Wikileaks fundraising ad, and Assange taking credit for Egypt revolution, criticized

WikiLeaks head Julian Assange seems to be taking credit for "Arab Spring" in a recently released fundraising video. Dan Murphy in the CSM has a critical take: "Hundreds of thousands risking their lives to face down a tyrant? Expensive. Taking credit for it from a London mansion? Cheap."

Boing Boing editor/partner and tech culture journalist Xeni Jardin hosts and produces Boing Boing's in-flight TV channel on Virgin America airlines (#10 on the dial), and writes about living with breast cancer. Diagnosed in 2011. @xeni on Twitter. email: xeni@boingboing.net.

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Anonymous

“Hundreds of thousands risking their lives to face down a tyrant? Expensive. Taking credit for it from a London mansion? Cheap.” — That’s quite a “critical take.” Of a commercial. If you’re interested in what Assange actually thinks of Wikileaks’ role in Arab Spring you could look at the July 2nd event at the Frontline Club with Zizek and Assange where moderator Amy Goodman asks Assange point-blank what role he thinks Wikileaks played in Arab Spring: he doesn’t take credit for it, but instead launches into a lengthy discussion of recent human-rights and media issues in the Arab world — no “obtuse, self-satisfied statements” to reveal the vile egomania you eagerly pounce on. Snipe away, though!

http://www.c-span.org/Events/Frontline-Club-Discussion-on-WikiLeaks-with-Julian-Assange/10737422674/
Antinous / Moderator

Is it possible that the CIA has replaced the real J-Ass with a simulacrum programmed to make obtuse, self-satisfied statements?
- boo
  
  Why would they need to?
- Church
  
  “Moderator.” The word has a meaning.
  - Anonymous
    
    For those who don’t know, it means that when Antinous isn’t posting here himself, he’s doing a great deal of work filtering out and approving other comments. Sometimes people confuse this with “moderate”, I think.
    - daev
      
      I respect mods for doing what they do, and putting up with the written whims of the masses.
      
      Most of them, however, stick to moderating and understand that the respect wears thin when a moderator uses the position to steer debate or interject personal opinion.
      
      Moderators are expected to at least keep a semblance of impartiality.
      
      Since I hate to poison a thread with off-topic bullshit, I’d like to thank a couple of posters who actually had some leads to the first question that popped into my head: “What info from WL did they see that I didn’t?” since I have read barely any of the leaked material. You know who you are, thanks!
      
      On the flipside, that’s some pretty bad ad copy right there. Too easy to misconstrue into the “I invented the internet” crap.
      - Antinous / Moderator
        
        Moderators are expected to at least keep a semblance of impartiality.
        
        You seem to have mistaken BB for some taxpayer-funded public utility.
      - Cowicide
        
        You seem to have mistaken BB for some taxpayer-funded public utility.
        
        Doesn’t he know this is a Koch-brother-front-group-think-tank? Sheesh…
  - Anonymous
    
    Yes, but:
    
    “Antinous drowned in denial in October 130.”
    
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinous
- Anonymous
  
  Seriously – Assange has been like this from the very start. Don’t mistake altruism for narcissism.
  - Cowicide
    
    Don’t mistake altruism for narcissism.
    
    Maybe Assange a bit of both?
    - Antinous / Moderator
      
      People who create social change are rather often obnoxious assholes. It’s possible to appreciate their contributions to society without feeling obliged to ask them over for supper.
      - Cowicide
        
        Agreed… and I don’t have any Twitty Burgers anyways… ;D
Mister44

Meh. 10-20 years from now his involvement in the Arab Spring will be a foot note, or reduced to small mention. There are many, many more important factors building up for many years that lead to the Arab Spring. 99% of the credit lies with those who were there and protested/rebelled and those behind the scenes forming alliances to make it possible.

I haven’t seen a whole lot done with the information wikileaks has released. I haven’t seen it change the world for better, other than perhaps popularizing the wholesale dissemination of otherwise ‘secret’ information for all to see. If it weren’t for Manning, it would hardly be worth mentioning (speaking of risking life and liberty, that would be Manning, not Assange.)
- Cowicide
  
  speaking of risking life and liberty, that would be Manning, not Assange.
  
  That would also be Assange unless you are to be completely obtuse. Try educating yourself with the links I included in my previous posts that clearly show both life and liberty are at risk for Assange.
  
  I haven’t seen a whole lot done with the information wikileaks has released. I haven’t seen it change the world for better
  
  You apparently only see what you want to see. Never mind facts/reality.
Anonymous

as far as tunisia is concerned, i have heard from most of my friends that wikileaks did in fact play a role in losing the fear: for decades, all that mattered to the west was stability and cheap resources. news and press statements from europe pretty much confirmed the impression that the ben ali truth found its way around the globe.

the cables really changed something. some of them were a candid, systematic description of what the majority just could not bear anymore. and it was all coming from the mouth of the 90000 ton gorilla.

how do you convince a people to lose a debilitating fear? plain-spoken assessment of the crisis by somebody who had always been a major source of government affirmation can help a lot.

it was like if his tailor had testified in writing that the emperor had no clothes.

.~.
deckard68

Wait, are we supposed to be against Wikileaks now? It is so hard to stay trendy. I’m just going to remain in support of them. Call me old-fashioned.
Cowicide

Assange risking life and liberty to bring forward war crimes and corruption from powerful enemies. Expensive. Dan Murphy risking ridicule by attacking Assange? Cheap.
Anonymous

Sure, you CAN reduce Julian Assange to a decidedly polemic ad that the Wikileaks PR people put out; OR you could listen to recent interviews of his where he takes a much milder stance in the terms of “we provided some information that apparently helped fuel the fires that were already started”.

Then again, it’s just so much more simple to shout loudly and bang cans together, isn’t it?
- Cowicide
  
  Then again, it’s just so much more simple to shout loudly and bang cans together, isn’t it?
  
  Indeed, it is.
Anonymous

say whatever you want about the video’s contents – the purpose is clearly meant to raise money for whatever purposes assange wishes. still no audits to my knowledge as to where it goes.
Cowicide

Um.. and lest we forget…

WikiLeaks Hailed by Amnesty International as Arab Spring ‘Catalyst’

I saw the video in question and a large amount of people found inspiration in the video. But hey, if that video pisses you off? Good for you and very good for Dan Murphy that no one wants to assassinate him. Dan Murphy is such a brave soul.
Anonymous

I don’t think Assange is taking credit for the Egypt revolution in this ad. It says “Watching the world change as a result of your work… Priceless”. And I think it’s true. The world has changed as a result of Wikileaks, as it has also changed as a result of Wikipedia, Facebook, Twitter, etc. The digital age has brought new platforms that allow for new ways to communicate, which, in turn, lead to social change. The ad does not say “without Wikileaks the Egypt revolution wouldn’t have occurred”. I think that thanks to Wikileaks, among other innovative iniciatives, we live in a world more concerned about transparency. We don’t want to swallow more lies comming from our governments. I’m from Spain, and I can tell that the so-called “Spanishrevolution” has also been sparked, in some way, by Wikileaks.
Cowicide

One more thing I noticed… Dan Murphy must be 1 of the 190 people who “disliked” the YouTube video. 9,329 so far have voted they “like” it. (This was from the video he linked to from his shitty little article by the way).

I guess us unwashed hordes just aren’t as smart as people like Dan and we all got hoodwinked by Wikileaks once again into believing that exposing corruption is a NOBLE ACT or something.
- Anonymous
  
  Appeal to majority much?
  - Cowicide
    
    Appeal to majority much?
    
    Red herring, much?
    
    Hmm… you don’t have a real argument about any facts, so you try an ad hominem attack and see if that floats, huh? Sad.
hellishmundane

Well i guess ill say you win the argument as my criticisms of the video do seem like they would require a predetermined negative view of Assange. I should have used the term allegations and i chose not to mostly cause the sentence looked awkward when i typed it that way. but also it does seem like you offer an insight in to what im missing here. You said,”He’s clearly stated that he’s innocent of the allegations.” and this is probably enough reason for the majority of wikileaks supporters to feel perfectly comfortable with the use of “house arrest” in the fundraising video without feeling any need to think about it critically. and his statement,”Watching the world change as a result of your work? Priceless”. Is a general enough statement that it can be interpreted multiple ways such as the extremely negative interpretation Dan Murphy takes, but also the more affirming and less grandiose read that the average wikileaks supporters would infer. Anyways it is just a fundraising video. Though I even stated that wikileaks should consider another spokesperson i am not against Assange I just like to keep as critical a view as possible towards people whose accomplishments i respect.
- Cowicide
  
  Yeah, people are a pain in the ass. If I only listened to music from people I respect, then I’d probably be stuck with Conway Twitty… and I’m not even really sure I respect that fucker after he started Twitty Burger.
Anonymous

Yeah, Assange is really living it up in his London mansion!

Waterboarding? Those detainees were just drinking some delicious spring water! La ti dah! Crucifixion? Jesus was playing on a pogo stick! Some poor Roman kids would have killed for the opportunity! Fukushima? The NHK was treated to free radiotherapy! That’s socialism in my book. Segregation? Those lucky black bastards got their *own* drinking fountains! Where’s my drinking fountain? The Holocaust? A camping trip! Free tattoos! Guaranteed work! A religious retreat! Complimentary pyjamas!

Fuck this guy.
humanresource

I’ve watched the two-hour video that Murphy links to in his hatchet job. Assange explained, at length, that there were all sorts of pressures bubbling up before the Arab spring, but it was the martyrdom and mass protest that really transformed things. Wikileaks helped to catalyse this by making the accusations against the regime undeniable, and by releasing so much material at once that it put several Arab governments on the defensive simultaneously. Polling from the Arab world supports this view, as does Amnestyâ€™s assessment. Given the excessive credit Facebook has received, proper acknowledgement of Wikileaks is definitely called for.
Deidzoeb

In the two hour discussion with Slavoj Zizek broadcast on July 2, Assange seemed to present a balanced view of how Wikileaks influenced the “Arab Spring.”
hellishmundane

i like wikileaks and im willing to except that they are one contributing factor to change but that video comes off quite pompous. Juxtaposing what looks like a nice house with video of a revolution does not bring any sympathy from me. and am i missing something here because i thought the “house arrest” was due to a sexual assault charge. Since when does contributing to change suddenly get you off the hook for any acts of sexual assault. if anything wikileaks should at least consider using a different spokesperson then Assange.
- humanresource
  
  You are missing something here. Assange hasn’t been charged with anything in Sweden.
- Cowicide
  
  am i missing something here because i thought the “house arrest” was due to a sexual assault charge
  
  Yes, your missing a lot actually. It has more to do with the United States trying to get their hands on Assange and the fight for extradition (because they want to kill him or at least imprison him for the rest of his life with maybe a little “torture” on the side). I would venture to guess if this was all about a “sex by surprise” charge or whatever they are calling it nowadays, he would have already returned with lawyers to stand up in court. Unfortunately, this isn’t as black & white as you would make it appear.
  
  that video comes off quite pompous.
  
  I don’t think it’s pompous. I think it’s PROUD. Fuck, it’s not like Americans don’t beat their fucking chests at how great they are every five fucking seconds.
  
  I think Wikileaks and Julian Assange have every reason to be proud of themselves for being incredibly integral in exposing worldwide corruption and United States war crimes, etc.
  
  My God, with all the pompous asses running around in America who haven’t done jack shit for this world… THIS is what gets us all riled up?
  
  I’m PROUD of Wikileaks. I don’t have a problem with this video. For once, it’s nice to see someone who’s proud and DESERVES to be so.
  - hellishmundane
    
    i should reiterate that i like wikileaks…I am only arguing that the video is in poor taste at the least. I do like that the video jabs at MasterCard in a clever way. But his final statement seems pompous “Watching the world change as a result of your work? Priceless” it sounds like he is taking credit for starting the revolution. When he’s stated elsewhere a more relistic version of wikileaks contribution to the revolution.
    and as for you helping me figure out what im missing im afraid you cant help me as you seem to be missing even more. Assange is not charged with “sex by surprise” there is no law in Sweden covering that nor is that term ever used during the decision to put him under house arrest. What is stated is that he is wanted for sexual assault in Sweden due to an act of unlawful coercion and acts of sexual molestation. It is entirely plausible that political interests had encouraged the opening of this legal case against him in an attempt to hinder his work on wikileaks. Even more plausible considering the two women in the case were initially only interested in Assange complying with STD tests.
    This is definitely not an attempt by the US to torture and kill him. When the US wants to do that it just goes ahead and does it. Wired has an interesting article on that subject titled,”â€˜Some Will Call Me a Torturerâ€™: CIA Man Reveals Secret Jail”.
    What i still am failing to understand is the choice to mention the “house arrest” in the video at all as it has nothing to do with MasterCard’s choice to cut one of wikileaks’ sources of income. Then to juxtapose the beautiful mansion he is being forced to live in with a video of people giving their blood on the streets to bring about revolution. it’s almost comical. Assange is doing a harm as spokesperson for wikileaks when he’s comparing his websites’ accomplishments to the hardships he’s going through dealing with a sexual assault case. Were wikileaks to use a spokesperson whose private life isn’t less then questionable they would do a far better job of highlighting their accomplishments. there is no rule anywhere that says the editor and chief also has to be the spokesperson as there are a lot more people who make up wikileaks then just Assange.
    - Cowicide
      
      i should reiterate that i like wikileaks
      
      I read that when you said it the first time. No need to reiterate. I never questioned whether you like wikileaks or not because to me it’s beside the point.
      
      But his final statement seems pompous “Watching the world change as a result of your work? Priceless” it sounds like he is taking credit for starting the revolution.
      
      It clearly doesnâ€™t say he’s taking all the credit for starting an entire revolution. You, on the other hand, have to take gratuitous liberties with the statement to make that assertion. Most folks reading that aren’t going to distort it into another paradigm and will instead, take it on its actual words.
      
      The reality? Wikileaks WAS a catalyst in the Arab Spring and that IS something to be proud of. Sorry you and others have a problem with that factual assertion.
      
      and as for you helping me figure out what im missing im afraid you cant help me as you seem to be missing even more. Assange is not charged with “sex by surprise” there is no law in Sweden covering that nor is that term ever used during the decision to put him under house arrest.
      
      You missed it.
      
      And, you devolve into trite semantics instead of addressing my point. Here, I’ll basically repeat myself. There is very little disagreement that Interpolâ€™s aggressive pursuit of Assange is politically motivated. To ignore that fact and how it drastically influences his current situation is obtuse.
      - hellishmundane
        
        Well your argument has improved and i appreciate that. But the link you provided is uninformative due to its biased opinion and its analytical conclusion that sounds a lot like a fallacy of generalizing. So it still doesn’t help me to understand the inclusion of the “house arrest” incident in a wikileaks fundraising video. I’m not arguing against the fact that the main reason Assange is in “house arrest” is political. What concerns me is the other part of why he is in “house arrest”, the possibility that he may have committed sexual assault. look at Claes BorgstrÃ¶m’s involvement in the case to get a possible gauge for the levity of Assange’s crime. Wikileaks should be distancing itself from this case and not addressing the issue in a fundraising video. What i’m missing is why everyone has already concluded that there is no real case against Assange.
Cowicide

Well your argument has improved and i appreciate that. But the link you provided is uninformative due to its biased opinion and its analytical conclusion that sounds a lot like a fallacy of generalizing. So it still doesn’t help me to understand the inclusion of the “house arrest” incident in a wikileaks fundraising video.

Then don’t bother with the link and re-read my previous statements including: “There is very little disagreement that Interpolâ€™s aggressive pursuit of Assange is politically motivated.”

I’m not arguing against the fact that the main reason Assange is in “house arrest” is political.

Well, your argument has improved and i appreciate that. ;D

What concerns me is the other part of why he is in “house arrest”, the possibility that he may have committed sexual assault.

He might have also possibly arranged for space aliens to take over the world. But, until he’s proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, I’m not going to assume his innocence or guilt. He’s clearly stated that he’s innocent of the allegations. Until he confesses or is convicted, I’m not going to look at everything he does in a TV commercial with skepticism and nor should you.

look at Claes BorgstrÃ¶m’s involvement in the case to get a possible gauge for the levity of Assange’s crime.

You keep slipping up and showing your true side. Assange’s crime? What crime has he committed? There are allegations of a crime.

Claes BorgstrÃ¶m being involved doesn’t tell us anything about “which levity” Assange is most concerned with. You want levity? Try pissing off the United States by burying its nose in its own war-crime-shit. Do you understand what’s going on? Leaders in the U.S. are clearly calling for Assange’s assassination. They aren’t “kidding” about it, ok? The United States Government has made it very clear they are attempting to get ahold of Assange as well.

I would hope you’d get a decent lawyer for that too. You might want to try and get a little more perspective on these issues.

Wikileaks should be distancing itself from this case and not addressing the issue in a fundraising video.

You’ve already admitted that the “main reason” Assange is in “house arrest” is for political reasons. Not addressing that fact in a fundraising video would be a deceptive, ludicrous attempt to sweep the elephant in the room under the rug.

What i’m missing is why everyone has already concluded that there is no real case against Assange.

What I’m missing is why you’ve already concluded that here IS a real case against Assange? Sorry, your many Freudian slips are pretty telling at this point. Let’s face it. Let’s get real. You may be for Wikileaks, but you are most certainly already against Assange.

Sorry, some of us won’t presume guilt until he’s found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt within a court of law. I have no idea if Assange is innocent just as you have no idea if he’s guilty.
Neon Tooth

More annoyed by seeing lazy journalists giving all that credit to facebook and twitter, and there was some of that going on around…….