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	<title>Comments on: American parents take out student loans for their kids&#039; kindergarten&#160;education</title>
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		<title>By: takurospirit</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1392312</link>
		<dc:creator>takurospirit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2012 22:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1392312</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m from the Chicago suburbs (grew up in one of the poorer northern &quot;burbs&quot; along the lake) and lived in the city for about 16 years. It is cheaper than you&#039;d believe to move to a suburb. At least this one. Our property taxes don&#039;t even reach half of what our yearly rent expense ever was at it&#039;s highest. Of course the schools around here might not be much better, but there is not much I can do about that but take up the slack in my child&#039;s education. Lake Forest or Highland Park would be great, but my employer fired my ass when I got pregnant (which prompted my desperate move back north). Really if I could just manage to snag a job on par to what I lost (and it was only $12/hr) we would be fine. Of course I inherited the house so there&#039;s no mortgage or anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m from the Chicago suburbs (grew up in one of the poorer northern &#8220;burbs&#8221; along the lake) and lived in the city for about 16 years. It is cheaper than you&#8217;d believe to move to a suburb. At least this one. Our property taxes don&#8217;t even reach half of what our yearly rent expense ever was at it&#8217;s highest. Of course the schools around here might not be much better, but there is not much I can do about that but take up the slack in my child&#8217;s education. Lake Forest or Highland Park would be great, but my employer fired my ass when I got pregnant (which prompted my desperate move back north). Really if I could just manage to snag a job on par to what I lost (and it was only $12/hr) we would be fine. Of course I inherited the house so there&#8217;s no mortgage or anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Petersen</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1391468</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Petersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2012 01:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1391468</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Public education still works, but not for nearly as many people as it should.&lt;/blockquote&gt;That&#039;s true; it &lt;i&gt;can&lt;/i&gt; work, but sometimes it&#039;s an incredibly uphill battle.  My wife attended California public schools (almost entirely post-Prop. 13, when the budgets were gutted), and went on to attend Wellesley College, alma mater of such luminaries as Hillary Rodham Clinton and Madeleine Albright.  My wife and I both strongly desired to send both our kids to public school, but the state of CA schools today (particularly in the Pasadena Unified District, where we live) is disheartening in the extreme.  We applied to a couple of promising charter schools in our area, but after placing 118th on a waiting list for an incoming kindergarten class of 14 souls, we&#039;d just about resigned ourselves to mortgaging everything we had to get our kids into one of our local progressive private schools, which hits you in the neighborhood of $20k per child per annum.

But no.  Those schools may be better than the best local public schools, but probably not to the tune of $20k per year, especially since we&#039;re committed and caring and involved parents.  Since my wife teaches in the LA Unified district, we&#039;re able to send our daughter to an LAUSD school at which my wife used to teach (one of the two halfway-decent ones Sandra Tsing Loh shows on her depressingly hilarious map of the LAUSD inside the front cover of &lt;i&gt;Mother on Fire&lt;/i&gt;), and I can&#039;t tell you how glad we are that we&#039;re able to do that... and how depressing it is that this particular school, one of the most coveted in the entire district, has had to pay for at least three full-time faculty members through parent fundraisers for several years now.

Yep.  Bake sales to subsidize &lt;i&gt;payroll&lt;/i&gt;.

Things are so, so much worse than they were when Prop 13 began.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Public education still works, but not for nearly as many people as it should.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s true; it <i>can</i> work, but sometimes it&#8217;s an incredibly uphill battle.  My wife attended California public schools (almost entirely post-Prop. 13, when the budgets were gutted), and went on to attend Wellesley College, alma mater of such luminaries as Hillary Rodham Clinton and Madeleine Albright.  My wife and I both strongly desired to send both our kids to public school, but the state of CA schools today (particularly in the Pasadena Unified District, where we live) is disheartening in the extreme.  We applied to a couple of promising charter schools in our area, but after placing 118th on a waiting list for an incoming kindergarten class of 14 souls, we&#8217;d just about resigned ourselves to mortgaging everything we had to get our kids into one of our local progressive private schools, which hits you in the neighborhood of $20k per child per annum.</p>
<p>But no.  Those schools may be better than the best local public schools, but probably not to the tune of $20k per year, especially since we&#8217;re committed and caring and involved parents.  Since my wife teaches in the LA Unified district, we&#8217;re able to send our daughter to an LAUSD school at which my wife used to teach (one of the two halfway-decent ones Sandra Tsing Loh shows on her depressingly hilarious map of the LAUSD inside the front cover of <i>Mother on Fire</i>), and I can&#8217;t tell you how glad we are that we&#8217;re able to do that&#8230; and how depressing it is that this particular school, one of the most coveted in the entire district, has had to pay for at least three full-time faculty members through parent fundraisers for several years now.</p>
<p>Yep.  Bake sales to subsidize <i>payroll</i>.</p>
<p>Things are so, so much worse than they were when Prop 13 began.</p>
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		<title>By: digi_owl</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1391399</link>
		<dc:creator>digi_owl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 23:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1391399</guid>
		<description>Very much so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very much so.</p>
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		<title>By: bcsizemo</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1391384</link>
		<dc:creator>bcsizemo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 22:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1391384</guid>
		<description>I assume you realize that &quot;game over man, game over&quot; comes from Aliens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&amp;v=qrjFuTbl_SA#t=196s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&amp;v=qrjFuTbl_SA#t=56s

His character is just so great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I assume you realize that &#8220;game over man, game over&#8221; comes from Aliens:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&#038;v=qrjFuTbl_SA#t=196s" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&#038;v=qrjFuTbl_SA#t=196s</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&#038;v=qrjFuTbl_SA#t=56s" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&#038;v=qrjFuTbl_SA#t=56s</a></p>
<p>His character is just so great.</p>
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		<title>By: Teller</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1391292</link>
		<dc:creator>Teller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 21:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1391292</guid>
		<description>True. That&#039;s the scam, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True. That&#8217;s the scam, right?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: digi_owl</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1391294</link>
		<dc:creator>digi_owl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 21:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1391294</guid>
		<description> Dunno about space marines, but the various US military branches seems to have a field day recruiting among the less &quot;fortunate&quot; these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Dunno about space marines, but the various US military branches seems to have a field day recruiting among the less &#8220;fortunate&#8221; these days.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Brainspore</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1391266</link>
		<dc:creator>Brainspore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 21:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1391266</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The best education I ever had came from reading books, not from a teacher, not from a school, and not from a lesson plan.&lt;/blockquote&gt;And who taught you how to read them? Either a teacher or a home-schooling parent, I bet.

Books are great but there are many reasons that books alone are an insufficient substitute for all other forms of education.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The best education I ever had came from reading books, not from a teacher, not from a school, and not from a lesson plan.</p></blockquote>
<p>And who taught you how to read them? Either a teacher or a home-schooling parent, I bet.</p>
<p>Books are great but there are many reasons that books alone are an insufficient substitute for all other forms of education.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Brainspore</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1391232</link>
		<dc:creator>Brainspore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 20:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1391232</guid>
		<description>Absolutely, not all public schools are created equal. My mom put our grandparents&#039; address on our enrollment forms to get my siblings and me into a good public elementary school. (A practice that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/crime/6076-mother-jailed-for-enrolling-kids-in-another-school-district&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;can get you jail time nowadays,&lt;/a&gt; at least if you&#039;re poor and black.)

My two sisters are now practicing physicians, my brother is a mechanical engineer and I teach college. Public education still works, but not for nearly as many people as it should.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely, not all public schools are created equal. My mom put our grandparents&#8217; address on our enrollment forms to get my siblings and me into a good public elementary school. (A practice that <a href="http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/crime/6076-mother-jailed-for-enrolling-kids-in-another-school-district" rel="nofollow">can get you jail time nowadays,</a> at least if you&#8217;re poor and black.)</p>
<p>My two sisters are now practicing physicians, my brother is a mechanical engineer and I teach college. Public education still works, but not for nearly as many people as it should.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Brainspore</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1391223</link>
		<dc:creator>Brainspore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 20:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1391223</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And a driven, type A, personality can also make you a great dealer, pimp, or stripper. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
The most interesting and intelligent characters from &quot;The Wire&quot; were great examples of this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And a driven, type A, personality can also make you a great dealer, pimp, or stripper. </p></blockquote>
<p>The most interesting and intelligent characters from &#8220;The Wire&#8221; were great examples of this.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Brainspore</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1391160</link>
		<dc:creator>Brainspore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 19:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1391160</guid>
		<description>So if I can&#039;t afford to buy a new house so my kids can get into a better Kindergarten, does that make me a bad father?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So if I can&#8217;t afford to buy a new house so my kids can get into a better Kindergarten, does that make me a bad father?</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah T</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1391155</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 19:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1391155</guid>
		<description> or Canada.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> or Canada.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: C W</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1391057</link>
		<dc:creator>C W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 18:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1391057</guid>
		<description>You forgot to put &quot;the 5-year old on the superhighway to the university of choice&quot; in quotes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You forgot to put &#8220;the 5-year old on the superhighway to the university of choice&#8221; in quotes.</p>
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		<title>By: michael b</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1391058</link>
		<dc:creator>michael b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 18:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1391058</guid>
		<description>What a silly life we create.  The best education I ever had came from reading books, not from a teacher, not from a school, and not from a lesson plan.  Of course these people are buying into the idea (and rightly so) that upward mobility can largely depend on the contacts you have and the circles you exist in.  The library down on the corner will give you all the information you could ever need, but most of the time, it won&#039;t get you into the global country-club for the movers and shakers.  For that you need contacts and provenance.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a silly life we create.  The best education I ever had came from reading books, not from a teacher, not from a school, and not from a lesson plan.  Of course these people are buying into the idea (and rightly so) that upward mobility can largely depend on the contacts you have and the circles you exist in.  The library down on the corner will give you all the information you could ever need, but most of the time, it won&#8217;t get you into the global country-club for the movers and shakers.  For that you need contacts and provenance.  </p>
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		<title>By: doggo</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1391053</link>
		<dc:creator>doggo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 18:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1391053</guid>
		<description>That you would make such a statement proves you wouldn&#039;t know a &quot;quality education&quot; if it bit you on the ass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That you would make such a statement proves you wouldn&#8217;t know a &#8220;quality education&#8221; if it bit you on the ass.</p>
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		<title>By: MollyMaguire</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1390986</link>
		<dc:creator>MollyMaguire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1390986</guid>
		<description>Because spending money is always easier than actually getting involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because spending money is always easier than actually getting involved.</p>
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		<title>By: AviSolomon</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1390976</link>
		<dc:creator>AviSolomon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 17:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1390976</guid>
		<description>Jim, so it&#039;s Catch 22? A parent&#039;s willingness to cough up private school tuition potentially indicates a higher valuation of education by the parent and a modicum of chance of there being an atmosphere conducive to learning for the child at that home.
What could be a way to hack this to skip the tuition part? A network of smart parents and a 40GB Khan Academy torrent?
http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/6776882/Khan_Academy_-_khanacademy_-_COMPLETE_-_2011-10-27
But again, kids of parents smart enough to do that probably don&#039;t need school that much!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, so it&#8217;s Catch 22? A parent&#8217;s willingness to cough up private school tuition potentially indicates a higher valuation of education by the parent and a modicum of chance of there being an atmosphere conducive to learning for the child at that home.<br />
What could be a way to hack this to skip the tuition part? A network of smart parents and a 40GB Khan Academy torrent?<br />
<a href="http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/6776882/Khan_Academy_-_khanacademy_-_COMPLETE_-_2011-10-27" rel="nofollow">http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/6776882/Khan_Academy_-_khanacademy_-_COMPLETE_-_2011-10-27</a><br />
But again, kids of parents smart enough to do that probably don&#8217;t need school that much!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: machinestate</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1390969</link>
		<dc:creator>machinestate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 17:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1390969</guid>
		<description>My public school experience was certainly not a safe environment, but I did manage to transfer to the most-celebrated public high school in the city, with over a dozen AP classes on offer to jr&#039;s/sr&#039;s
 The gang-bangers in that school looked up to me, despite being a straight-edger, goody-two-shoes, etc.  People notice when you take hours of your own time to mentor a fellow student to make sure they &quot;get&quot; the material, just because you get off on helping others.

Bottle up all the caring, intelligent kids into private schools, and of course the public system will go into a death spiral.  When there&#039;s nobody left in a public school except thugs, thuggery is going to become most students&#039; career goals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My public school experience was certainly not a safe environment, but I did manage to transfer to the most-celebrated public high school in the city, with over a dozen AP classes on offer to jr&#8217;s/sr&#8217;s<br />
 The gang-bangers in that school looked up to me, despite being a straight-edger, goody-two-shoes, etc.  People notice when you take hours of your own time to mentor a fellow student to make sure they &#8220;get&#8221; the material, just because you get off on helping others.</p>
<p>Bottle up all the caring, intelligent kids into private schools, and of course the public system will go into a death spiral.  When there&#8217;s nobody left in a public school except thugs, thuggery is going to become most students&#8217; career goals.</p>
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		<title>By: Kludgegrrl</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1390962</link>
		<dc:creator>Kludgegrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 17:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1390962</guid>
		<description>While there is a vast amount wrong with public education in the US, and I do not doubt that getting into a good private school can give children a competitive advantage down the road (ie, when trying to get into a competitive high school or later university) , anyone going into this kind of debt for kindergarten is a fool.  Period.  

They are the kind of person who &lt;b&gt;has&lt;/b&gt; to own the latest [insert posh brand here] car, even if s/he can&#039;t pay for it.  It is a misguided status thing.  There are a lot of ways one can provide a higher quality education (moving to a better district, hiring a tutor, being a tutor...).  Going profoundly into debt into debt in the belief that a private kindergarten and grade school will make the difference is just stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While there is a vast amount wrong with public education in the US, and I do not doubt that getting into a good private school can give children a competitive advantage down the road (ie, when trying to get into a competitive high school or later university) , anyone going into this kind of debt for kindergarten is a fool.  Period.  </p>
<p>They are the kind of person who <b>has</b> to own the latest [insert posh brand here] car, even if s/he can&#8217;t pay for it.  It is a misguided status thing.  There are a lot of ways one can provide a higher quality education (moving to a better district, hiring a tutor, being a tutor&#8230;).  Going profoundly into debt into debt in the belief that a private kindergarten and grade school will make the difference is just stupid.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kludgegrrl</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1390942</link>
		<dc:creator>Kludgegrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 17:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1390942</guid>
		<description>What a silly statement.  Magnet schools in the US (such as &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuyvesant_High_School&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Stuyvesant&lt;/a&gt; or Bronx science) are among the best schools in the country.  The problem is not that there is &lt;i&gt;no&lt;/i&gt; good public education but that so much is lousy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a silly statement.  Magnet schools in the US (such as <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuyvesant_High_School" rel="nofollow">Stuyvesant</a> or Bronx science) are among the best schools in the country.  The problem is not that there is <i>no</i> good public education but that so much is lousy.</p>
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		<title>By: TimRowledge</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1390915</link>
		<dc:creator>TimRowledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 17:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1390915</guid>
		<description>Really? Seems you probably don&#039;t meet many people from Europe then.
I went to public schools all the way from 5y.o. through several degrees. All paid from public purse, including maintenance grants during the degrees. That is to say I got paid like a job to go to college. Several times. As a result I&#039;ve made more money and thus paid more taxes, which would have benefitted later students if only governments across the west hadn&#039;t decided that educated people are too much trouble. A few years after my time at university the never-to-be-suffiently-damned UK govt. went down the path of student loans and huge fees and privatise everything that they can lay their hands upon.

NB; &#039;public schools&#039; is used counter-intuitively in the UK where it means a privately owned and run school that usually costs a not-so-small fortune to send the child. In deference to the audience I did not use &#039;public&#039; in that manner above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really? Seems you probably don&#8217;t meet many people from Europe then.<br />
I went to public schools all the way from 5y.o. through several degrees. All paid from public purse, including maintenance grants during the degrees. That is to say I got paid like a job to go to college. Several times. As a result I&#8217;ve made more money and thus paid more taxes, which would have benefitted later students if only governments across the west hadn&#8217;t decided that educated people are too much trouble. A few years after my time at university the never-to-be-suffiently-damned UK govt. went down the path of student loans and huge fees and privatise everything that they can lay their hands upon.</p>
<p>NB; &#8216;public schools&#8217; is used counter-intuitively in the UK where it means a privately owned and run school that usually costs a not-so-small fortune to send the child. In deference to the audience I did not use &#8216;public&#8217; in that manner above.</p>
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		<title>By: BrianOman</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1390912</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianOman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 17:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1390912</guid>
		<description> I think the perversion of education comes from business executives running schools. 
1) Universities are run by boards who are made up of admins with business and admin degrees. Therefor, the universities run themselves as businesses. If you succeed in university, it is by bending to the structure of business.
2) School boards are run by admins who have graduated from said businesses... er, universities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> I think the perversion of education comes from business executives running schools.<br />
1) Universities are run by boards who are made up of admins with business and admin degrees. Therefor, the universities run themselves as businesses. If you succeed in university, it is by bending to the structure of business.<br />
2) School boards are run by admins who have graduated from said businesses&#8230; er, universities.</p>
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		<title>By: doggo</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1390889</link>
		<dc:creator>doggo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 16:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1390889</guid>
		<description>This whole thing is sad. Most of my education was in public schools in California &amp; Illinois (Oakland, CA, &amp; Chicago, IL). I went to college (Antioch College, Yellow Springs, OH). I&#039;m doing okay, but I&#039;m from a working-class/poor background, so not going to jail, and not working in a factory (which I&#039;ve done), or having a McJob is doing okay for me.

But I see it all the time, suburbanites, and middle-class college grads move into the city while they&#039;re in their 20s, patronize all the local 20-something watering holes, get good paying jobs, gentrify the working-class neighborhoods and drive up property &amp; rentals costs.

Then they have kids and abandon the city.

They treat the city like Disneyland for frat boys, then when things get real, they bail back to their &quot;safe&quot; suburbs. This isn&#039;t even about the 1%.

God forbid poor little Dylan should be exposed to inner-city kids (that&#039;s code, y&#039;know). God forbid poor little Madison&#039;s parents should have to take an interest in their community and work to improve the public schools.

All the money poured into private schools for these pussified, entitled, little brats could go a long way towards improving public schools for everyone.

The more people buy into the whole private school chic, the more polarized U.S. society becomes. We&#039;re working on our own 21st century fascist state, crap like this just helps it on its way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole thing is sad. Most of my education was in public schools in California &amp; Illinois (Oakland, CA, &amp; Chicago, IL). I went to college (Antioch College, Yellow Springs, OH). I&#8217;m doing okay, but I&#8217;m from a working-class/poor background, so not going to jail, and not working in a factory (which I&#8217;ve done), or having a McJob is doing okay for me.</p>
<p>But I see it all the time, suburbanites, and middle-class college grads move into the city while they&#8217;re in their 20s, patronize all the local 20-something watering holes, get good paying jobs, gentrify the working-class neighborhoods and drive up property &amp; rentals costs.</p>
<p>Then they have kids and abandon the city.</p>
<p>They treat the city like Disneyland for frat boys, then when things get real, they bail back to their &#8220;safe&#8221; suburbs. This isn&#8217;t even about the 1%.</p>
<p>God forbid poor little Dylan should be exposed to inner-city kids (that&#8217;s code, y&#8217;know). God forbid poor little Madison&#8217;s parents should have to take an interest in their community and work to improve the public schools.</p>
<p>All the money poured into private schools for these pussified, entitled, little brats could go a long way towards improving public schools for everyone.</p>
<p>The more people buy into the whole private school chic, the more polarized U.S. society becomes. We&#8217;re working on our own 21st century fascist state, crap like this just helps it on its way.</p>
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		<title>By: taintofevil</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1390883</link>
		<dc:creator>taintofevil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 16:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1390883</guid>
		<description>@taugust:disqus This was in response to &quot;move to the suburbs, pay for private school, the only drawback potentially is the commute.&quot;
That said, yes and no.  They have school buses to the school you&#039;re zoned for.  If your child&#039;s attending a magnet school or other school of your choice transportation is up to you.  Private schools generally do not bus.In Texas and maybe elsewhere (this was in a NYT article recently), bus service is being cut to make up for $5.4 bn funding cuts.  In one area, no buses for kinds within two miles of school, in another parents are charged for busing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@taugust:disqus This was in response to &#8220;move to the suburbs, pay for private school, the only drawback potentially is the commute.&#8221;<br />
That said, yes and no.  They have school buses to the school you&#8217;re zoned for.  If your child&#8217;s attending a magnet school or other school of your choice transportation is up to you.  Private schools generally do not bus.In Texas and maybe elsewhere (this was in a NYT article recently), bus service is being cut to make up for $5.4 bn funding cuts.  In one area, no buses for kinds within two miles of school, in another parents are charged for busing.</p>
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		<title>By: taugust</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1390866</link>
		<dc:creator>taugust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 16:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1390866</guid>
		<description>Do they not have school buses in America? 
No, seriously. Was that cut?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do they not have school buses in America? <br />
No, seriously. Was that cut?</p>
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		<title>By: Ultan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1390847</link>
		<dc:creator>Ultan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 15:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1390847</guid>
		<description>I attended many different schools in several different states, both public and private as my family moved around. There often isn&#039;t much difference in the quality of education, and rarely enough to justify the cost. One school I attended that cost less than $10,000 per year in the late &#039;80s now costs over $40,000 per year - and claims to spend over $70,000 per student per year. It has fantastic facilities, but the only real advantage over the public high school I attended in one of the poorest counties in Texas is the small class size. The Texas school actually had more choice of classes in science.

The ultimate in small class sizes is home-schooling. One can buy a lot of personal tutoring as well as science and other gear for what a single year in a top private school costs. Ultimately what a student learns in any setting is determined by the student&#039;s own reading, thinking and doing, and home-schooling gives much more focus on that than even the most expensive regular schools.

Among colleges, too, I have found that the main determinant of quality is small classes. A good community college class is better than the average Ivy League lecture.

The real problem is that the system and the culture which produced it do not actually care about education, knowledge or individual thinking - its really all about the brand name, the credential, the certificate of conformity. I hope we can get beyond that shallow, faulty way of rating people, and find better, more nuanced and inclusive measures. Until then the system will continue to be warped by perverse incentives. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I attended many different schools in several different states, both public and private as my family moved around. There often isn&#8217;t much difference in the quality of education, and rarely enough to justify the cost. One school I attended that cost less than $10,000 per year in the late &#8217;80s now costs over $40,000 per year &#8211; and claims to spend over $70,000 per student per year. It has fantastic facilities, but the only real advantage over the public high school I attended in one of the poorest counties in Texas is the small class size. The Texas school actually had more choice of classes in science.</p>
<p>The ultimate in small class sizes is home-schooling. One can buy a lot of personal tutoring as well as science and other gear for what a single year in a top private school costs. Ultimately what a student learns in any setting is determined by the student&#8217;s own reading, thinking and doing, and home-schooling gives much more focus on that than even the most expensive regular schools.</p>
<p>Among colleges, too, I have found that the main determinant of quality is small classes. A good community college class is better than the average Ivy League lecture.</p>
<p>The real problem is that the system and the culture which produced it do not actually care about education, knowledge or individual thinking &#8211; its really all about the brand name, the credential, the certificate of conformity. I hope we can get beyond that shallow, faulty way of rating people, and find better, more nuanced and inclusive measures. Until then the system will continue to be warped by perverse incentives. </p>
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		<title>By: taintofevil</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1390840</link>
		<dc:creator>taintofevil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 15:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1390840</guid>
		<description>The nasty secret that school reformers don&#039;t want you to know is that it really is possible to get a decent education in public schools.  It is more difficult the farther down the income ladder you are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The nasty secret that school reformers don&#8217;t want you to know is that it really is possible to get a decent education in public schools.  It is more difficult the farther down the income ladder you are.</p>
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		<title>By: taintofevil</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1390838</link>
		<dc:creator>taintofevil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 15:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1390838</guid>
		<description>This only makes sense if you&#039;re still in boarding school and spend your holidays on the family&#039;s private island.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This only makes sense if you&#8217;re still in boarding school and spend your holidays on the family&#8217;s private island.</p>
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		<title>By: taintofevil</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1390834</link>
		<dc:creator>taintofevil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 15:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1390834</guid>
		<description>You didn&#039;t mention the school commute.  You have to find a good school on your commute for this to work without adding significantly to your commute time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You didn&#8217;t mention the school commute.  You have to find a good school on your commute for this to work without adding significantly to your commute time.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1390822</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 15:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1390822</guid>
		<description>Avi,  

We tried that for 6 years.  The problem is with the paradigm.  The parents want to believe that changing the school (teachers, resources, administration, etc...) will fix the problem but the problem, as I understood it, was the prevalent culture among the students (it&#039;s not cool to be smart).  

And to fix that, one has to alter parenting.  Good luck with that.  I can&#039;t see any approach that seems likely to succeed except segregating kids by parents&#039; value of education.  And the way I could think of to accomplish this was to enroll my kids in a secular, expensive, prep-school.  So far, it&#039;s worked out well.  There&#039;s all kinds of diversity of skin color, eye color and hair color, but all the parents care enough about education to make a serious and sustained effort.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Avi,  </p>
<p>We tried that for 6 years.  The problem is with the paradigm.  The parents want to believe that changing the school (teachers, resources, administration, etc&#8230;) will fix the problem but the problem, as I understood it, was the prevalent culture among the students (it&#8217;s not cool to be smart).  </p>
<p>And to fix that, one has to alter parenting.  Good luck with that.  I can&#8217;t see any approach that seems likely to succeed except segregating kids by parents&#8217; value of education.  And the way I could think of to accomplish this was to enroll my kids in a secular, expensive, prep-school.  So far, it&#8217;s worked out well.  There&#8217;s all kinds of diversity of skin color, eye color and hair color, but all the parents care enough about education to make a serious and sustained effort.</p>
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		<title>By: IronEdithKidd</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/04/08/american-parents-take-out-stud.html#comment-1390786</link>
		<dc:creator>IronEdithKidd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 14:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=153591#comment-1390786</guid>
		<description>Lake Trust Credit Union?  There&#039;s a branch right down the street.  Why would Michigan parents be seeking tuition for their young kids?  Oh yeah, the Govinerd and the rest of the Republican&#039;ts in Lansing have spent the last two years defunding public schools.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lake Trust Credit Union?  There&#8217;s a branch right down the street.  Why would Michigan parents be seeking tuition for their young kids?  Oh yeah, the Govinerd and the rest of the Republican&#8217;ts in Lansing have spent the last two years defunding public schools.   </p>
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