Comments on: 3.8M children in the UK don't own a book http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sun, 19 May 2013 03:18:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: writtenworld http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1289302 writtenworld Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:50:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1289302 Rather than criticise the powers that be blaming parents and denouncing a disenfranchised youth why don't we start to engage children in their own habitat. Living by the motto "fish where the fishes are". Yes, children are playing more games and interacting online but why this has to be a negative experience is something that we, as mentors, are reinforcing. Using technology and games to stimulate learning is prevalent. Nothing will replace the book but in this era of technology there are other means to provide teaching and aid literacy. Rather than criticise the powers that be blaming parents and denouncing a disenfranchised youth why don’t we start to engage children in their own habitat. Living by the motto “fish where the fishes are”. Yes, children are playing more games and interacting online but why this has to be a negative experience is something that we, as mentors, are reinforcing. Using technology and games to stimulate learning is prevalent. Nothing will replace the book but in this era of technology there are other means to provide teaching and aid literacy.

]]> By: julanna hennessy http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288538 julanna hennessy Tue, 06 Dec 2011 19:13:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288538 We owned maybe half a dozen books when I was a kid, we just used the local and school library heavily. The problem with that idea is England is cutting libraries drastically. We owned maybe half a dozen books when I was a kid, we just used the local and school library heavily. The problem with that idea is England is cutting libraries drastically.

]]> By: Tom Hiles http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288224 Tom Hiles Tue, 06 Dec 2011 11:55:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288224 You're making a lot of incorrect assumptions that show that, again, you don't know what some people's lives are like. And yes, I am talking about the UK. What about if you live in the middle of an estate with only a pub and a convenience shop, miles from a major shopping street , and travelling to one would cost £3 in bus fare, which is about 5% of your weekly income from which you need to feed and cloth X number of children and pay all the other bills? I'm not saying that there aren't parents who could try harder to get their children reading, but these are the incredible circumstances for many people. You’re making a lot of incorrect assumptions that show that, again, you don’t know what some people’s lives are like. And yes, I am talking about the UK.

What about if you live in the middle of an estate with only a pub and a convenience shop, miles from a major shopping street , and travelling to one would cost £3 in bus fare, which is about 5% of your weekly income from which you need to feed and cloth X number of children and pay all the other bills? I’m not saying that there aren’t parents who could try harder to get their children reading, but these are the incredible circumstances for many people.

]]> By: eldritch http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288216 eldritch Tue, 06 Dec 2011 11:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288216 Well for one thing, before the 1950s there wasn't really much of a youth culture to speak of anywhere. Also, there were the world wars, in which young people were a little too busy dealing with the horrors of mass scale human cruelty to be terribly disenfranchized, and before THAT, child labor was still legal. Well for one thing, before the 1950s there wasn’t really much of a youth culture to speak of anywhere.

Also, there were the world wars, in which young people were a little too busy dealing with the horrors of mass scale human cruelty to be terribly disenfranchized, and before THAT, child labor was still legal.

]]> By: AdrianJMartin http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288204 AdrianJMartin Tue, 06 Dec 2011 09:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288204 I work with adults who claim not to have read a book since leaving school...I don't believe these children are picking up digital copies or reading on-line. They're watching DVDs or playing games. Not that I mind that, I wish they'd read as well. It saddens me greatly that children are not learning to read as a top priority, nothing else should matter until the child can competently read a book.  I work with adults who claim not to have read a book since leaving school…I don’t believe these children are picking up digital copies or reading on-line. They’re watching DVDs or playing games. Not that I mind that, I wish they’d read as well. It saddens me greatly that children are not learning to read as a top priority, nothing else should matter until the child can competently read a book. 

]]> By: AdrianJMartin http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288202 AdrianJMartin Tue, 06 Dec 2011 09:36:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288202 I work with adults who claim not to have read a book since leaving school...I don't believe these children are picking up digital copies or reading on-line. They're watching DVDs or playing games. Not that I mind that, I wish they'd read as well. It saddens me greatly that children are not learning to read as a top priority, nothing else should matter until the child can competently read a book.  I work with adults who claim not to have read a book since leaving school…I don’t believe these children are picking up digital copies or reading on-line. They’re watching DVDs or playing games. Not that I mind that, I wish they’d read as well. It saddens me greatly that children are not learning to read as a top priority, nothing else should matter until the child can competently read a book. 

]]> By: StaneStane http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288196 StaneStane Tue, 06 Dec 2011 09:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288196 Not surprising. UK society is incredibly stratified, separated in at least two or three cast like layers. Bottom third is (for multiple reasons) engulfed in a kind of sub-culture which finds reading books alien to them. Not surprising. UK society is incredibly stratified, separated in at least two or three cast like layers. Bottom third is (for multiple reasons) engulfed in a kind of sub-culture which finds reading books alien to them.

]]> By: UrbanUndead http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288191 UrbanUndead Tue, 06 Dec 2011 08:21:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288191 I have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that perhaps the well-scrubbed, apple-cheeked, iPad toting youngsters you're envisioning aren't the hollow-eyed, Dickensian urchins this article is referencing I have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that perhaps the well-scrubbed, apple-cheeked, iPad toting youngsters you’re envisioning aren’t the hollow-eyed, Dickensian urchins this article is referencing

]]> By: UrbanUndead http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288187 UrbanUndead Tue, 06 Dec 2011 08:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288187 On the bright side, at least IRL they aren't crudely rendered in wireform ;D On the bright side, at least IRL they aren’t crudely rendered in wireform ;D

]]> By: retepslluerb http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288185 retepslluerb Tue, 06 Dec 2011 08:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288185 Actual publishing practice in the 18th and 19th century seems to run contrary to your claim. When I look at old collections,  I see thousands of books clearly intended for use by average families.  Actual publishing practice in the 18th and 19th century seems to run contrary to your claim. When I look at old collections,  I see thousands of books clearly intended for use by average families. 

]]> By: Danny Smith http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288173 Danny Smith Tue, 06 Dec 2011 06:51:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288173 Englishman here, doubting most are deprived. hell im 23, and most of the friends my age dont own- and have never owned a single book, ebook or even read a pdf! They look at the 1000+ pages stephen king or hp lovecraft books i own with malign disgust. Because thats how it is in modern england. Reading books is still seen as 'wot them swots do innit?' and reading, like education is seen as something to be treated with derision and scorn. As though you 'fink u r betta than us?' for going to the trouble of learning, which is something that instills deep shame in your average english family nowadays. Because "what would the neighbours say"? and it is a godamn shame. Englishman here, doubting most are deprived. hell im 23, and most of the friends my age dont own- and have never owned a single book, ebook or even read a pdf!

They look at the 1000+ pages stephen king or hp lovecraft books i own with malign disgust. Because thats how it is in modern england.

Reading books is still seen as ‘wot them swots do innit?’ and reading, like education is seen as something to be treated with derision and scorn. As though you ‘fink u r betta than us?’ for going to the trouble of learning, which is something that instills deep shame in your average english family nowadays.
Because “what would the neighbours say”?

and it is a godamn shame.

]]> By: Dan Mac http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288169 Dan Mac Tue, 06 Dec 2011 06:27:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288169 I would think the notion of having books at home is a  sentimental old paradigm from cosy homes. Some kids grow up in the maelstrom where having anything of their own is an exception.If kids want to read they will find stuff. Comics, newspapers, the Sunday Church Bulletin, on their phones, the magazines at the checkout etc. A bigger issue, I think, is the loss of the  notion of a book, wherein the reader is a willing captive as the author carries one through all the nooks and crannies of  a long plot with characters and ideas. This has been replaced by the "stream" of never ending pop culture stories and character driven news, reinforced by magazines and the web. All are easily consumed and often, have as much  brain nutrition as fast food has for your stomach. Tweens know the Pope wears Prada. Poor kids read Harry Potter, but they probably have different strategies for getting and reading it, without owning  and holding it. There is no shortage of torrents for books. I have  a teenage girl, and TL;DR is a badge of honour with many of her suburban friends. Long involved ideas that you have to read are boring or seen as boring, and they run as fast from critical thought as from a pregnant 20 year old. It might be catching. I would think the notion of having books at home is a  sentimental old paradigm from cosy homes. Some kids grow up in the maelstrom where having anything of their own is an exception.If kids want to read they will find stuff. Comics, newspapers, the Sunday Church Bulletin, on their phones, the magazines at the checkout etc. A bigger issue, I think, is the loss of the  notion of a book, wherein the reader is a willing captive as the author carries one through all the nooks and crannies of  a long plot with characters and ideas. This has been replaced by the “stream” of never ending pop culture stories and character driven news, reinforced by magazines and the web. All are easily consumed and often, have as much  brain nutrition as fast food has for your stomach. Tweens know the Pope wears Prada.
Poor kids read Harry Potter, but they probably have different strategies for getting and reading it, without owning  and holding it. There is no shortage of torrents for books.
I have  a teenage girl, and TL;DR is a badge of honour with many of her suburban friends. Long involved ideas that you have to read are boring or seen as boring, and they run as fast from critical thought as from a pregnant 20 year old. It might be catching.

]]> By: Hans http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288136 Hans Tue, 06 Dec 2011 04:27:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288136 It is unfortunate, books are an excellent way to learn about the world.  However it is also important that kids have access to tools and chances to use them.  That may well be as important in learning how the world works as books, although both are central. It is unfortunate, books are an excellent way to learn about the world.  However it is also important that kids have access to tools and chances to use them.  That may well be as important in learning how the world works as books, although both are central.

]]> By: Moriarty http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288132 Moriarty Tue, 06 Dec 2011 04:17:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288132 A good 60 years? What was it like before then? A good 60 years? What was it like before then?

]]> By: jasongnc http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288120 jasongnc Tue, 06 Dec 2011 03:38:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288120 I know what the problem is, I've seen Skins.  All the kids in UK are too busy doing drugs and sex, and don't have time to find any books. I know what the problem is, I’ve seen Skins.  All the kids in UK are too busy doing drugs and sex, and don’t have time to find any books.

]]> By: Dimmer http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288089 Dimmer Tue, 06 Dec 2011 02:57:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288089 In the UK, we always had books provided for us in school. I was deeply saddened to discover later that all historical figures did not have the huge cocks and unfeasibly large testicles proffered by my history texts. In the UK, we always had books provided for us in school. I was deeply saddened to discover later that all historical figures did not have the huge cocks and unfeasibly large testicles proffered by my history texts.

]]> By: Bodhipaksa http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288076 Bodhipaksa Tue, 06 Dec 2011 02:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288076 Mostly when people don't give a shit about books it's because their parents never gave a shit about books. So blame the parents' parents' parents' parents' etc. Or drop the simplistic name calling and support projects that get poorer parents to read to their children. Mostly when people don’t give a shit about books it’s because their parents never gave a shit about books. So blame the parents’ parents’ parents’ parents’ etc. Or drop the simplistic name calling and support projects that get poorer parents to read to their children.

]]> By: Bodhipaksa http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288075 Bodhipaksa Tue, 06 Dec 2011 02:28:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288075 It's a question of culture. People who have not been read to as children often don't develop the reading habit, have smaller vocabularies,  are more intimidated by books, don't see the value in reading, and often don't read to their own children. Pretty much the only way to break this cycle is for outside agencies -- preschool, or outreach reading programs -- to introduce reading to families of young kids, preferably to families of babies.  By the way, most of the people I see struggling with money, including myself and most of my neighbors, are struggling because there's a crappy economy, and well-paying jobs with benefits are hard to come by. But of course it's psychologically more comfortable to believe that other people's problems are their fault. It’s a question of culture. People who have not been read to as children often don’t develop the reading habit, have smaller vocabularies,  are more intimidated by books, don’t see the value in reading, and often don’t read to their own children.

Pretty much the only way to break this cycle is for outside agencies — preschool, or outreach reading programs — to introduce reading to families of young kids, preferably to families of babies. 

By the way, most of the people I see struggling with money, including myself and most of my neighbors, are struggling because there’s a crappy economy, and well-paying jobs with benefits are hard to come by.

But of course it’s psychologically more comfortable to believe that other people’s problems are their fault.

]]> By: eldritch http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288062 eldritch Tue, 06 Dec 2011 02:06:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288062 And not giving a shit has to do with having any real reason to give a shit taken away from you. Treat people like shit long enough, they eventually start to truly believe it. Why try when you're constantly told you aren't worth anything and never will be? Just shut up and get a job, then toil until you die. At least with a telly they can watch the next royal wedding and marvel at how magnificent those graced by god are in comparison to themselves, right? And not giving a shit has to do with having any real reason to give a shit taken away from you.

Treat people like shit long enough, they eventually start to truly believe it. Why try when you’re constantly told you aren’t worth anything and never will be? Just shut up and get a job, then toil until you die. At least with a telly they can watch the next royal wedding and marvel at how magnificent those graced by god are in comparison to themselves, right?

]]> By: eldritch http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288057 eldritch Tue, 06 Dec 2011 01:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288057 It's called ennui,  and more specifically disenfranchisement. There's a history stretching back a good sixty years of disenfranchised youth in the UK. The government's response has long been "well then, fuck 'em - the system will sort them out".  And now that the system is no longer able to sort them out, a familiar old problem has suddenly taken on the visage of a strange new one. It’s called ennui,  and more specifically disenfranchisement.

There’s a history stretching back a good sixty years of disenfranchised youth in the UK. The government’s response has long been “well then, fuck ‘em – the system will sort them out”.  And now that the system is no longer able to sort them out, a familiar old problem has suddenly taken on the visage of a strange new one.

]]> By: Kevin T http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1288031 Kevin T Tue, 06 Dec 2011 01:14:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1288031 When I was a kid, I don't think I owned any books, either, at least not until I was well into my teens. Our house was filled with books, though, and a great many of them were at my reading level. But they were family books, not ones I would have said I owned myself. When I was a kid, I don’t think I owned any books, either, at least not until I was well into my teens. Our house was filled with books, though, and a great many of them were at my reading level. But they were family books, not ones I would have said I owned myself.

]]> By: librtee_dot_com http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1287994 librtee_dot_com Tue, 06 Dec 2011 00:37:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1287994 Don't worry, they are not deprived. I am sure they all ahve TVs, and isn't that good enough? Seriously, this isn't to do with money exactly..used books are dirt cheap, and libraries are free. It's to do with not giving a shit... Don’t worry, they are not deprived. I am sure they all ahve TVs, and isn’t that good enough?

Seriously, this isn’t to do with money exactly..used books are dirt cheap, and libraries are free. It’s to do with not giving a shit…

]]> By: Mister44 http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1287984 Mister44 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 00:26:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1287984 It's poor parenting. Poor people are more likely to have kids at a younger age. They could give up a pint or two at the pub a week and buy a used Harry Potter book - but why would they do that? It’s poor parenting. Poor people are more likely to have kids at a younger age. They could give up a pint or two at the pub a week and buy a used Harry Potter book – but why would they do that?

]]> By: PJDK http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1287963 PJDK Tue, 06 Dec 2011 00:01:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1287963 I'd take the opposite view.  Economic problems are incredibly difficult to solve.   Reading, however, is both good for you and enjoyable so it's not that hard to get people to do it.  Fundamentally it's a problem of advertising, and we've got lots of skills in advertising Michael Rosen is pretty inspirational on this front http://www.readingrevolution.co.uk/ I’d take the opposite view.  Economic problems are incredibly difficult to solve.   Reading, however, is both good for you and enjoyable so it’s not that hard to get people to do it.  Fundamentally it’s a problem of advertising, and we’ve got lots of skills in advertising

Michael Rosen is pretty inspirational on this front http://www.readingrevolution.co.uk/

]]> By: Michael Walsh http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1287953 Michael Walsh Mon, 05 Dec 2011 23:47:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1287953 In the US even the much despised Walmarts have book racks which include both adult best sellers and children's books. Do the Tescos and similar establishments in the UK not hav them? i think the issue here is not that people in the UK are so poor they can't even buy used books from a thrift store, but rather that it never occurs to them to even try. That is a different (and much scarier) situation. In the US even the much despised Walmarts have book racks which include both adult best sellers and children’s books. Do the Tescos and similar establishments in the UK not hav them? i think the issue here is not that people in the UK are so poor they can’t even buy used books from a thrift store, but rather that it never occurs to them to even try. That is a different (and much scarier) situation.

]]> By: PJDK http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1287952 PJDK Mon, 05 Dec 2011 23:44:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1287952 I'm sorry but there is no one with children (and all the additional government support that that provides) in the UK who can't afford books.  There are charity shops on every major shopping street which have a wide selection of good kids books for pennies. Second hand kids books are extremely cheap because once kids grow out of them they get passed on.  If you keep your eyes open walking around town all day you will be able to find enough change to buy your kid a book. I’m sorry but there is no one with children (and all the additional government support that that provides) in the UK who can’t afford books.  There are charity shops on every major shopping street which have a wide selection of good kids books for pennies.

Second hand kids books are extremely cheap because once kids grow out of them they get passed on.  If you keep your eyes open walking around town all day you will be able to find enough change to buy your kid a book.

]]> By: Tom Hiles http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1287939 Tom Hiles Mon, 05 Dec 2011 23:33:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1287939 "Regardless of how much money you have, you should be able to provide a few books for your kids." Really? What if you've got this much money:   £amount < (cost of food, clothes, transport, rent, essential bills) ?   How then can people afford books? You really don't have a clue how hard it is for many people.  “Regardless of how much money you have, you should be able to provide a few books for your kids.” Really? What if you’ve got this much money:   £amount < (cost of food, clothes, transport, rent, essential bills) ?  

How then can people afford books? You really don't have a clue how hard it is for many people. 

]]> By: Bodhipaksa http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1287934 Bodhipaksa Mon, 05 Dec 2011 23:26:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1287934 Right, so you're saying that Booktrust's program of giving books to the parents of babies is a waste of time because the babies don't want the books and are into iPods and designer nappies. Yeah, that makes sense. Right, so you’re saying that Booktrust’s program of giving books to the parents of babies is a waste of time because the babies don’t want the books and are into iPods and designer nappies. Yeah, that makes sense.

]]> By: Rayonic http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1287930 Rayonic Mon, 05 Dec 2011 23:22:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1287930 Giving away books won't help if kids don't want them. I'm sure the same kids spend money on other entertainment/fashion items. Giving away books won’t help if kids don’t want them.
I’m sure the same kids spend money on other entertainment/fashion items.

]]> By: PJDK http://boingboing.net/2011/12/05/3-8m-children-in-the-uk-dont.html#comment-1287919 PJDK Mon, 05 Dec 2011 23:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=132911#comment-1287919 I'm a little bit dubious about these numbers.  According to the article in 2003 the number was 1 in 10, now it is 1 in 3.  That is an enormous drop over 7 years and one that needs accounting for.  What changed in those 7 years to increase that figure by over 2 million?  While there's been an economic crash between then and now I find it hard to believe that has left that number of families so destitute they can't afford to buy their children a single book (I'd go as far as to say that a book as a gift would be a cheaper alternative than say a computer game so an increase in book ownership would not be that surprising) The study itself is here http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/assets/0001/1303/The_Gift_of_Reading_in_2011.pdf if anyone wants a proper look.  They don't seem to have attempted to sample/weight on anything other than gender which could be an issue, also the schools that took part were self selected. I’m a little bit dubious about these numbers.  According to the article in 2003 the number was 1 in 10, now it is 1 in 3.  That is an enormous drop over 7 years and one that needs accounting for.  What changed in those 7 years to increase that figure by over 2 million?  While there’s been an economic crash between then and now I find it hard to believe that has left that number of families so destitute they can’t afford to buy their children a single book (I’d go as far as to say that a book as a gift would be a cheaper alternative than say a computer game so an increase in book ownership would not be that surprising)

The study itself is here http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/assets/0001/1303/The_Gift_of_Reading_in_2011.pdf if anyone wants a proper look.  They don’t seem to have attempted to sample/weight on anything other than gender which could be an issue, also the schools that took part were self selected.

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