TOM THE DANCING BUG: Medical Marijuana - Gateway Drug!

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• [Samuel Valentine]

  Did anyone else read that as “Tweatment Twist”?

• [dave]

  Marijuana is indeed a gateway drug for many into something much worse – tobacco.

  • [memoid]

    Very true, happened to many people I know!

  • [Bearpaw01]

    You know what else is a gateway drug? Water!

    They did a study of heroin users, and they *all* used water before they started using heroin. 100%!

    Coincidence? I don’t think so!

    • [blissfulight]

      Good thing we have the WEA (Water Enforcement Agency) and Barack ‘No Water’ Obama on the case.  Not only have they moved sparkling, flavored, and municipal tap water to a Schedule 1, they’re also working hard to bust the pipeline of sweet, cool, water flooding over our borders, targeting irrigators, farmers, bottled water suppliers, and even corner bodegas–basically anyone who’s using or supplying the users.  It’s madness!  And it needs to stop!  

      • [Jellodyne]

        I don’t know if you’ve tried to smuggle water onto an airplane in the last 10 years or so, but let me tell you, those brave men and women of the TSA are doing a heck of a job strangling this watery menace.

        • [blissfulight]

          Yeah.  I’m a smuggler.  An outlaw.  Living on the edge with my clear blue bottled water that I completely forgot about, visible through the mesh holder on the outside of my bag, and that apparently the TSA didn’t ‘see’ because they were too busy looking at boobs.

        • [blissfulight]

          Did I say boobs?  I meant looking for bombs.  

  • [Sebastian Spinczyk]

     Oh yes, indeed. Happened to me :(

• [EvilTerran]

  “chronic tonic”

  I like that turn of phrase. I might use it myself.

• [durfsmurf]

  I like how every time someone is supposed to be “riff-raff” on TtDB they call people “homes”

  • [rastronomicals]

    I’d always thought I was hearing “Holmes,” as in Sherlock . . . .

    • [Antinous / Moderator]

      Since it seems to be derived from homie, it’s totes homes.

      • [Matthew Harris]

        “Homes” is probably “correct” etymologically speaking, but it is also spelt “Holmes” because that’s how it sounds in an Iberian-American accent and also nobody give a fuck what we spellin’, holmes.

    • [rydz]

       So glad I’m not the only one who was getting that wrong most of my life…

      • [Kimmo]

        Elementary, my dear Watson.

• [Cowicide]

  Thank you, Ruben.

• [Glenn Fleishman]

  Zofran was my god for six months. How terrible that a legally available drug could alleviate my nausea, along with seven other drugs to combat pain and discomfort during chemotherapy and radiation! But no pot. Damn it.

  • [UnholyMoses]

     Is currently taking Zofran 3-4 times a day, but it’s not working as well as I’d like … which is why I’ve tried non-medical marijuana with some success. Tho not as much as I’d like (gastroparesis only has one drug to treat it effectively, but has nasty, nasty side effects such as tremor and facial ticks that never go away; meanwhile, the side effects of pot = hunger, laughter, and naps).

• [Snertly]

  What makes marijuana a gateway drug? 

  The Federal Government, by way of the Controlled Substances Act and its classification schedules says marijuana is more harmful than cocaine, morphine, PCP, LSD, crystal meth, or any prescription medication.   Obviously, this means if you can survive inhaling marijuana smoke, you must be some kind of chemical superman able to take any drug with no harmful effects. 

  This completely ignores the fact that marijuana is not physically addictive, while the other examples listed above are all highly addictive, but our government says crystal meth and crack cocaine are both safer than marijuana. 

  Who ya gonna trust?

  • [fivetonsflax]

    LSD is not addictive.

    • [Andy Simmons]

       However, LSD *is* the leading cause of people adding “man, you haven’t (x) until you’ve (x) on acid” to their most frequently-used turns of phrase.

      • [jerwin]

        Man, you haven’t really looked at your hands, until you’ve looked at your hands on acid.

        • [redesigned]

           yeah, but how do you know that the color of the hands you see are the same color of the hands that everyone else sees?

    • [Snertly]

      You might be technically correct, but you’ve missed the point.

  • [dioptase]

     Pot in of itself isn’t a gateway.  Not a whole lot wrong with it.  But I’ve got some personal experience with a family member who started with pot and is now a meth addict (hi Dad, if you’re reading).  It’s more of a social gateway.

    It can lead to more drug use in two ways.  Wondering what else is a fun drug and hanging out with people that use more than pot.  Some folks know to stop at pot, some don’t know anyone with anything but pot (don’t have easy access).  But combine curiosity with access, and you’re going to get some percentage of people that get in over their heads.

    At least that’s how it happened for Dad.  Using only pot, no problems.  Now a miserable creature.  So I’ve seen both ends of the argument (pot is safe vs pot is dangerous).  Both appear true.

    • [Snertly]

      Just as easy and as true to say water is dangerous if used improperly or consumed excessively.

      Also true to say saliva is a gateway substance for all kinds of abuse. When did you first consume Substance Z? Had you consumed saliva before that experience? Therefore saliva is responsible for your problem with Substance Z.

      Sorry about your dad, but you really haven’t described a causal relationship between his use of marijuana and anything else. Trade the word soup for the word pot in your message. Is it any less or any more factual now?

      If you’re going to blame marijuana as a gateway drug, you might as well blame mother’s milk or oxygen.

      • [dioptase]

        I never said pot was dangerous if used improperly or consumed excessively.  Odd that you would make an analogy suggesting it could be.  I’m not aware it could be.   Interesting.

        However, I thought the causal link to his meth use was fairly obvious.  So here goes.  Dad thought pot was fun.  He had friends (from buying/selling/growing pot) that had tried other stuff and had it available.  He tried other stuff out of curiosity.  Coke, meth, etc.  He’s currently hooked on meth.  (substituting “soup” would probably not have resulted in the same addiction to meth)

        Pot didn’t directly trigger his meth addiction.  It did trigger curiosity and association with people that provided him with access to other drugs.   You asked what makes it a gateway drug.  I gave potential reasoning based on personal observation of an example.  You can debate the size of the gate.  But it exists.

        • [teapot]

          I too am sorry to hear about your father’s struggle but your comment does contain a major error. The one that sticks out is this: It did trigger curiosity. Pot does not and can not trigger curiosity. People are either curious or not. A person who is not curious will not be made curious by consuming pot.

          What it can do, which you alluded to, is make you hang with people who don’t make the best life choices. The reason this is the case is because of the legal status of marijuana. If it were not illegal, people would not have to break the law or deal with people who break the law in order to smoke. You are right on the money when it comes to part of the problem being the people who provide access, and the way to stop that is by providing legal access to a substance that has been the victim of almost 100 years of misleading and unsubstantiated propaganda.

          Additionally, as this page points out, the gateway theory only existed since the 60′s (if it were fact you would’ve seen more discussion of it earlier) and it was “refuted by events in the eighties, when cocaine abuse exploded at the same time marijuana use declined”. There is not any evidence I’m aware of that proves the validity of the gateway drug theory.

          Anecdotal evidence is not very valuable or reliable because humans are not good at avoiding confirmation bias. I’ll see your ‘marijuana as a gateway drug’ anecdote and raise you a ‘marijuana is not a gateway drug’ anecdote. Despite the fact that I have probably smoked more than every commenter in this thread combined, I do not have any dependencies, nor have I ever tried meth. Why? Just take a look at meth heads… who the hell would wanna end up there? Anyone thinking they are stronger than certain chemical dependencies is deluding themselves. As stated here “Meth is a drug that lab rats will take instead of eating food, and they will die of starvation when food is right under their nose.” I’ll pop e, take acid or shrooms and then go back to work the next day like nothing happened. I’ll go months without taking anything – without any withdrawal symptoms. I’ve taken cocaine a handful of times… I get why people take it but I’ve also seen what douche bags it makes people into – and I don’t wanna be that douche bag. Despite being a heavy weed consumer with access to whatever and friends who take it, I don’t. How does that fit with your conviction that weed is a definite gateway drug? This is the logical fallacy you are falling victim to: http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause

          All the best for your dad.. I truly hope everything ends up OK.

    • [Jellodyne]

      You grow up hearing that all drugs are bad and dangerous and will ruin your life. Except that pot is no more dangerous than beer, and it is in fact a viable medicine, so you wonder what else you have been deceived about. Maybe that meth isn’t as dangerous as they make it seem — maybe heroin is alright too. If you demonize marijuana and tar it with the same brush as legitimately dangerous drugs, you’re part of the reason its a gateway drug. If make pot available at the liquor store instead of at drug dealers and don’t include it with your ‘drugs are bad, mkay’ messages, theres no reason for it to be a gateway to hard drugs than beer or booze.

• [Teller]

  Proponents of MM always refer to it as a palliative for cancer sufferers, which, thankfully, it is. But reports indicate that less than 5% of MM card holders suffer from cancer.

  • [Ipo]

     They mention the cancer because it’s the worst case scenario. 
    It helps with fibromyalgia I can assure you. 

    • [Teller]

      Good to know that.

    • [millie fink]

      Insomnia too.

    • [lishevita]

      And trigeminal neuralgia 

    • [redesigned]

       totally cures boredom.  cures ambition too.

  • [Andy Simmons]

    So, wait.  Is that

    “less than 5% of MM card holders actually have cancer”

     – or –

    “of the MM card holders that have cancer, less than 5% of them would still describe their physical hardship as “suffering”.”

    Because both of those qualify as valid interpretations of your statement.

    • [dioptase]

       have cancer AND suffer would be my interpretation.  Venn it.

  • [Xeni Jardin]

    [raises hand]

    • [Teller]

      [Teller high-fives it]

  • [rydz]

     I am curious: are you meaning to imply that if large numbers of people enroll in a medical treatment program for spurious reasons, we should then eliminate that program so that it is also unavailable for those who benefit profoundly from it?  Or am I reading too much into your comment? :)

    • [Teller]

      No.
      Yes.

  • [PeaceLove]

    The number of patients with cancer is an interesting statistic, nothing more. Cannabis can be safe and effective treatment for literally hundreds of conditions, from chronic pain and loss of appetite to depression, anxiety, ADHD and PTSD. Most of the young, “healthy” patients I know medicate for one or more psychiatric conditions with cannabis. Many of them are survivors of a pharmaceutical upbringing. You can’t tell from looking at a person what’s going on inside their minds or bodies.

    The effectiveness of cannabis for both pain and PTSD has led the VA (a Federal agency) to allow veterans to use cannabis (even though Federal law precludes it).  
    https://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/24/health/policy/24veterans.html?pagewanted=allMore info on the medicinal uses of cannabis can be found here:http://www.medicalcannabis.com/ PLUS: “Gateway drug” pseudoscience has been soundly debunked: http://scienceblog.com/12116/study-says-marijuana-no-gateway-drug/

    • [DooBie]

      I have lots of friends who “self medicate” their AD/HD with Marijuana illegally, and I seriously doubt its usefulness as a treatment for AD/HD.
      I have AD/HD as well, (full disclosure, I have taken time-release methylphenidate as treatment for it for ten years) and know for a fact that when I take my prescribed and regularly managed methylphenidate I have a clear head, and a focused mind.
      I have yet to read any real research regarding Marijuana’s effectiveness at treating AD/HD, but I suspect that any behavioral benefit it can provide will be far outweighed by it’s definite negative impact on psychological development during prolonged regular use.

      I of course recognize that all drugs have side effects, but for the age range and symptom profile for AD/HD I conjecture that stimulants or dopamine reuptake inhibitors like Straterra are more effective, and allow for more precise treatment of symptoms than marijuana.

      • [PeaceLove]

        You will not soon read any research on the efficacy of cannabis for treating ADHD for the simple reason that almost all cannabis research unrelated to “drug abuse” has been systematically suppressed by our government for decades. Even when researchers manage to get through the labyrinthine approval process, NIDA (which controls the supply of legal cannabis) refuses to supply it. The few studies that have been allowed have related to chronic pain or other physical ailments.

        The psychiatric meds you cite all have VERY nasty side effects. A good friend was medicated for years on every type of speed-based ADHD med. He broke 9 bones as a teenager (brittle bones being a side effect of speed). When he began using cannabis (which also eliminated his chronic migraines) and dropped all the pharmaceuticals, his GPA jumped 2 points and his life improved dramatically.

        I understand that anecdotes are not scientific data but they’re all we have for the moment. Thousands and thousands and THOUSANDS of anecdotes. And a safety profile over a millennia that no pharmaceutical can ever hope to match.

        Psych meds are a $100 BILLION business. Natural cannabis = free & unpatentable. 

        Always follow the money.

  • [SteveKiwi]

    “less than 5% of MM card holders suffer from cancer.”

    So medical marijuana cures 95% of cancers?

    • [Teller]

      That would be wonderful.

• [usonia]

  I was born, which lead to me using children’s Tylenol at a very early age (my first dose was at 4 or 5).
  Birth is a gateway drug.

  • [Houston Lang]

    Life is the most deadly sexually transmitted disease — 100% of those infected will die, and many will pass it on to others.

• [jerwin]

  But Marijuana is a gateway drug. It teaches you that the DEA is full of it, and conceivably, that other drugs need to be judged on their merits (or lack thereof), and not necessarily on the basis of anti-drug propaganda.

  • [ocker3]

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HarmCausedByDrugsTable.svg

• [Layne]

  No, no – this is way out of date! Just yesterday, according to the federal flacks and the Center for American Progress, he’s already ended the “War on Drugs”…

  http://www.americanprogress.org/events/2012/05/drugs.html

  • [D Wyatt]

    I swear somebody is listening to the rants I write, maybe if the informed keep talking things will actually change.

    So I watched the entire video and this is the gist of it.
    They gently admit the “war on drugs” is a failure and that they could “never arrest their way out of it.”  Then he makes it known that he DOES NOT AGREE WITH LEGALIZING MARIJUANA, and then cites how PILLS KILL 15,000 PEOPLE A YEAR!!?  Nice association jerk off.  Yeah whenever I ponder the legalities of taxing/regulating/controlling WEED, I always go back the thinking about how GOVERNMENT SPONSORED PILLS KILL 15,000 PEOPLE A YEAR because that relates somehow.  (Currently the #1 killer of children=PILLS)
    The “War on Drugs” is finally over, *(Really a War on Citizens).   Now its time to begin the “WAR ON LIES” that will never end.

    Basically it seemed to be their way of pretending the “war is over” while asserting that “all drugs are bad.”  He also shed the blame by sayin that “its the states” not “the fed” that are arresting people most of the time.  I seem to remember a certain Federal agency raiding the tax paying businesses, caregivers, and patients…

    BUT WHAT REALLY PISSED ME OFF
    Was when he tried to warp public opinion about whether or not California’s voters got what they thought they would from voting in medical marijuana.  As in, by voting in MM they did not get:  Lower crime rates, Less waste of legal/court/police resources, and profit from taxation.  All of the things that actually did happen.  So he is a lying web spinner to say the least.  No of course crime didnt disappear, but they surely caught an extra thief or murderer while not harassing a weed smoker, they surely wasted less resources police/state/judge/legal/prisons/etc, and the very first year of MM the taxes raked in passed their #1 exported crop at 12 million if I remember right.

    Just more of the same.    The end to the “WAR ON DRUGS” should be front page news, and on every media outlet, BUT YOU WOULDNT WANT YOUR MISTAKES PARADED AROUND IN FRONT OF YOU EITHER.  I suppose the government has a really bad ability to publicly admit defeat.   AKA The rightful citizens have WON THE WAR ON DRUGS because WE HAVENT GIVEN UP IN THE LEAST…….

    In my opinion if its a plant that can be a salad, it cannot be a controlled drug.(weed)  But processed drugs like cocaine, heroin, and chemicals like lsd should have some form of control/regulation of course as they can lead to dangerous people.

    Now everyone go to a secluded location and BE JOHNNY APPLEWEED!!!**********

      Stop killing the baby seeds, stop hiding them or throwing them in the TRASH.   Plant every seed you see all across the world. Just poke a stick or stem 1″ down and then piss on it and walk away. Time to OVERGROW THE GOVERNMENT FOR REAL.  Let them remember who is truly in charge, the masses.

• [Phlip]

  Breaking News: Congress won’t let Obama stimulate the economy through LEGITIMATE channels, but they sure are UNAMERICAN if they get between him and my favorite dispensary! ( RIP )-; 

  (For 325k new private sector jobs a month you’d think the progressives would be more understanding…)

• [Dingos]

  If marijuana is a schedule 1 narcotic why is there a patent for synthetic THC?   Here: link
  Just read the abstract.

  • [dioptase]

    Rule 1 with patents: don’t bother with the abstract.  The patent is for “1. A method of treating diseases caused by oxidative stress, comprising administering a therapeutically effective amount of a cannabinoid that has substantially no binding to the NMDA receptor to a subject who has a disease caused by oxidative stress.”   Note: this is a method patent, so does not patent any chemical or substance.

    A quick read of the specification also indicates this is something other than THC.  They say using their chemical is better than using THC.

    • [Dingos]

       Sorry… I wrote that down quickly as I was on my way out the door.  The point is that a schedule 1 drug, by definition, has no legitimate medical use.  The fact that there’s a patent on synthetic THC and that the aforementioned abstract CLEARLY shows a legitimate medical use for cannabinoids pretty much torpedoes any argument that Cannabis has no bona fide  medical use.  As the lawyers might say…  “Res Ipsa Loquitur”.  And of course they say their drug is better than THC.  You don’t sell drugs by saying something you can grow in a flower pot out back works much better.

      • [dioptase]

        Your argument might be valid, but this patent says THC is not usefu.  And it’s not a patent for synthetic THC.  Some alkaloids have medical use, but that doesn’t mean by extension all have bona fide medical use.  Ones similar to medical varieties have similar properties, but have effects that make them unsuitable for medical use.  Same applies to cannabanoids.  Showing that one chemical in a family has medical use does not prove another in the same family has use.  Each must stand alone.

        Please understand I’m not arguing that there isn’t a medical use for THC.  Just that this patent isn’t proof.

        • [Dingos]

           Yes it is proof.  You don’t prove by example you only disprove by example.  If I can find a single instance where cannabis is useful medicinally then the argument “no cannabis is of medical value” (which, as stated, is what it means to be a schedule 1 drug) can be declared “invalid”.  That’s logic 101.  You’re just being pedantic.  I’m not arguing that every chemical in cannabis is useful.  Only that Cannabis/THC cannot properly be a schedule 1 drug if it has a legitimate medical use… which it does.  And I realize that this specific patent isn’t about THC.  If you’re bothered about this feel free to look it up.  The argument “Marijuana has no legitimate medical use” is wrong.  And I’ve posted proof to that affect.  You’re just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

          “Showing that one chemical in a family has medical use does not prove another in the same family has use.”
          Quite true.  But neither does it mean that they don’t have a use.  Antibiotics and opiates immediately come to mind.  Otherwise pharmacologists would concentrate only on 1 molecule at a time without considering the family of compounds, like cannabinoids. that they come from.  Guess what..?  They don’t do that.

        • [dioptase]

           Dingos.  Sorry for replying to myself, but oh well.

          I’ve never argued that THC or marijuana have no use.  I actually believe the opposite.  I also recognize that it has down sides.  On the balance, I support it’s medical use.  So stop bothering to try to convince me.  I’m merely stating that the patent is not proof.  Lots of other stuff is, this patent isn’t.

          You also seem to be confusing several things.  Cannabis, THC, cannabanoid.  Don’t use them interchangeably.  It doesn’t help.

          You also have the incorrect definition of a schedule 1 drug.  It’s no “currently accepted medical use.”  Not “legitimate.”  Accepted.  And who gets to define accepted?  The Feds.  Finding examples of legitimate use or someone accepting the use doesn’t change their definition.  Drugs are schedule 1 not due to logic, but because they say so.  You and I can agree it’s silly.  Finding contradictions won’t change anything.  Legislation will.

          If this is misdirected, then I’m sorry.  It appears that some dork has been posting stupid stuff under your name and signing your name to it. 

        • [teapot]

          Oooh it’s you again :)

          Ill just leave these here:
          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000403/
          http://www.rxlist.com/marinol-drug.htm

          Marinol/Dronabinol – Synthetic THC used: “to treat nausea and vomiting caused by chemotherapy in people who have already taken other medications to treat this type of nausea and vomiting without good results. Dronabinol is also used to treat loss of appetite and weight loss in people who have acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS)”

  • [Snertly]

     If marijuana is Schedule I, i.e. no known medical use, why does the US gov keep a field in Mississippi?  Can one say marijuana has no known medical use when numerous states have medical marijuana laws on the books?

    This is the kind of stupid government that makes the rest of government look stupid too.  Almost as stupid as Obama claiming to have no ability to influence marijuana’s schedule classification.

• [Xeni Jardin]

  RUBEN I ADORE YOU

• [redesigned]

  On a semi-sidenote, I like the retro halfscreen done to the colors, makes it look like an old printed comic.

  Funny how something that was originally introduced unintentionally due to technical limitation in the printing process, can live long past the correction of the original limitation and in fact become a visual expectation and nostalgia trigger.

  Just the other day I was watching a show and at the end it said “tune in next week”…when did we last “tune” a tv, or “dial” a phone, etc.  :-)

• [D Wyatt]

  They only say its a “gateway drug” to make it seem somehow a harder drug by association.  In fact its the LIES ABOUT MARIJUANA that initially cause people and children to stop believing in the people TELLING THE LIES.  Thereby supposedly making kids think, “hey, they said weed was really dangerous and it just made me happy, sleepy and giggly, maybe they lied about heroin or cocaine too”

  I have a police issued “pocket partner” handbook.  On one page it says Schedule I drugs: having no medical use, Marijuana, cocaine, lsd, etc.
  Then exactly 6 pages later under definitions it says: “Marijuana: medical uses include cancer, wasting, aids, glaucoma, etc. etc. for about 40 medical uses. 

  The only thing blObama made transparent was the lies he made to get in office, be damn sure to expect even more of the same from the hairball you all will end up electing.  He only cares about money, and more specifically walked away from and ignored a medical marijuana patient asking him very pertinent questions about arresting patients.

  Fuck this world, there has to be somewhere better.

  • [teapot]

    Re that stupid book claiming LSD has no medical uses:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_headache#Prevention
    “Melatonin has also been demonstrated to bring significant improvement in approximately half of episodic patients; psilocybin, dimethyltryptamine, LSD, and various other tryptamines have shown similar results.”

    PS: Obama is immeasurably better than the alternatives. I suspect his tune will change dramatically in his second term when he’s got nothing to lose. This is election year… he’s gotta appeal to all voters or the opposition will take him to town with his “radical” views. I too expected better from him on certain issues but you’ve gotta keep in mind what Southpark said: In politics, your choice is between a turd sandwich or a giant douche. Pick the one you prefer because you’re not going to like either of them.

    • [Ipo]

       My hope is he is waiting for his “mandate”.  

• [Ladyfingers]

  The footer of the strip needs more love.

• [Cary Rumley]

  It’s not medically useful, and its such a terrible drug. Nevermind all that though, the FDA already approved the biggest of the Pharma companies to open up grow farms in all 50 states, what’s going to happen will not be that it is forever illegal, it will only be illegal until all those farms are operational and the government can sweep in and control the largest portion of distribution. If not that, they’ll keep it illegal due to the uses of Hemp that would literally make useless the industries the government has their hands in the most, i.e., Plastics, paper, medical, textiles, clothing, fuel, and renewable energy.

• [J K]

  How about since we’re all here complaining about the stupidity of cannabis being illegal, we just take 5 minutes to write our congressional representatives, and if you’re not too winded from that maybe get involved in some small way with the legalization movement? Maybe donate to LEAP or NORML or SSDP?

  Ron Paul in 2012? Or will B.O. legalize after he’s re-elected?

• [CognitiveDissident]

  There’s a sure-fire way to stop pot from being the “gateway” drug, we need a new scapegoat.

  Prohibition 2012! No more alcohol!
  (Then only the dealers will have alcohol AND heroin/cocaine etc.)
  Who’s with me?!