– Straw Men Atheists of America (2012)

I said that in many black communities churches DO good things

The people attending the church are doing these things. And unless they’re doing them strictly out of a fear of a Jesus Spanking, they’d do them without a church.

Vishnu, Shiva and Brahma and all their avatars are not personified deities?

They’re aspects of undifferentiated consciousness. Not really that different from archetypes.

Christian and Jewish activists are in fact responsible for ending slavery.

As well as many Transcendentalists. And how many people publicly identified themselves as atheists in the 18th and 19th centuries? You keep ranting about strawmen, but you keep building them.

Yeah because good people just spring magically from the ground.

You’re projecting your own self-loathing again.

All religion is equally believing in gods.

In Hinduism, ‘God’ is primal, undifferentiated consciousness.

Seriously, have you met ‘catholic’ African Americans? There can’t be that many.

I’d like to introduce you to a friend of mine. Ipo, Louisiana. Louisiana, Ipo.

In exchange, I leave you with the following exercise in self-knowledge. Which of these looks more like a sweeping generalization used to support negative judgments about a large group:

 ”Not all religion is equal. Most black churches play important roles in the community; others … are no better than scams.”

“By far and away most atheists I have met are deeply ignorant of religion, incapable of calm rational debate and highly emotional anti-religious bigots. … I get that quite a lot. It speaks volumes about you. “

Thanks.

“If something exists [...] saying it is bad and exists is not attacking a straw man.”

True but that wasn’t what was said. The implication was that prosperity theology was representative of Christianity.

“An example of attacking a strawman would be like if one person claimed “Some churches are good, but those that teach the prosperity gospel are bad,” and someone responded by pretending they’d said “The prosperity gospel is bad so all Christianity is bad.”"

True but I didn’t pretend there was a sweeping generalization. There actually was one.

“I’m sure if we look around the internet we can find an example of something like that.”

As an agnostic who argues against both sides I am well aware of what one can find on the intertubes. By far and away most atheists I have met are deeply ignorant of religion, incapable of calm rational debate and highly emotional anti-religious bigots. Most tell me that the Westboro Baptist Church are the only “true” Christians. I get that quite a lot. It speaks volumes about you.

Perhaps the proper response to this would be to say something like:  “Not all religion is equal. Most… churches play important roles in the community; others … are no better than scams.” If only someone had introduced that sort of idea into the discussion already.

If something exists, like the prosperity gospel does, saying it is bad and exists is not attacking a straw man. An example of attacking a strawman would be like if one person claimed “Some churches are good, but those that teach the prosperity gospel are bad,” and someone responded by pretending they’d said “The prosperity gospel is bad so all Christianity is bad.” I’m sure if we look around the internet we can find an example of something like that.

Yes.

“Because I’ve heard it preached on Christian radio and television ministries. ”

Maybe you should look up what strawman means. It does not mean what you think it does.

“there are plenty of scams that are carried out under the banner of religion”

There are plenty of scams carried out under the banner of atheism, therefore atheism is a scam. Right?

“To deny that is to enable them”

Denying that prosperity theology represents Christianity does not enable it any more than denying Bernie Madoff’s ponzie scheme represents the stock market enables him. Medical scammers pose as doctors but this does not mean that medicine is a scam.

“you might also give some thought to why there are so many unambiguously “white churches” and “black churches”"

I have. America is a racist nation that is socially segregated along racial and ethnic lines. Christian and Jewish activists are in fact responsible for ending slavery. Not atheists. Further, no where in any of the major religions can I find any basis for racial divisions. In fact just the opposite. All major religions promote the universal family of man (in their own ways), compassion for the other, and the importance of the individual above the needs of the state. Atheism has nothing to say on these because there is no such thing as atheism. A “lack” of something cannot be a presence of anything.

But don’t take my word for it. Follow up the sources for this heavily footnoted wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology

Also, since this post wasn’t about white atheists, perhaps you shouldn’t take SedanChair’s focus on black churches as intended to imply anything about white ones. Not everything is about you.

But while we’re on the subject you might also give some thought to why there are so many unambiguously “white churches” and “black churches” given the claimed universality of the Christian faith.

There is good reason to suspect that Adolf Hitler and Nazism were inspired by atheist philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche who was anti-democracy, anti-Christianity, expressed his belief in a master race and the coming of a superman in many of his works. Hitler’s Mein Kampf borrows many of Nietzsche’s ideas and seems to have been influenced by him. Especially his “Will to Power” with it’s emphasis on purity of breeding, the need to exterminate the weak and reject the “slave morality” of the Jews. Even if Hitler misunderstood Nietzsche, it’s a pretty damn odd belief for a “devout” Catholic to hold. Add to that the fact that fascist philosophers such as Schimdt believed that the masses *need* religion it is entirely conceivable that Hitler merely used religion as a means to power. Which, since he “lacked belief” would make him an atheist. And… since according to atheists bad Christians prove that Christianity is bad, bad atheists must therefore prove that atheism is bad…. right?

“Most black churches play important roles in the community” — So do white churches. Where I live every single homeless shelter and food shelf is run by or exists because of so-called “white” churches. Could you please direct me to the Atheist funded and run homeless shelters?

As usual for the ignorant atheists who comment on blogs your strawman “prosperity ministry” is full of straw. There is not a single reputable theological seminary that believes in your strawman version of Christianity.

There need to be alternatives, and it’s a good idea for students to be made aware that they are not alone, that there’s more to the church. And there really is. Too many African-American activists are “forgotten” because they were Islamic, atheist, communist, or some other persuasion that is difficult to accept. It’s relatively easy to have a holiday for Dr. King, but I doubt we’ll ever publicly acknowledge, much less have holidays for, people like A. Philip Randolph.

Religious conversion is the adoption of a new religion that differs from the convert’s previous religion. 
As atheism is a religion in much the same way as abstinence is a sexual position (not), I doubt that anyone can convert to it. 
“Revert” maybe an accurate term, since without the intense childhood indoctrination, that is all of the successful religions modus operandi, only schizophrenics would have invisible ever-present beings. 

I’m thinking most atheists aren’t trying to make people dump their religious beliefs, but show those that don’t really have them to consider if they need to pretend.   Far less people are religious than think they are. 
It’s fairly obvious sometimes. 
Looking at all versions of the new testament, the supposed teachings of Christ, who could say that most republicans are Christians?