A
mannequin is a wooden, sometimes plastic, figure to display clothes.
It’s not a representation of how a person “should” look. I’m more
concerned about self-conscious people pointing the finger and assuming
that a mannequin in a clothing store is “supposed” to be than I am about
a plastic dummy. And this is coming from a former anorexic. I’ve never
looked at a mannequin, a model, or a cartoon character and thought “If I
starve myself, I’ll look like that”. Eating disorders tend to be much
deeper than visual influence.

oh — and here’s me thing it was because it’s inappropriate to go naked in public, i enjoy certain styles and fabrics, and my job had a dress code i must comply to.

and what part of “they are selling an *image*” did you not catch from my post?

Back when I took fashion marketing, on our first day we learned the golden rule. 
The most effective way to make people purchase our clothes is to make them feel insecure about themselves.

Don’t fool yourself. The entire point of the fashion industry is to make you feel insecure about yourself. Thats why you buy our clothes, to make yourself feel better.

“It would be more logical, from the evidence, to claim skinny models and mannequins cause women to get fat.”
It would be more logical, from the evidence, to claim that you are incapable of proper logical thought structure.

I heartily object to this statement. I think your reading is very fair, but I think the other reading is not necessarily indicative of obliviousness. I think it’s quite possible to disagree with “real women have curves” just because it’s simplistic and sloppy wording. 

Average and thin women are not considered “real” by modern fashion and advertising industries — they’re considered “ideal.”

I feel it’s fair to say that the fashion and ad industries are quite aware what “real” women look like (answer: all kinds of things) but they’re trying to sell *one ideal* partly because it’s more cost-effective and partly because it’s a great way to get people to buy out of fear.

To pick out “curves” as the way to describe or define a woman is another half-baked way to assuade women’s body insecurities. We talk a lot about fat and thin when discussing body image, but there is less concern talking about society’s ideas about what makes a woman — basically, in opposition to a man. Basically, a woman should have breasts and hips, and we’re particular about how big or significant those breasts and hips are.

(Side note: When I cut my hair, I was deeply surprised how *strongly* people (hetero
men, particularly, but women as well) felt about women having long
hair. It wasn’t just “I like long hair” but “I wouldn’t date a short-haired
woman”, “I think they’re ugly,” “I think they don’t look like women”,
etc. It’s a haircut, get over it.)

There is general awareness about how women can be made insecure about breast size, I hope. This is particularly a problem for thin women, since less body fat generally means smaller breasts, but it’s an issue faced by all women. I know some plus-sized ladies who don’t like that clothing stores assume that because they’re big elsewhere, they have big chests too.

There seems to be a feeling that thin women are universally lauded, but thin women with “no” chests or hips are often considered with similar repulsion. I’ve come across a significant number of comments remarking that “I like a little meat on the bones” or “I don’t want to sleep with a man.”

Also, how can a woman have “no” hips or breasts? If she has a torso, she has breasts! If she has legs, she has hips!

So I don’t think “real women have curves” addresses this image perpetuated by society. It’s also the image perpetuated in magazines (e.g. like Maxim) or lingerie ads. These women *have* curves — they’ve got ample chests, pert butts, streamlined but not bony thighs. They just also happen to have flat abs of steel and near-perfect tone. They’re still not the average woman.

Suffice to say, I just don’t care for what anyone has to say when it comes to what anyone “should” look like, or what a “real” anything is. If you exist, you’re real. You may not be the ideal, but ideals aren’t real anyway.

I would have focused (heh) on the clerk.

Clerk, rapidly approaching and waving hands: “Sir! Sir! Stop that! No pictures! You can’t take pictures in the store.”
Me: “What, like this?” *click!*
Me: “Or like this?” *click!*
Me: “Or maybe with the flash?” *flash-flash-flash-click!*
Me, looking at the display, then turning it so the clerk can see: “Hey, check it out, this makes a nice series.  I think I’ll call it ‘Faces of Apoplexy’.  You look good in beet red.”

I’m not going to suggest that someone else — Cory’s wife — should harass the clerk for yucks, but if it were just me …

Because the fashion industry does not have a long history of discriminating against thin people and purveying unhealthily heavy body images to girls and teens. If they did, then people might complain about large size mannequins.

But they don’t. The opposite is true. The fact that some people are healthily thin does not suddenly erase all the harm that fashion advertising has done to women. It may not have harmed you, but it has harmed many.

If “real women have curves” is not inclusive enough for you, then you’re being oblivious to the historical exclusion of plus-size women (historical being narrowly defined as the last few decades). The point of those statements is that women with curves can finally hear that they are are *also* real women, along with the average and thin women *who have always been considered real women* by the modern fashion/advertising industries.

This is being presented as a norm to western women

No. This is marketed to “petite” and naturally slim women who are _outside_ the norm. That’s the whole point. This line isn’t called “Always Normal.”

If you take a look at The Gap’s website you’ll find photos of real women with legs that thin who don’t look unhealthy. The perspective isn’t very good in the photo which may make it look a bit strange.

As a thin (but not unhealthily so) man who has a really hard time getting clothes that fit, I say bravo for thinking of us thin people. We’re humans too, you know.

Also, the “death camp” comment is totally unwarranted. It’s probably due to my family history, but I don’t respond well to frivolous use of terms like that for shock (= click bait in this case) or entertainment purposes. I don’t think I’m alone.

pffffffffffffffft, whatever.  yes, models are thin generally, but that’s runway — those usually aren’t the same clothes that make it into the stores; they are more exaggerated, stylized versions — they’re art pieces, really, and representative of a designer’s style and artistic direction for a given season.  and those sizes certainly don’t make it into the store.  as for print advertisements et cetera, those girls are still bigger than, say, i am or ever forsee being.  it’s just an ad.  a fantasy.  i don’t look at a victoria’s secret and and go running to get a set of boob and butt implants; i’m not gonna sit here and scream discrimination over it, because just like with the rest of the fashion industry they are selling an *image* that they hope you’ll find enjoyable and associate with their clothes when you see them in the stores.

and speaking of what’s in the store, size-wise there’s no comparison between what’s available in large versus small styles.  hell, larger sizes aren’t just in the regular stores — they get their own stores, too.  what smaller sizes there are either don’t exist in the first place, are in the kids’ department (which doesn’t work out so well for you if you’re tall), are made for petites (so you’re still screwed if you’re tall), or are ordered in such small quantities that you’re competing with the hotsy-totsy-teenagers to get ‘em.

all in all, don’t whine about discrimination just because you don’t see a lot of bigger girls on the runway or in advertisements.  they still have far more than enough clothing to choose from. 

p.s.  those aren’t pants in the pic, those are tights/leggings.  they stretch.  they don’t *really* make fitted pants that small, trust me.

The assumption that skinny = unhealthy might be unwarranted or insulting in a vacuum, but this post and this subject do not exist in a vacuum. The elephant in your showroom that you are sidestepping, whether
blithely or intentionally, is that, while people of all sizes are discriminated against in various ways, the fashion and clothing industries have a long history of specifically discriminating against heavy people and propagating harmful body-images to woman
and girls.

Given that history, pointing out what appears to be another example in an established pattern of negative behavior is legitimate. Whether you agree with his implications or not, they are in no way “continuing to fuel discrimination.”

Have you been online? Like, ever? Or have you ever left the house, beyond going to work at the Gap? I’m fully sympathetic to thin folks who get abuse for their figures, but it is appallingly disingenuous for you to suggest that fat people (or even people whose bodies deviate even slightly from the beauty standard’s norm) “never in a million years” would experience such vitriol, online or in the real world.  It happens every day! Why do you think the diet industry exists? Why is it that fat people so often want to lose weight, regardless of their health?

Please, you can defend people of all shapes and sizes (from the very thin to the hugely fat, as we all deserve) without resorting to straw fat people and bizarre claims that fat folks are never subjected to harassment or abuse for the way they look.

I strongly urge you to educate yourself and think about your own assumptions.

The “Always Skinny” line is intended for thin people. GAP doesn’t imply this as average size.
Every girl I have personally seen purchase one of these items doesnt look sick, emaciated or remotely unhealthy. Adult Petit women (including myself) who shop at GAP often have to meander on over to the Kids section to find pants and outerwear that fit properly. Although I am normally a size 00/24 everywhere else, the jeans are generally designed to run a bit big. I for one am very thankful that this line has given me a chance to shop alongside other women of my age.

As a long time reader, I must express my EXTREME disappointment in this blog post.
Not only is this topic not up to par with BoingBoing norms, I also found it to be tasteless.
Imagine (you are overweight) and come across a post on a favorite blog of yours mocking a mannequin shaped much like yourself filled with quotes like”cholesterol chic” “fat-pride” and “flabby fashion forward”? You continue on to read comments on how revolting your form is, or how inappropriate it is that fashion would even cater to people of your size..
Never in a million years would that situation happen!  But a very similar one just did.

Discrimination against the thin is a real thing. In some ways, I imagine it to just as bad as the discrimination overweight people face. Both thin and overweight women have difficulty shopping as well as face criticism the media.I’d give anything to be a larger size but this is who I am. It saddens me to think that so many readers are ignorant to the fact that plenty of women are thin enough to need specially designed clothes..
So here is a sarcastic Thank You to Corey Doctorow for continuing to fuel discrimination many feel. As a prominent writer on this blog, I suggest you use a little more discretion in choosing your post topics..Conversations you have with your wife ( who most likely shares your similar views) might not always be suitable for such a large and different audience. You are in a position to make great statements that many eyes will see! I’d like to see less posts aimed towards ridicule of a perfectly healthy figure, and more about.. Well, anything else.

Seriously folks, we all have some food issues on this planet, no? Life is short and difficult. How about we practice a little compassion for all of us, starting with ourselves? Avoid the scale today, whether you’re fat or skinny, and send a prayer to Africa. Or go to Heiffer International and buy a cow, instead of having one.

Quote: “When asked if he thought they might use a J.Lo, with its 39-inch
posterior, Andrew Corson, the men’s merchant at a Gap in downtown D.C.,
says, ‘Oh my! I don’t think our clothes would fit that.’”

Here’s where you can find one for yourself.

Mannequins! Creepy!

Since when is “skinny” a good thing? Thin is fine, skinny == bony and unattractive. Skinny is beyond thin to unhealthy.

How about we agree that people get to have whatever body their habits and health grant them, but that it’s a bit odd to have mannequins that represent 1% of 1% of the population?

5’9″, 114 lbs.  deal with it.  my mother weighed even less when she married my father.  my brother works out like a madman because of his insecurities about his thinness.  it’s NATURAL for some people.  not the majority, certainly, but some.

“anorexic,” “ethiopian,” “death camp victim,” it’s all pretty insulting — as is the whole “real women have curves” marketing movement, which implies that those of us who do not possess enough body fat to have secondary sex characteristics of a certain size do not qualify as female, or even human.  the idea that people seem to feel free to make public commentary on thin peoples’ bodies has already been touched upon; that stinks, too.

besides, i don’t see any criticism over the oversized mannequins at plus stores.