reasonable.”

“Our legislative puppets are morons…but they’re OUR morons! Yay us!”
Anonymous

And the junk food industry is lobbying to prevent doctors from asking about nutrition.

I’m joking now, but just wait.
Wally Ballou

If I bring my kid into the doctor’s office with a strep throat and am asked whether I have any guns in the house, I can deal with that.

But I expect the doctor to accept my polite reply, “That’s none of your concern” and to proceed to treat the strep throat.
- drunken_orangetree
  
  But you’re OK with the doctor asking if you have a pool? What is it about guns that makes them sacred?
  - Wally Ballou
    
    If the doctor asked me if I had a pool, I would likewise reply politely, “That’s my business”.
    
    I pay a doctor to treat illnesses. If there is a lifestyle change which is relevant to the illness I am paying him to treat me for, fine. Otherwise, he can keep his suggestions to himself.
    - Anonymous
      
      Pediatricians don’t treat your illnesses, they help you keep your kids well. If you don’t like it, don’t visit pediatricians.
awjtawjt

News clip from the future:

“The ACLU and AMA are presenting bills in all 50 states aimed at prohibition of NRA interference in doctor-patient relations. Similar bills will soon be directed at the NRLC and FRC.”
Antinous / Moderator

Moderator note: This thread is about a law regarding pediatricians asking about guns. It’s not about whether guns are good or bad. It’s not about what the Second Amendment means. It’s not about “tiny penises” and “sacks of shit”. Accordingly, I have removed the digressions into furious memes and astroturfy soap-boxing. Please stick to the subject at hand.
aelfscine

How is this constitutional???

Loren’s comment about ‘logging’ gun owners is absurd – doing so would violate HIPAA in about a billion ways, and yes, doctors actually do care about that.

The guns part is a red herring – doctors shouldn’t be banned from asking questions relevant to health. Imagine if Clorox imposed a similar ban on asking about poisonous chemicals. A doctor would be just as justified asking about bleach and ammonia as they would be about guns.

No, bleach and handguns aren’t going to leap out of the cabinet and kill people, but a toddler playing with them can end up equally dead. No, bleach and handguns aren’t inherently evil, and people have every right to own them. But they’re dangerous if mishandled, and banning discussion of them will only prompt more mishandling.
gwailo_joe

For a people so seemingly concerned about ‘government intrusion’; this bill smacks of hypocracy. (I know: ‘shocked, shocked!’)

Having kids and guns in the home does not automatically make you a villain: but if you have guns (and bullets) with no gun safe and/or trigger locks with young kids around: You Are A Bad Parent. Maybe your mature 13yo can be trusted not to fool around with Daddys’ gun: but a 5 year old can’t. Period.

And the point of the law (besides a paranoid NRA wank-fest)?

The kind of parents that would risk such disaster are the same ones that will just say ‘uh-uh, no i ain’t got none’ when asked.
-or not take the kid to the doctor in the first place!!-

Then again: people are hilarious. ‘Sir, do you have any guns in the home?’ “Yes, lots! Do grenades count?”

As soon as my friends started having children: I began to receive firearms. I got no kids. And I got no bullets. I take gun to range, come home empty. Making my .357 about as dangerous as a rolling pin.

The rights of doctors to freely advise should not be legislated IMHO. Nor should the rights of people to allow and commit acts of mayhem and carnage in the name of personal freedom! (hmmm yeah, I meant the other way…)
Anonymous

Doctors kill way more people than guns do! I think firearm dealers should ask potential gun buyers questions about their doctors. You know, for the kid’s well-being since doctors are extremely dangerous.
hassenpfeffer

Via William Gibson: http://articles.cnn.com/2011-04-26/justice/florida.toddler.shooting_1_toddler-shot-father-tania-rues?_s=PM:CRIME

Wonder who the kid’s pediatrician was?
Anonymous

This law is in part in response to this incident in Florida:
http://www.ocala.com/article/20100724/ARTICLES/7241001/1402/NEWS?Title=Family-and-pediatrician-tangle-over-gun-question

The American Academy of Pediatrics promotes laws banning firearms, and encourages its members to ask questions about guns and how they’re stored, including quesstioning children without their parent present, and noting the answer in official health records.

Doctors should be doctors, and not use children as pawns in promoting a legislative agenda.
travtastic

First they came for the guns, and I did not speak out.

Then they came for the pools, and I did not speak out.
Nimdae

I like how Texas somehow gets lumped in with the nuttery in these comments, but Arizona does not. Lets face it, Arizona are some gun nuts.

Anyway, this is just some nuttery. I don’t see how such a ban can be constitutionally legal. Spreading advice about gun safety can only do good in a society that permits gun ownership. Many people don’t fully understand how dangerous guns really are nor do they understand children are quite resourceful when they get their mind on something such as checking out daddy’s awesome gun.

If I had a child and the pediatrician wanted to discuss gun safety, I wouldn’t respond with “nonya” or anything similar, I’d have an open discussion. Halting the conversation is doing nobody any good, and there is no cataloging going on. Of course, I was also raised by my dad around guns quite a bit and he hammered gun safety into me.

I’m all for 2nd Amendment rights and all, but I won’t touch the NRA. They are all nutjobs and I don’t support them.
Anonymous

We should be more scared of pools. Having a pool will make your home owners insurance go up. Not properly protecting your pool (self latching gate in high non-climbing fence) opens you up to liability.

Having a gun in the house? nothing. Not responsibly securing your gun and ammo? No responsibility here either.

There are zoning laws and building codes for pools. None for guns.

The second amendment? We’re swimming in it.
lesbianjesus

Americans who believe in free speech, you are still welcome here in canuckistan, we just re-elected our own republicans, but it will take a long time for them to get this far.
Anonymous

Pools and doctors kill more people in the US than guns, and guns kill way more Americans than tigers. So we can all agree that either I should be allowed to keep unregistered tigers on any of my property, or else this is a stupid metric for danger, right?
MoonBuggy

Yes, the law sounds absurd, but surely the practical upshot is just a change of wording from “Do you have any firearms in the house? Yes? In that case you should follow these safety guidelines…” to “If you have any firearms in the house, you should follow these safety guidelines…”.
Guairdean

The law stems from the attempt to classify gun ownership as a disease. Should doctors have the right to mandate choices in automobiles (some are safer than others), television habits (some shows might teach bad diet practices), refrigerator contents (can’t give the little tykes access to less than optimum food), travel plans (Aunt Betsy drinks a little too much, can’t have that now can we), or any of a myriad of other possibly negative influences? Doctors are there to treat an illness. Not to decide if the ownership of a gun, pocket knife, or shaving razor is proper. I can see it now: “Mr. Jones, is it true that you own a so called safety razor with changeable blades?” “Yes your honor” “This is unacceptable, I find you guilty of child endangerment and strip you of your parental rights. Your children will be taken into custody by Child Protective Services and placed in foster care. Any attempt to see your children will result in prosecution to the fullest intent of the law. If you want to stay out of prison, don’t even think about them again.”
- CLP
  
  Physicians aren’t just there to treat illness. They are there to provide advice and guidance about the overall health of the patient. That includes dispensing advice about diet, exercise, and safety. That’s why you have well-child checkups, even if your child isn’t sick. According to the NIH:
  
  Well-child visits are key times for communication. Expect to be given information about normal development, nutrition, sleep, safety, diseases that are “going around,” and other important topics.
  
  Look, if the courts start removing kids from homes just because their parents own guns, then I will join you in the protest. But nobody (with any political power) has suggested that. But it’s absolutely appropriate for a pediatrician to remind a parent to keep their guns stored safely. Not all parents know, and some children shoot themselves or others as a result.
Chevan

I am normally a proponent of the right to own guns, but even I think this is monumentally, pants-on-head stupid.

Doctors are the LAST people we should be interfering with, pediatricians EVEN MORE SO. Doctors are at their most effective when they can help you avoid a dangerous situation or health risk before it ever necessitates a doctor call or emergency room visit. Children can do some really dangerous things when left to their own devices, playing with guns included; making sure that parents understand their responsibility as far as safe gun habits (keep it locked up or with trigger guards, keep ammo locked up, hide the keys) sounds exactly like something a pediatrician should be asking their patients.
Othais

So I’m a liberal with a large WWII rifle collection. I regularly have to delicately dodge my lack of an NRA membership and here is yet another reason.

Most of the gun owners I have met are responsible people but note I didn’t say all. It’s perfectly reasonable to ask about firearms in the house for a child’s safety and I doubt there is some central log where this is all going. I’m relieved to hear that doctors are addressing these risks. For those of you obsessed with having guns that are “outside the system” I recommend you just go ahead and lie about them.
- RichZellich
  
  “It’s perfectly reasonable to ask about firearms in the house for a child’s safety…”
  
  No, it’s not. Pediatricians are asking about guns on the mistaken assumption that “firearms are an epidemic” and other equally-stupid ideas. The fact that someone has one or more firearms in the house has nothing more to do with a child’s safety than having cleaning products, pharmaceuticals, or kitchen knives. Do doctors ask about those things? No, they don’t – they only ask about the presence of presumed-evil guns.
  
  Doctors have been known to call child protective services because someone admitted they have a gun in the house, so the questioning is not just an annoyance. If I remember the background on this, the bill is a kickback against medical groups recommending such questioning to doctors as a normal practice – the same medical groups that try to claim that firearms are an “epidemic” (apparently they all flunked medical school and don’t know what an epidemic is).
  - chgoliz
    
    The fact that someone has one or more firearms in the house has nothing more to do with a child’s safety than having cleaning products, pharmaceuticals, or kitchen knives. Do doctors ask about those things? No, they don’t – they only ask about the presence of presumed-evil guns.
    
    I had to laugh at the fact this claim came right after my post.
    
    So, do you have any kids? Were you present at their pediatric visits, especially in the first year?
    
    Remember, Jewish law (the Ten Commandments) prohibits lying.
  - andrei.timoshenko
    
    What is the group of doctors that says “firearms are an epidemic”? Are you sure that you are not inventing boogeymen to justify your paranoia?
  - HereticGestalt
    
    Not the sharpest tool in the shed, are we? As several commenters have already noted, pediatricians ask about a wide variety of potential household dangers, and yes, those include cleaning chemicals, prescription drugs, and knives. Perhaps your pediatrician didn’t, and your 4-year-old preference for sips of bleach accounts for your apparent inability to read or think effectively.
CLP

This law is beyond ridiculous. Look, if you don’t like it when your child’s pediatrician asks about your guns, just say “Sorry, doctor, but I don’t feel like that’s any of your business.” Or answer “Doctor, I own guns, but I store them responsibly.” Or maybe you should just go to another doctor. Those would be the kinds of market-based solutions that Republicans are always claiming to favor. Making it illegal for doctors to answer the question is not.

Doctors don’t ask these questions as part of a nefarious scheme to disarm America. (Does anyone have evidence of even one instance where a parent’s guns were confiscated after a pediatrician’s questions?) They are asking because some parents don’t take the necessary precautions to keep their guns out of the reach of their young children.

I agree with Tamgoddess: From now on, pediatricians should just tell everyone about gun locks without asking the question first. If the parent objects “but we don’t own any guns”, then the pediatrician can explain that this stupid law prevents them from asking at first.
- Chairboy
  
  The incident that started this was a pediatrician who, when the parents did as you suggest and declined to answer, decided to ‘fire’ their child as a patient.
  
  The doctor is entitled to do this, it’s his business, but it’s pretty crummy. Sometimes things like that turn into dumb laws and overreactions, but a discussion about this should include the catalytic moment for perspective.
  - CLP
    
    Fair enough, I agree that it’s crummy for a pediatrician to drop a patient because their parents didn’t answer the question. Perhaps make it illegal for pediatricians to drop patients for this reason. But to ban a pediatrician for even asking, even if their purpose is just to remind the parent about safe gun storage practices–that’s an overreaction.
Zadaz

…unless “it’s directly relevant to the patient’s care or the safety of others.”

Well if they have a gun in the house then it is directly relevant to the safety of the patient and others. Guns are designed to kill, having something in your house that is designed to kill is obviously a health hazard.

However this does nothing for the NRA’s image of being a bunch of whackjobs who shouldn’t be allowed near gus. And I say that as the owner of both a rifle and shotgun.
Anonymous

Don’t doctors in the US have first amendment rights? How is this not a violation of those rights? Asking someone a question is a speech act. This law restricts that speech. I don’t see how it will survive constitutional scrutiny. As for the second amendment, it clearly says “militia” right there, meaning that in the days before we had a standing army, the citizens were the army so needed firearms just in case. Nowadays we don’t have citizen militias, therefor, no US citizen has a Constitutional right to a gun. Simple.
betatron

I think the simplest fix to this problem would be to answer “No.” if one felt uncomfortable with any other response. It’s a good first-order solution.
travtastic

If we’re honestly worried about pediatrician datamining the location of our firearms for when the police come and take our weapons so that we can’t successfully fight off the biggest military force in the world, I give up.
- Snig
  
  Makes sense, the docs also the ones likely implanting the chips in folks.
vytautasmalesh

It appears that these pediatricians are doing nothing more than repeating the NRA’s three basic gun safety rules, and there’s no good reason for the organization to oppose that.

This smacks of a media stunt – something to increase attention to the issue for no other reason than to put the NRA’s name in people’s mouths, and to further divide the voting public. As an NRA member, I’m unhappy that my membership dues are contributing to this sort of nonsense, and I will be writing a letter in protest tomorrow.
Snig

There’s a fair bit on the CDC website if people have questions on the stats of firerearm vs. pool deaths.

For 2007, unintentional firearm deaths were the 9th most common cause of “injury deaths” for 5-9 year olds,
For 10-14 year olds, being shot was the second most common of injury deaths, suicide was the 9th and unintentional firearm use was the 10th.

So it’s not that low on the list of things that kill kids.
http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/Violence_2007-a.pdf

“Patient abandonment” is the name of what the pediatrician did, and there’s rules regarding it. Don’t think she handled it well, but the proposed law sounds like a bizarre stomping of the first amendment in order to placate the second amendment folks. Doctors should be doing public health interventions. Waiting for the disease or injury to show up is closing the barn door after the horse has left.
Anonymous

So doctors don’t have first admendment rights?
quori

So, let me get this straight…it will soon be illegal and unconstitutional for my child’s Doctor to to ask about potentially dangerous weapons in my home and whether or not we are practicing safe gun protocol…

HOWEVER!!!! Its totally important and proper for the jackass who barely graduated high school working for the TSA to slap on a pair of latex gloves and feel up my 10 yr old because she could possibly be packing plastique explosives on her hell bent on blowing up the plane we are about to board to go the Disney?!

SOMEONE EXPLAIN THE SERIOUSLY EFFED UP REALITY THAT IS THIS COUNTRY!!!!
Laina Lain

(Warning: sarcasm)

It’s a good thing they passed that law because getting accidentally shot at a young age builds character. The doctors have no right to deny the children character!

-_______-
That Evening Sun

Loren, have you ever heard of the HIPAA Act? 45 CFR Parts 160 and 164? Do you think that a medical care giver can just throw open patients’ records at will?
betatron

i wonder how many words would have to be added to the CFR to edit HIPPA (whatevver) to mandate reporting firearm ownership under public health laws. Something along the lines of “exposure to tuberculosis or firearms ownership within the immediate family”. I’m sure it could be done with less than ten words.
drunken_orangetree

I’m sure we could find instances of the police using heavy-handed tactics against someone who owns a gun, just as we can find instances of health insurance companies using heavy-handed tactics against their policy holders. What fascinates me is the lack of outrage in the latter case, while the former seems to be, for some, a cardinal sin. This disparity seems all the more strking since owning a gun is a luxury, while having access to decent health care is a necessity.
Grumblefish

@Chairboy

The police rarely confiscate pools.

Replace “pools” with “cars” then. Do the police confiscate cars?
Anonymous

Sure, police do confiscate cars, but to be fair cars do kill more people than guns do in the US every year. They’re each about 10 times deadlier than pools.

Should the pool related death rate skyrocket then we’ll probably hear a lot of folks going on about how their pool noodles will be taken from their cold, pruned hands.