Comments on: Canadian copyright collective wants a music tax on memory cards http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Wed, 22 May 2013 19:29:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110792 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110792 Down with copyright, culture belongs to the people. Down with copyright, culture belongs to the people.

]]> By: jimkirk http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110821 jimkirk Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110821 In the US, I've seen shelves with "Music CDs" next to "data CDs". Presumably the music CDs have the RIAA tax added and the data disks don't. How about paper? I've seen pieces of paper with song lyrics printed on them, some even with staves, clef signs and notes. Sure, you could write almost anything, but I think a penny a page for all notebooks and tablets shouldn't be unreasonable... In the US, I’ve seen shelves with “Music CDs” next to “data CDs”. Presumably the music CDs have the RIAA tax added and the data disks don’t.

How about paper? I’ve seen pieces of paper with song lyrics printed on them, some even with staves, clef signs and notes. Sure, you could write almost anything, but I think a penny a page for all notebooks and tablets shouldn’t be unreasonable…

]]> By: Baldhead http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1111593 Baldhead Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1111593 What's unclear? Not one penny collected in these levies goes to any record label anywhere. The levy has absolutely nothing to do with record labels and their losses over CD sales and instead goes to recording artists directly. Pretty sre I said exactly that. The levy may be BS and extending it also BS but it is not done to prop up dying record labels, but rather to compensate the recording artists. The difference is HUGE. What’s unclear? Not one penny collected in these levies goes to any record label anywhere. The levy has absolutely nothing to do with record labels and their losses over CD sales and instead goes to recording artists directly. Pretty sre I said exactly that. The levy may be BS and extending it also BS but it is not done to prop up dying record labels, but rather to compensate the recording artists. The difference is HUGE.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110837 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110837 So basically corporate entities want to force A TAX INCREASE on the Candaian citizen. I'm betting not one anti-taxation corporation or politician in America will be outraged by this move! So basically corporate entities want to force A TAX INCREASE on the Candaian citizen.

I’m betting not one anti-taxation corporation or politician in America will be outraged by this move!

]]> By: Bloodboiler http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110845 Bloodboiler Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110845 Nice to know Finland is not the only country with a stupid system like that. To add injury to injustice, that money goes to "artists" that are not exactly topping most bit-torrented artists charts. Nice to know Finland is not the only country with a stupid system like that. To add injury to injustice, that money goes to “artists” that are not exactly topping most bit-torrented artists charts.

]]> By: James P http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1117269 James P Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1117269 That's true to a point. You would have to download the copy directly to the SD card. If you download an infringing copy of something to your hard drive and then transfer it to an SD card (or blank CD- also covered by a levy) you are still infringing copyright. There's also the anti-circumvention issue (discussed in the blog below): http://jamesplotkin.blogspot.com/2011/05/what-will-they-think-of-next-new.html That’s true to a point. You would have to download the copy directly to the SD card. If you download an infringing copy of something to your hard drive and then transfer it to an SD card (or blank CD- also covered by a levy) you are still infringing copyright.

There’s also the anti-circumvention issue (discussed in the blog below):

http://jamesplotkin.blogspot.com/2011/05/what-will-they-think-of-next-new.html

]]> By: barryfandango http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1111126 barryfandango Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1111126 Jake0748, as a musician in Canada I can tell you that the recordable media levy *is* distributed to artists, even independents like myself, through Performance Rights Organizations like SOCAN. So now you must consider. Jake0748, as a musician in Canada I can tell you that the recordable media levy *is* distributed to artists, even independents like myself, through Performance Rights Organizations like SOCAN. So now you must consider.

]]> By: Jake0748 http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110615 Jake0748 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110615 Imagine that... money grubbing business people want more money. Really, they should get jobs, you know produce something. I'm an amateur photographer, I use tons of memory cards. I don't wanna have to pay a tax for my blank media. (I'm in the US, not Canada, but shit tends to splatter). If I thought for a minute that a significant portion of this tax/fee went to artists, I'd consider. But no, it won't. Imagine that… money grubbing business people want more money.

Really, they should get jobs, you know produce something. I’m an amateur photographer, I use tons of memory cards. I don’t wanna have to pay a tax for my blank media. (I’m in the US, not Canada, but shit tends to splatter).
If I thought for a minute that a significant portion of this tax/fee went to artists, I’d consider. But no, it won’t.

]]> By: James P http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1117273 James P Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1117273 My biggest issue is that even if I buy my music legally, under the (soon to be) new copyright law in Canada I can't break a digital lock to transfer the file onto my card whether or not I pay the levy. This means that I may pay twice without the ability to fully enjoy the rights associated with those costs. <!-- http://jamesplotkin.blogspot.com/2011/05/what-will-they-think-of-next-new.html --> Also, Howard Knopf's take: http://excesscopyright.blogspot.com/2011/05/no-thanks-for-memory-tax-stopping-it.html My biggest issue is that even if I buy my music legally, under the (soon to be) new copyright law in Canada I can’t break a digital lock to transfer the file onto my card whether or not I pay the levy. This means that I may pay twice without the ability to fully enjoy the rights associated with those costs.

Also, Howard Knopf’s take:
http://excesscopyright.blogspot.com/2011/05/no-thanks-for-memory-tax-stopping-it.html

]]> By: sam1148 http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110620 sam1148 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110620 This was true in the 70's with Cassette tapes. Each tape had a RIAA kickback paid to the RIAA. So, you could legally copy (for your personal use) anything from albums, Radios, or friend's albums. As long as you didn't sell it. Radio stations would play entire entire albums without interruptions and encourage people to record them on tape. Considering that..I would wonder if a bit-torrent sharing downloaded directly to those memory cards would be legal? I think the cassette tax is also still in effect. (I wonder if applied to video tapes as well?). If so, a maker device that DLs the music directly to a cassette tape in digital format..could still be legal in the US. Maybe? This was true in the 70′s with Cassette tapes. Each tape had a RIAA kickback paid to the RIAA. So, you could legally copy (for your personal use) anything from albums, Radios, or friend’s albums. As long as you didn’t sell it.

Radio stations would play entire entire albums without interruptions and encourage people to record them on tape.

Considering that..I would wonder if a bit-torrent sharing downloaded directly to those memory cards would be legal? I think the cassette tax is also still in effect. (I wonder if applied to video tapes as well?). If so, a maker device that DLs the music directly to a cassette tape in digital format..could still be legal in the US. Maybe?

]]> By: Lauchlin http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1111393 Lauchlin Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1111393 SOCAN is still an organization of thieves, and they just implicate actual musicians in their thieving. I am a Canadian and was one of those music fans who went out to shows every chance I got and probably spent a couple of thousand dollars per year on music, even when it was significantly easier to just get all my music online. I was one of those music fans until a couple of years ago, when I read about SOCAN levying fines against hairdressers for daring to play music in their salons without explicit permission from the entertainment bureaucracy. I haven't bought a CD since, and I've discouraged everyone I know from doing so. You might want to reconsider your membership in an organization that's giving you such a bad name. SOCAN is still an organization of thieves, and they just implicate actual musicians in their thieving. I am a Canadian and was one of those music fans who went out to shows every chance I got and probably spent a couple of thousand dollars per year on music, even when it was significantly easier to just get all my music online. I was one of those music fans until a couple of years ago, when I read about SOCAN levying fines against hairdressers for daring to play music in their salons without explicit permission from the entertainment bureaucracy.

I haven’t bought a CD since, and I’ve discouraged everyone I know from doing so. You might want to reconsider your membership in an organization that’s giving you such a bad name.

]]> By: ted http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110626 ted Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110626 I don't think it's a big deal that the Canadian Copyright Collective want this. They'd be idiots not to grab at basically free money. Hell, I'd do it too. The issue is that the government is pretty much expected to go along with it. I don’t think it’s a big deal that the Canadian Copyright Collective want this. They’d be idiots not to grab at basically free money. Hell, I’d do it too. The issue is that the government is pretty much expected to go along with it.

]]> By: Jack http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110628 Jack Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110628 Has it ever been pointed out that companies like Sony complain about CDs being ripped, yet sell the computers, burners and blank CDs used to burn CDs? It’s all crazy. Has it ever been pointed out that companies like Sony complain about CDs being ripped, yet sell the computers, burners and blank CDs used to burn CDs?

It’s all crazy.

]]> By: sam1148 http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110630 sam1148 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110630 When CD-RW's came out, the RIAA wanted a tax on those, but the computer lobby nixed that idea..saying those would only be used data storage, and the RIAA didn't push it because they didn't really see it as threat to them at the time thinking, in their shortsighted way, that burners would never be consumer devices in the home. When CD-RW’s came out, the RIAA wanted a tax on those, but the computer lobby nixed that idea..saying those would only be used data storage, and the RIAA didn’t push it because they didn’t really see it as threat to them at the time thinking, in their shortsighted way, that burners would never be consumer devices in the home.

]]> By: Laina Lain http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110632 Laina Lain Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110632 I'm not surprised. The government makes it their job to find each and every way to get money out of us. I’m not surprised. The government makes it their job to find each and every way to get money out of us.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110633 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110633 Our music empire is collapsing because of new technology. Solution? GIVE US MONEY Our music empire is collapsing because of new technology. Solution? GIVE US MONEY

]]> By: redesigned http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110890 redesigned Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110890 I would gladly pay this if it made the copytolls go away. It would be a small price to pay for free culture. alas, this is just another grab for our money from the people who are already screwing artists and consumers, we would get nothing in return. q: RIAA/MPAA, how much of our money is enough? a: we can never steal enough. I would gladly pay this if it made the copytolls go away. It would be a small price to pay for free culture. alas, this is just another grab for our money from the people who are already screwing artists and consumers, we would get nothing in return.

q: RIAA/MPAA, how much of our money is enough?
a: we can never steal enough.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1111403 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1111403 The levy is kind-of awesome in that, though IANAL I _just_ studied this in my Entertainment Law class, it makes it de-facto, and maybe de-jure, kosher to pirate music -- you actually _are_ paying for it. The levy is kind-of awesome in that, though IANAL I _just_ studied this in my Entertainment Law class, it makes it de-facto, and maybe de-jure, kosher to pirate music — you actually _are_ paying for it.

]]> By: classic01 http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110640 classic01 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110640 They should tax the city's air for transmitting their so precious copyright music for FREE! They should tax the city’s air for transmitting their so precious copyright music for FREE!

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110643 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110643 In Sweden, from June 1st we'll have to pay a $26 copy tax on 250GB (and bigger) external hard drives, making them more than 50% more expensive (and probably more than twice as expensive in the near future). In Sweden, from June 1st we’ll have to pay a $26 copy tax on 250GB (and bigger) external hard drives, making them more than 50% more expensive (and probably more than twice as expensive in the near future).

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110646 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110646 Don't give them ideas !!!! Don’t give them ideas !!!!

]]> By: Gulliver http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110647 Gulliver Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110647 Really it's your ear that's stealing the music. Perhaps they should get to tax all newborns with functional hearing. And just think of all those unlicensed vocal cords belting out copyrighted lyrics at karaoke parties. Maybe they could start taxing speech. Heck, let's all just cut to the chase and hand all the money on Earth over to the entertainment executives then indenture ourselves to them for life...you know, like those lazy artists don't appreciate all the work the label execs do. I hate thieves, especially thieves that hide behind their legal departments and write their own regulation carte blanche. Really it’s your ear that’s stealing the music. Perhaps they should get to tax all newborns with functional hearing. And just think of all those unlicensed vocal cords belting out copyrighted lyrics at karaoke parties. Maybe they could start taxing speech. Heck, let’s all just cut to the chase and hand all the money on Earth over to the entertainment executives then indenture ourselves to them for life…you know, like those lazy artists don’t appreciate all the work the label execs do. I hate thieves, especially thieves that hide behind their legal departments and write their own regulation carte blanche.

]]> By: BrendanBabbage http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110905 BrendanBabbage Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110905 Would it then be an end to those that SUE people for downloading "Their" work? Meaning the companies that covet the works of others and are fighting to remain the "Gatekeeper" of popular culture. Too bad NONE of it in any case would go to any musicians, doubleplus any REAL ones. The industry is feeding and regurgitating on itself. The top acts look like a police lineup of gangbangers and ho's. They have yearly pop stars and toss 'em out the window for the next act. If anything should be illegal it should be even listening to this so-called "Popular" music. Don't BUY any "Popular" music. Don't LISTEN to any. Find independent aka not sold soul to Devil, sells on own website, is cool with downloading realizing all music is "Busking" no matter what. Would it then be an end to those that SUE people for downloading “Their” work? Meaning the companies that covet the works of others and are fighting to remain the “Gatekeeper” of popular culture.

Too bad NONE of it in any case would go to any musicians, doubleplus any REAL ones. The industry is feeding and regurgitating on itself. The top acts look like a police lineup of gangbangers and ho’s. They have yearly pop stars and toss ‘em out the window for the next act. If anything should be illegal it should be even listening to this so-called “Popular” music.

Don’t BUY any “Popular” music. Don’t LISTEN to any.

Find independent aka not sold soul to Devil, sells on own website, is cool with downloading realizing all music is “Busking” no matter what.

]]> By: futnuh http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110651 futnuh Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110651 I suspect Sony Music and the Sony unit manufacturing hardware are run as separate kingdoms. They would each be trying to maximize revenue and profit, even at the expense of the other. I suspect Sony Music and the Sony unit manufacturing hardware are run as separate kingdoms. They would each be trying to maximize revenue and profit, even at the expense of the other.

]]> By: hep cat http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110914 hep cat Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110914 The only thing anybody I know uses blank media for is creating or distributing their own work. I'm glad I don't have to pay a fee on hard drives in the US, I think I'm looking at 9 TB sitting on my desk now. My son's band has fans in Canada , how does he get some of the Loonies collected on his behalf ? The only thing anybody I know uses blank media for is creating or distributing their own work.

I’m glad I don’t have to pay a fee on hard drives in the US, I think I’m looking at 9 TB sitting on my desk now.

My son’s band has fans in Canada , how does he get some of the Loonies collected on his behalf ?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110662 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110662 Already existing in France since october 2007 : http://www.service-public.fr/actualites/00632.html and since february 2010 in Belgium : http://archives.lesoir.be/?action=nav&gps=746229 This make people think they have a right to copy, since they paid for (or seen another way: you are suspected to be a thief from the moment you buy a memory support). Already existing in France since october 2007 :
http://www.service-public.fr/actualites/00632.html

and since february 2010 in Belgium :
http://archives.lesoir.be/?action=nav&gps=746229

This make people think they have a right to copy, since they paid for (or seen another way: you are suspected to be a thief from the moment you buy a memory support).

]]> By: the_headless_rabbit http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110663 the_headless_rabbit Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110663 I'm a photographer. I need memory cards to make my work happen. Music isn't the only digital media that can be copied. I want in on this action. How do I get my cut? Hell, it makes far more sense for this cash to go to photographers. How many Ipods take memory cards? (hint: none) If these guys are pushing for government-backed extortion, why should musicians be the only ones benefiting? I’m a photographer. I need memory cards to make my work happen. Music isn’t the only digital media that can be copied. I want in on this action. How do I get my cut?

Hell, it makes far more sense for this cash to go to photographers. How many Ipods take memory cards?
(hint: none)

If these guys are pushing for government-backed extortion, why should musicians be the only ones benefiting?

]]> By: poisonborz http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110664 poisonborz Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110664 Welcome to the club. Here in Hungary this is already a reality, for like 10 years. Artisjus (local RIAA) puts a tax not only on memory cards, but every empty data storage sold. USB drives, CDs, DVDs, external storage, every sold box bears the holographic sticker of Artisjus. And the tax bumps the price by.. wait for it... 34%. Welcome to the club.
Here in Hungary this is already a reality, for like 10 years.
Artisjus (local RIAA) puts a tax not only on memory cards, but every empty data storage sold. USB drives, CDs, DVDs, external storage, every sold box bears the holographic sticker of Artisjus.

And the tax bumps the price by.. wait for it… 34%.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1110666 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1110666 Want to see what the rest of the world does with this sort of stuff? Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy Want to see what the rest of the world does with this sort of stuff? Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy

]]> By: duncan http://boingboing.net/2011/05/14/canadian-copyright-c-6.html#comment-1111694 duncan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1111694 "…and instead goes to recording artists directly" Show me who has received this - directly or even indirectly. Nobody is getting this money because they can't decide who to give it to. Does it go to Celine Dion because she's a big star and has (probably) been pirated a lot or is it split equally among CDN music writers/performers/etc. as a result of being a registered member of Socan? Neither as far as I know. Here's a scenario to ponder, Artist X is registered with Socan, has a band and gets a paltry royalty cheque when some one plays his band on college radio stations across the nation. He'd like to record a new album, which required lots of blank CDs. Not only is he not pirating music with them, he's a member of Socan recording his own original music. Can he get that extra tax back? Not easily, if at all. Does he see *any* of all that money collected ostensibly on his behalf? Nope. So why are we doing this again? And now on jumpdrives? Because we all keep so much tunage on our little portable flash drives. Yeah. That's what's killing the recording industry; jump drive storage. “…and instead goes to recording artists directly”

Show me who has received this – directly or even indirectly. Nobody is getting this money because they can’t decide who to give it to. Does it go to Celine Dion because she’s a big star and has (probably) been pirated a lot or is it split equally among CDN music writers/performers/etc. as a result of being a registered member of Socan? Neither as far as I know.

Here’s a scenario to ponder, Artist X is registered with Socan, has a band and gets a paltry royalty cheque when some one plays his band on college radio stations across the nation. He’d like to record a new album, which required lots of blank CDs. Not only is he not pirating music with them, he’s a member of Socan recording his own original music. Can he get that extra tax back? Not easily, if at all. Does he see *any* of all that money collected ostensibly on his behalf? Nope.

So why are we doing this again? And now on jumpdrives? Because we all keep so much tunage on our little portable flash drives. Yeah. That’s what’s killing the recording industry; jump drive storage.

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