Did a UK fashion marketer rip off logo for iconic punk band CRASS?

At left, the CRASS logo, first seen in the mid-1970s. Center and right, a recent design for the UK garment retailer "Hardware," which appears to have repurposed the CRASS logo after 35 years of prior use, and crassly so. Punk News says the band and their label are aware of it. More at exclaim.ca, and Cult Punk. As an aside: I used to own the vinyl 45 for the Crass release shown above. Almost got a tattoo for it. (via Doctor Popular)

Boing Boing editor/partner and tech culture journalist Xeni Jardin hosts and produces Boing Boing's in-flight TV channel on Virgin America airlines (#10 on the dial), and writes about living with breast cancer. Diagnosed in 2011. @xeni on Twitter. email: xeni@boingboing.net.

MORE: Copyfight • design • let's you and him fight • punk

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ryuchi

A similar sign appeared in the fields of England this year and also it is similar to the Thule Society’s emblem–the occult circle where Hitler started to feed ideology from:
England:
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2011/stonehenge2/StonehengeOH_800.jpg

fascist Thule:
http://www.alef.net/ALEFThings/Swastikas/ThuleSociety.Gif
- Tchoutoye
  
  They’re not similar at all. The Thule society logo is clearly a swastika without a snake, while the Crass logo is a snake on an unhooked cross, thus not a swastika.
  - Victor Ramirez
    
    They crop circle is exactly like the Crass logo. How can you not see it? Crass simply added a text circle on the outside and removed the center circle.
    - Ripcord2
      
      Because Tchoutoye was talking about the Thule society logo, not the crop circle?
    - Sharangir
      
      That crop circle appeared in 2011.
clenchner

Xeni is the coolest person ever. And I hope that somehow this results in massive cash landing on all ex Crass members in the form of a lawsuit.
- Tchoutoye
  
  Somehow I have difficulty picturing anarchists filing lawsuits. Of course Jello Biafra did, but then he never wore political anarchy on his sleeve.
- http://www.facebook.com/glenphillips Glen Phillips
  
  Do they owe Crass a living? Of course they do, of course they do.
  Do they owe Crass a living……..?
- Fnordius
  
  Considering how quicly they modified the logo, I suspect it will eventually result in a statement along the lines of “oops, our bad, we weren’t paying attention when the designer cooked it up. He’s modified it now, and is very sorry and has been sufficiently whipped with heavy chains.”
azaner

Looks like a rip-off to me. What I can’t figure out is how this post squares with all the anti-intellectual-property posts I read on BB. Is it only “fair use” when the user is someone you like?
- http://www.xeni.net/ Xeni Jardin
  
  obvious troll is obvious.
  - http://twitter.com/MartianEmpress Rezeya Montecore
    
    Dismissive Boingboinger is dismissive. Sorry, Xeni, calling ‘em like I see ‘em. I just really hate these labeling tactics, as if you don’t have to deal with somebody’s points if you can say “Aha! I bet you’re one of $EASILY_DISMISSABLE_OUTSIDER_GROUP.” I hate that crap from the rank and file on Reddit, and I hate it coming from the fingers of Internet celebrities I might otherwise get to like. :(
    
    I know we’ve all heard these questions a million times before, here, but maybe this dude has not followed your site’s illustrious career quite as closely as you assume? Would it really kill you to do Intellectual Property Ethics 101 for someone who asked an honest question? If not, could you not make sweeping assumptions about his sincerity because he’s questioning Sacred Doctrine? (Sacred Doctrine of yours that I mostly AGREE with, but that’s not the point at all.)
    - http://pulse.yahoo.com/_I34PZBNWNUVIU4MWBC7B5LGLFA Aron
      
      comment 1 azaner”i have no knowledge of copyright law and believe you are all hypocrites”
      comment 2 xeni”we should ignore comments that end with an insult”
      comment 3 bardfinn-(a summary and interpretation of 17 U.S.C. § 107 )
      comment 4 kmoser”in my opinion your summary of 17 U.S.C. § 107 is flawed”
      comment 5 aron”princess bride what an awesome movie”
      comment 6 bjacques”to kmoser, your opinion is flawed”
      comment 7 Rezeya Montecore”to xeni, you are wrong you should reply to asaner with a summary and interpretation of 17 U.S.C. § 107.
      comment 8 aron”cyclical patterns in discussion of united states copyright law”
    - Antinous / Moderator
      
      Or maybe you could do some intensive research, like maybe reading the Comment Policy, so that you’d realize that BB is a collective of bloggers with different opinions on different subjects and that there is no party line on IP issues, which azaner has reduced to a trollsnark sound bite. And azaner has been around here long enough to know better.
- bardfinn
  
  There’s a difference between the reference of culture to further develop culture and the appropriation of culture to make moolah. That is the difference between fair use and rip off.
  - http://www.kmoser.com kmoser
    
    By your logic, if I appropriate your design but don’t make money from it, that’s fair use–even if I take credit for the work and deny you had anything to do with it.
    
    The problem is, money is only one of many forms of compensation that can be derived from a work.
    - http://pulse.yahoo.com/_I34PZBNWNUVIU4MWBC7B5LGLFA Aron
      
      I wonder if it occurs to anyone in this comment thread that “fair use” is an intellectual property law.
    - bjacques
      
      But then you become That Guy. And just as there are non-monetary kinds of compensation (e.g., moral right to recognition as creator), for appropriating it there are sanctions other than lawsuits.
- Ambiguity
  
  What I can’t figure out is how this post squares with all the anti-intellectual-property posts I read on BB.
  
  There is a difference between being “anti-IP” and believing that the current interpretation of such law is out-of-balance with regards to the right’s-holders and the common good. In general, I don’t see BB posts as being anti-IP, so much as believing that the cultural commons is being increasingly gutted for the profits of said right’s holders. (An opinion I share.)
  
  But I also agree with Rezeya Montecore, and find it unkind that some BBers seem more comfortable with ad hominen responses than with taking a few minutes to clarify their opinions.
- Victor Ramirez
  
  I never comment but was about to write the same thing.
John Deckert

This kind of art is mechanical of design, so let’s not have a contest to see who was first to interlock wide circle bands. Here is a link to one of MANY paintings by Frank Stella. This one from 1970 and there are more . . . many more . . . please know that the arts grow by growing, not by getting all fidgety of brainy part. You get to be original by doing something that can’t be origined again. Copied, yes, but not birthed. http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS5G7ylkVrnkYV4unehozS45JjdmuIWW54lGDc5zTEYqFOZGCu5
- http://www.xeni.net/ Xeni Jardin
  
  I’d never thought of the Frank Stella similarity!
  
  But the visual kinship between that Stella painting and the Crass logo is one thing, and the copy-paste cloning that seems evident in the Hardware logo is another matter entirely.
  - jerryeast
    
    In a way, this sort of thing can be traced back to The Book of Kells and a gazillion other Celtic interlocking variations
    
    http://www.timedance.co.uk/Images/bain.jpg
    - Marktech
      
      I have a mug with those beardpullers on it.
      
      My first thought dates me -
i_prefer_yeti

Their Whorewear collection is particularly crass.
http://twitter.com/bazimmerman Brad Zimmerman

Funny how a few small changes can turn a fairly cool bit of artwork into something very dull and bland. It seems as though the only bit of artwork that designers/fashion people care about any more is the logo of the company that made the article of clothing/sunglasses/purse/whatever. It’s boring.
Nylund

I still own a Crass shirt from way back in the day. For the most part, it’s solely a “workout at the gym” shirt these days, given the shape it’s in, but my wife doesn’t like me wearing it because she thinks it looks too much like a swastika when just glanced at quickly.
Antinous / Moderator

It looks like an heraldic circular strap design.
PaulDavisTheFirst

they appear to have changed their logo already.
oasisob1

What is this vinyl 45 of which you speak?
Edamame

When there is no authority but yourself, who enforces IP rights?

This is the second time the crass logo has crept into high fashion.
The last appropriator was Jean-Paul Gaultier.
Amusingly, British Football Icon David Beckam was often photographed in his Crass/JPG t-shirt!
I wonder if he knew much about it’s symbolism?

Crass’ feelings on the subject?
Steve Ignorant would like some dosh from the designers.
Penny Rimbaud is just loveably philosophically about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9tExxOsk00

My opinion – that logo was specifically designed to go out into the world
and do some culture jamming…
What great energy there was in the graphic design of the punk era!
- Sharangir
  
  To be fair, in an anarchist society there would not be consumerist capitalism like there is now.
jambon

Terrible, awful grammar in the headline – It could be ‘of” or ‘from’ but definitely not ‘for’. The UK fashion brand did not rip off the band’s logo FOR the band did they? Perhaps they did. Maybe the UK fashion brand entered into a cynical marketing ploy with the band to gain some currency for the ageing punkers???
- http://twitter.com/MartianEmpress Rezeya Montecore
  
  (Disclaimer: The following in all in good sport and purely IMHO, Jambon. TWO PEDANTS WILL ENTER THE CAGE OF DEATH. ONLY ONE WILL LEAVE! :) That said…)
  
  It’s “the logo FOR the band Crass.” Taken in isolation like that, the usage is a little eccentric, but I don’t see anything wrong with it, myself. The preposition is perfectly appropriate; the way I see it, you had to made the unnecessary assumption that “for iconic punk band Crass” modifies “ripped off,” and not the IMHO far more sensible interpretation where it modifies “logo.” Without that deliberate misconstruction, I don’t feel there’s nearly as much to criticize.
  
  I do think you’re right that their usage introduces ambiguity that is a bit inelegant; I also think “terrible, awful grammar” is a drastic exaggeration for all but the Lynne Truss crowd, who are nice people in general but generally best avoided at cocktail parties. ;)
bardfinn

The telling bit is the eyes/notches.
agrovista

everything is a remix
- http://profiles.google.com/andrew.l.wood Andrew Wood
  
  Not everything is pure plagiarism.
Stephen Young

Get that girl something to eat!
- http://twitter.com/petitepoubelle petite poubelle
  
  I’m pretty sure that’s a mannequin.
http://www.facebook.com/christopheaton Christopher Eaton

Isn’t Crass’s logo intentionally anti-fascist? The circle-backslash “no” symbol over some sort of fascist cross. I feel like I read that somewhere.
http://profiles.google.com/andrew.l.wood Andrew Wood

Why is the title of this post a question?
http://noctilucent-studios.blogspot.com/ Noctilucent Studios

Did they? In a word, Yes.
penguinchris

Couple things… as mentioned they’ve already changed the logo (it looks like it was a quick-and-dirty redo).

Also, their clothes are, well, ridiculous. I can’t imagine anyone – even counter-culture people who wear weird stuff – wearing any of it.

Finally – their registered business address is apparently a houseboat on the Thames. There must be some reason or advantage to doing this?
fidel_funk

Great ol’ logo, i still have a couple of their vinyl albums – don’t recall ever hearing them,- one of those bands famous for their artwork rather than the music….
- http://twitter.com/petitepoubelle petite poubelle
  
  Wrong, wrong, wrong. Both Crass and The Ex jam packed their records with art and goodies, but it was second to the music. Just because you never listened to the “vinyl albums” you own doesn’t mean they are a band known more for their graphic design aesthetic than their music.
ahannon

We are never done resisting recuperation.

Do they owe Crass an apology?

OF COURSE THEY FUCKING DO.
- http://twitter.com/morgansher Morgan Sheridan
  
  They not only owe Crass an apology, they should owe damages and royalties for copyright infringement and be forced to pull the product off the shelves and attempt a recall of what was sold.
ahannon

Also, Crass had a show of artwork in the fall at the wonderful Boo-Hooray Gallery. The website for the show had a ton of artwork and is still up (I don’t work for them, just think Boo-Hooray and Crass are both pretty great).

http://boo-hooray.com/crass-fanzines/in-all-our-decadence-people-die/
eltiki

I think the issue is not about some absolutist IP ideology, but comes down to ethics and intent. Crass were a non-profit collective of anarchists. It’s just totally wrong to turn their symbol into some kind of fashion icon. It’s evil.