Kevin Smith on why you, too can be an indie success

Here's Kevin Smith discussing his success as an independent, and rebutting critics who say that his go-it-alone strategy for his Red State (which is, by the way, excellent) was only possible because he'd made a name for himself:

Anyone that tells you "oh he could do it because he's Kevin Smith"—tell 'em horseshit, man. That's somebody who's trying to tell you "don't try, you can't try, he did it, he can do it, you can't do it." Don't listen to that shit man. Think of life and progress as a game—I always think of it in terms of a game of hockey. When you're skating with the puck towards the net there's always a motherfucker trying to hook you from behind, just to slow you up enough, 'cause nobody wants to see anybody succeed. So don't listen to that. When you hear somebody go "well of course he could do it, he's Kevin Smith"—those same assholes, before I did it, were like "it's never gonna work, it's dumb, he crazy". And then when it worked, they didn't go like "you know what? we were wrong"—instead they say "well only he could do it because he's Kevin Smith" and I say horseshit. Kevin Smith wasn't always Kevin Smith, nor was Kevin Smith the little kid that pulled the fucking sword from the stone.

Now am I going to say like, this is the only way it should ever be done forever? No but you're always looking for alternatives, because the old method doesn't so much work anymore. You can't just put a commercial on TV and expect a bunch of people to show up and see it at the movie theatres. They have too many choices. They can just stay home and surf porn on the internet. Why would you want to go see The Avengers when you can watch like three people having sex from the privacy of your own home? You're competing for attention, and in a world where you're competing for attention, you have to figure out ways to make it more interesting for the audience to come out. It's no longer enough to be like "here's the movie, come see it".

Techdirt's Leigh Beadon relates this to Masnick's Law: "in any conversation about musicians doing something different to achieve fame and/or fortune someone will inevitably attempt to make the argument that 'it only worked for them because they are big/small and it will never work for someone who is the opposite,' no matter how much evidence to the contrary might be readily available."

Kevin Smith On Why You Don't Have To Be Kevin Smith To Try Innovative New Things

• [mat catastrophe]

  He’s done remarkably well with some pretty mediocre films.

• [misadventures213]

  Bart:  You make me sick, Homer.  You’re the one who told me I could do anything if I just put my mind to it!
  Homer: Well, now that you’re a little bit older, I can tell you that’s a crock!  No matter how good you are at something, there’s always about a million people better than you.
  Bart:  Gotcha.  Can’t win, don’t try.

• [gtrjnky]

  Never cared for his movies, or his opinions. 

  • [dculberson]

     Don’t care about your opinion, either.

    • [gtrjnky]

      edited
      Sorry if I offended the KS fans. Does it make someone a hater for expressing their (negative) opinion? I think not.
      I wonder who is going to be on the cover of People magazine next week?

      • [Antinous / Moderator]

        Does it make someone a hater for expressing their (negative) opinion?

        Announcing what you don’t like without giving any rationale makes you a rather dull commenter. Why would you think that anyone cares to hear you announce that you don’t like something?

        • [gtrjnky]

          Why do you include a “like”  option for comments?

• [Jim Nelson]

  I don’t know, as someone who’s in the process of making a no-budget movie, Kevin Smith being really, really honest about his experiences is a lot of help. He talks about mistakes he’s made, things he wishes he’d done, and a lot of the just random lessons you learn when doing this stuff for real. So, he’s helping a lot of the next generation come up, without having to learn some… expensive lessons.

  And it’s really interesting how almost all of the people who talk shit about him… haven’t made movies. He’s made decent money (actually insane amounts of money for an indie director), he’s not a dick, and his movies have become part of the cultural lexicon of my generation.

  Let’s see the haters who are more successful, or more influential, than he is, and I might listen to them.

  Seriously, very few other directors get as much shit talked about them, outside of M. Night Shyamalan and Uwe Boll. And both of them tried for something a little more difficult than comedy films.

  • [Jim Saul]

    Wouldn’t that be hilarious… to find someone who is happy, fulfilled, creative, successful, emotionally connected, and ambitious for more  in all these things… and to find them crouched over the keyboard bitterly slinging depressories and trying to shoot down any optimism and independence some strangers might express deep in comment threads.

    Now I’m going to have to assume that behind various internet handles Joan Rivers and Harlan Ellison cackle maniacally.

  • [Dan Hibiki]

     So, the only one qualified to question the greatness of Kevin Smith is Michael Bay?

• [Madeline Ashby]

  Thanks for sharing this. I really like Kevin Smith, in part for commentary like this. In interviews, lectures, commentary tracks, and even on Comic Book Men, he’s always struck me as someone who knows both exactly how lucky he is and exactly how hard he had to work to make the best of that luck. I don’t like all of his movies, but I do like his approach, and his candor. When you think about it, there’s not a whole lot of filmmakers out there who would tell that story about Jon Peters and the giant spider, or call out ABC for burying new animated series, much less continue working afterward.

• [gtrjnky]

  “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

  John Steinbeck

• [mike k]

  he’s had a few good films, lots of bad ones and a bad tv show – comicbook men is unwatchable

• [bigorangemachine]

  I think why people don’t like KS is because he is talented and average.
  He isn’t an amazing movie maker when compared to his peers but the movies I have seen (excluding cop-out ^_^) have always made me laugh or  come away with something insightful.

  Hes not doing anything ground breaking but is doing amazing things with established movie norms.  Thats what people don’t like.  Seeing average ability doing really well. It makes you look at yourself and say ‘I could have followed through on my idea’ and wonder why you didn’t.

  Granted, his movies are all ace-10 5 star 2 thumbs up…. but how often are all the critics right. :)

  If you listen to smodcast you hear a lot of themes of following what you love and everything else will follow.  My life went that direction (not to hollywood sadly) without ever hearing his podcast.  He’s right though… its always you that stops you.. and the people who say ‘No’ to you.  And sometimes… you need to fail to realize that maybe something isn’t for you.

• [Chris Jensen]

  Red State is awesome? We must have seen two different movies. Still waiting for a good Kevin Smith movie. Besides, countless indies have gone it alone…that’s why it’s called “indie”. Some of them are actually pretty good, like Primer, made for $2,000, which has more creativity in 5-seconds than Smith’s entire oeuvre.

  • [Al Billings]

     Haters gotta hate, I see.

  • [Spezz]

    You are exactly who he is talking about. Instead of negativity, try doing something constructive with your impeccable film taste and fancy words.

• [Terry Border]

  Man is trying to inspire and knuckleheads stop by long enough to post critical comments on his past work. 
  He’s not telling you how to make something or how to be like him. That’s not the message here.

  • [GEOFFREY WHITMAN]

    I wish BB had a “mega-like” button for your comment. People complaining about their subjective experience of his past work – while this post is trying to start a dialogue on how to achieve creative satisfaction – sound petty as hell. Go away haters – we’re trying to talk about making stuff.

• [Noctilucent Studios]

  Pot has also been a VERY heavy influence on his work these last several years.

  • [GEOFFREY WHITMAN]

    I can’t help but be a fan of the affect it’s had on his output and seeming overall demeanour. His previous (really unhealthy-seeming) obsession with haters of his work seems to have diminished significantly in the past few years. It’s nice to see. And it seems like pot has played a large role in helping him get to that place mentally.

    Of course, this is all subjective interpretation of information gleaned by listening to his podcast for a couple of years, so it’s highly open for debate.

    • [Scott N.]

      Diminished obsessions? I’d say his pot use brought out the worst in him. He began smoking BEFORE ‘Cop Out,’ and since then it’s just been dummy spit after dummy spit. And when he’s not outright throwing a tantrum I don’t think you could find a man more passive-aggressive than he.

      I used to like him but for the past three or four years he’s been just insufferable. I’m not certain it’s because of his smoking, I’m just guessing it is because looking back it seems like it all began around that time.

• [Mr Baker]

  Mr Baker on why I am sick of Kevin Smith.
  Enjoyed the movie wayyyyyyyy back then, you, not so much, now, still not so much.
  If I hear him refer to himself as an “artist” again, I’ll powervomit.

  If only Bob remained silent.

  • [EH]

    For a comment like that, a stodgy honorific like “Mr.” is almost required.

• [miasm]

  The solution for Kevin seems clear.
  Distribute the responsibility for the creation of his movies to diffuse conglomerates whom we feel incapable of of pinning our grievances upon.
  I mean, standing up front like that just makes him a target, amIrightoramIright, huh, huh? /douche

• [Preston Sturges]

  I know someone who saw Kevin Smith’s  ”Live From Behind” show last month and it was disappointing.  KS left abruptly without taking questions even though the show was promoted as “a unique opportunity for fans to interact with Kevin Smith.”

  • [GameMaster9002]

    According to Rotten Tomatoes it looks like he had some problems with the producers (who seemed to have some problems with some of the people attending)
    Not quite sure what to make of that

• [Petzl]

  The words “Red State” and “excellent” should be placed very distant from one another.

  • [Guillaume Dargaud]

     Yeah. I liked his other movies, but I saw ‘red state’ 2 days ago and it’s dreadful.

• [Petzl]

  Can’t use typography in the cause of humor?  You’re no fun.

• [quantize]

  Liked Clerks and did not at all mind Red State. It starts well and what leads up to the ‘siege’ suggests the guy could do a pretty great job on something more firmly based in the horror genre. The end though, with it’s painfully unnecessary explanatory monologue still showed he should take his oft given own advice and have more confidence.

  I’m always surprised by how much people dislike him so much. He seems very genuine and open, and more than accepting now that his work and sense of humor is an acquired taste. He’s certainly not hurting anyone and i happen to find his podcasts and even Comic Book Men pretty good fun.

  Between Clerks and Red State I hadn’t paid much attention, he certainly has done a few bad films but I’ve always found his honesty, passion and sense of humor something unique in Hollywood.

• [hughstimson]

  Not a comment on his films or his personality (I feel affection for both), but at no point does he demonstrate how it would have been possible to self-distribute Red State if he had not already achieved name-recognition through the conventional movie distribution system.

  I am sure there are many ways for creative indie producers to get their movies seen. But it’s two different things to say that it’s possible to do *somehow* and to say that his particular model is reproduceable by non-established players.

• [Jay Stephens]

  I’m with those who thought red state was less than awesome.
  OTOH I agree with the thrust of his article here.
  Don’t like the Hockey metaphor tho – rule of thumb; when you’re making a point about non-zerosum endeavours (artistic creativity), avoid metaphors from zerosum games (if a side wins at hockey, the other side has to lose, whereas there is no fixed definite number of succesful creators of great content, even tho there are finite budgets, finite channels, and finite shopfront).