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	<title>Comments on: Disaster book club: What you need to read to understand the crash of Air France&#160;447</title>
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	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: Ludovic Pessot</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1293907</link>
		<dc:creator>Ludovic Pessot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2011 10:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1293907</guid>
		<description>I think this boils down to over-reliance on the proverbial technology crutch. We delegate more and more tasks to computers, without properly training humans how to react when these crutches malfunction. Worse, the mere possibility of a malfunction becomes taboo, because it is assumed that the mere mention of this would result in stress.

This is not limited to planes: now you see cars with HUDs, systems that automatically turn on blinking lights when you change lanes, collision radars and so on. 

The other day I was watching a documentary about the Lofoten Islands, in Norway, one of the most dangerous coast there is (that&#039;s where you find the infamous Maelstrom). There are many lighthouses there, that are not permanently manned anymore. People go there regularly to check on systems and one was asked whether this whole setup is necessary anymore, what with everyone using GPS. And the guy answered: &quot;And what happens when you&#039;re at sea, at night and during a storm, and your GPS breaks down?&quot; Because it WILL break down, usually at the worst moment. And the scariest part is, most of the people are so used to their GPS they mightn&#039;t be able to navigate by view well enough anymore...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this boils down to over-reliance on the proverbial technology crutch. We delegate more and more tasks to computers, without properly training humans how to react when these crutches malfunction. Worse, the mere possibility of a malfunction becomes taboo, because it is assumed that the mere mention of this would result in stress.</p>
<p>This is not limited to planes: now you see cars with HUDs, systems that automatically turn on blinking lights when you change lanes, collision radars and so on. </p>
<p>The other day I was watching a documentary about the Lofoten Islands, in Norway, one of the most dangerous coast there is (that&#8217;s where you find the infamous Maelstrom). There are many lighthouses there, that are not permanently manned anymore. People go there regularly to check on systems and one was asked whether this whole setup is necessary anymore, what with everyone using GPS. And the guy answered: &#8220;And what happens when you&#8217;re at sea, at night and during a storm, and your GPS breaks down?&#8221; Because it WILL break down, usually at the worst moment. And the scariest part is, most of the people are so used to their GPS they mightn&#8217;t be able to navigate by view well enough anymore&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Karl Abrahamson</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1293745</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Abrahamson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2011 03:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1293745</guid>
		<description>I agree with your assessment, however, it took a couple of vehicles with incorrectly designed ABS systems to create a system that fails &quot;safe&quot;. Now if any of the ABS system receives erroneous or unexpected data, it disables itself, and allows the brakes to function in a basic mode (they are still a hydraulic system powered by your foot) its why we have electronic throttles, but not electronic brakes*. There were a couple cars in the early ABS days that would not apply the brakes if a wheel speed sensor read no speed. This is a bad fail state. 
*yes the system can apply the brakes on its own on some cars. this is not the same as you telling the computer, to tell the brakes to activate. Vehicle brakes are a very complex system designed to fail always to a less functional, but still functional state, even in the event of total failure of multiple system components. And why we still have E-brakes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your assessment, however, it took a couple of vehicles with incorrectly designed ABS systems to create a system that fails &#8220;safe&#8221;. Now if any of the ABS system receives erroneous or unexpected data, it disables itself, and allows the brakes to function in a basic mode (they are still a hydraulic system powered by your foot) its why we have electronic throttles, but not electronic brakes*. There were a couple cars in the early ABS days that would not apply the brakes if a wheel speed sensor read no speed. This is a bad fail state.<br />
*yes the system can apply the brakes on its own on some cars. this is not the same as you telling the computer, to tell the brakes to activate. Vehicle brakes are a very complex system designed to fail always to a less functional, but still functional state, even in the event of total failure of multiple system components. And why we still have E-brakes.</p>
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		<title>By: Karl Abrahamson</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1293740</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Abrahamson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2011 03:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1293740</guid>
		<description>While I have no proof of this or stats, it has been told to me by a reliable source that when all wheel independent anti-lock brakes became a standard feature on domestic cars, there was a sudden jump in new vehicle traffic accidents. Particularly ones involving slippery conditions. This was determined to be due the the cars new behavior of pulsing the brake pedal and causing the steering wheel to shake. This caused driver panic, and people took their foot off the brake. Not a mechanical problem, but one of unfamiliar conditions. If you want direct evidence of the new info problem, look at auto yards for wreaked vehicles with less than 25 miles on the odometer. Happens pretty often. 
Consumer vehicles are full of single point failure systems. its just that they are considered reliable enough on their own, or at worst have a predictable and mostly safe fail condition. However anything is possible, and every imaginable failure, and a few that are not, are bound to happen. Add driver reaction into the mix, and it gets much more complex.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I have no proof of this or stats, it has been told to me by a reliable source that when all wheel independent anti-lock brakes became a standard feature on domestic cars, there was a sudden jump in new vehicle traffic accidents. Particularly ones involving slippery conditions. This was determined to be due the the cars new behavior of pulsing the brake pedal and causing the steering wheel to shake. This caused driver panic, and people took their foot off the brake. Not a mechanical problem, but one of unfamiliar conditions. If you want direct evidence of the new info problem, look at auto yards for wreaked vehicles with less than 25 miles on the odometer. Happens pretty often.<br />
Consumer vehicles are full of single point failure systems. its just that they are considered reliable enough on their own, or at worst have a predictable and mostly safe fail condition. However anything is possible, and every imaginable failure, and a few that are not, are bound to happen. Add driver reaction into the mix, and it gets much more complex.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Gerratt</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1293547</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Gerratt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Dec 2011 20:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1293547</guid>
		<description>1) GPS measures groundspeed; pitots measure airspeed. There&#039;s a big difference - at 35,000 feet, you can have airspeeds in the hundreds of knots. I recall seeing a picture of an airliner, with the console showing a groundspeed higher than the speed of sound; similarly, in a small, light aircraft in the right conditions, it&#039;s possible to have zero groundspeed - or even fly backwards!

2) The pitot tubes are heated - but the ones on AF443 were a bad design (search for &quot;thales pitot&quot; for more info). They were supposed to be replaced at the next major maintenance check - but that didn&#039;t quite happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) GPS measures groundspeed; pitots measure airspeed. There&#8217;s a big difference &#8211; at 35,000 feet, you can have airspeeds in the hundreds of knots. I recall seeing a picture of an airliner, with the console showing a groundspeed higher than the speed of sound; similarly, in a small, light aircraft in the right conditions, it&#8217;s possible to have zero groundspeed &#8211; or even fly backwards!</p>
<p>2) The pitot tubes are heated &#8211; but the ones on AF443 were a bad design (search for &#8220;thales pitot&#8221; for more info). They were supposed to be replaced at the next major maintenance check &#8211; but that didn&#8217;t quite happen.</p>
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		<title>By: RD55</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1292739</link>
		<dc:creator>RD55</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2011 15:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1292739</guid>
		<description>The lesson here is in the very first line of the  synopsis; &quot;At 1h 36m, the flight enters the outer extremities of a tropical storm  system. Unlike other planes&#039; crews flying through the region, AF447&#039;s  flight crew has not changed the route to avoid the worst of the storms.

Basic rule -  avoid bad weather, don&#039;t needless test your aircraft/crew system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The lesson here is in the very first line of the  synopsis; &#8220;At 1h 36m, the flight enters the outer extremities of a tropical storm  system. Unlike other planes&#8217; crews flying through the region, AF447&#8242;s  flight crew has not changed the route to avoid the worst of the storms.</p>
<p>Basic rule -  avoid bad weather, don&#8217;t needless test your aircraft/crew system.</p>
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		<title>By: cdr</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1292627</link>
		<dc:creator>cdr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2011 08:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1292627</guid>
		<description>Confusion in the cockpit and loss of situational awareness is often a factor in crashes, as chillingly shown by transcripts in the horrifying yet fascinating &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/dp/0688158927/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;EM&gt;The Black Box&lt;/EM&gt;&lt;/A&gt; by Malcolm Macpherson.

Petroski&#039;s book is good too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Confusion in the cockpit and loss of situational awareness is often a factor in crashes, as chillingly shown by transcripts in the horrifying yet fascinating <a HREF="http://www.amazon.com/dp/0688158927/" rel="nofollow"><em>The Black Box</em></a> by Malcolm Macpherson.</p>
<p>Petroski&#8217;s book is good too.</p>
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		<title>By: kpallist</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1292380</link>
		<dc:creator>kpallist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2011 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1292380</guid>
		<description>Another good read for you to consider: To Engineer is Human by Henry Petroski. Examines a number of engineering disasters through history to draw the following thesis/conclusion: We build stuff, we over-build it for safety reasons, it works, we build the next thing a bit more complacently and a bit more cost conciously... and eventually we have another disaster and then vow to overbuild again.

http://www.amazon.com/Engineer-Human-Failure-Successful-Design/dp/0679734163/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1323474741&amp;sr=8-1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another good read for you to consider: To Engineer is Human by Henry Petroski. Examines a number of engineering disasters through history to draw the following thesis/conclusion: We build stuff, we over-build it for safety reasons, it works, we build the next thing a bit more complacently and a bit more cost conciously&#8230; and eventually we have another disaster and then vow to overbuild again.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Engineer-Human-Failure-Successful-Design/dp/0679734163/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&#038;qid=1323474741&#038;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Engineer-Human-Failure-Successful-Design/dp/0679734163/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&#038;qid=1323474741&#038;sr=8-1</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dennis</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291837</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 17:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291837</guid>
		<description>1) Why isn&#039;t airspeed data from pitot tubes checked against GPS?

2) Why aren&#039;t the pitot tubes thermostatically heated to prevent icing over?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) Why isn&#8217;t airspeed data from pitot tubes checked against GPS?</p>
<p>2) Why aren&#8217;t the pitot tubes thermostatically heated to prevent icing over?</p>
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		<title>By: j dale</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291814</link>
		<dc:creator>j dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 17:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291814</guid>
		<description>When you finish with &quot;Normal Accidents&quot; follow it with &quot;Bak&#039;s Sand Pile&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you finish with &#8220;Normal Accidents&#8221; follow it with &#8220;Bak&#8217;s Sand Pile&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: JPW</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291654</link>
		<dc:creator>JPW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 16:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291654</guid>
		<description>At the risk of oversimplifying, who would ever let out more string when a kite is dropping? That&#039;s apparently the nosing-up pilot error in 447 and Colgan Air 3407 (approaching Buffalo a few years back). Both cases involved extreme weather and autopilot, coupled with &quot;incomprehensibility.&quot; Right there, isn&#039;t that your use case for an algorithm to predict a stall scenario, then yank in the string? . . . </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the risk of oversimplifying, who would ever let out more string when a kite is dropping? That&#8217;s apparently the nosing-up pilot error in 447 and Colgan Air 3407 (approaching Buffalo a few years back). Both cases involved extreme weather and autopilot, coupled with &#8220;incomprehensibility.&#8221; Right there, isn&#8217;t that your use case for an algorithm to predict a stall scenario, then yank in the string? . . . </p>
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		<title>By: enlo</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291389</link>
		<dc:creator>enlo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 12:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291389</guid>
		<description>Reminds me of &quot;Up Against It&quot; written by M. J. Locke.
The Life-System-AI becomes a threat to the population when it tries to save a life</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reminds me of &#8220;Up Against It&#8221; written by M. J. Locke.<br />
The Life-System-AI becomes a threat to the population when it tries to save a life</p>
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		<title>By: Tess</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291345</link>
		<dc:creator>Tess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 10:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291345</guid>
		<description>Well said.  I was going to say much of this.  Personally, I do like Perrow&#039;s argument, but that doesn&#039;t mean he&#039;s telling the *whole* story. 

Do note, though, that &quot;just a theory&quot; isn&#039;t really accurate, nor is &quot;it ain&#039;t proven.&quot;  This is science, so theory is a goal in itself, and no theory is ever proved.  That&#039;s not what we do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said.  I was going to say much of this.  Personally, I do like Perrow&#8217;s argument, but that doesn&#8217;t mean he&#8217;s telling the *whole* story. </p>
<p>Do note, though, that &#8220;just a theory&#8221; isn&#8217;t really accurate, nor is &#8220;it ain&#8217;t proven.&#8221;  This is science, so theory is a goal in itself, and no theory is ever proved.  That&#8217;s not what we do.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Smith</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291304</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 07:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291304</guid>
		<description>Complexity makes systems difficult to model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Complexity makes systems difficult to model.</p>
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		<title>By: penguinsix</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291298</link>
		<dc:creator>penguinsix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 07:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291298</guid>
		<description>First, this was a gripping article I strongly suggest you read.   

What struck me in the article was the asynchronous &quot;joystick&quot; / yoke controls.  With one pilot pulling back the other stick did not have the same reaction (as we would expect having watched dozens of airliner movies over the years).  This lack of a &quot;tactile&quot; alert could have been the difference between life and death.  Had the other pilot noticed &quot;which is this control stick all the way back&quot; the corrections could have taken place far earlier.
I think about this in more advanced systems--sort of that &quot;last chance&quot; kind of option that defies computer programming and is something rendered in an old fashion, more blunt force way.  Anyone who has driven in mountains often notices pulls off filled with gravel (runaway truck stops).  A &quot;trip cock&quot; on a train system that engages the brakes should a signal be passed.  Sometimes a simple option isn&#039;t necessarily a bad option.

Anyway, a very important read.  Very tense.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, this was a gripping article I strongly suggest you read.   </p>
<p>What struck me in the article was the asynchronous &#8220;joystick&#8221; / yoke controls.  With one pilot pulling back the other stick did not have the same reaction (as we would expect having watched dozens of airliner movies over the years).  This lack of a &#8220;tactile&#8221; alert could have been the difference between life and death.  Had the other pilot noticed &#8220;which is this control stick all the way back&#8221; the corrections could have taken place far earlier.<br />
I think about this in more advanced systems&#8211;sort of that &#8220;last chance&#8221; kind of option that defies computer programming and is something rendered in an old fashion, more blunt force way.  Anyone who has driven in mountains often notices pulls off filled with gravel (runaway truck stops).  A &#8220;trip cock&#8221; on a train system that engages the brakes should a signal be passed.  Sometimes a simple option isn&#8217;t necessarily a bad option.</p>
<p>Anyway, a very important read.  Very tense.  </p>
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		<title>By: schr0559</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291242</link>
		<dc:creator>schr0559</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 04:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291242</guid>
		<description>Even working as a tester for several years, it&#039;s hard to overcome that instinct.  Sometimes it&#039;s due to a myopic focus on the &quot;expected&quot; problem, when the real issue is somewhere else.

Other times, so many things are broken it&#039;s tempting to just throw it back and ask for a working version. Gotta have a real good reason to do that, though :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even working as a tester for several years, it&#8217;s hard to overcome that instinct.  Sometimes it&#8217;s due to a myopic focus on the &#8220;expected&#8221; problem, when the real issue is somewhere else.</p>
<p>Other times, so many things are broken it&#8217;s tempting to just throw it back and ask for a working version. Gotta have a real good reason to do that, though :)</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Sloman</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291211</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Sloman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 03:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291211</guid>
		<description>It appears that many incidents are related to airspeed and attitude.  Given the use of glass cockpits these days perhaps two simple indicators might aid in these situations.  

1. Attitude indicator : Like the Russians use on Soyuz spacecraft as a backup. Simply a mass (mascot in the Soyuz case) on string in the cockpit.  If it points down you are level.  Leans back you are climbing ,leans forward = decent, sits on the roof = you are inverted! The plane equivalent to fluffy dice.

2. Speed indicator: Simple deforming spring outside the pilot and co-pilot&#039;s windows that deforms visibly with airspeed.  Some funky colour visible day/night. Not hyper accurate given its position on the surface but enough to give a rough order of airspeed.  The pilots with time will associate its behaviour with the known airspeeds they use when the systems are all working well. When they disagree the pilot will notice. If the cockpit goes black it still works.

This way you have a non avionic backup indication of these two things to refer against when all the alarms and buzzers go off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It appears that many incidents are related to airspeed and attitude.  Given the use of glass cockpits these days perhaps two simple indicators might aid in these situations.  </p>
<p>1. Attitude indicator : Like the Russians use on Soyuz spacecraft as a backup. Simply a mass (mascot in the Soyuz case) on string in the cockpit.  If it points down you are level.  Leans back you are climbing ,leans forward = decent, sits on the roof = you are inverted! The plane equivalent to fluffy dice.</p>
<p>2. Speed indicator: Simple deforming spring outside the pilot and co-pilot&#8217;s windows that deforms visibly with airspeed.  Some funky colour visible day/night. Not hyper accurate given its position on the surface but enough to give a rough order of airspeed.  The pilots with time will associate its behaviour with the known airspeeds they use when the systems are all working well. When they disagree the pilot will notice. If the cockpit goes black it still works.</p>
<p>This way you have a non avionic backup indication of these two things to refer against when all the alarms and buzzers go off.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Pootel</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291189</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Pootel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 02:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291189</guid>
		<description>As soon as you find yourself thinking, &quot;But it HAS to work!&quot; with software, it&#039;s a clear message that you&#039;re assuming something that&#039;s wrong.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As soon as you find yourself thinking, &#8220;But it HAS to work!&#8221; with software, it&#8217;s a clear message that you&#8217;re assuming something that&#8217;s wrong.  </p>
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		<title>By: mothernatureseven</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291179</link>
		<dc:creator>mothernatureseven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 02:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291179</guid>
		<description>There is no such thing as a risk free day on earth and there never will be ~ regardless of the science breakthroughs.
An 95/05 chance of living is probably an excellent day. We normally unknowingly operated most days with less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no such thing as a risk free day on earth and there never will be ~ regardless of the science breakthroughs.<br />
An 95/05 chance of living is probably an excellent day. We normally unknowingly operated most days with less.</p>
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		<title>By: Lilah</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291149</link>
		<dc:creator>Lilah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 01:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291149</guid>
		<description>I thought of that same clip when I read Zachary&#039;s comment. While being fairly innocuous and nongraphic, that clip has always stuck with me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought of that same clip when I read Zachary&#8217;s comment. While being fairly innocuous and nongraphic, that clip has always stuck with me.</p>
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		<title>By: John Veteran</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291146</link>
		<dc:creator>John Veteran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 01:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291146</guid>
		<description>The only thing any pilot needs in a Commercial Airliner to avoid these accidents is an Angle of Attack Indicator. Any Fighter Pilot who walks onto the deck of a Commercial Jet will immediately say,  &quot;Where TF is the AOA indicator, are you guys insane?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only thing any pilot needs in a Commercial Airliner to avoid these accidents is an Angle of Attack Indicator. Any Fighter Pilot who walks onto the deck of a Commercial Jet will immediately say,  &#8221;Where TF is the AOA indicator, are you guys insane?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: flosofl</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291089</link>
		<dc:creator>flosofl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 00:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291089</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It could have been something simple yet obvious, like cockpit lights changing to alternate colors.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Ha! I was thinking the exact same thing while I read the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It could have been something simple yet obvious, like cockpit lights changing to alternate colors.</p></blockquote>
<p>Ha! I was thinking the exact same thing while I read the article.</p>
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		<title>By: flosofl</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291085</link>
		<dc:creator>flosofl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 00:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291085</guid>
		<description>I agree with you regarding Popular Mechanics and their analyses. They appear to have a very sharp staff working there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you regarding Popular Mechanics and their analyses. They appear to have a very sharp staff working there.</p>
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		<title>By: flosofl</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291077</link>
		<dc:creator>flosofl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 00:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291077</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m guessing he means that what we call an &quot;accident&quot; is really an incident where one or more participants exercised poor judgement and decision making. Hence mishap (I had a cop friend who used to refer to them to misadventures).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m guessing he means that what we call an &#8220;accident&#8221; is really an incident where one or more participants exercised poor judgement and decision making. Hence mishap (I had a cop friend who used to refer to them to misadventures).</p>
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		<title>By: Palomino</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291058</link>
		<dc:creator>Palomino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291058</guid>
		<description>I think the human brain has a hard time switching from one type of specific incident having different actions in different scenarios. 

In the air, what do you expect? Is the pilot supposed to know how to immediately repair every minute failure of the aircraft? A pilot is not an engineer or mechanic, he&#039;s a pilot. 

How many survivable mechanical failures occur, what are the numbers? How do we plan on training every pilot on how to repair every on conceivable  unforeseeable mechanical issue, especially if they may not happen in his/her entire flight career. That&#039;s why we have &quot;preventative maintenance&quot;. The inspections/repairs are the only realistic safeguards for any mode of travel. 

Let us take &quot;Running Out of Fuel&quot; (highest probability) 
Landcraft: You come to a gradual rolling stop.
Watercraft: Climate an issue, drift, grounding, sinking,  drop anchor/parachute anchor if possible,  rescue may not be immediate. (preparation for these scenarios are law)
Not all Aircraft responds the same: 
&gt;Jet: Crash or glide to a safe landing
&gt;Rocket: Catastrophic
&gt;Helicopter: Catastrophic
&gt;Blip/Balloon: Slow decent, landing spot an issue, hard landing. The automobile industry realizes this too. 

My Dodge&#039;s p0455 (cycle key a few time when check engine light come on) directs me to a few possibilities:  ( per http://www.obd-codes.com/p0455 ) Evaporative Emission Control System Leak Detected (no purge flow or large leak). This indicates a fuel vapor leak or lack of purge flow in the EVAP control system. It means a large leak has been detected. The (EVAP) emission control system prevents the escape of fuel vapors from a vehicle&#039;s fuel system. Fuel vapors are routed by hoses to a charcoal canister for storage. Later, when the engine is running a purge control valve opens allowing intake vacuum to siphon the fuel vapors into the engine.

With a p0455, the most common repair is to: Remove and reinstall the gas cap, clear the codes, and drive for a day and see if the codes come back. Otherwise, replace the gas cap, and/or Inspect the EVAP system for cuts/holes in tubes/hoses (you may hear a vacuum noise or smell fuel), repair if necessary. (it&#039;s always been the cap)

My Dodges p0455 code is somewhat of a luxury code, I have time to address it later and can continue using my vehicle. 

Any kind of plane cannot operate with this type of warning system. So it has to be specific because certain malfunctions have  to be attended to immediately. 

Ever take anything apart, put it back together and have one screw left? If it&#039;s a plane, you&#039;re not taking off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the human brain has a hard time switching from one type of specific incident having different actions in different scenarios. </p>
<p>In the air, what do you expect? Is the pilot supposed to know how to immediately repair every minute failure of the aircraft? A pilot is not an engineer or mechanic, he&#8217;s a pilot. </p>
<p>How many survivable mechanical failures occur, what are the numbers? How do we plan on training every pilot on how to repair every on conceivable  unforeseeable mechanical issue, especially if they may not happen in his/her entire flight career. That&#8217;s why we have &#8220;preventative maintenance&#8221;. The inspections/repairs are the only realistic safeguards for any mode of travel. </p>
<p>Let us take &#8220;Running Out of Fuel&#8221; (highest probability)<br />
Landcraft: You come to a gradual rolling stop.<br />
Watercraft: Climate an issue, drift, grounding, sinking,  drop anchor/parachute anchor if possible,  rescue may not be immediate. (preparation for these scenarios are law)<br />
Not all Aircraft responds the same: <br />
&gt;Jet: Crash or glide to a safe landing<br />
&gt;Rocket: Catastrophic<br />
&gt;Helicopter: Catastrophic<br />
&gt;Blip/Balloon: Slow decent, landing spot an issue, hard landing. The automobile industry realizes this too. </p>
<p>My Dodge&#8217;s p0455 (cycle key a few time when check engine light come on) directs me to a few possibilities:  ( per http://www.obd-codes.com/p0455 ) Evaporative Emission Control System Leak Detected (no purge flow or large leak). This indicates a fuel vapor leak or lack of purge flow in the EVAP control system. It means a large leak has been detected. The (EVAP) emission control system prevents the escape of fuel vapors from a vehicle&#8217;s fuel system. Fuel vapors are routed by hoses to a charcoal canister for storage. Later, when the engine is running a purge control valve opens allowing intake vacuum to siphon the fuel vapors into the engine.</p>
<p>With a p0455, the most common repair is to: Remove and reinstall the gas cap, clear the codes, and drive for a day and see if the codes come back. Otherwise, replace the gas cap, and/or Inspect the EVAP system for cuts/holes in tubes/hoses (you may hear a vacuum noise or smell fuel), repair if necessary. (it&#8217;s always been the cap)</p>
<p>My Dodges p0455 code is somewhat of a luxury code, I have time to address it later and can continue using my vehicle. </p>
<p>Any kind of plane cannot operate with this type of warning system. So it has to be specific because certain malfunctions have  to be attended to immediately. </p>
<p>Ever take anything apart, put it back together and have one screw left? If it&#8217;s a plane, you&#8217;re not taking off.</p>
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		<title>By: joe blough</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291034</link>
		<dc:creator>joe blough</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291034</guid>
		<description>&quot;bailing out&quot; means &quot;to quit doing something&quot; in this context. like when you are the pilot, and you bail out of a plane, you are quitting at the task of flying it. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;bailing out&#8221; means &#8220;to quit doing something&#8221; in this context. like when you are the pilot, and you bail out of a plane, you are quitting at the task of flying it. </p>
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		<title>By: Spocko</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1291010</link>
		<dc:creator>Spocko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1291010</guid>
		<description>The Popular Mechanic&#039;s piece is an excellent article. I&#039;ve read some a books about interface design on planes. The fact that there is a dual control of the yoke did more than just give pilots the ability to see the other&#039;s movements, but to feel them physically when your eyes are focused on the various instruments.

 As the PM&#039;s writer Jeff Wise obviously knows, the &quot;tunnel effect&#039; where your perceptions narrow, would perhaps kick in in this situation. Robert could technically probably see Bonin&#039;s movements of pulling the stick back but with narrowed perceptions and a focus on the airspeed indicators, he may have lost that visual input. But with a dual yoke system he would still feel it and not have to look to know Bonin was doing the wrong thing.

What I like about the study of this tragedy is that people are looking a the whole system so they can deal with both design issues, technology issues and human issues.

 Think about how many times when there are situations where the wrong input or the misunderstanding of the input leads to tragedy.  If you can fix those they you still have to deal with when people irrationally (or willfully) do the wrong thing. 

Bonin&#039;s irrational choices were not fed to either Robert or the Captain until too late.  Failure in communication, via the yoke system or words, is also a big part of the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Popular Mechanic&#8217;s piece is an excellent article. I&#8217;ve read some a books about interface design on planes. The fact that there is a dual control of the yoke did more than just give pilots the ability to see the other&#8217;s movements, but to feel them physically when your eyes are focused on the various instruments.</p>
<p> As the PM&#8217;s writer Jeff Wise obviously knows, the &#8220;tunnel effect&#8217; where your perceptions narrow, would perhaps kick in in this situation. Robert could technically probably see Bonin&#8217;s movements of pulling the stick back but with narrowed perceptions and a focus on the airspeed indicators, he may have lost that visual input. But with a dual yoke system he would still feel it and not have to look to know Bonin was doing the wrong thing.</p>
<p>What I like about the study of this tragedy is that people are looking a the whole system so they can deal with both design issues, technology issues and human issues.</p>
<p> Think about how many times when there are situations where the wrong input or the misunderstanding of the input leads to tragedy.  If you can fix those they you still have to deal with when people irrationally (or willfully) do the wrong thing. </p>
<p>Bonin&#8217;s irrational choices were not fed to either Robert or the Captain until too late.  Failure in communication, via the yoke system or words, is also a big part of the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: puppethead</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1290912</link>
		<dc:creator>puppethead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 21:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1290912</guid>
		<description>For me the biggest takeaway from the Popular Mechanics article was the flawed Airbus systems. While the pilots did make mistakes, the Airbus system designs amplified and/or led to them.

For example, why would there be an audible and persistent stall warning if the plane&#039;s &quot;normal law&quot; would never let a stall happen? It seems like the warning should have been reserved for &quot;alternate law&quot;. That created a situation where a so-called warning was actually meaningless and increased confusion and stress.

No feedback between the yokes seems like another major design flaw. And shockingly there wasn&#039;t any mention of an overt indicator that the plane switched between normal and alternate law. It could have been something simple yet obvious, like cockpit lights changing to alternate colors. Think submarine movies where the control room lights switch to red during combat mode.

I&#039;m hoping Airbus has fixed these flaws. This crash does show how carefully thought out every system needs to be in all conditions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me the biggest takeaway from the Popular Mechanics article was the flawed Airbus systems. While the pilots did make mistakes, the Airbus system designs amplified and/or led to them.</p>
<p>For example, why would there be an audible and persistent stall warning if the plane&#8217;s &#8220;normal law&#8221; would never let a stall happen? It seems like the warning should have been reserved for &#8220;alternate law&#8221;. That created a situation where a so-called warning was actually meaningless and increased confusion and stress.</p>
<p>No feedback between the yokes seems like another major design flaw. And shockingly there wasn&#8217;t any mention of an overt indicator that the plane switched between normal and alternate law. It could have been something simple yet obvious, like cockpit lights changing to alternate colors. Think submarine movies where the control room lights switch to red during combat mode.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m hoping Airbus has fixed these flaws. This crash does show how carefully thought out every system needs to be in all conditions.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Rodgers</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1290900</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Rodgers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 21:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1290900</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;But what happens if what&#039;s actually going on doesn&#039;t mesh with your training? Then the brain finds ways to make it mesh. Those rational explanations might make a whole lot of sense to you, in the moment. But they will lead you to make mistakes that exacerbate an already growing problem.&lt;/em&gt;

Sounds a lot like spending $57B on useless terrorist protection....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>But what happens if what&#8217;s actually going on doesn&#8217;t mesh with your training? Then the brain finds ways to make it mesh. Those rational explanations might make a whole lot of sense to you, in the moment. But they will lead you to make mistakes that exacerbate an already growing problem.</em></p>
<p>Sounds a lot like spending $57B on useless terrorist protection&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1290885</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 21:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1290885</guid>
		<description>This would be fine if &quot;alternate law mode&quot; means the same thing every time but I seriously doubt it does.  The pilots need to know they&#039;re in control now but they also need to know why so they know what to do next.  

They might not need a complete rundown of everything that&#039;s going wrong but they need at least a little bit of context.  Otherwise pilots will train themselves not to pull up even when pulling up is the correct thing to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This would be fine if &#8220;alternate law mode&#8221; means the same thing every time but I seriously doubt it does.  The pilots need to know they&#8217;re in control now but they also need to know why so they know what to do next.  </p>
<p>They might not need a complete rundown of everything that&#8217;s going wrong but they need at least a little bit of context.  Otherwise pilots will train themselves not to pull up even when pulling up is the correct thing to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2011/12/08/disaster-book-club-what-you-n.html#comment-1290884</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 21:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=133415#comment-1290884</guid>
		<description>It was in the spam filter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was in the spam filter.</p>
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