Police hand- and ankle-cuff 5-year-old, charge him with battery on a police officer

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119 Responses to “Police hand- and ankle-cuff 5-year-old, charge him with battery on a police officer”

  1. monopole says:

    Why are we coddling these juvenile delinquents!  Spare the Pepper Spray/Taser spoil the child.  

  2. travtastic says:

    Well, he didn’t waterboard him. This is America.

  3. Itsumishi says:

    God bless America and the fine officers that keep the country safe.

    • Ianto_Jones says:

      Amen, brother.  And let me add a small prayer, “O LORD, please protect us from the 5 year-olds and the havoc they hath wrought, with zip ties, and pepper spray, and the cleansing holy fire of Taser, Inc.  IN CHRIST’S NAME, AMEN”  Amen, amen.  Amen.  I love men.

  4. Palomino says:

    Something’s wrong in California:

    “Gray says the school, Rio Calaveras Elementary of Stockton, wanted to change that behavior by having Michael meet with a school police officer.”

    Why does Stockton California elementary schools need  “School Police Officers”?

    • telechi says:

      I may be wrong about this, but I’m pretty sure many districts appoint an “eduational liason” of sorts from their police force to be the “police representative” to the school system?

    • John Vance says:

      Not sure about other places, but my high school (suburban Atlanta) and all other high schools in the district had small police forces. Not just security guys; actual uniformed officers who could and would arrest your ass more or less with impunity, since the popular interpretation of the law by school districts is that you are a non-person until you turn 18.

  5. hassenpfeffer says:

    Anyone who wants to be a cop should be automatically disqualified. Same for politicians.

    • Morkl says:

      Indeed. Douglas Adams got it right, as he so often did.

    • Neil Austin says:

      I think it was in Imperial Earth by Arthur C Clarke that the system had been changed so that the President of the US was essentially drafted from a pool of qualified candidates, disqualified if they showed any interest in the position, and released early for good behavior. THAT’s how it should work. Give power to people who don’t want it, and will work diligently to rid themselves of the responsibility.

  6. Jack Holmes says:

    Between this and SOPA, I feel like Transmetropolitan has accurately prepared me for America’s future.

  7. mellowknees says:

    WTF is the cop doing putting his hand over the kid’s hand?  That’s something you do when you’re on a date, not when you’re trying to “scare” a kid “straight”.

    How else is a 5 yo who doesn’t want some strange man touching on him supposed to react?

  8. oldtaku says:

    The whole handcuffing thing and taking him to a psych hospital after their brilliant scared straight plan failed is asinine, but the rest of the article describes an out of control little monster.  His Mother is like the owner of those vicious little dogs who continually assures you he’s such a sweet little darling, such a loving little boy, while it’s drawing blood on your calves.

    • Dr_Wadd says:

      When I was that age in the UK education system there were plenty of fights at school, playground scuffles are par for the course with children of that age.  But, most kids grow out of that behaviour relatively quickly, a few don’t, but from what I read in the original article, I can’t be convinced that he is the monster you see.

      However, that’s largely irrelevant, because there’s no doubt that this kid had been diagnosed with ADHD, and that the school district had fallen way short in its responsibilities to this child. I don’t see this as poor discipline as such, more of an unhandled condition that is preventing the child showing any sort of discipline in the first instance. So I can reconcile the mother’s comments that he’s a generally good kid while still having behavioural issues.

      • Ianto_Jones says:

        I agree with you. But unfortunately in the US we have a major problem with authoritarian psychopaths who think the best way to handle anyone with a mental illness, regardless of their age, is to beat the crap out of them and/or imprison them (preferably both), rather than treat their medical condition.  Because healthcare is a privilege, not a right, in this country.  And if you have an illness, especially a mental illness, then it is clearly due to a lack of character on your part.

      • oldtaku says:

        ‘Monster’ was probably too strong, mostly from my loathing of little evil dogs. The kid probably does have a genuine problem that causes him to throw furniture at other kids. But the Mom does sound exactly like the owner of any other destructive aggressive pet.

        • Ianto_Jones says:

          Perhaps the little boy is a “monster”.  Perhaps he is highly aggressive.  Perhaps he really does require mental evaluation and medical intervention.  Perhaps his mother is in complete denial about all this.

          Even if all of the above things are 100% true and accurate, there is still literally nothing that can excuse the thug cop’s behavior in this matter.

          • oldtaku says:

            ‘nothing that can excuse the thug cop’s behavior’

            Oh absolutely. I was just taking that as given.  Nobody’s defending the cop in the entire thread, which is fairly unusual just because usually someone has to be contrarian. But when I read the source article the cop’s behavior was only half of the bizarro.

        • Guest says:

          and you sound like the father of such a mother. 

          • oldtaku says:

            ‘and you sound like the father of such a mother.’  This doesn’t even make any sense. Did you accidentally a word or two? Did you typo ‘lol no u’?

        • Sekino says:

          You have very little empathy for this mother. The article states that she has been seeking evaluations to put her special-needs child in better environment, but the district is too stingy to help her.

          I’m pretty sure that, like most parents, she expected having a normal little child with regular development, but that’s not how it worked out. I can imagine that her days can get extremely stressful caring for a child with developmental issues. There are probably moments when she does think of him as a monster and she’s probably devastated by guilt whenever that happens because she sees his good days, that he is a little human being, a little being she clearly loves and whom depends on her.  It sounds like she has precious few ressources and a very challenging situation to deal with. I bet not many people are vouching for this kid. I, for one, can forgive his own mother for doing so.

          Would you have a higher opinion of her if she publicly dismissed him as a loathsome little troll and sent him back to the pound? Left him in a crate? What do you think her options are?

          • oldtaku says:

            I’m not blaming her here. As the mother, she has very little choice. I expect her to defend him to the hilt even if he eventually ends up murdering a family of eight in the course of a home invasion robbery, saying he’s a good boy and wouldn’t do that.

            What I said was that it’s amusingly similar to what the owners of vicious little dogs say. I did stupidly bias it by saying ‘Monster’ in the first post and that’s my fault, and my personal bias towards evil little dogs more than my bias towards children.

            So while I can legitimately be accused of a hate-on for nervous little yappy hate machines (mea culpa), apparently I squarely hit the nerves of a lot parents of children who don’t appreciate the comparison.

            You obviously feel very strongly about this, and so do a lot of other people – society and the law allow only condemnation for the Mother in a situation like this. So I apologize for stepping on some emotional landmines when my real target was inbred canines.

          • wes harris says:

            Money is money, I’d say the district was being fiscally responsible with their monetary allocations towards a possible future ward of the state.

    • Sean McKibbon says:

      All 5 year olds have temper tantrums from time to time.

      • oldtaku says:

        Even the mother isn’t claiming the kid is a normal five year old. Quite the opposite. She’s asking he get special care.

        And not for you, but apparently I have to keep saying this since otherwise someone will take it as given, none of it justifies what the cop did.

      • Barton Phillips says:

        Give the kids enough Ritalin and they don’t have temper tantrums:)

    • Lis Mitchell says:

       My brother behaved much the same way at his age. It’s pretty standard for ADHD children, and the proper way to deal with it is to do monitoring and get behavioural therapy and work through the appropriate meds and dosages, something that takes a lot of time and effort. It seems like the mom needed more support than the school system was willing to put in. The cop being brought in is highly inappropriate. (Something similar was tried with my brother as well, but at least that cop had the good sense not to restrain him with zip ties.)

      My brother grew up to be a responsible and productive member of society. He wasn’t a monster–just a little boy who needed a lot of medical attention to deal with his particular mental chemistry–and it took years for that, and years for my family to adjust. A little sympathy for what the mother is dealing with might be in order.

    • KatoKitty says:

      @oldtaku:disqus 

      Read the story at the link. It’s not what you think it is. The child has ADHD and the mother has been begging for help but doesn’t get it because that help costs money. 

    • relawson says:

      I have the exact opposite problem! Everyone thinks my kids are little angles even though, as I say, “yeah, they’re cute on the outside…”

  9. robuluz says:

    Wow. Turns out my kids have been beating the shit out of me for years. Jokes on you suckers, you’re going to jail!

  10. Syn - says:

    but you told me you didnt live in a police state. 

  11. SedanChair says:

    Every cop is a wimp, a bully, or an enabler of the same.

  12. iburl says:

    This answers the question “what do you get when you cross a pussy with a pig?”.

    Meeeoink!

  13. Eark_the_Bunny says:

    The Stockton Unified School District has its own police force complete with a fleet of squad cars.  That is a pretty harsh treatment for a 5 year old.  Stockton is a high crime area but those committing the crimes are much old than five.  The Stockton city police seem to be pretty good but I was never impressed with SUSD cops.

  14. bcsizemo says:

    When we have 200 lb third graders it’s not much a stretch that a 5 year old could out weight the cop.

  15. awjt says:

    Ahh, my home town.  At least they didn’t force the kid to drink wine from a paper bag.

    • Nick Gold says:

      “Ahh, my home town.  At least they didn’t force the kid to drink wine from a paper bag.”

      You know, paper bag wine has really gotten much better over the past few years.

  16. frankiestout says:

    Reading the comments to the original story reaffirms my belief that the 27% crazification factor is becoming the 27% American proto-fascist movement. Seriously, this goes beyond just apologists for abusive cops (although that in itself is despicable enough). We’re living in a society where a significant plurality of people would be happy to help load up the cattle cars with immigrants, blacks, gays, leftists and trade unionists.

    People who find this kind of thing scary or even just problematic should stop and ask themselves where the far right is going to go after they’ve passed all the anti-gay, anti-choice and anti-immigrant legislation. Will that sate them? Or will they want even more? There is already ample evidence that, in times of crisis, many people will support the most brutal, terroristic repression by the state and the corporations. Waterboarding? A-ok. Shooting a black man in the back of the head? No problem. Preemptive mass arrests? They had it coming.

    White, male, middle-class techies: Do you think you’re safe from all this?

    • brerrabbit23 says:

      NO. I AM SUITABLY TERRIFIED.

      feel better?

    • SedanChair says:

      First they came for the five-year-olds, and I said nothing because I wasn’t five…

    • I hope everyone reading this thread will read, re-read and then READ again your comments and then pass them along to everyone they know. You hit the nail right on the head.

    • allen says:

      As a white heterosexual cismale, I do feel less threatened by this than I think I would if I deviated from that profile (we’re kind of famous for the privilege we enjoy), but that doesn’t mean I endorse this state of affairs.  

      I DO think that waiting on the cattle cars is – not hyperbolic- but maybe a little naive.  We’ll just put a huge percentage of our population in jail, cut budgets on jail to the point where they are ridiculously inhumane, and then start advocating the death penalty when the expense of imprisoning our population becomes too much to bear.

      There isn’t going to be a nice convenient signpost marking the transition into true horror, it will happen in comfortable degrees.  We’re good at deceiving ourselves, and I really doubt that we’ll be given a nice clean godwin to react to.

    • Mister44 says:

      Rabble-rouse much?

    • robuluz says:

      White, male, middle-class techies: Do you think you’re safe from all this?

      Of course. I’m a white male age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me.

      http://i.imgur.com/wR9y3.jpg

    • awjt says:

      I wouldn’t say I am safe from it.  But I know I won’t participate*.  

      (*prepares suitcase for trip to Canada)

  17. Ianto_Jones says:

    When are we going to start severely prosecuting and making examples of these psychopathic police scum?  What’s it going to take?  A police thug blowing a restrained 5 year-old’s head off because he felt “threatened”?

  18. BookGuy says:

    So you’ve got a 5-year-old with diagnosed ADHD and behavioral problems, so the solution is a one-on-one with a touchy-feely cop who goes straight for full restraints when threatened?  Seems reasonable to me.

    Also, isn’t 5 considered to be on the young side for an official ADHD diagnosis? I’m not a child psychologist, but most 5-year-olds I know are hyper little goofballs.

    • A reputable psychologist wouldn’t diagnose ADHD until age 8, and in many states, they won’t assign a diagnosis at all until that age. Until then, students only have a ‘learning disability’ or a ‘developmental disability’.

      • aguane says:

        As a reputable psychologist, I’m curious why you think that “a reputable psychologist wouldn’t diagnose ADHD until age 8.” The DSM diagnosis specifies that the symptoms must be present by age 7, and there are ways to differentiate between typical 5 yr old behavior and the behavior of a child with ADHD.

        • Let me quote myself:

          “…in many states, they won’t assign a diagnosis at all until that age. Until then, students only have a ‘learning disability’ or a ‘developmental disability’.”

          This is because reputable psychologists have determined that waiting until a child is age 8 to make a firm diagnosis is a best practice. Do you work with children in schools? I ask because there is a heckuva lot of difference between IDEA and the DSM.

          • santamanwalk says:

            Yes, I have plenty of experience with IDEA – Federal Court, all the way to the US Supreme Court.  IDEA is a joke!

          • Apparently not, or you would know what I am referring to. Federal cases have nothing to do with the best practices developed by various states.

            IDEA only applies to this conversation in that it allows a wide latitude for diagnosis and assistance, which has allowed practicing professionals to give their input into the best practices in different areas, specifically referring to children and schools. This has created a very different atmosphere than what currently surrounds the DSM. If you typically practice outside of the education system, or consult on federal cases, then you may not realize the differences.

            For instance, students can qualify for an IEP or a 503 plan without any formal diagnoses at all. This is a marked difference from practices outside of a school, where psychologists and other professionals are frequently forced to choose a diagnosis in order to keep seeing their patients. (Thanks, insurance companies!)

            Since they are not forced to choose a diagnosis, many states have developed best practices that recommend against doing so until the child is aged 8 or above. There are, as you have stated, ways to differentiate between typical behavior and behavior of a child with special needs, but it’s a whole lot harder to differentiate between a child that has ADHD and a child that has APD or a huge variety of other disorders that all share criteria. Hence, the best practices that recommend waiting for a formal diagnosis and simply stating that a child has a learning disability or a developmental delay.

            Yes, IDEA is a joke in many ways, but this latitude is one of the ways that they absolutely got it right.

          • aguane says:

            I think IDEA has the right idea but the people who are in charge of implementing it are flawed in their reasoning. The attention is placed on money and resources, rather than on the children with disabilities. Like stated in this article, things like “we can’t afford to do what needs to be done” comes into direct conflict with providing what’s best for the child.

            Additionally, because so many of these children have behavioral components that go along with the neurological deficits the people who implement IDEA on the school level frequently think, like many of the posters in this thread, that it’s just a matter of the child not being well disciplined.  As an example, the woman in charge of accommodations for another school district in Stockton (LUSD) stated directly to us in a meeting that she characterizes her child-welfare job as “being in charge of discipline and bad kids” rather than being in charge of making certain that accommodations to provide children with FAPE are in place.

          • Daniel says:

            You’re like a picture-perfect illustration of why I don’t trust the self-appointed priesthood of mental health.

          • aguane says:

            “This is because reputable psychologists have determined that waiting until a child is age 8 to make a firm diagnosis is a best practice. Do you work with children in schools? I ask because there is a heckuva lot of difference between IDEA and the DSM. ”

            You are absolutely right, there is a “heckuva lot of difference” between IDEA and the DSM. One is used for diagnosing and one is to make certain that people who have disabilities, that frequently are first determined by making a diagnosis, are receiving the services that they need. It’s like saying there’s a heckuva lot of difference between an apple and a potato.

            The most recent practice guidelines for ADHD were released in October 2011 by the American Academy of Pediatrics. They specify what’s needed for diagnosing between age 4 and age 18. The previous guidelines specified ages 6 to 12. You can read them here: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/128/5/1007.full

            I’m still wondering where you get this idea that psychologists have determined that waiting until a child is age 8 to make a firm diagnosis is best practice. If you were saying age 6 I could understand, but I’ve not seen anything that states best practices for diagnosing ADHD is age 8. Could you show me something that backs that up?

          • One is used for diagnosing and one is to make certain that people who have disabilities, that frequently are first determined by making a diagnosis, are receiving the services that they need. It’s like saying there’s a heckuva lot of difference between an apple and a potato.

            So you didn’t actually read what I wrote then? Alternatively, you have no experience with this topic.

            You do not need to make a specific diagnosis in order to receive services. We are not discussing a private practice that deals with insurance companies. We are discussing students and IEPs. There are huge differences. These differences come into play because of IDEA, which has different language and definitions than the DSM, meaning they are less like apples and potatoes and more like bell peppers and banana peppers. Again, to be clear, because apparently you do not understand, a student can be referred for evaluation, found eligible, and receive services without anyone -even the evaluators – ever referring to the DSM, based solely on IDEA guidelines.

            The most recent practice guidelines for ADHD were released in October 2011 by the American Academy of Pediatrics. They specify what’s needed for diagnosing between age 4 and age 18. The previous guidelines specified ages 6 to 12. You can read them here: http://pediatrics.aappublicati

            How is this relevant? Again, we’re not discussing a pediatrician referring a child to someone like you. (Assuming that you actually are a mental health professional.) We are discussing school referrals. Physicians don’t generally come into it at all.

            I’m still wondering where you get this idea that psychologists have determined that waiting until a child is age 8 to make a firm diagnosis is best practice.

            I’m still wondering why you keep misquoting me. Again, let me quote myself:

            “…in many states, they won’t assign a diagnosis at all until that age. Until then, students only have a ‘learning disability’ or a ‘developmental disability’. This is because reputable psychologists have determined that waiting until a child is age 8 to make a firm diagnosis is a best practice.”

            You seem to be mistaking ‘many states’ for ‘everyone’ and ‘reputable pyscologists’ for ‘all psychologists everyone, so why wasn’t I informed???’.

            If you were saying age 6 I could understand, but I’ve not seen anything that states best practices for diagnosing ADHD is age 8. Could you show me something that backs that up?

            Is your Google broken? Try ‘best practices’ ‘IEP’ and the names of various states. You’ll come up with sets of best practices for occupational therapy, psychology, speech-language therapy, and many other areas of concern, compiled by various states for use within their schools.

    • Sean McKibbon says:

      Lot’s of 5 year olds act that way. This whole thread shows how unfamiliar some posters are with being a parent,

    • willyboy says:

      Wait, what was the “Christ, what an asshole!” original reference?

    • toxiclight says:

      5 years old isn’t necessarily too young for an ADHD diagnosis…my son was 4 when he was diagnosed. He’s 17 now, and still doesn’t like being casually touched by strangers.

  19. Mari Lwyd says:

    says he placed his hand on Michael’s

    Glad he became a cop. He’s a bit too kinky for priesthood with the zip ties and whatnot.

    (bonus joke: point on the doll where the little boy touched you, Lt. Gordo.)

    • OtherMichael says:

      @amanicdroid, Catholic-pedophile jokes are SO 2010. We’re all about the Penn State Football Coach jokes, now. Please get your insulting, asinine references in order, or “hit the showers.”

      • Mari Lwyd says:

        As far as I know Lt hasn’t molested enough to fill a defensive line, let alone an entire squad so I went with the 50 year standby of Catholic priests.

        I ask of you good sir, “2010? Where is your sense of history?”

      • Daniel says:

        Yeah, the Catholic church would really appreciate it if you ignored their decades-long history of child abuse and child labor and systematic cover-up and obstruction of justice in investigating the same and to concentrate your scorn on people who are actually being held responsible for their actions by the U.S. justice system.  Move along, nothing to see here.

        • Antinous / Moderator says:

          Besides the fact that it was a joke, do you think that football coaches are less likely to be child rapists than priests?

          • Daniel says:

            1. I feel justified in treating jokes about child abuse as if they were not actually jokes.
            2. I said nothing to imply a higher proportion of Catholic priests are child abusers than any other profession.
            3. I specifically cited the decades-long institutional coverup to contrast with the years-long institutional coverup at Penn.
            4. Tu quoque is still a fallacy.

            I seem to be getting on your bad side today, sorry about that.

  20. lostinutah says:

    Well said… Seems like some of us are clamoring for another Uncle Joe or Uncle Adolf to set things straight.

  21. olivia flint says:

    The adultification of (very) young black males in American Schools is appalling. As someone who works in schools, I had a very strong suspicion that Michael was black before I went to the full article. White children do not get treated like this at the same rate as black children. This is often called the Discipline Gap and it is is a very shameful part of the US school system. It is a shame that the article doesn’t call attention to this. 

    • $19428857 says:

      I think when we frame the issue as black kids get one treatment and white kids get a better treatment, we miss something basic and crucial, and that is socio-economic class.

      You are right that black children get disciplined far more than white children, and while I do believe that there is an overt element of race distinction in treatment in at least some cases and subconscious racism in many more (especially when race becomes a trigger for assumptions about socio-economic class) ,  I think that a more telling comparison, that cuts across ethnicity,  is how  children (especially boys) of low socio-economic backgrounds compare against children of higher economic backgrounds. I will admit this is anecdotal, but after 27 years of interacting with children of many ethnic backgrounds and household income levels on professional, personal and parental levels, I see it’s the poor kids, regardless of color, who get the disciplinary spotlight. They have more problems, worse problems, and when it comes to punishment, they get proportionally heavier consequences.  To be fair, the punishers are often not well trained, often “battle fatigued” or are at wits end, and  hemmed-in by school district policies (anyone remember “zero-tolerance?). And school cops just act like cops in general, in other words, they value compliance over common sense.

      My sense is that poor kids have so little, that often the only thing they can call their own is an unwillingness to be pushed around any further, to lose anything else, even if its self-dignity . I immediately think of a boy in my daughter’s second grade class. He was a gorgeous child, and whip smart. Also, he had given up long ago. He was from poor single parent household, lots of siblings; a tumultuous, unfair environment to grow up in. He was always acting out, he was always in trouble, and the severity of the consequences kept mounting. And he would  never, ever comply. I don’t think his own self respect would allow it. When a damaged child like this boy comes in to contact with a person with a badge who will have your compliance or your head it often means. bad things for that child are not far off. Having said all that, the video that is after the link, seems to me to show a fairly normal 5 or 6 year old boy, albeit one with ADHD, who has a loving and involved mother, so I don’t know what to say about his specific case. Maybe just a idiot cop, maybe just a cop with an uncharacteristic bout of bad judgement, maybe the kid was a Tasmanian devil, I don’t know, but I stand by my generalities above, for whatever they are worth.

      • BunnyShank says:

        Consider Sabeletodo, poor black boys deal with overt and covert assumptions that they are less than human, not that they are socioeconomically disadvantaged.

        When we frame his treatment as having to do with socioeconomic class, the crucial point we miss is that the white child contends with “having nothing left to lose”, however the black child contends with being seen as nothing, within any socioeconomic class.

      • olivia flint says:

        I agree it would be interesting to see more data presenting whether or not it is race or poverty that is causing the discipline gap. This sort of question can be analyzed using a regression model if one has access to the right data– and I would love to see the results. One of the tragedies is the intersection of being low SES, black and disabled and how that particular identity faces tremendous challenges. 

        I agree that social class also plays a tremendous role in children’s experience in school–and partially because parents who have equal (or higher) capital than teachers and principals have more power in schools. 

        The reason I wanted to turn this to a conversation about race, is because one of my particular interests is how children who are culturally or linguistically diverse experience the Special Education system– which is of course related to how all kids experience the education system. It turns out that African American, spanish speaking Hispanic, and American Indian kids in California are overrepresented in the IDEA categories of Emotionally Disturbed, Mentally Retarded,and Learning Disabled. These are terrible findings, and perhaps only relevant because I can see how someone who is overly disciplined in a setting might display characteristics that are resistant to learning in that setting. 
         
        It’s not that low SES, black, disabled kids are only ones to get mistreated by schools– just that data suggests they are the most likely ones. 

  22. spacemunky says:

    If the 5-year-olds would just state their demands and work within the system then police wouldn’t be put in the position of using force against them.

  23. demidan says:

    If you can’t handle a five year old without the use of zipties, you shouldn’t be allowed in public let alone carry a badge.

  24. Antinous / Moderator says:

    You know who else was a five year-old boy once?

  25. OldBrownSquirrel says:

    I would think that the staff of the hospital would have a statutory obligation to report the officer’s abuse of a child.

    • Ianto_Jones says:

      Nah the cop just explained that all the bumps and bruises all over the little boy were due to him accidentally bumping his head as he was being put into the back of the cop’s 2-foot tall clown car.

  26. snowmentality says:

    bcsizemo: Irrelevant — even a kid who outweighed the officer would still be shorter and weaker. And not true in this case anyway — watch the linked video. He’s a skinny little kid.

    @oldtaku:disqus : I’m not convinced he’s an “out-of-control little monster.” The article mentions only that he’s been written up for fighting with other students and throwing a chair — but we don’t have any details on those write-ups. We don’t know whether he beat up another kid or fought back when someone tried to beat him up — in a lot of school districts, the two are treated the same. We don’t know whether he threw a chair at someone in anger, intending to hurt them, or threw it during some roughhousing play (or knocked it over and the teacher overreacted — sadly, I’ve known some teachers who would).

    He may not be a quiet, dignified model citizen, but I don’t see any reason to assume he’s a bad kid rather than a good kid who has some growing up to do.

  27. benher says:

    America is a battlefield, didn’t you hear?

  28. youngtrout says:

    If this was my child, I’d be the one in jail right now.

  29. Guest says:

    I hope the officer is arrested for kidnapping and assault, and has his house seized and computer searched.

  30. ghostbear says:

    It might be news to some of you but parents calling the police because their small child won’t behave is a common thing now. I don’t know the particulars of this incident and neither do most of you. The question you really should be asking is why the cops are being called in the first place and why mom or dad won’t take charge of the situation. Cops these days are put in impossible situations and a lot of you people just love to tear them down for it. Of course I know most of you would never be able to handle the situations cops are thrown into these days and would rather just sit on the sidelines and bitch about it.

    • Antinous / Moderator says:

      It might be news to some of you but parents calling the police because their small child won’t behave is a common thing now…Of course I know most of you would never be able to handle the situations cops are thrown into these days and would rather just sit on the sidelines and bitch about it.

      Maybe the police could try something creative like, I don’t know, maybe not going out on unnecessary calls. They should be able to discern whether a five year-old’s tantrum is a police matter.

    • That_Anonymous_Coward says:

      Because the talking head on TV told them that how they were raised made them evil abusers.  That to discipline a child is child abuse, if you do anything more than hand them they toy they want.  It is the states job to make sure there are no molesters on the playground, we have a law so I don’t need to watch my child.  My child is a special snowflake and if you can’t accept him running down the aisle of the store shop elsewhere.  My child will have everything I never had as a child, because my parents were mean and didn’t give me everything I wanted when I wanted it.  I have a child, I am more important than you!  The talk shows cover the report of “Air makes children evil!” but never talks about that report being debunked later, and honestly the parents will not listen – look at the number of parents who still cite the vaccines = autism report that was debunked.  They believe something with no actual studies, and are putting their own children and others at risk to keep them “safe”.

      Parents get mixed messages constantly, it is when they stop trying and just let society raise them that it gets horrible.  If you let the village raise your child, you might be the village idiot.

      In this case it seems we have a mother who knows her child has issues, not seeing all of the reports or evidence can’t judge how much she sees his actions through the mom vision, she has tried to get the help that by law should be available at school to make sure her child gets an education.  The school doesn’t want to spend money to do this, so instead takes a page from the 1970′s and do a remake of “Scared Straight” because that will obviously fix it.  The rest is a comedy of errors that could have been avoided if the budget to help “special needs” children hadn’t been blown on ergonomic chairs for the school board.  I’m playing the odds here but the constant theme of things are bad is to make sure every other employee of the school district takes pay cuts long before any administrator has to think about having their budget touched.

  31. aguane says:

    As the mother of a child with ADHD in Stockon I am appalled but not at all surprised by this happening. Our child doesn’t attend SUSD but we have been fighting with his district for 2 years now for an evaluation and a 504 to be put into place.

  32. eldritch says:

    The officer responsible will get off free. Just like countless other officers who have brutalized citizens for various insufficient reasons.

    In 1946 a police officer took a recently discharged black Army veteran off of a Greyhound bus, beat him until he was blind, arrested and jailed him, and “kindly” offered to help the pain with a drink of alcohol in jail so the medical examiners could testify that the victim was drunk. The veteran was taken before the judge who charged him an exorbitant fine, took what little money the veteran had on him, attempted to have the veteran sign the cheque he had received from the Army as his mustering out pay so that they could take it from him as well, and then placed him back in jail before ultimately having him delivered to a hospital in another town entirely. The veteran, suffering from severe head trauma, permanent blindness, and acute amnesia, was not only ill cared for, but remained out of contact with his family (who he had been traveling to meet on the original bus) for months before he was “found”.

    The case evolved into a national scandal. A lengthy investigation was made involving many major national figures ranging from radio presenter Orson Welles (who brought the case to national attention), NAACP chairman Walter Francis White, Attorney General Tom C. Clark, President Franklin Roosevelt, and even the FBI.

    The veteran was named Isaac Woodard. The officer responsible, Officer Linwood Shull, was eventually found not guilty in a federal court (to which the case was taken when state courts refused to hear it) and served absolutely no sentence, despite overwhelming evidence of wrongdoing, including an outright admission of guilt by Shull.

    Justice in America has been dead for most of the century.

  33. magicdragonfly says:

    Unfortunately, the news story is short on facts, notably, what the kid was doing, and how big he was.
    Having served (as an EMT) numerous involuntary psych papers, I’m very curious to hear the other side of the story. My guess is the kid got hogtied as much out of concern for his own well being as anything else. (How upset will people get if the kid was allowed to kick a brick wall until his foot bled?)
    Besides that, consider that once the zip ties went on the kid’s feet, the officer was stuck carrying the kid (let’s face it, he ain’t walking to the squad car at that point.) That in and of itself is the last thing a cop wants to do if it’s avoidable. Then there’s the paperwork for breaking out the zipties. All the school resource officers I’ve ever met took the position in order to have an easier day, not harder.
    There’s a lot of reporting left to this story. We’ve only heard (at best) one side of the issue.

    • 3William56 says:

      Magicdragonfly, You may well be able to justify cuffing the kid (though I bet if a parent did such a thing they would be up in court on child abuse charges quick sharp), but prosecuting him for battery too? I think not.

      Lucky he wasn’t sitting down calmly in a line with other toddlers, or he’d have been pepper sprayed for good measure.

      Our cops do a tough job, and the vast majority do it well, but bad incidents like this (and the pepper spray guy) have to be weeded out and corrected. The most dangerous thing to come out of these incidents isn’t the incident itself, but the closing of ranks around the rogue officer(s) and/or their superiors irrespective of the merits of the case. It promotes unaccountability in the bad cops, and conflict with the citizenry as a whole, which does not bode well for the future.

  34. santamanwalk says:

    The action taken by the police officer obviously was wrong.  He should have called in a SWAT unit who then should have shot at the child … er baby 70+ times and probably would have at least wounded him prior to taking him to the hospital.  Obviously a 5 year old child … er baby is no match for a trained adult officer of the law whose duty is to serve and protect.  The child … er baby didn’t need his parents there, after all, every 5 year old is solely responsible for his actions under law.  The child … er baby should be locked up with the general population for as long as the law will allow for the child’s … er baby’s unjustified terrible assault and battery of this obviously inferior police officer who was unable to defend himself successfully without binding this menacing, strapping 5 year old child … er baby.  The match was totally lopsided in favor of the child … er baby.

  35. Palomino says:

    This is my mother 2 weeks after pulling her arm away. 

    My mother, an in-home hospice patient,  had accidentally pressed her emergency button. 911 arrived and my mother told them it was an accident. In this particular county in Arizona, if a patient calls 911 and refuses to go, or it’s a false alarm, the police are called to confirm the situation. A very young rookie reached for my mother’s lighter while she had it in her hand trying to light a cigarette.  My mother pulled  her hand away from the cop’s reach. He reported that he felt threatened and thought she was “winding up to hit me”. The 911 crew ended up having to rescue my mother and refused to let the cops arrest her and take her to jail, she was in the hospital for a week. My mom was a 75 y.o. dying from cancer. She weighed 90 lbs, was very weak from internal bleeding too.  One  hip and one  rotator cuff was  permanently damaged, the remaining 6 months of her life was lived with this additional, unneeded pain. The p0lice captain came into the E.R.  and spoke with her in private. She never told anybody what he said and she didn’t talk about it after that until just before she died. 

    The only thing she ever said about it was “I thought he wanted to light my cigarette for me. I pulled my hand away because I wanted to light it myself, I wanted to prove I wasn’t that helpless.”

  36. mak1982 says:

    Thanks for making this point. It was my first thought as well. First off, a child with ADHD doesn’t need to be scared straight, he needs strategies and tools, and perhaps medication (I’m on the fence on that one, but that’s not the point). Secondly, as you mention, young black boys get treated disproportionately as criminals when they misbehave, whereas white kids who misbehave get treated as kids who have misbehaved.

    edit: in reply to olivia flint

  37. Hans says:

    The police officer should be held liable for child abuse.  If any parent did this, it would be a call to CPS. And CPS is not likely to listen to those stories about temper tantrums to excuse using zip ties. It is plain and simple abuse, and should be prosecuted accordingly.

  38. TheMudshark says:

    This must be a proud day to be an American police officer. They have a lot of proud days these days.

  39. Amy Schoofs-Rahne says:

    I’m don’t think this is discussed above but a very violent child is actually pretty terrifying and capable of doing serious harm to themselves and others. It is nothing like a temper tantrum. I am familiar with an extremely violent child who has had similar treatment to this boy because there was no other way to handle her.  I don’t know if it was warranted in this case but it is not outside the realm of  possibility that it was not an over reaction by the police person.

  40. sean says:

    The cop said, “the boy pushed my hand away in a batting motion, pushed papers off the table, and kicked me in the right knee. I looked for my pepper spray but couldn’t find it, and I was out of bullets, so I had no choice but to zip-tie the perpetrator.”

  41. ScytheNoire says:

    Police are out of control all over the world. They seem to feel that they are above the law. It’s just disgusting. It’s time for the people to take back Democracy. Enough of this police abuse.

  42. If this is battery on a police officer then him placing his hand on the child’s without cause in the first place is most definitely assault.

  43. bawhamper says:

    Jesus, these stories just keep coming. Are only psychos, mental defectives and nazis permitted to join the police in America these days?

  44. D Wyatt says:

    Average Americans IQ=105
    Average American Cops IQ=95
    Average American Detectives IQ=120

    America has only 5% of the WORLDS population but it has a whopping 25% of the WORLDS PRISONERS.   1 out of 4 people on earth in prison are AMERICAN.

    Stand up against the recent bill, Military action on civil soil is clearly against everything America used to stand for….

  45. relawson says:

    doh!   Yes, acute angles with obtuse attitudes :)

    – oops meant to reply to Andrew Molloy

  46. Lobster says:

    Occupy Recess.

  47. Manny says:

    Geez, my then-two-YO son broke my nose with a head butt. I hate to think what the po-po would have done to him over that.

  48. Ok- I’ll acknowledge that we are only hearing part of the story.

    I completely fail to see how a scared five year old child throwing a temper tantrum and striking out physically would be a surprise (ADHD or not), given the situation, let alone grounds for tying him up and sending him off to the hospital!

    Furthermore- if you have a child that age, and you have serious concerns about their ability to behave, isn’t it time for a counselor or mental health professional to come and assess the kid and/or offer them some coping strategies, instead of a police officer? I know that these pros cost money- but so do police.

  49. mung0 says:

    Sadly, and I’m not American, I knew before following the link to the original report the child treated in this disgusting way would be black. What an indictment for your country.

    And to those above saying this is an out-of-control little boy, nobody with any care for or knowledge of child development and education would think the police hadn’t behaved in a brutally, stupidly, criminally counter-productive asinine way.

  50. Arys says:

    What kind of cop is “threatened” by a five-year-old kid? I mean… he’s five, he’s hardly likely to be able to beat you up for your donut money, right?

    Or… if a five-year-old can take you, you have bigger problems and probably shouldn’t be serving the public.

  51. Ipo says:

    I feel far less threatened by violent 5 year olds than by police officers that teach preschoolers that they live in a police state.  

  52. rollerskater says:

    i, too, had to click on the link to confirm what i assumed was the case: that the child was black.

  53. Sgt Dave R says:

    As a 25-year veteran retired police officer, father, step-parent, and grandfather, I believe that all of the adults involved with this child– the parents, the teachers, the school principal and the police officer–failed him in various ways. Obviously, most of this story is not reported due to space limitations (it takes minutes to write down what happened in seconds), but, based on the story:

    1) My children and grandchildren were all taught that no strangers were allowed to touch them for any reason, unless a parent or grandparent was present. I was a cop for most of my children’s childhoods, and we still taught them that people in uniform weren’t any more trustworthy than anyone else. On the other hand, they were also convinced that the punishment they would receive at home was going to be worse than anything the school could provide.

    2) In my state, a child under the age of 7 is legally deemed to be physically, mentally, and psychologically incapable of forming the INTENT to commit a crime. Intent is a vital component of any crime and, if someone is to be arrested, intent must be there.

    3) In my state, if a juvenile has ANY type of interaction with the police, the parents or guardians MUST be notified prior to doing more than detaining the child. Generally, unless the child is in danger of injuring himself or others, physical restraints are not used.

    4) The parents, whether birth parents or step-parents (the article is not clear as to the existence of step-parents), apparently failed to teach the child the basics of public decorum. Even children with ADD, ADHD, Autism, or any other psychological disturbance can learn the basic difference between right and wrong. Expecting a 5 year old to always make the correct choice is unrealistic in the extreme, especially since most adults don’t always make the best choices.

    5) It appears to me that the teachers and school principal failed to provide an atmosphere conducive to learning. There is a reasonable expectation, when I send my child to school, that the school will provide the opportunity for the child to learn in whatever manner the child requires. As far as the whole fighting thing, I’ve watched hundreds of sporting events, especially football, and it’s usually the guy who throws the second punch who gets caught. That’s the reason that both participants get punished. Schools don’t use reason and judgement, they use “zero-tolerance”. This allegedly makes decisions easier, but it really teaches the child that, no matter what he or she does, someone can arbitrarily decide the action was wrong, often long after the child has forgotten the initial incident.

    6) Finally, the officer failed in several ways. First. he is at a level of experience and rank where he should have had much better judgement. His rank indicates that he is one of the officers that the department trusts to make command decisions, but this incident shows that he may not have the judgement that is required for his position. He must be aware, if California is like most states, that a 5 year old cannot, by definition, commit any crime.

    I don’t think this was handled satisfactorily at any level. The child was being a child and should have been treated accordingly, not terrorized and kidnapped. If a parent had done what this officer did, the parent would currently be in jail awaiting trial for child abuse, but apparently using terror in place of discipline is the norm in California schools.

    @SedanChair (at 5:12 PM on 11/29/11)–That’s not entirely true, it just seems that way because, unless you regularly interact with cops, you only hear about the bad ones.

    @OldBrownSquirrel (at 6:17 on 11/29/11)–They do have a statutory duty, but many failures to report have been documented over the last few years.
    Nothing can ever excuse this officer’s lack of judgement and abusive acts. This child will never see the police in the same way again. When I started my career, the standard was how much publc service we could provide. Now, it seems, the standard is moving toward the police state. It used to be that unless something was specifically forbidden, then it was allowed. Now we are moving toward a time when unless something is specifically allowed, then it is forbidden. That is the definition of a police state, not the land of the free and the home of the brave. That’s not a place I want to be.

    @Palomino (at 9:37 PM on 11/29/11)–So, if the parents do it, it’s a crime, but if the cops do it, it’s standard procedure? God, how much more of a double standard can you have?

    @bawhamper (at 4:38 AM on 11/30/11)–No. It just seems that way because they look and act just like everybody else until the time when they don’t. Many people who were actively recruited for employment in my department turned out to be less than professional (read: a**es with no redeeming value). Most were eased out or moved to a position where they couldn’t do any damage but, occasionally, one of hem would screw up in some spectacular way and the’r actions reflected badly on all of the other employees in the department.

  54. aguane says:

    @Rose M. Welch (the reply button doesn’t seem to want to show up, which may be
    a sign that I shouldn’t post this but here it goes anyway.)

    “So you didn’t actually read what I wrote then? Alternatively, you have no
    experience with this topic.”

    I read what you wrote, and if you read my other comments in this thread you would see that I have a lot of experience as a parent in Stockton (where this story took place) fighting with the school district for over two years to get a 504 (not a 503) accommodation in place. So yes, I do have experience from both the side of a psychologist and from the side of a parent who wants the best for her child. I see from your profile that you home school your children, so I’m guessing that your experience with this is somewhat less.

    “You do not need to make a specific diagnosis in order to receive services. We are not discussing a private practice that deals with insurance companies. We are discussing students and IEPs. There are huge differences. These differences come into play because of IDEA, which has different language and definitions than the DSM, meaning they are less like apples and potatoes and more like bell peppers and banana peppers. Again, to be clear, because apparently you do not understand, a student can be referred for evaluation, found eligible, and receive services
    without anyone -even the evaluators – ever referring to the DSM, based solely on IDEA guidelines.”

    You do not need a diagnosis to REQUEST services, you do need one to receive services. That’s the point of the evaluation, whether they use the DSM or ICD to state the ultimate diagnosis (depending on the nature of the disability), an evaluation does typically have a diagnosis attached to it.

    “How is this relevant? Again, we’re not discussing a pediatrician referring a child to someone like you. (Assuming that you actually are a mental health professional.) We are discussing school referrals. Physicians don’t generally come into it at all.”

    You are the one who brought up “best practices” where do you think those best practices originate? The fact that you don’t think physicians come into the referral process shows how little you actually know about this process. My child’s physician has been involved in
    every step with his school.

    “Is your Google broken? Try ‘best practices’ ‘IEP’ and the names of various states. You’ll come up with sets of best practices for occupational therapy, psychology, speech-language therapy, and many other areas of concern, compiled by various states for use within their schools.”

    I did that when I found the article I cited previously that you deem irrelevant based on the fact that it didn’t match with what you were saying. Hence, why I asked if you could point me toward something. However, given that you went the “is your google broken route” I take it you couldn’t find anything either?

    The sad thing is that this article isn’t about what age you diagnose a child with ADHD. It’s about the utter failure of the school to help a child who already had the diagnosis based on the fact that they didn’t want to pay for services and thought that they could use a police officer to scare away his neurological problems.

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