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	<title>Comments on: Kidnapped for Christ: documentary about children whose parents rendered them to offshore militarized discipline&#160;camp</title>
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	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: Verris</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349599</link>
		<dc:creator>Verris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 21:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349599</guid>
		<description>Exactly.  It can&#039;t simply be that some Christians are just bad people.  Funnily enough most Christians I know don&#039;t hesitate to classify Muslims as either &quot;good Muslims&quot; or &quot;bad Muslims&quot; rather than &quot;true Muslims or &quot;not really Muslims at all.&quot; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly.  It can&#8217;t simply be that some Christians are just bad people.  Funnily enough most Christians I know don&#8217;t hesitate to classify Muslims as either &#8220;good Muslims&#8221; or &#8220;bad Muslims&#8221; rather than &#8220;true Muslims or &#8220;not really Muslims at all.&#8221; </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Verris</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349598</link>
		<dc:creator>Verris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 21:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349598</guid>
		<description>But it IS Christian behavior.  It is fallacious to claim otherwise, because there is nothing to dispute it.  There ARE Biblical Scriptures that support and encourage it.  Claiming otherwise just means you don&#039;t know your Biblical scriptures that well.  It also means you don&#039;t understand that the contradictions in the Bible arise from the fact that it was never meant to be a single, unified book with one overall meaning. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But it IS Christian behavior.  It is fallacious to claim otherwise, because there is nothing to dispute it.  There ARE Biblical Scriptures that support and encourage it.  Claiming otherwise just means you don&#8217;t know your Biblical scriptures that well.  It also means you don&#8217;t understand that the contradictions in the Bible arise from the fact that it was never meant to be a single, unified book with one overall meaning. </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Verris</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349595</link>
		<dc:creator>Verris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 21:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349595</guid>
		<description>Why not?  If you claim to be a Christian and don&#039;t want these people who also claim to be a Christian to be associated with you, do you not realize that you aren&#039;t doing yourself any favors by hiding your own religious affiliation? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not?  If you claim to be a Christian and don&#8217;t want these people who also claim to be a Christian to be associated with you, do you not realize that you aren&#8217;t doing yourself any favors by hiding your own religious affiliation? </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Verris</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349592</link>
		<dc:creator>Verris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 20:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349592</guid>
		<description> If it&#039;s not about you, then don&#039;t make it about you.  And no, this is not a hint for you to start in &quot;but but they didn&#039;t specify which Christians, they GENERALIZED OMFG.&quot;  If you&#039;re not one of the Christians being bitched about, then just keep your mouth shut and stop derailing the thread.

The fact is, there are a LOT of Christians--and non-Christians too, I&#039;m betting--whining NOT about the abuse, but about people bitching about Christians in particular and religion in general.  

If you want to complain about the Christian bashing, then do it SOMEWHERE ELSE.  This is NOT the time or place to change the subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> If it&#8217;s not about you, then don&#8217;t make it about you.  And no, this is not a hint for you to start in &#8220;but but they didn&#8217;t specify which Christians, they GENERALIZED OMFG.&#8221;  If you&#8217;re not one of the Christians being bitched about, then just keep your mouth shut and stop derailing the thread.</p>
<p>The fact is, there are a LOT of Christians&#8211;and non-Christians too, I&#8217;m betting&#8211;whining NOT about the abuse, but about people bitching about Christians in particular and religion in general.  </p>
<p>If you want to complain about the Christian bashing, then do it SOMEWHERE ELSE.  This is NOT the time or place to change the subject.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ipo</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349590</link>
		<dc:creator>Ipo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 20:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349590</guid>
		<description> Homeschooling then.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Homeschooling then.  </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Verris</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349539</link>
		<dc:creator>Verris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 18:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349539</guid>
		<description>Close.  

The chief problem of Scripture--and I&#039;m speaking as a Christian-turned Pagan here--is that each individual book within the Bible was NEVER INTENDED by its writer to be part of a definitive volume of other books that came together to create a singular, cohesive whole.  

The fact that there are contradictions between books, especially between the so-called Synoptic Gospels, isn&#039;t because of misinterpretations.  It&#039;s because when these texts were being written, one guy decided he didn&#039;t like Gospel A, so he wrote Gospel B to replace it.  Other people came across Gospel B and maybe didn&#039;t like that it contradicted Gospel A, so they re-wrote Gospel B, keeping it mostly intact but changing a few key phrases.  Along the way, this gospel became known by later Christians as Gospel Ba.  Another Christian, seeing these three gospels, might have thought that they were legitimate Scripture, but couldn&#039;t understand or explain the discrepancies, so they took all three books, rewrote them into a single book, writing out all the contradictions and changing details so that it all fit together.  And meant this to replace all the others, calling it Gospel ABCD.  Then a later Christian came along, and seeing all these gospels, rather than treating them as the individual, complete-in-themselves books they were always intended as, put them all together, called the volume of books a SINGLE book, and said that there were no real contradictions.

This is why there are so many problems.  Christians--and sadly many non-Christians alike--insist on trying to make the Bible be a single book, when that simply is not the reality.  The reason why there are so many contradictions is because NONE of the writers ever intended their books to be read together as a single Scripture.  

What&#039;s funny about the whole thing is that even a lot of non-Christians repeat the myth of the Bible as a singular whole when they try to separate the Biblical scriptures from human believers.  You see this whenever you see someone saying &quot;gee, and here I thought the message Jesus taught of the Bible was love and tolerance, not cherry-picking Scriptures to justify hate.&quot;  The reality is that even the Scripture writers themselves engaged in chery-picking.  This is, again, why we have one Scripture that has Jesus talking about loving thy neighbor while another has him talking about hating your nearest kin.

It isn&#039;t bizarre, it isn&#039;t a mystery, and it certainly isn&#039;t a case of modern readers just misinterpreting a text.  It&#039;s because people blindly insist on trying to make the Scriptures a unified whole when they just weren&#039;t written to be anything like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Close.  </p>
<p>The chief problem of Scripture&#8211;and I&#8217;m speaking as a Christian-turned Pagan here&#8211;is that each individual book within the Bible was NEVER INTENDED by its writer to be part of a definitive volume of other books that came together to create a singular, cohesive whole.  </p>
<p>The fact that there are contradictions between books, especially between the so-called Synoptic Gospels, isn&#8217;t because of misinterpretations.  It&#8217;s because when these texts were being written, one guy decided he didn&#8217;t like Gospel A, so he wrote Gospel B to replace it.  Other people came across Gospel B and maybe didn&#8217;t like that it contradicted Gospel A, so they re-wrote Gospel B, keeping it mostly intact but changing a few key phrases.  Along the way, this gospel became known by later Christians as Gospel Ba.  Another Christian, seeing these three gospels, might have thought that they were legitimate Scripture, but couldn&#8217;t understand or explain the discrepancies, so they took all three books, rewrote them into a single book, writing out all the contradictions and changing details so that it all fit together.  And meant this to replace all the others, calling it Gospel ABCD.  Then a later Christian came along, and seeing all these gospels, rather than treating them as the individual, complete-in-themselves books they were always intended as, put them all together, called the volume of books a SINGLE book, and said that there were no real contradictions.</p>
<p>This is why there are so many problems.  Christians&#8211;and sadly many non-Christians alike&#8211;insist on trying to make the Bible be a single book, when that simply is not the reality.  The reason why there are so many contradictions is because NONE of the writers ever intended their books to be read together as a single Scripture.  </p>
<p>What&#8217;s funny about the whole thing is that even a lot of non-Christians repeat the myth of the Bible as a singular whole when they try to separate the Biblical scriptures from human believers.  You see this whenever you see someone saying &#8220;gee, and here I thought the message Jesus taught of the Bible was love and tolerance, not cherry-picking Scriptures to justify hate.&#8221;  The reality is that even the Scripture writers themselves engaged in chery-picking.  This is, again, why we have one Scripture that has Jesus talking about loving thy neighbor while another has him talking about hating your nearest kin.</p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t bizarre, it isn&#8217;t a mystery, and it certainly isn&#8217;t a case of modern readers just misinterpreting a text.  It&#8217;s because people blindly insist on trying to make the Scriptures a unified whole when they just weren&#8217;t written to be anything like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Origami_Isopod</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349418</link>
		<dc:creator>Origami_Isopod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349418</guid>
		<description>Actually, if I had children I wouldn&#039;t want to them to attend &lt;a href=&quot;http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/08/21/quacks-everywhere/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;schools that served up a daily diet of woo and assorted other bullshit&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, if I had children I wouldn&#8217;t want to them to attend <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/08/21/quacks-everywhere/" rel="nofollow">schools that served up a daily diet of woo and assorted other bullshit</a>.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Origami_Isopod</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349416</link>
		<dc:creator>Origami_Isopod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349416</guid>
		<description>Yes, it&#039;s simply wrong. And examining why some people think it&#039;s right obliges us to move beyond the fallacy that &quot;We can all agree it&#039;s simply wrong&quot; and understand why some people disagree. That means examining the poisonous root of authoritarian religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it&#8217;s simply wrong. And examining why some people think it&#8217;s right obliges us to move beyond the fallacy that &#8220;We can all agree it&#8217;s simply wrong&#8221; and understand why some people disagree. That means examining the poisonous root of authoritarian religion.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Origami_Isopod</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349414</link>
		<dc:creator>Origami_Isopod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349414</guid>
		<description>No. Because the dogma of the religion fuels this fuckery. The vast majority of atheists don&#039;t care if someone is not gender-conforming. Same for the vast majority of vegetarians, physicists, and dentists. It&#039;s long past time we started talking about this, rather than dance around it with ecumenical weasel words designed to coddle the feelings of liberal xtians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No. Because the dogma of the religion fuels this fuckery. The vast majority of atheists don&#8217;t care if someone is not gender-conforming. Same for the vast majority of vegetarians, physicists, and dentists. It&#8217;s long past time we started talking about this, rather than dance around it with ecumenical weasel words designed to coddle the feelings of liberal xtians.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Origami_Isopod</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349413</link>
		<dc:creator>Origami_Isopod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349413</guid>
		<description>The fundies would prefer that their children die or be emotionally broken than &quot;fall into Satan&#039;s clutches,&quot; as they would put it. They are simply that morally debased. Many Americans do not want to believe this because fundies are so &quot;nice&quot; (polite and cheerful), and because they&#039;re conditioned to believe that nice white middle-class and upper-class people could never be evil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fundies would prefer that their children die or be emotionally broken than &#8220;fall into Satan&#8217;s clutches,&#8221; as they would put it. They are simply that morally debased. Many Americans do not want to believe this because fundies are so &#8220;nice&#8221; (polite and cheerful), and because they&#8217;re conditioned to believe that nice white middle-class and upper-class people could never be evil.</p>
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		<title>By: Origami_Isopod</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349408</link>
		<dc:creator>Origami_Isopod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349408</guid>
		<description>I love how xtians act as though atheists have never been xtians or other theists themselves... and certainly never read the bible. Most atheists in the west know their Wholly Babble better than most xtians do. In fact, it&#039;s often *why* they&#039;re atheists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love how xtians act as though atheists have never been xtians or other theists themselves&#8230; and certainly never read the bible. Most atheists in the west know their Wholly Babble better than most xtians do. In fact, it&#8217;s often *why* they&#8217;re atheists.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Origami_Isopod</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349407</link>
		<dc:creator>Origami_Isopod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349407</guid>
		<description>&quot;the perpetrators will surely feel the righteous fury of Jesus Christ just as He had when He threw the money lenders out from His Fathers house.&quot;

Yeah, keep pretending that your imaginary friend will kick their asses. Because then we don&#039;t have to bother fighting for justice in THIS world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the perpetrators will surely feel the righteous fury of Jesus Christ just as He had when He threw the money lenders out from His Fathers house.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, keep pretending that your imaginary friend will kick their asses. Because then we don&#8217;t have to bother fighting for justice in THIS world.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Origami_Isopod</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349405</link>
		<dc:creator>Origami_Isopod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349405</guid>
		<description>No, how about YOU clean up YOUR house instead of whining at us that just because there&#039;s a meth lab in the basement doesn&#039;t mean it should be condemned, because the upstairs rooms are awfully pretty!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, how about YOU clean up YOUR house instead of whining at us that just because there&#8217;s a meth lab in the basement doesn&#8217;t mean it should be condemned, because the upstairs rooms are awfully pretty!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Origami_Isopod</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349403</link>
		<dc:creator>Origami_Isopod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349403</guid>
		<description>Of course. Who cares about addressing pieces of property?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course. Who cares about addressing pieces of property?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Origami_Isopod</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349401</link>
		<dc:creator>Origami_Isopod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349401</guid>
		<description>Fuck &quot;nice.&quot; It&#039;s &lt;i&gt;right&lt;/i&gt;. Your beliefs aren&#039;t sacred to those of us who don&#039;t share them. There is no good reason they shouldn&#039;t be challenged the way other bad ideas are. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fuck &#8220;nice.&#8221; It&#8217;s <i>right</i>. Your beliefs aren&#8217;t sacred to those of us who don&#8217;t share them. There is no good reason they shouldn&#8217;t be challenged the way other bad ideas are. </p>
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		<title>By: Origami_Isopod</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349402</link>
		<dc:creator>Origami_Isopod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349402</guid>
		<description>Oh, so in other words, scripture is a Rorschach blot with no inherent meaning. Therefore, it&#039;s worthless as any basis for ethics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, so in other words, scripture is a Rorschach blot with no inherent meaning. Therefore, it&#8217;s worthless as any basis for ethics.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Origami_Isopod</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349400</link>
		<dc:creator>Origami_Isopod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349400</guid>
		<description>LOL. Right, &quot;secular nuts&quot; are going around kidnapping &quot;rebellious&quot; teens and shunting them off to abuse camps. Or committing &quot;honor killings.&quot; Or trying to pass laws that get GLBT people executed or birth control banned. Oh, well, at least &lt;a href=&quot;http://xkcd.com/774/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;you get to feel superior to both sides&lt;/a&gt;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL. Right, &#8220;secular nuts&#8221; are going around kidnapping &#8220;rebellious&#8221; teens and shunting them off to abuse camps. Or committing &#8220;honor killings.&#8221; Or trying to pass laws that get GLBT people executed or birth control banned. Oh, well, at least <a href="http://xkcd.com/774/" rel="nofollow">you get to feel superior to both sides</a>&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Origami_Isopod</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349397</link>
		<dc:creator>Origami_Isopod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349397</guid>
		<description>Nobody owes your beliefs respect simply because they&#039;re your beliefs. Ideas, which beliefs are, are rightly subject to examination and questioning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody owes your beliefs respect simply because they&#8217;re your beliefs. Ideas, which beliefs are, are rightly subject to examination and questioning.</p>
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		<title>By: Cefeida</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349338</link>
		<dc:creator>Cefeida</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 09:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349338</guid>
		<description>(grrr can&#039;t nest further) I tried as I was typing my comment, just to be thorough. Wasn&#039;t much fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(grrr can&#8217;t nest further) I tried as I was typing my comment, just to be thorough. Wasn&#8217;t much fun.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349197</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 01:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349197</guid>
		<description>Can you imagine a lawyer trying to get the judge to reduce a sentence by saying that the defendant had found Krishna?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you imagine a lawyer trying to get the judge to reduce a sentence by saying that the defendant had found Krishna?</p>
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		<title>By: Cefeida</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1349185</link>
		<dc:creator>Cefeida</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 01:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1349185</guid>
		<description>True, and unfortunate that judges can&#039;t (won&#039;t)tell the difference between a genuine change of heart and mind and a trick.

Also unfortunate that so many people who claim to be Christians continue to reject the best qualities of Christianity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True, and unfortunate that judges can&#8217;t (won&#8217;t)tell the difference between a genuine change of heart and mind and a trick.</p>
<p>Also unfortunate that so many people who claim to be Christians continue to reject the best qualities of Christianity.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1348229</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 23:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1348229</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I rather thought that the christian belief was that god gave us free will so that we could choose to do good or evil?&lt;/blockquote&gt;God gave you free will so that you can choose to do what you&#039;re told.  I learned that from C. S. Lewis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I rather thought that the christian belief was that god gave us free will so that we could choose to do good or evil?</p></blockquote>
<p>God gave you free will so that you can choose to do what you&#8217;re told.  I learned that from C. S. Lewis.</p>
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		<title>By: shadowfirebird</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1348213</link>
		<dc:creator>shadowfirebird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 23:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1348213</guid>
		<description>I rather thought that the christian belief was that god gave us free will so that we could choose to do good or evil?  Which would be completely at odds with what you say.

Besides which, &quot;the bible tells them to do it&quot; doesn&#039;t explain the existence of dogmatic, controlling vegetarians (well, excepting John Hanvey Kellog, etc), or dentists, or atheists.

I rather think that your own blind adherence to your  precepts is stopping you from discussing this topic rationally.  

But none of this has anything to do with child abduction; this will be my last comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I rather thought that the christian belief was that god gave us free will so that we could choose to do good or evil?  Which would be completely at odds with what you say.</p>
<p>Besides which, &#8220;the bible tells them to do it&#8221; doesn&#8217;t explain the existence of dogmatic, controlling vegetarians (well, excepting John Hanvey Kellog, etc), or dentists, or atheists.</p>
<p>I rather think that your own blind adherence to your  precepts is stopping you from discussing this topic rationally.  </p>
<p>But none of this has anything to do with child abduction; this will be my last comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Petersen</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1348127</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Petersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 21:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1348127</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If you taught religion much like you taught Greek mythology, then you are right.&lt;/blockquote&gt; And that&#039;s exactly how my children will learn it.  My wife was given an entirely religion-free childhood, which (to my way of thinking, at any rate) gives her insufficient context for a proper appreciation of culture and ecclesiastical art.  She knows what Michelangelo&#039;s &lt;i&gt;David&lt;/i&gt; is, but I suspect she might not know why he&#039;s standing like that, whom he&#039;s supposed to be looking at, and why he looks simultaneously relaxed and intent.  She and her mother both think that a Noah&#039;s Ark playset is a perfectly harmless toy for our kids, and at this point it is, but at some point I&#039;m gonna have to explain to the kids the context of the story, and why a nominally benevolent Deity felt He had to destroy the world and nearly everyone and every living thing upon it.  And explain that most of the people around us believe that this actually, literally happened.

Part of me really looks forward to the challenge of that conversation.  Most of me wishes I could just treat it like Greek mythology, or a Grimm fairy tale.  Or an old EC comic book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If you taught religion much like you taught Greek mythology, then you are right.</p></blockquote>
<p> And that&#8217;s exactly how my children will learn it.  My wife was given an entirely religion-free childhood, which (to my way of thinking, at any rate) gives her insufficient context for a proper appreciation of culture and ecclesiastical art.  She knows what Michelangelo&#8217;s <i>David</i> is, but I suspect she might not know why he&#8217;s standing like that, whom he&#8217;s supposed to be looking at, and why he looks simultaneously relaxed and intent.  She and her mother both think that a Noah&#8217;s Ark playset is a perfectly harmless toy for our kids, and at this point it is, but at some point I&#8217;m gonna have to explain to the kids the context of the story, and why a nominally benevolent Deity felt He had to destroy the world and nearly everyone and every living thing upon it.  And explain that most of the people around us believe that this actually, literally happened.</p>
<p>Part of me really looks forward to the challenge of that conversation.  Most of me wishes I could just treat it like Greek mythology, or a Grimm fairy tale.  Or an old EC comic book.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Petersen</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1348097</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Petersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 21:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1348097</guid>
		<description>Known a few Waldorf kids myself.  Mileage varies.  As an overall approach applicable to all kids I don&#039;t believe it succeeds or fails any more spectacularly than current California public schools.  It&#039;s certainly gotta be more fun.  I went to CA public schools in the 70s and 80s (both pre- and post-Prop 13), and other than being in a circus I did all the things you mentioned by the age of 15 as well.  Except I still haven&#039;t gotten around to smoking pot.  I was reading at three (my four-year-old daughter reads remarkably well right now), and I wouldn&#039;t have traded my youthful time spent with my nose in a book for all the Elf Faires in the world.

The Waldorf folks certainly have their hearts in the right place, but our kids are going elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Known a few Waldorf kids myself.  Mileage varies.  As an overall approach applicable to all kids I don&#8217;t believe it succeeds or fails any more spectacularly than current California public schools.  It&#8217;s certainly gotta be more fun.  I went to CA public schools in the 70s and 80s (both pre- and post-Prop 13), and other than being in a circus I did all the things you mentioned by the age of 15 as well.  Except I still haven&#8217;t gotten around to smoking pot.  I was reading at three (my four-year-old daughter reads remarkably well right now), and I wouldn&#8217;t have traded my youthful time spent with my nose in a book for all the Elf Faires in the world.</p>
<p>The Waldorf folks certainly have their hearts in the right place, but our kids are going elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Petersen</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1348088</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Petersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 21:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1348088</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;to believe without thinking and follow without question.  its called faith.&lt;/blockquote&gt; I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s wholly accurate.  One is required to believe without concrete evidence, not without thinking.  My scholarship is faulty, no question, but I am unaware of any Biblical scripture, at any rate, that instructs adherents to believe without thinking.  There&#039;s a whole lot that one has to take on faith, but I think even the authors of the religion in question realized that nearly every adherent would have cause to question their faith sooner or later.  And so the failsafe is built into the system: sooner or later you&#039;re probably gonna doubt as stubborn reality keeps butting up against your faith, and so your faith, held in the face of all contrary evidence, is gonna be your price of admission to life everlasting.  You&#039;re going to &lt;b&gt;have&lt;/b&gt; to think about your faith and the ways it contradicts the concrete evidence of existence, the fact that you&#039;ve never laid eyes on your Creator or your Savior, the fact that a large percentage of your prayers don&#039;t apparently get answered, the fact that actual, observable miracles seem awfully few and far between these days, etc., and &lt;b&gt;then&lt;/b&gt; thoughtfully reject the secular contradictions and embrace your faith, or you&#039;re not gonna be Saved.

That conscious rejection of secularity and materialism is, I think, more what Christianity is looking for rather than just blind, unthinking, &quot;because they say so&quot; faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>to believe without thinking and follow without question.  its called faith.</p></blockquote>
<p> I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s wholly accurate.  One is required to believe without concrete evidence, not without thinking.  My scholarship is faulty, no question, but I am unaware of any Biblical scripture, at any rate, that instructs adherents to believe without thinking.  There&#8217;s a whole lot that one has to take on faith, but I think even the authors of the religion in question realized that nearly every adherent would have cause to question their faith sooner or later.  And so the failsafe is built into the system: sooner or later you&#8217;re probably gonna doubt as stubborn reality keeps butting up against your faith, and so your faith, held in the face of all contrary evidence, is gonna be your price of admission to life everlasting.  You&#8217;re going to <b>have</b> to think about your faith and the ways it contradicts the concrete evidence of existence, the fact that you&#8217;ve never laid eyes on your Creator or your Savior, the fact that a large percentage of your prayers don&#8217;t apparently get answered, the fact that actual, observable miracles seem awfully few and far between these days, etc., and <b>then</b> thoughtfully reject the secular contradictions and embrace your faith, or you&#8217;re not gonna be Saved.</p>
<p>That conscious rejection of secularity and materialism is, I think, more what Christianity is looking for rather than just blind, unthinking, &#8220;because they say so&#8221; faith.</p>
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		<title>By: RedShirt77</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1348063</link>
		<dc:creator>RedShirt77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 20:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1348063</guid>
		<description> You are right, but you miss the point.  It advocates fundamentalism in the bible and the very nature of religion.  The system is the forcing.  Occasionally everygroup goes off the rails, but religion actually has it in the instruction manual, to believe without thinking and follow without question.  its called faith.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> You are right, but you miss the point.  It advocates fundamentalism in the bible and the very nature of religion.  The system is the forcing.  Occasionally everygroup goes off the rails, but religion actually has it in the instruction manual, to believe without thinking and follow without question.  its called faith.  </p>
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		<title>By: Teller</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1347913</link>
		<dc:creator>Teller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 18:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1347913</guid>
		<description>Know a young guy who works one of the Utah camps that meets a van at the end of the dirt road carrying teen boys who&#039;ve been &#039;intervened&#039;, or kidnapped, if you will. Not a religious camp, more an outward bound group. He deals with drugged-out teens and the frequently-arrested. He takes small groups way out into the wilderness for a month. There are no matches. They have to learn how to make fire with a bow drill and make it every time they want a hot meal. No coffee, tea, sugar, cigarettes or any stimulants allowed. There&#039;s no counseling at first because, obviously, the boys are super pissed to have been forcibly swiped from their life and put in the middle of nowhere. Slowly, the shock and anger wears off and he earns their trust, probably because he teaches them how to survive in wilderness. Some teens find self-esteem in this and redirect themselves. Some redirect themselves for a while and go back to their former ways. All of them learn invaluable outdoor skills. It&#039;s a very tough solution applied in a tough way. I have mixed feelings about this methodology, but I&#039;d happily backpack with any of those boys. Of course, only if they wanted to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Know a young guy who works one of the Utah camps that meets a van at the end of the dirt road carrying teen boys who&#8217;ve been &#8216;intervened&#8217;, or kidnapped, if you will. Not a religious camp, more an outward bound group. He deals with drugged-out teens and the frequently-arrested. He takes small groups way out into the wilderness for a month. There are no matches. They have to learn how to make fire with a bow drill and make it every time they want a hot meal. No coffee, tea, sugar, cigarettes or any stimulants allowed. There&#8217;s no counseling at first because, obviously, the boys are super pissed to have been forcibly swiped from their life and put in the middle of nowhere. Slowly, the shock and anger wears off and he earns their trust, probably because he teaches them how to survive in wilderness. Some teens find self-esteem in this and redirect themselves. Some redirect themselves for a while and go back to their former ways. All of them learn invaluable outdoor skills. It&#8217;s a very tough solution applied in a tough way. I have mixed feelings about this methodology, but I&#8217;d happily backpack with any of those boys. Of course, only if they wanted to.</p>
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		<title>By: mroooo</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1347889</link>
		<dc:creator>mroooo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1347889</guid>
		<description> Moving the goalposts?

If you teach your children religion - much in the way science or math are taught - then that is indoctrination, as religion is not based in fact, it is based in myth.

If you taught religion much like you taught Greek mythology, then you are right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Moving the goalposts?</p>
<p>If you teach your children religion &#8211; much in the way science or math are taught &#8211; then that is indoctrination, as religion is not based in fact, it is based in myth.</p>
<p>If you taught religion much like you taught Greek mythology, then you are right.</p>
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		<title>By: ShawShaw</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/kidnapped-for-christ-document.html#comment-1347842</link>
		<dc:creator>ShawShaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 15:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=144088#comment-1347842</guid>
		<description>Thank you for the work you do. It&#039;s not easy, and often goes unrecognized. It sounds like you and your facility really strive to help your patients be functional and self sufficient members of society. It&#039;s heart warming to hear about people doing some real lasting good in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the work you do. It&#8217;s not easy, and often goes unrecognized. It sounds like you and your facility really strive to help your patients be functional and self sufficient members of society. It&#8217;s heart warming to hear about people doing some real lasting good in the world.</p>
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