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	<title>Comments on: How the tax code works for&#160;billionaires</title>
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	<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html</link>
	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: Derek Balling</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282480</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Balling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282480</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re replying to the wrong person or taking it out of context. I&#039;m totally supportive of the Lauders in this case. I was talking about why that guy was being penalized by the IRS and the Luaders weren&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re replying to the wrong person or taking it out of context. I&#8217;m totally supportive of the Lauders in this case. I was talking about why that guy was being penalized by the IRS and the Luaders weren&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: flyoverland</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282478</link>
		<dc:creator>flyoverland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282478</guid>
		<description>The same options are open to you. Why don&#039;t you use them? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The same options are open to you. Why don&#8217;t you use them? </p>
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		<title>By: flyoverland</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282477</link>
		<dc:creator>flyoverland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282477</guid>
		<description>Why shouldn&#039;t they get the value of the item they donated? If they sold it, would they get the current value (more or less) or what they paid for it? Your argument doesn&#039;t make any sense. I made a six figure donation this year. I didn&#039;t get to keep it. Its gone. Out of my control. Now owned by a university. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why shouldn&#8217;t they get the value of the item they donated? If they sold it, would they get the current value (more or less) or what they paid for it? Your argument doesn&#8217;t make any sense. I made a six figure donation this year. I didn&#8217;t get to keep it. Its gone. Out of my control. Now owned by a university. </p>
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		<title>By: flyoverland</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282476</link>
		<dc:creator>flyoverland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282476</guid>
		<description>I was talking about the bankruptcy of the company whose stock they shorted. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was talking about the bankruptcy of the company whose stock they shorted. </p>
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		<title>By: Vincent Maldia</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282414</link>
		<dc:creator>Vincent Maldia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 12:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282414</guid>
		<description>a book on how the 99% can also do that would sell like hotcakes.

the law is the law. as the saying goes, it may be harsh but its the law. If you dont like it, petition to have the law changed by your congressman. And in fact, thats what happened 

the aricle says &quot;that Congress later enacted a law forbidding the tactic,&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a book on how the 99% can also do that would sell like hotcakes.</p>
<p>the law is the law. as the saying goes, it may be harsh but its the law. If you dont like it, petition to have the law changed by your congressman. And in fact, thats what happened </p>
<p>the aricle says &#8220;that Congress later enacted a law forbidding the tactic,&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Balling</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282281</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Balling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 05:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282281</guid>
		<description>Under most circumstances, you can not take a deduction for a value higher than your acquisition cost. See IRS Publication 526 for details.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Under most circumstances, you can not take a deduction for a value higher than your acquisition cost. See IRS Publication 526 for details.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hasse</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282277</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hasse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 04:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282277</guid>
		<description>&quot;Uh, if they donated cash or property, its no longer theirs. How is that avoiding taxes? If they would have kept the money, they would have been better off paying the tax.&quot;

In two ways.  First, the property usually remains in their possession until death.  Second, the write-off amount is for the &quot;value&quot; of the piece, *not* what they actually paid for it, so it can actually shelter more than the (no longer) taxable cash value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Uh, if they donated cash or property, its no longer theirs. How is that avoiding taxes? If they would have kept the money, they would have been better off paying the tax.&#8221;</p>
<p>In two ways.  First, the property usually remains in their possession until death.  Second, the write-off amount is for the &#8220;value&#8221; of the piece, *not* what they actually paid for it, so it can actually shelter more than the (no longer) taxable cash value.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hasse</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282275</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hasse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 04:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282275</guid>
		<description>Filing for bankruptcy wouldn&#039;t help you anyway, taxes owed are exempt.  The IRS does, however, have various repayment options which are actually quite reasonable and if you can demonstrate hardship, (which you probably can at this point!), you can get complete deferment for a year at a time for up to several years.  Additionally, while you will have to pay interest, the accumulated penalties can be waived if you request it and have a good story (w/documentation of course) for why things all fell apart.  If your local IRS agent is not helpful you can also (politely!) request that your case be assigned to somebody else.  A good accountant helps a lot as well as they have more direct access to IRS records and often know more about such things than the agents, especially if they deal with IRS audits on a regular basis.  HTH - good luck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Filing for bankruptcy wouldn&#8217;t help you anyway, taxes owed are exempt.  The IRS does, however, have various repayment options which are actually quite reasonable and if you can demonstrate hardship, (which you probably can at this point!), you can get complete deferment for a year at a time for up to several years.  Additionally, while you will have to pay interest, the accumulated penalties can be waived if you request it and have a good story (w/documentation of course) for why things all fell apart.  If your local IRS agent is not helpful you can also (politely!) request that your case be assigned to somebody else.  A good accountant helps a lot as well as they have more direct access to IRS records and often know more about such things than the agents, especially if they deal with IRS audits on a regular basis.  HTH &#8211; good luck!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hasse</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282271</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hasse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 04:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282271</guid>
		<description>Virtually every Wisconsin coal-mining company operates tax-free due to tax code loopholes that are known only to those who wrote them.  They&#039;re very generic-sounding of course, but only a few specific companies fit the criteria defined.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Virtually every Wisconsin coal-mining company operates tax-free due to tax code loopholes that are known only to those who wrote them.  They&#8217;re very generic-sounding of course, but only a few specific companies fit the criteria defined.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hasse</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282268</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hasse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 04:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282268</guid>
		<description>&quot;Like all those car companies selling cars they haven&#039;t built.&quot;

&quot;Where do you live that people buy imaginary cars?  Here in the US of A, we mosey on down to the dealership and drive one off the lot.&quot;

And those would often be (some of) the cars in question, a year or so later!  It is quite common for the auto manufacturers to &quot;sell&quot; cars to dealers in one quarter to boost their numbers, then have them &quot;returned&quot; the next quarter.  Yes, it&#039;s stupid, and it doesn&#039;t really do much for the long run, but it has a few advantages:
- any retiring VIP can take a larger than normal bonus and leave the downside to his successor
- a badly-selling model can be kept out of the trade magazines by masking the true sale numbers
- annual numbers can be made to look better with 364 days to make it true
- dealerships can get better bank rates with more inventory (supposedly) on the lot as collateral
etc etc
      </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Like all those car companies selling cars they haven&#8217;t built.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Where do you live that people buy imaginary cars?  Here in the US of A, we mosey on down to the dealership and drive one off the lot.&#8221;</p>
<p>And those would often be (some of) the cars in question, a year or so later!  It is quite common for the auto manufacturers to &#8220;sell&#8221; cars to dealers in one quarter to boost their numbers, then have them &#8220;returned&#8221; the next quarter.  Yes, it&#8217;s stupid, and it doesn&#8217;t really do much for the long run, but it has a few advantages:<br />
- any retiring VIP can take a larger than normal bonus and leave the downside to his successor<br />
- a badly-selling model can be kept out of the trade magazines by masking the true sale numbers<br />
- annual numbers can be made to look better with 364 days to make it true<br />
- dealerships can get better bank rates with more inventory (supposedly) on the lot as collateral<br />
etc etc</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hasse</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282266</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hasse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 04:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282266</guid>
		<description>&quot;My question to you is, then why would they go to all this trouble?  Somehow this is giving them an advantage.&quot;

Same reason you would take deductions on your taxes for contributions to non-profit charities.  It (was) a valid option for tax avoidance/deferral.  Everybody does things like this, just thee and me usually do it for less-than-newsworthy dollar amounts.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My question to you is, then why would they go to all this trouble?  Somehow this is giving them an advantage.&#8221;</p>
<p>Same reason you would take deductions on your taxes for contributions to non-profit charities.  It (was) a valid option for tax avoidance/deferral.  Everybody does things like this, just thee and me usually do it for less-than-newsworthy dollar amounts.  :)</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Balling</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282248</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Balling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 03:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282248</guid>
		<description>The difference is your tax was DUE at some point in the past, and their tax is DUE at some point in the future. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difference is your tax was DUE at some point in the past, and their tax is DUE at some point in the future. </p>
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		<title>By: flyoverland</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282231</link>
		<dc:creator>flyoverland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 03:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282231</guid>
		<description>Uh, if they donated cash or property, its no longer theirs. How is that avoiding taxes? If they would have kept the money, they would have been better off paying the tax. Also, shorting is not some obscure tactic. Its done millions of times a day by all types of investors. Again, they didn&#039;t avoid the tax, they only postponed it. Some day, they will have to cover the short. The difference between the price where they put the short and a lower price will be taxable as a capital gain. If the stock goes up, they will lose money on the deal. The only way you can avoid taxes on a short sale is if the company goes bankrupt. That is one loophole. Because you can never cover the short, no tax is due. This really isn&#039;t a great example of people avoiding taxes. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh, if they donated cash or property, its no longer theirs. How is that avoiding taxes? If they would have kept the money, they would have been better off paying the tax. Also, shorting is not some obscure tactic. Its done millions of times a day by all types of investors. Again, they didn&#8217;t avoid the tax, they only postponed it. Some day, they will have to cover the short. The difference between the price where they put the short and a lower price will be taxable as a capital gain. If the stock goes up, they will lose money on the deal. The only way you can avoid taxes on a short sale is if the company goes bankrupt. That is one loophole. Because you can never cover the short, no tax is due. This really isn&#8217;t a great example of people avoiding taxes. </p>
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		<title>By: Cameron Huff</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282207</link>
		<dc:creator>Cameron Huff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 02:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282207</guid>
		<description>Wow.  I currently owe the IRS $800 plus dollars and I can&#039;t pay it.  They have sent me a nice threatening letter saying they will grab my property to pay the debt I owe (no I can&#039;t file for bankruptcy cause it would cost money that I don&#039;t have).  But these &#039;people&#039; owe millions or billions in taxes and the IRS simply looks the other way and does nothing.

What a f**ked up country this is...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  I currently owe the IRS $800 plus dollars and I can&#8217;t pay it.  They have sent me a nice threatening letter saying they will grab my property to pay the debt I owe (no I can&#8217;t file for bankruptcy cause it would cost money that I don&#8217;t have).  But these &#8216;people&#8217; owe millions or billions in taxes and the IRS simply looks the other way and does nothing.</p>
<p>What a f**ked up country this is&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Paul232</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282147</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul232</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 01:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282147</guid>
		<description>Of course you&#039;re correct, but falling on deaf ears around here. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course you&#8217;re correct, but falling on deaf ears around here. </p>
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		<title>By: sgtdoom</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282057</link>
		<dc:creator>sgtdoom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282057</guid>
		<description>Wiser words were never spoken, and you may or may not be aware of the classic Louis B. Mayers&#039; tax clause, circa early 1950s, when he hired attorneys to pay off congress critters to insert a customized clause allowing him to keep much of his fortune after retirement --- it was specifically written such that ONLY Mayers would benefit from this clause, as it affected no one in his situation afterwards (after the date of this tax clause), only prior!

And far too much, most likely every single page, of the Internal Revenue Code is written like this!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wiser words were never spoken, and you may or may not be aware of the classic Louis B. Mayers&#8217; tax clause, circa early 1950s, when he hired attorneys to pay off congress critters to insert a customized clause allowing him to keep much of his fortune after retirement &#8212; it was specifically written such that ONLY Mayers would benefit from this clause, as it affected no one in his situation afterwards (after the date of this tax clause), only prior!</p>
<p>And far too much, most likely every single page, of the Internal Revenue Code is written like this!</p>
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		<title>By: sgtdoom</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282051</link>
		<dc:creator>sgtdoom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282051</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;..donating to your own charity is also not illegal nor immoral..&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;

No, but the matter they have historically done so, is indeed unethical, amoral, and absolutely destructive of the tax base.

Example:  they purchase a work of art for $10,000 then donate it to a museum while claiming its value at $60,000, thus writing said donation on their taxes, and realizes a $50,000 profit at the expense of the tax base (i.e., taxpayers, etc.).

And there are far more extensive tax evasion and tax avoidance schemes than that.

Every American should have read Ferdinand Lundberg&#039;s &lt;i&gt;The Rich and the Super-Rich&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong><i>&#8220;..donating to your own charity is also not illegal nor immoral..&#8221;</i></strong></p>
<p>No, but the matter they have historically done so, is indeed unethical, amoral, and absolutely destructive of the tax base.</p>
<p>Example:  they purchase a work of art for $10,000 then donate it to a museum while claiming its value at $60,000, thus writing said donation on their taxes, and realizes a $50,000 profit at the expense of the tax base (i.e., taxpayers, etc.).</p>
<p>And there are far more extensive tax evasion and tax avoidance schemes than that.</p>
<p>Every American should have read Ferdinand Lundberg&#8217;s <i>The Rich and the Super-Rich</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: sgtdoom</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282047</link>
		<dc:creator>sgtdoom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282047</guid>
		<description>We don’t pay taxes; only the little people pay taxes. – Leona Helmsley</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We don’t pay taxes; only the little people pay taxes. – Leona Helmsley</p>
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		<title>By: hinten</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282037</link>
		<dc:creator>hinten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282037</guid>
		<description>Shorting against the box is illegal at this point.
I thought I would point that out since the article obfuscates that point by simply stating: &quot;Under I.R.S. rules at the time.&quot;

As usual, it&#039;s up to the reader to decide if they are purposefully being mislead or if this is a simple omission for clarity sake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shorting against the box is illegal at this point.<br />
I thought I would point that out since the article obfuscates that point by simply stating: &#8220;Under I.R.S. rules at the time.&#8221;</p>
<p>As usual, it&#8217;s up to the reader to decide if they are purposefully being mislead or if this is a simple omission for clarity sake.</p>
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		<title>By: millie fink</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1282012</link>
		<dc:creator>millie fink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1282012</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;even on college campuses where such thinking runs counter to the norm.&lt;/i&gt;

Yeah, they&#039;re real rebels, those radical, Libertarian-minded college kids.

(¬_¬)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>even on college campuses where such thinking runs counter to the norm.</i></p>
<p>Yeah, they&#8217;re real rebels, those radical, Libertarian-minded college kids.</p>
<p>(¬_¬)</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Balling</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1281952</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Balling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1281952</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve worked and taken classes on college campuses were there were, in fact, completely student organized conservative and libertarian organizations. And one of these colleges I&#039;m speaking of is probably in the &quot;top 5 most liberal of liberal arts&quot; schools you would think of. 

It is possible for students to reach opinions other than the ones we might hold dear, even on college campuses where such thinking runs counter to the norm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve worked and taken classes on college campuses were there were, in fact, completely student organized conservative and libertarian organizations. And one of these colleges I&#8217;m speaking of is probably in the &#8220;top 5 most liberal of liberal arts&#8221; schools you would think of. </p>
<p>It is possible for students to reach opinions other than the ones we might hold dear, even on college campuses where such thinking runs counter to the norm.</p>
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		<title>By: millie fink</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1281948</link>
		<dc:creator>millie fink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1281948</guid>
		<description>Do you work for reason.com?

I&#039;ve been wondering just who funds it. Not that its paid promoters would know.

I was on a campus the other day where some sidewalk theater was going on. Anti-security-state theater, wherein youngish people acted out an extreme airport scenario (a guy got his book taken away). &quot;Do you want the government interfering in your life like this?!&quot; A few students who&#039;d stopped to look shook their heads no, then took the offered pamphlets. Turns out the agitprop was put on by a Libertarian group. A completely student-run Libertarian group? I doubt it.

The tentacles of the Koch Bros. and their ilk are long, subtle, and slimy promoters of the supposed Virtues of Selfishness. They sure do get around a lot these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you work for reason.com?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been wondering just who funds it. Not that its paid promoters would know.</p>
<p>I was on a campus the other day where some sidewalk theater was going on. Anti-security-state theater, wherein youngish people acted out an extreme airport scenario (a guy got his book taken away). &#8220;Do you want the government interfering in your life like this?!&#8221; A few students who&#8217;d stopped to look shook their heads no, then took the offered pamphlets. Turns out the agitprop was put on by a Libertarian group. A completely student-run Libertarian group? I doubt it.</p>
<p>The tentacles of the Koch Bros. and their ilk are long, subtle, and slimy promoters of the supposed Virtues of Selfishness. They sure do get around a lot these days.</p>
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		<title>By: Layne</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1281935</link>
		<dc:creator>Layne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1281935</guid>
		<description>In other news - the NYT itself engages in the same kinds of practices that they&#039;re busy smearing the Lauder family over:
http://reason.com/archives/2011/11/28/the-new-york-times-hypocrisy-on-tax-loop

Hypocrisy - how does it work? 
So the big revelation churned up by all this investigative journalism is that people like to keep their own money and will use most legal means necessary to keep it from being hoovered up by the taxman?

To the barricades!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In other news &#8211; the NYT itself engages in the same kinds of practices that they&#8217;re busy smearing the Lauder family over:<br />
<a href="http://reason.com/archives/2011/11/28/the-new-york-times-hypocrisy-on-tax-loop" rel="nofollow">http://reason.com/archives/2011/11/28/the-new-york-times-hypocrisy-on-tax-loop</a></p>
<p>Hypocrisy &#8211; how does it work? <br />
So the big revelation churned up by all this investigative journalism is that people like to keep their own money and will use most legal means necessary to keep it from being hoovered up by the taxman?</p>
<p>To the barricades!</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1281933</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1281933</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Like all those car companies selling cars they haven&#039;t built. Imagine selling something that doesn&#039;t exist.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Where do you live that people buy imaginary cars?  Here in the US of A, we mosey on down to the dealership and drive one off the lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Like all those car companies selling cars they haven&#8217;t built. Imagine selling something that doesn&#8217;t exist.</p></blockquote>
<p>Where do you live that people buy imaginary cars?  Here in the US of A, we mosey on down to the dealership and drive one off the lot.</p>
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		<title>By: LordBlagger</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1281894</link>
		<dc:creator>LordBlagger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1281894</guid>
		<description>Like all those car companies selling cars they haven&#039;t built. Imagine selling something that doesn&#039;t exist. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like all those car companies selling cars they haven&#8217;t built. Imagine selling something that doesn&#8217;t exist. </p>
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		<title>By: frankiestout</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1281748</link>
		<dc:creator>frankiestout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1281748</guid>
		<description>&quot;Third, donating to your own charity is also not illegal nor immoral. But it is a great idea! 
Thanks!&quot;

Read up on the ways that trust management fees are used by wealthy individuals to manipulate their taxable income. A lot of this so-called &quot;charity&quot; has exactly one beneficiary: the rich person who contributed the money in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Third, donating to your own charity is also not illegal nor immoral. But it is a great idea!<br />
Thanks!&#8221;</p>
<p>Read up on the ways that trust management fees are used by wealthy individuals to manipulate their taxable income. A lot of this so-called &#8220;charity&#8221; has exactly one beneficiary: the rich person who contributed the money in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: frankiestout</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1281743</link>
		<dc:creator>frankiestout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1281743</guid>
		<description>There is still a modicum of benefit to shorting against the box. See here:
http://www.thestreet.com/story/769361/hedging-technique-opens-a-pandoras-box-of-tax-concerns.html

&quot;You first must close out your short position by the 30th day after the end of the tax year in which the transaction occurred, says Tesser. For most investors, this would be Jan. 30 of the following year. But for those of you whose tax year ends on, say, June 30, you&#039;d have to close the position by July 30.  Then, beginning on the day the short position is closed, you must hold the original long position for at least another 60 days. This must be a &quot;hold naked&quot; position for the entire 60 days. That means you can&#039;t use options to reduce your risk on these shares in any other way.  So if you sell short against 
the box in January, you can hedge yourself for nearly 13 months, maximum, as long as you&#039;re willing to be unhedged for another 60 days after that.&quot;

Speaking as a former margin clerk, you still see the occasional short against the box transaction from someone who wants to take advantage of the now sharply decreased tax loophole it creates. From what I could tell, most of the people who short against the box nowadays are not quite as clever as they think they are, and the short against the box is often part of a larger scheme of manipulations that may or may not work as intended. But, as we all know, the Cheney administration severely cut funding for IRS enforcement, and FINRA is considerably more toothless than its constituent agencies used to be. So you might just get away with it (whatever &quot;it&quot; is), if you&#039;ve got a decent tax lawyer &amp; accountant.     </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is still a modicum of benefit to shorting against the box. See here:<br />
<a href="http://www.thestreet.com/story/769361/hedging-technique-opens-a-pandoras-box-of-tax-concerns.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.thestreet.com/story/769361/hedging-technique-opens-a-pandoras-box-of-tax-concerns.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;You first must close out your short position by the 30th day after the end of the tax year in which the transaction occurred, says Tesser. For most investors, this would be Jan. 30 of the following year. But for those of you whose tax year ends on, say, June 30, you&#8217;d have to close the position by July 30.  Then, beginning on the day the short position is closed, you must hold the original long position for at least another 60 days. This must be a &#8220;hold naked&#8221; position for the entire 60 days. That means you can&#8217;t use options to reduce your risk on these shares in any other way.  So if you sell short against<br />
the box in January, you can hedge yourself for nearly 13 months, maximum, as long as you&#8217;re willing to be unhedged for another 60 days after that.&#8221;</p>
<p>Speaking as a former margin clerk, you still see the occasional short against the box transaction from someone who wants to take advantage of the now sharply decreased tax loophole it creates. From what I could tell, most of the people who short against the box nowadays are not quite as clever as they think they are, and the short against the box is often part of a larger scheme of manipulations that may or may not work as intended. But, as we all know, the Cheney administration severely cut funding for IRS enforcement, and FINRA is considerably more toothless than its constituent agencies used to be. So you might just get away with it (whatever &#8220;it&#8221; is), if you&#8217;ve got a decent tax lawyer &amp; accountant.     </p>
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		<title>By: curveclimber</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1281722</link>
		<dc:creator>curveclimber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1281722</guid>
		<description>@ Derek: You seem quite adamant that this is nothing out of the ordinary.   My question to you is, then why would they go to all this trouble?  Somehow this is giving them an advantage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Derek: You seem quite adamant that this is nothing out of the ordinary.   My question to you is, then why would they go to all this trouble?  Somehow this is giving them an advantage.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Balling</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1281701</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Balling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1281701</guid>
		<description>But, as already pointed out elsewhere, &quot;shorting against the box&quot; hasn&#039;t been available as an investment practice since 1997.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But, as already pointed out elsewhere, &#8220;shorting against the box&#8221; hasn&#8217;t been available as an investment practice since 1997.</p>
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		<title>By: Kurt</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/11/28/how-the-tax-code-works-for-bil.html#comment-1281698</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=131837#comment-1281698</guid>
		<description>The problem isn&#039;t shorting, it&#039;s &quot;shorting against the box&quot; -- shorting stocks that they already owned.

Let&#039;s say Mr. L owns 50,000,000 shares of company E.  If he sells 12M shares, he&#039;ll owe capital gains taxes on the sale.  If instead, he borrows 12M shares from a relative, and sells those (thus shorting the stock), he doesn&#039;t owe capital gains taxes (they weren&#039;t his shares he sold, they were the borrowed shares), and if the price goes down, he can cover the short from the market.  If on the other hand, the price goes up, he can cover the short from his own stocks.  The problem is even though this later case is generally identical to if he had sold his own shares (he is down 12M shares, for which he was paid), it was not being taxed in the same manner as a sale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem isn&#8217;t shorting, it&#8217;s &#8220;shorting against the box&#8221; &#8212; shorting stocks that they already owned.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s say Mr. L owns 50,000,000 shares of company E.  If he sells 12M shares, he&#8217;ll owe capital gains taxes on the sale.  If instead, he borrows 12M shares from a relative, and sells those (thus shorting the stock), he doesn&#8217;t owe capital gains taxes (they weren&#8217;t his shares he sold, they were the borrowed shares), and if the price goes down, he can cover the short from the market.  If on the other hand, the price goes up, he can cover the short from his own stocks.  The problem is even though this later case is generally identical to if he had sold his own shares (he is down 12M shares, for which he was paid), it was not being taxed in the same manner as a sale.</p>
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