Comments on: Oakland PD told a judge it wouldn't use projectile weapons any more http://boingboing.net/2011/10/31/oakland-pd-told-a-judge-it-wouldnt-use-projectile-weapons-any-more.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sat, 25 May 2013 19:50:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Brainspore http://boingboing.net/2011/10/31/oakland-pd-told-a-judge-it-wouldnt-use-projectile-weapons-any-more.html#comment-1259569 Brainspore Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:54:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=126923#comment-1259569 <blockquote>Obviously it isn't unreasonably hard to deliberately aim for a person with that projectile, but the flight path is indirect enough that it's easy to convince people it was accidental.</blockquote>Official guidelines specifically prohibit firing the canisters into an area where they would be likely to hit <em>anyone</em> since serious injury is a probable and predictable consequence of doing so. If they fired into a crowd then it's irrelevant whether or not they were aiming for a specific person.

Obviously it isn’t unreasonably hard to deliberately aim for a person with that projectile, but the flight path is indirect enough that it’s easy to convince people it was accidental.

Official guidelines specifically prohibit firing the canisters into an area where they would be likely to hit anyone since serious injury is a probable and predictable consequence of doing so. If they fired into a crowd then it’s irrelevant whether or not they were aiming for a specific person.

]]> By: AirPillo http://boingboing.net/2011/10/31/oakland-pd-told-a-judge-it-wouldnt-use-projectile-weapons-any-more.html#comment-1259282 AirPillo Tue, 01 Nov 2011 12:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=126923#comment-1259282 Unfortunately since some of those are actually fired from relatively indirect trajectory launchers, they're always going to have a- enough force behind them to seriously injure someone, and b- plausible deniability for actually targeting that body part. "No, we weren't aiming for that guy's face, that's just where it struck. I feel awful about breaking his skull, honest." Obviously it isn't unreasonably hard to deliberately aim for a person with that projectile, but the flight path is indirect enough that it's easy to convince people it was accidental. tl;dr- with "non-lethal" weaponry, police can get away with murder. Unfortunately since some of those are actually fired from relatively indirect trajectory launchers, they’re always going to have a- enough force behind them to seriously injure someone, and b- plausible deniability for actually targeting that body part. “No, we weren’t aiming for that guy’s face, that’s just where it struck. I feel awful about breaking his skull, honest.”

Obviously it isn’t unreasonably hard to deliberately aim for a person with that projectile, but the flight path is indirect enough that it’s easy to convince people it was accidental.

tl;dr- with “non-lethal” weaponry, police can get away with murder.

]]> By: Cowicide http://boingboing.net/2011/10/31/oakland-pd-told-a-judge-it-wouldnt-use-projectile-weapons-any-more.html#comment-1259230 Cowicide Tue, 01 Nov 2011 08:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=126923#comment-1259230 Also some very good news in this regard: <b><a href="http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/10/officials-increasingly-refusing-unlawful-orders-to-arrest-occupy-protesters.html" rel="nofollow">Officials Increasingly Refusing Unlawful Orders to Arrest “Occupy” Protesters</a></b> Also some very good news in this regard:

Officials Increasingly Refusing Unlawful Orders to Arrest “Occupy” Protesters

]]> By: That_Anonymous_Coward http://boingboing.net/2011/10/31/oakland-pd-told-a-judge-it-wouldnt-use-projectile-weapons-any-more.html#comment-1258982 That_Anonymous_Coward Mon, 31 Oct 2011 23:06:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=126923#comment-1258982 several were wearing masks so you can not be sure. picking on the poor defenseless dyslexic... hurmph. several were wearing masks so you can not be sure.
picking on the poor defenseless dyslexic… hurmph.

]]> By: Brainspore http://boingboing.net/2011/10/31/oakland-pd-told-a-judge-it-wouldnt-use-projectile-weapons-any-more.html#comment-1258899 Brainspore Mon, 31 Oct 2011 21:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=126923#comment-1258899 <blockquote>Its not like 17 rouge police wannabe agencies showed up…</blockquote>They may not have been wearing rouge at the time but their faces sure are red now.

Its not like 17 rouge police wannabe agencies showed up…

They may not have been wearing rouge at the time but their faces sure are red now.

]]> By: mzed http://boingboing.net/2011/10/31/oakland-pd-told-a-judge-it-wouldnt-use-projectile-weapons-any-more.html#comment-1258792 mzed Mon, 31 Oct 2011 19:38:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=126923#comment-1258792 Here is a link to OPD's current policy: http://www.clearinghouse.net/chDocs/public/PN-CA-0018-0021.pdf Here is a link to OPD’s current policy:
http://www.clearinghouse.net/chDocs/public/PN-CA-0018-0021.pdf

]]> By: That_Anonymous_Coward http://boingboing.net/2011/10/31/oakland-pd-told-a-judge-it-wouldnt-use-projectile-weapons-any-more.html#comment-1258736 That_Anonymous_Coward Mon, 31 Oct 2011 18:41:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=126923#comment-1258736 They called them in and then did not supervise them. This is a complete failure in managing a situation that had a potential for going horribly wrong.  What happened was just short of the worst case scenario where the police managed to kill one or more protestors. The OPD saying its the fault of the other guy is just passing the buck, they came at the invitation of OPD.  Its not like 17 rouge police wannabe agencies showed up and said lets make this a complete clusterfuck. They called them in and then did not supervise them.
This is a complete failure in managing a situation that had a potential for going horribly wrong.  What happened was just short of the worst case scenario where the police managed to kill one or more protestors.
The OPD saying its the fault of the other guy is just passing the buck, they came at the invitation of OPD.  Its not like 17 rouge police wannabe agencies showed up and said lets make this a complete clusterfuck.

]]> By: Paul Renault http://boingboing.net/2011/10/31/oakland-pd-told-a-judge-it-wouldnt-use-projectile-weapons-any-more.html#comment-1258731 Paul Renault Mon, 31 Oct 2011 18:37:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=126923#comment-1258731 There's a certain obligation, whatever field you're in, to be 'up to speed' on a whole bunch of stuff which is germane to your profession.  It shows that your responsible, interested, and professional. A medical doctor who still believes that ulcers are caused by stress need to be taken to task.  A physicist who believes that Newton got all of it right, needs to be slapped up-side the head.  A computer technician who's installing RG-58 cabling for your network, needs to be fired on the spot. A police officer who doesn't pay attention to the law, isn't aware and doesn't make it a priority to be aware about important <b>local</b> legal decisions <i> that affect their job</i> shouldn't be allowed to handle weapons of any kind. It's inexcusable.  There's no other way to put it.  It's inexcusable. There’s a certain obligation, whatever field you’re in, to be ‘up to speed’ on a whole bunch of stuff which is germane to your profession.  It shows that your responsible, interested, and professional.

A medical doctor who still believes that ulcers are caused by stress need to be taken to task.  A physicist who believes that Newton got all of it right, needs to be slapped up-side the head.  A computer technician who’s installing RG-58 cabling for your network, needs to be fired on the spot.

A police officer who doesn’t pay attention to the law, isn’t aware and doesn’t make it a priority to be aware about important local legal decisions that affect their job shouldn’t be allowed to handle weapons of any kind.

It’s inexcusable.  There’s no other way to put it.  It’s inexcusable.

]]> By: Navin_Johnson http://boingboing.net/2011/10/31/oakland-pd-told-a-judge-it-wouldnt-use-projectile-weapons-any-more.html#comment-1258697 Navin_Johnson Mon, 31 Oct 2011 18:14:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=126923#comment-1258697 Right wing media/blogosphere is still trying to suggest that Olsen was hurt by a fellow protester......... Right wing media/blogosphere is still trying to suggest that Olsen was hurt by a fellow protester………

]]> By: Guest http://boingboing.net/2011/10/31/oakland-pd-told-a-judge-it-wouldnt-use-projectile-weapons-any-more.html#comment-1258677 Guest Mon, 31 Oct 2011 18:03:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=126923#comment-1258677 If there was a clear chain of command among professional officers, then no, not it does not explain any of the confusion. If there was not this clear chain of command in response to a weeks long civillian protest (hardly an emergency moment) then peoples jobs MUST be put on the line. The police need to remember that they are OUR brothers as well, NOT JUST EACH OTHERS. If there was a clear chain of command among professional officers, then no, not it does not explain any of the confusion.

If there was not this clear chain of command in response to a weeks long civillian protest (hardly an emergency moment) then peoples jobs MUST be put on the line.

The police need to remember that they are OUR brothers as well, NOT JUST EACH OTHERS.

]]> By: Into_anus http://boingboing.net/2011/10/31/oakland-pd-told-a-judge-it-wouldnt-use-projectile-weapons-any-more.html#comment-1258653 Into_anus Mon, 31 Oct 2011 17:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=126923#comment-1258653 Flashbang grenades don't seem to be in the list of things that they agreed not to use though. Flashbang grenades don’t seem to be in the list of things that they agreed not to use though.

]]> By: buenasolas http://boingboing.net/2011/10/31/oakland-pd-told-a-judge-it-wouldnt-use-projectile-weapons-any-more.html#comment-1258630 buenasolas Mon, 31 Oct 2011 17:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=126923#comment-1258630 My understanding  is that the problem stemmed from OPD calling in other local agencies for help. Maybe that is just their spin on it, but in many of the photos and video, you can visibly see the words sheriff on the officer's riot gear. I don't think this should get them off the hook, but it does explain some of the confusion. My understanding  is that the problem stemmed from OPD calling in other local agencies for help. Maybe that is just their spin on it, but in many of the photos and video, you can visibly see the words sheriff on the officer’s riot gear. I don’t think this should get them off the hook, but it does explain some of the confusion.

]]> By: OldBrownSquirrel http://boingboing.net/2011/10/31/oakland-pd-told-a-judge-it-wouldnt-use-projectile-weapons-any-more.html#comment-1258619 OldBrownSquirrel Mon, 31 Oct 2011 17:26:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=126923#comment-1258619 So the police aren't abiding by the terms of the agreement.  Is there any legal recourse? Are they trivially able to get around the agreement by bringing in out-of-town muscle that wasn't party to it? If the agreement is as toothless and loophole-addled as it appears, then it was never more than a facade. So the police aren’t abiding by the terms of the agreement.  Is there any legal recourse? Are they trivially able to get around the agreement by bringing in out-of-town muscle that wasn’t party to it? If the agreement is as toothless and loophole-addled as it appears, then it was never more than a facade.

]]> By: Guest http://boingboing.net/2011/10/31/oakland-pd-told-a-judge-it-wouldnt-use-projectile-weapons-any-more.html#comment-1258605 Guest Mon, 31 Oct 2011 17:19:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=126923#comment-1258605 Does this mean they ALL lose a weeks vacation? Does this mean they ALL lose a weeks vacation?

]]> By: l e http://boingboing.net/2011/10/31/oakland-pd-told-a-judge-it-wouldnt-use-projectile-weapons-any-more.html#comment-1258216 l e Mon, 31 Oct 2011 07:05:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=126923#comment-1258216 and tear gas canisters used as direct projectile weapons against someone rather then an area?, will they stop doing that? and tear gas canisters used as direct projectile weapons against someone rather then an area?, will they stop doing that?

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