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	<title>Comments on: Amazon: associates program in California to be terminated (Update: Gov. signs tax&#160;law)</title>
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	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: jacques45</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1151745</link>
		<dc:creator>jacques45</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1151745</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In California, there are 1700 jurisdictions that charge their own tax rates.
http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/files/city_rates.csv
Of course, most of them break down to 5 or 6 different rates, but still, a merchant has to keep track of them all? Multiply that by 50 states.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Amazingly enough, there&#039;s software out there that handles all that.  Any company that does physical business already needs to be on top of the complex tax code.  Asking a technology company that made $200 million in net income this past quarter to keep track of those same regulations is not impossible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In California, there are 1700 jurisdictions that charge their own tax rates.<br />
<a href="http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/files/city_rates.csv" rel="nofollow">http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/files/city_rates.csv</a><br />
Of course, most of them break down to 5 or 6 different rates, but still, a merchant has to keep track of them all? Multiply that by 50 states.</p></blockquote>
<p>Amazingly enough, there&#8217;s software out there that handles all that.  Any company that does physical business already needs to be on top of the complex tax code.  Asking a technology company that made $200 million in net income this past quarter to keep track of those same regulations is not impossible.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1152006</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1152006</guid>
		<description>States have brought about these types of lawsuits for years and years against mail-order and now internet businesses, going back 20 - 30+ years, in the 1,000&#039;s of lawsuits and each time, the states lose. The supreme court has said countless times that a state cannot collect tax from outside its borders. The law is pretty straight forward and simple. When Amazon claims these new laws are unconstitutional, that&#039;s exactly what they are. unconstitutional. In fact, several studies have already been done that prove states putting these laws on the books actually lose money, not make money. It&#039;s pure greed by states that already have a well established track record for mismanagement, greed and corruption at all levels of that states government. Amazon is clearly in the right here. People like you do a severe disservice to the general public at large by commenting on matters outside the realm of your understanding. Please, educate yourself. A state will never ever have the right to charge tax outside it&#039;s borders. There are only so many ways the supreme court can tell states this regardless of any unconstitutional laws they may try and pass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>States have brought about these types of lawsuits for years and years against mail-order and now internet businesses, going back 20 &#8211; 30+ years, in the 1,000&#8242;s of lawsuits and each time, the states lose. The supreme court has said countless times that a state cannot collect tax from outside its borders. The law is pretty straight forward and simple. When Amazon claims these new laws are unconstitutional, that&#8217;s exactly what they are. unconstitutional. In fact, several studies have already been done that prove states putting these laws on the books actually lose money, not make money. It&#8217;s pure greed by states that already have a well established track record for mismanagement, greed and corruption at all levels of that states government. Amazon is clearly in the right here. People like you do a severe disservice to the general public at large by commenting on matters outside the realm of your understanding. Please, educate yourself. A state will never ever have the right to charge tax outside it&#8217;s borders. There are only so many ways the supreme court can tell states this regardless of any unconstitutional laws they may try and pass.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1152518</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1152518</guid>
		<description>A family member lost her job over this when amazon found out she lived in colorado even though the main office was in oregon.
Amazon notified this online mom and pop operation that they would terminate all business with the oregon company if they didnt fire the colorado employee - because Colorado collects the same tax...so they fired her to be able to keep their business on amazon!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A family member lost her job over this when amazon found out she lived in colorado even though the main office was in oregon.<br />
Amazon notified this online mom and pop operation that they would terminate all business with the oregon company if they didnt fire the colorado employee &#8211; because Colorado collects the same tax&#8230;so they fired her to be able to keep their business on amazon!</p>
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		<title>By: DarthFudger</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1151751</link>
		<dc:creator>DarthFudger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1151751</guid>
		<description>States like California thought that by taxing everyone and wasting them away will solve their problems. Had taxes in California been fair enough to keep consumer prices down, there won&#039;t even be much needs to shop at Amazon.

If the state want to recover their tax revenues, they have better results sending tax collectors to where illegal immigrants set up their lucrative front yard sales. There no sales tax collected there and prices are low. Best of all, profits are send across the border, so no federal revenue either. With free school, food stamps, cash wages no wonder they come by the truck loads.

Locally established businesses can&#039;t even compete, they have to pay for permits, bullcrap taxes, fees, inspections, workers comp and other nonsense setup by the government to discourage doing business. And the officials wonder why businesses ran away to Texas as fast as they can move?

I surely hope they keep raising the goddamn taxes in that states and drive anyone with enough senses to move out of that state by the droves and leave the idiots comfortably paying their beloved double or quadruple taxation scheme. Want the weather? Disneyland? Just go and visit. Much cheaper than having chunks of your income constantly being chomped away by taxes and fees.

If you have entitlement mentality, don&#039;t move anywhere. California is just perfect for you.

California is the new Greece.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>States like California thought that by taxing everyone and wasting them away will solve their problems. Had taxes in California been fair enough to keep consumer prices down, there won&#8217;t even be much needs to shop at Amazon.</p>
<p>If the state want to recover their tax revenues, they have better results sending tax collectors to where illegal immigrants set up their lucrative front yard sales. There no sales tax collected there and prices are low. Best of all, profits are send across the border, so no federal revenue either. With free school, food stamps, cash wages no wonder they come by the truck loads.</p>
<p>Locally established businesses can&#8217;t even compete, they have to pay for permits, bullcrap taxes, fees, inspections, workers comp and other nonsense setup by the government to discourage doing business. And the officials wonder why businesses ran away to Texas as fast as they can move?</p>
<p>I surely hope they keep raising the goddamn taxes in that states and drive anyone with enough senses to move out of that state by the droves and leave the idiots comfortably paying their beloved double or quadruple taxation scheme. Want the weather? Disneyland? Just go and visit. Much cheaper than having chunks of your income constantly being chomped away by taxes and fees.</p>
<p>If you have entitlement mentality, don&#8217;t move anywhere. California is just perfect for you.</p>
<p>California is the new Greece.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1151752</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1151752</guid>
		<description>Look like it&#039;s time to get one of those snail mail remailer/forwarding services....in any of the other 49 states. 

It&#039;s funny, if ever a law was made to have the opposite of the intended effect, this tax law would be it. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look like it&#8217;s time to get one of those snail mail remailer/forwarding services&#8230;.in any of the other 49 states. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s funny, if ever a law was made to have the opposite of the intended effect, this tax law would be it. </p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1152269</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1152269</guid>
		<description>Except in states where we don&#039;t have sales tax...we still exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Except in states where we don&#8217;t have sales tax&#8230;we still exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1152270</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1152270</guid>
		<description>Yeah and cost tons of jobs in states that don&#039;t rely on a &quot;tax for nothing&quot;. Realize not all states have sales taxes and companies small and big would spend tons of money [ie. cut jobs] to implement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah and cost tons of jobs in states that don&#8217;t rely on a &#8220;tax for nothing&#8221;. Realize not all states have sales taxes and companies small and big would spend tons of money [ie. cut jobs] to implement.</p>
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		<title>By: Teller</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1151760</link>
		<dc:creator>Teller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1151760</guid>
		<description>A smart mob, I might add.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A smart mob, I might add.</p>
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		<title>By: itsgene</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1151764</link>
		<dc:creator>itsgene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1151764</guid>
		<description>I pay upwards of $7000 a year on my 830ft bungalow. Across the street, three houses owned by a single elderly couple - who don&#039;t live in any of them, but rent them out - pay $700 a year. Because the law was engineering to &quot;keep seniors in their home.&quot;

The problem here - which Proposition 13 illustrates as a symptom - is the direct democracy model in California wherein anyone can get anything on the ballot. An example would be a proposition stating that every Californian should be given $100 on their birthday. That would, of course, pass overwhelmingly! But then you&#039;d have a massive deficit. Try passing a tax hike of $100 per person per year, and you&#039;d never get it through. There, in a nutshell, is the problem.

And of course, you get Prop 8, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I pay upwards of $7000 a year on my 830ft bungalow. Across the street, three houses owned by a single elderly couple &#8211; who don&#8217;t live in any of them, but rent them out &#8211; pay $700 a year. Because the law was engineering to &#8220;keep seniors in their home.&#8221;</p>
<p>The problem here &#8211; which Proposition 13 illustrates as a symptom &#8211; is the direct democracy model in California wherein anyone can get anything on the ballot. An example would be a proposition stating that every Californian should be given $100 on their birthday. That would, of course, pass overwhelmingly! But then you&#8217;d have a massive deficit. Try passing a tax hike of $100 per person per year, and you&#8217;d never get it through. There, in a nutshell, is the problem.</p>
<p>And of course, you get Prop 8, too.</p>
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		<title>By: mausium</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1151768</link>
		<dc:creator>mausium</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1151768</guid>
		<description>&quot;No more Amazon ads on any of my sites.

I&#039;m not going to advertise for a bunch of whiny babies who start emailing threats when they don&#039;t get their way.&quot;

What are you smoking? This is a business decision, not &quot;emailed threats&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;No more Amazon ads on any of my sites.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not going to advertise for a bunch of whiny babies who start emailing threats when they don&#8217;t get their way.&#8221;</p>
<p>What are you smoking? This is a business decision, not &#8220;emailed threats&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Anti-State</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1152793</link>
		<dc:creator>Anti-State</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1152793</guid>
		<description>make both offline and online sales tax exempt. that will level the playing field and solve the problem immediately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>make both offline and online sales tax exempt. that will level the playing field and solve the problem immediately.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1151775</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1151775</guid>
		<description>Amen. I have a site that is perfect for finding books, does over 1 million page views per month, and I&#039;ve sent I don&#039;t know how many thousands of click thrus to Amazon every year for the past five years, and I think it pays thirty or forty dollars per year. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen. I have a site that is perfect for finding books, does over 1 million page views per month, and I&#8217;ve sent I don&#8217;t know how many thousands of click thrus to Amazon every year for the past five years, and I think it pays thirty or forty dollars per year. </p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1152802</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1152802</guid>
		<description>People aren&#039;t getting this. Here&#039;s the real scoop. 

What the states want is for all businesses to collect tax for the state, county, and city EACH and every buyer lives in. Even if it ends up being 22 cents for one transaction. And, those rates vary for the cities and counties and regularly change.

Multiply this times every state, city, and county in the U.S., and you can see where this would be a logistical nightmare. It could kill interstate business. 

Can you imagine if you were a small retailer, and you had to collect and remit taxes for thousands of these separate districts? It would make it impossible to conduct business. Amazon is larger, but it is still an incredible burden. For them to do this, they would have to add lots of staff and prices would go through the roof.

This is what people are not hearing and do not understand.

This is going to backfire and cost more jobs and revenue than they could hope to gain. The only thing that would work would be one national sales tax.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People aren&#8217;t getting this. Here&#8217;s the real scoop. </p>
<p>What the states want is for all businesses to collect tax for the state, county, and city EACH and every buyer lives in. Even if it ends up being 22 cents for one transaction. And, those rates vary for the cities and counties and regularly change.</p>
<p>Multiply this times every state, city, and county in the U.S., and you can see where this would be a logistical nightmare. It could kill interstate business. </p>
<p>Can you imagine if you were a small retailer, and you had to collect and remit taxes for thousands of these separate districts? It would make it impossible to conduct business. Amazon is larger, but it is still an incredible burden. For them to do this, they would have to add lots of staff and prices would go through the roof.</p>
<p>This is what people are not hearing and do not understand.</p>
<p>This is going to backfire and cost more jobs and revenue than they could hope to gain. The only thing that would work would be one national sales tax.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1152549</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1152549</guid>
		<description>Good job amazon. States need to learn that when they spend too much money and cry for more, businesses will not pay the bills for them. California is broke because we waste money like there is no tomorrow, not because online retailers are being greedy by keeping some of the money they earn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good job amazon. States need to learn that when they spend too much money and cry for more, businesses will not pay the bills for them. California is broke because we waste money like there is no tomorrow, not because online retailers are being greedy by keeping some of the money they earn.</p>
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		<title>By: mausium</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1151782</link>
		<dc:creator>mausium</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1151782</guid>
		<description>&quot;even the Republicans are beginning to call attempts to slow the economy in order to avoid taxes, Treason.&quot;

I don&#039;t know what world you&#039;re living in, but it&#039;s not this one. The GOP platform is based on avoidance of taxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;even the Republicans are beginning to call attempts to slow the economy in order to avoid taxes, Treason.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what world you&#8217;re living in, but it&#8217;s not this one. The GOP platform is based on avoidance of taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1152552</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1152552</guid>
		<description>money vs. constitution: who do you think will win?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>money vs. constitution: who do you think will win?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeanne</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1154347</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1154347</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.indiebound.org/&quot;&gt;IndieBound&lt;/a&gt; has an affiliate program that supports local, independent booksellers.  Since I don&#039;t appreciate being used as a pawn by Amazon, I&#039;ve switched all of my affiliate links to IndieBound.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.indiebound.org/">IndieBound</a> has an affiliate program that supports local, independent booksellers.  Since I don&#8217;t appreciate being used as a pawn by Amazon, I&#8217;ve switched all of my affiliate links to IndieBound.</p>
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		<title>By: oldtaku</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1151788</link>
		<dc:creator>oldtaku</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1151788</guid>
		<description>Nobody should be sympathizing with California here. The problem isn&#039;t lack of revenue, it&#039;s just how incredibly profligate the spending got during the fat years of the middle 2000s. And now that the budget process is so entirely f#@$ed up (all self inflicted) the current budget is packed to the gills with completely fraudulent line items for income (wild overestimates) and spending (laughable underestimates). 

State legislators don&#039;t get paid until there&#039;s a budget, so now it&#039;s personal. They can pass a budget with simple majority, but increasing taxes takes 2/3, so an already existing tax that&#039;s incompletely enforced looks like a godsend to the jackals who are desperate to get their own salaries reinstated.

Amazon&#039;s not to blame for any of that, and California&#039;s high sales tax rates shouldn&#039;t be their problem. If California wants to get grabby, just don&#039;t play.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody should be sympathizing with California here. The problem isn&#8217;t lack of revenue, it&#8217;s just how incredibly profligate the spending got during the fat years of the middle 2000s. And now that the budget process is so entirely f#@$ed up (all self inflicted) the current budget is packed to the gills with completely fraudulent line items for income (wild overestimates) and spending (laughable underestimates). </p>
<p>State legislators don&#8217;t get paid until there&#8217;s a budget, so now it&#8217;s personal. They can pass a budget with simple majority, but increasing taxes takes 2/3, so an already existing tax that&#8217;s incompletely enforced looks like a godsend to the jackals who are desperate to get their own salaries reinstated.</p>
<p>Amazon&#8217;s not to blame for any of that, and California&#8217;s high sales tax rates shouldn&#8217;t be their problem. If California wants to get grabby, just don&#8217;t play.</p>
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		<title>By: joe blough</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1151790</link>
		<dc:creator>joe blough</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1151790</guid>
		<description>actually, homeowners are not really the problem with prop 13. it&#039;s commercial real estate. corporations live forever and turnover of commercial real estate is very low, so they are the true beneficiaries of prop 13. and when a company sells a property they usually roll into another one and keep the same tax basis via the 1031 exchange.

if trickle down actually worked, california would be a capitalist utopia by now. are property owners passing along their tax savings to companies that rent their buildings? fat chance. they are pocketing the difference.

the collapse of california is directly attributable to prop 13. we were sold a bill of goods. meanwhile, the republicans distract joe six pack with the illegal immigrant issue. it&#039;s really a beautiful disinformation campaign, and it&#039;s all going exactly to plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>actually, homeowners are not really the problem with prop 13. it&#8217;s commercial real estate. corporations live forever and turnover of commercial real estate is very low, so they are the true beneficiaries of prop 13. and when a company sells a property they usually roll into another one and keep the same tax basis via the 1031 exchange.</p>
<p>if trickle down actually worked, california would be a capitalist utopia by now. are property owners passing along their tax savings to companies that rent their buildings? fat chance. they are pocketing the difference.</p>
<p>the collapse of california is directly attributable to prop 13. we were sold a bill of goods. meanwhile, the republicans distract joe six pack with the illegal immigrant issue. it&#8217;s really a beautiful disinformation campaign, and it&#8217;s all going exactly to plan.</p>
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		<title>By: ScottTFrazer</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1151791</link>
		<dc:creator>ScottTFrazer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1151791</guid>
		<description>Illinois passed a similar law. I have friends who work for two competing online coupon websites. One of them told me that they run about 30 affiliate marketing programs, roughly 29 of which terminated all of their affiliates inside Illinois.

So a company that employs about 50 people now has a choice to make: just watch that revenue drift into the sunset or set up shop in another state where there is no such law.

Either way, Illinois is losing revenue on payroll and corporate income in a useless effort to strongarm Amazon into collecting their sales tax for them.

Here&#039;s what Amazon&#039;s Bezos says: &quot;Our point-of-view on this is that we should simplify the sales tax system, and weâ€™ve been insisting on this for 10 years. We support the streamlined sales tax initiative, and 22 states have signed on. The right way to fix this is with federal legislation. Sales tax is very complicated. Weâ€™re no different from big chains of retailers. They donâ€™t collect sales tax in states where they donâ€™t have nexus either. So everyone is following the same rules.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Illinois passed a similar law. I have friends who work for two competing online coupon websites. One of them told me that they run about 30 affiliate marketing programs, roughly 29 of which terminated all of their affiliates inside Illinois.</p>
<p>So a company that employs about 50 people now has a choice to make: just watch that revenue drift into the sunset or set up shop in another state where there is no such law.</p>
<p>Either way, Illinois is losing revenue on payroll and corporate income in a useless effort to strongarm Amazon into collecting their sales tax for them.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s what Amazon&#8217;s Bezos says: &#8220;Our point-of-view on this is that we should simplify the sales tax system, and weâ€™ve been insisting on this for 10 years. We support the streamlined sales tax initiative, and 22 states have signed on. The right way to fix this is with federal legislation. Sales tax is very complicated. Weâ€™re no different from big chains of retailers. They donâ€™t collect sales tax in states where they donâ€™t have nexus either. So everyone is following the same rules.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: amiga</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1152823</link>
		<dc:creator>amiga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1152823</guid>
		<description>So Amazon, you don&#039;t want to pay taxes? So what is the difference between you and and a greedy amoral company?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Amazon, you don&#8217;t want to pay taxes? So what is the difference between you and and a greedy amoral company?</p>
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		<title>By: MichaelWalsh</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1151800</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelWalsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1151800</guid>
		<description>&quot;The online sales tax suspension has been in effect largely to give online retailers an advantage in starting up businesses over brick and mortar firms.&quot;

Nope.

The 1992 SCOTUS decision: Quill Corp. v. North Dakota, 504 U.S. 298 essentially said for an out of state business to be required to collect sales tax it had to have a presence in the state, i.e.: nexus.  

And the decicion was in regards to a mail order company.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The online sales tax suspension has been in effect largely to give online retailers an advantage in starting up businesses over brick and mortar firms.&#8221;</p>
<p>Nope.</p>
<p>The 1992 SCOTUS decision: Quill Corp. v. North Dakota, 504 U.S. 298 essentially said for an out of state business to be required to collect sales tax it had to have a presence in the state, i.e.: nexus.  </p>
<p>And the decicion was in regards to a mail order company.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1151807</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1151807</guid>
		<description>** Update **

Governor brown just signed the aforementioned affiliate nexus taxes into law minutes ago. They took effect instantly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>** Update **</p>
<p>Governor brown just signed the aforementioned affiliate nexus taxes into law minutes ago. They took effect instantly.</p>
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		<title>By: GlenBlank</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1152064</link>
		<dc:creator>GlenBlank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1152064</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It&#039;s unfair for the Smiths to pay $500 a year in taxes, because they bought it decades ago, when the Jones pay $5K annually for exactly the same house. It&#039;s not like the Smiths have stopped using public services.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m not elderly, or poor, or on a fixed income.  But consider my situation:

We bought a house barely a decade ago, just before the recent great real-estate bubble took off.  In about 7 years, the price of comparable houses in my neighborhood &lt;i&gt;tripled.&lt;/i&gt;

Despite the great increase in prices, the &lt;i&gt;value&lt;/i&gt; of my house remained the same: Its &lt;b&gt;value&lt;/b&gt;, to me, is that it&#039;s &lt;b&gt;a decent house in a nice neighborhood near the studio&lt;/b&gt; where my partner works.

If I&#039;d sold my house at the peak of the bubble, it would have sold for the (then-current) price of &lt;b&gt;a decent house in a nice neighborhood near the studio&lt;/b&gt;.  So what it was &lt;i&gt;worth&lt;/i&gt; - its actual &lt;b&gt;value&lt;/b&gt; - was exactly the same, despite the change in price.  

If I&#039;d sold my house then, but wanted to continue to have &lt;b&gt;a decent house in a nice neighborhood near the studio&lt;/b&gt;, it would have cost about the same as the (hugely inflated) price I would&#039;ve gotten.  So its &lt;b&gt;value&lt;/b&gt; didn&#039;t change at all.

Now, just a couple of years later, comparable houses are selling for about half to two-thirds what they were at the bubble&#039;s peak.  If I sold my house today, that&#039;s what I&#039;d get for it.  And that would still be just enough to buy to buy &lt;b&gt;a decent house in a nice neighborhood near the studio&lt;/b&gt;.  So, again, its &lt;b&gt;value&lt;/b&gt; remains exactly the same.  

The only way I could &#039;extract&#039; any &#039;value&#039; would be by giving up my decent house in a nice neighborhood near the studio and settling for something less.  

(And please, don&#039;t anyone start with that &#039;extract value with a home-equity loan&#039; crap.  That&#039;s a &lt;i&gt;loan&lt;/i&gt;.  I already have enough to credit to get loans of more money than I can afford to repay.  I don&#039;t need to hock my house to make that happen.)

And gosh knows the price of city services didn&#039;t triple in that seven-year interval.  Nor drop by half in the couple of years since.

Is it &#039;fair&#039; that my neighbor two houses down is paying three times as much property tax as I am?  Well, he spent three times what I did on his house.  If I&#039;d had to pay triple my original price, I wouldn&#039;t have - I wouldn&#039;t have been able to afford it.  

So the property tax is pegged to what you can afford to spend on a house, just like the sales tax on your car is pegged to what you can afford to spend on a car.  Even if the prices of cars go up later.

As others have said, the real problem with Prop 13 is the &quot;immortal-owner-corporation&quot; shenanigans that keep commercial property taxes from from rising, even when the property actually does change hands.

Perhaps there needs to be some more realistic way of adjusting residential taxes for long-time owners, but basing taxes on the insane fluctuations of speculator-driven housing price bubbles - which bear no real relationship to actual &lt;b&gt;value&lt;/b&gt; (and which recur with reliable regularity) - isn&#039;t going to fly - and for very good reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It&#8217;s unfair for the Smiths to pay $500 a year in taxes, because they bought it decades ago, when the Jones pay $5K annually for exactly the same house. It&#8217;s not like the Smiths have stopped using public services.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not elderly, or poor, or on a fixed income.  But consider my situation:</p>
<p>We bought a house barely a decade ago, just before the recent great real-estate bubble took off.  In about 7 years, the price of comparable houses in my neighborhood <i>tripled.</i></p>
<p>Despite the great increase in prices, the <i>value</i> of my house remained the same: Its <b>value</b>, to me, is that it&#8217;s <b>a decent house in a nice neighborhood near the studio</b> where my partner works.</p>
<p>If I&#8217;d sold my house at the peak of the bubble, it would have sold for the (then-current) price of <b>a decent house in a nice neighborhood near the studio</b>.  So what it was <i>worth</i> &#8211; its actual <b>value</b> &#8211; was exactly the same, despite the change in price.  </p>
<p>If I&#8217;d sold my house then, but wanted to continue to have <b>a decent house in a nice neighborhood near the studio</b>, it would have cost about the same as the (hugely inflated) price I would&#8217;ve gotten.  So its <b>value</b> didn&#8217;t change at all.</p>
<p>Now, just a couple of years later, comparable houses are selling for about half to two-thirds what they were at the bubble&#8217;s peak.  If I sold my house today, that&#8217;s what I&#8217;d get for it.  And that would still be just enough to buy to buy <b>a decent house in a nice neighborhood near the studio</b>.  So, again, its <b>value</b> remains exactly the same.  </p>
<p>The only way I could &#8216;extract&#8217; any &#8216;value&#8217; would be by giving up my decent house in a nice neighborhood near the studio and settling for something less.  </p>
<p>(And please, don&#8217;t anyone start with that &#8216;extract value with a home-equity loan&#8217; crap.  That&#8217;s a <i>loan</i>.  I already have enough to credit to get loans of more money than I can afford to repay.  I don&#8217;t need to hock my house to make that happen.)</p>
<p>And gosh knows the price of city services didn&#8217;t triple in that seven-year interval.  Nor drop by half in the couple of years since.</p>
<p>Is it &#8216;fair&#8217; that my neighbor two houses down is paying three times as much property tax as I am?  Well, he spent three times what I did on his house.  If I&#8217;d had to pay triple my original price, I wouldn&#8217;t have &#8211; I wouldn&#8217;t have been able to afford it.  </p>
<p>So the property tax is pegged to what you can afford to spend on a house, just like the sales tax on your car is pegged to what you can afford to spend on a car.  Even if the prices of cars go up later.</p>
<p>As others have said, the real problem with Prop 13 is the &#8220;immortal-owner-corporation&#8221; shenanigans that keep commercial property taxes from from rising, even when the property actually does change hands.</p>
<p>Perhaps there needs to be some more realistic way of adjusting residential taxes for long-time owners, but basing taxes on the insane fluctuations of speculator-driven housing price bubbles &#8211; which bear no real relationship to actual <b>value</b> (and which recur with reliable regularity) &#8211; isn&#8217;t going to fly &#8211; and for very good reason.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1155649</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1155649</guid>
		<description>Sadly, our nonprofit independent schools will be impacted. Having an Amazon link on our website enabled our schools to earn credits towards book purchases for our growing library. No more! Shame on you Governor Brown for cutting revenue for education.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly, our nonprofit independent schools will be impacted. Having an Amazon link on our website enabled our schools to earn credits towards book purchases for our growing library. No more! Shame on you Governor Brown for cutting revenue for education.</p>
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		<title>By: MichaelWalsh</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1151810</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelWalsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1151810</guid>
		<description>&quot;Multiply that by 50 states.&quot;

Actually, only 45 states have a sales tax. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Multiply that by 50 states.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, only 45 states have a sales tax. </p>
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		<title>By: MichaelWalsh</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1151812</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelWalsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1151812</guid>
		<description>Actually, only 45 states have a sales tax. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, only 45 states have a sales tax. </p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1151819</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1151819</guid>
		<description>The relevance is that California&#039;s law states that the use of Affiliates constitutes a physical presence in the state.  The Supreme Court&#039;s Quill vs. ND decision said no physical presence, no sales tax collection by the retailer required.

This is the same thing that other states are doing and why Amazon is pulling out of them, as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The relevance is that California&#8217;s law states that the use of Affiliates constitutes a physical presence in the state.  The Supreme Court&#8217;s Quill vs. ND decision said no physical presence, no sales tax collection by the retailer required.</p>
<p>This is the same thing that other states are doing and why Amazon is pulling out of them, as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1151823</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1151823</guid>
		<description>Besides the tax issues, it has a stagnating effect on the economy because, in many cases, you&#039;d be crazy to sell your property. In my brief and bitter stint as a realtor, I ran into many, many people who could afford the purchase price of a new home, but couldn&#039;t get around the enormous increase in property tax that they&#039;d have to eat. It deforms the whole state economy to benefit a small number of people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Besides the tax issues, it has a stagnating effect on the economy because, in many cases, you&#8217;d be crazy to sell your property. In my brief and bitter stint as a realtor, I ran into many, many people who could afford the purchase price of a new home, but couldn&#8217;t get around the enormous increase in property tax that they&#8217;d have to eat. It deforms the whole state economy to benefit a small number of people.</p>
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		<title>By: toyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon-kills-associa.html#comment-1151825</link>
		<dc:creator>toyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1151825</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s quite incredible how this might happen in the country that groks globalization better than any other. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s quite incredible how this might happen in the country that groks globalization better than any other. </p>
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