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	<title>Comments on: Tolerance and understanding solve school discipline problems, zero tolerance makes them&#160;worse</title>
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		<title>By: Brooke Bouchey</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1415439</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooke Bouchey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 16:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1415439</guid>
		<description>http://vimeo.com/37975761   -  This is a video we made of our health center (that&#039;s adjacent to our school) that helps paint a better picture of our mission and the impact we are having on these kids. In no way shape or form do we feel that this is a &quot;revolutionary approach&quot; to discipline, in fact it should be the norm. As eeyore stated, we have a multitude of qualitative data from multiple sources that measure various ways in which we define success in our students. We absolutely hold our kids accountable (i.e. arrests, court action for truancy, detentions, ISS, etc.), we just make a point in looking at causation of behaviors and work to address the root causes of them. What we&#039;ve seen is that in listening to what their stresses, barriers, anger issues, etc stem from, we&#039;re better able to help that student in understanding why it is they behave the way they do, how to reduce that stress/anger, and how it can be handled in a better way down the road. As I said, this seems basic, however, it isn&#039;t the norm for most schools. We are blessed with an amazing amount of community support and have been able to provide the counselors, doctors, programs that these kids have been needing in order to find their true success. In the 5 1/2 years that I&#039;ve been there, our graduating class has gone from 7 to over 50 this year. Jim is an amazing leader and anyone that has set foot in our building can see that it is a culture of caring and accountability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://vimeo.com/37975761 " rel="nofollow">http://vimeo.com/37975761 </a>  -  This is a video we made of our health center (that&#8217;s adjacent to our school) that helps paint a better picture of our mission and the impact we are having on these kids. In no way shape or form do we feel that this is a &#8220;revolutionary approach&#8221; to discipline, in fact it should be the norm. As eeyore stated, we have a multitude of qualitative data from multiple sources that measure various ways in which we define success in our students. We absolutely hold our kids accountable (i.e. arrests, court action for truancy, detentions, ISS, etc.), we just make a point in looking at causation of behaviors and work to address the root causes of them. What we&#8217;ve seen is that in listening to what their stresses, barriers, anger issues, etc stem from, we&#8217;re better able to help that student in understanding why it is they behave the way they do, how to reduce that stress/anger, and how it can be handled in a better way down the road. As I said, this seems basic, however, it isn&#8217;t the norm for most schools. We are blessed with an amazing amount of community support and have been able to provide the counselors, doctors, programs that these kids have been needing in order to find their true success. In the 5 1/2 years that I&#8217;ve been there, our graduating class has gone from 7 to over 50 this year. Jim is an amazing leader and anyone that has set foot in our building can see that it is a culture of caring and accountability.</p>
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		<title>By: gianfrancolopesci</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1414099</link>
		<dc:creator>gianfrancolopesci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 09:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Interesting news! Also, the Earth revolves around the sun. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting news! Also, the Earth revolves around the sun. </p>
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		<title>By: greggman</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413970</link>
		<dc:creator>greggman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 06:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413970</guid>
		<description>We need to figure out how to clone your wife! Or else figure out how to make her contagious :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We need to figure out how to clone your wife! Or else figure out how to make her contagious :-)</p>
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		<title>By: eeyore</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413763</link>
		<dc:creator>eeyore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 02:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413763</guid>
		<description>To everyone criticizing the metrics and methodologies, and regression towards mean, etc. You have obviously not read the full article.  

Go. and. read. it.  ( why do I have to even say that here?! )

The cited statistic makes a great hook, but it is NOT NOT NOT their primary datapoint, or goal, or standard, or anything else except a something to get your attention.    This program was implemented by the principle at an alternative school *after* he had been there for 1-2 years, so there is before and after data.  They measured improved grades, test performance, graduation rates, specific event instances and outcomes, student attitudes and engagement levels, and a raft of others.  There *IS* data here, and it pretty much all good news.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To everyone criticizing the metrics and methodologies, and regression towards mean, etc. You have obviously not read the full article.  </p>
<p>Go. and. read. it.  ( why do I have to even say that here?! )</p>
<p>The cited statistic makes a great hook, but it is NOT NOT NOT their primary datapoint, or goal, or standard, or anything else except a something to get your attention.    This program was implemented by the principle at an alternative school *after* he had been there for 1-2 years, so there is before and after data.  They measured improved grades, test performance, graduation rates, specific event instances and outcomes, student attitudes and engagement levels, and a raft of others.  There *IS* data here, and it pretty much all good news.  </p>
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		<title>By: willyboy</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413660</link>
		<dc:creator>willyboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 00:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413660</guid>
		<description>As a teacher, I will tell you that curbing bordom is the strongest position to decrease incidents of obstruction in the classroom. Each child is different and brings a different set of issues, especially in the inner city schools. Keep the material fresh, their bodies and minds active and you will have few problems. Be straight with your expectations and be consistent. It also helps to know and have a passion for the material you are teaching. Students will recognize this very quickly. That said, I would not be honest if I said that teachers do not get frustrated and vent in class at times. We are human after all.  I think its good for kids to understand this as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a teacher, I will tell you that curbing bordom is the strongest position to decrease incidents of obstruction in the classroom. Each child is different and brings a different set of issues, especially in the inner city schools. Keep the material fresh, their bodies and minds active and you will have few problems. Be straight with your expectations and be consistent. It also helps to know and have a passion for the material you are teaching. Students will recognize this very quickly. That said, I would not be honest if I said that teachers do not get frustrated and vent in class at times. We are human after all.  I think its good for kids to understand this as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413577</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 23:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413577</guid>
		<description>I got my only suspension for calling a teacher a B. The real punishment, however, came a year later when I had to ask to be in her AP course.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got my only suspension for calling a teacher a B. The real punishment, however, came a year later when I had to ask to be in her AP course.  </p>
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		<title>By: Nicola Collison</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413515</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicola Collison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 22:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413515</guid>
		<description>Its ARE our children learning, not is!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its ARE our children learning, not is!</p>
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		<title>By: Dr Boom</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413503</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Boom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 22:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413503</guid>
		<description>I try so hard to follow Rule #1 and I hope to get it right in 99% of cases. It&#039;s certainly a golden rule that most good teachers should follow. I&#039;m just wondering how it equates to other workforces. I can let comments like &quot;dickhead&quot; and &quot;fatass&quot; wash over me. I can cope quite easily with requests to perform certainly anatomically difficult and painful activities, although most of these would result in severe and fairly swift action against the perpetrator in any workplace outside of policing, health care and correctional services. What is it about teachers that we expect them to put up with much higher levels of abuse than would be tolerated in a &quot;normal&quot; workplace ? I&#039;m assuming that the staff at the school are happy with the approach and that appropriate surveys of their attitudes have been factored into this study as well as outcomes for the students.

I would love for this approach to be shown to be true and beneficial for all parties involved. Unfortunately I&#039;ve worked at places where administrators have decided to show how great the school is by refusing to act on serious behaviour issues (it lowers their exclusion and suspension statistics nicely). I hate zero tolerance attitudes for meaningless crap like uniform infringements, chewing gum or the use of electronic devices. I hate it even more when, as a union rep, I have represented female teachers who were told to &quot;let it ride&quot; and &quot;not take it so personally&quot; after being surrounded by a group of boys in the schoolyard and seriously sexually threatened, and other teachers who were literally hounded out of town by homophobic persecution (after being told by administrators that they should expect those sorts of attitudes in a country town).

Zero tolerance never works when it&#039;s used to justify cracking down on petty offences (the lie of &quot;if you look after the little stuff, the big stuff will sort itself out&quot;). Universal peace love and understanding for the perpetrator and making the victim feel responsible doesn&#039;t work that well when the offences are criminal ones in the real world</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I try so hard to follow Rule #1 and I hope to get it right in 99% of cases. It&#8217;s certainly a golden rule that most good teachers should follow. I&#8217;m just wondering how it equates to other workforces. I can let comments like &#8220;dickhead&#8221; and &#8220;fatass&#8221; wash over me. I can cope quite easily with requests to perform certainly anatomically difficult and painful activities, although most of these would result in severe and fairly swift action against the perpetrator in any workplace outside of policing, health care and correctional services. What is it about teachers that we expect them to put up with much higher levels of abuse than would be tolerated in a &#8220;normal&#8221; workplace ? I&#8217;m assuming that the staff at the school are happy with the approach and that appropriate surveys of their attitudes have been factored into this study as well as outcomes for the students.</p>
<p>I would love for this approach to be shown to be true and beneficial for all parties involved. Unfortunately I&#8217;ve worked at places where administrators have decided to show how great the school is by refusing to act on serious behaviour issues (it lowers their exclusion and suspension statistics nicely). I hate zero tolerance attitudes for meaningless crap like uniform infringements, chewing gum or the use of electronic devices. I hate it even more when, as a union rep, I have represented female teachers who were told to &#8220;let it ride&#8221; and &#8220;not take it so personally&#8221; after being surrounded by a group of boys in the schoolyard and seriously sexually threatened, and other teachers who were literally hounded out of town by homophobic persecution (after being told by administrators that they should expect those sorts of attitudes in a country town).</p>
<p>Zero tolerance never works when it&#8217;s used to justify cracking down on petty offences (the lie of &#8220;if you look after the little stuff, the big stuff will sort itself out&#8221;). Universal peace love and understanding for the perpetrator and making the victim feel responsible doesn&#8217;t work that well when the offences are criminal ones in the real world</p>
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		<title>By: etherist</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413459</link>
		<dc:creator>etherist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 22:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413459</guid>
		<description>Principal: &quot;I could expel you!&quot;

Emo Phillips: &quot;You&#039;ll have to catch me and eat me first, ya weirdo!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Principal: &#8220;I could expel you!&#8221;</p>
<p>Emo Phillips: &#8220;You&#8217;ll have to catch me and eat me first, ya weirdo!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: poplars</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413456</link>
		<dc:creator>poplars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 22:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413456</guid>
		<description> I&#039;d have chosen both. 

Before and after the change in policy, I&#039;d have used student surveys about self-esteem and quality of life, academic test-scores, and frequency of easily definable incidents (like swearing at a teacher). And I&#039;d also interview and do a narrative, qualitative study. 

This sounds like an excellent approach to education, it would be a shame if it were judged by this outcome measure (reduced days of suspension/expulsion) which is so prominently displayed in the article&#039;s headline.

As jrosiek comments below, this is a measure of administration/teacher behaviour, not student behaviour. It tells us that the policy was successful in getting administration/teachers to stop issuing so many suspensions/expulsions, but says nothing about the outcomes they were attempting to achieve in their student population.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> I&#8217;d have chosen both. </p>
<p>Before and after the change in policy, I&#8217;d have used student surveys about self-esteem and quality of life, academic test-scores, and frequency of easily definable incidents (like swearing at a teacher). And I&#8217;d also interview and do a narrative, qualitative study. </p>
<p>This sounds like an excellent approach to education, it would be a shame if it were judged by this outcome measure (reduced days of suspension/expulsion) which is so prominently displayed in the article&#8217;s headline.</p>
<p>As jrosiek comments below, this is a measure of administration/teacher behaviour, not student behaviour. It tells us that the policy was successful in getting administration/teachers to stop issuing so many suspensions/expulsions, but says nothing about the outcomes they were attempting to achieve in their student population.</p>
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		<title>By: Jayarava</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413307</link>
		<dc:creator>Jayarava</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 20:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413307</guid>
		<description>Rule No. 1 &amp; Rule No. 2. are words to live by. Applicable to every communication situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rule No. 1 &amp; Rule No. 2. are words to live by. Applicable to every communication situation.</p>
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		<title>By: blueelm</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413217</link>
		<dc:creator>blueelm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 19:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413217</guid>
		<description>What do you know! Heaping more problems on people with problems creates problems! Next you&#039;ll be telling me leeches don&#039;t cure cancer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you know! Heaping more problems on people with problems creates problems! Next you&#8217;ll be telling me leeches don&#8217;t cure cancer.</p>
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		<title>By: Cowicide</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413160</link>
		<dc:creator>Cowicide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 18:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413160</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Jim Sporleder tried treating traumatized, furious kids with compassion and understanding. Their behavior improved dramatically.&lt;/blockquote&gt;I wish this was an Onion article.

I hope more people learn that conservative &quot;tough love&quot; is nothing more than &quot;soft hate&quot; and you&#039;ll end up with blind rebellion or submissive drones with that foolhardy approach.

Give respect if you expect it in return.  It&#039;s pretty simple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Jim Sporleder tried treating traumatized, furious kids with compassion and understanding. Their behavior improved dramatically.</p></blockquote>
<p>I wish this was an Onion article.</p>
<p>I hope more people learn that conservative &#8220;tough love&#8221; is nothing more than &#8220;soft hate&#8221; and you&#8217;ll end up with blind rebellion or submissive drones with that foolhardy approach.</p>
<p>Give respect if you expect it in return.  It&#8217;s pretty simple.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Tyler</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413146</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 17:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413146</guid>
		<description>First Maureen Walsh, now compassionate schooling? If I hadn&#039;t been there a few dozen times, I&#039;d start to think Walla Walla was some kind of progressive fantasy land.

(Well, perhaps within the confines of Whitman College, it is. Don&#039;t cross the street, though.) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First Maureen Walsh, now compassionate schooling? If I hadn&#8217;t been there a few dozen times, I&#8217;d start to think Walla Walla was some kind of progressive fantasy land.</p>
<p>(Well, perhaps within the confines of Whitman College, it is. Don&#8217;t cross the street, though.) </p>
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		<title>By: Ben Weaver</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413147</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Weaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 17:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413147</guid>
		<description>Walla Walla Washington is the best Bugs could come up with after many abracadabras, 1 Newport news and a few mixed matches.

I&#039;m contributing nothing to this thread except the great gift of a smile to you all.

http://youtu.be/x9DsUnqL7Hg?t=5m47s</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walla Walla Washington is the best Bugs could come up with after many abracadabras, 1 Newport news and a few mixed matches.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m contributing nothing to this thread except the great gift of a smile to you all.</p>
<p><a href="http://youtu.be/x9DsUnqL7Hg?t=5m47s" rel="nofollow">http://youtu.be/x9DsUnqL7Hg?t=5m47s</a></p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413145</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 17:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413145</guid>
		<description>You can&#039;t get fooled again!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can&#8217;t get fooled again!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413139</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 17:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413139</guid>
		<description>The point wasn&#039;t the number of expulsions. The point was that the theory that getting rid of the worst students (hence increasing the number of expulsions) would naturally leave behind the better students (hence increasing achievement scores) turned out to be wrong. The effect was the &lt;i&gt;opposite&lt;/i&gt;. A &lt;i&gt;decrease&lt;/i&gt; in the number of expulsions was correlated to an increase in achievement scores.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point wasn&#8217;t the number of expulsions. The point was that the theory that getting rid of the worst students (hence increasing the number of expulsions) would naturally leave behind the better students (hence increasing achievement scores) turned out to be wrong. The effect was the <i>opposite</i>. A <i>decrease</i> in the number of expulsions was correlated to an increase in achievement scores.</p>
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		<title>By: Ambiguity</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413138</link>
		<dc:creator>Ambiguity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 17:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413138</guid>
		<description>Yes. Remember, &quot;zero tolerance&quot; and &quot;intolerance&quot; are just two different terms for the same thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes. Remember, &#8220;zero tolerance&#8221; and &#8220;intolerance&#8221; are just two different terms for the same thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Ito Kagehisa</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413127</link>
		<dc:creator>Ito Kagehisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 17:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413127</guid>
		<description>Incidentally, when zero tolerance came to town hereabouts, it wasn&#039;t long before all the best school principals quit or retired.  We&#039;re selecting for sadists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, when zero tolerance came to town hereabouts, it wasn&#8217;t long before all the best school principals quit or retired.  We&#8217;re selecting for sadists.</p>
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		<title>By: Ito Kagehisa</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413122</link>
		<dc:creator>Ito Kagehisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 17:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413122</guid>
		<description>Cory, I can&#039;t thank you enough for keeping this stuff in the limelights.

We&#039;ve got overwhelming, reproducible proof that &quot;zero tolerance&quot; policies are harmful to children and fundamentally compromise the educational process - making our kids more ignorant and less capable of controlling themselves - yet there are still people (in this very thread, no less!) who are incapable of putting aside their need to punish in favor of an educational system designed to &lt;i&gt;educate&lt;/i&gt;. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cory, I can&#8217;t thank you enough for keeping this stuff in the limelights.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve got overwhelming, reproducible proof that &#8220;zero tolerance&#8221; policies are harmful to children and fundamentally compromise the educational process &#8211; making our kids more ignorant and less capable of controlling themselves &#8211; yet there are still people (in this very thread, no less!) who are incapable of putting aside their need to punish in favor of an educational system designed to <i>educate</i>. </p>
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		<title>By: Mister44</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413110</link>
		<dc:creator>Mister44</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 17:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413110</guid>
		<description> Yes it is - for the most part - another reason it fails.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Yes it is &#8211; for the most part &#8211; another reason it fails.</p>
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		<title>By: awjt</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413106</link>
		<dc:creator>awjt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 17:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413106</guid>
		<description> Dude, LINK???  I mean, write this awesome lady up and get that stuff PUBLISHED, at least on your blog!!!  I bet BoingBoing will pick that up and post it in the blogroll...  oh and nice work, you.  You picked a good one!!  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Dude, LINK???  I mean, write this awesome lady up and get that stuff PUBLISHED, at least on your blog!!!  I bet BoingBoing will pick that up and post it in the blogroll&#8230;  oh and nice work, you.  You picked a good one!!  :)</p>
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		<title>By: ChicagoD</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413097</link>
		<dc:creator>ChicagoD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 17:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413097</guid>
		<description>It is confusing when we try to have the exact. same. rules. for children still developing responsibility and self-awareness and adults consciously ripping people off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is confusing when we try to have the exact. same. rules. for children still developing responsibility and self-awareness and adults consciously ripping people off.</p>
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		<title>By: lava</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413077</link>
		<dc:creator>lava</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 17:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413077</guid>
		<description>I tried replacing every incidence of &quot;Children&quot; in that article with &quot;Wall Street Banker&quot;. It was confusing. I&#039;m thinking now, yes, we want No Tolerance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tried replacing every incidence of &#8220;Children&#8221; in that article with &#8220;Wall Street Banker&#8221;. It was confusing. I&#8217;m thinking now, yes, we want No Tolerance.</p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413074</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 17:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413074</guid>
		<description> Morans</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Morans</p>
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		<title>By: dioptase</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413065</link>
		<dc:creator>dioptase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 16:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413065</guid>
		<description>Competent teachers make all the difference.  I&#039;d like to do a bit of bragging!

My wife is a science teacher and for many years had the odd distinction of collecting troubled kids in her classes.  Intentionally.  She had many tricks and techniques.

Getting them &quot;hooked&quot; early and on her side with fun learning
Sending them postcards praising good work
Putting them in charge
Clean slate
Having fun.  Hands on, almost no homework or assigned reading.
Plus other stuff.

She developed a reputation of getting kids to behave.  So much so that kids that trashed a classroom would be sent to hers to cool off.  Some kids wouldn&#039;t even bother to go to other classes or their assigned classes.  They&#039;d have 2,3,4 hours of science a day.  She gets letters and hugs from these same kids all the time, years later.

She even maneuvered herself into doing class scheduling for the counselors.  She made sure she had the worst performing kids (she has more fun with them, calls the other kids boring).  At one point she had double the number of special ed kids in each of two class periods than any special ed teacher ... because they are capped by law.

The result was her kids outperformed all the other kids.  On average, going up more on standardized tests than all the other kids (the equivalent of 2 years).  4 years running.

Because of that, she&#039;s been reassigned to to teach accelerated science to advanced students.  Things are great there too.  She teaches 6th, 7th, 8th graders.  She&#039;s had many students for 3 years.   She spends too much time blowing stuff up to teach to the test, but the average rate of improvement on tests is the equivalent of 3 years per year.  For 3 years.

And, she&#039;s also the mentor to several new science teachers who are using her teaching style in their classrooms.  Ever had a teacher wear a Transformers mask while teaching?  Well, it&#039;s accepted and normal now.

Her philosophy is to never be bored.  And she&#039;s pushing for accelerated science for every kid.

Thanks for letting me brag.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Competent teachers make all the difference.  I&#8217;d like to do a bit of bragging!</p>
<p>My wife is a science teacher and for many years had the odd distinction of collecting troubled kids in her classes.  Intentionally.  She had many tricks and techniques.</p>
<p>Getting them &#8220;hooked&#8221; early and on her side with fun learning<br />
Sending them postcards praising good work<br />
Putting them in charge<br />
Clean slate<br />
Having fun.  Hands on, almost no homework or assigned reading.<br />
Plus other stuff.</p>
<p>She developed a reputation of getting kids to behave.  So much so that kids that trashed a classroom would be sent to hers to cool off.  Some kids wouldn&#8217;t even bother to go to other classes or their assigned classes.  They&#8217;d have 2,3,4 hours of science a day.  She gets letters and hugs from these same kids all the time, years later.</p>
<p>She even maneuvered herself into doing class scheduling for the counselors.  She made sure she had the worst performing kids (she has more fun with them, calls the other kids boring).  At one point she had double the number of special ed kids in each of two class periods than any special ed teacher &#8230; because they are capped by law.</p>
<p>The result was her kids outperformed all the other kids.  On average, going up more on standardized tests than all the other kids (the equivalent of 2 years).  4 years running.</p>
<p>Because of that, she&#8217;s been reassigned to to teach accelerated science to advanced students.  Things are great there too.  She teaches 6th, 7th, 8th graders.  She&#8217;s had many students for 3 years.   She spends too much time blowing stuff up to teach to the test, but the average rate of improvement on tests is the equivalent of 3 years per year.  For 3 years.</p>
<p>And, she&#8217;s also the mentor to several new science teachers who are using her teaching style in their classrooms.  Ever had a teacher wear a Transformers mask while teaching?  Well, it&#8217;s accepted and normal now.</p>
<p>Her philosophy is to never be bored.  And she&#8217;s pushing for accelerated science for every kid.</p>
<p>Thanks for letting me brag.</p>
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		<title>By: digi_owl</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413045</link>
		<dc:creator>digi_owl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 16:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413045</guid>
		<description>And then we contemplate that for example the war on drugs is a zero tolerance policy...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And then we contemplate that for example the war on drugs is a zero tolerance policy&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: digi_owl</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413042</link>
		<dc:creator>digi_owl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 16:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413042</guid>
		<description> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law

Some things are inherently impossible to capture in statistics, and trying to do so will invariably lead to unintended consequences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law</p>
<p>Some things are inherently impossible to capture in statistics, and trying to do so will invariably lead to unintended consequences.</p>
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		<title>By: digi_owl</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413040</link>
		<dc:creator>digi_owl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 16:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413040</guid>
		<description>Never mind that managers often run their little &quot;fief&quot; by &quot;do as i say, not as i do&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never mind that managers often run their little &#8220;fief&#8221; by &#8220;do as i say, not as i do&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Antoine</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/tolerance-and-understanding-so.html#comment-1413036</link>
		<dc:creator>Antoine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 16:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=158271#comment-1413036</guid>
		<description>&quot;Says the NEPC report: “…research on the frequent use of school suspension has indicated that, after race and poverty are controlled for, higher rates of out-of-school suspension correlate with lower achievement scores.”&quot;

That&#039;s typically the kind of reasoning that makes me think of Freakonomics:  someone here seems to interpret a mere indication as a causality. Although they only mention correlation, the citation seems to imply causality to justify the low-suspension-rate policy...

What is the simplest explanation? That higher suspension rates cause lower achievement scores or that students that receive lots of suspensions are likely to be the one with low achievement scores in the first place, thus the correlation? To me, it seems that the high suspension rate is more an indicator of the low achievement of the suspended children than it is its cause...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Says the NEPC report: “…research on the frequent use of school suspension has indicated that, after race and poverty are controlled for, higher rates of out-of-school suspension correlate with lower achievement scores.”&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s typically the kind of reasoning that makes me think of Freakonomics:  someone here seems to interpret a mere indication as a causality. Although they only mention correlation, the citation seems to imply causality to justify the low-suspension-rate policy&#8230;</p>
<p>What is the simplest explanation? That higher suspension rates cause lower achievement scores or that students that receive lots of suspensions are likely to be the one with low achievement scores in the first place, thus the correlation? To me, it seems that the high suspension rate is more an indicator of the low achievement of the suspended children than it is its cause&#8230;</p>
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