Alan Moore talks V for Vendetta Guy Fawkes masks

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41 Responses to “Alan Moore talks V for Vendetta Guy Fawkes masks”

  1. Kwolfbrooks says:

    I do like the concept of Warner facilitating its own demise!  It’s like the serpent consuming its own tail.

  2. erskine calderon says:

    TW is making money off of the protests – that’s the way it’s done by the 1%.

    Too bad noone came up with a Tom Joad mask – the Occupy movement would at least have theme music…

  3. polnareff says:

    The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them….

  4. Locobot says:

    He’s actually pretty positive here, maybe they forgot to remind him to be a curmudgeon. Makes me think his qualms with the movies made of his works are probably legitimate.

    • William George says:

      “He’s actually pretty positive here, maybe they forgot to remind him to be a curmudgeon.” 

      The thing you must remember about comics fans is that unless you pat them on the head and call them wise for their obsessions on a regular basis they will turn on you like a spoiled two year old child who was denied candy before dinner.

      Moore forgot that… probably because he never let himself become a permanent resident of Fandom La-La Land… and comics types have responded by labeling him a crank for every statement that he makes.

    • “Makes me think his qualms with the movies made of his works are probably legitimate.”

      Weeeell. I could totally understand a “they are raping my babies!”-attitude, especially seeing how most adaptions of his work are really horrible”LXG” was incredibly bad, and “V for Vendetta” was, while objectively not that bad of a movie, disapointing in its’ tameness and watering-down of the comic’s politics (quite ironically, given that it was mostly the movie that popularized those masks).
      However, Moore’s stance isn’t just that. He holds that any adaption of his (and, by extension, everyone’s) work is unecessary and inherently worthless. And, all the respect I have for Moore nonwithstanding, that’s just flat-out wrong.

  5. Lobster says:

    “We can’t sell them these masks!  They’re using them to say we don’t care about anything but money!”
    “But… we don’t.”
    “Oh yeah.  Maybe we should up the price.”

  6. jeligula says:

    People now know the name of Guy Fawkes, and not so much because of the movie V for Vendetta.   The Black Powder Rebellion still means nothing to those who have seen the movie, really.  I am just wondering what Fawkes himself would think of this had he known what is going on.

    • William George says:

      “I am just wondering what Fawkes himself would think of this had he known what is going on.”

      He’d be so angry that he’d try to murder someone in the name of the Pope.

    • Finnagain says:

      He would think we should violently overthrow this regime and replace it with a Catholic dictatorship.

      Nice masks, though.

  7. digi_owl says:

    The more statements i read from Alan Moore, the more i like the guy.

  8. toobigtofail says:

    Alan Moore/David Lloyd may take credit for this, but Guy Fawkes-style masks were used in the late 70s during the Sandinista revolution in Nicaragua to provide anonymity from Somoza’s goons.

    Time-Warner’s “ethical” dilemma puts a warm fuzzy glow to the weekend.

  9. Thorfin says:

    Of  course, not one in ten of the Occupiers could tell you who Guy Fawkes really was.  They only like the cool mask from that movie. 
    A few I’ve talked to could recite the first couple of lines of the 5th of  November rhyme.  And NONE of those knew it was celebrating the death of Fawkes and his plotters and a graphic threat to destroy English Catholics.

    I wonder — if there had been a John Wilkes Booth mask available would they have worn it?

    • Laroquod says:

      “Of  course, not one in ten of the Occupiers could tell you who Guy Fawkes really was.  They only like the cool mask from that movie.”

      Except… the mask is not just a pretty picture in a movie… it’s the key symbol of a seminal comic book that uses the Guy Fawkes mask as a metaphor for revolt. People who ignore the comic book and pretend-like wearing the mask is in support of Guy Fawkes’s views, are rather obtusely missing the point.

    • Mister44 says:

      re: “Of  course, not one in ten of the Occupiers could tell you who Guy Fawkes really was.”

      It doesn’t really matter, because it isn’t about Guy Fawkes, as much as it is about the “cool mask”. The original meaning has become twisted  and re-purposed.  The swastika has a completely different meaning now than it originally did.

      • Cowicide says:

        It doesn’t really matter, because it isn’t about Guy Fawkes, as much as it is about the “cool mask”. The original meaning has become twisted  and re-purposed.  The swastika has a completely different meaning now than it originally did.

        Right, for many who wear the mask… until there’s a cheat code/button sequence in Skyrim that remotely blows up Congress or the Bank of America headquarters; I think we’re all pretty safe from violence from these guys.

    • That_Anonymous_Coward says:

      Or could they tell you that the plot gained steam as they were unable to get the right to practice their religion without the interference of the crown.  That it took another 200 yrs after the plot before the anti-catholic laws started to change.

      So a government refused to listen to its people, and forced them to support something they did not believe in… let me know if I need to add more dots to be connected….

      • Antinous / Moderator says:

        … let me know if I need to add more dots to be connected….

        Most of the population did not want a return to Catholicism. A Catholic monarch owed allegiance to the Pope first and his people second. The Protestants didn’t burn hundreds of people, including whole families, at the stake. The Inquisition was still active throughout Europe at the time. You really should spend a few hours on Wikipedia, at least, and read some British history from 1500 to 1700.

        • Wally Ballou says:

          “A Catholic monarch owed allegiance to the Poe first and his people second.”

          This is just anti-Catholic raven, and you should cut it out.

        • Teller says:

          Dear God! Wikipedia? Maybe Barzun’s From Dawn to Decadence: 500 Years of Western Cultural Life, 1500 to the Present.

          • Antinous / Moderator says:

            Non-recent history is one of the areas where Wikipedia isn’t bad.  Although religion is one of the worst areas.  Still, it gives an outline for further reading endeavors.

          • Thorfin says:

            Maybe Teller would rather pick up a book.  Here is a list of books which address anti Catholicism in 17th century England. 
            John Marshall, John Locke, Toleration and Early Enlightenment Culture
            Pauline Croft, King James
            Antonia Fraser, The Gunpowder Plot
            Alan Haynes, The Gunpowder Plot: Faith in Rebellion
            David Cressy, Bonfires and bells: national memory and the Protestant calendar in Elizabethan and Stuart England
            Alice Hogge, God’s Secret Agents: Queen Elizabeth’s Forbidden Priests and the Hatching of the Gunpowder Plot
            Adrian Tinniswood,  By Permission of Heaven: The Story of the Great Fire of London.

        • That_Anonymous_Coward says:

          The dots I was going to connect were the parallels between then and now.
          People in power ignoring the rights of others, and people motivated to try and get things to change.  I’m not saying everyone had pure motives, or good motives.

          While I am glad we aren’t to the level of blowing things up yet one can draw parallels between then and now.  Religion always mucks everything up.  Leaders always seem to ignore the people in favor of those with money and power.

  10. Cowicide says:

    It’s not really anything that they want to be associated with. And yet they really don’t like turning down money – it goes against all of their instincts.” Moore chuckles. “I find it more funny than irksome.”

    Love that part.

    Just goes to show that corporations are more like animals acting upon raw instincts than anything else.  And it also goes to show why it’s terrifyingly stupid and dangerous that we humans have given these giant, destructive animals “personhood” status.

    It’s like setting a trained killer whale loose in a swimming pool filled with preschoolers for “whale rides”.  It’s criminally negligent, unethical and just plain fucking stupid.

    • loroferoz says:

      In reality it only shows that human beings (and corporations of the same) react to incentives in predictable ways.  And that the world is weirder and more wonderful than you could ever imagine. The world is not in black and white, it’s in color, and then visible color is just an infinitesimal of the whole.

      It’s plain stupid to give an anonymous collective “personhood” status. But it’s strange, to see that it ends up making tools for those who are against it. It’s no weirder than seeing inventions by hackers used by corporations and government.

      Funnier still: The guys wearing masks to protests now got their motifs from the movie, not from Alan Moore. Strange, though, I prefer the work of Alan Moore infinitely to the movie.

      In the comic… V’s plan was not just to topple government; but to destroy it utterly, anarchy. He is The Batman of anarchist terrorists, genial and near-superhuman, working by himself. V blew Parliament up at the very outset.  Nowhere does a crowd wear Guy Fawkes masks and V does certainly not distribute them. 

      But you have to agree that the Wachowsky brothers (yes, the same) and James McTeigue  came up with a powerful image and a a powerful message, on a Time-Warner movie no less. Alan Moore-inspired, but no, not Alan Moore’s.

      • Cowicide says:

        the world is weirder and more wonderful than you could ever imagine.

        Hello there, pretentious one.

        In reality it only shows that human beings (and corporations of the same) react to incentives in predictable ways.

        Reality shows that corporations are not human.  They are structured entities that put profit ahead of humanity and, overall, benefit the few on the backs of the many.  In their current, corrupt form they are unsustainable for humanity and thrive on ignorance.

        You should educate yourself on the history and de-evolution of corporations and maybe you’ll wake up from wonderland.

        http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=FA50FBC214A6CE87

        The guys wearing masks to protests now got their motifs from the movie, not from Alan Moore.

        [citations sorely needed]

        Pretentious one, so now that you speak for all the “guys wearing masks” (of course, no females have done this in your normal and boring world) – Please, the world anxiously wants to know… what will all these guys do next and what will their motives be, omniscient one?

        Can’t wait to hear…

        Funnier still: The guys wearing masks to protests now got their motifs from the movie, not from Alan Moore. Strange, though, I prefer the work of Alan Moore infinitely to the movie.
        In the comic… V’s plan was not just to topple government; but to destroy it utterly, anarchy. He is The Batman of anarchist terrorists, genial and near-superhuman, working by himself. V blew Parliament up at the very outset.  Nowhere does a crowd wear Guy Fawkes masks and V does certainly not distribute them.

        You see, loroferoz, the world is weirder and more wonderful than you could ever imagine.  The mask has come to symbolize resistance against corruption for many who wear them.  An ode to Anonymous roots for others as well.  You may have heard of them, no?

        Maybe in your world, everyone is trying to act out some film or graphic novel.  In the real world, it’s far more complex, weirder and more wonderful than that, thank goodness.

        But you have to agree that the Wachowsky brothers (yes, the same) and James McTeigue  came up with a powerful image and a a powerful message, on a Time-Warner movie no less. Alan Moore-inspired, but no, not Alan Moore’s.

        I hope this doesn’t cause you cognitive dissonance, but I don’t like the current structure of corporations and I think giving them personhood is a fatal mistake for humankind because of the nature of corporations… and at the same time I like The Matrix.

        You see, the world is not in black and white, it’s in color, and then visible color is just an infinitesimal of the whole.

        I hope I enlightened you.  Now, please… take the red pill and maybe I’ll come pick you up.

        • loroferoz says:

          I was not making a personal comment on Cowicide’s imagination with ” the world is weirder and more wonderful than you could ever imagine.” That’s true for every human being. You, me, everyone. The world’s also full of contradiction, the raw material for irony.

          I also don’t like many huge corporations. Call them conglomerates or multinationals. I think you refer to them. I agree with you.

          Corporations come in all sizes. They are a form of human association. They are “anonymous” collectives, they haven’t a person’s name attached to them. They cannot be persons and have individual rights, that is dangerous nonsense. I also agree with you here.

          However big the corporation, decisions are taken by human beings and usually these can be seen to be responses to incentives. Human beings can be bad, also they can become quite bad working within an organization, possessing “authority”, or being under pressure. Humans within a corporation should be accountable, for criminal decisions, and corporations should be accountable for “civil” damages. Being bad when in groups is a liability of every human form of association. 2 friends together, clubs, political parties, police forces, armed forces, corporations and government.

          I can only cite the graphic novel by Alan Moore and David Lloyd. And the movie by James McTeigue and the Wachowsky Brothers.

          I don’t think Alan Moore thought it possible to follow V’s example. I said I prefer the Alan Moore’s fantastic story on the whole. With V’s, Eric Finch, Evey’s and Adam Susan’s (the Leader) dialogues and monologues. With the story and evolution of individual characters like Rosemary Almond, and of a fascist state like Norsefire’s when under attack. I do not read it for the action sequences; that V is superhuman that kills barehanded and can build a Bat-Cave all alone (groan!). 

          All that is difficult to fit in a movie. This one is in many ways an action flick with a Superhero. The anonymous, masked protest scenes, though, are pure genius on the part of the Wachowsky Brothers and McTeigue and have actually conveyed an important message. In a Time Warner’s “blockbuster” no less, I must keep underlining. 

          Only it’s something Alan Moore never thought up or imagined. He’s created the work that inspired the movie. But for the scene with the masked mass protest, they should go ask the screenwriters and the director of the movie. 

          Maybe I am pretentious in assuming that groups people engaged in protest, such as Anonymous, got the idea of wearing Guy Fawkes masks and adapting them for their purposes (which I usually support) from a scene in the movie where normal people wear them; not from reading about V, a brilliant if suicidal freak, using the mask for entirely different reasons. And maybe I call “guys and gals” “guys” because because I like how it sounds next to “Guy” Fawkes masks. I am aware that the “gals” are fully capable humans, no lesser and no greater than “guys”.

          I prefer to be unenlightened and have an open eye and an open ear for contradiction.

  11. MrCoelho says:

    Well if alan moore said that’s what TW thinks, I’m cool with it.  Don’t need to use critical thinking here if that excellent musician’s already cleared this one. Big beard saving us time.  Love it.

    • Laroquod says:

      What musician?

    • Tim Drage says:

      what are you even on about?

      • MrCoelho says:

        Haha … the tone of this post came across, to me, as,”since Mr. Moore blesses the use of the mask, the issue was now moot.”  I was pointing out that just because someone who champions free thought offers his perspective on a situation, it doesn’t mean that others who have disparate thoughts on the same matter should drop their reservations.  Nor should they (those with other opinions) change their tune simply because the individual who has recently chimed in (Mr. Moore) created the character who originally donned the mask.  That is what I am even on about, Tim.

  12. Teller says:

    I think corporations are the most human when they try to avoid paying taxes: “Apple, Google, Cisco, Microsoft, Oracle, EMC Adobe, Qualcomm and other companies and trade groups are lobbying hard for a tax holiday. Corporations in the biotech and energy sectors are also on the bandwagon, but the strongest push is coming from Silicon Valley.”

  13. robdobbs says:

    It’s good to see, at least for the moment, Anon got that advert FOR Scientology off their page: http://anonops.blogspot.com/

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