Comments on: Who is LulzSec? A phone call with the hacker pranksters. (Xeni on The Madeleine Brand Radio Show) http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Tue, 18 Jun 2013 22:08:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1138947 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1138947 Except that these guys didn't leave notes. They disrupted service, which required companies to spend money to investigate the disruption and find ways around it. CCP, the company that runs EVE Online, stated that they go to external sources to help them deal with this type of problem, which I take to mean they have outside contractors. They have to evaluate their system to determine if any customers' accounts were compromised, whether credit card information was obtained, etc. So they have to pay them. This would result in actual damages for companies like CCP. Not to mention the opportunity costs of reassigning internal programmers to address the situation, when they could be developing code for expansions, improved servers, etc. On top of this, add the people who wanted to play the accounts they've paid for, but couldn't because CCP shut down their servers to avert any further damage. I recognize this is not the worst type of attack, but I would argue that it's not just a white-hat attack to notify someone of a vulnerability. Except that these guys didn’t leave notes. They disrupted service, which required companies to spend money to investigate the disruption and find ways around it. CCP, the company that runs EVE Online, stated that they go to external sources to help them deal with this type of problem, which I take to mean they have outside contractors. They have to evaluate their system to determine if any customers’ accounts were compromised, whether credit card information was obtained, etc. So they have to pay them. This would result in actual damages for companies like CCP. Not to mention the opportunity costs of reassigning internal programmers to address the situation, when they could be developing code for expansions, improved servers, etc. On top of this, add the people who wanted to play the accounts they’ve paid for, but couldn’t because CCP shut down their servers to avert any further damage.

I recognize this is not the worst type of attack, but I would argue that it’s not just a white-hat attack to notify someone of a vulnerability.

]]> By: Ryanwoofs http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1138697 Ryanwoofs Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1138697 A million? Out of 6.2 million total BitCoins available? That seems like a lot. Citation? A million? Out of 6.2 million total BitCoins available? That seems like a lot. Citation?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1138959 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1138959 Who cares about Sony i just hope LulzSec doesn't hack Xbox Live or something. Who cares about Sony i just hope LulzSec doesn’t hack Xbox Live or something.

]]> By: Gilbert Wham http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1141524 Gilbert Wham Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1141524 Seriously? Your bank uses a SINGLE password to authenticate you? And you used the same password on a gaming network. Sorry, but I don't believe you. Seriously? Your bank uses a SINGLE password to authenticate you? And you used the same password on a gaming network. Sorry, but I don’t believe you.

]]> By: a5h3r4 http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1138710 a5h3r4 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1138710 I said *dollars.* About 40k bitcoins. I said *dollars.* About 40k bitcoins.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1138968 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1138968 Leaving notes? DDOS:sing is nothing about leaving notes. It's like forcing all the lights to be red. It little to nothing to do with security of the cars themselves. Leaving notes?
DDOS:sing is nothing about leaving notes. It’s like forcing all the lights to be red. It little to nothing to do with security of the cars themselves.

]]> By: emmdeeaych http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1140508 emmdeeaych Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1140508 <i>... a rabid elephant on PCP wearing a top hat rampage through a crowded market with explosive banana diarrhea.</i> just look at it … a rabid elephant on PCP wearing a top hat rampage through a crowded market with explosive banana diarrhea.

just look at it

]]> By: holtt http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1139239 holtt Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1139239 +1 +1

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1139001 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1139001 i am still surprised to see that a lot of people are trying to figure out what they are all about, what their agenda is, why they hack certain targets, how to categorize them. it's actually really simple: they are trolling. i am still surprised to see that a lot of people are trying to figure out what they are all about, what their agenda is, why they hack certain targets, how to categorize them.

it’s actually really simple: they are trolling.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1139259 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1139259 They may be slashing tires and harming companies by DDoSing them but in the short term future that will force those companies to reinforce their tires, something that: 1) they should have done a looong time ago 2)will protect them from further harm they might have suffered at the hand of much less scrupulous hacker groups, at much greater costs than just downtime and user passwords revealed http://risky.biz/lulzsec They may be slashing tires and harming companies by DDoSing them but in the short term future that will force those companies to reinforce their tires, something that:
1) they should have done a looong time ago
2)will protect them from further harm they might have suffered at the hand of much less scrupulous hacker groups, at much greater costs than just downtime and user passwords revealed

http://risky.biz/lulzsec

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1139008 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1139008 No, the slashed tires analogy is pretty much spot on. Except for these companies it could cost them a hundred thousand dollars as opposed to a couple hundred. Although, given the nature of LoL, Minecraft, and EVE, I'd speculate that the 'opportunity cost" of their servers being down for 12 hours is nigh negligible. Oh god, CCP hires contractors to wait until a ddos ends. That's, um, to be expected, I suppose. I'd still laugh at a ferrari or lamborghini with slashed tires though... No, the slashed tires analogy is pretty much spot on. Except for these companies it could cost them a hundred thousand dollars as opposed to a couple hundred. Although, given the nature of LoL, Minecraft, and EVE, I’d speculate that the ‘opportunity cost” of their servers being down for 12 hours is nigh negligible.

Oh god, CCP hires contractors to wait until a ddos ends. That’s, um, to be expected, I suppose.

I’d still laugh at a ferrari or lamborghini with slashed tires though…

]]> By: HereticGestalt http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1138753 HereticGestalt Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1138753 I'm not sure you understand the meaning of "in it for the lulz." Sometimes people do things - art and sport/play come to mind - that are not primarily driven by agendas or profit motives. You don't have to be a "Dada extremist" to do things for no other reason than that you like to show off and be challenged and entertained, aka because you can. Why is it so hard to imagine that LulzSec is just not in it for the Big Message? They're funny and really good at what they do, and they keep people on their toes. It's not really a morally apt paradigm of behavior. I’m not sure you understand the meaning of “in it for the lulz.” Sometimes people do things – art and sport/play come to mind – that are not primarily driven by agendas or profit motives. You don’t have to be a “Dada extremist” to do things for no other reason than that you like to show off and be challenged and entertained, aka because you can.

Why is it so hard to imagine that LulzSec is just not in it for the Big Message? They’re funny and really good at what they do, and they keep people on their toes. It’s not really a morally apt paradigm of behavior.

]]> By: Gulliver http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1139018 Gulliver Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1139018 First they came for CBS, and I didn't speak out because I don't watch CBS. Then they came for the PC games, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a PC gamer. Then they came for the Sony Playstation, and I didn't speak out because I didn't have a Sony Playstation. Then they came for me and it turns out Microsoft's network sucks so hard hacking it was an improvement. First they came for CBS,
and I didn’t speak out because I don’t watch CBS.

Then they came for the PC games,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a PC gamer.

Then they came for the Sony Playstation,
and I didn’t speak out because I didn’t have a Sony Playstation.

Then they came for me
and it turns out Microsoft’s network sucks so hard hacking it was an improvement.

]]> By: or420 http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1139274 or420 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1139274 I still think this Lulz Sec hacking campaign will do little to make computer and network systems more secure. The fundamental realities are that security is reactive, computer and network systems are so complex that finding flaws is relatively easy and of course, humans are involved. The reason RSA got hacked is the same reason I keep cleaning out viruses from my family's computers. No matter how many times I establish basic security rules they should follow, one person tends to break them and they infect their machine. This behavior is mimicked not only by people who use a corporation's networks and computers, but also by sysadmins who, for one reason or another, don't apply the latest updates, or have lax security policies so the CEO doesn't have to go through hoops to connect to the network, or other countless reasons. For now, attackers have the advantage and have the power to break systems (relatively) stealthily, easily and from anywhere in the world with an internet connection. Until this security paradigm changes (though new security technologies or other means), I don't think we'll see meaningful change. I still think this Lulz Sec hacking campaign will do little to make computer and network systems more secure. The fundamental realities are that security is reactive, computer and network systems are so complex that finding flaws is relatively easy and of course, humans are involved. The reason RSA got hacked is the same reason I keep cleaning out viruses from my family’s computers. No matter how many times I establish basic security rules they should follow, one person tends to break them and they infect their machine. This behavior is mimicked not only by people who use a corporation’s networks and computers, but also by sysadmins who, for one reason or another, don’t apply the latest updates, or have lax security policies so the CEO doesn’t have to go through hoops to connect to the network, or other countless reasons.

For now, attackers have the advantage and have the power to break systems (relatively) stealthily, easily and from anywhere in the world with an internet connection. Until this security paradigm changes (though new security technologies or other means), I don’t think we’ll see meaningful change.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1139034 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1139034 If this was about data compromises, we can bicker metaphors forever. "Taking down the VIN of every unlocked car on the block, as well as any personal information in the glove box and posting copies of everything on every block in the house." That's entirely missing it. As someone who's had to deal with service denial in a variety of contexts, I can tell you that your argument is orthogonal to what you're really talking about. Seriously? Mojang? Your message to Mojang is that they should be consumers of bandwidth large enough that they can dictate to their Tier 1 provider what they should null-route? (P.S. The actual metaphor in this context is someone going down the block and letting the air out of the tires on every car. Some of them have their own pump, some of them can get a pump, some of them need to get their whole car towed, and some of them prepaid for 87 tire's full of air and all of those escaped.) If this was about data compromises, we can bicker metaphors forever. “Taking down the VIN of every unlocked car on the block, as well as any personal information in the glove box and posting copies of everything on every block in the house.”

That’s entirely missing it. As someone who’s had to deal with service denial in a variety of contexts, I can tell you that your argument is orthogonal to what you’re really talking about. Seriously? Mojang? Your message to Mojang is that they should be consumers of bandwidth large enough that they can dictate to their Tier 1 provider what they should null-route?

(P.S. The actual metaphor in this context is someone going down the block and letting the air out of the tires on every car. Some of them have their own pump, some of them can get a pump, some of them need to get their whole car towed, and some of them prepaid for 87 tire’s full of air and all of those escaped.)

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1142111 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1142111 The group itself is a annoying group, gamer enthusiasts that come home from work to play games- instead of say going out and beating the crap out of people and getting drunk- to let off steam. Some use it as a way to get rid of anger (fps, violent games) so they dont actually hurt people irl, Others use it to enjoy company with friends because irl they have hard time understanding other subjects other than games. So all they are doing is pissing off a part of society that I wouldn't recommend - I always say if someone did make games illegal in state that there would probably be more murders, rape, and shootouts cause you took a way to let off steam. Now as for the others sites I am have no comment to as they have no direct link to my life that I can change. Word of warning though more you expose how THE 'US' Internet problem is more russia will take advantage or other countries by getting hackers or hacking knowledge to take down sites for good... The group itself is a annoying group, gamer enthusiasts that come home from work to play games- instead of say going out and beating the crap out of people and getting drunk- to let off steam. Some use it as a way to get rid of anger (fps, violent games) so they dont actually hurt people irl, Others use it to enjoy company with friends because irl they have hard time understanding other subjects other than games. So all they are doing is pissing off a part of society that I wouldn’t recommend – I always say if someone did make games illegal in state that there would probably be more murders, rape, and shootouts cause you took a way to let off steam.

Now as for the others sites I am have no comment to as they have no direct link to my life that I can change. Word of warning though more you expose how THE ‘US’ Internet problem is more russia will take advantage or other countries by getting hackers or hacking knowledge to take down sites for good…

]]> By: Elijah http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1138786 Elijah Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1138786 @Ryanwoofs : yeah yeah - in all seriousness, I get you. Security breaches as a performance art can potentially serve the betterment of all. No sarcasm, I'm with you. And, <I>mea culpa</I>, I don't know enough about network security to truly understand how their exploit. From my perspective they seem like bullies. I acknowledge - and hope - that this is not so. @HereticGestalt : much less enthusiastic 'yeah.' I so want to type more, but that link I got sent? @Anon : Yeah, good link. <I>Touché</I>. @Xeni : sorry if I was out of line. @Ryanwoofs : yeah yeah – in all seriousness, I get you. Security breaches as a performance art can potentially serve the betterment of all. No sarcasm, I’m with you. And, mea culpa, I don’t know enough about network security to truly understand how their exploit.

From my perspective they seem like bullies. I acknowledge – and hope – that this is not so.

@HereticGestalt : much less enthusiastic ‘yeah.’ I so want to type more, but that link I got sent?

@Anon : Yeah, good link. Touché.

@Xeni : sorry if I was out of line.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1139810 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1139810 they should take out WOW; that would create chaos... :) they should take out WOW; that would create chaos… :)

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1142114 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1142114 Close but not close enough its like this, They walk down the street piss on car here, put a sticky note on it say lulz tango down, go over to another car slash the tires sticky note it saying sunk your ship lulz, finally go over to atm machine kick it few times then sticky it saying Got your accounts lulz here the are 60,000+ with passes - all you see is abc - 123 written 150 times.... As a hacking group in comparison to what they have down is pathetic plus HOW do we really know this group is responsible to the sony attack and not just saying that they did it. They may only saying they are doing this so they look cool as for ddos I dont doubt they did that because thats a simple task to do in comparison to hacking sony taking them down for while and stealing account info. Close but not close enough its like this, They walk down the street piss on car here, put a sticky note on it say lulz tango down, go over to another car slash the tires sticky note it saying sunk your ship lulz, finally go over to atm machine kick it few times then sticky it saying Got your accounts lulz here the are 60,000+ with passes – all you see is abc – 123 written 150 times…. As a hacking group in comparison to what they have down is pathetic plus HOW do we really know this group is responsible to the sony attack and not just saying that they did it. They may only saying they are doing this so they look cool as for ddos I dont doubt they did that because thats a simple task to do in comparison to hacking sony taking them down for while and stealing account info.

]]> By: Morrigan http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1138787 Morrigan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1138787 "We are the concentrated success of 2005 /b/, being "hunted" by the 2011 furry horde. Challenge accepted, losers. :D" Interesting. “We are the concentrated success of 2005 /b/, being “hunted” by the 2011 furry horde. Challenge accepted, losers. :D”

Interesting.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1139815 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1139815 They're more like terrorists hacking systems for "the lulz" but how funny is it when they get the balls to take all your money? When you wake up in the morning with no money and your house is gone with a note saying "ha lulz" how funny is it when you need a police officer quickly and all you get is "please hold" due to lulzsec hacking the phone lines... Its terrorism and to be honest they should be shut down and arrested before they hit serious things. Just my opinion though... They’re more like terrorists hacking systems for “the lulz” but how funny is it when they get the balls to take all your money? When you wake up in the morning with no money and your house is gone with a note saying “ha lulz” how funny is it when you need a police officer quickly and all you get is “please hold” due to lulzsec hacking the phone lines…

Its terrorism and to be honest they should be shut down and arrested before they hit serious things. Just my opinion though…

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1139048 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1139048 LulzSec is just Skidsrus people, where Ryan Cleary (one of the backstabbers of the older AnonOps network) is also hosting their IRC network. They are just irritating and annoying other people and network that are having holes in it. They sometimes use 0-sec exploits and sometimes they already hacked it some time ago. Some of the lulzsec guys are new but most of them are known from Skidsrus. LulzSec is just Skidsrus people, where Ryan Cleary (one of the backstabbers of the older AnonOps network) is also hosting their IRC network.
They are just irritating and annoying other people and network that are having holes in it.
They sometimes use 0-sec exploits and sometimes they already hacked it some time ago.
Some of the lulzsec guys are new but most of them are known from Skidsrus.

]]> By: Ambiguity http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1138794 Ambiguity Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1138794 Maybe I'm just being a bit naive, but it seems pretty obvious who they are: a group of kids having some fun. And like all such groups from the dawn of time, they're going to do (and have done) some things of questionable ethics and wisdom. On the other hand, they <i>do</i> seem to have a sense of humor and some of their hijinks are pretty funny (unlike Anonymous, who don't seem to have much of a sense of humor, apart from hacking the Spanish police site and shopping the GF masks onto the police). But yea, they've angered some pretty determined people, so I think this will end badly for them. Maybe I’m just being a bit naive, but it seems pretty obvious who they are: a group of kids having some fun. And like all such groups from the dawn of time, they’re going to do (and have done) some things of questionable ethics and wisdom.

On the other hand, they do seem to have a sense of humor and some of their hijinks are pretty funny (unlike Anonymous, who don’t seem to have much of a sense of humor, apart from hacking the Spanish police site and shopping the GF masks onto the police).

But yea, they’ve angered some pretty determined people, so I think this will end badly for them.

]]> By: purple-stater http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1139563 purple-stater Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1139563 [quote]This is more like going down the street, checking all the car doors and leaving notes in the unlocked cars telling them to start locking their doors. [/quote] No, it's more like they slashed the tires of Public Transportation buses. Breaking the law for a cause is at least somewhat understandable. "lulz" being your cause never is. [quote]This is more like going down the street, checking all the car doors and leaving notes in the unlocked cars telling them to start locking their doors. [/quote]

No, it’s more like they slashed the tires of Public Transportation buses.

Breaking the law for a cause is at least somewhat understandable. “lulz” being your cause never is.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1139820 Antinous / Moderator Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1139820 And the links to the news stories about those things happening are....? And the links to the news stories about those things happening are….?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1139056 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1139056 Oh, how the world has changed. You can now REQUEST A TARGET for LulzSec to attack. They are operating a phoneline for requests. Oh, how the world has changed. You can now REQUEST A TARGET for LulzSec to attack. They are operating a phoneline for requests.

]]> By: Teller http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1138812 Teller Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1138812 They're just job-hunting with real-time resumes. They’re just job-hunting with real-time resumes.

]]> By: sharon http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1139581 sharon Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1139581 I'm one of those people that had ALL there info STOLEN from Sony by LulzSec and a few days later I had money stollen from my Bank account and there are others that I'm friends with that have had the same thing happen to them after Sony got Hacked by LulzSec. Far as I'm concerned, they are a criminal organisation that are committing identity theft and frourd and they should all be sent to jail. I’m one of those people that had ALL there info STOLEN from Sony by LulzSec and a few days later I had money stollen from my Bank account and there are others that I’m friends with that have had the same thing happen to them after Sony got Hacked by LulzSec.
Far as I’m concerned, they are a criminal organisation that are committing identity theft and frourd and they should all be sent to jail.

]]> By: emmdeeaych http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1142406 emmdeeaych Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1142406 so... lulzsec is doing us a disservice by taking away the distractions that allow us not be sociopaths to each other at the end of the day? If what you say is true, then we own lulzsec way more than lulz. If our society is made up of distracted sociopaths, we're more fucked than we would be if sony were hackable. Then again, you might just mean you. so… lulzsec is doing us a disservice by taking away the distractions that allow us not be sociopaths to each other at the end of the day? If what you say is true, then we own lulzsec way more than lulz.

If our society is made up of distracted sociopaths, we’re more fucked than we would be if sony were hackable. Then again, you might just mean you.

]]> By: Courtney http://boingboing.net/2011/06/14/who-is-lulzsec-a-pho.html#comment-1138568 Courtney Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1138568 I don't get LulzSec. But I just wanted to say that "a rabid elephant on PCP wearing a top hat rampage through a crowded market with explosive banana diarrhea" is quite possibly one of the finest phrases I have read this week. I don’t get LulzSec.

But I just wanted to say that “a rabid elephant on PCP wearing a top hat rampage through a crowded market with explosive banana diarrhea” is quite possibly one of the finest phrases I have read this week.

]]>