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	<title>Comments on: Arizona Senate votes to let anti-abortion docs lie to pregnant&#160;women</title>
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	<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html</link>
	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: squirrelkiller</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1368360</link>
		<dc:creator>squirrelkiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2012 17:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1368360</guid>
		<description>Thanks for providing the link to the bill, it was thoughtless of me not to include it. Here&#039;s the HTML version for the .pdf wary: http://www.azleg.gov//FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/50leg/2r/bills/sb1359s.htm&amp;Session_ID=107

As for your questions,
(a) an act or omission is something a person meant to do or not do (intentional) or did or did not do so carelessly that the negative result was obvious (grossly negligent).
(b) there are some acts that are required by law, not doing them violates criminal law. An unrelated example might be paying your taxes.
(c) the lack of the evidence of the action being done would be evidence of omission.

As far as placement of the bill in the statutes, note that nothing in the bill restricts it&#039;s jurisdiction to the medical field. The bill applies to everyone, and as such it isn&#039;t too dissimilar to other statutes in that chapter. A hypothetical example might be that a male with an unknown genetic defect would not be liable for wrongful birth if a child he helped conceive expressed the defect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for providing the link to the bill, it was thoughtless of me not to include it. Here&#8217;s the HTML version for the .pdf wary: <a href="http://www.azleg.gov//FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/50leg/2r/bills/sb1359s.htm&#038;Session_ID=107" rel="nofollow">http://www.azleg.gov//FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/50leg/2r/bills/sb1359s.htm&#038;Session_ID=107</a></p>
<p>As for your questions,<br />
(a) an act or omission is something a person meant to do or not do (intentional) or did or did not do so carelessly that the negative result was obvious (grossly negligent).<br />
(b) there are some acts that are required by law, not doing them violates criminal law. An unrelated example might be paying your taxes.<br />
(c) the lack of the evidence of the action being done would be evidence of omission.</p>
<p>As far as placement of the bill in the statutes, note that nothing in the bill restricts it&#8217;s jurisdiction to the medical field. The bill applies to everyone, and as such it isn&#8217;t too dissimilar to other statutes in that chapter. A hypothetical example might be that a male with an unknown genetic defect would not be liable for wrongful birth if a child he helped conceive expressed the defect.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Rucker</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1367265</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Rucker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1367265</guid>
		<description>There is a process - sue, and then appeal the suit all the way up to the US Supreme Court if need be - but that takes millions or even tens of millions of dollars of lawyers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a process &#8211; sue, and then appeal the suit all the way up to the US Supreme Court if need be &#8211; but that takes millions or even tens of millions of dollars of lawyers.</p>
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		<title>By: blueelm</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1366941</link>
		<dc:creator>blueelm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 04:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1366941</guid>
		<description>I apologize for my poor use of the second person in English there. No, I&#039;m not for it. I&#039;m for unquestioned abortion access and the right to sue over withheld information. Some women actually chose to deliver children with extreme disabilities, and that is absolutely fine so long as it is a choice. Not everything is so obvious, especially when you have the backdrop of expecting parents. It&#039;s actually probably pretty easy to lead people to believe something they&#039;d rather believe such as &quot;this test doesn&#039;t likely indicate what it might seem to&quot; and so forth. I say probably there. I know damned well it is easy to mislead people this way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I apologize for my poor use of the second person in English there. No, I&#8217;m not for it. I&#8217;m for unquestioned abortion access and the right to sue over withheld information. Some women actually chose to deliver children with extreme disabilities, and that is absolutely fine so long as it is a choice. Not everything is so obvious, especially when you have the backdrop of expecting parents. It&#8217;s actually probably pretty easy to lead people to believe something they&#8217;d rather believe such as &#8220;this test doesn&#8217;t likely indicate what it might seem to&#8221; and so forth. I say probably there. I know damned well it is easy to mislead people this way.</p>
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		<title>By: tash</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1366911</link>
		<dc:creator>tash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 03:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1366911</guid>
		<description>No, they didn&#039;t actually. A lie would land them in jail.

http://www.constitutionaldaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=1546:az-wrongful-birth-bill-liable-for-wrongful-hysteria&amp;catid=42:news&amp;Itemid=71 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, they didn&#8217;t actually. A lie would land them in jail.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.constitutionaldaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&#038;view=article&#038;id=1546:az-wrongful-birth-bill-liable-for-wrongful-hysteria&#038;catid=42:news&#038;Itemid=71" rel="nofollow">http://www.constitutionaldaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&#038;view=article&#038;id=1546:az-wrongful-birth-bill-liable-for-wrongful-hysteria&#038;catid=42:news&#038;Itemid=71</a> </p>
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		<title>By: Elissa Malcohn</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1366701</link>
		<dc:creator>Elissa Malcohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 23:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1366701</guid>
		<description>I did read the bill, and more.  Here&#039;s the bill:
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/50leg/2r/bills/sb1359s.pdf

With respect to Section D, my questions are:
(a) What defines &quot;intentional or grossly negligent act or omission&quot;?
(b) What defines &quot;omission that violates a criminal law&quot;?
(c) What defines evidence of such omission?

What is especially interesting here is that this bill adds a section to Arizona Revised Statutes, Section 1, Title 12, Chapter 6, &quot;Special Acts and Proceedings by Individual Persons.&quot; Chapter 6 deals with such matters as motor vehicle subleasing, libel and slander, and product liability.

In contrast, it is Chapter FIVE that encompasses &quot;Actions Relating to Health Care.&quot; I think it&#039;s more than a little odd that SB1359, which clearly is a health care issue, has been placed in a different chapter within the law.

Within Chapter 5, you have the following text

----- text begin -----

12-563. Necessary elements of proof

Both of the following shall be necessary elements of proof that injury resulted from the failure of a health care provider to follow the accepted standard of care:

1. The health care provider failed to exercise that degree of care, skill and learning expected of a reasonable, prudent health care provider in the profession or class to which he belongs within the state acting in the same or similar circumstances.

2. Such failure was a proximate cause of the injury. 

----- text end -----

There is nothing in 12-563 about &quot;intentional or grossly negligent act or omission.&quot;  Again, given those definitions in the chapter of Arizona law related to HEALTH ISSUES, I seriously question why the placement of SB1359 Section 12-718, &quot;Civil liability; wrongful birth, life or conception claims; application&quot; has been placed not within a chapter on health, but within a chapter on such things as motor vehicles, libel, and product liability.

Here&#039;s the source material:
http://www.azleg.gov/arizonarevisedstatutes.asp?title=12</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did read the bill, and more.  Here&#8217;s the bill:<br />
<a href="http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/50leg/2r/bills/sb1359s.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/50leg/2r/bills/sb1359s.pdf</a></p>
<p>With respect to Section D, my questions are:<br />
(a) What defines &#8220;intentional or grossly negligent act or omission&#8221;?<br />
(b) What defines &#8220;omission that violates a criminal law&#8221;?<br />
(c) What defines evidence of such omission?</p>
<p>What is especially interesting here is that this bill adds a section to Arizona Revised Statutes, Section 1, Title 12, Chapter 6, &#8220;Special Acts and Proceedings by Individual Persons.&#8221; Chapter 6 deals with such matters as motor vehicle subleasing, libel and slander, and product liability.</p>
<p>In contrast, it is Chapter FIVE that encompasses &#8220;Actions Relating to Health Care.&#8221; I think it&#8217;s more than a little odd that SB1359, which clearly is a health care issue, has been placed in a different chapter within the law.</p>
<p>Within Chapter 5, you have the following text</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8211; text begin &#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>12-563. Necessary elements of proof</p>
<p>Both of the following shall be necessary elements of proof that injury resulted from the failure of a health care provider to follow the accepted standard of care:</p>
<p>1. The health care provider failed to exercise that degree of care, skill and learning expected of a reasonable, prudent health care provider in the profession or class to which he belongs within the state acting in the same or similar circumstances.</p>
<p>2. Such failure was a proximate cause of the injury. </p>
<p>&#8212;&#8211; text end &#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>There is nothing in 12-563 about &#8220;intentional or grossly negligent act or omission.&#8221;  Again, given those definitions in the chapter of Arizona law related to HEALTH ISSUES, I seriously question why the placement of SB1359 Section 12-718, &#8220;Civil liability; wrongful birth, life or conception claims; application&#8221; has been placed not within a chapter on health, but within a chapter on such things as motor vehicles, libel, and product liability.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the source material:<br />
<a href="http://www.azleg.gov/arizonarevisedstatutes.asp?title=12" rel="nofollow">http://www.azleg.gov/arizonarevisedstatutes.asp?title=12</a></p>
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		<title>By: Teller</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1366675</link>
		<dc:creator>Teller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1366675</guid>
		<description>&quot;Under the bill, physicians could still be held liable for withholding prenatal information, but mere mistakes, such as failing to perform tests or detect birth defects, would not necessarily make a physician liable for the future care of that child.&quot;

http://www.clinicaladvisor.com/arizona-senate-panel-votes-to-curb-wrongful-birth-suits/article/228517/

People can always lie, I guess. But the language &quot;still be held liable for withholding prenatal information&quot; suggests if doctors deliberately do it, they&#039;re, in fact, not immunized from malpractice suits. But as I said, people can always lie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Under the bill, physicians could still be held liable for withholding prenatal information, but mere mistakes, such as failing to perform tests or detect birth defects, would not necessarily make a physician liable for the future care of that child.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.clinicaladvisor.com/arizona-senate-panel-votes-to-curb-wrongful-birth-suits/article/228517/" rel="nofollow">http://www.clinicaladvisor.com/arizona-senate-panel-votes-to-curb-wrongful-birth-suits/article/228517/</a></p>
<p>People can always lie, I guess. But the language &#8220;still be held liable for withholding prenatal information&#8221; suggests if doctors deliberately do it, they&#8217;re, in fact, not immunized from malpractice suits. But as I said, people can always lie.</p>
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		<title>By: thomas vesely</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1366653</link>
		<dc:creator>thomas vesely</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1366653</guid>
		<description>are these &quot;doctors&quot; going to adopt these babies if the mothers really didn&#039;t want to bring forth a Down syndrome child?

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>are these &#8220;doctors&#8221; going to adopt these babies if the mothers really didn&#8217;t want to bring forth a Down syndrome child?</p>
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		<title>By: Hanglyman</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1366647</link>
		<dc:creator>Hanglyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1366647</guid>
		<description> &quot;Funny&quot; isn&#039;t the word I would use...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> &#8221;Funny&#8221; isn&#8217;t the word I would use&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: mewbit</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1366542</link>
		<dc:creator>mewbit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 21:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1366542</guid>
		<description>Who ever said that women couldn&#039;t be raised/conditioned/tempted into having an insatiable need to control and suppress other women? After all, they need to be able to justify their own existence to themselves (and their men), too.
At least two of the most highly esteemed pieces of teaching texts (read: rule books) for women in ancient China were written by women. Said texts pretty much went into every aspect of life and gave instructions on how women should make sure to keep themselves as insignificant as, say, a piece of cloth. I mean, the Bible treated women like cattle, but at least a cow is a living mammal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who ever said that women couldn&#8217;t be raised/conditioned/tempted into having an insatiable need to control and suppress other women? After all, they need to be able to justify their own existence to themselves (and their men), too.<br />
At least two of the most highly esteemed pieces of teaching texts (read: rule books) for women in ancient China were written by women. Said texts pretty much went into every aspect of life and gave instructions on how women should make sure to keep themselves as insignificant as, say, a piece of cloth. I mean, the Bible treated women like cattle, but at least a cow is a living mammal.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1366502</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 21:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1366502</guid>
		<description>No, not fruits and vegetables and seafood!  Real food, like corn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, not fruits and vegetables and seafood!  Real food, like corn.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1366448</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 21:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1366448</guid>
		<description>You know that up until the 1970s it was standard procedure to tell cancer patients that they didn&#039;t have cancer and to tell terminally ill patients that they were going to recover?  This is just retro medicine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know that up until the 1970s it was standard procedure to tell cancer patients that they didn&#8217;t have cancer and to tell terminally ill patients that they were going to recover?  This is just retro medicine.</p>
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		<title>By: BadIdeaSociety</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1366160</link>
		<dc:creator>BadIdeaSociety</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1366160</guid>
		<description>I am not an evolution denier, but as a reasonable admirer of science, I accept credited scientific theories to be &quot;Theories&quot; and that the word &quot;Theory&quot; actually means something that has been consistently tested and has proven to be true. 

I actually prefer the word &quot;Theory&quot; because while scientists overwhelmingly tend to agree that evolution is happening and is an ongoing process, there have been subtle refinements in how we understand evolution since Darwin published his theory and I imagine there will be subtle changes in the coming centuries as our understanding is improved through things like DNA mapping. I just wish more people accepted the concept of a &quot;theory&quot; as being as profound as the world of science does. 

I hesitate attributing the word &quot;fact&quot; to evolution simply because of the lack of complete and comprehensive explanation that you even mention. 

Calling evolution &quot;only a theory&quot; is like calling the atomic bomb &quot;only a firecracker.&quot; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not an evolution denier, but as a reasonable admirer of science, I accept credited scientific theories to be &#8220;Theories&#8221; and that the word &#8220;Theory&#8221; actually means something that has been consistently tested and has proven to be true. </p>
<p>I actually prefer the word &#8220;Theory&#8221; because while scientists overwhelmingly tend to agree that evolution is happening and is an ongoing process, there have been subtle refinements in how we understand evolution since Darwin published his theory and I imagine there will be subtle changes in the coming centuries as our understanding is improved through things like DNA mapping. I just wish more people accepted the concept of a &#8220;theory&#8221; as being as profound as the world of science does. </p>
<p>I hesitate attributing the word &#8220;fact&#8221; to evolution simply because of the lack of complete and comprehensive explanation that you even mention. </p>
<p>Calling evolution &#8220;only a theory&#8221; is like calling the atomic bomb &#8220;only a firecracker.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: GlenBlank</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1366110</link>
		<dc:creator>GlenBlank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 18:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1366110</guid>
		<description>No, evolution is a fact.  

There&#039;s a lot of confusion created by the phrase &quot;the theory of evolution.&quot;

Evolution itself is an observed fact.  We see it in the lab, we see it in the wild, and we see loads of evidence in the fossil record.  We can make it happen at a vastly accelerated rate by applying artificial selection.  

Nothing theoretical about it.  Saying &quot;organisms evolve&quot; is like saying &quot;the cloudless daytime sky looks blue.&quot;  It&#039;s an observable fact.

Darwin&#039;s &lt;i&gt;theory&lt;/i&gt; -what&#039;s called &quot;the Theory of Evolution&quot; - was that the observed fact of evolution in nature could be explained by natural selection.    

That theory is well-supported by evidence (though it may not be the complete and comprehensive explanation - there may be some other factors driving evolution as well).

But evolution itself is stone-cold fact.  Nothing theoretical about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, evolution is a fact.  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s a lot of confusion created by the phrase &#8220;the theory of evolution.&#8221;</p>
<p>Evolution itself is an observed fact.  We see it in the lab, we see it in the wild, and we see loads of evidence in the fossil record.  We can make it happen at a vastly accelerated rate by applying artificial selection.  </p>
<p>Nothing theoretical about it.  Saying &#8220;organisms evolve&#8221; is like saying &#8220;the cloudless daytime sky looks blue.&#8221;  It&#8217;s an observable fact.</p>
<p>Darwin&#8217;s <i>theory</i> -what&#8217;s called &#8220;the Theory of Evolution&#8221; &#8211; was that the observed fact of evolution in nature could be explained by natural selection.    </p>
<p>That theory is well-supported by evidence (though it may not be the complete and comprehensive explanation &#8211; there may be some other factors driving evolution as well).</p>
<p>But evolution itself is stone-cold fact.  Nothing theoretical about it.</p>
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		<title>By: DeargDoom</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1366088</link>
		<dc:creator>DeargDoom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 18:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1366088</guid>
		<description> Or perhaps those who believe that Steve created the world in 7 clicks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Or perhaps those who believe that Steve created the world in 7 clicks.</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1365998</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 17:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1365998</guid>
		<description>Yes, I&#039;m with you.  Maybe my point will be clearer with another well-known scientific theory.

There is a theory of gravity; no one denies this.  But there is also the fact that things stick to the ground with a measurable force (proportional to weight).  In other words, in addition to the &lt;em&gt;theory&lt;/em&gt; of gravity there is also the &lt;em&gt;fact&lt;/em&gt; of gravity.  Newton&#039;s &lt;em&gt;theory&lt;/em&gt; of gravity was superseded but no one floated off the ground when that happened.  

In the same way, there is the fact of evolution -- populations of organisms change over time and you can see this first-hand in peppered moths or finches or the fossil record.  And then there is a theory explaining &lt;em&gt;why&lt;/em&gt; this happens.  There is a theory of evolution but even if there wasn&#039;t or if it turned out to be wrong we would need a new theory to explain populations of organisms changing over time -- the &lt;em&gt;fact&lt;/em&gt; of evolution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I&#8217;m with you.  Maybe my point will be clearer with another well-known scientific theory.</p>
<p>There is a theory of gravity; no one denies this.  But there is also the fact that things stick to the ground with a measurable force (proportional to weight).  In other words, in addition to the <em>theory</em> of gravity there is also the <em>fact</em> of gravity.  Newton&#8217;s <em>theory</em> of gravity was superseded but no one floated off the ground when that happened.  </p>
<p>In the same way, there is the fact of evolution &#8212; populations of organisms change over time and you can see this first-hand in peppered moths or finches or the fossil record.  And then there is a theory explaining <em>why</em> this happens.  There is a theory of evolution but even if there wasn&#8217;t or if it turned out to be wrong we would need a new theory to explain populations of organisms changing over time &#8212; the <em>fact</em> of evolution.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Deidzoeb</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1365988</link>
		<dc:creator>Deidzoeb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 17:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1365988</guid>
		<description>To BadIdeaSociety, re: pharmacists and objections of &quot;conscience&quot; -- I don&#039;t know if this is a viable option, but I think the best policy is for people to exempt themselves from working as providers or health professionals, if part of their normal and legal job function is against their religion or morality. Not that their prejudices should be indulged by letting them selectively do their jobs. You&#039;re either a pharmacist who provides what anyone legally requests, or you stop  being a pharmacist because the requirements of the job seem immoral to you. You&#039;re either a doctor who does what doctors are supposed to do, or you stop being a doctor because the requirements of the job seem immoral to you.

If we&#039;re stuck with politicians who are more worried about religion than medical ethics (and in some situations we are), then your strategy would be good in the short term. In the long term, legal treatments should not be up to the whim of each individaul pharmacist or doctor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To BadIdeaSociety, re: pharmacists and objections of &#8220;conscience&#8221; &#8212; I don&#8217;t know if this is a viable option, but I think the best policy is for people to exempt themselves from working as providers or health professionals, if part of their normal and legal job function is against their religion or morality. Not that their prejudices should be indulged by letting them selectively do their jobs. You&#8217;re either a pharmacist who provides what anyone legally requests, or you stop  being a pharmacist because the requirements of the job seem immoral to you. You&#8217;re either a doctor who does what doctors are supposed to do, or you stop being a doctor because the requirements of the job seem immoral to you.</p>
<p>If we&#8217;re stuck with politicians who are more worried about religion than medical ethics (and in some situations we are), then your strategy would be good in the short term. In the long term, legal treatments should not be up to the whim of each individaul pharmacist or doctor.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BadIdeaSociety</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1365984</link>
		<dc:creator>BadIdeaSociety</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 17:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1365984</guid>
		<description> You won&#039;t get any arguments from me on putting a sticker on a biology textbook saying, &quot;Evolution is a Fact&quot; but I think that even scientists would prefer the use of &quot;Theory&quot; but the people who pushed the stickers know that the average person considers the word &quot;theory&quot; as being synonymous with &quot;prediction&quot; or &quot;hypothesis.&quot; 

I would prefer the sticker, &quot;The world laughs at America for having so many proud, uninformed evolution deniers.&quot; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> You won&#8217;t get any arguments from me on putting a sticker on a biology textbook saying, &#8220;Evolution is a Fact&#8221; but I think that even scientists would prefer the use of &#8220;Theory&#8221; but the people who pushed the stickers know that the average person considers the word &#8220;theory&#8221; as being synonymous with &#8220;prediction&#8221; or &#8220;hypothesis.&#8221; </p>
<p>I would prefer the sticker, &#8220;The world laughs at America for having so many proud, uninformed evolution deniers.&#8221; </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: monkeygirl</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1365975</link>
		<dc:creator>monkeygirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 17:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1365975</guid>
		<description> California</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> California</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: UFIA</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1365959</link>
		<dc:creator>UFIA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 17:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1365959</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;donniebnyc &lt;/b&gt;
Thanks, sometimes I mix up my first, second and third languages.  
I&#039;m not an expert, just paying attention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>donniebnyc </b><br />
Thanks, sometimes I mix up my first, second and third languages. <br />
I&#8217;m not an expert, just paying attention.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1365941</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1365941</guid>
		<description>Go ahead and call it a fact.  The fossils aren&#039;t going anywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go ahead and call it a fact.  The fossils aren&#8217;t going anywhere.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: nixiebunny</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1365933</link>
		<dc:creator>nixiebunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1365933</guid>
		<description>Or living in Austin, which as far as I can tell is a separate landlocked state inside Texas. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or living in Austin, which as far as I can tell is a separate landlocked state inside Texas. </p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1365929</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1365929</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately we are not headed TOWARDS a president taking that sort of stand.  We are headed almost directly away from it.

Be afraid.  And angry.  Seems to work for conservatives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately we are not headed TOWARDS a president taking that sort of stand.  We are headed almost directly away from it.</p>
<p>Be afraid.  And angry.  Seems to work for conservatives.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: donniebnyc</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1365922</link>
		<dc:creator>donniebnyc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1365922</guid>
		<description> Excuse me, Mr. Expert, but I believe you misspelled Aryan.  Just saying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Excuse me, Mr. Expert, but I believe you misspelled Aryan.  Just saying.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: squirrelkiller</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1365923</link>
		<dc:creator>squirrelkiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1365923</guid>
		<description>Read the bill. It doesn&#039;t apply to intentional acts or omissions. Doctors can&#039;t lie to pregnant women. Mr. Doctorow, I expected better of you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read the bill. It doesn&#8217;t apply to intentional acts or omissions. Doctors can&#8217;t lie to pregnant women. Mr. Doctorow, I expected better of you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1365920</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1365920</guid>
		<description> Because liberals have the capacity to ask themselves: &quot;Is it possible I&#039;m mistaken?&quot;  In politics skepticism and self-awareness are huge disadvantages as it turns out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Because liberals have the capacity to ask themselves: &#8220;Is it possible I&#8217;m mistaken?&#8221;  In politics skepticism and self-awareness are huge disadvantages as it turns out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: donniebnyc</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1365916</link>
		<dc:creator>donniebnyc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1365916</guid>
		<description>&quot; backwoods strain of barley literate&quot;

That&#039;s the funniest typo I seen all month.  Kudos.
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; backwoods strain of barley literate&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the funniest typo I seen all month.  Kudos.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Palomino</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1365906</link>
		<dc:creator>Palomino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1365906</guid>
		<description>Exactly. Doctors are now arguing they don&#039;t have to divulge their convicitons because they will lose patients. There needs to be a new Patients Bill of Rights, to include they have a right to know if a doctor/facility doesn&#039;t cover a service paid for by the patients carrier, ANY service. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly. Doctors are now arguing they don&#8217;t have to divulge their convicitons because they will lose patients. There needs to be a new Patients Bill of Rights, to include they have a right to know if a doctor/facility doesn&#8217;t cover a service paid for by the patients carrier, ANY service. </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Arys</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1365905</link>
		<dc:creator>Arys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1365905</guid>
		<description>I would love to see the Republican women with a conscience organize a massive hold out on sex until these jokers stop this crap. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would love to see the Republican women with a conscience organize a massive hold out on sex until these jokers stop this crap. </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Palomino</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1365900</link>
		<dc:creator>Palomino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1365900</guid>
		<description>Bringing up both sides of the argument doesn&#039;t mean I support the side you&#039;re most passionate about, It&#039;s responsible dialog. Please read my entire post, I&#039;m only quoting the new bill, so you&#039;re for it? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bringing up both sides of the argument doesn&#8217;t mean I support the side you&#8217;re most passionate about, It&#8217;s responsible dialog. Please read my entire post, I&#8217;m only quoting the new bill, so you&#8217;re for it? </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Palomino</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-votes-to-let-an.html#comment-1365897</link>
		<dc:creator>Palomino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=148092#comment-1365897</guid>
		<description>I agree. But the bill separates pregnancies into classes. What about the morning after pill? What about patients going directly to an abortion clinic?

The ONLY way this will work, is for a doctor with this belief system to divulge it to his patients. Bar None. I believe doctors should have convictions, there&#039;s many faith based hospitals. If they lose patients and money due to their beliefs, that&#039;s the cost they must pay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree. But the bill separates pregnancies into classes. What about the morning after pill? What about patients going directly to an abortion clinic?</p>
<p>The ONLY way this will work, is for a doctor with this belief system to divulge it to his patients. Bar None. I believe doctors should have convictions, there&#8217;s many faith based hospitals. If they lose patients and money due to their beliefs, that&#8217;s the cost they must pay.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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