Comments on: Occupy Wall Street hand signals, an illustrated guide by Ape Lad http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Tue, 18 Jun 2013 05:16:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: csforstall http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1301071 csforstall Tue, 20 Dec 2011 00:38:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1301071 I suppose most of your regular folk are apathetic about politics and see OWS as just another political player. It is  a bit maddening to these people that OWS, as a political player, insists on keeping its collective mouth shut when it comes to what exactly they want to accomplish (most basic one being, reform or revolution?). Traditional Americans are on the whole fine with protests, but they don't like unruly mobs. OWS has fallen off the radar since they seem too much like the latter. Really, why should we take OWS seriously if they don't even have the decency to clarify those objectives (or even imagine that some people don't have constant access to the web). Most regular folk now see OWS as revolutionaries and not reformers. And let me tell you, nobody wants to deal with any more unsettling then we have already. We want jobs, not a whole new method of governance. Let alone one that mimes agreement and doesn't actually reach it... I suppose most of your regular folk are apathetic about politics and see OWS as just another political player. It is  a bit maddening to these people that OWS, as a political player, insists on keeping its collective mouth shut when it comes to what exactly they want to accomplish (most basic one being, reform or revolution?). Traditional Americans are on the whole fine with protests, but they don’t like unruly mobs. OWS has fallen off the radar since they seem too much like the latter. Really, why should we take OWS seriously if they don’t even have the decency to clarify those objectives (or even imagine that some people don’t have constant access to the web). Most regular folk now see OWS as revolutionaries and not reformers. And let me tell you, nobody wants to deal with any more unsettling then we have already.

We want jobs, not a whole new method of governance. Let alone one that mimes agreement and doesn’t actually reach it…

]]> By: EricT http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300906 EricT Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300906 Do they have one for "Please stop pummeling me with your nightstick." ?  Or is the indicator for that just screaming?  Do they have one for “Please stop pummeling me with your nightstick.” ? 

Or is the indicator for that just screaming? 

]]> By: Daniel Cosby http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300700 Daniel Cosby Mon, 19 Dec 2011 17:59:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300700 That's R'lyeh not funny. That’s R’lyeh not funny.

]]> By: Sam Pourasghar http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300563 Sam Pourasghar Mon, 19 Dec 2011 13:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300563 The most useful handsignals to know are the ones used by the criminal underworld (detailed in Thrizzle by @MKupperman). I looked for a pic link, but could'ne find one. I wonder if these signals contradict regular sign language, so a deaf person may find a vendetta mask wearing protestor hurling silent words at them that instead of saying "wrap it up" for example could be read as "I'm gonna rinse you out like a couple of hot flannels". The most useful handsignals to know are the ones used by the criminal underworld (detailed in Thrizzle by @MKupperman). I looked for a pic link, but could’ne find one. I wonder if these signals contradict regular sign language, so a deaf person may find a vendetta mask wearing protestor hurling silent words at them that instead of saying “wrap it up” for example could be read as “I’m gonna rinse you out like a couple of hot flannels”.

]]> By: Incipient Madness http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300471 Incipient Madness Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:45:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300471 No anger and no direction? Have you ever been to an Occupy action? The Divestment March in Houston had plenty of results and about 200 participants. #D12 at the Port led to the Port Authority CEO resigning. And what's wrong with showing discontent and asserting power? I think the purest assertion of the rights of the people to assemble and petition is the first goal of Occupy. The message that we are citizens and have our rights is the primary message, other goals are secondary. We are not peons, peasants, or victims. We have the right to assemble on public land and assert our rights as citizens. Tranquility Park is ours until its over. This will be six to twenty years. We will resod the grass when we leave. There are women who sleep here with their children here some nights a week. When women come with children, you know a place is occupied.  Some lameoids say it's not about occupying parks anymore. Hell no. The assertion of power to occupy public spaces is the core of this movement. Tranquility is ours. And I hope the trial by fire we gave to Occupy Now, a Dallas splinter group, will give you the courage to retake your public spaces and unify your groups. And thanks to Occupy San Francisco for the help with bail money. Y'all are awesome. No anger and no direction? Have you ever been to an Occupy action? The Divestment March in Houston had plenty of results and about 200 participants. #D12 at the Port led to the Port Authority CEO resigning.

And what’s wrong with showing discontent and asserting power? I think the purest assertion of the rights of the people to assemble and petition is the first goal of Occupy. The message that we are citizens and have our rights is the primary message, other goals are secondary. We are not peons, peasants, or victims. We have the right to assemble on public land and assert our rights as citizens.

Tranquility Park is ours until its over. This will be six to twenty years. We will resod the grass when we leave. There are women who sleep here with their children here some nights a week. When women come with children, you know a place is occupied.  Some lameoids say it’s not about occupying parks anymore. Hell no. The assertion of power to occupy public spaces is the core of this movement. Tranquility is ours. And I hope the trial by fire we gave to Occupy Now, a Dallas splinter group, will give you the courage to retake your public spaces and unify your groups. And thanks to Occupy San Francisco for the help with bail money. Y’all are awesome.

]]> By: latent_ravening_ferocity http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300416 latent_ravening_ferocity Mon, 19 Dec 2011 05:34:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300416 Apparently Michelle Obama has a point of process: http://www.bluegrasspundit.com/2011/12/strange-michelle-obama-makes-vagina.html Apparently Michelle Obama has a point of process:

http://www.bluegrasspundit.com/2011/12/strange-michelle-obama-makes-vagina.html

]]> By: artaxerxes http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300404 artaxerxes Mon, 19 Dec 2011 05:06:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300404 It's maybe a little late for that outrage, unfortunately, considering Ilene Chaiken co-opted it in "The Real L-Word" to signify the "power of the clam." (With purple retro-rave lights zooming from the vertices.)  That was a few years ago and OWS' co-opting of that hand-signal is miles more meaningful, useful and less destructive to lesbian political and social progress. Also, my younger gaymo friends consider I. Chaiken's version a very lame, TV-stupid joke. What a shining knight of progress that gal's been for the movement.(Caveat: I am a genderqueer dyke, but speak only for this single genderqueer dyke who's not young, but not old, is an activist and supports OWS. And I have no idea whether I approve this message.) It’s maybe a little late for that outrage, unfortunately, considering Ilene Chaiken co-opted it in “The Real L-Word” to signify the “power of the clam.” (With purple retro-rave lights zooming from the vertices.) 

That was a few years ago and OWS’ co-opting of that hand-signal is miles more meaningful, useful and less destructive to lesbian political and social progress. Also, my younger gaymo friends consider I. Chaiken’s version a very lame, TV-stupid joke. What a shining knight of progress that gal’s been for the movement.(Caveat: I am a genderqueer dyke, but speak only for this single genderqueer dyke who’s not young, but not old, is an activist and supports OWS. And I have no idea whether I approve this message.)

]]> By: artaxerxes http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300398 artaxerxes Mon, 19 Dec 2011 04:46:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300398 As a passionately-democratic CEO of several companies (for better and for worse, but mostly better, I hope), I share your admiration for these efforts at building effective languages and achieving consensus. It's so easy to criticize this type of process that's messy and extraordinarily challenging, and I'm very impressed, a bit awed really, by the achievements of the disparate members of this movement.  When I remember how terrifying it was living through the decade of comprehensive silence that choked this country's democratic voice while we watched a series of dreadful lies and crimes pile one upon the other, I'm even more impressed at the incredible progress OWS has made over such an historically brief period of time. Or maybe the dizzying rate of the movement's progress is simply a reaction to that unnatural silence that filled the brief spaces between the aggressively vacuous "0% Percent Down!" and "Mission Accomplished!" laugh-track of Cheney's reign.  Whatever the driving force, I'm encouraged and impressed at OWS' success and I'll be doing whatever I can to support it. We're facing what promises to be a wildly chaotic historical correction. Might as well do whatever possible now, bringing OWS' initiatives and future candidates to our electoral system, however crippled, instead of mimicking pre-WWI Europe and waltzing into a massive self-conflagration. As a passionately-democratic CEO of several companies (for better and for worse, but mostly better, I hope), I share your admiration for these efforts at building effective languages and achieving consensus. It’s so easy to criticize this type of process that’s messy and extraordinarily challenging, and I’m very impressed, a bit awed really, by the achievements of the disparate members of this movement. 

When I remember how terrifying it was living through the decade of comprehensive silence that choked this country’s democratic voice while we watched a series of dreadful lies and crimes pile one upon the other, I’m even more impressed at the incredible progress OWS has made over such an historically brief period of time.

Or maybe the dizzying rate of the movement’s progress is simply a reaction to that unnatural silence that filled the brief spaces between the aggressively vacuous “0% Percent Down!” and “Mission Accomplished!” laugh-track of Cheney’s reign. 

Whatever the driving force, I’m encouraged and impressed at OWS’ success and I’ll be doing whatever I can to support it. We’re facing what promises to be a wildly chaotic historical correction. Might as well do whatever possible now, bringing OWS’ initiatives and future candidates to our electoral system, however crippled, instead of mimicking pre-WWI Europe and waltzing into a massive self-conflagration.

]]> By: travtastic http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300352 travtastic Mon, 19 Dec 2011 01:03:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300352 Shotgun elections. Shotgun elections.

]]> By: hypnosifl http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300331 hypnosifl Sun, 18 Dec 2011 22:59:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300331 Well that article says an O-shaped hand signal could be mistaken for ASL "vagina" but it doesn't say what a correctly formed version of the sign would look like. I would think it would have the flat part of the triangle on top and the pointy part on the bottom, the opposite of the OWS signal, but maybe I'm just falling prey to the ASL version of onomatopoeia... Well that article says an O-shaped hand signal could be mistaken for ASL “vagina” but it doesn’t say what a correctly formed version of the sign would look like. I would think it would have the flat part of the triangle on top and the pointy part on the bottom, the opposite of the OWS signal, but maybe I’m just falling prey to the ASL version of onomatopoeia…

]]> By: hypnosifl http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300329 hypnosifl Sun, 18 Dec 2011 22:54:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300329 I think there is something a little creepy about having "the wisdom of the crowd" micromanage every little decision, it's like government-by-giant-ouija-board. And having too many specific policy decisions made by "the people" doesn't always work so well in practice, look at how all those ballot initiatives have messed up California's budget. You do have a point that a system where people are only engaged every four years isn't great either, but I think an ideal world would be one where you do have elected leaders making a lot of decisions, but citizens would be a lot more engaged in putting pressures on them during the periods between elections. By the same token, I think <a href="http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/97711/occupy-wall-street-organization-leadership" rel="nofollow">this article</a> makes a good case that OWS functions more effectively with some sort of leadership structure in place--that kind of structure doesn't preclude plenty of input from people who aren't the leaders (including input-via-hand-signals, which I'm not creeped out by in itself, just the accompanying rhetoric you sometimes hear that this should be the *only* basis for decision-making in OWS), but like the article says it's better to be straightforward about the elements of hierarchy there than to pretend it's a perfectly democratic collective (or that such a thing would even be desirable). I think there is something a little creepy about having “the wisdom of the crowd” micromanage every little decision, it’s like government-by-giant-ouija-board. And having too many specific policy decisions made by “the people” doesn’t always work so well in practice, look at how all those ballot initiatives have messed up California’s budget. You do have a point that a system where people are only engaged every four years isn’t great either, but I think an ideal world would be one where you do have elected leaders making a lot of decisions, but citizens would be a lot more engaged in putting pressures on them during the periods between elections. By the same token, I think this article makes a good case that OWS functions more effectively with some sort of leadership structure in place–that kind of structure doesn’t preclude plenty of input from people who aren’t the leaders (including input-via-hand-signals, which I’m not creeped out by in itself, just the accompanying rhetoric you sometimes hear that this should be the *only* basis for decision-making in OWS), but like the article says it’s better to be straightforward about the elements of hierarchy there than to pretend it’s a perfectly democratic collective (or that such a thing would even be desirable).

]]> By: Thomas Juette http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300306 Thomas Juette Sun, 18 Dec 2011 22:11:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300306 ;) ;)

]]> By: Tyler Yoder http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300305 Tyler Yoder Sun, 18 Dec 2011 22:10:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300305 Geez, someone always Hastur make a punny reply, don't they? Geez, someone always Hastur make a punny reply, don’t they?

]]> By: raven2120 http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300241 raven2120 Sun, 18 Dec 2011 19:01:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300241 No...  Creepy is perhaps too strong of a word.  Annoyance or perhaps scorn would be better.  The decision making of OWS strikes me as singularly ineffectual and these hand gesture are a cause and symptom of that.  Consensus decision making is one of those practices that sound great in concept, like communism, but are disastrously ineffective when implemented in a rigorous manner.  There are things to learn from the idea of consensus decision making and communism but taken as a whole they aren't workable.  There is always room for improvements to the system but I don't see it coming from OWS. No…  Creepy is perhaps too strong of a word.  Annoyance or perhaps scorn would be better.  The decision making of OWS strikes me as singularly ineffectual and these hand gesture are a cause and symptom of that.  Consensus decision making is one of those practices that sound great in concept, like communism, but are disastrously ineffective when implemented in a rigorous manner.  There are things to learn from the idea of consensus decision making and communism but taken as a whole they aren’t workable.  There is always room for improvements to the system but I don’t see it coming from OWS.

]]> By: PhosPhorious http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300220 PhosPhorious Sun, 18 Dec 2011 17:59:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300220 Yeah. . . <i>but how can you be sure</i>?!? Yeah. . . but how can you be sure?!?

]]> By: HenryPootel http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300203 HenryPootel Sun, 18 Dec 2011 17:42:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300203 Do they all repeat the hand gestures back after someone does them?  That would be kind of cute. Do they all repeat the hand gestures back after someone does them?  That would be kind of cute.

]]> By: schubiedoobie99 http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300190 schubiedoobie99 Sun, 18 Dec 2011 17:24:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300190 Point of process looks exactly like the ASL sign for vagina, just saying. http://www.addictedtoquack.com/2011/11/19/2573006/if-youre-o-looks-like-vagina-in-asl-youre-definitely-doing-it-wrong http://www.sportsgrid.com/ncaa-football/oregon-o-sign-vagina/ Point of process looks exactly like the ASL sign for vagina, just saying.

http://www.addictedtoquack.com/2011/11/19/2573006/if-youre-o-looks-like-vagina-in-asl-youre-definitely-doing-it-wrong http://www.sportsgrid.com/ncaa-football/oregon-o-sign-vagina/

]]> By: travtastic http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300181 travtastic Sun, 18 Dec 2011 16:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300181 https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=police+brutality+vermont https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=police+brutality+vermont

]]> By: แอ็ะปปี้ http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300176 แอ็ะปปี้ Sun, 18 Dec 2011 16:35:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300176 there's not a lot of police brutality in vermont. I understand there's many many places in the US where it is a major issue (Oakland and NYC, etc.) But seems kind of general and hostile coming from a bunch of white kids in friggin Vermont. Maybe "No justice, no peace, de-escalate police armamentation in a responsible manner." there’s not a lot of police brutality in vermont. I understand there’s many many places in the US where it is a major issue (Oakland and NYC, etc.) But seems kind of general and hostile coming from a bunch of white kids in friggin Vermont. Maybe “No justice, no peace, de-escalate police armamentation in a responsible manner.”

]]> By: PhosPhorious http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300126 PhosPhorious Sun, 18 Dec 2011 14:28:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300126 In hyberborean, that rhymes! In hyberborean, that rhymes!

]]> By: travtastic http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300081 travtastic Sun, 18 Dec 2011 11:45:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300081 Well, I'm sure a fair number of people did know about that. The question is: can you <i>co-opt</i> the hand-signal version of a three-sided geometric shape? In a completely different context? When everyone is signaling disagreement I don't momentarily think they've all turned to zombies. Well, I’m sure a fair number of people did know about that. The question is: can you co-opt the hand-signal version of a three-sided geometric shape? In a completely different context?

When everyone is signaling disagreement I don’t momentarily think they’ve all turned to zombies.

]]> By: travtastic http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300076 travtastic Sun, 18 Dec 2011 11:35:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300076 <blockquote>I don't know exactly why but something about these hand signals creep me out.</blockquote> The fear of a system involving more than a yank on a lever every four years? Vampires?

I don’t know exactly why but something about these hand signals creep me out.

The fear of a system involving more than a yank on a lever every four years?

Vampires?

]]> By: travtastic http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300073 travtastic Sun, 18 Dec 2011 11:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300073 A Dagon shame. No matter how far we go, we're right back where we started. <b>Edit:</b> Looks like Mighty Cthulhu is haunting my comments now. A Dagon shame. No matter how far we go, we’re right back where we started.

Edit: Looks like Mighty Cthulhu is haunting my comments now.

]]> By: travtastic http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300071 travtastic Sun, 18 Dec 2011 11:28:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300071 There should really be some motion lines on those fingers in the first three. There should really be some motion lines on those fingers in the first three.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300069 Antinous / Moderator Sun, 18 Dec 2011 11:25:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300069 We've already experienced non-Euclidean bookkeeping. How bad could the geometry be? We’ve already experienced non-Euclidean bookkeeping. How bad could the geometry be?

]]> By: travtastic http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300067 travtastic Sun, 18 Dec 2011 11:24:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300067 That's so silly of you, gold star! That’s so silly of you, gold star!

]]> By: travtastic http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300064 travtastic Sun, 18 Dec 2011 11:21:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300064 Thankfully, those criticisms can't be made of every single other thing that humans do in a group. Thankfully, those criticisms can’t be made of every single other thing that humans do in a group.

]]> By: travtastic http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300063 travtastic Sun, 18 Dec 2011 11:20:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300063 https://whiskeypants.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/occupy1.jpg https://whiskeypants.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/occupy1.jpg

]]> By: travtastic http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300062 travtastic Sun, 18 Dec 2011 11:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300062 I second this motion! I second this motion!

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/occupy-wall-street-hand-signal.html#comment-1300061 Antinous / Moderator Sun, 18 Dec 2011 11:14:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=134854#comment-1300061 <blockquote>Chanting against police brutality is too radical for you?</blockquote>Maybe they were chanting <i>ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn</i>.

Chanting against police brutality is too radical for you?

Maybe they were chanting ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn.

]]>