Comments on: NYPD raze the #OWS library, throw out over 5,000 books http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sun, 19 May 2013 09:40:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: BrandiThorfinn http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1274820 BrandiThorfinn Sat, 19 Nov 2011 13:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1274820 The law doth punish man or woman That steals the goose from off the common, But lets the greater felon loose That steals the common from the goose. The law doth punish man or woman
That steals the goose from off the common,
But lets the greater felon loose
That steals the common from the goose.

]]> By: Sean Su http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1273417 Sean Su Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:38:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1273417 And the NYPD bit the bait. Sure it's political game play, but they were dumb enough to fall for it. The police are supposed to restore order. Books have only been dangerous to those in power. And the NYPD bit the bait. Sure it’s political game play, but they were dumb enough to fall for it. The police are supposed to restore order. Books have only been dangerous to those in power.

]]> By: Sean Su http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1273416 Sean Su Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:36:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1273416 "Lose", not "Loose". The votes are not physically precarious from falling apart, instead they are in danger of being lost. “Lose”, not “Loose”. The votes are not physically precarious from falling apart, instead they are in danger of being lost.

]]> By: wrecksdart http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1272811 wrecksdart Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1272811 Good question, nikkos.  Here's my attempt at an answer:  The purpose of the public library is an answer to Thomas Jefferson's thought that America needs to, "...educate and inform the whole mass of the people...They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty..."  What better way to address the inequality of wealth than by a judicious selection of reading material that will lay bare the facts at hand without posturing or censorship?  Or, to turn the thing on its head, what better way to control the populace than by controlling the sources of information that are publicly available?  Libraries need to be where the people are so that the information they procure can be freely and readily accessible by those same people.  The internet is wonderful, yes, but it's not available to everyone, nor does it make all information sources freely available.  You may find this library to be cutesy, but most librarians take their jobs very seriously, and I think this library is just another way to connect and inform the populace at large. Good question, nikkos.  Here’s my attempt at an answer:  The purpose of the public library is an answer to Thomas Jefferson’s thought that America needs to, “…educate and inform the whole mass of the people…They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty…”  What better way to address the inequality of wealth than by a judicious selection of reading material that will lay bare the facts at hand without posturing or censorship?  Or, to turn the thing on its head, what better way to control the populace than by controlling the sources of information that are publicly available?  Libraries need to be where the people are so that the information they procure can be freely and readily accessible by those same people.  The internet is wonderful, yes, but it’s not available to everyone, nor does it make all information sources freely available.  You may find this library to be cutesy, but most librarians take their jobs very seriously, and I think this library is just another way to connect and inform the populace at large.

]]> By: royspeed http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1272579 royspeed Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:39:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1272579 Can anyone say Fahrenheit 451? Can anyone say Fahrenheit 451?

]]> By: Clara http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1272180 Clara Thu, 17 Nov 2011 02:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1272180 Are you kidding?  The brain works in a different way in the act of reading printed material versus watching media on TV or reading media embedded with hyperlinks.  My parents often have no clue of what is happening in the world because their local TV news outfit covers only sensationalist local crime, oversimplified and brief statements on national events, and then 15 minutes of sports, weather, and something cute the local kindergartners did that day.  Most forms of media keep us uneducated, unfocused and just looking for the next hit/click/channel. It encourages us to not spend too much time thinking about one thing, and if we can't focus, we can't solve issues. Like I said, my parents are often grossly underinformed about the world around them, and left feeling powerless and afraid due to the things the news does cover. Books are the first step to the gaining knowledge and skills needed to think critically enough to be able to change the world.  Are you kidding?  The brain works in a different way in the act of reading printed material versus watching media on TV or reading media embedded with hyperlinks.  My parents often have no clue of what is happening in the world because their local TV news outfit covers only sensationalist local crime, oversimplified and brief statements on national events, and then 15 minutes of sports, weather, and something cute the local kindergartners did that day. 
Most forms of media keep us uneducated, unfocused and just looking for the next hit/click/channel. It encourages us to not spend too much time thinking about one thing, and if we can’t focus, we can’t solve issues. Like I said, my parents are often grossly underinformed about the world around them, and left feeling powerless and afraid due to the things the news does cover. Books are the first step to the gaining knowledge and skills needed to think critically enough to be able to change the world. 

]]> By: mattlove1 http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271566 mattlove1 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271566 NPR made a terrible mistake on the Diane Rehm show today - instead of talking about OWS, they actually allowed a couple of people from the movement to go on the show and talk. Wow, what a breath of fresh air, their idealism, their ideas (the trouble is when you actually let people speak, you can't lie and say they have nothing to say) - it was quite wonderful. They had the usual talkabouters to - one guy sniffed that they'll never get anywhere if they aren't willing to vote for a Republican once in a while. What a silly loser, he sounded like he had a stick up his ass.  This isn't a movement that's failed, its a movement thats just getting started.  Here's a nice rebuttal to the idea that dumping books is no big deal:  http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/11/16/the-book-dumpers/ NPR made a terrible mistake on the Diane Rehm show today – instead of talking about OWS, they actually allowed a couple of people from the movement to go on the show and talk. Wow, what a breath of fresh air, their idealism, their ideas (the trouble is when you actually let people speak, you can’t lie and say they have nothing to say) – it was quite wonderful. They had the usual talkabouters to – one guy sniffed that they’ll never get anywhere if they aren’t willing to vote for a Republican once in a while. What a silly loser, he sounded like he had a stick up his ass.  This isn’t a movement that’s failed, its a movement thats just getting started.  Here’s a nice rebuttal to the idea that dumping books is no big deal:  http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/11/16/the-book-dumpers/

]]> By: Curtrude http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271327 Curtrude Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:00:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271327 I know that it has evolved, I am saying that it needs to keep evolving.  And after thinking about it, I don't think that the occupations necessarily need to end, they need to address the issues that are hurting the OWS cause.  The issues of crime and sanitation are some.  I know that some efforts are made on that front already, but I think more needs to be done.  Also, there is the issue of the OWS occupation being hijack by other movements, ie legalization of marijuana.  Those issue also need to be addressed. I know that it has evolved, I am saying that it needs to keep evolving.  And after thinking about it, I don’t think that the occupations necessarily need to end, they need to address the issues that are hurting the OWS cause.  The issues of crime and sanitation are some.  I know that some efforts are made on that front already, but I think more needs to be done.  Also, there is the issue of the OWS occupation being hijack by other movements, ie legalization of marijuana.  Those issue also need to be addressed.

]]> By: Curtrude http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271320 Curtrude Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271320 True, that is why they can afford to do it with less people.  Each person has more money to give to the cause.  If OWS is as widespread as they would like, more people giving less money each can still do just as much.  More people would be better anyhow, same amount of money plus more votes when the times comes. True, that is why they can afford to do it with less people.  Each person has more money to give to the cause.  If OWS is as widespread as they would like, more people giving less money each can still do just as much.  More people would be better anyhow, same amount of money plus more votes when the times comes.

]]> By: Curtrude http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271318 Curtrude Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271318 Just an ID of the person requesting the stuff.  I assume that they will record who took what so that if there is a conflict, they know who to look for. Just an ID of the person requesting the stuff.  I assume that they will record who took what so that if there is a conflict, they know who to look for.

]]> By: ann langone http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271255 ann langone Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:23:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271255 That could never happen here.....aaaah...a teachable moment. Add to your OWS lesson plans:  The Librarian of Basra: a true story from Iraq/Jeanette Winter  or Alia's Mission: Saving the Books of Iraq/Mark Alan Stamatsky That could never happen here…..aaaah…a teachable moment. Add to your OWS lesson plans:
 The Librarian of Basra: a true story from Iraq/Jeanette Winter  or Alia’s Mission: Saving the Books of Iraq/Mark Alan Stamatsky

]]> By: Roman Berry http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271137 Roman Berry Wed, 16 Nov 2011 05:21:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271137 Orwell knew what dumping the library was about. Getting rid of the documents and the books and the art is just a step in the process of shoving the entire movement down the memory hole. Orwell knew what dumping the library was about. Getting rid of the documents and the books and the art is just a step in the process of shoving the entire movement down the memory hole.

]]> By: Sarah Jeanne Lombardo http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271109 Sarah Jeanne Lombardo Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271109 Yes, cranky pants, because a discarded book is as equally, infuriatingly unsalvageable as a burnt one. Yes, cranky pants, because a discarded book is as equally, infuriatingly unsalvageable as a burnt one.

]]> By: johnson_lee http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271098 johnson_lee Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271098 Do that at a Tea Party rally and see what you get. Whatever it is you won't see it on mainstream media. Do that at a Tea Party rally and see what you get. Whatever it is you won’t see it on mainstream media.

]]> By: johnson_lee http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271097 johnson_lee Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:39:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271097 So if I'm at a park - imagining I'm in a tent, but not protesting - and someone wants to use the space I'm using, do I have to get up and give that space to them? or should they mind their business and find their own space? So if I’m at a park – imagining I’m in a tent, but not protesting – and someone wants to use the space I’m using, do I have to get up and give that space to them? or should they mind their business and find their own space?

]]> By: johnson_lee http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271091 johnson_lee Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:34:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271091 Smart Smart

]]> By: johnson_lee http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271088 johnson_lee Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:32:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271088 Whose I.D. will they accept?  Whose I.D. will they accept? 

]]> By: johnson_lee http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271084 johnson_lee Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:30:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271084 Hahahahahaha, yeah, they will tear down part of their money making business to pave the park. Good one. Public access is in the Constitution? Hahahahahaha, yeah, they will tear down part of their money making business to pave the park. Good one. Public access is in the Constitution?

]]> By: johnson_lee http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271079 johnson_lee Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:28:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271079 Fucking finally someone spells it out. copy and paste please. Fucking finally someone spells it out. copy and paste please.

]]> By: johnson_lee http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271073 johnson_lee Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:25:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271073 POPS - privately owned PUBLIC SPACE POPS – privately owned PUBLIC SPACE

]]> By: johnson_lee http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271070 johnson_lee Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:23:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271070 Hey man, that's socialism... Hey man, that’s socialism…

]]> By: johnson_lee http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271066 johnson_lee Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:22:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271066 The Tea Party leaders/founders were already political insiders/hugely monied people. It was already their game. The Tea Party leaders/founders were already political insiders/hugely monied people. It was already their game.

]]> By: johnson_lee http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271060 johnson_lee Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271060 Spend locally, small business, made in America... or support your local group with food/water, etc. Spend locally, small business, made in America… or support your local group with food/water, etc.

]]> By: johnson_lee http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271054 johnson_lee Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271054 (I'll copy/paste a response from earlier) Occupy Boston with russell Simmons today unleashed an Amendment that we should all back concerning elections funded publicly. An awesome first step and the real goal of the winter: Amendments/Bills, legal cases against cops/precincts, recalling elected officials and BOYCOTTS!!! (I’ll copy/paste a response from earlier) Occupy Boston with russell Simmons today unleashed an Amendment that we should all back concerning elections funded publicly. An awesome first step and the real goal of the winter: Amendments/Bills, legal cases against cops/precincts, recalling elected officials and BOYCOTTS!!!

]]> By: johnson_lee http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271052 johnson_lee Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:11:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271052 Occupy Boston with russell Simmons today unleashed an Amendment that we should all back concerning elections funded publicly. An awesome first step and the real goal of the winter: Amendments/Bills, legal cases against cops/precincts, recalling elected officials and BOYCOTTS!!! Occupy Boston with russell Simmons today unleashed an Amendment that we should all back concerning elections funded publicly. An awesome first step and the real goal of the winter: Amendments/Bills, legal cases against cops/precincts, recalling elected officials and BOYCOTTS!!!

]]> By: johnson_lee http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271043 johnson_lee Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:06:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271043 POPS-Privately Owned Public Space has it's own set of rules. Do you know those rules? And, yeah, the casual visiter is more important and noticed by The Constitution than Peaceful Protesters. Sarcasm. POPS-Privately Owned Public Space has it’s own set of rules. Do you know those rules? And, yeah, the casual visiter is more important and noticed by The Constitution than Peaceful Protesters. Sarcasm.

]]> By: johnson_lee http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271039 johnson_lee Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:02:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271039 Alexandria...  Alexandria… 

]]> By: Gillian Doan http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1271028 Gillian Doan Wed, 16 Nov 2011 03:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1271028 Public libraries are one of the great equality makers.  They offer the world of knowledge, literacy, the arts, history, etc... to all.  Access to public libraries is known to increase literacy, decrease crime, increase health, increase community involvement - there are a slew of statistics - Google "public library benefits".  Unfortunately, public libraries are on the decrease worldwide.  Even more unfortunately, they are becoming a resource that is limited to the "haves" - with "have-nots" increasingly finding access to these resources difficult, if not impossible to obtain (proof of fixed address often being a requirement for borrowing privileges).   This library was anything but cutesy, it was truly fundamental not only to the OWS goals, but the occupancy itself, just as public libraries are generally fundamental to a functioning democracy and community. Public libraries are one of the great equality makers.  They offer the world of knowledge, literacy, the arts, history, etc… to all.  Access to public libraries is known to increase literacy, decrease crime, increase health, increase community involvement – there are a slew of statistics – Google “public library benefits”.  Unfortunately, public libraries are on the decrease worldwide.  Even more unfortunately, they are becoming a resource that is limited to the “haves” – with “have-nots” increasingly finding access to these resources difficult, if not impossible to obtain (proof of fixed address often being a requirement for borrowing privileges).  
This library was anything but cutesy, it was truly fundamental not only to the OWS goals, but the occupancy itself, just as public libraries are generally fundamental to a functioning democracy and community.

]]> By: Chauncey Scott http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1270840 Chauncey Scott Wed, 16 Nov 2011 01:10:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1270840 Really? The goal of OWS is to get pepper sprayed, so your message with then gain validity? Really? The goal of OWS is to get pepper sprayed, so your message with then gain validity?

]]> By: Chauncey Scott http://boingboing.net/2011/11/15/nypd-raze-the-ows-library-th.html#comment-1270838 Chauncey Scott Wed, 16 Nov 2011 01:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=129293#comment-1270838 The problem, in my opinion, is the ideal, that every American is one step away from being a millionaire. We can trace back the issues, but really the economic turn down reaches to the sub-prime mortgages. Realistically, if you make 45K a year, you shouldn't A) be approved for a mortgage on a 350K house. B) think that the math makes sense. C) be arrogant enough to think, that you are just one promotion away from being the boss. It's not Capitalisms' fault, that your degree in Japanese Art History, isn't landing you the level of work, your self-inflated image thinks you deserve. I know the current system is garbage. But I also know, standing occupying public places without a unified message isn't going to result in much. When I watch the GOP debates, the proctor doesn't ask, well how about OWS? I feel all the energy and vigor being extolled would just be better served, as a political movement. The people in power aren't going to say tomorrow, everything that makes us who we are is wrong and needs to change. It's just not how it works. We as Americans aren't oppressed, in the way the countries of the "Arab Spring" are. So there isn't going to be this groundswell governmental overthrow. I'm all for the right to protest. But do it smart. Use websites. Twitter, Facebook, create some new networks. Don't sit in a park, in what is essentially a 2 month long festival, without a voice. Like I said previously the only attention the media gives OWS is negative/spin. I'm sure there are brilliant people at Zucotti park, in Oakland, Portland etc. The goal shouldn't be, to get beaten by cops to cause change. That is the silliest thing ever. The goal should be an overhaul in policy over the next 30 yrs, via our(18-40) generation. I think it could be best accomplished, thru uplifting each other and gaining a voice, but it takes time. 2 months is but a drop in the bucket of America, we all need to realize that. It's about to get very cold out thru most of our Nation. This will lose steam if not nurtured correctly. trav - not directed at you, just got rolling. best wishes. The problem, in my opinion, is the ideal, that every American is one step away from being a millionaire. We can trace back the issues, but really the economic turn down reaches to the sub-prime mortgages. Realistically, if you make 45K a year, you shouldn’t A) be approved for a mortgage on a 350K house. B) think that the math makes sense. C) be arrogant enough to think, that you are just one promotion away from being the boss. It’s not Capitalisms’ fault, that your degree in Japanese Art History, isn’t landing you the level of work, your self-inflated image thinks you deserve. I know the current system is garbage. But I also know, standing occupying public places without a unified message isn’t going to result in much. When I watch the GOP debates, the proctor doesn’t ask, well how about OWS? I feel all the energy and vigor being extolled would just be better served, as a political movement. The people in power aren’t going to say tomorrow, everything that makes us who we are is wrong and needs to change. It’s just not how it works. We as Americans aren’t oppressed, in the way the countries of the “Arab Spring” are. So there isn’t going to be this groundswell governmental overthrow. I’m all for the right to protest. But do it smart. Use websites. Twitter, Facebook, create some new networks. Don’t sit in a park, in what is essentially a 2 month long festival, without a voice. Like I said previously the only attention the media gives OWS is negative/spin. I’m sure there are brilliant people at Zucotti park, in Oakland, Portland etc. The goal shouldn’t be, to get beaten by cops to cause change. That is the silliest thing ever. The goal should be an overhaul in policy over the next 30 yrs, via our(18-40) generation. I think it could be best accomplished, thru uplifting each other and gaining a voice, but it takes time. 2 months is but a drop in the bucket of America, we all need to realize that. It’s about to get very cold out thru most of our Nation. This will lose steam if not nurtured correctly.

trav – not directed at you, just got rolling. best wishes.

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