Comments on: Treating mental illness with cigarettes http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Fri, 24 May 2013 02:02:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: John Hubanks http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1205297 John Hubanks Fri, 02 Sep 2011 20:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1205297 Well, at the risk of over-exposing myself, I can tell you that those of us who struggle with Bipolar 1 can experience dissociative incidents resembling those of schizophrenics and, as a result, end up taking many of the same medications. My experiences at both mood extremes are disparate for obvious reasons, but on the highest end of mania the overwhelming sensory perceptions are, quite literally, maddening. Fortunately, I haven't faced that situation for some time, but when I have in the past I found myself smoking each and every time and, often, without remembering when I picked it up again. I can't speak to what drives me to the habit, but there's clearly something about it that benefits me at those times. The side effects are worrisome, however, as are those of the accepted treatments. I've also taken pretty much every atypical antipsychotic at some point or another but most recently Geodon and, subsequently, Abilify at their maximum doses for over two years altogether. As it turns out, I shouldn't have been taking those medications because the issue they were meant to address was not, in the end, what it appeared to be at first. Still, here I sit a little less than a year after having been weaned off the last one, and I weigh 60 pounds more than I did at the start (one of those notorious diabetes-like side effects). As a result of the sedative effects of those medications, I was not particularly motivated to do anything, as you might expect what with the sedation and all. I not only gained weight but atrophied over that period which lead to an injury when I began to try to get back into shape last fall (honestly, due to my own failure to grasp my condition as much as anything else). I'm only now beginning to get active once again. My injury has not entirely healed, but I have to start sometime. Hopefully, I've learned to be more careful in the interim. I offer that litany of complaints only to point out that I'm unsure whether or not I would be worse off had I smoked during that period rather than submit to the medication regimin offered. Certainly, my wife would not have appreciated the many issues that accompany living with a smoker so that must be taken into account, and I would have faced side effects from the tobacco as surely as I now do. But I honestly cannot say that an increased risk of respiratory disorders and heart disease (as serious as those ailments are) would have been worse than the all-but-guaranteed weight gain and metabolic issues since both affect the heart and, in the case of metabolic issues, also the pancreas. To employ a cliche, it truly is a Sophie's choice. Well, at the risk of over-exposing myself, I can tell you that those of us who struggle with Bipolar 1 can experience dissociative incidents resembling those of schizophrenics and, as a result, end up taking many of the same medications. My experiences at both mood extremes are disparate for obvious reasons, but on the highest end of mania the overwhelming sensory perceptions are, quite literally, maddening. Fortunately, I haven’t faced that situation for some time, but when I have in the past I found myself smoking each and every time and, often, without remembering when I picked it up again. I can’t speak to what drives me to the habit, but there’s clearly something about it that benefits me at those times. The side effects are worrisome, however, as are those of the accepted treatments. I’ve also taken pretty much every atypical antipsychotic at some point or another but most recently Geodon and, subsequently, Abilify at their maximum doses for over two years altogether. As it turns out, I shouldn’t have been taking those medications because the issue they were meant to address was not, in the end, what it appeared to be at first. Still, here I sit a little less than a year after having been weaned off the last one, and I weigh 60 pounds more than I did at the start (one of those notorious diabetes-like side effects). As a result of the sedative effects of those medications, I was not particularly motivated to do anything, as you might expect what with the sedation and all. I not only gained weight but atrophied over that period which lead to an injury when I began to try to get back into shape last fall (honestly, due to my own failure to grasp my condition as much as anything else). I’m only now beginning to get active once again. My injury has not entirely healed, but I have to start sometime. Hopefully, I’ve learned to be more careful in the interim.

I offer that litany of complaints only to point out that I’m unsure whether or not I would be worse off had I smoked during that period rather than submit to the medication regimin offered. Certainly, my wife would not have appreciated the many issues that accompany living with a smoker so that must be taken into account, and I would have faced side effects from the tobacco as surely as I now do. But I honestly cannot say that an increased risk of respiratory disorders and heart disease (as serious as those ailments are) would have been worse than the all-but-guaranteed weight gain and metabolic issues since both affect the heart and, in the case of metabolic issues, also the pancreas. To employ a cliche, it truly is a Sophie’s choice.

]]> By: Barbara Wagner http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1204920 Barbara Wagner Thu, 01 Sep 2011 22:22:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1204920 This post ignores the fact that the massive social stigma faced by people with schizophrenia is a huge factor as well - many people/their parents/spouses/friends don't want to, or can't face the possibility that they might have the kind of illness most commonly known from crime shows (where of course the person with schizophrenia is the serial killer everyone's trying to catch) and so they won't (or aren't allowed to, or are discouraged from seeking professional help.) It's the same with biopolar disorder - a lot of people, if they know you have it, either think that it means that you're going to kill them in their sleep, or that you're irredeemably crazy and so they can do whatever they like to you and use your illness as an excuse. Small wonder people self-medicate. This post ignores the fact that the massive social stigma faced by people with schizophrenia is a huge factor as well – many people/their parents/spouses/friends don’t want to, or can’t face the possibility that they might have the kind of illness most commonly known from crime shows (where of course the person with schizophrenia is the serial killer everyone’s trying to catch) and so they won’t (or aren’t allowed to, or are discouraged from seeking professional help.)

It’s the same with biopolar disorder – a lot of people, if they know you have it, either think that it means that you’re going to kill them in their sleep, or that you’re irredeemably crazy and so they can do whatever they like to you and use your illness as an excuse.

Small wonder people self-medicate.

]]> By: KateZeGreat http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1204400 KateZeGreat Thu, 01 Sep 2011 15:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1204400 Isolate the active compounds that help with mental illness and put those active compounds in a pill/patch/water-inhaler... Isolate the active compounds that help with mental illness and put those active compounds in a pill/patch/water-inhaler…

]]> By: Andrew Janssen http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1204058 Andrew Janssen Thu, 01 Sep 2011 06:54:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1204058 I don't disagree that we need to increase our investment in researching new treatments for schizophrenia; my point is that the difficulty of developing drugs makes going to the moon look easy. In the Pipeline, Lowe's blog was up as of 1:52 a.m. CDT on 9/1/11. Beyond the entries on drug discovery, I recommend the entries tagged 'Things I Won't Work With'. I don’t disagree that we need to increase our investment in researching new treatments for schizophrenia; my point is that the difficulty of developing drugs makes going to the moon look easy.

In the Pipeline, Lowe’s blog was up as of 1:52 a.m. CDT on 9/1/11. Beyond the entries on drug discovery, I recommend the entries tagged ‘Things I Won’t Work With’.

]]> By: Daniel Bessonov http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1204022 Daniel Bessonov Thu, 01 Sep 2011 05:50:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1204022 Say "people with schizophrenia", not "schizophrenics". The person is not characterized by his/her mental illness. Saying "schizophrenics" is as offensive as racism. Say “people with schizophrenia”, not “schizophrenics”. The person is not characterized by his/her mental illness. Saying “schizophrenics” is as offensive as racism.

]]> By: social_maladroit http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1203947 social_maladroit Thu, 01 Sep 2011 04:22:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1203947 God, just reading this made me want a cigarette. I'm not schizophrenic, but I will cop to having SAD and OCD. I loved <i>everything</i> about smoking, except the cost and the knowledge that it stood a very good chance of giving me cancer, like my grandmother had. (That was an ugly death. Near the end, the act of simply moving her from a gurney to a hospital bed broke both her legs.) So I quit 2-1/2 years ago. But, as @boingboing-0ae444bcc39cbfb377925f6dfa5826af:disqus wrote above, cigarettes were useful for waking up in the morning and relaxing before going to sleep. In between, they allowed me to temporarily get away from the cacophony of life, and helped me concentrate, among other things. The idea that they're used for self-medication is no surprise. I once knew a schizophrenic guy who smoked like a chimney.   One of my pet peeves is the way society likes to pile taxes on cigarettes. Does my state need more money in its coffers? Ramp up the cigarette tax. Does the nation want to offer expanded health benefits to needy children? Ramp up the cigarette tax. Hey, it cuts down on cigarette use, and that's a good thing, right? Well, dumping a higher tax burden on a small group of people you feel morally superior to is taking the easy way out. If you want higher tax revenue, everyone should pay for it, not just those evil smokers. God, just reading this made me want a cigarette.

I’m not schizophrenic, but I will cop to having SAD and OCD. I loved everything about smoking, except the cost and the knowledge that it stood a very good chance of giving me cancer, like my grandmother had. (That was an ugly death. Near the end, the act of simply moving her from a gurney to a hospital bed broke both her legs.) So I quit 2-1/2 years ago.

But, as @boingboing-0ae444bcc39cbfb377925f6dfa5826af:disqus wrote above, cigarettes were useful for waking up in the morning and relaxing before going to sleep. In between, they allowed me to temporarily get away from the cacophony of life, and helped me concentrate, among other things. The idea that they’re used for self-medication is no surprise. I once knew a schizophrenic guy who smoked like a chimney.
 
One of my pet peeves is the way society likes to pile taxes on cigarettes. Does my state need more money in its coffers? Ramp up the cigarette tax. Does the nation want to offer expanded health benefits to needy children? Ramp up the cigarette tax. Hey, it cuts down on cigarette use, and that’s a good thing, right? Well, dumping a higher tax burden on a small group of people you feel morally superior to is taking the easy way out. If you want higher tax revenue, everyone should pay for it, not just those evil smokers.

]]> By: theCanuck http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1203818 theCanuck Thu, 01 Sep 2011 02:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1203818 There's at least 10 different isoforms that have been described to date in nature, not all of which occur in humans.  All bind nicotine, or naturally, the neurotransmitter acetylcholine.  Most importantly, a nicotine receptor controls muscle movement throughout the human body, as well as other organisms.  There are also two distinct isoforms found at higher levels in the human brain than anywhere else in the body.  Of the two isoforms in the brain, polymorphisms in one particular isoform (the alpha 7 receptor) are very suspect in Schizophrenia.  Overall, these nicotinic receptors and their underlying neural network function to regulate brain activity, particularly learning, memory and attention.  One of the activities regulated by the alpha 7 receptor is thought to be auditory gating, it's possible that a deficiency caused by polymorphisms in the alpha 7 receptor could disrupt one's ability to differentiate between incoming sounds.  (This could perhaps lead to auditory hallucinations.)  The current hypothesis suggests that individuals suffering from Schizophrenia are smoking, HEAVILY, as a means to make up for the reduced function of their brain's nicotine receptors.  However, I imagine that there has to be a safer alternative to nicotine out there, although as this is all relatively new science, I think that current approved therapeutics don't even consider the underlying physiological factors that have a role in the disorder. There’s at least 10 different isoforms that have been described to date in nature, not all of which occur in humans.  All bind nicotine, or naturally, the neurotransmitter acetylcholine.  Most importantly, a nicotine receptor controls muscle movement throughout the human body, as well as other organisms.  There are also two distinct isoforms found at higher levels in the human brain than anywhere else in the body.  Of the two isoforms in the brain, polymorphisms in one particular isoform (the alpha 7 receptor) are very suspect in Schizophrenia.  Overall, these nicotinic receptors and their underlying neural network function to regulate brain activity, particularly learning, memory and attention.  One of the activities regulated by the alpha 7 receptor is thought to be auditory gating, it’s possible that a deficiency caused by polymorphisms in the alpha 7 receptor could disrupt one’s ability to differentiate between incoming sounds.  (This could perhaps lead to auditory hallucinations.)  The current hypothesis suggests that individuals suffering from Schizophrenia are smoking, HEAVILY, as a means to make up for the reduced function of their brain’s nicotine receptors.  However, I imagine that there has to be a safer alternative to nicotine out there, although as this is all relatively new science, I think that current approved therapeutics don’t even consider the underlying physiological factors that have a role in the disorder.

]]> By: querent http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1203668 querent Wed, 31 Aug 2011 23:51:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1203668 thanks man.  good to hear you're doing well.  fuck off time is invaluable. thanks man.  good to hear you’re doing well.  fuck off time is invaluable.

]]> By: SCAQTony http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1203095 SCAQTony Wed, 31 Aug 2011 17:03:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1203095 It's a dandy and worthwhile observation. Obviously there may be a benign drug within the cigarette that is useful and perhaps that benign drug is the same anti-anti-inflammatory that protects a smokers' joints from getting arthritis. Hence, locating and/or "amping-up" that specific chemical would be the best alternative but till theninflammatory It’s a dandy and worthwhile observation. Obviously there may be a benign drug within the cigarette that is useful and perhaps that benign drug is the same anti-anti-inflammatory that protects a smokers’ joints from getting arthritis. Hence, locating and/or “amping-up” that specific chemical would be the best alternative but till theninflammatory

]]> By: brian12 http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1203054 brian12 Wed, 31 Aug 2011 16:37:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1203054 querent Thanks for your input. I quit being a patient almost 40 years ago, quit smoking 27 years ago, and haven't had a real hangover in 20 years. The thing I sought in tobacco and alcohol was to reduce, temporarily, the avenues that thinking could go down. Painters say they are overawed by a white canvas and writers say they hate an open brief, I suppose this is similar. I started to thrive in this world once I had atained sufficient value to my employers, and my friends, that I had fuck-off privileges; I could establish reasonable boundaries in time and space about what I would or wouldn't do. High level maths sounds like as good a ticket as any. and peace be with you querent
Thanks for your input. I quit being a patient almost 40 years ago, quit smoking 27 years ago, and haven’t had a real hangover in 20 years. The thing I sought in tobacco and alcohol was to reduce, temporarily, the avenues that thinking could go down. Painters say they are overawed by a white canvas and writers say they hate an open brief, I suppose this is similar.
I started to thrive in this world once I had atained sufficient value to my employers, and my friends, that I had fuck-off privileges; I could establish reasonable boundaries in time and space about what I would or wouldn’t do. High level maths sounds like as good a ticket as any.
and peace be with you

]]> By: Maurice Reeves http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1203025 Maurice Reeves Wed, 31 Aug 2011 16:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1203025 Nicotine has wide-ranging effects across the entire brain.  I don't routinely smoke or use tobacco in any form but when I was diagnosed with epilepsy I researched different natural or homeopathic ways to regulate the seizures and I came across a double-blind study which showed epileptics had less seizures when on a nicotine patch then when not: http://www.cnsforum.com/commenteditem/3c5dccdc-27fb-4b80-9516-ab81e3e4ea6c/default.aspx Nicotine has wide-ranging effects across the entire brain.  I don’t routinely smoke or use tobacco in any form but when I was diagnosed with epilepsy I researched different natural or homeopathic ways to regulate the seizures and I came across a double-blind study which showed epileptics had less seizures when on a nicotine patch then when not: http://www.cnsforum.com/commenteditem/3c5dccdc-27fb-4b80-9516-ab81e3e4ea6c/default.aspx

]]> By: Guest http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1203013 Guest Wed, 31 Aug 2011 16:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1203013 "If you've never been sick, you cannot be a healer." WORD “If you’ve never been sick, you cannot be a healer.”

WORD

]]> By: querent http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1203008 querent Wed, 31 Aug 2011 16:06:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1203008 http://www.amazon.com/Pharmako-Poeia-Revised-Updated-Herbcraft/dp/1556438052/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314806733&sr=8-1 required reading for any would-be practitioner of the shamanic arts. he dwells with equal ease in the mytho-poetic realm and the scientific-empirical realm. and he's my favorite living poet. http://www.amazon.com/Pharmako-Poeia-Revised-Updated-Herbcraft/dp/1556438052/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314806733&sr=8-1

required reading for any would-be practitioner of the shamanic arts. he dwells with equal ease in the mytho-poetic realm and the scientific-empirical realm. and he’s my favorite living poet.

]]> By: querent http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1202973 querent Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:37:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1202973 Interesting point. I was diagnosed as having "mild psychotic tendencies, with leanings towards paranoia," and I lied through my fucking teeth to that shrink.  I just wanted to try paxil, but he put me on risperdol (sp?), too.  Had I told the full truth, god knows what he would have done. What most would consider auditory hallucinations are near constant for me.  And the inability to exercise selective attention.  Everything characteristic of schizophrenia, except the "disorganized thinking," or however it's described.  I'm actually a math grad student, and am quite good at it (with all due modesty).  The math is easy.  The hard part is showing up every day and existing in a crowd.  LOTS of anxiety (and insecurity) and a tendency to depression, too. I'm off all the psych drugs now, but I did have a fairly serious problem self medicating with alcohol, and would almost relish the hangovers sometimes.  Somehow the rawness of them, the overt, tangible pain, was preferable to the voices (usually hyper-critical female voices...my mom was a junkie and cut out when I was 6 months old). I have a loving partner (and she's HAWT!) and I've been holding down this grad school gig for 2 years now (never held down a job that long before, and I'm 30).  I'm not as bad as some, but I can see it from here. Tobacco has always been an on and off affair for me.  I pick it up and put it down again once every two months or so.  To quote Dale Pendell, "Nicotiana is the Hammer."  To paraphrase him, it pushes it all back a bit, gives you some breathing room and time to regroup.  But I try to stay in good physical shape too, and that is incompatible with tobacco use (or cigarette smoking, I guess). I don't really have anything terribly productive to say here, but felt like airing this a bit. I am deadly serious when I say that you cannot judge another's pain, or chastise them for the way in which they deal.  If you've never been sick, you cannot be a healer. peace. Interesting point.

I was diagnosed as having “mild psychotic tendencies, with leanings towards paranoia,” and I lied through my fucking teeth to that shrink.  I just wanted to try paxil, but he put me on risperdol (sp?), too.  Had I told the full truth, god knows what he would have done.

What most would consider auditory hallucinations are near constant for me.  And the inability to exercise selective attention.  Everything characteristic of schizophrenia, except the “disorganized thinking,” or however it’s described.  I’m actually a math grad student, and am quite good at it (with all due modesty).  The math is easy.  The hard part is showing up every day and existing in a crowd.  LOTS of anxiety (and insecurity) and a tendency to depression, too.

I’m off all the psych drugs now, but I did have a fairly serious problem self medicating with alcohol, and would almost relish the hangovers sometimes.  Somehow the rawness of them, the overt, tangible pain, was preferable to the voices (usually hyper-critical female voices…my mom was a junkie and cut out when I was 6 months old).

I have a loving partner (and she’s HAWT!) and I’ve been holding down this grad school gig for 2 years now (never held down a job that long before, and I’m 30).  I’m not as bad as some, but I can see it from here.

Tobacco has always been an on and off affair for me.  I pick it up and put it down again once every two months or so.  To quote Dale Pendell, “Nicotiana is the Hammer.”  To paraphrase him, it pushes it all back a bit, gives you some breathing room and time to regroup.  But I try to stay in good physical shape too, and that is incompatible with tobacco use (or cigarette smoking, I guess).

I don’t really have anything terribly productive to say here, but felt like airing this a bit.

I am deadly serious when I say that you cannot judge another’s pain, or chastise them for the way in which they deal.  If you’ve never been sick, you cannot be a healer.

peace.

]]> By: bwcbwc http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1202955 bwcbwc Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1202955 Seems like lung disease and cancer are pretty big side-effects to be taken into consideration, too. But the temporal factor always skews human perception of risk: why deal with a side effect now, when I can deal with a different side-effect later, or maybe get lucky? Seems like lung disease and cancer are pretty big side-effects to be taken into consideration, too. But the temporal factor always skews human perception of risk: why deal with a side effect now, when I can deal with a different side-effect later, or maybe get lucky?

]]> By: donovan acree http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1202954 donovan acree Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1202954 I'm guessing it's the MAOI in tobacco smoke and not the nicotine http://biopsychiatry.com/maoi-smoke.htm I’m guessing it’s the MAOI in tobacco smoke and not the nicotine http://biopsychiatry.com/maoi-smoke.htm

]]> By: brian12 http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1202950 brian12 Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:13:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1202950 What ever it was that effected me many years ago, diagnosed at some point as schizoid, was more effectively treated with nicotine than the meds I was prescribed. There's another self-med that I have never seen discussed, which is the similarity in effect of alcohol induced hangover to electro-convulsive therapy in alleviating anxious depression.   What ever it was that effected me many years ago, diagnosed at some point as schizoid, was more effectively treated with nicotine than the meds I was prescribed. There’s another self-med that I have never seen discussed, which is the similarity in effect of alcohol induced hangover to electro-convulsive therapy in alleviating anxious depression.  

]]> By: ShawShaw http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1202913 ShawShaw Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:29:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1202913 You hadn't killed the thread at all! I think the most valuable comments here are those recounting first-hand experiences like yours.   And I must say, I really love the term, "unwelcome as a fart in a spacesuit." Definitely filing that one away for later use. You hadn’t killed the thread at all! I think the most valuable comments here are those recounting first-hand experiences like yours.
 
And I must say, I really love the term, “unwelcome as a fart in a spacesuit.” Definitely filing that one away for later use.

]]> By: urbanspaceman http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1202815 urbanspaceman Wed, 31 Aug 2011 10:25:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1202815 What the Apollo program proved is that when American society *wants* to do something, it will. Think of the engineers who stretched 1960s technology until it screamed. Think of the literally billions of 1960s dollars spent. We did it for the sake of national prestige and strategic advantage among other things, in the midst of the Cold War. (Many inventions from the space program ended up being used by the military.) The image of schizophrenics aimlessly roaming our streets, often homeless and untreated is certainly damaging to our national prestige to say nothing of what these people are going through. We need an Apollo program for the development of new, more effective and less damaging  treatments for schizophrenia; most of the current treatment regimes have changed very little in over 50 years. (The blog which you referenced appears to be down as of this writing). What the Apollo program proved is that when American society *wants* to do something, it will. Think of the engineers who stretched 1960s technology until it screamed. Think of the literally billions of 1960s dollars spent. We did it for the sake of national prestige and strategic advantage among other things, in the midst of the Cold War. (Many inventions from the space program ended up being used by the military.)

The image of schizophrenics aimlessly roaming our streets, often homeless and untreated is certainly damaging to our national prestige to say nothing of what these people are going through. We need an Apollo program for the development of new, more effective and less damaging  treatments for schizophrenia; most of the current treatment regimes have changed very little in over 50 years.

(The blog which you referenced appears to be down as of this writing).

]]> By: Matthew Gilmore http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1202814 Matthew Gilmore Wed, 31 Aug 2011 10:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1202814 On an interesting tangent, in Peru Ayahuasqueros (shamans) may smoke a jungle grown tobacco when treating patients because, "the bad spirits can't stand the smell," which was told on a trip down there a few years ago. On an interesting tangent, in Peru Ayahuasqueros (shamans) may smoke a jungle grown tobacco when treating patients because, “the bad spirits can’t stand the smell,” which was told on a trip down there a few years ago.

]]> By: jonw http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1202742 jonw Wed, 31 Aug 2011 06:26:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1202742 cigarettes may be bad, but cigarettes ≠ tobacco smoke a pipe, get the best of both worlds cigarettes may be bad, but cigarettes ≠ tobacco
smoke a pipe, get the best of both worlds

]]> By: Tom Sheft http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1202692 Tom Sheft Wed, 31 Aug 2011 04:32:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1202692 Nicotine patches? Nicotine patches?

]]> By: bagelboy http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1202684 bagelboy Wed, 31 Aug 2011 04:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1202684 I worked for a few years transporting patients to a daily outpatient mental facility, and I had a few patients who, in addition to their battery of daily meds, were encouraged to smoke. I was nearly outraged when I was told this, but it was then explained that, instead of mega-doses of meds, the nicotine served to aid in curbing nervousness, anxiety, and trepidation in some patients. So I can see the good in helping to not over-medicate. However there is still that little problem concerning cancer, emphysema, and the multitude of other possible ailments associated with smoking. But I guess you take the good with the bad here. I worked for a few years transporting patients to a daily outpatient mental facility, and I had a few patients who, in addition to their battery of daily meds, were encouraged to smoke. I was nearly outraged when I was told this, but it was then explained that, instead of mega-doses of meds, the nicotine served to aid in curbing nervousness, anxiety, and trepidation in some patients. So I can see the good in helping to not over-medicate. However there is still that little problem concerning cancer, emphysema, and the multitude of other possible ailments associated with smoking. But I guess you take the good with the bad here.

]]> By: berkeley http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1202658 berkeley Wed, 31 Aug 2011 03:36:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1202658 I'm confused about when "big pharma" became more of a threat than big tobacco. I’m confused about when “big pharma” became more of a threat than big tobacco.

]]> By: funchy crunchy http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1202647 funchy crunchy Wed, 31 Aug 2011 03:22:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1202647 Schizophrenic people are far more likely to also drink and use recreational drugs.   Some people call it "self medicating", as if being drunk or stoned is a "medication".   Some schizophrenics use the drugs alone; some mix it with the prescription anti-psychotics or other psych meds.      I did a clinical rotation in a psych ward.   Before we make sweeping generalizations on the merits of what many schizophrenics do, understand that not all schizophrenics are the same.  Some do fight hallucinations (visual and/or auditory).    Others are delusional to the point of not being functional in society.   Some struggle to filter out environmental stimuli, especially from other people, to the point where it makes them agitated.     It's not unusual for a patient with a schizophrenic diagnosis to have other psych conditions (severe anxiety disorder, depression, etc).      Many schizophrenics live in the community and can have a reasonably normal life with psych support & medication.   Only a small % end up as bad as the schizophrenic portrayed on TV or movies: completely broken with reality, totally delusional -- the crazy homeless guy who goes on a murder spree because voices told him to. Science really doesn't understand yet what is wrong in the brains of schizophrenics.   All we know is they share similar traits and some psych drugs can control the symptoms (though we don't even know how).    To suggest they need to add another addiction to their list -- an addiction with a high risk for cancer, COPD/emphysema, and stroke -- seems counter productive  Schizophrenic people are far more likely to also drink and use recreational drugs.   Some people call it “self medicating”, as if being drunk or stoned is a “medication”.   Some schizophrenics use the drugs alone; some mix it with the prescription anti-psychotics or other psych meds.     

I did a clinical rotation in a psych ward.   Before we make sweeping generalizations on the merits of what many schizophrenics do, understand that not all schizophrenics are the same.  Some do fight hallucinations (visual and/or auditory).    Others are delusional to the point of not being functional in society.   Some struggle to filter out environmental stimuli, especially from other people, to the point where it makes them agitated.     It’s not unusual for a patient with a schizophrenic diagnosis to have other psych conditions (severe anxiety disorder, depression, etc).      Many schizophrenics live in the community and can have a reasonably normal life with psych support & medication.   Only a small % end up as bad as the schizophrenic portrayed on TV or movies: completely broken with reality, totally delusional — the crazy homeless guy who goes on a murder spree because voices told him to.

Science really doesn’t understand yet what is wrong in the brains of schizophrenics.   All we know is they share similar traits and some psych drugs can control the symptoms (though we don’t even know how).    To suggest they need to add another addiction to their list — an addiction with a high risk for cancer, COPD/emphysema, and stroke — seems counter productive 

]]> By: Amelia_G http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1202639 Amelia_G Wed, 31 Aug 2011 03:17:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1202639 When my brilliant kindergarten friend developed schizophrenia 20 years ago, the doctors said on the official meds available his liver and/or kidneys would fail in 20 years. He's done an amazing balancing act since then. In the local documentary (http://vimeo.com/10511236) he's smoking obsessively. He's had ups and downs but managed to edit together some truths in the 20 years big pharma gave him. When my brilliant kindergarten friend developed schizophrenia 20 years ago, the doctors said on the official meds available his liver and/or kidneys would fail in 20 years. He’s done an amazing balancing act since then. In the local documentary (http://vimeo.com/10511236) he’s smoking obsessively. He’s had ups and downs but managed to edit together some truths in the 20 years big pharma gave him.

]]> By: Andrew Janssen http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1202625 Andrew Janssen Wed, 31 Aug 2011 02:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1202625 You say, "there is no reason for neuroleptics to be as marginally effective and as dangerous as they are." In fact, there are several good reasons why neuroleptics are marginally effective and dangerous. First, we don't completely understand what's going wrong in the brains of schizophrenics, so we can't make drugs which precisely target the problem. Second, drug development, especially of brain drugs, is non-trivially hard. Derek Lowe's blog, In the Pipeline (http://pipeline.corante.com/) is a good place to start looking for more information. Comparing the difficulty of going to the moon to the difficulty of making a neuroleptic that doesn't cause TD or diabetes is like comparing apples to orangutans. You say, “there is no reason for neuroleptics to be as marginally effective and as dangerous as they are.” In fact, there are several good reasons why neuroleptics are marginally effective and dangerous. First, we don’t completely understand what’s going wrong in the brains of schizophrenics, so we can’t make drugs which precisely target the problem. Second, drug development, especially of brain drugs, is non-trivially hard. Derek Lowe’s blog, In the Pipeline (http://pipeline.corante.com/) is a good place to start looking for more information. Comparing the difficulty of going to the moon to the difficulty of making a neuroleptic that doesn’t cause TD or diabetes is like comparing apples to orangutans.

]]> By: Marshall Astor http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1202623 Marshall Astor Wed, 31 Aug 2011 02:38:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1202623 One of my dearest friends and co-workers was a heavy smoker with a serious history of mental illness who was on SSI.  She smoked heavily (and drank coffee around the clock) until she died of throat and lung cancer a few years back. I'm not sure whatever other meds she was on, but those cigarettes are the only reason she didn't spend the last 25 years of her live in a totally institutionalized, catatonic state.  Even though I knew they were killing her, they were also the only thing that gave her anything close to a normal life.  When she was dying, there was never a moment when I wished she hadn't smoked the cigarettes that gave her cancer. One of my dearest friends and co-workers was a heavy smoker with a serious history of mental illness who was on SSI.  She smoked heavily (and drank coffee around the clock) until she died of throat and lung cancer a few years back.

I’m not sure whatever other meds she was on, but those cigarettes are the only reason she didn’t spend the last 25 years of her live in a totally institutionalized, catatonic state.  Even though I knew they were killing her, they were also the only thing that gave her anything close to a normal life.  When she was dying, there was never a moment when I wished she hadn’t smoked the cigarettes that gave her cancer.

]]> By: Maryn McKenna http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1202617 Maryn McKenna Wed, 31 Aug 2011 02:25:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1202617 One of those random observations that cops make and pass on to reporters: Given the decline in smoking in the general population, If you see a large group of people smoking outside a building — especially a non-business building, e.g. a church — it is almost certainly an AA meeting. One of those random observations that cops make and pass on to reporters: Given the decline in smoking in the general population, If you see a large group of people smoking outside a building — especially a non-business building, e.g. a church — it is almost certainly an AA meeting.

]]> By: MrEricSir http://boingboing.net/2011/08/30/treating-mental-illness-with-cigarettes.html#comment-1202606 MrEricSir Wed, 31 Aug 2011 01:51:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=115986#comment-1202606 Here in the Mission District of San Francisco, there's a schizophrenic guy who most of the day  feeding pigeons -- but when he's not doing that, he's always smoking. Here in the Mission District of San Francisco, there’s a schizophrenic guy who most of the day  feeding pigeons — but when he’s not doing that, he’s always smoking.

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